Guild Wars 2

wiazabi.2549:

Everytime someone talks about healing build stuff on necro i get the impression they avoid talking about CLASS MECHANIC i wonder why oh right Death shroud disable all healing just brilliant.

Uhm 6:40 did he just say / imply that Deathly Perception increase crit dmg?
7:15 Use spectral wall and spectral armor to get lifeforce back quick? :o dont the 2 kinda uhm work against eachother one prevents enemy from hitting you other you want the enemy to hit you ? and how does spectral wall give lifeforce ( ignoring the trait for on use ).

Not sure if that guy ever played necro or just theory crafting after watching other players using their build.

You don’t need the trait Spectral Wall does give you life force for every enemy that touches it. Test it yourself and be amazed. It isn’t alot of life force if it is just 1 person but since wall ignores the 5 person limit it can fill up fast if multiple people hit it.

GvG’ is a side meta-game created by players not supported by Anet. Duels are a meta-game created by players not supported by Anet.

My guild is very serious about GvG’s and we do them alot and practice but to think that Anet is making changes to support GvG’s and Dueling in WvW is false assumptions when they have never said anything of the sort.

You can make a GvG match but there is nothing stopping a random guild of 20 players coming to ruin it.

If you care so much about GvG’s ask Anet to make it a mode in game or make some imaginary part of WvW to GvG or a zone inside eternal jump puzzle. If they make changes to WvW it will be in line with their vision/intent of WvW. Anyone with reason should know that.

The almighty will have to help these forums and balance if there is actually a mode implement called duel’s (press enter) forums are already crazy with balance whines about what is OP and what isn’t in what game mode and in what context. “This is OP in solo roaming” “This is OP in duels” “This is OP 1v2” “This is OP in Zerg vs Zerg”

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Nuka Cola.8520:

This rune is not for mesmer but engi. Also works extremely well on a Fear spamming nec.

How? Fear doesnt count as an Interrupt, so if they are feared they arent using skills so they wont be taking confusion damage.

Or am i missing something?

No your not missing anything I think Nuka is because he thinks fear counts as a interrupt. It never has.

If you take a warrior pick distracting strikes trait use fear me on the skill you don’t get stacks of confusion from it.

alamore.1974:

I disagree i have a condition build ( more of a hybrid) i use in pvp and my bleeds do alot more damage then a power build i was running. And because i still have some power sword# 3 hits between 3-5k damage. Sword auto attack #3 (traited immobolize targets enabling me to stack bleeds easyr.

Before every one discounts bleed damage on sword try making a hybrid build with higher condition damage as it is right now my war bleeds are alot stronger then my necro.

ranged bleed stacking > melee bleed stacking you also probably have burn on crit and enough cover conditions. Every class can stack bleeds pretty much if they want to necro’s condi damage is strong because you have cover conditions not because you have to try to hit the bleed cap at 25 and a warrior doesn’t. My thief has condi gear and more condi damage than my necro does but it won’t kill stuff with condis faster than my necro it even has the runes of perplexity on him so he can get confusion and it still won’t kill faster than my necro.

I think 1h sword in hybrid build can be good but I would personally run it in power because at most you would get bleed, poison if you put sigil of doom on it and if you have a off hand sword torment. Pretty much every class has 1 skill on their bar that can wipe 3 condis though the torment is really nice on offhand sword because it can’t truly be cleansed.

My vote goes to Power or Hybrid I am not a fan of a full condition warrior unless your just doing it as a change of pace cause your bored of power.

lmao @6:30 that thief was what me and my guild like to call “Thirsty” he wanted you bad actually throughout that whole fight.

Yea I agree it is super awesome when me and a few engi’s that are running that rune or mesmers running it we coordinate the confusion dump so I know who to epidemic it is so awesome.

I see you ran warhorn in the last clip did you decide which one you like better with the runes or just alternate to what you feel you want to run?

Rennoko.5731:

Tricare.2946:

Was going to watch this during lunch….. Thanks for using music that won’t let me watch on my phone. Thanks.

Just for you buddy, I enabled the mobile.

War Mourner.5168:

I’m surprised they haven’t increased the CD on epidemic yet, it’s such a strong force multiplier with the right team, it’s pretty hilarious.

Also perplexity will be outright disgusting if they fix the whole fear being an interrupt thing. If only they would release a new rune set that would be worth using for me, rather then having used the same set since week 1.

The reality is, while you can build around making it amazing, it is down right useless in a 1v1, and equally lackluster in a power build. For it to be as niche as it is, an increase in cooldown would be uncalled for. Especially given how easy it is to miss, dodge, invuln the skill right now.

Just watch in the video how many times epidemic fizzles. I would say it is easily half.

Will take a look at this after I grab my food! I agree with epidemic actually dropped it recently for spectral wall as I get more uses out of that roaming around. I still love epi (probably my favorite skill in the game now) though something about watching the numbers fly makes me smile.

selan.8354:

i only do play my mesmer dude! no need to kitten belittle me .
and glam build with the highest confusion stacks worked hand in hand with bb! u use Dazzling Glamours and bb for feedback to give as many stacks as the current interrupts with this rune, but they dont last nearly as long. im talking about glam build.
using duelist through glam fields maybe works for 1v1, but in wvw kinda hard to do in the middle of a zerg. imagine a group of warriors with an interrupt build and those runes. it needs 5- 8 of them to inflict 25 stacks on the entire zerg within short time.

that is what glam before bb ner could do, only that the confusion applied through runes lasts 50 percent longer

i know u dont agree with me, but yes i hope the runes nr 6 will be changed to something that doesnet give a warrior the opportunity to get 9 stacks for 15 seconds with 1 interrupt which a mesmer cant do with glam. i would rather have ArmageddonAsh’s solution. it would buff confusion for us and help with stacking and duration.

K so now you are talking about in a zerg v zerg fight. Those warrior builds you keep going on about are 1v1 small man stuff. You said they have a better confusion build than mesmer’s which is false they do not.

Now you are talking about 5-8 warriors = better confusion build than mesmers you are reaching 5-8 different players needed to achieve your idea thakittens a better confusion build than ours and it still isnt.

5-8 hammer warriors? Run up to zerg 5-8 hammer warriors get melted by zerg! 5-8 hammer warriors didn’t apply confusion because they are dead.

5-8 mesmers with the glam build is more effective than 5-8 hammer warriors melting before they even get to the zerg because they can’t stealth to set up the attack.

Then I guess you will say take 2-3 thieves to invis the 5-8 warriors to make it a better confusion build.

Then yea sure in that case you win 7-11 different players with different classes is better than a mesmer confusion build.

We just agree to disagree but what you are saying is hyperbole.

If you only play mesmer how can you even claim that warriors are better at confusion than a mesmer. I have both classes and I am telling it is no contest in the mesmer’s favor even in a Zerg vs Zerg it is still in the mesmers favor.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Isn’t the duelist 100% confusion application a bug though? Pretty sure the trait isnt meant to make it go from 80% chance to 100% chance so even though its Anet its likely it will get fixed…One day

I don’t know if it is a bug tbh because there are alot of traits that affect projectiles and turn them into 100% projectile finishers. Warrior’s bow for example if you trait all attacks become 100% projectile finisher. This was mentioned by the 2 balance and skill guys in the last developer stream as a good reason to take stronger bow strings trait. I lean more on the side that it is intended

selan.8354:

feedback glam has to be traited, ideally with bb aswell, but our interrupts arent as spamable as a warriors. a warrior is the king of interrupts with his stun spams if speced right. the problem is the 5 stacks of confusion on interrupts for 10-15 secs. its not 3 stacks its 9 per interrupt=easy 25 ….and mesmers do not really have stability, but yes with nullfield we can remove that.

You read that and thought feedback glam then you bring up blinding befuddlement? No wonder you think warriors with these runes are so good you don’t know anything about your mesmer.

You just need to learn what a combo field is. What a projectile finisher does. I was trying to give you examples of why the mesmer is superior at confusion application. You really should play your mesmer more often and you would be able to understand what I am trying to explain. Anyone with just a little bit of mesmer experience should know that Duelist with trait shooting through an ethereal field (nullfield, feedback, chaos storm) gets 100% projectile finisher which means duelist can put 8 stacks of confusion on someone that is without runes, without glam spec.

selan.8354:

well but there is no class that has that many blocks that could chain burn like that though. it doesnet need an icd as blocking doesnet happen as often and also the burn duration is not as massive as perplexity 6. it is not viable to spec into burn on block, but for sure is viable to spec into confusion on interrupts as warriors are king of interrupts, next to engi and thieves.

just look at https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Confusion-stunner-build/first#post2620817
warriors now have a better confusion build than we do.

No no no no for the 100th time no! There is no way you can have a warrior and a mesmer and say that with a straight face. It just is impossible because we can apply confusion with no pre-requisite we don’t need to met some sort of criteria to get confusion on to someone besides hitting them with an attack.

Basic style I have a warrior and a mesmer.

You state that warriors have a better confusion build than we do which is false.

Warrior – distracting strikes (must interrupt to cause confusion) they take runes of perplexity so they can get a free 3 stack proc of confusion on hit with a 15 sec icd.

Mesmer – a scepter, 5 points in illusions, null field, feedback, a pistol a staff duelist discipline trait.

Warrior must interrupt to get stacks of confusion above 3, they also must be in melee range to get their interrupt.

Mesmer – presses feedback, presses 5, 8 shots of confusion headed the enemies way, presses 3, 5 stacks of confusion headed the enemies way.

Is duelist still up? Yes, ok good put chaos storm on duelist 8 more shots of confusion headed the enemies way. Duelist off cooldown? Yes, ok good press 5 put down null field 8 shots headed the enemies way. Scepter 3 off cooldown? Yes, ok good press 3. Can I shatter now? Sure, press f2. How many stacks of confusion will I get if all clones hit? 2 per clone so 6 stacks of confusion. Wow awesome.

I need runes of perplexity to do all this? No! What if I get runes of perplexity? That means you get even more confusion.

If a warrior with runes of perplexity meets another warrior who has stability on how many stacks of confusion will the warrior stack? 3 at most. Is there any other way for the warrior to put confusion on someone with stability? No!

If a ranger pops rampage as one and meets a warrior with these runes on how many stacks can the warrior put on him? 3 until the buff goes away can the warrior remove the stability? No. Can a mesmer remove the stability from the ranger if he is using these runes? Yes. So he can counter the rangers counter? Yes. Can the warrior? No!

If a necro goes into plague form how many stacks of confusion can a mesmer put on the necro with his 20 seconds of stability? Alot. How many can a warrior? 3.

Nice vid Furajir! If you see my necro roaming around take it easy on him k! I actually need to duel berserker stance wars on my necro they give me fits and I have one lolol. Might just have to chalk it up to a build order loss.

If your up to duel later if you don’t mind need to get my necro’s build right.

TheGuy.3568:

snip

You look at the trait on its own and its synergy with other traits the warrior has then look at how the trait performs in the present/current popular builds.

Your suggestion was to move unsuspecting foe to GM compared it to hidden killer and deathly perception but offered no replacement trait unless I missed that part in your post.

So your your OP is basically the trait is strong lets move it to GM I am not concerned about what replaces the trait at adept at all.

Comparing the traits that are similar to another class just ends up in a round and round discussion that never ends. You take X trait compare to Y trait then someone can counter with why X trait is where it is at on that class then insert a long list of variables because X class with X trait plays totally different than Y class and usually has a different playstyle than Y class.

There are alot of crit chance traits that activate under certain circumstances that are adept for many classes. Ele’s crit chance multiplier is zephyrs boon and it is adept it doesn’t add 50% but gives you 20% so in a sense it serves the same purpose so that you can sacrifice critical chance. Now I just brought a ele into the picture and then with it comes a whole bunch of variables to its playstyle.

So if we look at the trait just on its own merit and how it affects the builds that warrior currently has moving it to GM will kill certain builds.

Unsuspecting foe moved to GM means a tanky support type hammer build warrior would then have to put 30 points into arms. So they are left with 40 left over we all know 30 of those are probably going into tactics. So 10 left over to put into defense? Then they wont have adrenal health, merciless hammer, cleansing ire, last stand, or can’t reach defy pain(which would be good on a warrior with so much HP).

Moving it to 30 in arms really wont do much for anyone specced damage anyway they can still reach the trait and still have good damage. So I wouldn’t base moving it jsut because of the skullcrack build all you are doing is giving them more critical chance and -100 tougness (if they went 30 defense) and less critical damage which just means they put on more zerker or more valk gear.

It would just turn into 0/30/20/0/20. I run 30 defense anyway I would lose last stand that would be the only important trait I would lose if it moved to GM.

The trait is in the critical chance line so you don’t have to go all the way 30 points in which would defeat the purpose of the trait. So why not just leave it at adept so that tanky, bunker type builds have access to some damage they benefit from the trait more than a valk, zerker (cav trinket) warrior does.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Is poison a good condition though? I haven’t used it much myself. And often in PVE I noticed other classes already applying poison on bosses, and since it doesn’t stack in intensity (only in duration), mine would seem rather redundant. As for weakness, Enfeebling Blood does that just fine.

I’ve tried using CPC in the Queen’s Pavilion. It seemed to do something to the huge mobs, but it’s hard to tell just how effective it really is in the middle of a zerg.

In PvE I wouldn’t say Poison is all that great I’d argue it is pretty bad in PvE.

Ashanor.5319:

So I was bored and decided to try out LB S/S the other day and got spammed by an Engineer telling me how bad I was for playing a flavor of the month “noob” build and that is the only reason I managed to beat him repeatedly.

Only a matter of time and they will complain about everything warrior has. Bad players will always be bad, and they got used to warrior being a free kill and don’t like the taste of warrior being half way decent.

lololol its all perspective I find LB S/S condi builds to not be particularly threatening. Annoying yes but never had a problem with them.

Any range weapon set (no matter the class) usually deals with engi builds pretty evenly because their strength is range I don’t know why the guy is crying lol.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Example: In PvP, the Necro and Engi both vie for the position of condition pressure. The engineer has more physical alternatives, the Necro has more boon/condition manipulation, the Engi has more escapability, and the Necro is a little squishier. If we gave the Necro too much mobility or escapability, then all of a sudden their “tools” start to line up exactly. If this is the case, one of them will simply be better than the other, as far as efficacy goes, and thus, one will push the other out of the meta for that “role” on the team. This class would then be the “apex” predator for that role. So, in order to prevent this, we try to make it so that the classes don’t have all their tools overlap perfectly. This means you have to say (following our example), “Well, if we take a Necro, we get more condies, but a squishy body that can’t disengage…..but if we take Engi, we lose some DPS and control (depending on utils), but we get someone who can stand up to a spike better”.

Make sense? If we just gave the escape to Necro’s, then all of a sudden, the Necro is just the clear choice. Not all decisions come down to a clean break like this, but this is the type of thing we’re trying to do when we “deny” some classes certain tools.

This is the same reason that Red doesn’t get interrupts in Magic, the reason that Zergs, normally, have much more mobility than Protoss (since Toss are usually stronger unit-by-unit), and why Karthus has no escapes. By denying tools, you create choices for the players. We sometimes do a poor job of this, sorry. But overall, we try to make it so that all classes have choices, and teams have choices in which classes they bring.

Also, keep in mind we’re trying to get 8 classes to fit into 5 slots, for PvE, Dungeons, and PvP.

This is all high level, and I’m in a rush, but I just wanted to explain this real fast…..

It’s funny, being in China, I have more time to post on the forums than I do while in the office. That’s irony or something….like 10,000 spoons….

-Chap from China

/thread!!!

You can’t compare what one class has to another class as the foundation of your argument. Probably every thread on balance does this X class has this skill that says the same as Y so …. insert suggestion.

The purpose of the trait imo is for those people speccing tanky to still be able to produce decent damage. Alot of the warrior traits are placed in a way to allow this. They use to even more so with HF and berserkers power at adept.

Honestly just leave the trait where it is moving it doesn’t change anything you just crit a bit less if you don’t have the trait. The only skill you really really cared about was 100bs after skull.

Not agreeing with the OP’s suggestion at all as it is based off what other classes have which is kind of fail.

LastDay.3524:

CPC isn’t terribad, I just feel that there are usually better skills.
I think that it just needs a larger radius because it’s too easy to get out of considering it’s effect.

240 Radius is alright for offensive Wells because they have powerful effects and short durations.
Standing inside a Well of Suffering or Well of Corruption for 5 seconds is much more dangerous than standing the same duration inside a CPC.

CPC has the same 240 radius and a 60 second (or 48s) cooldown but a 12 second duration.
Making it much bigger could make it very useful while also distancing it from Wells.

Adding Cripple to it might work too, but it’d probably just make condi bursts even worse.

CPC is 40s not traited 32s traited.

I looked at the wiki I’ll have to test to confirm. I thought it was a pulse every second.

Its a pulse every 3 seconds according to the wiki the poison and weakness is applied at creation then once every 3 seconds which is probably why the duration is so long still not bad as most conditionmancers have condi duration anyway.

I just started playing necro also it is alot of fun and the control over boons and conditions is really fun.

Kraag pretty much said everything from my playing necro and reading around you pretty much have the general idea. Just like any class your muscle memory will kick in as to what is best in what situation etc.

You don’t have the escapes like you have on thief (Have a thief also) so in small engagements (I run condi) with a few friends I tend to do my work in the back laying aoes and putting bleeds on people etc then epi it. It is especially fun when you are with a mesmer or engi running the new runes of perplexity and you epi the target with 15+ stacks of confusion stuff just starts to die quick.

Just play it out though and you will get a feel for it I love conditions and I got tired of trying to make it work really good on my thief and mesmer(though with the new confusion runes mesmer condi builds are very good again). Still I feel like compared to those classes necro easily outshines them in condi builds currently.

1vX like you can on thief is a bit different if there is a berserker stance warrior around that should be your top priorty to either kill or get out it can be done but they tend to force me personally to use important cd’s because they can put alot of pressure on you.

Also in small man fights you will probably be the #1 target I know when my guild is out roaming (we use voice comms) necro’s are the priority target over any other class outside of maybe a really support heavy guardian that is making it difficult to take people down. Then maybe a cc heavy hammer warrior but usually necro is top on the hit list and usually our berserker stance warrior is the person we have to occupy/kill the necro.

Other than that though have fun the utilities are all depending on what you like to run/playstyle it isn’t so clear cut like on your thief where most thieves take SR and SS. I wouldn’t say there is a standard utility that everyone runs. I think from my playtime on all classes the utilities I see most common on necros are epidemic, signet of locust, spectral walk.

The auto idea I like but the auto is only 3 hits

1= 2 vulnerability (gives it some purpose in a power build but not great)
2= random condition always good
3= mini explosion for small radius aoe blind.

It would still need a animation speed up but this would make it better even if it didn’t speed up. Example my necro gets bleed, bleed, poison on its auto chain its same speed as mesmer scepter (think it is game wide attack rate for scepter) but since its condi on all the attacks it isn’t so bad.

2. would be a bit to strong that would be 8 stacks of confusion from a block and counterspell. I think counter spell is ok but change it to like necro dagger 4 off hand where it slightly tracks and it can bounce 3 times(between enemies) for blinds.

Confusing images suggestion mmm reducing the kittens to 3 seems ok and 6 stacks is ok also I think.

The blind ideas I put in there would make blinding befuddlement trait even more attractive in builds with scepter. Since there is the icd on it now you can’t just blind stack confusion on someone till death but you would at least get a blind if you can’t proc confusion again and it would make scepter a pretty good offensive and defensive weapon.

Andele.1306:

Difference is EA has a conditional cooldown, you can just swap between attunements (what you are doing either way) and as such the cooldown is removed.
Also again if their gripe was balance, why do many other on dodge skills have stronger effects for less/the same investment. As metioned above the clone on dodge trait is just as core for a mesmer as the shatter on self is, but on a necro MoE is mostly a additional proc of regen, no you wouldnt use dodges to place it, nor would you dodge into the melee range required to proc it on any condition build because it would be plain suicide, so bleeed stacking is out of question.
A lot of traits plain need fixing, that includes on dodge ones (that includes the thieves endurance back on dodge that i was kitten ing around with later yesterday to see i you could get max stacks without condition duration and guess what it has a “cast time” so it doesnt return endurance if you dodge twice in a row).

And another thing, Ren is 100% correct about the consistency thing, if you give a set amount of rules to one profession, you cannot bend them for another just because they can do bullkitten with it, you make a point to counterbalance it (e.g. make a generic skill for a control tank a high risk skill for a glass cannon or reverse, just how lich is quite risky to use on a tanky char since you cannot heal back up the damage delt without ending it early). Only thin that it doesnt apply to is playstyle effect of different classes (even if it is bullkitten sometimes).

Right which is why I said it could possibly have no icd or a 5 sec icd would be fair. I wasn’t comparing the 2 skills directly just saying that EA is balanced different and it is a dodge trait. Just because a trait is a on dodge trait they shouldn’t all be balanced with the same icd’s some are way better than others was the point I was making. I am assuming they took greater marks trait into consideration when they balanced it. Now that GM is a master trait it probably should have a change with a lower or no icd.

Bhawb.7408:

Shroud has 15s ICD, btw.

Is it 15s thought it was 10 just from messing around with it in WvW last night. Didn’t actually look at the wiki. Thanks for clarification.

I am new to necro and I started with http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQQQNArYWjMap7FbubM8JEoH7CuAiRKOmghSR5kOA-jEyA0CACDI9BKHWEN2qZR0Y1QYqUioafQR0qFCYxEA-w

which is the build ormiga linked.

I since have moved away from terror build into this

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.0|6.1b.h5|b.1b.h9.8.1b.h16|1b.7n.1b.7n.1b.7n.1b.7n.1b.7n.1b.9b|2x.0.2w.0.1b.9b.1b.9b.1b.9b.2w.0|u5a0.a4.0.0.u3ac|30.d|0.0.0.0.0|e

It’s a bit different than most condi builds (sorry I used buildcraft) the last trait in spite is for dhuumfire.

I switched to this setup because the condition damage loss from undead runes to 5 engineer and 1 crest of rabid was pretty small on bleeds. The burning took the biggest hit but 681 is still respectable burn damage but I like 2.7k armor at a minimum. Unless I am on my thief or mesmer.

This setup up feels a bit more tanky to me I felt squishy with undead runes and only 20 in SR and in WvW necros are a high priority target for any other small group you encounter. I don’t miss the terror (it is fun though) and I actually will find it hard to give up soul marks in a condi build and near to death has also become a favorite trait of mine also. I just feel like 2.5k armor is pretty squishy for a class with not enough outs and ds is the main out I feel for a necro so why not make it as good as you can get it.

I probably should take foot in the grave as stun warriors are a pain to deal with and I run that same build on my warrior so I know how it plays but still gives me problems on my necro.

Just my opinion.

I don’t think dodge traits state anywhere why they have icd’s and some don’t I think many assume its balance which in many cases makes sense.

Evasive arcana has a 10 sec icd in what ever attunement your last spell was cast if it didn’t I could run sigil of energy with perma vigor and dodge roll heal to full all day long people complain about ele’s heals already that would be over the top. I think it use to not have a icd but I didn’t play ele back then.

The caltrops are kind of a meh trait and I think the cripple is probably more useful than the bleed right now as not many thieves run P/D condi anymore and those that do take any of the other traits usually over it. I think damage thieves take it just for kiting.

I know weakening shroud has a 10 sec icd I found this out last night with close to death trait on.

From my nooby necro perspective I think mark of evasion has the icd because of the potential with greater marks. Now that Greater Marks is a master trait they could bring the icd down I feel or get rid of it all together which would make both traits even more attractive.

In this case I don’t think the regen would be over the top if you kept stacking it but the bleed could be pretty strong if it didn’t have a icd but I think a 5 sec icd is fair now. Its not like necros have perma vigor anywhere.

A friend who’s advice on necro I feel is good advice said that CPC is a very underrated skil and one of the best necromancer utilities.

I tried to dig up opinions on my own through searching but all I found was topics based on how weakness use to work. Then I would agree it’s not very worthwhile.

From a WvW/sPvP perspective how do you guys feel about the skill now in a condition build.

The field duration is really long so the downtime on the skill not traited is 28 seconds which isn’t bad at all. Since alot of necro utilities have long cd’s.

RIght now I am trying out 30/10/0/0/30 but a condition setup with a focus on good life pool and quick ds recharge rate so I always run spectral walk, and spectral armor. I usually run epi but I like to swap epi out from time to time but wanted to get a general idea on what people think of CPC and experiences with it post weakness buff.

I dont want to be a buzz kill but comparing classes have this vs which classes don’t have this is well not a good argument to get something.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Current-state-of-the-meta/page/9

JonathanSharp.7094:

Oh, also, the reason we can’t give Necro’s too much disengage has to do with the point of “purity of purpose”.

In this game, we want to allow classes the ability to deal with all situations but in different ways. But, if we give all classes all TOOLS (which is a different thing), then players get confused as to which classes fill which roles, and in what way they fill those roles

Example: In PvP, the Necro and Engi both vie for the position of condition pressure. The engineer has more physical alternatives, the Necro has more boon/condition manipulation, the Engi has more escapability, and the Necro is a little squishier. If we gave the Necro too much mobility or escapability, then all of a sudden their “tools” start to line up exactly. If this is the case, one of them will simply be better than the other, as far as efficacy goes, and thus, one will push the other out of the meta for that “role” on the team. This class would then be the “apex” predator for that role. So, in order to prevent this, we try to make it so that the classes don’t have all their tools overlap perfectly. This means you have to say (following our example), “Well, if we take a Necro, we get more condies, but a squishy body that can’t disengage…..but if we take Engi, we lose some DPS and control (depending on utils), but we get someone who can stand up to a spike better”.

Make sense? If we just gave the escape to Necro’s, then all of a sudden, the Necro is just the clear choice. Not all decisions come down to a clean break like this, but this is the type of thing we’re trying to do when we “deny” some classes certain tools.

This is the same reason that Red doesn’t get interrupts in Magic, the reason that Zergs, normally, have much more mobility than Protoss (since Toss are usually stronger unit-by-unit), and why Karthus has no escapes. By denying tools, you create choices for the players. We sometimes do a poor job of this, sorry. But overall, we try to make it so that all classes have choices, and teams have choices in which classes they bring.

Also, keep in mind we’re trying to get 8 classes to fit into 5 slots, for PvE, Dungeons, and PvP.

I understand why they deny certain classes certain things. Which is why they probably don’t give mesmer good out of combat mobility.

SoccaGOD.9375:

You both are correct. Mesmers are the best confusion class, and these runes benefit us greatly. However, there should be an ICD placed on the rune so that interrupt heavy classes can’t gain access to obscene amounts of confusion. I understand that it is not particularly easy to get four or five sequential interrupts on a class, but giving a previously non condition class access to 15-25 stacks of a confusion seems overpowered compared to other runesets.

I can’t think of one rune (feel free to correct me) that has some sort of on hit/on interupt/on block ect. effect that does not have an ICD… so I believe that this rune should be no exception. Though I hope the ICD is not as ridiculously high as the 20 second cooldown for the torment runes #6.

On a different note, I have been using these runes on my mesmer the past two days and have noticed the +30% confusion duration is not working. Has anyone else had the same issue?

The one that I believe that doesn’t have a icd is the burn on block 6 piece bonus on runes of guardian. That is the only rune that I know of.

selan.8354:

oZii.2864:

selan.8354:

and that signature move has been passed on to the class with the best interrupts!
nr6 should not trigger on interrupts it should be something else or more like something that supports the current confusion using classes. i dont even wanna thing about what a treb can do to a zerg with those runes.. imagine 1 hit u hit a ton of people at the gate and keep repeating it… the person on treb with that rune mass wipes an entire zerg with 25 stack of confusion each!

but hey i wouldnt be unhappy if there was a rune of burning:

1) 28 condition damage
2) 15% burn duration
3) 55 condition damage
4) 20% chance to cause burn on hit (15 second cooldown)
5) 100 condition damage
6) 15% burn duration, inflict burn for 10 seconds for each glamour skill

oh ooops, thats right mesmers would become masters of burning!that sounds like the best balanced rune ever! im sure no other classes would be upset over that.

Are you really that upset about these runes? Seriously you are just grasping at this point. What makes you think these rune proc on a Treb? The hyperbole is strong with you a treb mass killing people at the gate with confusion lmao.

I don’t even know what your angle is tbh are you just ranting because other classes get confusion from a rune set. Runes give classes alot of abilities that they don’t normally have. I am sure you have used a rune set before that has given you an ability you don’t normally have. I mean stacking bleed duration thats like stealing necro’s lingering curse and hemophila trait.

You can get runes to give you a jagged horror

Summon a bomb

Mist form

nah the problem is not that other classes get confusion, it is that other classes are able to stack it better than mesmers that actually speced into confusion. and other runes give u stuff u dont have, but there is like 90 sec cooldowns on them and wouldnt make me a master of jagged horror or anything like it. the problem i have is just how extreemly viable the stacks are u can get. and the treb thing came up while i was defending a keep with a treb that hit a ton of people pershot and all i saw as interrupts, that just made me wonder if this runes nr 6 gets triggered by that too.

and yes i am disappointed with the poor balance of all the new runes. i mean the had to hotfix tormenting rune (which got now overnerfed), because engineers could have stacked torment up to 25 stacks easily. and perplexity is really kinda a slap in the face for mesmers that speced into confusion.

Have you even used the runes? No other class can stack confusion like mesmers the closest one is a engi. A warrior can hit the 25 stack cap with these runes yes but after that they fall off and they require interrupts to stack it in the first place. Engis can lay confusion but after their normal skill they need interrupts.

Without the runes you can stack 15 stacks of confusion with a duelist, a field like null for 8, scepter 3 for 5, then pick where you want to get your last 2 from lets say cry of frustration.

We get a free +33% duration trait we don’t have to spec it anymore than anyone else probably even less we only need to take just that trait and food we are at 100% duration. Any other class will have to go into their condition duration line we don’t.

I have the runes and it is so easy to put 16 stacks on someone with a duelist, a field and scepter its not funny.

With runes duelist can give you 8 stacks, scepter can give you 8 stacks with 4 piece proc thats 16 stacks in less than 5 seconds no interrupts needed if you get a interrupt with chaos storm, diversion magic bullet or any other interrupt you like you hit over 20 stacks easy.

selan.8354:

and that signature move has been passed on to the class with the best interrupts!
nr6 should not trigger on interrupts it should be something else or more like something that supports the current confusion using classes. i dont even wanna thing about what a treb can do to a zerg with those runes.. imagine 1 hit u hit a ton of people at the gate and keep repeating it… the person on treb with that rune mass wipes an entire zerg with 25 stack of confusion each!

but hey i wouldnt be unhappy if there was a rune of burning:

1) 28 condition damage
2) 15% burn duration
3) 55 condition damage
4) 20% chance to cause burn on hit (15 second cooldown)
5) 100 condition damage
6) 15% burn duration, inflict burn for 10 seconds for each glamour skill

oh ooops, thats right mesmers would become masters of burning!that sounds like the best balanced rune ever! im sure no other classes would be upset over that.

Are you really that upset about these runes? Seriously you are just grasping at this point. What makes you think these rune proc on a Treb? The hyperbole is strong with you a treb mass killing people at the gate with confusion lmao.

I don’t even know what your angle is tbh are you just ranting because other classes get confusion from a rune set. Runes give classes alot of abilities that they don’t normally have. I am sure you have used a rune set before that has given you an ability you don’t normally have. I mean stacking bleed duration thats like stealing necro’s lingering curse and hemophila trait.

You can get runes to give you a jagged horror

Summon a bomb

Mist form

thanks guys for the feedback. I am currently trying 30 points in soul reaping I dropped 10 from curses. So far it seems pretty decent I feel my DS is much more tankier than before

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I think the Mage is VERY weak, for a 30second cool down (untraited) it is PATHETIC. Nothing else can be said i mean look at iZerker, its like a 20second cool down untraited but does ALOT more damage, is more useful and on a shorter cool down and can trigger like 4-5 bleeding with sharper images.

Personally i think it needs a BIG buff:

1) Decrease The cool down to 25seconds untraited (20 traited)

2) Increase Confusion stacks to 5 stacks per a hit, Duration base 10seconds

3) Increase Retal to 5seconds

4) Make it so that it adds another 2-3 conditions – Bleeding, Burning, Poison, Torment would be nice choices

5) Increase base damage by 50%

6) increase projectile speed by 25%

I like the idea of mage being good when he is out. All the phantasms are recognizable with zerker and duelist probably considered the most dangerous.

I like all these ideas. Definitely the base duration increase on confusion that way if you spec duration it becomes a threat if you don’t kill him.

We must remember this name (Xelnok.2397) and question his knowledge anytime a post from him is spotted.

This reminds me of the post in the thief forums Complete with video of a group getting killed by a P/D thief he would steal stomp and they where like he is hacking lmao!!!

The video disappeared shortly after.

I am currently running the 30/20/0/0/20 I was running master of terror trait but after using soul marks I find it hard to give up the trait now.

I know scepter 3 can give LF back and spectral skills and traits. I wanted to know how you guys out there gain LF or do you not really worry about it at all?

Was there a build previously that many run or ran that allowed you to be condi spec but still have good ways to regen LF. I like the dhuumfire trait and I would be willing to give it up if I had something that was more tankyish but still had good condition damage.

When I don’t take soul marks trait I feel like if I engage and have lf force to start I am fine until it is depleted it seems hard to build it back up. Are the spectral skills/traits worth it to help with LF regen?

Sorry it is more than 1 question. Just wanted to get some more experienced insight on LF management regen etc.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m still considering the torment set myself. The confusion procs, all in all, are a bit unreliable. When comparing the two, it all boils down to one question:

Will the confusion inflict more damage than the torment?

I’m not so sure on that. The superior runes of torment put nearly any condi necro build I run 100% torment duration, so this gives an additional 3 to 5 seconds for Tainted Shackles. This comes to a total of 9-15 extra ticks of damage overall from tainted shackles, but that is just the fringe benefit.

The real benefit comes from the proc on heal. Though the cooldown was nerfed to be nigh unusable with other classes’ heals, it goes fairly well with Consume Conditions and Summon Blood Fiend. The proc on heal causes 2 stacks AoE torment for 20 seconds, which adds an additional 40 ticks of torment to the damage output.

The real key here being the AoE nature of it all. The additional duration from tainted shackles and the heal proc hit up to 5 enemies, so overall it ends up being upwards to 45-75 additional ticks with tainted shackles, and 200 additional ticks with the heal. Then throw on epidemic to double up the damage, and things can get pretty wicked. Things can also get pretty complicated, too, depending on the foe you fight. Since torment requires motion to do full damage, in PVE this ends up being around 75% of bleeding damage, but against kite-able enemies and in PVP it is 150% bleeding damage for that duration.

The real trick in the comparison is whether or not terror will be properly fixed to be an interrupt. If it is, then Perplexity gets another firm foot to stand on. If you do a lot of 1 vs. 1 fights, small skirmishes, or are concerned with bosses, then Perplexity is probably the way to go. However, I’m going to roll with tormenting and cause more mass havoc.

The radius on the 6 piece bonus on heal is very small my guess 240m like most aoe on heal stuff and weapon swap stuff like geomancy, hydromancy, etc. That is the main problem with the torment rune (or any on heal rune proc with a damage component) the radius is just small which is fine if your on a class that will be in melee range often.

You would have to be right next to your target probably have to fear to ensure you don’t get interrupted then heal and they could very well be out of range by time you get it off.

Alshalabi.8347:

Jzaku.9765:

I’m guessing you don’t know that there are celestial runes or you would already have put those on….your……celestial….armour.

i have armor set

i need upgrade the armor , what the best Superior Rune for this armor

It depends on what you want to do. What your focus is.

If you want a focus on dps, or support, healing, conditions etc.

If you just want to be the most celestial that you can be with even stats on every piece of gear you have (outside of your back piece) then you want Divinity Runes.

It is a forum wide problem not just warrior specific or even game mode preference specific. This goes on in all games not just GW2.

There are many different sides to all the arguments about what is OP what is not OP etc etc. You have the people that love their class with passion and pride they will always defend their class to their last drop of blood. Purist who have been playing their favorite class since BWE 1.

Of course the usual I made a post person just off of gut reaction.

I post in all the class forums that I play, I read other class forums and I read WvW and occasionally sPvP forums.

Personally I always felt the Warrior forums had the best theorycrafting of all the classes I play. Puandro’s post about dps on runes etc. I love those kind of posts. So I use to come here before I even made my warrior. Alot of the theorycrafting has been figured out for most classes as far as what is optimal and what isn’t. Now it’s novelty builds, I changed a trait so my build is called super gorilla and it’s different than the build you made. Of people just thinking about new idea’s. It all ramps up again when new armor stats come out, new weapon stats, balance changes etc.

Anyway the problem will never really go away it is a public open forum. You can ignore posts, disagree or agree or just not visit the forums at all that really is the only options.

Excalibur.9748:

@oZii…there’s a huge difference between a thief in stealth and a warrior not in stealth.

The thief is in stealth..what is he doing? He’s regening health…or running away…he can’t do anything else.

Take a minute think about this for a second. Think about how a thief plays and what he uses stealth for. Then you will realize anybody that doesn’t have a thief will think it is hilarious that you ask this question and anyone who has a thief will also think it’s hilarious.

When a thief is in stealth he is doing what he normally does you just play normally while getting 470 hps.

Excalibur.9748:

Savish.4205:

That is like 4500 damage every 3 secs assuming you are hitting a 50% damage reduction from armor (which is over 3700+ armor) you must be getting 1500+ health regen per sec? I must be using the wrong healing signet…

it’s called dodges, endure pain, blocks etc. use it.

on topic: yes the healing signet is most op heal in the game. you don’t even have to use it even.

No the signet is not OP because something is the best in the game doesn’t make something OP. The reason it heals so well in zerker builds because you are taking damage constantly unless you have your block, or endure pain up. There is no aegis, there is no stealth etc. Jon Peter’s said they where goiing to buff it so since it currently has no place in zerker builds.

I know you play a thief and are jelly of the signet but seriously before this a Thief could stay in the mix of the battle better than a warrior.

It’s not like you can’t get your own form of awesome sustain you just chose not to. You don’t have to spec your thief for it either and you don’t have to press 6.

Shadow protector + shadow rejuvenation with 300 healing power(needed to get shadow rejuvenation anyway) = 490 HPS while in stealth

kthxs bye

P.S. there are plenty of builds direct damage that go 30 into shadow arts.

Player Character.9467:

This thread isn’t even true, just the 10 bleeds from the grapeshots will overpower those.

Boom goes the dynamite!! /dance 2 grapeshots dead unless you /heal rofl.

In a zerg fight these runes hardly matter. Like others have said.

In a 1v1 they can be powerful.

I have tried these runes on my mesmer(very strong), necro(just ok), thief(decent)

They will stay on my mesmer and thief no matter what happens to them. I dropped them on my necro.

I haven’t seen rangers with them and I think they could be strong on a ranger since they have a few interrupts(I’m guessing the pets don’t count for the interrupt to proc since it doesn’t for flesh golem on a necro)

They will probably get nerfed with some icd because people are asking for them. IF it does get nerfed I just hope it doesn’t make them useless. You really have to go all in condi damage to get good damage out of them even if you can stack 25 stacks of confusion on someone the damage isn’t a huge threat if you don’t have the condition damage investment.

So in the end it really comes down to how much small group and 1v1’s matter in regards to balance.

With that said these runes of a 6th piece bonus that is good and other runes should have these kinds of bonuses. Proccing on heal is meh like the torment rune gives you great duration but using your heal for 2 stacks is meh. I know engis could stack it up before with med kit so they put a icd on it. Engis also probably went condi on it.

Anyways this will probably get nerfed just because people are asking for it.

Do I personally think they are broken or OP? On any other class besides a mesmer I feel they are fine. On a mesmer they are strong in a 1v1 very strong no lie. Outside of that in a 1vX scenario to get alot of stacks you would need imbued diversion trait, and multiple people to stand in your chaos storm to get 25 stacks on multiple people.

I don’t know much about a guardian but really a guardian could lay down a line of warding, a ring of warding and if he is fighting a bad player spamming skills trying to get out of the ring or through the line hypothetically stack 25 stacks of confusion. Just because its possible doesn’t make it OP.

Furajir.3815:

Yeah, was fun for the hour or so I ran it. And sorry maybe I didn’t see you or mybe it was someone else. I’ve been a solo roamer since release and I don’t run from anyone heh.

I’ll look for ya!

No worries didn’t mean to come off like a prick in my post my apologies. I have a few different characters and it kind of spilled over here from forum posting where a mesmer is like OMG warriors can stack 25 stacks with out looking at the overall picture of how a warrior would play with hammer mace/shield.

Again my apologies. If you have a mesmer or a thief though they aren’t to bad at all actually excellent on a mesmer. If you have a necro they are just ok but the 6th piece bonus is wasted unless you warhorn or get a good spectral grasp off.

Maybe an apothecary warrior can get some mileage out of them though.

Furajir.3815:

I guess the zerg had nothing to do with me running?

And I’m merely testing outside of my normal build just to see what the fuss is about.

Calm down. I’m only showing confusion stacking ability

? What zerg? There was no zerg coming you just came out of spawn.

Fair enough on the testing nothing wrong with that.

They get a no vote from me for a warrior. Awesome on a mesmer(best on mesmer imo) good on a condi thief, just ok on a necro tested them on all these classes.

Didn’t test on a warrior just doesn’t seem worth it to run hammer, mace/shield condi spec.

Just some quick math if lets say hypothetically you get 18 stacks on someone and lets say you can maintain those 18 stacks for the duration of the fight.

You have 1000 condition damage will net you 2520 per skill use with 18 stacks of confusion.

Which is ok damage but I don’t know for the amount of work you would have to put in to get the interrupts and the fact that you gave up the damage on your runes or say melandru is worth it.

Maybe a rampager crit damage mix so the confusion is supplemental damage while you pump out ok direct damage. Either that or you have to go all-in with rabid or carrion with a hammer + Mace/shield build.

Lmao I just ran into you on my mesmer y u run away?

You gave me 9 stacks of confusion

So I look at the combat log 1,200 skull crack was the highest hit you got on me and I have 2.7k armor.

Put the runes away.

Plus that warrior in your second shot is terrible below average full glass, rifle warrior who keyboard turns.

Edit: My bad 1,420 shield bash was your highest hit the rest was 800-900 ish with a hammer and mace/shield

We did some dueling last night me and my friend both have these runes on our mesmer’s and hands down this set is maximized on a Mesmer 25 stacks is very easy to get and possible multiple times over the course of a fight and 10+ is not hard to maintain at all.

I ran all my classes through to try against him on his mesmer and my Necro actually did the best against this it really was in my favor just because of deathly swarm and putrid mark easy transfers back to him.

My p/d thief(also with these runes) with d/p off set(for headshot spam/interrupt) I got him the first time with 15 stacks of confusion. After the first fight I just got slaughtered many times.

I hope they don’t get nerfed but I fear they might end up putting a icd on the 6 piece bonus even still the set will still be very good I feel.

Daecollo.9578:

If the sword was 900m range I would agree with you, however warriors are easy to kite and my necromancer’s scepter outdamages it with condition damage. Hilarious right?

Don’t listen to me though, I love fighting lolconditionwarriors, its like a free kill to my daily. <3

^^

Condi warrior is a novelty build. I can see it as a change of pace but it’s kill ability seems lacking to me.

The large amount of damage comes from auto attacking to bleed stack, then your supplemental damage from the torment sword throw. The bow is lulz imo who is seriously going to stand in that big red ring of fire long enough to take serious burn damage. It’s not rapid fire of different types of conditions its like a slow draw of conditions here a condition there.

I just feel its lacking. I don’t say this about many builds because they usually stand up to an alternative from another class something about them that is unique. The condi warrior just doesnt have it if you really want condi just roll another class. Unless the war is your only class or you just want a change of pace from damage and have money to blow(WvW) on apothecary

Xsorus.2507:

I think the stacks and duration is fine for the rune, but it can be abused to get very high stacks of Confusion, a 10 second ICD would make it fairly nice without causing some of the major problems it currently does with some classes.

Your referring to the 6th piece interrupt? I think the 4 piece is fine 3 stacks of confusion is just ok supplemental damage.

So if it went to a 10 sec icd. with 100% duraion you would have 20 secs of confusion 5 stacks so if we assume a wipe over that 20 secs 10 sec icd seems fair.

Classes outside of engi and mesmer would be able to put max 8 stacks of confusion at least for 10 second before anymore stacks could be applied. 8 stacks is ok damage I think its about 1250 IIRC on skill use with 1500 damage.

Well someone must make the thread asking anet to nerf the runes who shall it be and where will it be posted?

Rennoko.5731:

Sorry… but I can run Superior runes of the Pirate and run 30/30/10/0/0, and get more condition damage than Undead Runes if I go 30/0/0/30/10. Guess pirate runes are much better for conditions.

It isn’t the runes that caused you to lose the condition damage as others have said, so commenting the runes in effect cause you to lose that damage is silly.

Bottom line, even without the 6 bonus, (in my opinion) are still the best we can get for a mix of good-great damage and an addtional condition freebie tacked on.

Agree with Rennoko if your choice was always undead Perplexity is better more conditions is always better. It really is preference why take anything else though if you want max condi damage this is the best choice.

This isn’t a knock out of the park blow out for perplexity over undead but it is the better rune.

Maybe this makes it easier to understand what Ren is saying.

If you have 1 enemy that has:

5 stacks of bleeding 120 per tick
3 stacks of confusion
5 seconds of burning

then you have the same enemy that has

5 stacks of bleeding @ 125 per tick
5 seconds of burning

Which one is more likely to die faster? You could replace confusion with poison and the answer is still the one that has more damage conditions on him.

Ezeriel.9574:

the 6th bonus for undead runes was around 150 condition damage for my necro

I also went from a 0-30-20-20-0 condition build to a 30-0-20-20-0 build to use these runes, and that cost me an additional 150 crit and 150 condition damage.

So right there is a loss of 300 condition damage, and a rather large drop in crit chance, meaning less earth sigil bleed procs as well as waiting longer for Dhuumfire to proc, which is something to consider.

In full rabids and using a +5% crit sigil I’m only at 38ish crit, and I’ve gone a good while without procing Dhuumfire, dry spells for crits really hamstring that skill.

…I’m just saying, it’s not all greener grass and roses using perplexity runes.

That was your choice to move points out of curses what does that have to do with the runes? You lost the condition damage because you moved 30 points out of curses why would you do that?

selan.8354:

erm this is all 1v1 based. a mesmers interrupts are more 1v1 based. inn wvw imaginge a hammerwarrior train with those runes…perma 25 confusion stacks . with one hit if traited they get 9 kitten stacks of confusion and 5 of the last for 10 seconds. this is not a rune made fore confusion mesmers this rune takes our core condition and gieves it to every class that now can viably stack it. we got a kitten bb nerf so we couldnt stack it that well any more and now all a warrior has to to is to hit u and while dealing massive dps he will now alls give kitten 9 stacks and if u get hit again 18 stacks and then we are very kitten close to 25 stacks!

so whats next? are they taking our cloens and give it to all the other classes too? and then a rune that gives u perma acces to timewarp with a 20 seconds cooldown? seriously is anet tryig to destroy the mesmers?

I have a warrior I have played hammer warrior before. So lets imagine a hammer warrior with these runes. He hits you with a earth shaker, after he hits you with a earth shaker comes backbreaker, after that is staggering blow. You know why that is the combo? Because +25% damage vs stunned foes via merciless hammer trait. Throw a sigil of impact and it becomes +35% damage if you take unsuspecting foe then you could possible have 100% chance to crit depending on how you gear.

So there is your hammer warrior, optimal is to keep the person chained stunned so that you can maximize damage. In order to proc these runes a hammer warrior has to stun you let the stun wear off and then stun you again let that wear off and stun you again. Thats bad hammer play and a bad opponent if you keep getting hit with hammers very easy to tell attacks.

If a hammer warrior ran this it would be 20 strength, 20 defense at a minimum to get the cd reduction trait. Then what are they running? Probably apothecary which is lololol on a hammer warrior.

Serious question have you ever played a warrior? That would be terrible on a warrior. Can you do it? Yes can you probably get 25 stacks? Yes and where is the rest of your damage coming from in apothecary or rabid gear? Plus it would be the only condi the warrior applied and you can wipe it who cares if its 25 stacks.

I mean when you see a warrior swap to hammer you know whats coming right?

A warrior running hammer for damage is scarier than a warrior trying to stack confusion on me. Why go for 25 stacks of confusion when you can get 8k backbreakers, 3k staggering blows, and 4-5k earthshakers. If you can hit all those against a bad player for direct damage that can’t be wiped then why on earth would you try to stack confusion because to get the stacks to 25 you won’t chain stun.

Ok after playing it and adjusting builds on my mesmer and a friend of mine transferred to opposite server and we did many duels.

So far mesmer hands down takes advantage of this rune more than anyone else its not even a competition with duelist and a glamour field and a mantra.

I have these runes on my thief can’t beat this on my p/d thief unless I run venom share thieves guild cheese. Against another class the runes are decent for the confusion proc with headshot IF they keep spamming skills. You don’t get any mileage on the d/p off set because you don’t have another cover condi to apply.

We dueled with my ele and it was rough even 30 water I couldn’t beat him.

On my warrior with mace/shield and greatsword it wasn’t the confusion that was a problem(it does good damage) but just can’t lock the mesmer down if he is running staff and PU makes it hard to land the important mace attacks because of aegis. It feels doable if I run beserkers stance and and 3 stabilities but its not so much the runes that are the problem its just that I can’t keep the gap closed but its always been that way warrior vs mesmer.

On my Necro it’s not really a contest I can transfer the conditions back pretty easily with 2 weapon skills if I ran plague signet it would be another way to transfer the condi’s back. This fight was really more in my favor just because the condi transfer abilities of necro’s with bleeds, burning and fear with flesh golem and ds to eat damage. I dropped the perplexity runes on my necro and went back to my old setup. Just cant get good mileage out of them on necro imo. Theif takes better advantage of them then a necro does.

Mesmer vs Mesmer same spec is alot of fun its mind games baiting you have to really think about when to attack time interrupts it is alot of fun mesmer vs mesmer in this setup.

Other mesmer dueled him they didn’t really beat him unless one mesmer did go full zerk phantasm and won a few times. GS in this fight is not to hot as the auto attack is easily interrupted.

I don’t know I don’t think the rune is overpowered at all or needs a ICD. It will probably get one because people keep claiming it is overpowered.

It requires 2 willing participants to get the 25 stacks 1 person spamming interrupts and another person spamming skills then requires the person that is spamming skills to keep spamming skills to kill themselves.

The rune is still the best on a mesmer hands down because no other class has confusion inherently on such a large amount of skills.

A Condition warrior usually goes Sword/sword for torment and bleeds. the off set usually is bow for burning. So now the off set would probably be mace/shield. I don’t find the condi warrior build all that good except for novelty. Just because a warrior can stack 25 stacks of confusion in a situation that requires at least one person to be a bad player doesn’t make it unbalanced at all.

I can stack 25 bleeds on someone if they just stand there and don’t wipe nobody says bleed stacking is OP.

OP/broken just gets thrown around in this game alot on the forums people love to claim their build they made is OP (for shock value and views)

A warrior can get 25 stacks of confusion easily with this rune all null and void if the enemy has stability.

Even the warrior running around on the forums who is using the rune said he saw a ele melt with 25 stacks of confusion on him. Did the elementalist forget to pop armor of earth? Swap to water? Use ether renewal? Seriously? A warrior is pumping out bleeds regularly, torment occasionally, and? Confusion with these runes occasionally.

If I am running Mace/Shield on my warrior I am running GS in a unsuspecting foe build with power and crit damage not running condition damage.

selan.8354:

oZii.2864:

selan.8354:

Hardbrain.8067:

The main problem I find with this rune to take maximum advantage of the total set [6) 15% confusion duration (causes 10 seconds of confusion on interrupt] is that the interrupts traits are all in Domination (II, XII + Dazzling, Wastrel Punishment), Dueling (XII) and Chaos (VIII, XI).

So it’s very difficult to have a build/armor set that is hybrid between power and confusion and be effective.

yeah not to mention that any other class can interrupt way better and therefore is now the better confusion dealer. well done anet! now confusion is easy to stack for professions that arent actually ment to be experts for confusion! ugh

If you look at runes as a whole they pretty much are designed to give other classes abilities that others have inherently. I wont say all runes are like that but there are alot of runes where you can see the bonuses are extremely common to traits.

As far as interrupts you don’t have to try to interrupt just think of the 6 piece as a bonus a awesome passive effect then just play normal. It really isn’t hard to get good confusion stacks on people with this as a mesmer. The only other classes I can see getting close to as many stacks as a mesmer are warriors with their distracting strikes trait and and engi’s.

I do feel that any professions condition damage build that ran runes of the undead this rune is the bis now. Really they should take runes like afflicted and others and give it a chance to proc on hit (instead of you getting hit) that would put them on par with this rune. The 4 piece bonus is really the gem here.

what about necros?they will try to get fear to work with this…..that would destroy groups in wvw even more with all the additional conditions they can apply. and then on interrupts? i mean wtf? most of the other runes have like 90 sec cd’s this one will trigger all the time, no cd, no nothing just another free thing that mesmers could use and used to be specialized in. so what are we now?
veilbots?twarp bots? portal bots?is there anything that makes us complete specialists in one area?
so then i want a rune that gives me the ability to do a 8k backstap, or a rune that gives me a necro mark, and a rune that gives me binding roots, and a permastealth rune , and all that oh and i would like to be able to stack burning up to 9 stacks too!

Necro’s are already using the rune (I have it on my necro also) the only interrupt necro’s have that proc the 6th piece bonus of the rune is warhorn and spectral grasp(30 sec cd not traited).

The gem is the 4 piece for a necro the 6 piece won’t get much mileage from a condi necro because most condi necros run off hand dagger because transferring 3 conditions to the enemy 900 range on a weapon skill with 18 sec cooldown is to good to give up for the warhorn stun that requires you to be in 600 range and most condi necro’s don’t want to be at 600 range unless they are in DS.

Fear says interrupt but it doesn’t actually count as a interrupt when it comes to the purpose of these runes. Neither does warriors fear or the fear that thieves steal.

From playing it on my necro it’s ok but not spectacular I will probably switch my necro back to 5 engineer 1 crest of rabid because I like the extra toughness over what really amounts to 3 stacks of confusion for 10 secs on a 15 sec cd. As a mesmer we all know 3 stacks of confusion really isn’t much, though for a necro is makes a decent cover condi.