Guild Wars 2

Simon.3794:

oZii.2864:

Because they have to survive to do damage. They don’t do enough damage fast enough to trade off for being able to be pinched and die. Berserker gives you enough damage that you can go kill or be killed condition damage doesn’t do that. Why take anything that is going to kill slower then zerker but die just as fast?

conditions can kill a squishy in seconds and kills bunker way effective then power. condition builds have so many ways to stay alive then berserker, you hit the skill and you kit and wait for it to tick. and most of the skills are easy to land, aoe. condition mes, war, thief also has defensive play on their condition skills.

oZii.2864:

Ahh my reply about opinion was directed at your post to Cogbyrn you asked him to balance conditions which implies that you think conditions are imbalanced to begin with.

you think condition builds are balanced? ok then
/thread.

Exactly that was my point

Tei.1704:

I want someone to explain how conditions, a supposed attrition mechanic, can be balanced when a build that is meant to survive for long periods of time and cleanse conditions relatively frequently has more trouble with condition builds than any power build. Remember, this is about wvw, a place where people can break 2k condi damage.

I don’t know what your running I assume standard D/D 0/10/0/30/30 not sure what your wearing but with a mix of clerics gear, boon duration runes, and a little bit of soldiers mixed in I can make conditions builds a joke and fight them for a good 10 minutes I’ve dueled in that setup against engineers, necros, p/d thieves and as long as I don’t overly aggressive at the wrong time(which would happen against power builds) I can fight them forever and never die. PU mesmer is a total waste of time because they don’t put out enough pressure and my hands get tired. It takes a while but I can actually win the fight also.

If your bunker not alot of power builds can kill you that is what conditions do unbunker bunker builds but you can make your bunker build make conditions a joke.

Simon.3794:

oZii.2864:

Simon.3794:

oZii.2864:

Simon.3794:

So you can actually balance condition builds? do it then, it’s not like i’ve waited for so long to have a good condition balance. the only better condition build i would say is engineer, that’s it.

If we think conditions are fine why would we try to balance them? If we say we think conditions are fine you would probably say we are crazy or something because we don’t share the same opinion as you.

you are saying that i won’t agree with your “opinion” and kitten about it, while you are the one who disagreed about my opinion 1st? huh?

I didn’t disagree with your opinion I just said that top meta as in the top tPvP teams run only 1-2 condition builds. That’s the truth not opinion.

did i disagree with you? reread my comments.

Ahh my reply about opinion was directed at your post to Cogbyrn you asked him to balance conditions which implies that you think conditions are imbalanced to begin with.

Simon.3794:

oZii.2864:

Simon.3794:

So you can actually balance condition builds? do it then, it’s not like i’ve waited for so long to have a good condition balance. the only better condition build i would say is engineer, that’s it.

If we think conditions are fine why would we try to balance them? If we say we think conditions are fine you would probably say we are crazy or something because we don’t share the same opinion as you.

you are saying that i won’t agree with your “opinion” and kitten about it, while you are the one who disagreed about my opinion 1st? huh?

I didn’t disagree with your opinion I just said that top meta as in the top tPvP teams run only 1-2 condition builds. That’s the truth not opinion.

Simon.3794:

i dont know how they cant live longer then berserkers.
but ofc, a no condition meta would be a hell better future.

Because they have to survive to do damage. They don’t do enough damage fast enough to trade off for being able to be pinched and die. Berserker gives you enough damage that you can go kill or be killed condition damage doesn’t do that. Why take anything that is going to kill slower then zerker but die just as fast?

Simon.3794:

So you can actually balance condition builds? do it then, it’s not like i’ve waited for so long to have a good condition balance. the only better condition build i would say is engineer, that’s it.

If we think conditions are fine why would we try to balance them? If we say we think conditions are fine you would probably say we are crazy or something because we don’t share the same opinion as you.

Simon.3794:

oZii.2864:

Simon.3794:

they should just remove rabid and carrion amulet from pvp

rampager and celestial condition build should be the only viable condition build.

Top meta is 1-2 condition builds everything else is direct damage. What you suggest makes top meta 0 condition builds because they wont live long enough to matter.

i dont know how they cant live longer then berserkers.
but ofc, a no condition meta would be a hell better future.

Because they have to survive to do damage. They don’t do enough damage fast enough to trade off for being able to be pinched and die. Berserker gives you enough damage that you can go kill or be killed condition damage doesn’t do that. Why take anything that is going to kill slower then zerker but die just as fast?

This is the best thread on the entire forums!

Simon.3794:

they should just remove rabid and carrion amulet from pvp

rampager and celestial condition build should be the only viable condition build.

Top meta is 1-2 condition builds everything else is direct damage. What you suggest makes top meta 0 condition builds because they wont live long enough to matter.

Dee Jay.2460:

Just take a second and look at the trait lines. A fully-specced trait line will give you 30% Condition Duration or 300 Power/Precision/whatever stat.

The food gives 40% Condition duration. That’s the equivalent of 400 Power. Where is the food that gives 400 Power? I must have missed it.

The + Condition Duration food is insanely overpowered even compared to regular condition enhancing food. It’s like it was balanced for a different game entirely.

This is part of the problem statements like 40% condition duration = 400 Power! What?

The damage types are totally different heck every stat in the game is totally different.

Player A has +5000000% condition duration(not possible but for dramatic effect)
Player B has +0% condition duration
They proc a bleed that are both wiped after 2 seconds(the base is 4 seconds) = They both did the same damage

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Player A has 1200 + 400 power
Power Player B has 1200
weapon strength 1000
Target 2600 Armor

Player A did 1475 Backstab immediately
Player B did 1108 Backstab immediately

No stat is the same in the entire game it’s a losing argument to try to even somehow make power and condition damage the same. They aren’t the same except they do damage and that is some conditions not all. The defense isn’t the same.

Don’t know if I agree

Many popular builds slack on 1 of the main offensive direct damage stats either precision or crit damage if you can stack might easily you can slack on power. Most people slack on precision because they grab their precision modifier(either flat out modifier when x condition is met or fury uptime). Not everyone is running around in full zerker so people must be slacking on one of the offensive stats otherwise everyone would be in full zerk.

I main Ele, Engi is my most recent class but easily my second favorite class now but I have had a thief for a long time what Bombs and Insanemaniac tell you is solid. I find the best way to tell people how to fight a class is to tell them what the class can do so you know what to watch out for Bombs and Insane pretty much gave good solid advice for fighting a engi imo.

Coglin kind of does have a point usually people only post if something is bothering them not if everything is ok. Someone posts they lost to a condi build or they make another post about conditions and it is usually the same people discussing and saying mostly the same thing in a different thread me included.

There was a thread posted by a guy asking if there are these op builds out there what builds aren’t OP. It was a legit question you know what the answers where?

Any ranger build, Ele, and Meditation guardian basically anything that is usually considered weak in roaming. So if every build is OP doesn’t that make it balanced?

It is far more interesting to disagree then it is to pat each other the back and agree.

Everyone feels their point is more important then the other ones even though they are basically saying the same thing. This OP isn’t like the other 900 threads that say the same thing and have the same people debating back and forth.

I personally think anet looks at conditions like thieves people complain about them since launch(thieves). They won’t change conditions and how they work just like they havent changed thieves. They might nerf a skill here and there but they aren’t going to nerf how it functions which is what many people are hoping for.

I liked the old immobilize better you could stack it but you had to time it.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

oZii.2864:

What your bit getting ash is that necro and engi are condi based classes. If a necro made a thread complain about not having the healing ability of a ele it would be the same thing.

Necro has heals for pretty much any situation. Plus they have Deathshroud so i wouldn’t really see that being the case. Necromancer i agree is the condition class. Does that mean they should be left unchanged? No.

As for Engineer – Condition class? Really!? So the turrets and everything are what exactly? I would never call them a condition class. They have a VERY strong (in my opinion one of the best) condition builds but that doesnt mean they are a condition class.

I see some burning some immobile many condition procs ability to hybrid well. I guess I would rephrase that engi is a jack of all trades type whose arrow points a bit more toward condition.

What your not getting ash is that necro and engi are condi based classes. If a necro made a thread complain about not having the healing ability of a ele it would be the same thing.

If ele is the “condition standard” you seek then you must not know how well people can bunker.

Not bad at all I like that suggestion.

@bombsaway the problem is that it is attrition and “ability to be tanky” suggests you want the opposite for a condition build. Only 2 classes I know that get away with rampages gear that’s a warrior and mesmer, carrion was a thief thing. I mean what else is there? Toughness is a minor stat on condi gear except settlers the next step is remove toughness from them which is “see rampager and carrion”.

Also nobody is afraid of condition Eles sorry I have friends that ran it religiously but I never on any if my classes thought omg a condi ele. If you killed someone on a condi ele you could have killed them much faster on direct damage.

I agree the comparisons are silly because the damage types are totally different the defenses to them are somewhat different also but do have some similarities like dodges/blocks etc…

It’s usually not the “pro condition” group that brings dire v soldier but the “anti condition” group and then the “pro condition” group does the math for the “anti condition” .

I’ve even seen people say condi’s burst like zerker!

There wasn’t as many sets back then at release like dire but what you said holds true people didn’t understand how to build proper condition builds back then. They went damage over duration didn’t understand things like full second ticks etc.

I think most people shoot for 70+ duration now but I see people on the anti side say condi needs just 1 stat. If duration wasn’t important ppl would run risotto or something. Duration became important because cleanses where so good and you couldn’t pressure that’s when 2/2/2 lyssa, krait,afflicted became the thing, to go with pizza.

Well anyway I kind of went sidetracked but you make some good points. Yes

Yes the damage comparisons are silly I agree.

ellesee.8297:

it’s ok for a necro to have an advantage over an engi. that’s fine, but this is not the case. necros literally ALWAYS poop on engineers. there’s no room to outplay the necro. none. it’s just done. necro wins 100% of the time assuming skill level of both players are the same or similar. now compare it with something like thieves vs guardians. guardians have the advantage but a good thief can still win.

I think you are picking the wrong characters with thief v guardian I don’t see those 2 as natural counters this is also very very build dependent.

Put your guardian v mesmer and you will find that the mesmer should always win that fight running the popular builds on both classes. You go to the guardian forums and mesmer is probably the top class they have trouble with if you polled.

If you are fighting a wellomancer power necro I don’t see why you can’t win on a engi v necro. Right now wellomancer power necro isn’t popular but if there is a shift in builds then it could return.

Warrior v engi shouldn’t be much of a problem for engi. You can usually go to any of the subforums to get a idea of what class give another class troubles.

You post on the mesmer forums that you are losing to guardians and need help and you will probably get l2p.

10% crit dmg only affects crits
5% damage from force affects crit and non crit.

Aiden.6483:

Counters- A counter to conditions is burst- Kill them fast before they wear you down. But what if 15-20% lower damage on power specs lowers your damage by so much, you can no longer realistically spike down and defeat a condition based enemy?

In my opinion the current setup is balanced, and introducing ferocity to WvW as it is right now will break the balance in medium-scaled combat as well as small scale.

Finally someone who plays power gets it. You kill them before they kill you! I could go on about this particular part but this is something many people are missing when they fight a condition spec.

I don’t think the change will make people move to condition builds. I feel like roamers fall into 3 categories:

You like condition builds
You like direct damage builds
You like both depending on what your playing.

The majority of the roamer/small scale builds are direct damage. If you are solo roaming then your basically looking for 1v2’s or 1v1’s if you are group roaming with voice comms then you are either roaming but not really thinking about your comp or you adjust your comp.

When we go out in WvW we small scale roam either as all solo builds together semi organized or we actually run good group comp setups. In our focused group comps conditions are rarely a problem and we focus fire any necro from the opposing team anyway or send a specific class to take it out.

This is the same thing that applies in sPvP you have your roles and builds have counters in place and if your specific build can’t tackle something specific you send a teammate to handle it or group effort.

Many people go out small/scale group roaming with whatever they have or 1v1 dueling builds if you are organized then usually conditions aren’t a problem. Most condition builds are weak to conditions themselves except a P/D thief and a Necro, you could possibly throw a warrior in there but he has to have a bow to drop condis with cleansing ire with no target acquired.

If small scale meta actually became totally condition dominate direct damage players would just shift builds that make conditions irrelevant. Every class that I have which is all except ranger can put a build together that makes condition builds irrelevant. The problem is that those builds aren’t explored enough nobody is taking a mesmer with 30 inspiration putting it in zerk gear with shattered conditions trait because it forces them to give up traits they love. Mesmer is notoriously weak against conditions but not if you take that with menders purity.

If meta of WvW became conditions overall then you would see direct damage users running totally different builds because why worry about direct damage if everyone is running condis? In reality power rules so people still prioritize running and defending against power builds because that is what most people like and that is what most people run.

Bombsaway.7198:

Condition Damage OP? User experience may vary.

The fact is that condition damage can be OP and then in the next fight it gets countered easily. It is VERY volatile given the number of cleanses, mitigations and cures.

Too often these threads degrade into “you only need one stat” arguments that essentially point to the fact that the condition based damage dealer can also have good defensive abilities. This is true. . . but. . . .

Too often we look at maximum damage output without thinking of the reality of the amount of actual damage that gets eaten. Condition damage is far more susceptible to actually not doing all or most of its potential.

The trouble is there is no clear metric showing players how much potential condition damage they averted. I wish this would be added to the combat log. It would greatly help people start to see whether condition damage really is OP or is just perceived as if it could be OP.

Yea the combat log could definitely use some upgrades.

Dahir.4158:

Lol, even I was confused. I thought I got a power up from somewhere but then the necro appeared… I was hoping for a 1v2 in that fight tbh

If I sacrifice the Apothecary for some power stats what would I choose instead of it, Rampager’s or something?

I would go with soldier or valk or zerk, basically anything with power main stat. D/D stacks might so well that I feel like you could slack on some of the condi damage and boost your power up.

infantrydiv.1620:

One of the best NA teams is currently running a staff ele.

Apex prime

15 char

I watched it and it’s not bad a hybrid damage I would personally take some of the apothecary pieces and change them to power pieces get to about 1600 damage. Thats just me personally if I was to run something like this on ele.

Still was a good video I was confused by the necro getting all those condition on him then I saw the other necro hit it with spite.

Maugetarr.6823:

Just spitballing, but wouldn’t defiant stance overlapped too much in functionality with shelter if it had been given to guardian? I know they aren’t identical, but maybe they share too much similarity to have been thought useful.

This is my thinking also you would basically use them for the same thing though you could potentially gain more hp back with defiant on a guardian.

Im Mudbone.1437:

It’s funny that this tirade about mounts(only about the 20th thread started with the same negative responses) hasn’t been merged with all those yet. No to mounts, use the broom from gemstore if you want to ride something.

LOL I have to visit general discussion more often some of the responses in here are hysterical

Thanks dub I’ll take a look at it

Dub.1273:

The 10% they called are a joke, it’s actually 22-36% depending on your profession, build and buffs (assuming you’ve been and will stay full offensive specced). But even *if*it was just 10%, that’s a pretty huge nerf. Especially considering all the passive play-buffs anet likes to spew out, it’s probably going to kill a majority of the last few direct damage builds there are.

You have any calculations or link to show the 22-36%? Everything I seen shows 10% or less. I believe fadeway did one for all the meta guardian builds (pve) and it was 10% or less. I actually don’t think I have seen one for any of the other classes but I havent actually looked for them except ele.

Killface.1896:

Its OP in PvP you get way to much damage as bunker but it still need a big boost in PvE tricky situation for Anet to balance…

Nobody is rolling 5 out of 5 condition classes.

I couldnt tell you tbh they should give a trait for focus users. Though nobody really uses the traits for dagger or scepter that I know of staff trait is almost always taken though.

killahmayne.9518:

Zenith.7301:

Lyssa’s condi removal will be 5 conditions removed, so it will still be used. It just won’t give you all the boons in the world on top of stability as if warriors didn’t have enough stability.

With the decreases to crit damage the natural counters to healing signet warriors, which were bursty specs like D/P thief or S/D or S/P thief and maybe mesmer, warriors will actually come out stronger in this patch.

Actually poison and conditions is a better counter. Believe it or not most warriors can’t deal with condi spam very well.

This when I am on my necro the best target to Epi I found is a warrior because they don’t necessarily remove them they just deal with them.

Zerker stance is fine you should assume every warrior runs it. Identify the weapons the warrior is using and avoid the big damage while it is up because a warrior is trying to unload on a condition build while his zerk stance is up.

Malcastus.6240:

30 water will be the thing with condition cleanses and 30 arcane will likely still be the thing in TPvP. So 0/0/10/30/30 staff bunker ele will be good. That or 0/0/20/30/20 with stability to be able to stay on point. 2x Armor of Earth with lowered CD.

Hmm I don’t see it maybe glass staff with 10-20 arcana maybe 10 arcana with 30 water, but why bring a bunker staff ele?

Nike.2631:

IF, and its an ENORMOUS IF the Developers feel the need to reduce the effectiveness of Condition-based builds in PvP (and that’s clearly what we’re talking about because it is are already grossly inferior to power-based damage in most PvE encounters) it will almost certainly take the form of greater speed, variety, or accessibility to condition cleanses/counters. You can’t just nerf condition damage. That’s both a passive solution and a terrible idea in the broader context of all play modes. You can make the active counter-play to conditions more effective and more interesting.

The changes must be made to the target, not the source.

I love you Nike! One of the best posts yet offering a solid suggestion. No wild accusations, anecdotal evidence and flat numbers pulled out of the air like conditions should be nerfed by 20% without a reason except direct damage is getting nerfed by 10%. When white damage isn’t being touched at all.

I enjoyed this video

Of course they both deal the same amount of damage in a 1v1 because your target has fixed health value. A naked person does the same amount of damage in a 1v1 if that is what you are basing it on.

Yea that’s what I meant with again because I know it’s not a issue in spvp never has been. I remember when confusion was pve levels in WvW and glamour Mesmer was a thing.

I like rocket boots I tried e gun as I was learning but ended up going back to rocket boots.

Classes don’t need to be changed you need more game modes. The way the game is now with customization you can implement new game modes because everyone is flexible. If you focus the classes then you have to make modes more around those specialization.

They need something other then conquest. When they do that then customization will shine. Still there will always be a best at.

Say king on the hill mode would have different best then conquests. Just sucks there isn’t any different modes. Right now it’s just a revolving door of 5 roles 8 professions.

mrauls.6519:

Confusion needs to be toned down :|

Again? Nobody complains about confusion in spvp so I doing they do a WvW only change since it is a non factor in spvp

MiLkZz.4789:

Here my friend playing with his condi thief, just look at how fast those health bars melt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htRTuNyTIfo

The condi spikes at the beginning of this video are when he pops thieves guild with venom share. Nobody else has venom share. I don’t even know what the Thieves scale off of could never find it so I assume they have there own base power as in they probably do more direct damage then your friend does.

The middle part of the video he is with a necromancer most of the time.

I sorta watched the last part but it is the same thing the spike burst are when thieves guild is up and he venom shares thats been around forever. Before there was another decent venom people ran ambush.

Warrior is E. Honda from SF or Chun Li
Warrior is Paul Phoenix from Tekken
Warrior is Zerg 6 pool against against noobs and easy ai settings
Warrior is noobtube in COD
Warrior is buying a car with launch control so you can test your 1/4 mil or 0-60 instead of buying a manual(launch control isn’t subpar in the slightest it just does what manual does reducing the chance for error)

There isn’t nothing wrong with warrior having a low barrier of entry and it has some depth it just doesn’t have as much depth as some other classes and it’s more forgiving. This is my assumption because I don’t know for sure but it is the class to pick up and play for new players it has it written all over.

Carpboy.7145:

You can always get the best of trickery, CS, and acro with 0/30/0/20/20. Dont have to go a full 30 in either one

I enjoyed this setup also! S/D has always been my favorite thief set not a fan of the 3,3,dodge,3,3, dodge setup though. I do enjoy 30 trick because against anyone not prepared you can get a almost guaranteed kill with sleight of hand you have to be more careful in avoiding attacks but the daze on steal is very powerful imo I feel it is one of the top thief traits now.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I think this is a good opportunity to discuss why these would be a bad decision for SPvP. There are many reasons, and I think looking at them will hopefully give ANet a path forward as to how to tweak them so they can be usable and possibly also tweak other runes to be useful in SPvP.

• It further enables already very powerful builds, hurting build diversity

• The runeset itself is too powerful in its current form

It’s not moving the meta towards a more diverse play/counterplay environment. The kind of damage we want to be encouraging is direct damage right now to create a solid diversity.

There are probably more things we could consider, but I think this is a good place to start.

Your first 2 points are pretty much the same thing. Perplexity comes down to one problem it is the best dps rune set for conditions if you have interrupts. It doesn’t take long for the community to figure out what is the best to run they need to blur the lines a little bit more.

If they remove the 4 piece and say remove the 6 and it is just a confusion duration rune nobody will take it because it wont provide more condition dps then current undead, scavenging, or noble runes.

It has to have 1 of the procs at the minimum or 2 maybe at a reduced rate. I would prefer they just remove the 4 keep the 6 as is maybe up the icd to 20 secs.

I wish they would actually tool all runes to make them unique after a few months I feel like we will end up with a few rune sets for certain builds again.

Take power runes like strength instead of getting 4 stacks of might when you get hit change it to a perplex like 4 piece bonus. This gives the rune more purpose and the user a little bit more control they know they can’t get increased dps unless they are attacking.

I would prefer if all 4 piece bonuses that are “when struck” became "when you strike "except for the more defensive rune sets like earth, water, or monk. where it makes sense having it proc “when struck” Speed runes could go either way imo. I could be missing something but the only direct damage rune that is offensive minded that I could see being a issue would be rune of Air’s proc if it was changed to when you strike someone.

Some are oddball runes like infiltraition and could stay as is but it would be much better if they changed some of these when struck to when you are striking if the rune is a offensive rune.

When struck on a offensive rune just makes you question if getting struck is worth that proc it basically has to be good enough for you to be mentally ok with taking damage to get it. Then the 6 piece factors in and if it is good enough you might just take it anyway if the 4 is bad.

wildfang.9670:

use glue bomb to imbolie / cripple them then use your bomb of choice. i.e. big ol bomb.

you need to use some form of cc i.e. immobile knockdown to prevent them from moving.

I like to stack some stealth and go right behind the front line and drop bombs behind and escape out usually I’ll have to blow my block in toolkit but it’s fine and causes some chaos on front lines. Usually the first thing people do when you reveal is dodge even though you didn’t attack them directly.

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

So with the new Grandmaster for Rangers where Long Bows gets faster arrows, I wonder why don’t we have one for Staff aswell? Our projectiles are pretty slow compared to other profession’s source of damage.

By projectiles I mean, Fire 1, Air 1&3, Water 1, Earth 1&5… basically most of our autoattacks…

Everyones auto attacks with weapons that can shoot 1200 range sucks not just eles.

Not sure I don’t see 0/10/0/30/30 taking that much of a hit since it is a sustain fighter mostly. The original build was in all PVT anyway and since you could get might it worked. I think 0/10/0/30/30 will migrate to runes of strength if you are dps focused.

It is interesting idea one I haven’t heard but it totally changes the way thief plays. The problem most people have with thieves is that the thief dictates the fight. With the mobility a thief can have they can do this anyway without stealth. Your suggestion makes them much easier to kill to satisfy the crowd that hates that a thief can dictate the fight.

It puts a arbitrary icd on all the stealth traits namely shadow rejuvenation and shadows embrace I am guessing is your targets here. Hidden killer not sure how that would work? You get 100% crit chance during your entire revealed? Some might actually like that.

Overall though can’t say I’m a fan of what your suggesting here it is a major change in the way thief works. I’ll need to think it over more usually when I see a suggestion the first thing I think of is how can players abuse this which is usually what the players are looking for.

Rezzet.3614:

that so called 900 base power is made to even out with the base toughness you know so you dont hit 0s on mobs and players conditions have base damage and stack and also ignore armor so

without the 900 power toughness and vit we’d be no diferent than ambient creature

so nope invalid argument

Exactly apples and oranges was my point there but people want to use power to as a comparison to condition damage. Argument is valid there because I’m saying that comparing the 2 is impossible because they act totally different. That was the point of my post it wasn’t a for or against condition post. Just general why are we trying to compare them.

glaphen.5230:

oZii.2864:

glaphen.5230:

Well assuming 1023 condition duration in Spvp on a point against a guy swinging once a second and ignoring sigils, on crit procs, and runes
583:Burning
186:Poison
280:3 stacks of bleeding
992:7 stacks of confusion

Wow a whole 2041 damage a second and thats ignoring a TON of damage sources as you /dance. Your 50% chance to get a 2100 bomb auto attack on a lightly armored target cannot even compare with this damage with a tanky build.

Glaphen are you arguing just to argue? I checked some of your older posts and what you say here doesn’t add up to some of your posts in your history. You know your stuff on most classes from what I skimmed over so it doesn’t seem to add up unless you just like arguing with coglin.

Link please, I’ve complained about the same stuff since I started posting. Also edited the post with a pure bunker version.

I saw a post where you mentioned dhuumfire but I can’t find it

The bulk of what I read was in here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Class-balance-in-WvW-is-just-fine/page/13#post3457902
Alot of posts in here

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Warrior-Usain-Bolt

If you aren’t built for fighting condition builds and not good enough to avoid them then don’t fight someone who looks like a condition build? If you aren’t built with any mobility at all then why are you roaming?

This one is what struck me though if that is how you see it then I agree. This is basically saying if that isn’t a fight in your favor to win if you still engage and die what is the problem?

If your condition removal is weak then you die that is how it should be. When I go out on my engineer for example I don’t run a stunbreaker if I get stun chained I know that is a possibility I would die. I don’t think stuns need to be nerfed or changed because I’m running around with no stun breaker many necro builds are the same run around with no stun breaker or 1 max.

You see it all the time in WvW 2-3 people beating on a necro and his only out is plague form which usually just delays the inevitable.

The rune and sigil changes may help you recoup some of that damage.

All power/precision runes are being buffed +10 so it will be 175 power for a full 6 set instead of 165. It looks like % damage has increased for runes with strength going to 7% and eagle to 6%.

From the stream they hovered of sigil of accuracy which will now be 7% chance so I am assuming that sigil of force will also be buffed to 7% damage.