Guild Wars 2

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why trait water when you can get damage and get all the same cleansing? It’s a two-way street.

The issue with Ele traiting is that regardless of your personal reason for traiting into Water Magic, you trait there because you NEED what the traitline gives. You may say “well, I trait water to get condition cleansing”, but you don’t actually. You trait water so you can get the same condition cleansing and run something else in your skills. This isn’t wrong to do, but saying that you need to trait there for that reason is faulty.

Vitality is why and the other options aren’t as good. Everyone hates conditions and elementalist speccing to deal with it honestly is no different then any other class.

0/10/0/30/30 is D/D set I agree with you Dramor that everyone has their own reasons for going 30 water mine personaly is because D/D is Melee fighting essentially(though not technically). I don’t expect a D/D Ele to get away with basic typical melee fighting and running 30/30/x/x/x or some variation of that. If you expect to be fighting in melee range using melee weapons you must add beef only a thief gets away with not doing that.

A glass guardian and even warrior will go down in seconds if they go full glass I expect a ele running d/d to do the same.

Anyway I see ele meta being 0/30/0/0/30/10 or 0/30/0/10/30 the first being a possible d/d or s/d and the second being S/D. People trait for heavy condition management because traiting for it means you have more options in your utilities but sometimes its just better to trait damage and blow it up before it kills you.

Also my views on healing power are go all the way or not at all. Don’t spec into healing power if you still want good damage that can kill everything. Sure with 800 healing power you can still kill a thief but what about a bunker guardian?

Verificus.4320:

Thanks for that, your google link is inaccessible though, mind rechecking?

NP I edited in another paragraph for the straight answer for elementalist and put in the direct link to gw2guru thread on toughness vs vitality.

Math

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1jau9a/an_explanation_of_basic_gw2_theorycraft/

Because healing power vs toughness vs vitality vs damage is defensive gear these should be what your looking for.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1kigzm/a_comparison_of_defensive_gear_in_build_making/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1o0coa/how_defensive_stats_helps_your_damage_output_fun/

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/60838-math-damage-reduction-toughness-and-vitality/

This has been beat to death since release.

Personal preference tends to win over math but use the math to give you good parameters.

You take the math which is more focused on more controlled environments and try to apply it to WvW the problem is human factor.

EHP is I auto attack you and you auto attack me in a more traditional MMO sense but the dodge button throws a variable into the equation that isn’t present in other MMO’s there is no RNG misses in Guild Wars 2.

It plays with a bit more strategy in player vs player combat since it become strategy of dodge baiting, vigor uptime, block access, invulnerability access, blind access etc. Better put is that you have many ways to avoid getting hit that are under your control.

In almost all of the toughness vs vitality threads for guild wars 2 (and I’ve probably looked at most them with many bookmarks not just from elementalist forums) healing is almost always thrown out. Many things can interrupted expected healing because you can’t spreadsheet what your opponent is going to do and what access he has to the above mentioned damage mitigation options and there is no way of knowing until the fight started and if you have knowledge of his capabilities.

Anyway this thread will probably rehash the same discussions that have gone on for a while about the subject and bring up some of the same math I’ve linked. This question usually does.

In the end my personal ideas on the subject are when it comes to WvW/sPvP don’t look at the math as law but a guide. The math fits more in PvE because the encounter hardly ever changes just your own group comp may. PvP build diversity among all the classes makes it impossible to spreadsheet a always win situation in a build vs build it isn’t possible in guild wars 2 to predict it that way.

Edit

If I remember correctly the straight math is build to 18.6k vitality then from there starting adding toughness and vitality point for point. In straight gear terms its soldier armor zerker trinkets. If you are using EHP as your guide in your elementalist build.

I agree with Maugetarr the reason the instant cast and RNG procs are ok in GW2 is because classes have their own self sustain. TBH I have never seen much complaining about RNG procs or instant cast abilities except Ele double arcane burst and Necromancer staff attacks.

I’ve never seen 1 complaint (until this thread) about sigil of fire or sigil of air(which is something swagg also suggested to change).

Doesn’t it search for relevancy as top priority? If I searched for “Guild War 2 Swiftness” and it returned searches about the living world I would think google was broken or another example I search for “Walmart” and got nothing back except for “Best Buy”

These aren’t articles though they are threads from forums big difference.

MonMalthias.4763:

Karl McLain has laid down the law, and its name is Cleansing Water. All hail the Triple Cantrip Ele, the once and future king of Regeneration.

Elementalist:
Cleansing Water: This trait no longer has an internal cooldown while in PvP.
Meteor Shower: Updated the skill fact to display the increased endurance regeneration while the player has the Zephyr’s Focus trait. Added a red ring to indicate area of effect for enemy players. Added a white ring for allied players.

• This change makes x/x/x/30/30 pretty much meta. Again. Certainly, Staff Elementalists will have no excuse not slotting this trait – the synergy with Healing Rain/Elemental Attunement is far too great.

• This change will further lock down build diversity now that Cleansing Wave (The trait, not the skill) is in Master tier. Cantrip Mastery/Soothing Disruption will become the “locked in” Adept and Master traits once again – especially for Staff.

• Then again, 0/10/0/30/30 triple Cantrip D/D ele will make its triumphant return come March.

• Rock Solid/Ether Renewal less necessary as a result. The revert on Signet of Restoration combined with Cleansing Water may bring it back into favour.

• Glyph Heal + Cleansing Water is also an option now.

• Overall the change is good, but I fear this will ensure that condition clear will never be added to lines other than Water magic, and x/x/x/30/30 will become further entrenched. D/D x/15/10/15/30 will probably never again see the light of day, for example.

The change to cleansing water in sPvP (since it was never nerfed in WvW/PvE) just makes it so the trait isn’t stupid.

Now with a icd on it the trait is not grandmaster worthy it’s stupid. I don’t know how much WvW you do but go roll around as a D/D Ele and you can see how the trait is. It helps but it wont save you from terrormancers lol.

The sPvP icd just makes the trait prohibitive to take because it works terribly now it is like when they take a good adept tier trait and move it up to master just because its a good adept then force you to chose between good masters now changing your build. That is all that the cleansing water trait did when they added the ICD on it.

The trait is ok in WvW is it grandmaster worthy sure but with current meta this change doesnt make it dominant or OP in sPvP. This change makes it viable now.

The current meta is conditions so thats where ele needs help. This will not make d/d cantrips dominant and killing everything with people complaining. You can play that now in WvW when was the last time you saw a post about Eles being OP in WvW or necro’s complaining that Ele’s have to much condi removal? Since cleansing water has no ICD in WvW it has had a year of testing live and I havent seen a Ele OP thread.

That is why they put the icd on it in the first place because necro’s couldn’t counter that with mist form ether renewal combos. Now you can go out in WvW with 30 water/30 arcana and see if Necro’s, or engineers still have a problem killing/condi pressuring elementalist. I know on my necro I see all Ele’s as free meals.

With the soothing wave change you could possibly go 30 water and not need to slot a cantrip since that will proc regen on you. Same with a s/d ele with trident though I don’t know why you would want 30 water with s/d but at least it’s a option.

0/30/0/30/10 S/D with soothing wave, cleansing wave, cleansing water. Regen on trident cleansing wave on dagger 5. I could see this possibly maybe piercing shards instead of cleansing wave with dragon tooth/swap to water combo for extra damage because vital striking is a hard trait to get good mileage out of except in the opener.

I think the OP has left the building lets let this nonsense thread die.

8 profession 5 roles a old /d ele with no nerfs just bug fixes wouldn’t be that bad off in todays meta and wouldn’t be seen as gimping your team if you had to slot one as a replacement class. In essence it would be viable.

I still don’t think it would be one of the number 1 choices for ideal group comp but it wouldn’t be a terrible choice either like now.

Some of the builds present now weren’t possible back then or where terrible then for other classes.

The devs wanted to bring the other classes up. The players wanted Ele nerfed They went with nerf Ele. You can look it up on the Old SOTG on gw2curse on twitch it was the 3rd SOTG that it came up from Top sPvPers and the 4th SOTG they annouced the nerfs.

I spend alot of time reading on this game and they said before they buffed warrior and people complained that they where terrible that they have to be cautious. The warrior almost shipped according to Chap somewhat similar to what it is now. They don’t want to give Necro healing in DS because they said it use to be like that and it was unkillable which is why they haven’t given necro healing in DS.

ElexOrieN.2130:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Everybody DOES want eles.

Nope warrior, guardian and mesmer are the most wanted classes in dungeons.

Go check speedclear vids, they’re all eles.

There are also speed clear videos of all the other classes, so what’s your point? Your just another deluded ele fanboy.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The ele is the straight DPS class, they hit absurdly hard but also go down very quickly.

And that is the elementalists biggest design mistake.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

As for warriors? That HB number you’re so proud of? Lava Font outdamages it.

Nope once again. Hundred blades ticks HP down faster. Also elementalists problem isn’t the damage, but that the class has no survivability. You have just like the others before you completely missed the topic.

Guanglai Kangyi has done is research on this trust me. I am not even a big PvE guy but I know who he is and he is one of the best PvE theorycrafters out there. When he said that lava font out damages 100blades he didn’t say that just because he said it because the math says so. I also don’t think he mains Ele as I seen most of his posts over in the Warrior or Guardian forums.

Yes I am on all the forums alot. Except engineer and ranger since I don’t have those classes and you can tell that people respect his research even on reddit.

On topic this thread is about the LA escape event right now. I started on my Ele and just run it on my necro now surviving isnt the problem (I’m running staff) it’s damage and you can’t really see so the necro is more tag proof then ele this is running mostly condition damage with rampager trinkets I’m am pulling in 3x more bags on my Necro because it’s easier to tag.

He mention Signet of Resortation I wonder if they boosted the sustain on it? Or perhaps as I think this would be awesome if they allowed every 6 slot heal to receive healing boosts if you use it in water. Leave the glyph the same as it does that already but allow ether, sor, and arcane brlliance to heal more if used in water. I think it fits and doesn’t sound particularly OP to me.

MonMalthias.4763:

oZii.2864:

@ MonMallthias. I’ve seen you post and you seem reasonable but your facts are indeed wrong.

S/d cantrip was meta. D/d was good in WvW that’s it.

The problem was other classes where bad.

Would the d/d cantrip bunker be op against:

Current hambow wars?
S/d or s/p thieves?
Dhuumfire necro’s’?

Those meta builds above weren’t around when ele was supposedly op. 10/30/0/0/30 thieves could have ran that build back then but it wasn’t nearly as good now. The others I mentioned weren’t viable at all back then warrior wasn’t even close to viable period. Necro’s had no dhuumfire

Not beating a dead horse but you get my point. The old cantrip ele wouldn’t even be viable in today’s meta and would possibly get a consideration if it had the old bugged 1500 range RTL.

Also cantrip =/= d/d ele.

Does decoy = pu Mesmer? Almost ever Mesmer runs decoy and blink.

It’s utilities and everyone can take them ele is no different. Every class has terrible utilities and bis ones.

I was under the impression that the reduction of damage reduction of Frost Aura from (I think it was 15%?) to the current 10% was aimed at D/D due to stacking with Protection, along with an increase of ICD to Shocking Aura. (Double Fury from Shocking Aura notwithstanding). In addition, Signet of Restoration had much better synergy with D/D pre-nerf than Scepter due to faster and better autoattacks (although the Rock Barrier/Hurl was quite strong with it as well).

That said, I didn’t play much Ele back then so I will concede that S/D Ele was meta back in the days when Elementalist was strong.

SOR did have better synergy with D/D but the problem well was really a bug fix you would get 3x procs of SOR from evasive arcana when they nerfed confusion and fixed the bug that caused you to bet hit with 3x strikes of confusion damage with SOR they also fixed the extra heals. That is what made SOR really good it is still my favorite heal but that is why it was much stronger back then.

For the Frost aura IIRC there was no 15% damage reduction on frost aura ever. It was just the chill but when they put a 1s icd on the chill they added the 10% damage reduction to it.

I honestly I would prefer the old no damage reduction but the chill with no ICD.

i have been running this trait setup but in full zerker. Everytime I go to run this hybrid I just can’t justify the condition damage over raw damage. Seeing the bleed stacks tick and then wiped immediately feels like there just isn’t enough condition pressure to justify taking raw damage.

This trait spread however I love it is versatile for every weapon set you want to run. Or if you want to go full power or full conditions you can.

Mender’s purity=cleansing conflagration of it is more in Mender’s purity favor just judging the cleanses. Since it’s 2 every 20 seconds and torch phantasm is terrible.

Anyway i recently dusted my mesmer off as I main elementalist now but this was the build that I ended up liking the most.

I think it comes down to swordsman vs duelist. There was a recent thread saying duelist = Dps is swordsman if you have sharper images.

I think if you can get more then 1 out then swordsman if not duelist is better. That is my personal opinion. Swordsman is more likely to die since it’s melee.

Saw his comments sounds like to me they just said screw it and made elementalist the best group condition clear support in the game.

Basically if conditions are your problem bring a ele. That’s my guess anyway.

Yea I don’t understand it at all.

This is like back in my MW2 days with quick scope montages and kids believing that happens all the time when people play lol.

It’s a video for entertainment sure criticism is fine but how can people really have a problem with other people saying serape is a really player lol. Is this high school? We having king and queen popularity contest? We just stated our opinion based on experience against serane.

Where do these people come from lol. The op is serious now looks silly/bad probably won’t come back to thread and comment. So many of these silly threads lol

@ MonMallthias. I’ve seen you post and you seem reasonable but your facts are indeed wrong.

S/d cantrip was meta. D/d was good in WvW that’s it.

The problem was other classes where bad.

Would the d/d cantrip bunker be op against:

Current hambow wars?
S/d or s/p thieves?
Dhuumfire necro’s’?

Those meta builds above weren’t around when ele was supposedly op. 10/30/0/0/30 thieves could have ran that build back then but it wasn’t nearly as good now. The others I mentioned weren’t viable at all back then warrior wasn’t even close to viable period. Necro’s had no dhuumfire

Not beating a dead horse but you get my point. The old cantrip ele wouldn’t even be viable in today’s meta and would possibly get a consideration if it had the old bugged 1500 range RTL.

Also cantrip =/= d/d ele.

Does decoy = pu Mesmer? Almost ever Mesmer runs decoy and blink.

It’s utilities and everyone can take them ele is no different. Every class has terrible utilities and bis ones.

The problem is that the other options aren’t good. If .Ele had warrior stats or stealth would I use the signets? No like thieves don’t take venoms over shadow refuge or shadow step or mesmers don’t take signets over decoy or blink.

Every profession has utilites that are taken in most builds, shout guards and wars run shouts, most other builds run EP, Berserker stance, and a stability, you can throw in 1 other utility.

Mesmers mostly run blink, decoy, null or feedback.

Thieves mostly run shadow refuge, shadow step, 1 other utility. When was last time you saw a all trap or even 2 trap thief?

A dps guardian runs meditations or shouts or a 2 meds with stand your ground.

There isnt anything wrong with cantrips it’s just that other utilities aren’t that good. There is no choice when most of your utilites are subpar. This isn’t a problem with just Elementalist there is always going to be a best for what you want to do.

Of all the classes I play I would probably say that guardian has the most useful utilities but the other classes have good utilities sprinkled inside along with bad ones the Elementalist is no different.

Jeez this is crazy and kind of just speaks on the elementalist forum community tbh. It’s like people here are bothered that some of have referred to Serane as the best D/D we know. We don’t get free Gems for saying that and there is obviously a reason it has nothing to do with posting a video he just happens to post videos and be good.

There are alot of 20/20/30 PU mesmer builds on the mesmer forums or P/D perp thief videos and they don’t get this kind of hate. Seranes guild moves servers alot that is why people from different servers wills say that he is really good. I dueled serane when he was on SoS he is now on the same server as me, they will probably move again.

• The people that say serane is the best ele THEY KNOW have dueled Serane.

People from other servers know who Serane is like they know who Bitcloud is (NA server) Serane and Bit have dueled along time ago. When Serane is in the sanctum people come to duel him over and over and over again because they know about him.

Word of mouth happens I duel in the sanctum and people said I am really good. I don’t brag and just reply “I do ok” that’s just me I never been one to go and tell people that I am I good. Word of mouth spreads people don’t ask for it just happens I never been on SoS or Maguuma but somehow people know who I am from me dueling on my Ele. People have said “I heard you are pretty good” or “You are really good”.

I’ve said around Serane that I think he is the best Ele I know while in the sanctum he isn’t stuck up or conceited he doesn’t say anything just duels. He is a really cool guy this is just a dueling video solo content. He has a few other roaming videos. Against some of these specs you guys are talking about.

Mattmatt.4962:

Am i the only who isnt impresionned by this video ?
I mean, he/she only shows fight where his/her build is the rock against the cissor. What about condi-spec ? You dont show duel againt this kind of build cause you just cant do anything (or maybe you show this at the end, but i got tired before, anyway i bet 10gold you dont). I really hate this kind of video, where you “show off” THIS is the word cause you dont say a word about what owns you even if its just a matter of build, say it, cause here you’re just dishonest with the viewer (that why i say “showing off”).

I wont comment about your policy of “i’ll help in game not on the forum”, as i understand your point of view.

I don’t understand why someone that posts a dueling video has to justify posting it. If you don’t like it don’t watch and nobody told you to believe everything you see on T.V. either. It’s just like any montage.

He did fight a zerk shatter mesmer which are rare these days but will roll a D/D Ele. I don’t expect a Ele to post a video vs hambow because even if the Ele does win it’s going to take about 5 minutes anyway I don’t want to watch that.

Lets say Serane did post vs a P/D perplexity thief, a condition necro, a hambow warrior or any warrior build for that matter, a PU condi mesmer though he does have a vid against a phantasm mesmer. If he won all of those in his duels the naysayers would jump in and say “OMG they where bad they didn’t do X,Y, and Z when you did A,B, and C.” It’s lose lose just enjoy the dueling video it’s the same concept as a roaming video.

If you consider yourself a good player and find yourself in a 1vX where you are apart of X do you think you are going to kill the enemy or find yourself getting rolled in a montage? If you are a good player you aren’t going to get 1vX’d these videos are made for entertainment nothing more.

The people that say that Serane is really good have dueled Serane. It’s not like we haven’t fought him before FYI his guild moves servers all the time like seriously all the time for GvG purposes.

The RTL nerf was dumb they just needed to reduce the range to 1200 and leave the cd at 20 seconds. RTL is not the norm for a ability that can be used as an escape. RTL is the exception not the rule.

No you listed 2 examples of movement skills/classes that you don’t think is balanced and want to re-write the entire rules for movement for the whole game. The forum subsection is falling apart at the seems.

Nerf x buff Y because I give you some half thought out reason.

Disagree I don’t want my elementalist to be my Mesmer with invisibility. Mesmers and thieves have easy invisibility access because they use the same type of magic Denial. Elementalist magic is destruction magic.

Also a 1500 range teleport? You don’t see a issue with that at all? Invisibility has been a rogue like thing since forever. Ele is more of a caster then a Mesmer. Mesmer has very little AOE and when the numbers get higher like 5+ mesmers end up being mage thieves really only dealing damage to 1 person or some clumped up idiots who get caught by your ileap.

This sounds like a D/D player assuming all Ele’s play D/D.

You think S/D and Staff should be in medium armor?

You feel like PU is carrying you? You die that much without it or feel that it is just to good to give up? I know many people don’t run PU. Prayer to lyssa isn’t a good substitute unless its giving you protection -33% damage, regen or aegis. All 3 of those boons are great with protection being the best imo.

Good video!

Spppooooon!!! With his big ears!

Is this the standard 30/10/0/0/30? The old chill of death was bad this new one is better the threshold had to be raised. 35% threshold would probably still kill you 50% at least gives you counterplay to recover instead of a trait basically kill you outright.

Arganthium.5638:

Once eles get back on par with other classes, then this trait should be nerfed.

Should it?

You sound confident that it should be once Ele is on par with other classes but maybe the other changes that happen including this are what put it on par with other classes. What would put elementalist on par with other classes that it’s vigor would still need to be nerfed? Just calling for nerfs is easy and happens alot on these forums.

Any D/D would need sustain regardless of what they do since it is essentially a melee fighter. It wouldn’t be better then a thief at bursting.

Any S/D is going to have to be high crit damage to get good substantial damage so it will be squishier then D/D.

Staff this trait competes with blasting staff and 9/10 blasting staff will always win over this. Then you can have 20 points arcana for both but your losing damage by doing so or your squishy.

D/F or S/F have their issues and will fall in line with either a Bunker or Squishy D/D or a Squishy S/D.

Why would the trait need to be nerfed again? I can’t think of any scenario where they buffed a ele and still need to nerf it. Even the old cantrip bunker wouldn’t last in today’s meta.

Elementalist forums the only profession forums where its always 1 Ele Weapon user vs Another Ele weapon user. Cantrips = D/D always smh. Anything that will ever give a Elementalist Regen makes 30 water better therefore = Bad. New meta is 30 water S/D Eles?

Balance patch will read

Burning speed evade & Armor of Earth cd reduced

The end……

OMG they buffed D/D Eles because they are the only eles that use Armor of Earth.

I don’t want balance where they say all the ele’s are using cantrips so they are balanced and therefore we should never touch them again. Armor of Earth needed this buff.

Signets are just weak and need to all be changed even Fire.

another good one only thing is dat chat box cover is kind of annoying.

Burning is good to counter regen builds like warrior it also does a pretty good amount of direct damage also.

Also props on the 2nd duel vs Shatter Mesmer. I know that Mes is full zerk and we all know shatter mesmer get eat a d/d ele’s lunch.

Staff can run cantrips, D/D, S/D, S/F, D/F.

People run cantrips because for the most part ele utilities aren’t good. If there was other options people would run them as it is now people mostly run cantrips.

Signets are bad, glyphs are bad. , arcana skills have a few uses.

They are just reducing the cooldown on armor of earth which was long overdue. You think armor of earth is strong then you meet a 30 in trickery thief and you might aswell not hve it on at all.

RNG isn’t necessarily bad and in some cases you can build and keep certain expectations even with RNG.

Take a on crit trait like dhuumfire, critical infusion, vigorous precision.

If I have 50% chance to Crit isn’t it safe to assume that I will proc these with in there icd cooldown? There is also counter play to that RNG a Mesmer that pulls out 3 Phantasms doesn’t get and crits to proc his vigor trait.

If my crit chance is reasonable I can rely on sigil of fire and sigil of air. Most of the player base wouldn’t want these changes I feel. The slower paced the combat, the less unpredictability that you introduce the more likely fights can be determined by a simple spreadsheet.

I love Jam also but I been seeing to much thief from jam not enough Ele.

Mbelch.9028:

oZii.2864:

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Mbelch.9028:

Bahahah. You literally just said this to one of the best eles in the game. You “cleerly” are a troll and I hope nobody feeds you further.

Best ele in game? psh. I dnt thnk so. she has too fire daggerhs. obvsly a pve hero. r u 2 blind 2 c tht? nvr ven yoused rubling grownd attk + lightning tele. sry but I am at least 14 times bettan than this girl in vid.

I will say that when you see a super pale d/d Ele with no pupils then you will see a Pro Elementalist.

Inadvertently or not, you just described me lol. We do look very similar I suppose.

You have like a little tan Jam is super pale ascalonian like.

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Mbelch.9028:

Bahahah. You literally just said this to one of the best eles in the game. You “cleerly” are a troll and I hope nobody feeds you further.

Best ele in game? psh. I dnt thnk so. she has too fire daggerhs. obvsly a pve hero. r u 2 blind 2 c tht? nvr ven yoused rubling grownd attk + lightning tele. sry but I am at least 14 times bettan than this girl in vid.

I will say that when you see a super pale d/d Ele with no pupils then you will see a Pro Elementalist.

I believe it is agg guild policy to not share builds I believe for GvG purposes. My guild doesn’t share our GvG builds. Builds are a very intricate part of GvG’s. Could just be a NA thing because I know chemsorly shared his build.

Roaming builds I personally don’t care but some do

I do agree that the guardian forums are great I thought that also long before I made one but brutality’s 30 valor sticky doesn’t give you a exact gear selection just shows the stats with pics but the guide is great.

Serane = Jump dodge pro

Lucentfir.7430:

I find it funny how my post gets called a mindless statement, when it’s a legitimate question. Everyone got touchy and defensive about the subject of ele’s vigor on crit. I asked the question because it was stated by a Dev. Anet wanted to change vigor across the board, because they don’t like permanent vigor in the game. Yet they say that they leave Ele’s vigor intact which contradicts their reasoning .

Let me help you out since you didn’t take the time to Read about you beloved Guardians vigor and EXACTLY what the Devs said.

Karl McLain.5604:

Profession Changes
Guardian:
We’re continuing to lower the amount of vigor available to all professions, especially from sources with low trait point investments. We’ve also made a few minor adjustments to healing skills to make them more reliable.

• Litany of Wrath: Reduced the cast time from 1 second to 3/4 second.
• Vigorous Precision: Increased the recharge from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
• Healing Breeze: This ability has been re-scaled so that the guardian receives 50% of the heal near the start of the heal and then heals for 10% for 5 ticks to the caster and up to 5 allies in the cone.

Mesmer:
We’re continuing to lower the amount of vigor available to all professions, especially from sources with low trait point investments. Based on your feedback, we decided to revert our proposed change to Deceptive Evasion.

• Critical Infusion: Increased the recharge from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
• Illusion of Drowning: Changed skill from a multi-hit to a single-hit, increasing damage to compensate.

We’re continuing to lower the amount of vigor available to all professions, especially from sources with LOW TRAIT INVESTMENTS

Now does this echo the reasons given in this thread by multiple people on why Renewing stamina is not getting nerfed (Again).

Renewing stamina was nerfed already a long time ago. Bountiful thief was nerfed Already. This round it is 5 point trait investment vigor i.e. Guardian and Mesmer.

I am not saying I agree with them nerfing those 2 traits at all because I don’t but at least be correct in what the Devs said when asking about the Elementalist Vigor trait. Many including myself have said why the difference between a 5 point investment and 10 point investment is pretty big.

So your question was already answered by a Dev. You just had to read it.

Really instead of a Why me and not this guy thread this should have been a discussion on the Concept of to much dodging in Guild Wars 2.

I don’t understand where this even came from. This feels like it should be directed at 10/30/0/30/0 thief builds but is hitting every build including 20 in trick thieves.

I just don’t understand why nerf a all around defense. Less dodges means people take more damage and damage is not a problem in this game at all.

Greatsword is the last thing I want on my Ele. Sure I’ll take it but last. I don’t like greatsword on Mesmer and prefer staff on my mesmer even in a power build.

Hammer is where it’s at a Ele with 4 elements using a hammer would be awesome. Dat Banish.

Orrr Dual Swords on Ele!

I don’t know tbh I personally don’t think vigor uptime on guardian and Mesmer is a problem I have both classes along with my main which is ele. I think this is a s/tPvP focused nerf brought about probably by people claiming there is to much random dodges or people aren’t dodging skillfully. That is the only way I think this came up.

Bran.7425:

It still comes across as a bit double standard though making the statement that they do not want permanent vigor up-time and begin work to lower vigor up-time across many profession, but do not touch a couple of professions in that over all change.

It would be like when they changed quickness, except deciding that it wouldn’t effect one of the quickness granting skills.

Slightly off-topic is the passive of Signet of Stamina on the chopping block as well?

This is different vigor isn’t changing in functionality. Quickness functionality was changed not classes access to it.

I guess you could say its lazy but that’s what most of the player base asks for.

People said d/d ele was to strong asked for nerfs and got it.
Necro to strong slowly receiving nerfs the last few patches
Evade thief to strong nerf plox
Warrior to strong nerf plox

There is more but I would be surprised if there are more buff please thread then nerf threads.

If rangers and mesmers are getting rolled by necro’s ranger’s and mesmers are more likely to ask for nerfs to necro’s because they might not know exactly why they are getting rolled but they know they are getting rolled.

Another example is I don’t play a ranger do you think I will go to the ranger forums and ask for a buff to rangers? Probably not.

I think anets buff/nerf pace now is better then when they rolled the elementalist back in the day because other professions where to weak.

Kyon.9735:

oZii.2864:

Kyon.9735:

What most people see from this topic is that “My guard got nerfed, nerf Eles too to make it fair”. Maybe eles should cry “give us the highest armor and low CD boon skills too to make it fair”.

I also see someone that says that have a Ele but can’t possibly be in depth with it to even bring this up.

If you’re talking about me, I put that up as a sarcastic “mindless post” in return to the mindless statement “my guard got nerfed, nerf eles to make it fair”. Believe me, I play Ele in depth enough not to QQ in every single forum to nerf every single class that kills me.

No I was agreeing with you and was referring to the OP

Kyon.9735:

What most people see from this topic is that “My guard got nerfed, nerf Eles too to make it fair”. Maybe eles should cry “give us the highest armor and low CD boon skills too to make it fair”.

This is what I see I also see someone that says that have a Ele but can’t possibly be in depth with it to even bring this up. It isn’t the Elephant in the room Ele’s vigor trait didn’t go unseen and got lucky to not get nerfed. Most people understand why it is being left untouched.

This is a perfect example of traits that function similar but are handled different for balance. Also see incendiary powder v dhuumfire. Basically mesmer and guardian nerf has nothing to do with Ele.

He goes back and bumps his threads once they fall a few pages. It’s really stupid and obvious. The discussion was ok at first but if the thread is meant to die let it die.

These are terrible changes really swiftness on weapon swap for sigil of air? What game mode do you play because that is terrible change since the impact of swiftness in a fight is small since this only activates in combat like all swap sigils as any Ele how awesome one with air is and 1.5 seconds of super speed.

Meh don’t like any of these at all.

I put Elementalist as my top of course.

I put Necro next because well I feel my other classes are fine. Necro has alot of bugs and can use some help with blood magic builds that don’t revolve around minion master. Obviously condition builds on necromancers are in a good spot power builds did get a slight buff with the less decay in DS for life blast builds but blood magic trait line is pretty terrible besides the minion stuff. I would say blood magic for necro’s is worse then any elementalist line since life steal is terrible scaling but that is just my opinion.

I feel my thief, mesmer (though scepter could use some love on auto attack), warrior, Guardian (does need soft cc for dps builds in pvp) are in a good spot.

Guardian is great but I feel that it being good a bunker kind of holds them buffing dps builds or at least giving med guardians a little bit of soft CC to stay on target which would be a indirect buff to all guardian builds.

I didn’t put ranger because spirit ranger is top meta in sPvP it could use some love and PvE some love though spotter rangers are used afaik but I am not a ranger expert.