Guild Wars 2

The recent discussion about the “best” class mechanic made me think of a more objective way to measure the class mechanics.

The idea is that warriors have the highest base health, highest base armor but the most basic class mechanic. Health and Armor can be converted to vitality/toughness and classes “buy” their better class mechanic with these attribute points. The difference between high and medium/low health is worth 330/750 vitality and medium/low armor is worth 150/290 toughness. This gives the following ranking by cost from the cheapest to the most expensive mechanic:

• 0 points: Adrenaline and Burst Skill

• 290 points: Life Force, Death Shroud with 5 skills

• 490 points: Choice of two pets, one active; 1 active pet skill

• 490 points: 4 Toolbelt skills depending on heal/utilites; 1 weapon set, but Kits

• 620 points: 4 Shatter Skills; Illusions (Clones and Phantasms)

• 750 points: 3 Virtues with an passive and active effect

• 900 points: Initiative, Steal; Stealth and Stealth Skills (#1), #3 depends on both weapons

• 1040 points: 1 weapon set with 4 attunements (10 additional skills); Range-Locked, but Conjures

Italic Mechanics are strictly speaking not class mechanics, but are still an integral part of the class.

Do you think that the class mechanics are worth the cost? Which mechanics are overpriced/underpriced? Do you agree with that ranking? Have I missed something obvious? Discuss.

Edit: Because there is some confusion in the first few posts: It’s not only about survivability

I just used toughness/vitality as reference how I calculated the attribute cost of the class mechanics. It’s not only about survivability though. I just used the attribute points as measurement of how powerful the class mechanics are (or should be) compared to each other. For example: Are attunements really twice as powerful as the toolbelt skills?

Translating mechanics into raw stats can be a helpful tool for balancing. Somewhere in a balancing discussion a dev said that a GM trait is/should be worth about 300 attribute points. With the trait updates we see that exact number ingame: XIII: Force of Will: +300 Vitality.

Rabbitstew.2756:

Besides, if we’re going to get rid of food in WvW, I vote to get rid of Ascended/Legendary equipment — it gives power creep and it takes forever to get. Pay2Win. Wait… thinking about it now, I say no to Exotics! Those cost money and have too many stat points! And how about those Rares and Masterworks! … See where I’m going with this?

Yes, I see your argument, but it is flawed: The game is balanced around a game mode with exotic stats without food. Any deviation from that breaks the balance. But yes, if the food stays, the condi foods should at least be balanced: 40% condi duration is worth 400 stat points and not 100.

Btw: I’m still against the power creep indroduced with Ascended, but that will also never change back…

It seems to me that ANet forgot that they implemented the great wallet system for account bound currencies. While they said that they won’t release new currencies after the introduction of the wallet, we got new account-bound tokens in the living story updates, such as:

• Blade Shards
• Festival Tokens
• Queen’s Gauntlet Entrance Tickets (?)
• Geodes

Is there any reason that these don’t get an entry in the wallet? I know that Blade Shards are used in Mystic Forge recipies, but a vendor could sell a “Gift of Enough Blade Shards” for the MF – similar to the Gift of Ascension for Fractal Relics.

Maybe the AoE reflects (Feedback, Wall of Reflection) work differently, but you can play ping pong with personal reflects (Magnetic Aura/Wave, Mirror). Quite fun to see Stone Daggers + Rockbarrier>Hurl flying multiple times between you and your target.

It could also be an issue with Dagger Storm and other bouncing projectiles, but projectiles can definitely reflected multiple times.

The most important feature would be that builds could be easily “pinged” in chat and that others can easily load it on their character or save it for later. That is what GW1 people actually ask for if they say “templates”

Personally, I’d seperate the build templates from the skin templates, for the following reasons:

• It allows to load templates for builds or skins without overwriting the current skins or build

• Without skins, the template is probably short enough to be shared by chat-codes, which is important for easy ingame sharing.

Splitting the other classes’ auto-attack-equivalent across 4 attunements does not create complexity but only APM. Or: rotating F123F223F323F423 over and over is not any more complex than 1111111.

Attunements should be about chosing the right tools at the right time. What’s wrong with the idea of staying fire as long as possible for damage if you don’t need to defend yourself? I know that it’s not a good idea in the current state of the ele, but why should you dance attunements, if sustained damage is all you need?

I don’t want burst options on a single attunement. I really like the cross-attunement bursts, but they should be rewarding (they lock your attunements/defensive tools after all) and not a spammable rotation that is damage-wise comparable to a auto-attack-chain. I’m thinking of a toned-down version of S/D with some sustained damage during that 40s cooldown.

The discussion is not about whether or not the ele should switch attunements (the answer to that is pretty obvious), but why the ele should attunement dance:

1. Attunement dance for baseline dps
2. Attunement switches to adapt to a new combat situation

The concept of the ele is (2), but currently the ele is busy switching because of (1). The change to the attunement cooldown did nothing to help (2), but pushed the elementalist further to (1).

What the ele really needs are 4 attunement sets that are viable on their own on each weapon combination (with different focus on damage, support, cc, single target/aoe). Then the ele could finally use the attuments strategically and not stance dancing for auto attack dps.

The core of a wvw dps staff build is 2/2/0/2/2 with Blasting Staff and the flat damage multiplicators in fire/air/water. From there, it depends on your preferences.

• 6 in fire is nice, as it allows you to reduce the cooldowns of fire skills and either taking XI for might+fury support or XII for more personal might

• The new XIII trait in air is also nice in wvw, because it adds damage to your mass interrupts

• 2 in earth for auto Armor of Earth

• 4 in water for more survivability and support

• 4 in Arcana for Elemental Attunement (personally, the ele doesn’t feel complete without it even if you switch less on a staff build

I really like idea behind the new trait system, but I don’t like the current implementation.

Level 30 rather late for unlocking traits. Why do late levels award 2 trait points? I think, the trait points should be spread more evenly: 1 point every 5 levels, starting from 15 or 1 point every 4 levels, starting from 28.

Level 80 for GM traits is too late. Some of them greatly influence the gameplay and it’s too late to start playing the class properly at 80, imo. The old 11/40/60 caps for trait tiers seemed reasonable, why change those?

Traits challenges should be completable, as soon as the corresponding tier is unlocked. Why on earth does completing Frostgeorge Sound award an Adept tier trait? No trait challenge should require a level at which already the next trait tier is unlocked.

Trait challenges are too vary too much in difficulty or time reqired. How are 100% a map, completing a jumping puzzle/minidungeon, killing a world boss on a ridiculously high respawn timer, a story mode dungeon and capturing keep equal?

Trait guides are too expensive. This puts new players at a serious disadvantage. Old players paid only 4.10g for all traits, new players 43g+360skill points. Buying all old (I-XII) traits should cost 8g at max, and cost either gold or skill points (or wvw badges)

Edit: I forgot to add, that the high cost in gold+skillpoints or time has another side-effect besides unfairness to new players and annoyance: People will most likely stick to the cookie cutter builds, because they don’t want to waste money or time on useless traits. What is the need of free respecs anytime, when you only have 7 major traits unlocked? Only pre-patch 80’s really profit from the current system: they got cheap traits and can respec anytime with all I-XII traits in any line.

How I would fix stealth:

• Stealth does not stack anymore. (but it can still chained by using a stealthing skill in stealth)
• Activating a skill unstealths. Not attacking, not hitting, activating. The revealed debuff is only applied after a successful attack, however.

The first one is just to prevent stealth stacking to abnormal durations via smoke fields. If you want to be stealthed for more than 3-6 seconds, time your stealthing cooldowns.

The second one is to prevent mesmers from casting phatasms in stealth or thieves from spamming backstab until it finally hits. Both get one chance to fire off one skill and if that wasn’t successful, they can still re-stealth if a CD is available. Revieled apllies only on hit and can maybe reduced to 3s again.

Relentless.7023:

You can get mad all you want, the truth is Anet isn’t responsible for what you do with the options available. You are.

(…)

If you aren’t running apex predator builds you have no one to blame but yourself. It’s stupid not to.

So, you are suggesting that we should just reroll if (because?) ANet fails to balance?

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Elementalists also get to bring healing, damage, spike and defense BY DEFAULT!

Today I learned that “by default” means:

• Investing 20 trait points for boon on attunement
• Investing 20 trait points for a condi-cleanse and heal
• Blowing a 3min elite to power up a single skill
• Blowing 3 utilites for one spike every 40 seconds

Eles have at least to sacrifice survivability for damage … something you cannot say about all classes…

Okay, here’s a suggestion that leaves skillful thieves nearly untouched while punishing spamming: Thief weapon skills get a “soft cooldown” of 5s. In this 5s, thieves CAN activate the skill again, but it costs 2 more initiative. In addition, stealth skills cost 1 initative and get the soft cooldown as well.

This way, (ab)using the same skill over and over will deplete the initiative faster. Thieves are still able to burn their initiative for a burst or emergency evades, but not as often as now. The change to the stealth skills is mainly to award the counterplay of the thief’s enemy: If he dodges/blocks/evades a stealth attack, he successfully drained 2 initiative from the thief’s pool. The current reveal mechanics are untouched.

LordByron.8369:

Earth 3 dagger was another gap closer (skill changed to reduce mobility)
Personally, I like the current version more. Before that change, Magnetic Grasp was a 1s self-stun at the target. Now I can choose between immobilise alone and immobilise+buggy leap

Updraft was a launch couldn t be stunbroken until landed on the floor
a general mechanic fix, at least that one affected all classes equally

ICD put on evasive arcana
evasive arcana was blast in all attunements.
okay, I really forgot those

My all time favourite
Glyph of renewal was able to ress dead people, was faster and affected NPCs.
The latter was nerfed on every class except one… (can you guess wich?)
at least Glyph of Renewal works now … and it can rez dead NPCs

[…]

Answer in quote

Lalangamena.3694:

what nerfs? o_O ?

Incase that was not sarcastic … all of them:

• autoattack and Arcane Wave/Blase damage nerfs in the beta
• Whirlpool -30% damage
• RtL, the only gap closer with penalty for running away or missing
• removal of stun breakers from Cleansing Fire/Lightning flash
• removal of speed boost from Mist Form, Mist Form locks utilities as well
• ICD on Cleansing Wave, but that gets undone
• nerf on Signet of Restoration (gets undone as well?)
• Elemental Attunement, Cleansing Wave and Soothing Disruption moved to master tier

Have I missed something?

I’d take a more pragmatic route: Rebalance the HP tiers from 10000/15000/18000 to 14000/15000/16000. The difference between min and max HP is equivalent to 200 vitality, just like the difference between min and max armor is about 200 toughness.

Alternatively, ANet could just reduce the ridiculously high cooldowns and give us traits that actually help us and not just establish baseline class functionality.

I really like the idea that the Alacrity traits become 10 or 15 point traits, but my fear is, that the ele cooldowns will even more balanced against that 20% reduction.

Healing Ripple (the 15pt trait in the water line) heals only once when you attune to water. However, the 5pt trait Soothing Mist applies a small regernation effect to you and 4 allies. Since you can’t take Healing Ripple without Soothing Mist, you’ll notice both – an instant heal and a regeneration.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

You have to actually USE the knockback, if you don’t want to knock them back – Don’t (…) As i said they are PLAYER activated. The knockback is the #3 skill. If you don’t want to knock them back – Don’t use it.

You cannot not use the launch on Tornado. Tornado pulses every 3 seconds the damage and an AoE launch. In addition, you can queue one of the 3 skills (lightning, blind, knockback) to be activated shortly after each damage+launch pulse.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado

Tornado needs a rework. It’s an AoE skill that blows its target out of the AoE range. The blinds on cc’d targets are wasted. It locks all other skills but still lacks defense against ranged targets. It needs ridiculous stat boosts to deal damage that are better used for meteor shower.

Tornado needs a clear purpose. If it’s cc, get rid of the stat boosts (maybe even of all damaging components except the finsher), but give it projectile destruction like Swirling Winds. If it’s damage, delete the periodical blow out, but give it some active defenses. AoE blind/knockdown/blowout would make so much more sense if they were player-activated and not passive ticking.

The stat boosts while in Tornado form are intended. What’s unintended, is that it’s the only viable use of Tornado.

Iavra.8510:

Well, at least staff eles are capable of 6k autoattacks in fire. I wouldn’t really want to buff this one at least.

No need to buff that one, it’s in line with other ranged auto attacks. Compared to Spatial Surge, Fire Ball is a bit stronger at 600 range, but weaker at 900 range. Fireball dps-wise Long Range Shot (at 500+ range), but weaker than Long Range Shot at 1000+ range or Crossfire. The real problem are the other 3 staff auto attacks.

In skill coeff / second:

• Winds of Chaos (without cond): 0.30 / 1.35 = 0.22
• Water Blast: 0.30 / 1.35 = 0.22
• Stoning: 0.50 / 1.35 = 0.37
• Chain Lightning: 0.55 / 1.17 = 0.47
• Spatial Surge (600): 0.81 / 1.4 = 0.58
• Fireball: 0.85 / 1.4 = 0.61
• Long Range Shot (500): 0.65 / 1.0 = 0.65
• Spatial Surge (900): 0.95 / 1.4 = 0.68
• Crossfire (without bleed): 0.4 / 0.54 = 0.75
• Long Range Shot (1000): 0.90 / 1.0 = 0.90

nekretaal.6485:

That’s just to get any real use out of the class, and doesn’t count all of the spatial awareness and cooldown managing that the profession requires. A buff to auto attacks isn’t going to change any of that (…)

I disagree here. The core problem of the ele in the current state is that base line dps requires constant attunement swapping. Most of your defensive or utility tools on the weapon set are on attunement cooldown and not available when you need them.

That would not a problem if the #1s dealt viable sustained damage. The player could decide wheter he stays in one attunement for safe dps or if he risks putting all attunements on cooldown for a burst combo. Right now eles have the choice between poor dps (auto attacking) or baseline sustained dps (attunement dancing). Burst is currently only possible by blowing Utilities as well.

@Screensot in OP: The only thing that the screenshot proves is how weak FGS is without wall or teleport.

I think that Immobilise (and Fear for that matter) should be CC effects and not conditions.

Pro:
+ Immobilise and Fear won’t profit from condi-duration
+ stun breakers work on immobilise
+ they are not stackable, multiple Fears/Immobilises at the same time will be wasted
+ stability would grant immobilise immunity as well

Contra:
- condi cleanses won’t work anymore for Fear/Immobilise

azerte.4365:

Well guess what they’re here and thieves aren’t the only one who have access to them, even eles can deal 12k dmg. So i’d say learn to live with them.

I knew it was too subtle, but I mentioned thief, warrior and ele in my post, but that’s not even the point. The point is, that one-shots – regardless of class – are not a “deal with it” issue, but an alarm sign of broken balance.

And sorry, I can’t take anyone who defends one-shot mechanics seriously in a balance discussion.

azerte.4365:

If you play an ele with 12k and get backstabbed for 13k damage then you are GC, in which case you have 0 right to complain about getting oneshot.

This is where you are wrong. No class in any build should be able to one-shot another class with any build. It doesn’t matter if the one shot is on a single stealth ability, on a F1 with 9s cooldown or a perfectly executed 10 skill rotation which uses all utilities and has a cooldown of 40s.

One-shots should not happen. ever.

MrFluffy.9307:

so at which point will stacking toughness become less important than vitality?

When trying to maximize eHP, it’s easy: Compare HP vs total armour * 10. Increase the lower number*. Note that toughness also increases the efficiency of heals, but is useless against conditions.

* The proof is left as exercise for the reader.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Removing Spirits would be a pretty big change to the class. Additionally, they are part of the “spirit” (sorry, had to) of the Ranger. I do think the idea to add it to the pet is interesting, though I’m not sure how it really makes sense (the pets aren’t the ones drawing from nature, it’s the Ranger).

Do you have any thoughts or ideas that wouldn’t necessarily remove them, but maybe help to lessen the body blocking as you said?

It’s funny that you use a lore argument here, because nature spirits only exist because of a balancing decision in GW1: Before the ranger set spirits with a health bar, nature rituals hat indefinite range and only one hard counter: the Unnatural Signet (Mesmer).

Personally, I really like the idea that the ranger imbues his pet with the Spirit of Water/Sun/Stone/Frost/Zephyr/Renewal, both mechanics-wise (as Atherakhia suggested) and lore-wise. It’s still the ranger’s energy, but he uses his companion as focus.

This change would make ranger pets a higher-priority target, remove visual clutter, and free up a master trait slot for tanky/supportive specs: Nature Magic VII, Spirits Unbound, would just be obsolete.

I somehow knew that there will be a better place for this, but I couldn’t find it…

Edit: Ah, it’s linked in the CDI master thread

Overview
Introduce a new Subforum dedicated to CDI.

Goals

• A better overview over current CDIs (currently CDIs are mega-threads in their respective subforum)
• A better overview over Proposals
• Better ability to discuss the proposals

Realization

• Create a new subforum dedicated to CDIs with one thread per proposal
• or create forum category for CDI, with subforums per CDI topic with threads per proposal

The proposals should have tags to mark the CDI topic ([Ranger], [Fractals]) if there is only a CDI subforum, and a set of tags to mark the scope of the proposal inside the topic (for example [PvE],[PvP],[all] for ranger discussion, [Balance],[Rewards] for fractal discussion)

Current Problems

• Nobody wants to “clutter” the CDI thread with discussion, because it only contains proposal posts. I’ll call that proposal phase
• I predict a discussion phase where the thread mainly contains discussion posts. It will be hard to track multiple discussions in the same thread to different proposals
• Early discussion posts will be overlooked in proposal phase, late proposals will be overlooked in the discussion phase

Risks

• It’s too late for the current CDI
• Developers have to keep an eye on a whole subforum instead of a single thread (but only look at the first post in each thread)
• It’s harder to compare/discuss similar proposals. A meta thread may help, but that would spread the discussion out even more.
• Unpopular proposals could be buried on page 2 where nobody reads them. This could lead to unnecessary bump posts. Solution: Ability to sort threads by creation date, not date of the last post.

Discuss.

Not a fractal issue per se, but with the item tier introduced with them.

Proposal Overview
Revert the stat increase introduced with Ascended gear

Goal of Proposal

• Remember the initial design idea of Ascended gear: Ascended should only be needed for slotting Agony Resistance for Fractals
• Remember the Manifesto.
• Improve WvW vs. PvP balance: Balance across game modes is easier to achieve if the equipment is equally powerful in all game modes. Ascended Weapons introduced another layer of power creep in WvW: the 5% increased weapon damage stacks multiplicatively with any WvW stat increases (buff food, guard leech, guild boni)

Proposal Functionality

• Ascended equipment has the same base defense, weapon damage and attribute boni as their Exotic counterparts
• Ascended equipment keeps the infusion slot(s)

The hard part is calming the player base and compensating for the grind time-gated crafting materials. I propose that

• players can choose the stat distribution on ascended gear, just like on Legendary weapons
• owners of a Legendary can also choose the Sigil along with the stat distribution
• already existing Ascended equipment is reverted to Accont Bound + Soulbound on Equip once, for those who already have multiple sets of Ascended gear

Associated Risks

• drama, flame wars and apocalypse on the forums
• potential item sinks are removed from the game: once someone has transmuted an Ascended set on his favourite skins, there is no need for an Exotic second set or to re-transmute for stats. Transmuting for other/new skins is still mandatory, though

PvE/Dungeon: I’m running a support build (0/10/10/30/20) and usually don’t need the #6 heal. I use Arcane Brilliance primary as a blast finisher that doesn’t take away a precious utility slot and also procs Altruism runes. So yes, I really like Arcane Brilliance, but no, not as heal skill.

Hm… strong against the condi meta could mean

• that the ICD on Cleansing Water falls and maybe improved access to regeneration
• an ele-exclusive anti-condition boon (that will be accessible to other professions later)
• a ridicolously buffed Diamond Skin, that gets nerfed in the next patch
• no changes to ele beyond that what we already know, but nerfs to the condi meta in general

That’s actually the order I thought of, so I should stop thinking before it gets worse…

Einlanzer.1627:

Since the #1 has less of an impact in PvP than it does in PvE, I’m not holding my breath for it to ever be fixed, which honestly frustrates the hell out of me.

So, just hope that attrition gameplay will become the PvP meta that the auto attacks imbalance matters also there?

The fastest AA hit once in a second. There’s no compiled list of skill aftercasts (or none that I’m aware of) but the wiki states the attack frequency of all auto attacks (and whole AA chains) in the articles.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Claw
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Blade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Whip
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impale_%28elementalist_skill%29

The problem with the min-maxed dps ele (LH or Fire Staff) is only playable in an organized, full zerker dungeon group, while a berserker warrior is also playable in PUGs due to the higher sustain (triple eHP). That’s the main reason I run a more balanced build (but then it’s clear that the zerker warrior deals 2x the damage with AA alone).

But yes, ele is perfectly playable in PvE and WvW zergs.

The same reason Comet has a red circle … for allies.

zapv.8051:

If there was a gear that gave condition damage precision and condition duration I believe condition specs would be much more viable in PVE.

No.

Tim.6450:

Rhyse.8179:

All of them. Assuming we are comparing equivalient skill types, like autoattack. A condition damage skill will do roughly 50% more damage then a power skill- the catch is that it can be cleansed and that damage is stretched out.

If that were true then conditions would be desired in pve but they don’t. Kinda strange right?

No. The core problem im PvE is that a single condi-specced player can reach 25 stacks of bleeding (enemies don’t cleanse). Many classes perma-burn enemies as part of their normal rotation without any investment in conditions. Confusion is useless in PvE because of the low attack frequencies of enemies. In a dungeon group of 5 (or a world boss zerg of 20/50/100) you need only one condition-based character, a second one would be a potential dps loss due to the bleeding cap of 25.

In short: That conditions are “useless” in PvE has more to do with practical limitations than dps. It’s no indication for the power level of conditions in PvP

CC Danicia.1394:

Just spoke to the team. Scarlet’s Lair will be sticking around!

… but the chests will be removed!

jk

I really like that idea.

• Stealth is a boon, which gets corrupted to Revealed
• Revealed is a condition, which gets converted to Stealth
• Both don’t stack, their max stack limit is 1.

Thieves, please. Don’t whine about weapon cooldowns. Ever.

If you ever cared to calculate the effective cooldowns of your weapon skills or
calculated which ridiculous forms of cooldown reduction in form of initiative
gain you have, ontop of a chill immunity for weapon cooldowns, you’ll never
complain about your “cooldowns” again.

6 initiative = 8 seconds cooldown. wow. What a contraint for a #5 skill.
2 initiative every 10 seconds = 20% cooldown reduction. Here are the calculations from 7 months ago. The skills/traits are not up to date, the numbers still are.

BBT: I think Backstab (along with any stealth skill) should have a low (1 or 2) initiative cost to actually punish thieves spamming the #1 key until the skill finally hits. That way, dodging/blocking/evading/aegising an anticipated backstab would cost the thief initiative. Currently it only costs the player who “countered” a backstab a cooldown or energy with no real gain.

1. Elemenntalist
2. Ranger
3. Mesmer

I’d remove that filler minor traits. Water is the only line where you get 6 meaningful traits for 30 points. Either make Elemental Attunement or that 15-point spells or Elemental Attunement a baseline class mechanic. I’d favour the first one, because it would free 4 trait slots.

Changes in detail:

• The on-attunement spells (15 point minors: Sunspot, Electric Discharge, Earthen Blast, Healing Ripple) are part of the attunement mechanic.

• Lingering Elements and the 5 point minors (Flame Barrier, Zephyr’s Speed, Stoneflesh) are deleted. Soothing Mist is powerful and can be shifted further into the Water tree.

• new 5 Point Traits: Gain <element> aura for 2 seconds (fire: 5s or buff fire aura) when you attune to <element>. Zephyr’s Boon and Elemental Shielding need to be toned down (1-2s fury/swiftness/protection). Arcane Fury can stay.

• new 15 Point Traits: <element> training: Reduce the recharge of <element> weapon skills by 25%. Arcane 15: Elemental Attunement.

• The 25 point traits could stay. I’d shift Bountiful Power from Water to Arcane to make place for Soothing Mist. Bountiful Power makes more sense in the Arcane line, because it’s the boon duration line and already offers Elemental Attunement and Arcane Fury for synergy with Bountiful Power. Also, Arcane Precision is not a loss.

With that changes elementalists could run 30/30/10 specs and choose two of: Persisting Flames, Fresh Air, Diamond Skin, Powerful Auras/Cleansing Water, Evasive Arcana without the cost of wasted minor traits. Or even a 15/15/15/15/15 stance dancer.

Speaking of pure eHP, the total HP:Armor ratio should be 10:1. Elementalists start at ~10.000HP and ~1800Armor that means having ~800 more vitality than toughness would be optimal. Theoretically.

But here are the buts:

• Thoughness also increases the effectiveness of heals.
• Conditions bypass toughness, but not not vitality.
• You have to choose from the available stat combos.

More pragmatic PvE advice: Power > all. That leaves Berserker, Valkyrie, Soldier and Zealot. Start with Berserker armor and Soldier trinkets (or the other way round if you can replace the armor more easily) and replace Soldier with Berserker as long as you can keep yourself alive. Keep the soldier stuff in your inventory for the case you have a bad day/have difficulties in a dungeon/want to set foot in WvW.

I run 0/10/10/30/20 and change weapons (sometimes even traits) multiple times in dungeons.
-
My default set is D/F fury-swiftness-protection-aura-share, because most of the dungeon bosses are done in melee. If I have to go ranged, it’s S/F, but I swap the aura traits (air-10, earth-10, water-30) out for something else (glyph recharce, auto-armor-of-earth or just flat damage bonuses).

When survining is easy and projectile-hate is not needed (CoF, multiple guardians in the group, …) I use offhand dagger (D/D with aura traits, S/D without).

I use staff when the group needs the AoE heals/clenses or if we stay at max range.

If you ask me, it’s not about deciding for a single weapon set, but about knowing when to use what.

I’ll rather have a refund on the stat combination that gets the real nerf: celestial.

To increase build diversity, we need to free up trait points. Some ideas:

• Some mechanics, which cost trait points, should be defined as base class mechanic. That could be elemental attunement or all the 15 point on-attunement spells.

• Get rid of the 5 point traits and lingering elements. This is not a loss, because a dev confirmed that the “while in X attunement” traits will never work with lingering elements – except the 5 point traits. Soothing Mist could make a comeback as the 25 trait in water.

• Make minor traits useful. One reason why the water line is so popular is that it offers 6 good traits for 30 points – as opposted to 3 or 4 in other lines.

Now imagine the build possibilities with the following minor traits:

• Sunspot, Electric Discharge, Earthen Blast and Healing Ripple become part of the class mechanic
• 5pt minors: Gain <element> aura for 2s (fire: 5s). Arcane Fury stays as it is.
• 15pt minors: Reduce the recharge of <element> weapon skills by 20%. Arcane: Elemental attunement.
• 25pt minors: Keep then as they are exept for water (Soothing Mist) and Arcane (Bountyful Power, Arcane is the boon duration tree anyway)

IchigoHatake.5098:

@pmnt, you just said elementalists are underpowered yet you want to nerf elementalists even more.

I just don’t want to read whining about ele just because there is one 10 skill combo that blows every utility and has a cooldown of forty-five seconds. That that combo is untelegraphed is a valid complain, no matter how bad the current state of the ele is. I’d rather tone down that spike (rework of LF + scpeter skills) and buff everything else than leave ele in its current state because of one gimmicky combo.

Edit: 45 → forty-five, because kitten .

I agree that elementalists are currently underpowered, but that untelegraphed S/D combo should be toned down. The first thing would be deleting the damage component of Lightning Flash and making it a stun breaker again. That would be a buff to elementalists while also reducing the damage of that combo.

If if still deals too much damage … it’s a tough one. I wouldn’t change Hurl, Earthquake, Static Discharce or the Arcanes … which only leaves Lightning Strike. But giving Lightning Strike a cast time would require a rework of all Scepter-Air skills – maybe not a bad idea.