Guild Wars 2

oZii.2864:

Is OP just the word for strong or good nowadays? I always thought OP meant broken, imbalanced etc.

Guess its like troll someone that disagrees is a troll it seems now.

I do think the potential for thief in pve is completely op (meaning the broken, imbalanced type). It’s just a shame hardly anybody wants to take the time and find out just how they can play like that.

idk if the 2 guys above me are talking to me or to others, if to me then you should re-read my post. I’m actually saying the change was a buff.

If you’re talking to others then ignore this post :P. I actually love how the change made it so you can more effectively use stealth in an offensive way instead of just defensive all the time.

Incurafy.6329:

Why does it feel as though the people saying that the Thief traits aren’t lacklustre are the same people who hate the class and want it to be nerfed into oblivion?

Youtube me, thief traits aren’t lackluster.

Wethospu.6437:

MeateaW.3519:

CoF p1 would be truly impressive full solo

I have tried that but couldn’t even get past boulders (not to mention gate-lock…).

Same thing with CoE need at least 1 other guy to do the lazers with you. And even then, that guy has to be super in synch with you to pull it off… For things like that I wish I had 2 pcs and 2 accounts so I wouldn’t need to rely on someone else, effectively stopping them from doing anything that day. And all that effort just so I can try and solo something.

If the lazer room could be skipped then anyone could potentially solo path 1 or 2 (3 has the 3 lazer cannons too…-_-)

well that’s INSANELY lame… so much for getting guild challenge after bounty……. so lame. Why can’t people just build what they want if they have the merits for it. We don’t have the influence to build everything like that so I didn’t want to waste it on crap we don’t even want.

idk how someone would do the running part. Is what would make it so impressive

surprised no one has tried to solo p2 cof yet

I understand where you’re coming from weth but the reason I said it’s harder on thief over war is because if the thief doesn’t have a shadow return set up and ready to go, odds are they’re going to die. I have shadowstep and dagger storm just in case of that exact thing. Shadowstep is great but dagger storm requires me to take 1/3-2/3 of my hp before getting to safety and is only available every 90 seconds. We don’t have warrior resistances and defiantly don’t have shield stand/endure pain/balance stance to tank/get out of hairy situations. Also my evade (was using sword/dagger 3 here for that) isn’t nearly as fast or damaging as whirlwind while also not being a good distance closer, shorter evade time, less damage, and not controllable in where I want to go (which is why I hardly used it :P).

Idk, it’s just different playstyles for the classes. The thief has to plan their attacks and react to others, where as the warrior only needs to react. Not taking anything away from your run, it’s just your class has a few more strengths to work with is all I meant to say.

sorry about the miss link where youtube instantly deleted my vid :S Link is good to go now.

Uploaded my 2nd video of me soloing Lupi. This one is a true solo which should make all the haters happy (or angry idk) :P. Really hope you guys enjoy this as much as I enjoyed getting it for you guys!

SwickHobo.5096:

4: Timing: Rather then panic dodge his large AoE count to 2, much like you would do against Subject alpha, then dodge once, you’ll dodge all the threads near you and they dont land in the same spot twice.

sorry but that’s wrong. If you stand in the same spot, 2 nukes will land in the exact same spot. They only don’t land in the same spot twice if you’re moving. Sometimes standing perfectly still is the best way to dodge attacks.

I just wanted to let you know you made me laugh when I saw this thread. Hope you were being sarcastic when you made it.

p/p is pretty bad in general, only good for guaranteed 1v1 encounters where you don’t need aoe, need guaranteed hits with unload, and the defiance strips/interupts with headshot. Those encounters are few and far between in pve so it’s best to use w.e melee weapon you like the best with sbow. Personally I LOVE d/d but d/p, s/p, and s/d are all good (and I use them all in the situations where they’re needed). If you can’t stand thief melee, p/d is alright but certainly not optimal for pve (pvp it’s pretty amazing on condition/bunker thief).

Wethospu.6437:

As good as the thief solo was, it was not officially a solo, considering he was helped with the ressing, I believe wethu will only post it if its officially done 100% alone.
Yep, because he didn’t. I’m not going to accept partial boss-solos. :P

guess I’ll have to rectify that

Auesis.7301:

I’ll get on recording a Thief Subject Alpha solo, I was intending to for a while anyways. Any requests for a specific version of the possible three?
Do all? :P

good idea

Are you new to thief? You really don’t understand just how speedy thieves are…

Thrill of the crime – 10 points into trickery. Gain fury, might, !!!swiftness!!! when you steal (regardless if you have a target or not).

Fleet shadow – move 50% (that’s faster than swiftness) while invis.

Assassin’s retreat – gain swiftness every time you kill something

And then there’s the signet and healing/stealing gives vigor so added dodges (esp with dodging gives swift). There’s also sbow 5 for free shadowsteps, a shadowstep on steal, the skill shadowstep and roll for initiative for that massive distance mover (takes practice to use it as a gap closer) which gives you more initiative for more shadowsteps.

With all of these things you should NEVER be left wanting for mobility or swiftness

Also with the stealing giving boons traits, you give everyone around you fury, might, swift, and vigor for 10s. It’s pretty kitten strong.

Congrats! Very surprised how much the illusions helped you. Always expected they would have made it harder (grubs and added lifesteal).

Also surprised you let him stay in that one door during p2, everytime I left him there for more than 5 seconds he’d go and reset himself :S. Also, do you know if you can block the grubs in p1? Always wondered about that one

Panacea.4927:

The cripple helps, but its not something other classes cant do either. Everyone has their bunch of CCs and with that it is not something a thief can alone bring to the table. In the end it would be better to have more dedicated CCers there and some who burst them down instead of letting CCs overlay on each other.

Smokescreen is usefull against Tom and one of the only things which work on his poison bullets, but it only blocks one side and yet again a guardian could have done it better and more reliable, so again not a reason to take a thief with you.

Permanent cripple, permanent stun, and doesn’t lose out on dps. Unlike other classes, who only have access to a few cc abilities (and using them usually makes them lose out on dps), thief has spammable hard cc on a high damage attack. We even have a spammable imobilize on the same weapon skill slot as our stun breaker that allows us to jump right back into the combat. Because me and the other thief were stun/cripple locking the grawl, you never got to see either of us pull one of the shamans from near beside one of the captives back to the spawn zone. No other class can bring all of that in 1 package.

Also you obviously have either not watched the video closely, or have no idea how smoke screen works. Place the screen on Tom and it blocks ALL of the projectiles, not just 1 side.

I’ve been busy with life stuff recently but I should be able to put out another vid sometime soon after I do some more fractals just to show the doubters some very shiny moments.

Panacea.4927:

Its funny that in the whole video the guardians shine much more with their wall of reflection, stability and sanctuary as you as thief. The only noteable things here was melting the ice wall with stealth and disableing the trap with the 3 switches, yet these 2 things are not really a real burden anyway.

You obv didn’t see the stunlock/perma cripple on grawl and as I said in the video description, that is just a taste of what thieves are capable of doing. The water super swim isn’t a big deal but it still helps and thief can do it significantly easier than any other class… Every bit helps. Also, in kitty fractal, no reflects work against old tom, only blocks… like smoke screen (granted summon shield and sanctuary both work if placed right). Lastly, this video wasn’t to say thief>guard, not at all. This was just to say thief is good in fractals (they are in the top 3 with guard and mes).

added a new vid showing off just a few things where a thief is more than useful in fractals.

Jaded.8591:

So this is gonna be a really long and annoying route, but why not just make a personal guild for the extra bank slots, with the guild stash and treasure trove. Thats what i am doing and im only 6oo pts away from my stash. could help with the bank slot problem

2 words, account bound. Your guild stash idea now doesn’t work

I really wish they would make a recipe with rings similar to what they have with rares in the mystic forge. 4 rings for a new ring or chance (20% or something) for a random skin. Would be awesome.

not true, sorry

Are they ever going to become salvageable or included in any recipes? As it stands they just aren’t worth selling (4s95c nty) but they also take up a lot of bank slots just because we just can’t do anything with them yet.

Danielapsama.1672:

I’ve seen video’s of people soloing Lupicus, but that’s a bit too time consuming for me, and actually getting to that part in the dungeon would still require a group of people.

Any class can get to lupi solo as well. Any class

Am also full glass thief. It’s the best (imo) build for thief in pve IF you can stay alive with it. I do more damage than a shout warrior but less than a glass warrior but bring more to the team than the glass ever could (aside from the tankiness and bit more dps).

jportell.2197:

so you have to use an item to be useful? And I am sorry but you may be one of the only thieves that is actually useful in dungeons… People start playing thieves to instagib in wvw mostly and when it comes to something they actually have to try at they suck… that is why most people hate thieves in their pugs because most thieves that join pugs suck… If you are the exception to the rule then here is your freaking cookie. Most of the time though they just suck hardcore… And me facetanking bosses usually keeps my group from wiping…

I don’t need the item to be useful, it just makes me less dependant on others and be more self-dependant.

Now I DO understand that there are a LOT of bad thieves out there (there are equal numbers of bad players out in there in different classes but the thief class is less forgiving highlighting the bad players) but the class as a whole is very useful in dungeons. This whole thread was just to say don’t kick thieves just cause they’re a thief since thief is amazing and very useful.

And jport, even though that you don’t like having thieves in your pt (and I can’t stop you from kicking them), I’m just glad that you are starting to realize what a good thief can bring to your pt. IMO, give the player a chance and if they suck bad, block them and know for later. Playing with bad players can be painful but if you find one of the thieves that have mastered their class, you’ll be wanting to group with them all the time because they can bring so much to the team.

jportell.2197:

randomfightfan.4091:

jportell.2197:

Healing shout warrior? Can your thief heal the entire party for 3k? Nah… Didn’t think so…

lol… just lol… some people just… okay yes I can’t heal an entire team for 3k but what I can do as thief is heal my entire party for about 12k every 20s. That is 12k FLAT with regen added in as a little bonus while also cleansing conditions. And that is without the help of ANY teamate. It’s called healing seed mixed with blast finisher. Want another 2k? Shadow refuge. 3+k? shoot through the refuge. PLEASE learn the class before you make comments like this.

healing seed is a racial skill not a thief skill.. Sorry holmes… So if you are sylvari doing that good on ya. But most thieves use that clusterbomb blast finisher on their enemy and not their party… How about making sure the entire parties damage gets cut in half? Thieves can’t do that. One bunker mes can handle that… And we can face tank the bosses while everyone else is DPSing them from range… Also returning multiple hits of retaliation to the boss doing something two fold protecting party and damaging boss.

healing seed is an item not a racial skill, I’m a norn… Sorry holmes. I can use the leap finisher on hs or the blast finisher on cluster to heal the team if they’re melee around me with that combo. And with that item, I keep the entire team alive while still dishing out insane dps while also facetanking the boss. And you know what else works well? Not facetanking bosses but actually circle strafing and kiting. When you have people who know what they’re doing, the bunker mes will do jack squat but timewarp every 3 mins while a thief will dish out insane dps and be helpful.

I have 30 ar and have been doing frak 38 and 48 since before they soft capped 50. At 38 I would NEVER die at maw and 48 I would only down if I got hit by a boss.

Yesterday was the first time I’ve done fraks since going from 35 ar back down to 30 and I immediately knew something was wrong. No matter what I did at maw, I would die. I would be full hp at the start, use my heal skill, and drop shadow refuge on top of me b4 going down. It didn’t matter. A week ago I would go into maw with half hp and not even go down. I have 13k hp total and each tick was doing unusually high 3k ticks. I had both of my infused rings on and my backpiece wasn’t even damaged.

At 48, it didn’t matter what boss it was, if I touched the agony, it would full kill me. Before it would just down me (or I could survive with like 100hp if I was full and used hide in shadows). This was VERY uncharacteristic of how agony used to act so it leads me to believe it was some sort of bug that caused this but if not then what’s happening?

jportell.2197:

Healing shout warrior? Can your thief heal the entire party for 3k? Nah… Didn’t think so…

lol… just lol… some people just… okay yes I can’t heal an entire team for 3k but what I can do as thief is heal my entire party for about 12k every 20s. That is 12k FLAT with regen added in as a little bonus while also cleansing conditions. And that is without the help of ANY teamate. It’s called healing seed mixed with blast finisher. Want another 2k? Shadow refuge. 3+k? shoot through the refuge. PLEASE learn the class before you make comments like this.

thief if you actually like having fun. If not then go guard, war, or mes

idk if this has been asked yet but I haven’t seen it so here I go.

If you are a part of multiple guilds that do guild missions and you do the content, are you able to get the chest multiple times a week for the same mission type? I already know that if you complete, say tier 3 of bounty on 1 guild, then do tier 2 with the same guild, you won’t get a 2nd reward.

haviz.1340:

My build was something like 0/30/0/20/20, zerker with scholar runes. Though I’m curious about thief’s build.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see it’s 0-30-0-30-10.

Also, I’d want some good thief to teach me how to play them, I’m mostly responsible for rezzes in dungeons runs and I’d like to change that. Any good thief in EU?

I only use that build (or something similar) when I’m soloing things. It is pretty terrible anywhere else IMO.

For everything else I go 10-30-20-0-10 but could easily take out mug and have 20 in trickery.

Kaon.7192:

1. Isn’t scorpion wire under same (defiant) rules as every other pull? Such as guardian GS#5 (guardian, who’s bringing way less to table)? But yeah, you’ve 1200 range instead of mere 600. Then again, its rare to see failure here simply because mining suit was moved too slow..

Have you used basilisk venom lately? CC’s through defiant. And as for the mining suit thing. When they aren’t covered in lava and have 10 stacks of defiance up, I use bas venom and BOOM, he stopped healing.

very simple, use sbow. When they pop out you’ll be able to hit them and they shouldn’t be able to catch you (unless you let them). Swap back to your melee weapon after the fight goes on for a bit. You should be able to jump them and have the advantage.

congrats haviz! if you ever do it again I’d love to see that vid Always thought ele could do it easier than most with all their invulns, blocks, and high dmges. Also surprised you used dagger over sceptre main hand. why’d you choose that?

DeathPanel.8362:

I would definitely not like a level increase since that would mean having to farm a new set of gear for every one of my characters again.

unless if they upgraded the current top armor to stay top armor. Meaning lvl 80 exotic armor would become lvl X armor

TheGuy.3568:

Let me summarize. What ever you think your thief is doing well in PvE frankly unless its killing single regular mobs almost any class can do the other things better. This doesn’t speak so much to the overall value of the class,however these are the facts. Thief is lacking in PvE it has its ups but it has more downs. I love the class but that the truth.

If we get back to the original discussion where some one stated thief is OP in PvE. Where is the proof. No one chomps at the bit to carry a thief in an dungeon. I do think thieves are valuable but lets be realistic.

Party Support
-Guardian and Elementalist

Dps
-Warrior

AoE DPS
-Necromancer. Engineer

Group Utility Skills
-Mesmer

What is left over is thief and ranger with no real defined rolls they are especially good at. Lets not kid ourselves play any other class and you can see the wide gaps between PvE for thief and everyone else.

Thank you for actually posting an intelligent response (no offence to anyone else, I know there were others but this one just popped for me)!

In open world pve, thieves that use sbow will have amazing aoe, respectable dps (esp for ranged), and the unique ability of almost never getting hit. When there are ranged mobs around that cause me trouble, use daggers or block/reflect and take them out quickly so you can get back to kitting the melees without any troubles. If a thief is in trouble, even without stealth, they are the BEST at making distance and getting out.

Now I’m not going to say that you’re wrong about your categories that you listed the other 6 classes, but you’re missing a point that revolves around the entirety of gw2.
There are no hard defined roles.
Yes some classes are better than other in areas but that doesn’t make the other class useless in that area. It just means the player will either need to put more effort into doing that task or ignore that task and excel at one that is more suited to their strengths.

Party support: yes guardian and ele are great at this all by themselves, but with a thief, their effectiveness will be multiplied. I say this because thief has the best access to any finishers and standalone has some of the best fields in the game. Instead of supporting with aiges and regen, thief gives flat bursts of heals, various forms of armors, boons, condi removal, etc.

Dps: thief has the 2nd highest dps, 2nd only to warrior. It takes thought making this happen, opposed to just using hundred blades over and over, but is still very doable.

AoE dps: Thief has higher aoe dmg than necro by far and is significantly more sustained (going to mention epidemic later). And egi is one of the few classes that actually has to try harder than the thief to get their aoe damage out. I can’t comment any more on engi because that is the 1 class I haven’t made yet but when I do fight them in wvw (not talking about the low lvl ones), their damage is usually very laughable, avoidable, and negateable.

I did say necros had very low aoe dps, but that was only because we were talking about dungeons. Most mobs and bosses in dungeons cleanse conditions faster than open world mobs and bosses and faster than players. That dps also takes a very long time to build up, meaning that when the necros have finally built up enough stacks of something to get spread around and make a real impact, the pure dps people have already almost killed all of them.

Group utility: Time warp = mesmer wins… sad but true… Thieves still give great utility, just not THAT great.

What we are left with is someone who has many of the strengths of all the other classes (meaning they do have their share of weaknesses too, is true), who is able to fill the shoes of any class who isn’t currently in the party, while maintaining the rare ability of being self-sufficient.

Thieves aren’t specialists in dungeons, as many have said before, but the class can be very powerful anywhere.

Salt.4621:

I heard that Elvis is actually a Quaggan.

so dumb… elvis was an alien… geese, it’s like some people never even played perfect dark

Is there any truth to that? I really hope so! With 20 extra trait points, I could make the thief I always wished I could :P So many boons on steal without all the sacrifices

use scorpion wire or a cluster bomb to pull the single mobs. Careful though, since both deal damage, if there is another mob too close, it’ll agro that one when it sees its friend getting hit

Sarrow.2785:

6/10 from me. I used to love the duelist set but it’s just too familiar now. Plus Char thieves just don’t look right to me. Nothing personal.

2/10
sorry but I just really, really don’t like that look. The best feature it has the the shady look on the guy’s face. Makes him look like a criminal :P

TheGuy.3568:

I should clarify my point. Considering I literally tell a guy go PD and you cna solo most champs without issue. Lupi doesn’t count. No not that I doesn’t count if you can do it great what I mean is every class can do it. Its a timing fight no more no less.

There are some fight point blank this class cant handle solo. Simply put Ele, Guard, and most other classes can do it with little to not risk. Many people view thief as “I kill things fast hooray I am great at PvE”, but for me I always judge PvE against the kitten I can pull off on Ele vs any other class. As you can guess even my beloved thief comes up short. Thief PvE in dungeons is precarious at best. Judging by your comment you run one of my favorite builds S/D ( I could be wrong) which is one of the best for dungeons. In dungeons we aren’t the best heads up dps but we can daze lock, remove buffs consistently, rez, blind spam, get through pick up mission with stealth, and lots more. D/P I probably one of the best builds to remove a champs anti cc buffs and I don’t know of another class or build that can do it as quick.

Off topic: those aren’t champ karka its the vet. The one that spawns adds is trick. The only classes I can solo it on in a comparable way are ranger BM and Ele DD, Thief’s main issue with that fight is the onslaught of cc and how closing the gap often leads to a cc chain. 2 things I can tell you. The mobs are like mesmer shatter you can dodge as they come in. the other thing is that in most Karka fights ranging leads to a longer but much safer fight. It can be done.

I ma not saying thief sucks in PvE (check my post history if you like) Its just not as flexible overall solo as other classes.

I’ve read this multiple times and I still can’t figure out what you’re trying to say… I guess the 1 thing I should say is that p/d really isn’t as good as most people think it is but is a VERY strong weapon combo to use when learning thief.

It’s one of those things that makes it harder to fail but not necessarily easier to succeed… if that makes any sense to you.

Eduardo.4675:

I dont duel. Duels is for morons. And plz, challenging me for a duel?? and then saying that i have “kid-like face palm moments?” Duels is for baddies. You should learn to take criticism. It would make you better. Soloing Lupicus tells me jack sheet about your or anyone else’s skills. Anyway, im in the desolation borders almost all nights after midnight (UK time), you will find me easily soloing camps and ganking peeps or small groups. Just be a vizunah and ill be happy to fight you. But be warned: i know what is a smoke screen…unlike Lupicus.

lol just lol, you were the one who said how much you’d wreck me in a 1v1. That was another facepalm moment bud

Eduardo.4675:

I dont need to solo Lupicus to see that the video displayed a very bad player. I dont do videos, thats for kids, mostly. And im pretty sure im a lot better than dis guy. He wouldnt hold a candle to me in a 1vs1. And youre wrong, pve and pvp dont have to necessarily have different skillset required, thats a myth. Its just different gameplay.

now add me up next time and I’ll record and post it even if I lose

DanH.5879:

i think the thief class is being trolled again, even after we got stealth nerf/fix
inserting double face palm right now and crying like a little girl wondering where is the OP ness in my class for PvE.
my downed ability stealth for 2s is so bad now… and other classes have aoe knockdown/fear etc….a 2nd life for f sake…

agreed, the down state is pretty bad right now. The stealth is now really only useful for getting you 1, maybe 2 poisoned dagger throws off.

stof.9341:

abelooi.9156:

randomfightfan.4091:

they can bring more to the group then any other class.

I LOLed. By virtue of standing there doing nothing but spamming virtues and shouts on cd (or WoR and SoA) a guardian would easily dish out more support than a thief playing at 100%. Hell, playing hammer you can give everyone around you 100% protection uptime. Just by friggin auto-attacking.

So No.

And by playing mace you can heal everyone around you just by autoattacking. I wonder how many bosses in GW2 are beatable by a team of 5 guardians, one hammer the others mace + shield all autoattacking and just waiting for it to end

I would feel bad for any guardian forced into using mace… soooooooo boring. Sure it heals but that’s about all it does, and only on the 3rd attack and for very little.

Kurow.6973:

Since when is soloing Lupi, on any class, an impossible task?…especially after the dungeon update.

Are people being serious in this thread?

what exactly did dungeon update do for lupi? ive run him countless times in groups and it doesn’t feel any different aside from a few less invisible circles owning me (still there though). They didn’t lower his hp (pretty sure) and definitely didn’t lower his damage.

Dangerkips.6035:

That’s quite the provocative title you have there.

Call me crazy, but I’ve not had a mob reset on me even once before the patch.

Trying too hard to find the silver lining here tbh. The patch was without a doubt a rather heavy handed solution to a non-existant problem.

As you were.

idk if you’re happy or sad about the change… but for me I feel like it’s a good thing. No more running away and resetting for no reason when all I wanted to do was backstab or immobilize one of the wardens in ta

TheGuy.3568:

randomfightfan.4091:

TheGuy.3568:

I cant imagine anyone who plays thief in PvE considering it OP.

I died a LOT when I was learning thief at first. Now that I’ve learnt it, I rarely ever die (unless I’m just messing around/not paying attention). It almost feels like god mode. Who needs hp/armor if you rarely ever get hit and kill things before they know they’re getting attacked?

So the last time you soloed a champion was when?

not counting lupi :P
did the champ abom a lil while ago, soloed some group event ogre thing in fields of ruin when I was 100%ing, did some troll champion a while ago… can’t think of anything else but that’s mostly cause I do dungeons all day instead of events.

I tried my luck with champion karka but failed hard. I had/have no idea what it does. All I know is it jumps on you (which I dodge), spawns babbies (which I kill), but then die to w/e that goo kitten is. I dodge the single target thing but get immobilized in some goop thing. Even after I blink out and cleanse the imo I still take damage. No idea how that works but I think I could take it if I can figure it out.

Kaon.7192:

My anecdotal 2c on Thief’s awesomeness in speed clears:

When my guild runs the harpy fractal, I can stealth my party through the entirety of both platforming portions using a combination of Shadow Refuge and Smoke Screen blast spamming and coordinated short stops along the way.

Never aggro’ing a single harpy.

could do that… but the powerful bloods :s. Another nice little piece of advice is if you have a portal gun you can run up solo and portal them all up. Makes it easier and faster imo.

Vecuu.2018:

If you get knocked below 25% while Daggerstorming you’re in Melee against more than you can handle.

It’s ranged, aoe, cripples, and reflects projectiles. No need to get so close to what you want to kill.

you realize that there are attacks that hit you at ranged that aren’t physical projectile right??

since it sounds like you don’t atm I’ll list a few:
aoes, things like mesmer gs and scepter necro or ele, siege stuff, attacks that go through reflect but still get blocked by block (trust me, there are many), as you said – melee attacks (including things blinking to you), cone attacks (sort of aoes but I’m thinking more like ele dagger 5), conditions, pets, retaliation, anything else that does damage to you as you do damage to them, your own daggers reflected back at you, and super annoying 1 shot things like arah p2 abom rock… that can still hit you if you dodge it and blink away from it…