Guild Wars 2

I think the main concern is that dueling will be used to validate a balance gripe.

If you look at most balance discussions for spvp WvW roaming or duels always ends up thrown in the mix unless it is something that is extremely no viable with WvW like hambow. In duels hambow is strong in WvW roaming it is not because of mobility but in WvW roaming and dueling lines are blurred because it’s usually the same builds used for both.

The casual nature and fun of dueling gets lost on some because they just happened to be hard countered in a duel. Dueling is all some do and care about a supported mode gives them a voice.

I’d be cool with supported dueling if I thought the majority would see it as nothing more then casual fun but I can’t say I am confident it would.

When I am on my ele running a standard cantrip d/d build I know a necro is a uphill fight, when I am on my necro I know a cantrip ele is a easier fight since ele is my main and I consider myself a decent player I shouldn’t lose. If I lose on my ele against a necro I won’t come screaming for nerfs to necro’s it did what it is suppose to do I realize that most don’t see it that way they think their build should beat all builds 1-10 with the same success rate.

I say implement it for the overall fun of the game I just want it to get the WvW treatment of we don’t balance around duels.

Yea I think let the runes in give it 2 weeks to monitor and hit up the community then go from there.

A lot of condi classes are going to run this so there should be plenty to judge on after2 weeks. It’s impact or lack of will be seen immediately the rune isn’t necessarily new in function so it shouldn’t take long to figure out if it needs to be readjusted.

Like I said any class with interrupt this rune is a no brainer if you are condi. Figuring out which does more damage and therefore is the must have rune for condi is easy for condition builds.

It is possible they are betting on the anti condition runes to counter condition classes if they buffed those too. They buffed sigil of accuracy to 7% crit chance which I didn’t see coming at all so anything is possible.

@ ukuni I was referencing WvW my apologies there should have clarified. I agree other condi spec will be strong in spvp but one of the things that engi has going for it over a necro is it’s mobility ar is going to weaken engi vs condi spec post patch. Necro’s will definitely leave no doubt that they are the condition king with this rune.

@ insanemaniac. I’ll take alook at the balth runes. I just really hate most on heal procs except for lyssa

ukuni.8745:

engi vs engi sure perplexity is good but get back to us after you get wasted over and over by the other classes running perplexity and tell us how great it is, you literally have no clue how bad this rune is with the new changes coming do you?

The math still favors the set over anything else as long as you get one interrupt and confusion proc damage.

The current 4 piece is good because you could get a opener proc. The revised version will be much farther out of your control and has a long icd. Still the 6th piece wins vs any other set.

If your 6 piece procs for 600 damage your other rune sets conditions need to somehow find a 600 Dps total increase in that same time frame.

Right now and even post patch if the 4 or 6 piece never proc scavenging, undead, noble, torment(if you get a proc), krait(w/proc),orrian(w/proc) will all out Dps perplexity but if the 6 procs perp wins. This assuming those runes procs don’t allow for a similar 6 piece post update.

4 damage condition @ 1600 condi damage will always be better then 3 at the same damage. Probably even 3 at 1800 won’t be better the 4 at 1600.

Possible contenders are rune of torment, scavenging, krait, orrian we have to see how they changed their procs. If your running off hand pistol then it really doesn’t matter much if you run something else. You really just get benefit from the 4. The duration will probably be fixed.

jamesg.7128:

Relshdan.6854:

not much of a nerf

? #4 has gone from when YOU hit someone else to when YOU are hit. That means the one affected may not be the one you’re targetting. That’s a pretty big nerf.

I hate procs like this on offensive runes. They should look at procs and adjust them more individually. Rune of earth is fine with that kind of proc it makes sense. Krait doesn’t with 1 bleed stack? Strength I would prefer it be when you strike instead of when struck. It just makes more sense and would be more diversity.

With when struck effects players will weigh the effect vs possible damage. Or ignore it if the 6th piece is really good.

Take strength nobody will care much for the 4 piece “when struck” if they can get good reliable might access BUT if they can get it they also won’t care about the “when struck” because they can produce might themselves.

Viking Jorun.5413:

What people don’t understand is that, in order to fight someone heavily invested in stealth uptime (PU mesmers, SA thieves), you have to swap to an extremely aggressive playstyle. Stealth is an offensive mechanic, meant to put your opponent on edge and keep the upper hand in order to control the fight. When facing an aggressive opponent however, they will use any and all channeled bursts, AoEs, and cleaves to make sure you go down. If I’m casually roaming on my no-stealth build and find a PU mesmer, I’ll let them blow their cooldowns, get some distance, and chain shadowsteps back in order to lock them down, swapping to SB when they stealth to shotgun cluster bomb. If you let a stealther control the fight rather than controlling them, you’re not going to win – plain and simple. People just don’t get that.

Your PU mesmer example is perfect the bold is perfect!

This same thinking applies to fighting condition builds.

Sarrs.4831:

They also revealed a Lyssa nerf; I didn’t notice them all, but I did notice that the 6pc bonus was “convert 3 conditions into boons”. Big change, obviously.

It’s 5 conditions

Sorry to disappoint you poliswag, I am not the GF member that cares about internet kudo points. I enjoy forum discussions but everyone has opinions.

I’ll bite on your proposed crutch! If you run a condition build you don’t win respect points from anyone sure you can tell all your friends, the forums, and reddit you don’t run perplexity but you still run a condi build and power primary players won’t change their opinion of you.

There is no crutch from perplexity it is the best condition rune, your running a condition build there isn’t much play difference between a condi running perp and non perp. You are ok to interrupt anything with perp and non perp you rather interrupt the cleanse or heal.

If perplexity is a crutch then a condition build is a little less of a crutch but still a crutch nonetheless. You are hated by alot of primary power players it’s still hate but a little less if you don’t run perplexity.

Khalic.3561:

Unless you’re relying on traits/sigils/runes that require crit to proc, the damage increase from precision on a build with less than 2400 attack is pretty minimal. Dire builds in general can hit very hard for the amount of survivability they’re given. Especially compared to how much survivability many crit builds have to give up to do the same damage a bit quicker. Let’s be honest, while it’s not instantaneous, there are plenty of condi build out there that can deal damage fast enough to be called “burst”.

With the reduction in crit damage, I definitely expect to see even more condi setups in small scale WvW.

I thought that too then I crit with pry bar on my engineer for 1.2-1.5k and non crit for 854. I don’t call that minimal damage increase of course it helps that the base damage is already high which it is for many engi attacks why they can hybrid decently.

If your a necro running scepter then that scales like crap with direct damage so it’s a no brainer. Thief doesn’t need precision for anything in a condi build why carrion was the popular choice before. Mesmers need the precision if they plan to kill anyone at all with a condi build that is already weak on condi spike ability.

I’ve stated in other threads on the subject but it will probably a more interesting discussion here.

These will always be the best condition damage runes if you have decent interrupts. If you don’t have any at all then it’s no big deal if you use another set.

Just the 6 piece will keep these runes at the top of the food chain for condition damage unless krait, afflicted, tormenting are changed in a way to make you proc their, bleed, poison, or torment more reliably like perplexity runes does. Then it would be debatable based on the icd what the math says.

They can get rid of the 4 piece now tbh with this change just leave the 6. I hate when you get struck effects on runes unless it is a defensive oriented rune like earth.

Some of you might have seen it here is what the new perplexity runes will look like.

I run them on my Engi I will still run them on my engi. There is no way any other condi rune can compete unless they make it so that they can catch up or out dps the 5 stacks on interrupt.

It’s possible that afflicted or krait have changed to a more controllable proc for their poison or bleeding applications respectively so still need to wait and see. Just based of the stream changes they are still the best runes for dps.

Damage is to good to ignore. There isn’t anything they can do UNLESS one of the old condi runes procs effects like afflicted does poison, or krait does bleeding. Otherwise perplexity will always be the top rune for dps until another rune can out damage the 4 or 6 piece bonus or catch up to the 6th piece if they give it a ungodly icd.

For necros it wasnt that big a trade off between perplex or scavenging but with fear being a interrupt now if you don’t take them it’s a self kitten .

Based on what Roy said it is possible you could runes of the afflicted or krait be better or on par.

It makes sense that they allow afflicted to proc poison in its 6th piece and krait to apply bleeds.

There isn’t anything they can do to not make these the best Dps runes for condi classes except make the 6piece cd long enough that another rune set can catch up in Dps. At that point they might as well not add them.

I think it would just be better to not add them but they will because it’s in line with making the game more intergrated. Any suggestion given here will have them nerfed that nobody will take them.

Dee Jay.2460:

You have got to be kidding me!

Perplexity already ruined WvW roaming. It still is the most ridiculously overpowered Rune-Set in this game and it will break sPvP if you introduce it.

A Rune set should synergize well with your build. It shouldn’t be able to carry entire builds that would otherwise be non-viable.

P/D thieves, Mesmers, Engineers? Those are the main classes that run the rune in WvW roaming and they are still good without the rune anyway. Not sure where you roam but 1 rune set didn’t ruin roaming where I have played. All of those builds are “Viable” in roaming because anything is viable in roaming. We are talking sPvP here hambow isn’t “viable” solo roaming because it lacks mobility so should hambow not be nerfed in sPvP? Roaming is not a basis to balance s/tPvP off of it’s just dueling builds anyway 9/10.

If you dont’ like the set fine but we could use with less hyperbole.

The problem with your post is that you preface it by questioning the devs. Insinuating that they don’t play the class and maybe don’t realize it needs buffs. Then you follow with OP suggestions that makes me question if you play ele? I wouldn’t want any of your suggestions cause I know how over the top it would make ele.

Speaking from my engi and necro’s perspective I am willing to bet not many can tell if they are fighting dire or rabid builds.

Dire let’s condition builds be attrition. It will still kill slower then rabid because it won’t crit as often.

They killed me with that one! It makes no sense because nobody will take it over EA. Boon duration is already going to take a hit in PvE/WvW so I don’t understand why it isn’t just 10 sec icd per attunement just like EA is. I was going to give it a try assuming a 10 sec icd per attunement because that just makes sense now I don’t plan to.

I’m a reasonable person usually and think with a open mind on balance but this one baffles me. Even blinding ashes I can kind of see the thinking because it follows the standard pattern for traits of that type, though I think a cap of 3 is better.

Please No!!!

• Elemental contingency competes with evasive arcana a global 10 sec icd means nobody will take it. Lets look at the blog post on the sigils changes for inspiration. Everyone takes fire sigil over air because the damage is marginally less and hits more then 1 target. You guys adjusted fires damage down and dropped Air’s icd to 3 secs. Reason given in the blog post is because it competes with fire and fire was always better. Elemental contingency competes with Evasive if the icd is 10 sec per attunement then I would certainly try it out. If it is global there isn’t any point because EA is always better.

• Blinding ashes is disappointing that it is 1 per target then global icd. I think a cap of 3 is better here we are talking about a 30 fire ele who will probably be squish.

• I like lightning rod being halting strike comparable that is what I was hoping for.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Thief get a trait that gives them a 50% damage reduction while in stealth…they spend like 90% of a fight in stealth. Ele get a trait that stops crit hits in a a attunement you don’t want to use as much as possible.

Glass half empty

A thief 90% in stealth isn’t doing damage! Or only doing damage 10% of the time.
Thief takes that trait loses sustain no shadow rejuvenation!
How often do you think you actually hit good thieves in stealth?

Alphard.6529:

Cecilia.5179:

I really do hope there will be a rune set that gives 30% boon duration or higher, but as of now, we can only hope.

It’s unlikely that we’ll get higher, because it would be considered OP in sPVP, and they’ve said that the rune sets will be the same across both pve and pvp.

This is true but didn’t they also say there is no more 6/6 rune model in sPvP. You put on 1 rune and get all 6 effects. In pve and wvw you will still be able to mix and match. I think anyone looking for higher then 55% total boon duration will need to use the food. You could always run exotic trinkets and throw on platinum doubloons.

Reeses does have a very good point, I really could care less about classes played it probably is still ranger at the top to go along with elementalist. That doesn’t really tell us anything.

I would care more about build numbers even then I think you have some sifting to do because lets say mesmers pop up with 80% using 20/20/30 in WvW you have power builds and condi builds running that setup. You then have 20/20/30 lockdown builds or interrupt builds.

Obviously using that example what would need to be identified is how many use PU for example but it is a GM trait. GM traits are suppose to have a big impact on your build. We could us the data to identify how many are going 30 Dom which would probably not be many. On the other hand do we really need data to know that?

Most people that play enough and hit the forums enough are the ones discussing/arguing on the forums. I feel most regular forum goers know what the meta builds are for the modes of play they enjoy. I guess data could speed up discussions past proving if something is overplayed or the “goto spec” and move toward more “why” discussions.

Harper.4173:

Sadly this is true. That would happen and that’s why we don’t get numbers.

A few days ago I saw people on this forum stating that if each player in a 5 man zerker party took a 10% damage nerf the entire party took a 50% damage nerf.
That’s how they understand math and they wouldn’t hear anything else. Because numbers.

Numbers, percentages, and math in general is GREAT for making people who don’t understand one iota of it feel justified and right.

Lol I saw that thread I think it was in the guardian forums or the same thing was stated in a thread there.

I only have 2 pieces of celestial on my ele right now I don’t think they make or break anything. I kind of gave up on min/maxing and obsessing over things like 10 power vs 10 toughness because of so many variables in combat that it hardly matters.

I hope the ascended announcement applies to trinkets so that I can move different trinkets around to my characters I hate running fractals and guild missions. They aren’t necessarily hard but I would rather be in WvW killing people.

Ash the burning on a condi necro and engi is huge man. It doesn’t even take much math to figure it out. Sure don’t have to use it but that’s really gimping yourself.

@1600 condition damage

Burning = 728 DPS

Poison = 240
Bleeding = 123
Torment = 91

Total= 454 DPS w/ no burning (LOL)

6 bleeds = 738 DPS

Bleeds are the only real threat you can get bleed stacks high BUT because of the fact that it is going to stack intensity it stays in the same position in queue because it is refreshed. This makes it extremely hard to cover your bleeding damage.

If the bleed is in position 5 out of 8 then the bleed will stay in position 5 until it wears off or wipes and you reapply(which means you arent doing anything on a condi necro).

You attack normally like you would and the bleed will eventually move to position 8 and there isn’t anything you can do about it. This happens rapidly that is why it is hard to kill someone with just bleeds. Even on a condi necro without burning it is going to take alot longer.

Chastein.9874:

How are people supposed to play Elementalist? It seems that playing Dagger/Dagger has degenerated the minds of Dagger/Dagger exclusive players into a gameplay wherein they switch attunements just to spam all available skills.

Pretty much this! I mean lightning whip is a strong pressure auto attack that you should be using that gives you time for attunements to be off cooldown.

Zephyron.7081:

What is EHP? Sorry for my noobness.

basically a way to give you an idea of how long you can survive unavoidable damage before dying.

It is more relevant in a PvP environment if you both are attacking each other with no dodges using no invuln or block skills. It’s much easier to apply it to PvE since the fights are much easier to predict.

Chaosky.5276:

Mitigating burst with Stone Heart every now and then doesn’t help when autoattacks still destroy me.

Honestly, I can see it being pretty good for Ether Renewal bunkers, but it still doesn’t help bring more balanced builds into play, because one has to give up too much damage/health+healing for such builds to take it.

If you have any points in water you are more bunker then earth. There is more reliable modifiers for damage in earth then there is in water. Stone splinters>vital striking any day of the week.

I will never make a ranger but I have every other class at 80. You get perspective having multiple classes but not everyone really digs into their alts like their main. Really what is ideal is people playing their alts and reading the forums of their alts at the same time.

Also people like to do different things.

I roam mostly and what annoys me depends on what class in playing usually what annoys people is what they complain about on the forums.

The only class I love fighting no matter what I’m playing is a thief yet they are probably the most complained about class even before people qq’d about warriors.

Hate pu mesmers? Sure I hate them when I’m on my ele or my Mesmer or warrior

Hate warriors? Sure when I’m on my ele

Hate necro’s? When I’m on my ele, or Mesmer, guardian, or engi

Hate engi? When I’m on my thief? Or pu Mesmer, or warrior.

I main elementalist but I play my alts enough to realize some are weak and some are stronger but they are all either beatable or ignorable if I’m out roaming.

I don’t put much stock into dueling balance because it’s usually p/d thieves, d/d Eles, hambow, mace warriors, perp engis, pu mesmers, terrormancers.

I have ran or run the popular dueling roaming builds for all of them. The funny thing is what bothers you changes depending on what your playing. You realizes nothing is unbeatable.

There is no balanced builds there is only jack of all trade master of none builds in roaming because nobody is specializing. That’s why you can take any of your classes maker it bunker and the popular roaming builds can’t kill you if you don’t want them to.

Anyway my personal view is that balance is pretty good in gw2. Your build never should be the end all be all for every encounter you will come across your counter you can overcome that if you are better then them. This isn’t chess or pong.

Not many traits you take now don’t turn the tide of battle! Your play does that. Cleansing water doesn’t turn the tide of battle if you fight power builds.

For every trait you take now I can come up with just as many what ifs where the trait did nothing for you just like your doing with stone heart.

I can easily point out why putting 30 points in air just for the damage is better then putting so many points into arcana. Your looking for tide turning generality traits within your specific build or traits that are good enough for you to give up your points in water or arcana. The new trait that covers what your looking for is 30 fire coupled with burning precision something that can work regardless of the attunement your in.

Sent from my iPhone

Avead.5760:

Lol.. the trait is not supposed to be all and end all for the ele. Its 1 out of 2 possible gm in your build afterall. Its not supposed to give you free pass against 2vs1s without cds etc ..:D

Exactly! I just don’t follow the logic going on here!

fingers crossed for per target gcd! though if they give it the dhuumfire/incendiary treatment I don’t know if it will be good enough.

This needs to be per target anything less would be a big disappointment.

First order of business is 30 points in Fire and going from there to see what I can cook up.

Then I’ll try 30 earth but I prefer to blow something up then go very defensive if I can get away with it. 30 earth is capable of good damage output but can hold a candle to 30 fire.

Probably 30/0/0/20/20 or 30/10/0/20/10 the latter will probably be my first choice hard giving up swiftness.

Yea Ash man I just don’t follow how you play Elementalist and use the arguement that earth isn’t a threat. It’s like you don’t understand the attunements or Ele at all.

It’s like if it isn’t big damage then it’s a waste. Therefore delete “Earth Line” should we delete water? Unless you can tell me how water attunement is a “threat” or is it ok for water to not be a threat cause it has a heal(only if you go 15 points in anyway).

If you plan to stay 30 water 30 arcana these traits aren’t for you. 30 water 30 arcana is still viable now and will be after the patch you would have to give up 30 points somewhere and if you aren’t comfortable doing that then that’s your playstyle.

People will be fine experimenting with these new traits and moving trait points around to see what they come up with. Someone has to go out and try the traits because people are afraid to move points out of water or arcana won’t.

The outcome is new builds are popularized and you hop on the train. No new builds happen and you tell everyone I told you so. To get there people have to go out and try the traits we know you wont try them thats ok.

LordByron.8369:

ether renewal is slow….
20 in water is almost mandatory :/ that because cantrip reduction, and cond cleanse are still a thing..

Expecially since you desperately need lightning flash for mobility with a 40 second RTL or any profession will outrun you.

I will try for sure
30/10/0/0/30 but i know i will change for sure :/ maybe 30/20/0/20/0 but the loss of all arcana trait is heavy…

Until they cancel RTL nerf i can t see anything helping me to leave 30 arcana and 20 water

Ether renewal scales at 1.2 it is the best scaling heal we have. I gain appreciation for it when I looked at the fact that it does give me the best return on my healing power. I still run signet but Ether isn’t so bad at all if you can cover it.

Also like was mentioned Sigil of purity and generosity(if you can afford them) will give you at minimum 50% chance to remove a conditions with a 10 sec icd. If they keep them at 60% all the better. If runes of water do come out to be decent with the changes coming bringing the proc chance up to 25%, then that would be another removal. You would take a dps loss running this setup but you can make 30 water 30 arcana even better dealing with conditions and indirectly buff running SOR since it’s weakness is conditions.

High hp guards? Low hp warriors? Zerk high risk warrior was before healing sig buff

SonOfKrypton.4357:

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

As has been mentioned… Thieves will just wait for you to switch out of earth, and then burst you down—rendering the trait useless.

I think you’re overestimating the intelligence of thieves. “If it moves backstab it. Blocking? YOLO. Invuln? Spam it till it works. Ima whip you with my pistol, so skill.”

Rolf I like this guy!! Was on my engi last night S/D thief double dodging, flanking spam into my bombs, heartseeker preloading while I have tool kit block up, etc…

It’s like many go through the motions this guy was evading,withdraw, double dodging just to do it like it was cool. I love S/d it’s my fav thief set but there are a lot of bad players out there and a lot of average players that assume your bad. You know you got them when they come back for revenge kills.

If people slow down a little they would improve a lot. Half the time you can kite around and watch people blow their main load. There is a lot going on but thieves are the best class to fight against while being patient.

^^. I always felt that the guards low hp is really the only thing that keeps med guards in check. We will see though as I see meds going 30 honor for the extra vit. I plan to try it on my guard. Med guards already do well against warrior builds without the hp boost.

If shatter mesmers and Eles both re-emerge in the s/tPvP meta together I can see stone heart being very important for Eles to deal with shatter mesmers’s.

To the ThiBash they are toning down burst damage with the crit damage changes.

If thieves got bumped up to 13k base people would ask for a nerf to X probably shadow’s embrace and rejuve.

Bumping up guardians to 13k and slightly nerfing their tankiness is taking away things people are use to which have people complain.

I even think Eles not right away would get complained about eventually. Omg S/d is to beefy with rock barrier nerf rock barrier or something along those lines.

If you bump up the bases you are going to have to nerf something’s which takes away things people like having(the ones that aren’t on the forums).

Cogbyrn.7283:

Jerus.4350:

Ele, Guard, Thief… toss in a mesmer and baby you have a stew going.

I added what I was expecting you to say. I’ve had too much of that reference in IMs recently to not fully expect you to finish with the AD reference.

But in the end you’re right. Health/Armor are a flavor/style element that I would hate to see go. People worry about balance more to help excuse their own poor play from being a generally mediocre/bad player than to actually try to help the game. Sometimes that worry just reaches too far. See: this thread.

I agree anytime something from balance patches comes up with new traits/skills etc. The first thing I would think about is how can players abuse this. 3k-5k+ on the low hp professions would bring more QQ. Things would have to be nerfed to compensate eventually leading to many professions playing like a warrior. Alot of ele suggestions I see just move it toward a warrior type of playstyle a hulking juggernaut.

DiogoSilva.7089:

If there’s ever a +30% duration for all boons in this game, then what would be the point of investing on the much inferior +45% duration for a single boon only?

This “nerf” to overall boon duration makes sense, because it’ll create incentives for players to specialize on specific boons.

Besides, the new Rune of Strength is very lovely to D/D eles, especially now that sigil of battle can be coupled with sigil of strength, and assuming that sigil of strength gets a slight buff.

I really do hope there will be a rune set that gives 30% boon duration or higher, but as of now, we can only hope.

As of now, you’ll be able to get at least 20% by mixing 4 runes of monk with 2 other boon duration runes, assuming that there will still exist a second set that offers +5% on the second effect.

This is my thinking also the only saving grace that I see is they put a general boon duration rune at 30% and it is a healing power rune. The fact that it would be healing power would be the only turn off I think to not just take it over other rune.

Still though if strength is boosted to 50% on crit with battle 25 stacks will be very easy with out even trying.

FrownyClown.8402:

Too much burn is rather wasted. I think the burn on crit proc would suffice.

I agree that should hold up enough for you to proc it reliably with its 5 sec icd. This trait will be very good I think blind is very very strong. Also just going 30 in fire is going to give you alot of damage. There will be sacrifice in standard builds but I think this will open a new build.

Now using your magnetic grasp through fire field is so much better looking for fire aura, focus fire aura and fire wall it’s so good.

LightningBlaze.4913:

This post made by shimmerless is worth reading from start to finish. It evaluate crucial points towards the usefulness of our traits. His statements are significant. For example:

" If you don’t have a purpose in mind for the traits you’re choosing when investing in Earth, then you’ll likely be dissatisfied, but it has nothing to do with the merit of Earth Magic or Earth Attunement itself"

and

" The magic lines themselves aren’t really about singling out a single attunement, per se, but rather about tailoring the Elementalist in a direction that favors the goal, rotations and temperament of the player".

I agree it perfectly describes how the elementalist is designed to be played.

Aedrion.6483:

Warrior / Necromancer — 18372 Base HP

Ranger/ Engineer / Mesmer — 15082 Base HP

Guardian / Elementalist / Thief — 10805 Base HP

Come somebody explain to me why there is such a huge difference between some classes? And before you say that some have better healing and/or defensive abilities: That is untrue, warriors have some of the best defensive abilities in the game and necromancers have Death Shroud. Whereas Elementalists have mist form, which completely disables them and doesn’t allow healing at all.

We can ask questions all day long but what would you suggest all classes base HP be set at?

I am sure I can punch a whole in any value that you or anyone can come up with because it isn’t that simple. Of course someone thinking will say well reduce X,Y,Z because of A,B,C then reduce the base HP because it isn’t just that simple.

Imagine a Thief starting with 15k HP a Ele starting with 18k hp.

Imagine a Warrior fighting at 10k HP or a Ranger.

So what is the Proper base HP? Is it the same across the board OR should the gap be a little less then what it is?

The major issue when the initial nerfs happened was that the other classes just weren’t good enough.

• boon stripping wasn’t viable
• other classes lacked sustain
• other classes weak to conditions
• other classes couldn’t condition pressure a ele enough

Fast forward to now and if you revert all the Ele nerfs previously then that form of Elementalist might compete with a Warrior for that role (s/tPvP) the gap between them would be very close.

Still there really was 1 build back then that was viable cantrip Ele D/D or S/D. 20 water/30 arcana. With the buffs to other classes that build would be the apex Ele build right now and I think you would possibly have the “I am pigeonholed into 1 build”.

Enter Fresh Air that opened up S/D Ele’s having a place as a burster BUT the buffs to thieves/warriors/necro’s makes it harder for S/D Ele’s to fill that role.

Really if s/tPvP is the backbone of alot of balance more game modes is the answer with different roles because then it changes the perception that there is only 5 roles.

Balance is still PvE/WvW and trying to find a role for 8 professions no matter how the PIE is sliced. The devs look across the entire game and when they get to s/tPvP they have no choice but to try and accomplish that because that is the only game mode for s/tPvP and there only 5 spots to fill.

Specifically I understand the mistform change engineers where hit with the same change to elixir S.

This thread will probably end up into RTL as many of these do but we have to remember focus and staff users.

Staff has had alot of buffs since then and is a very good weapon imo compared to what it use to be. Focus still needs love though and Dragon tooth needs a rework.

IF boon duration really matters that much to you then you can run food for +20% +6/6 rune set for +15% and 30 in your boon duration line which will give you +65% boon duration. 4pce + 2 pce split set would net you another 5% using the example from Ready up so 70% overall.

This is assuming there is no rune set that will give a overall duration to all boons I don’t think there will be and that they want more of a focus on a specific boon. Might is the boon you can slack on the most if you want to focus on another boon specifically since the duration of might is already long from blast finishers and attunement swaps etc.

Might is also the boon that is hit the hardest by less boon duration because it gains the most and loses the most duration of any of your other boons since it’s base is already large.

To really understand how much this will impact your build you need to look at the boon durations of the boons that matter to you and see how much you lose/gain.

60% – currently gives your elemental attunement boons +3 sec to prot, regen, swiftness.
45% – +2.25 for prot, regen, swiftness

Zephyr’s Boon – 60% = +3 sec
45% = +2.25 sec

Updraft = +6 sec
45% = + 4.5 sec

Armor of Earth = +3.6 for stability and protection
45% = +2.7 sec

For dps you will see the biggest hit when you try and maintain high might stacks the window of opportunity to capitalize will be shorter.

Blast finisher might = 3 stacks 20 sec(same as sigil of battle)
60%= +12 seconds
45% = +9 second

45% overall is ok for me personally on my ele. I will look at the other sets to see what actually changed because we don’t know for sure like what happened to water. I think water will be very popular as I think the condition removal chance will rise to 25% but have to see what the boon duration looks like. Right now I am looking at runes of earth for my bunker armor and runes of strength possibly for my dps armor.

Kyon.9735:

oZii.2864:

I might just try that and rename my character Zeus

Lol good idea.

But I agree, it seems like Anet’s promoting “active play” where you use your skills selectively instead of just spamming them (except Pistolwhip because Spam2Win). The irony is that most classes and builds itself work on a Rock-Paper-Scissors system which hopefully they can change.

Yea Im going to trademark “God of Thunder Build” x/30/x/x/x done!

phaeris.7604:

If thieves run the new gm instead of the heal in stealth then great. The heal whilst in stealth is far more potent.

I agree if you are fighting a decent thief you probably didn’t hit them anyway while they are in stealth. The 30 critical strikes trait isn’t going to make up the HP/s loss of shadow rejuvenation 9k backstab would pull in 450 hp and 9k is rare not the norm. The trait will make blowing up a thief you know is going for a stealth stomp alot harder to kill but I don’t think many thieves will trade it for the healing.

Something that I thought about the other day in this whole Condi v Power debate.

Many people say that condition players don’t have to sacrifice anything whereas the power players do sacrifice. A Power player gets a 916 stat headstart on a condition player. At 80 no traits no gear you have 916 power and 0 condition damage. That 916 power you start with effects how you build if you throw any defense gear on your build at all. Everyone has thresholds that they like for certain stats imagine your build -916 power. You would probably move some of your defense stat points toward power to compensate.

My ele only has 2 pieces of celestial which is helm and shoulders for ascended. It does suck for the people that crafted it that value the crit damage the most.

Everyone is getting a damage hit but I do feel for those people that went heavy celestial for the crit damage.

Thanks timebomb and rudy for the maths.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What classes rely on on crit effects to win a fight? That’s right – None.
Some people saying how this will be a huge advantage, it won’t be we will still be pumped full of conditions by pretty much every condition build so it will have no affect there.

We will be stuck in an attunement that is of little threat. The moment we leave it everyone will know to burst as hard as they can as they have have at least 10seconds of us being without it. A thief could melt us in them 10 seconds and still have a break in there.

Power builds rely on crit effects your ele relys on crits for vigor probably. Mesmers rely on crits for vigor, guardians rely on crits for vigor try playing anyone of them without vigor it is a really big difference.

Condi necros and engi rely on crit for burns. Do you have a Necro or Engi? I have both and the difference between not running your burn on crit trait and your burn on crit trait is huge!! More so for the engi then the necro but you notice the dps difference immediately.

I like you Ash but it just sounds like you don’t realize the extra depth to the combat that is there. Nobody sits in earth but everyone uses earth and ring of earth does alot of damage magnetic grasp is very strong immoblize on a short cooldown. I just can’t wrap my head around why you think stone heart is bad because earth doesn’t have fire attunement damage.