Guild Wars 2

Based off Kirtar estimates (this is all speculation right now)

a 0/10/0/30/30 (with divinity runes and the all stat food (+43 all stats and +5 critical damage) and hardened sharpening stones

+617 to all stats and +64 critical damage

Power = 1698
Critical chance = 38.14%
Critical damage = 74
Condition damage = 617 (Bleeding – 73/s, Burning 482/s)
Armor = 2453
HP= 19975

The condition damage becomes interesting a easy 6 stacks of might on ele with a sigil of battle gets you a :

535/s burn and 84/s bleed

that isn’t anything to sneeze at when you didn’t spec condition damage to begin with.

thanks kirtar for putting the estimates together.

kirtar.8453:

The critical damage difference may be even less on minor armor pieces. As an example with an existing celestial stat item, the ancient karka shell gets 3% critical damage which, according to the wiki, would be identical to all other exotic items (that actually give crit damage of course) since there’s no crit damage primary combination. There’s no guarantee that it will happen on armor as it might be 1% lower on the minor pieces, but it’s a possibility.

I made a edit on my last post but based on your post for gloves then speculating if the pattern holds true the coat would be 60 to all stats?

DiogoSilva.7089:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the celestial stats worse than divinity runes? Divinity might have a bit of every stat, but they also specialize at something: critical damage. This is excellent for elementalists, who have the arcane skills and decent access to fury and decent critical rate with divinity + a bit of precision investment, while still having decent power, decent condition damage, a good healing + toughness combo, and enough vitality for their HP not being too low.

But if I’m not wrong, there’s nothing special about celestial’s critical damage, which makes it just plain mediocre. The small magic find will be worthless to make you stronger. There’s a reason why elementalists don’t use celestial gear in pvp (or do they?). Generally, Valkyrie with divinity is much better for excellent critical damage, good healing + toughness, and strong power, and all you need is a bit of extra vitality and precision from secondary gear.

The critical damage on celestial ring for example is 6 the critical damage on ascended zerker ring is 8. It is not that much of drop off. Divinity runes give 2 critical damage per rune. If they go by the same pattern they did for the trinkets that they did for armor you will get less critical damage than berserker which is 5 on the coat. My guess is you will get 3 critical damage on a all stat coat.

From my knowledge nobody uses a celestial ammy in sPvP. It is the valk ammy or soldier like you said.

I think you are right about the runes it does still specialize in critical damage. It will be interesting if the stat combo is good adding equal amount of toughness with vitality is why PVT is popular. This would be doing the same but to a lesser extent.

Based on kirtar’s post the coat should be about 60 to all stats?

If we just speculate on the possibilities

Right now say you want to go damage glass you get zerker.

Zerker gloves would be

34 Power
24 precision
2 critical damage

The stat combination to all stats would have to be extremely terrible to not want all stat over zerker’s gloves.

20 to all stats and 1 critical damage is not going to be better for direct damage compared to zerker but it won’t be far behind. If you look at combined damage of direct and the condition damage you will add to your direct damage I would say it would be really close in terms of dps.

The attack stat in the hero panel is your power + your condition damage its irrelevant to most people if they know it or not unless you can apply the condition damage with your direct damage regularly which a ele can a sword warrior can do the same also since they can get bleeds on reliably with sword.

I don’t know the actual stat allocation but I think this will be really good for elementlist. I think it will also cause the price of divinity runes to drop down.

If you can get points to all stat from gear to equal what you get from divinity runes then I can’t see the price saying as high as it is.

I run all stat trinkets I just wish I knew the stat allocation for each piece but there is no info on that yet.

I can’t really see taking any other kind of armor except celestial to be optimal for ele it starts to add up when you can put 500+ burn ticks on someone and your not even specced for condi damage. I have 399 base burn no might. The healing is meh we know 1:1 it scales well for certain abilities but I always felt its the frequency to which the ele heals as the strength no so much the healing power though every little bit does help.

http://dulfy.net/2013/07/08/gw2-quartz-crystals-and-celestial-recipes-guide/

Celestial is an all stats combo, something previously only found on Ascended gear. Recipes for Celestial insignias/inscriptions can be found randomly in kite baskets (low drop rate) or as guaranteed drops from Zephyr Sanctum Supply Boxes (Since each Insignia/Inscription requires 5 Charged Quartz Crystal, you will need to wait 5 days before you can make one).

I am just glad this stat combo is being introduced it will be interesting to see how people react to it but if you a stat 25 to all stats on gloves I can’t see why you wouldn’t want the gear. Even if its 20 to all stats on gloves and 1 critical damage I can’t see why you wouldn’t take that over anything else thats out there.

I know this will be time gated so people wont be running around with celestial everything 2 hours after patch

I been running this on my mesmer since patch I have after falling in love with the potential of the new block.

I run it exactly the same as you layed it out even the manipulation skill trait.

I tried different combinations boon duration runes, prot runes blah blah, runes of lyssa, 2 runes of mad king (insert random other rune)

In the end I run runes of undead the extra condition damage is good and you get to 2.9k armor.

The difference in what I run and you is I run giver scepter and torch.

There is no doing it wrong lmao. Run how you like I like undead and the only other rune I would honestly use other than undead is full lyssa.

Lyssa gives the precision for bleed on crit and vigor on crit synergy and condition duration and full wipe of condi.

Either way run what you like I do run arcane thievery with decoy and blink its alot easier to get remove condi with arcane with the help of stealth imo. You can also target some random mob to wipe in a emergency.

This build is good and alot of fun I been running it since the patch I would suggest rabid condi lovers give it a try.

Nice write up.

PS: Why do people always want to say a build is broken OP because you can 1vX on it? The build is good you can 1vX on many mesmer builds this build doesn’t make you invincible. Run into a necro in a 1vX that will load you up on condi and corrupt boon you and you will see how broken/op this build is not its just a good build.. kk that was my rant.

Tyreal.5230:

oZii.2864:

Sheva how you been still have you on my contact list. Your on FA now? I have a ele now enjoy it alot. Gonna sub and watch.

Sin? :O it’s been a while, actually i think we might’ve fought last night. so maybe it hasnt been long (i saw a thief with Incenerator and GH tag). How’s Ehmry Bay and GH holdin up? If u see a D/D ele commander with a flower and VeT tag it’s me. ^^
And thk u so much for the sub.

Wash’t me I gave my incinerator to my Ele.

Or maybe another suggestion is since the attunements are what receive the cooldown reduction traits then the reduction is different depending on the weapon set.

They keep RTL as is now then aeromancer’s alacrity become something like.

Air Weapon skills recharge Faster: Main Hand dagger(20%)Off-hand dagger(50%) Staff (25%)focus(30%)

That way dps eles go 20 air get a even faster RTL recharge if they hit (thats the reward) they also aren’t 20 in water. Bunker eles would need to go 20 air to get the mobility but also being a bit weaker to conditions if they do so.

This could be applied to all the x Weapon skills in each attunement as the Devs see fit.

If they applied to fire for example this would make that trait more attractive being able to have faster up time on fire etc while also helping focus which has long cd’s on the fire skills which don’t make sense to me.

Just a suggestion I think could work with a bit more thought to it. It just popped into my head.

There seems to be 2 sides.

Dps elementalist

D/D elementalist (everyone assumes d/d eles are bunker)

The ol’school bunker D/D ele build was PVT. Some people mixed clerics or went full clerics.

The popular D/D bunker build was PVT mostly.

I agree with ARM to an extent the change to mist form did alot to nerf D/D ele’s. You would mist and heal up with nothing they could do about it.

Healing has been nerfed in sPvP for signet of restoration. So healing did get nerfed already the mist form nerf was a direct nerf to how effective Ether renewal was for burst healing.

Some of the suggestion in here though for more nerfs just to get RTL back to what it use to be might be a case of “careful what you wish for” in how it impacts how other people play the game which will lead to new threads about how the class is dead, how its underpowered etc for different reason.

Some warriors asked for help with conditions but nerf warrior damage.

What happened is Warrior got their damage nerfed and help with conditions. You can’t run the 2 major traits that almost every warrior took anymore and also get the new condition removal trait. You also can’t run what use to be the most popular traits anymore and put more than 10 points in anything else.

The middle ground is go with something like 25 secs on miss 15 on hit that way nothing get’s nerfed for the sake of just RTL.

@Fishbait

I have seen them say anything about nerfing S/?

The burst S/? builds where mentioned in the last SOTG. Everyone said its good, the dev said do you think its to much. Nobody said it was to much. Zombify said its crazy but I think its good.

FGS was mentioned in Izzy’s video he said thakittens interesting that people use it for mobility instead of damage. He admits that he uses it for the samething also. Said he recognizes its a trade off. They said they talked about FGS from a balance perspective. You can take that how you want.

I watch the video and took away more that FGS isn’t good enough to be used for more than mobility.

Hey Sheva I see @11:45 you are fighting that beefy Guardian from Dragonbrand with the candy cane hammer. I could never catch it 1v1 usually in a group but he definitely is a tough kill

Or I understand what Trade means and you don’t.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Oh look that thief just murdered you through protection because you were busy doing some petty dance instead of actually trying to fight him.

You’re a terrible player and have no idea how elementalists work so please stop posting your illogical bullkitten all over this board.

Also, *You’re welcome

You have terrible tunnel vision. I know you want to try to discredit/attack me but at least make a good counter first.

I know you like to post things like Fire = Steam = Smoke rofl give ele stealth!!

The fact that a thief can still kill you while you have protection up has nothing to do with the fact that you can keep protection up!

The conversation was about elementalist having protection up not if you can still die while you have protection up. lmao

The application of having protection up in a fight 100% is different. You can still keep it up in a fight 100% (assuming it isn’t removed) if you wanted to it wouldn’t require much thinking .

Trade = Job = Role!!

That’s what Jack of all trades means.

How you do the Trade doesn’t matter.

A thief goes dps: The dps = Job/Role/Trade

According to the OP (read the op) he is saying that Trade = How you dps, how you bunker.

Warrior going DPS – Thief going DPS = Role/Job/Trade the fact that a Warrior does DPS different than a Thief does DPS is irrelevant. They both are there for DPS.

If someone asks you what your professional trade is you don’t tell them what tools you use and leave the rest blank. You tell them what your job is.

Example so you can understand:

Mark just met John and asks him what he does for a living.

(John is a Police officer)

Mark “Hey buddy what is your Trade Profession?”

John “Oh I use a Glock, a Car, Handcuffs, Reports, C.B. Radio”

Mark “Oh cool bro, well I use a truck, axe, ladders, fire resistant gear”

Aether McLoud.1975:

LOL you can’t keep protection up “almost indefinitely”. You could for 1 or 2 days when magnetic grasp was bugged but that was fixed very swiftly.

Then you have terrible rotations or something. You can keep protection up pretty easily.

Swap to earth out of earth,

Go water for frost aura, Air for shocking aura, out of air into fire. Wait for Earth to come back up swap to earth. Swap out of earth into water (because shocking aura will be the first aura to come back up) Swap to fire when its of CD back to earth air should be coming back up Swap to air Shocking aura repeat.

I just taught you how to keep protection up almost permanently (thats without adding in armor of earth or fire aura) this is just standing around doing nothing.

Your welcome

Aether McLoud.1975:

Heal isn’t a role. Every class can be bunker or damage. And no ele cannot be both at the same time. So your argument is invalid.

Do you read? The OP is claiming not jack of all trades. How you damage doesn’t have anything to do with the “trades”. How you bunker doesn’t have anything to do with the “trade”.

Your trade is your job – If your job is to do damage then you specced for damage and thats the role = job = trade you are filling. The skills you use to do your Job=Trade=Role has nothing to do with the Trade portion of “Jack of all Trades”

Grab a thief and go bunker tell me how that works dropping aggro in stealth is not bunker.

Put 10 point in earth for Prot on auras go stand anywhere.

with 60% boon duration you can keep protection up almost indefinitely thats without throwing in fire aura(this is for d/d) if you throw in armor of earth you can have protection up permanently. If you take water skills recharge faster it makes it even easier. Same can be said about air skills recharge faster if you wanted to go perma protection.

The “trades” is the role you can be in not the means to how you achieve it rofl.

You – heal, damage, bunker. Those are the trades smh.

You have to focus on the issue you guys keep throwing more and more hats into the ring to make the case against 1 class.

Argument is brought up that Elementalist need higher base stats to match a Mesmer.

Then on the other hand guardian is brought up because it does more damage being tanky than a Elementalist but a Guardian has lower base HP than a mesmer, that’s not brought into the discussion because it doesn’t prove the persons point.

You need to look at the class on its own merit it’s skills on their own merit. You can’t pick and chose the counter argument of “X class can do this” thats stacking the deck against the elementalist.

You can take any class in the game and make a case for buffs for that class using other classes to support your argument.

Its easy

Mesmer needs stability OMG! – Warriors, Elementalist, Guardian, Rangers all have easy access to stability what do we get? 2 secs on a mantra nobody cares about mantras!

Thief needs 1200 range – OMG we are the only class that doesn’t have 1200 range (see every class in the game)

Thief omg my support sucks why can’t I haz phat healz! – See Guardian, elementalist, even warriors can get phat healz with shouts and banners! They should allow you to load water bullets into pistol so we can shoot people with support!

Rangers OMG we are rangers the word Range is in our name but we are the worst ranged class – (see every other class except thief)

Guardians – OMG why do warriors have so much HP I have to spec to get more HP why is my base HP as low as a elementalist who is a cloth class! OMG. Why can’t I go full zerker like Warriors (sPvP, WvW) Why do I have to spec heavier in healing power than a elementalist!

Mesmer – OMG I need out of combat swiftness I mean Thieves move around alot, Warriors are faster than us and do more damage, Elementalist have swiftness. We Need Moar swiftness access.

Warrior – I need sustain I mean ele’s have protection, mesmer get protection easily, guardians have protection. I mean I’m a melee class I’m front lines baby! I need prot! Why don’t I get protection when I’m melee?

SilverUniverse.7103:

oZii.2864:

There are no smoke fields in the game that do damage for any class.

there’s two
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder (it’s also a projectile finisher)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Water_%28jellyfish%29

Aether McLoud.1975:

Fire -> Steam -> Smoke

that should be
fire -> stuff burning -> smoke
because, you know, when stuff burns… it makes smoke

oZii.2864:

Or you’re suggesting that Anet completely change what fire fields do so that they now cause damage instead of blinding? Or you’re suggesting that fire fields now grant smoke instead of burning people, giving fire auras and granting might? Or you’re suggesting that fire fields burn people and have smoke so that they also blind people if you leap through them you get stealth.

or just have a field that only makes projectiles that pass through miss and isn’t a combo finisher (which would suit the defensive style of focus, although it would be exactly the same as swirling winds)
or just have a better skill for focus #4 on fire that could be anything other than a single fire aura on 40s cooldown

oZii.2864:

Next you will be asking for earth skills to create mud fields in water.

actually i think the concept of Murky Water was meant to be some kind of mud field, or at least dirt being kicked up in the water to create a field that nobody can see in. since smoke fields already exist and suit the description of a field in which nobody can see in, they made the skill a smoke field. and Anet aren’t going to make a special field for one skill on one class

No the field itself doesn’t do damage!

If I lay ring of fire down and you walk over it you will burn. If you walk into a smoke field you blind.

Black powder does damage because you shoot a projectile the field itself doesn’t do damage.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Fire -> Steam -> Smoke

Your thoughtless comment amuses me.

Brb let me go boil water and make smoke!!! lol

The thoughtless belongs you because you didn’t think about that at all. You think it sounds cool so hey lets do it!!!

Your suggestion means that every fire field in the game has to be changed in behavior. You totally thought about that.

You also totally thought about ele’s very large amount of AOE’s and that a suggestion like that is dumb because you would get revealed debuff all day long.

Its like a thief running off hand pistol and smoke screen utility laying the fields down to get stealth while spamming cluster bomb in close proximity to a enemy. .

This is one of those the grass looks greener on the other side suggestions.

Next you will be asking for earth skills to create mud fields in water.

Fire fields to create steam in water followed by elementalist should have access to grenades like engineers

Aether McLoud.1975:

Thieves and Mesmers can stealth through class mechanics.
Engineers, Rangers and Elementalists underwater can stealth trough combo fields.

It’s a logical conclusion that if you want to buff fire for eles that giving them a smokefield would be a valid choice because it’s already there underwater.

How in the world is that a logical conclusion to buff fire because elementalist have a smoke field in Earth underwater.

Can you elaborate on how you came to this logical conclusion of underwater combo field from earth attunement = buff fire with smoke fields?

There are no smoke fields in the game that do damage for any class. So you want to buff fire by giving it smoke fields that just blind? Or you’re suggesting that Anet completely change what fire fields do so that they now cause damage instead of blinding? Or you’re suggesting that fire fields now grant smoke instead of burning people, giving fire auras and granting might? Or you’re suggesting that fire fields burn people and have smoke so that they also blind people if you leap through them you get stealth.

Yea ok thats going to happen.

Do you have a thief?

Ele’s have access to so much AOE on their weapons that the stealth would be worthless.

How would they implement this or are you just throwing a suggestion out there and didn’t think about it?

Lets assume(this is never going to happen)

NEW TRAIT: Smokey Blaze – Blast and Leap finishers through fire fields now grant stealth instead of might and fire aura.

So I lay a ring of fire down, I dodge roll for evasive arcana from earth I am now stealth. It would be so easy to get revealed debuff on a elementalist I am sure most people would prefer might stacks.

Raven.9603:

Why? Really?

Elementalists often spec for healing. Elementalists were being used as healing roamers. Essentially, they would RTL into a fight, healing ripple, dodge, trident, cleansing wave, and RTL back out. RTL is not effected by movement impairing effects, so there was no stopping it. In particular, this made 5 ele teams brokenly OP. It also effected WvW, because ele’s were “zerg breakers”, charging into a zerg, causing chaos, and RTL’ing back out.

Classes with similar or better mobility to the ele cannot heal group mates the way that ele can, and classes with similar or better mobility cannot “zerg break” because their escapes are effected by movement impairment (or in the thiefs case, they lack the fortitude).

Anet decided DPS roamers were okay but healing roamers were game breaking, so they reduced an ele’s ability to do so. It’s still very possible to do though.

The counter that some will say is that RTL nerfed affected D/D eles that didn’t build bunker.

Icarus.1728:

Tried your build, and it seems fun. Worked amazing against first few kills yesterday and a few today. Issue I am running into is the fact that mobility is crap, and the condition removal in this game is way over the top. 90% of my fights I do the combos and they just remove or are immune to the damage from them. After about 5 second the combos are gone and I am left doing a bleed tickle-fest for about 30 seconds.

Ran into a thief that was d/d too that healed through all the stacks of conditions in 1 stealth. o.O Same thing with Ele and Gaurdian, insta-removal in 1-2 skill combos, then they just nuke your face.

Any ideas on working around it? Love the build idea, just getting frustrated at the seemingly endless amount of healing and condition removal.

Edit: I am running full Apothecary and a combo of Givers and Apothecary on weapons. I added some Runes of the Undead to get more toughness and re-roll the heavy push of toughness into the build again. Currently at 15.5k health, 1.7k toughness, 800 condition (1200 buffed – 1500 in fight) and about 700 healing. I can hit people hard and take a beating because of the healing, just getting face rolled against 2-3 people or against condition removal like Ele.

Well the is kind of a problem with the build. Its venom focused but the problem is venoms take up utility slots so if you want ore mobility then you have to chose which venom you think is worth running. Skale is direct burst up front condition spider is slow killer.

You could slot SB to get some mobility if you do that I would take quick recovery.

loseridoit.2756:

Phaeton.9582:

I can’t tell if everyone in this thread is trolling, but FYI trying to get pvp warriors nerfed is like trying to make Christmas illegal..

Well, all class forums have thread like these. The only difference is warrior have a areason to call themselves underpowered but the rest of the classes shouldnt complain as much

However, Rangers should get a look at to bring better group utility. Rangers are kinda useless in dungeons

These threads in all the class forums usually turn into but the grass looks greener on the other side.

There is a thread running around I saw here asking for changes to skills that would give elementalist stealth through combo finishers o.O.

Asurmir.7956:

Airwolf, having more health wont solve the problem of being able to defend said health. Guardians have the same base health, but it feels like they have more because of their armor and upkeep of aegis and protection.

This ^^ most guardians are running around with like 14k-15k health alot of times spec heaving healing, healway build which is a popular guardian build in WvW for roaming 1v4 type of build usually has 1k healing power on top of about 3k toughness.

The difference is that guardians healing tree is also its toughness tree. Warriors toughness tree is also healing, Same with thieves.

As a comparison Mesmers vitality is also the healing tree just like elementalist.

Demon.5082:

Stealth.9324:

I believe we are the only class that uses our Elite skill just for escaping.

Not true. I use my elite on my mesmer (though its works much better).

DiogoSilva.7089:

The power of a profession is determined by its entire build, not a single skill. It’s perfectly normal that some skills are better than others, without making the profession overall stronger. An elementalist is much stronger than a warrior in pvp, for example.

Also, RTL is a more reliable escape skill because it is not affected by chill and cripple slowdown.

But a warrior can break immobilize and reduce the duration of chill/cripple. Not to mention they can wipe conditions clean with a signet and change weapons or use a utility for another gap opener (sword/bulls charge). Our only spec that comes near their mobility is D/D pre RTL nerf. I am not saying warriors are great in pvp, but their mobility is much better than ours even if RTL was on a 20 second cd.

I would accept the currently RTL if it made you immune to immobilize/chill/cripple (they should be removed when you use RTL and should not be applied to you when your in lightning form).

The trait that Warriors just received Elementalist had it first Geomancer’s freedom 20 points in Earth trust me its there. I am pretty sure warriors are probably meant to have more mobility than Elementalist its just something you guys are going to have to live with. I wouldn’t say they blow elementalist out of the water but it is pretty close.

Movement skills break immobilize is a decent trait but its just like attuning to water to remove a condition. Its also very conditional as it only effects 1 condition.

You mention d/d is the spec if you want that mobility if you want the movement skills break immobilize and the mobility that your talking about a Warrior has to go 10 in defense 20 in discipline.

If they run those mobility traits then go put on a Bow and a Rifle no mobility? If they put on a Axe and shield no mobility? Mace? Hammer?

Not every warrior is running around with a GS and Sword/shield. If that is the case as you perceive it then Warrior could make the same claim that their only mobility is GS and Sword/Shield.

The grass does sometimes appear greener on the other side but this is not the case with warriors.

Umm so I found the video with izzy. It isn’t super doom and gloom inevitable nerf some of the posts seemed to insinuate.

FGS – He said looking into like Lord Byron said

Mobility – Izzy said we don’t want it to be the fastest profession but the ele does need mobility. You have seen us start to trim some of that down and we feel that we are satisfied with where its at.

Arcana and Water – Basically said looking at other considerations so that people don’t feel like they have to take them. Example given is Fresh Air trait.

I didn’t take anything as far as FGS was getting nerfed more like its interesting that people use it for mobility and we talked about it. Nerf could come but it could also mean that the other skills on FGS need to be better so you use some charges for straight damage. Acknowledge that it is interesting people use it more for mobility and that it is also a trade off.

The mobility thing sounds like they are finished messing with Ele’s mobility. If he said they feel its in the spot they want it then I can’t see them ever changing RTL back to how it use to be.

I definitely didn’t take anything about arcana or water being nerfed sounds like fresh air is something they are watching to see how it goes. So if anything I would think its possible there might be a fire equivalent in the future if they like how fresh air works out. At the least thats what I took from the video.

He pretty much addresses all this in the last about 6 minutes of the video if anyone wants to look at it themselves.

I just can’t see them touching water and arcana except for them to make it recharge longer or something weird.

Water is fine imo they did hit up bountiful power with a nerf. That could be looking into water thing Byron mentioned.

BTW what podcast are you guys talking about?

really? K first you guys should get clarification as to were the OP is using the build.

When you have a organized team with people filling specific roles then you can get away with glass. Cause you know you can say “Hey Dude I have a thief on me” or “Can someone drop healz” in voice chat.

If your up in hot join you better type that out before the match starts.

In WvW its different kind of you can go glass sure if you want to be instagib and always have to pick your fights then sure it can work. If you are rolling with a group over voice comms or they know you are squishy and can die to burst in a sec then you it can work.

Not all builds that work in sPvP work in WvW and vice versa. (See P/D condi theif and no hot join crap doesn’t count thats a free for all deathmatch most times.) Anyways Zoose build can work if you adjust some gear lower damage some to get some survivability.

Remember you don’t get a 100 power 10 crit damage in sPvP. So there should be no problem shaving 100 power 10 crit damage from your build for survivability. Through gear combos you can get higher crit damage than you can in sPvP so there is another place to look for survivability.

Nikkinella.8254:

Am I the only one who likes runes of Rage? They seem to be working pretty good for me so far and they’re pretty cheap.

Never tried them I can’t see why you would need them since fury is easy to maintain. I was just messing around with naked with just 30 arcana and I could keep fury up the whole time. I guess if you want them I suppose use them but they aren’t more dps than Ruby orbs.

I would say though that when/if they ever fix runes of strength I will seriously consider going a full 6 piece set. The dps on those is comparable to ruby orbs.

Splitting hairs/min max really is the question here.

Boon duration runes = build up damage.

You have to get it going then its there as in a long drawn out fight etc.

If your looking at dps like orbs or ogre then you have access to more damage upfront than a boon duration ele.

Illusion.1807:

I think the original intention of this thread is more about being sarcastic than really wanting to nerf warrior. As you mentioned, eles used to have sustain and mobility, but now both are nerfed. While most eles agree bunkers eles should be nerfed to some extent, they don’t want to lose mobility because it is also essential for aggressive eles builds and fun.

The point is of the thread is that the nerf on eles mobility is not necessary. Warrior is just a way to sarcastically illustrate the point.

I don’t understand the whole bunker eles should be nerfed to some extent point. Its gear that makes you a bunker. The spec itself is the traits and the traits arent what make it bunker if that was the case then everyone would run zerker and be golden because then they would have 80+ crit dmg, 90% crit chance and sustain. All while sitting around 14k hp. o.O

A bunker guardian can use the same weapons as a full zerker guardian just like damage specced eles can use the same weapons as bunker specs.

I can go 30 strength 30 arms 10 discipline on my warrior but if I strap him up in all soldier gear with a GS and a Axe/shield I definitely wouldn’t call him a DPS warrior.

If I go 30 deadly arts, 30 critcal strikes, 10 trickery D/D on my thief but put him in all clerics he isn’t a dps thief.

Here is another thought I think most people would probably agree that Guardians are the best support profession in the game.

Most would probably agree that Elementalist are the second best support/healing profession in the game.

If the roles changed and Elementalist became the best support/healing profession in the game would that make you happy? Since you don’t like it being jack of all trades if it was best at something not damage for arguments sake would that satisfy?

Really what are the roles in this game? Damage, Bunker/Tank, Healer/Support

PvE – Damage is king, if you have a guardian you are golden if you don’t have a guardian then you would probably want a elementalist next.

PvE is fairly simple so look at WvW.

You have damage dealers a warrior is king of damage but in sPvP because they can’t sustain it doesn’t matter. The more sustain warrior get the less damage they will do. Thief is next on the damage chart but its single target they serve the purpose of damage assassination pick out the hard targets pressure the bunkers. Those 2 classes have no other roles in sPvP.

In WvW warrior and thief still top of the damage charts thats what they do best. Then you see a warrior still can’t sustain if they receive focus fire usually they are done. Thief still fills that role on assassination and ganking thats about it. You see many full clerics thieves running around? Most of the thieves skills are pretty much self sustain in WvW. The best support build is venom share which means they give up utility slots to give up to 5 people venoms in a 300 radius.

So what does being the best at damage in this game get you? Roles as Gankers/assassination. Even the warrior is pretty much doing that go in do damage run out. Even with a rifle they aren’t providing any cc capabilities they are picking off single targets like a sniper again assassination.

The you have Support in WvW. Support Guardians and Eles and engis provide probably the best support in WvW. They have heals and CC. I don’t see alot of thieves running around setting traps while being invisible providing CC.

There is no middle ground if you really wanted to pick some kind of middle ground then I would say Mesmer is also versatile but leans more toward dps. Ele is versatile but leans more toward support.

Guardians can be dps(ish) like ele but still lean toward support through heals and boons.

cheshirefox.7026:

Durzlla.6295:

if they wanna merge the Crits cause burn trait and deal more damage to burning foes trait that’s be awesome!
PS: for the love of god buff that minor adept {earth} trait Anet =D

yeah, something to consider.. i notice the minor traits in master tier cause at-location blasts for fire and earth.. air is highly inconvenient outside of pvp as it causes an at-target or a find-target lightning strike.. really, annoying when you attune to air and enter combat mode from some nearby ambient creature z_z
i think in the fire trait line they might want to switch adept minor with master minor.. as elems not heavily using the fire trait line would want the at-location blast and the players sinking traits into burning would have <flame barrier> accessible to them as they climb the fire trait line

I can see this suggestions premise but I think the point of all the adept minors is synergy with lingering elements. I believe all of them work except earth (which would be great if it did). If they did that for fire they would probably have to do it for all of them. Then if they did switch them those adepts would not be good master minors at all.

I like to use staff when its siege time or when I do GvG but I get the impression that staff isn’t a direct damage weapon really. Its like mesmer staff looks like a condition weapon but it benefits the most from power.

Ele staff seems to come off to me as CC with some damage options but its main purpose is CC. I do feel like ele cc on staff is definitely not poor like someone said.

Lava font is easily dodge Ill agree there earth 2 is easily dodged but it has decent range despite what the animation shows.

When I do put on staff I usually go air for air 5, attempt a air 3. Then to earth for earth 5 with earth 2. Water I go water 2 then water 4. Fire I usually use auto attack with fire 3 lava font is for downed people or clumped groups same with meteor shower or I use meteor shower for some area denial/damage foes that are charging in.

When I use staff many of the attacks I attempt to predict the enemies movement this is usually zerging or GvG type of stuff. Many fields I lay behind the enemy because people attempt to retreat.

Major Kaldash.3542:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Kronosfear.7548:

Badly structured argument by OP.

It’s almost laughable that an ele would complain about a warrior he can’t catch.

I mean if my enemy would run away I’d say cheers for me since I sent him away and couldn’t manage to fight toe-to-toe with me.

But noooooooooooo!

Someone just had to satisfy their need to pound that hunk of armor.

This thread might get locked down since it’s not even putting out a constructive, worthy discussion, which is good.

I like your way of thinking if they run then that’s good

Isn’t that the same reason people were QQing and posting nerf threads about RTL was because it allowed eles to run away?

I don’t think people posted they really want to nerf warriors. They just want RTL cd reduced since they nerfed the real reasons the ele was over the top, that being cantrips and some water traits, in the last couple of patches.

RTL pre nerf made elementalist kings of mobility the devs have stated that they wanted thieves to be kings of mobility. Warriors and Eles come in second as it stands now. I do feel that 40 secs is a bit to long or give it back the 1500 range. I think that would be fair.

I’d like to see 25 secs on miss 15 seconds on hit. It really doesn’t do alot of damage seems about the same as lightning whip so it really is a gap closer/escape skill. With a lower cd at 25-30 secs on miss it would make reduction in air skill recharge a little more attractive.

Razor.6392:

14k hp 1k toughness

I’m suicidal but I like BIG numbers.

Rofl dat glass but I bet you see some decent numbers on that though. You run S/D?

Right now I have 636 healing 1.7k toughness = 2658 armor.

I actually use sigil of life as my stacker most times I do have a bloodlust dagger also but I feel I do decent damage so the extra healing works when I get 25 stacks of life then I put on the force dagger.

Wanted to ask and get a idea from the forums how much HP you guys like to run with.

For PvE,WvW, and s/tPvP

Personally I roll with about 16.5k – 17k. I have slowly been cutting down on vitality to 16.5k currently wanted to know how much you guys like to have and what you feel is to much or to little?

I mostly WvW so I feel cutting down on HP is ok because the scaling on vitality is high since 1 point of vitality = 10 hp with WvW bonus it gets to high for my liking though healing effectiveness is increased it doesn’t scale like vitality does.

I changed a few things went back to 20 points in deadly arts trying that out now. I still have 100% duration so the biggest hit is not having the extra strike of venom. I’m trying full apothecary atm the dps loss is actually not that much between full carrion. Its about 4 damage on a build in full carrion armor and full apothecary (this is just armor) I’m trying out the shadow protector trait with shadow rejuve to see how I like it.

The next SoTG is tomorrow so it will be interesting to see how they feel the changes have gone and future changes.

I just can’t see them not touching fire trait line at all when everyone knows it was the worst line.

To the person that said nobody is complaining about ele’s go to the mesmer forums and look at the thread about patch discussion merged. Somehow the ele came up in that discussion on the last few pages. Specifically how we heal so much and have awesome defenses begins to compare blurred frenzy with arcane shield.

The ele is brought up alot by other professions on the forums when they talk about why their main class doesn’t have this but ele has this and this.

Just from the forums I frequent (professions I play) the theme is many classes are in envy of something another class gets. These aren’t 1 page full of threads saying the same thing but it definitely comes up often.

Warrior complaint threads use – Guardians or Elementalist to make their case because we have better sustain than them.

Elementalist complaint threads refer to – thieves because they can burst

Mesmers – want out of combat mobility usually referring to thieves or elementalist or warriors

Thief complaint threads – usually lack of support options come up. Now it’s more we have not 1200 range option like X profession.

I don’t go on other forums much since I don’t play those classes but I do come to the forums alot to each professions sub section these examples are usually the ones to pop up the most.

I would vote dragons claw for projectile finisher not sure why it isn’t.

Aether McLoud.1975:

oZii.2864:

loseridoit.2756:

oZii.2864:

Yea I agree I haven’t played my warrior alot lately I did redo my build with the new patch. Messed around with it a bit. Warrior is fun damages until you realize you spend alot of time using your whirlwind, rush, savage leap, and bull rush defensively to get out of fights than you do to actually do any damage with them.

i like playing underpowered classes in pvp

hmmmm, wvwvw is another story

overpowered food buffs does make all classes viable

i should start leveling my warrior

Warrior is fun in WvW if you build it for roaming you can do reasonably well. I feel like ele is still better at roaming. Classes capable of roaming successfully are the classes I lean toward. I don’t really spec super damage or all glass on my warrior 2.9k toughness while still having over 2k power, 2.3k power if I run signet of might.

I did at one point have a setup pre patch with 2.4k power, 3k armor, 55% chance to crit w/76 crit damage.

Warrior was better at roaming than ele even before all the RTL nerfs…

You mean running? Roaming is going in to engage 1vX on a warrior you have to carefully pick your 1vX’s not saying it can’t be done but it is much more limited than on a ele.

On my ele now Ill fight go in 1v2 or 1v3 for most I come across. On my warrior there is definitely more limitations on what to engage.

Warrior doesnt have enough aoe so your kind of forced to focus 1 target while someone else is free casting your health away on ele you have enough sustain and skills to disrupt more than 1 person.

Nikkinella.8254:

I really wish they would actually read some of the suggestions people make on the forums of how to balance the class. most of the time it seems like they just have a monkey throwing darts at something on the wall to pick out what to screw up on us next. Good idea, but most likely they wont see it. they tend to go to the thief forum for suggestions on how to balance us, which is usually “i’m a noob playing a godmode class who can’t win by spamming 22222, stealth, 2222. Please fix this. Nerf ele some more!” And that’s how they balance us.

They actually do if you go to the warrior forums the remove conditions for adrenaline use came from the forums as well as 1 or 2 other traits suggestions that warriors received. They also got the damage nerf they asked for to go along with it.

At the OP if they changed that adept minor on earth to what you suggested I would drop 5 points from water for that trait.

loseridoit.2756:

oZii.2864:

Yea I agree I haven’t played my warrior alot lately I did redo my build with the new patch. Messed around with it a bit. Warrior is fun damages until you realize you spend alot of time using your whirlwind, rush, savage leap, and bull rush defensively to get out of fights than you do to actually do any damage with them.

i like playing underpowered classes in pvp

hmmmm, wvwvw is another story

overpowered food buffs does make all classes viable

i should start leveling my warrior

Warrior is fun in WvW if you build it for roaming you can do reasonably well. I feel like ele is still better at roaming. Classes capable of roaming successfully are the classes I lean toward. I don’t really spec super damage or all glass on my warrior 2.9k toughness while still having over 2k power, 2.3k power if I run signet of might.

I did at one point have a setup pre patch with 2.4k power, 3k armor, 55% chance to crit w/76 crit damage.

Yea I agree I haven’t played my warrior alot lately I did redo my build with the new patch. Messed around with it a bit. Warrior is fun damages until you realize you spend alot of time using your whirlwind, rush, savage leap, and bull rush defensively to get out of fights than you do to actually do any damage with them.

I feel like on my warrior I have to come across the right composition to engage. On my ele there really isn’t a wrong group comp that I can’t engage or class I feel like I need to turn around and walk away (closest would be mesmer)

Aether McLoud.1975:

oZii.2864:

Aether McLoud.1975:

oZii.2864:

Fishbait.6723:

Try this as an ele, more then likely you`ll just get 1-2 stuns & die
That & the speed/gap he creates is waaaay more then RTL/Staff 4 gives you…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=anDVv6CvFTY#t=663s

Have any of you ever played a warrior?

Everything thing he did there could have been done since launch he doesn’t have any of the new traits that warriors have except the 25% movement speed with melee weapons. Which isn’t even needed since he has +35% boon duration with a Warhorn and signet of Rage. He has perma swiftness anyway so the melee weapon speed is kind of wasted unless he is worried about his swiftness being stolen.

Yes of course they had all that since launch. So did Eles. But ele mobility was nerfed into the ground. Why not warriors?

In PvP and WvW a warrior pretty much was (and to some extent still is) go in do damage run out wait for CD’s to come up. They have no sustain. If you want a class to go in do alot of damage on 1 target and run out a thief is way better at it while being able to go right back in. A warrior has to wait for long cds to come up after a warrior heals 1 time they are pretty much no use until it’s back up again.

Ele CDs are WAY longer than warriors’ and they do less damage. So either eles need cd reductions and damage buffs across the board or warriors need their mobility nerfed into the ground. Everything else would be hypocrisy.

If we look at the main utility skills a warrior runs usually.

You have Healing surge (the really only form of sustain for most warriors) 30 sec cd. Around 8.4k with just 300 points in Defense and full adrenaline no adrenaline its 5.2k.

Endure pain was 90 secs now its 60 secs

Balance stance is popular – 40 secs

Bullscharge – 40 seconds no option to reduce the CD

Frenzy 60 secs breaks stun yea (also takes 50% more damage)

Shake is off 1 condition for 25 sec cd breaks stun.

These are all utility skills

Cantrips we have 40 secs on LF (traited 32)

Mist form 75 secs (comparable to say Endure pain but also can remove conditions and you don’t take additional condition damage like you do with endure pain)

Armor of earth (90 secs) balance stance would be comparable this one is a wash but I would give the edge to balance stance maybe depends on how much you value protection.

Arcane shield 45 secs (could compare to balance stance which is 40 secs but doesn’t block anything just gives you stability)

If we throw in signet of air 30 secs aoe blind, break stun.

I wouldn’t say the cd’s are all that much longer for what you get vs a warrior. I would take ele cantrips of warrior utilities all day long. If you wanted you only need 2 traits 2 cover them.

For warriors you have to jump around for traits to benefit your utility skills

Shouts – Tactics tree
Stance – Defense Tree
Physical skills – Strength

To do anything to benefit these utility skills you need 20 in tactics, 10 in defense, 20 in strength. Leaving you with 20 points. For cantrips a ele needs 20 points and they are covered all in the same line.

(corrected you can reduce the recharge of physical skills with trait)

Aether McLoud.1975:

oZii.2864:

Fishbait.6723:

Try this as an ele, more then likely you`ll just get 1-2 stuns & die
That & the speed/gap he creates is waaaay more then RTL/Staff 4 gives you…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=anDVv6CvFTY#t=663s

Have any of you ever played a warrior?

Everything thing he did there could have been done since launch he doesn’t have any of the new traits that warriors have except the 25% movement speed with melee weapons. Which isn’t even needed since he has +35% boon duration with a Warhorn and signet of Rage. He has perma swiftness anyway so the melee weapon speed is kind of wasted unless he is worried about his swiftness being stolen.

Yes of course they had all that since launch. So did Eles. But ele mobility was nerfed into the ground. Why not warriors?

In PvP and WvW a warrior pretty much was (and to some extent still is) go in do damage run out wait for CD’s to come up. They have no sustain. If you want a class to go in do alot of damage on 1 target and run out a thief is way better at it while being able to go right back in. A warrior has to wait for long cds to come up after a warrior heals 1 time they are pretty much no use until it’s back up again. A ele can go in and with better effectiveness hit multiple targets do damage back out heal up go back in quickly.

I can healing ripple, evasive arcana heal up 3 times before a warrior’s adrenaline surge is back up again thats not including whatever heal skill I have slotted.

As far as mobility goes a warrior sword main hand wasn’t that good it was just used for mobility and served really no other function except flurry cancel into 100bs or in a condition build. Most dps warriors only had it for mobility Axe>Sword. Its a bit better now that sword has been changed though so more warrior run sword but its still not better than axe for damage. You don’t really kill anyone with sword you just use it catch and snare people so you can damage them with another.

sinzer.4018:

Ancient Ranger.3276:

I was thinking a 0/0/20/20/30 build it will give me a little more armor with not that much dps loss and stability from the rock solid trait now thakittens been moved down to master.

This is what i’m running my utilities are signet of air (for passive + 30s stunbreaker), LF and MF. I’ve only tried it in WvW but i’ve been having good results.

I played around with 20 earth you can get good damage with it if you have decent crit damage and crit chance just slot signet of air for passive. Stone splinters and with serrated stones for +10% damage if you get the bleed up (maybe try sigil of earth to keep bleeds up).

I went back to 30 water just because cleansing water is a good trait. The only trait I would put on par with cleansing water in earth is protection on aura if I have 10 points to move around. I run all stat trinkets so changing my build doesnt require alot of tweaking.

I might try 20 earth again today