Guild Wars 2

rotten.9753:

You could always play as a tank.

You can do so with full zerk and Knight earrings. Up to 82% damage is reachable.

Xillllix.3485:

Because it didn’t work (it was cancelled by the autoattack) and it was a bad implementation of a good GW1 elite anyway so it was easier to make a new elite than to fix it…

I think they should scrap the new one too and make a signet that recharges your attunements when activated and increase boon duration when passive.

Thats a weird shout

Raif.9507:

roelvanesch.2817:

way.3561:

assuming a 10 man raid layout with 1 phalanx warrior and or 1-2 revenants, you won´t need to stack might in which case it would be better to go with a fresh air d/f build(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elV5EiNU4dM), along with assassins armor/weapons for 100% crit.

it would certainly boost your own dps, the rotation isn´t that hard and with the possibility to use gale/flash-freeze the break bar should go down fast as well. with wash the pain away/rebound and water overload for dicey situations you´ll even have a lot of utility you can bring to the party.

Nice vid, and gratz for beating him! Dagger mainhand would be better with an elemental bastion build indeed, but might I ask why you are using focus instead of warhorn? My choises for preferring warhorn would be:

Better healing in water
Better fire attunement
Lack of projectiles in the encounter

Both weapons have decent breakbar breaking, and I cant find a use for obsidian flesh that makes it great. Is gale that amazing?

Gale is that amazing (plus Comet) and you never know when you need obsidian flesh to pick up a fallen ally, avoid mechanics and such. I’m not positive that the weapons have the same breakbar potential as I think Gale far outstrips Air 4 on Warhorn, I’d have to test that to be sure (also can’t forget that comet does do breakbar damage too).

Added on to the fact that you can quickly pop Fire 5 for a small heal and Flame wall while swapping back to air is better than Wildfire.

Also the extra blast finished is nice (comet/magnetic wave vs sand squal). It becomes a matter of preference.

Thank you for clarifying your preference. I love it that my favorite trait (fresh air) made it into raids!

You can change the stats for armor/weapons to zerker. Trinkets might take some time.

Arenzo.3298:

roelvanesch.2817:

I am not saying I did the math, but the fact that EVERY meta power build for every class in the game (except mesmer for some reason) uses full zerk probably has a reason of some sort. You asked for advise, and got it. Take it or leave it. You could check metabattle.com for the most viable ele builds.

if memory serves precision affects reflect damage, even if u go over 100% crit chance, so thats why they take assassins, for maxing reflects

I run nearly full assassins and didn’t even know that, ty

From the cd reduction you mean? It had no place flavorwise (chronos do these things), was massively underpowered, REQUIRED team communication (ts) to be even somewhat useful and it reduced the cd of autoattacks.

way.3561:

assuming a 10 man raid layout with 1 phalanx warrior and or 1-2 revenants, you won´t need to stack might in which case it would be better to go with a fresh air d/f build(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elV5EiNU4dM), along with assassins armor/weapons for 100% crit.

it would certainly boost your own dps, the rotation isn´t that hard and with the possibility to use gale/flash-freeze the break bar should go down fast as well. with wash the pain away/rebound and water overload for dicey situations you´ll even have a lot of utility you can bring to the party.

Nice vid, and gratz for beating him! Dagger mainhand would be better with an elemental bastion build indeed, but might I ask why you are using focus instead of warhorn? My choises for preferring warhorn would be:

Better healing in water
Better fire attunement
Lack of projectiles in the encounter

Both weapons have decent breakbar breaking, and I cant find a use for obsidian flesh that makes it great. Is gale that amazing?

If you don’t have enough time to do ALL raids, just focus on one! One you particularry like, one you havent ever beaten yet, a different raid every week. I really don’t see the problem here.

Since the boss needs so much kiting, staff didn’t really work for me. I don’t know if anyone did have success with it. I decided to go for scepter instead. The might stacking is amazing, and with the range you can keep the damage up even while going for the green circles. I chose warhorn for offhand because i felt like the other choises where somewhat lackluster in this specific fight. The fire traitline with tempest warhorn GM and strength runes would easily give me party-wide 25 might permanently. Water brings a 10% damage modifier, which is not as good as the 20% air brings. I still went for water to share permanent vigor and regen with the team. The utilities are interchangeable. Arcane brilliance for damage and might stacking, wash the pain away for a groupwide heal. Lightning flash for securing the green circles, signet of fire for passive damage, feel the burn for extra regen and vigor, technobabble for breakbars, etc.

Will this build bring enough for the fight to be worth it? What could be changed?

Build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFQQJBLhdygI05A2fJY2AwhJWEAM3Wbst2S0F2CHhgAQB4AA-TxRBABXp8jm9HwTPwDnAAAeAAUq+jZKBJFgeCjA-e

Akachi.1352:

2 words….Rabid Engineer

Don’t have to use Scrapper spec, so it’s all core change skills and traits… Easy peasy, lemon squeezey

Sinister and viper are glass cannon specs. Each of the 3/4 stats they give increases condi dps. Since the timers in the raids are pretty tight, rabid DOES reduce your chance of beating the bosses.

OneKlicKill.4285:

This is how they should revive dungeons… Dark Souls mode… 5v2+dungeon bosses

Bah, not dark souls enough. Give the 2 skills like passive stealth when not attacking, 1 stack of pulsing stability, 100% damage bonus, etc.

Id try it! Im really curious but dont have the gear (I am making minstrel now!). You should strive for a 100% protection uptime for the team (2 minstril tempest will do the job). Invest in toughness and multiple healers (again, minstrel tempests + a druid or 2?). Vitality isnt needed, since the toughness and protection will prevent you from being 1-shot, and it will be healed up before you go to low anyway. Add in blinks and other movement skills, since you cannot make an error regarding the green circles/glowing pizza pieces. Stat combis would be Knight’s, Cavalier’s, Minstrel’s, Trailblazer’s and Celestial (or something like that).

Imho scrapper is pretty kitten in raids. It’s made for pvp really. Hammer isnt really worth it (with 10 ppl, the chance of getting a water field is kinda low), gyros are bad, the traits arent very useful either. The timeframe of the raid bosses is tight, and not wearing full ascended, but also traiting scrapper you might be missing too much efficiency. As raids are now, meta-ish builds kinda are a requirement. I also dont wear full ascended, but as a meta zerk ele I have no trouble finding groups. Engineer one of the most required builds in raids (viper/sinister).

I am not saying I did the math, but the fact that EVERY meta power build for every class in the game (except mesmer for some reason) uses full zerk probably has a reason of some sort. You asked for advise, and got it. Take it or leave it. You could check metabattle.com for the most viable ele builds.

Danikat.8537:

I’m guessing it’s because among certain groups of people in some English speaking areas (including at least parts of America I think) ‘beaver’ is a euphemism for a woman’s private parts.

Someone probably reported your guild name without ever thinking you may have been referring to actual beavers.

But that’s just my guess. If you want an actual answer and especially if you want the chance to keep that guild name you’ll need to open a support ticket to discuss it with Arenanet.

Sure did so! Thank you very much for the suggestion!

I’m not a native in the English language. Could someone clarify to me why the guild name “Beavers Are Absolutely Spiffin [BAAS]” (where baas means boss/awesomeness in Dutch) is inappropiate? The name “Koalas Are Absolutely Spiffin [KAAS]” (Means cheese, not so different from BAAS since KAAS=BAAS) is the name of my current guild. Unfortunately, the devs overlooked the absolute nessecity of adding Koalas as an option to the emblem design. Due to this grave mistake I cannot put a koala on my guild backpack. I need to stress the importance of both the letter combination (either KAAS or BAAS) and the possibility of presenting the respective cute animal on my backpack.

I sure hope anyone can help me out of this mess!

Druid probably is the better healer.
I do wonder, would elemental bastion aurashare have a use on a zerker dps ele, to add a bit of group support rather than being the ‘healer’, or would the loss in air traitline never be worth it? Anyone with experience in the matter?

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Alekt.5803:

Bvhjdbvkjf.1987:

Alekt.5803:

Change assassin.

To…?

And why? It would do less damage if I changed lol, objective is to deal more damage since I have no defense. Need to kill stuff faster not slower.

Your idea about being “very dependant” to crit is flawed from the start. You don’t even have fresh air to begin with. With berserker, you have more power, which means that your critical strikes will benefit from that extra power (Crit is a simple multiplier.)

I could bet that your build deals less damage than the majority of max glassy builds with that set-up.

Fresh Air allows me to swap to air attunement after a crit, correct? Trying to understand how exactly (on staff) that would be of any benefit…

Secondly, I tried zerker stats – and when fighting jormag’s claw the highest my base fireball damage ever did was 8k per attack. By simply swapping my gear set for assassins I always crit, dealing a minimum of 10.3k per base fireball to that same meta during the same phase.

If you’re not going to research things and have any viable input please feel free to leave. I’m looking to get feedback supporting my build not scrapping it and starting from scratch on a much weaker version.

The only advantage of assassins to zerker is a higher chance to crit. Thus, on your highest damage attack (which IS a crit) zerker WILL always do more damage. If you are getting higher damage on a single crit with assassins, rather than with zerker, some other factor is in play (food/traits?). Otherwise, these numbers don’t make sense.

Alekt.5803:

roelvanesch.2817:

Sounds pretty darn strong, like at least fire GM

I meant…Fire aura procs the burn and might also when blocking the attack (For Arcane Shield and Earth Shield) But most of the time, the elementalist will evade the attack, which does not proc burn and might.

Heheh didn’t quite get the message there, thank you for clarifying. From a ‘realistic’ pov, the way it works does make sense though. Also, for fire aura specifically it doesnt matter too much imo. aside from the boons/heal on applying the aura its pretty useless.

Valentinus.3412:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Alekt.5803:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Lucid Singularity is totally underpowered for a GM trait. And the warhorn trait gets doomed by 3 different design failures:

• Warhorn is our worst offhand
• The cooldown is 30 seconds (or 20 with the earth cooldown trait), not 10 like the trait states
• The automatic Sand Squall doesn’t even proc if you don’t have Warhorn equipped…

10 second cooldown and proccing while not having a Warhorn would actually make this trait compete with the Aura Healing trait I think.

And would be completely cancer and broken with the perma magnetic aura that would follow.

But that’s how the talent was designed, a magnetic aura on a 30 second cooldown is nowhere near GM worthy. Otherwise, why would there even be the tooltip that lists the cooldown as 10 seconds?

Also, 50% is nowhere near “perma magnetic aura”. Using hyberboles without facts make you look uninformed.

I’m all for improving the trait (and annoying rangers), but 50% uptime on magnetic aura does seem a bit much.

We can already have a 20 sec straight magnetic aura, or something like that. Aftershock/sand squall/rebound/overload earth. More than enough time to decap and cap a node.

Mireles Lore.5942:

I don’t think we need a new mode. But there needs to be consideration on that rage timer. Instead of implementing a hard fail. Maybe have a gold, silver, and bronze tier timer like on adventures and have scaling rewards. These things are still difficult without the DPS gear check and you can still preserve difficulty by rewarding raiders for optimal performance.

I mean really. I love the raids. But my guild can easily see that this content isn’t going to be well received by the majority of their current audience. I would think Anet wants people playing the content they worked so hard on. As it stands, most people will never see anything beyond vale guardian.

This basically is almost like multiple modes. Sounds neat though!

Zefrost.3425:

I too think a cavalier tank would work. Something like this

You have survivability for yourself, huge DPS, CC, a lot of vulnerability stacking and you have support in the way of signet of undeath and signet of vampirism which is also a DPS heal for allies. Signet of undeath can save a wipe. You will also be granting allies might, swiftness and fury. Not too many things grant fury.

Could possible switch out spectral armor with wurm or something to teleport back out of the “lava”.

It might be possible to have a tank that also heals and does DPS with another class but no tank is going to do everything really well. A cavalier necro should be able to tank and DPS really well.

Do you actually NEED that amount of thoughness? And for the fury, a single fire ele provides tons.

Ocosh.5843:

It could work, but might be overkill. I tanked the first boss and just threw on two Knight’s and two Cavalier’s trinkets with my zerk set, ran “Rise!” and Spectral Armor and had no trouble surviving. We swapped comps a lot as people came in and out, so I’m not sure if this was asking a lot of the Druid, but he didn’t remark on it being more difficult than helping to sustain any other comp.

One question: Why axe? Dagger is superior dps and ds gain. If you need to tag at range, you can use the 2 skill.

Again, I plucked the build out of metabattle without much of a thoucht. Only the crit chance modifiers are relevant

LOL I never use staff, just saw it… Its pathetic :’) I feel like fire staff ele is nerfed to the ground

D best.3547:

roelvanesch.2817:

Unit micro usually works this way. The tablet should work like that imo. Anet has no experience with unit micro, so the tablet is an unique thing in gw2 and needs some work.

actually rangers have pet micro, their f2 pet skills can be used while the ranger is CC or downed. They can even swap pets while downed, guild wars 2 does have subtle micro mechanics.

Hahahah thats not micro. Its a F skill with a different point of origin, whos origin is ai. Unit micro requies the units not to have ai.

OanSur.4590:

Current problem with toughness is, the more you have it the less effective it becomes.
Reaper has a really one of the best if not THE best defensive skill which is “Rise”. It cuts the damage we get by 50% both in and outside of shroud. If you want to tank you need good condi cleansing and toughness to get aggro from mobs. Death magic is best traitline to achieve that since it can give you 2500 armor in full exotic zerk. Ascended goes even further.

For cc-bar breaking flesh golem is much better than “Chill to the bone”. It takes 2-3 times more from bar.
You didnt take soul reaping line and yet you go with reaper onslaught. If you take this trait then you want to be in shroud for long time and use that dps increase. But if you want to go with tank then BB should be better.

For hybrid dps with tank flavor i would go with something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhdu1JzmQNNY3mg7mA7NYxawkCAhsSWcGMEWCpWBxgJFA-TRSGABA8EAO4EAswBBAk9HiT/AgqvIlSwhU+poKEBAOAII8AgWA-e

For the food you can run with Bowl of sweet and spicy butternut squash soup for dps or Ghost pepper popper/Fried golden dumpling for more might (more lf and health thanks to BB trait). Sigil of hydromancy on dagger allows you to enter shroud already with debuffed enemy (-10%dmg from chilled enemies) and get proper mightstack or fast lifeforce gain.
Tested on DS map, 5 enemies around you allow you to heal for 4500-5000hp within 3s upon entering shroud. Enter shroud- trigger ~3s of chill from sigil of hydromancy, go Soul spiral or whatever skill you want- you are not bound to just aa in order to get might.
3 stacks of might from sigil of str, 3 from food, 15 from trait, 3stability stacks from infusing terror thats 24boons in 3s. Every single one of them heals fo about 200 with world bonuses.

Of course you can go for more toughness but then you will lose even more dps. And dont think that you will be able to just land an easy Gravedigger on any of raid bossess.

As I said, only look at the gear, not the traits. The thoughness is for drawing aggro (at least in the Vale Guardian fight) rather than actual tankiness alone. In most if not all of the raid fights you will not have 5 enemies around you. Investing in even more thoughness will not be neccesary I hope, because my goal was to reach an exact 30% crit chance. The gear is all about stat-efficiency really. The Vale Guardian at least doesnt do much damage, so drawing aggro on a class that is naturally tanky seems more important to me than actually investing in tank-ish skills/traits.

Sounds pretty darn strong, like at least fire GM

Also, I think the class/role does matter. Look at chronomancer for instance. The amount of alacrity a chrono dishes out will be the same regardless of his gear. It matters most for classes that mainly offer high dps (like coni Engi).

Keyang.3729:

can a thief tank?

DD tank would be better against bosses with higher damage and lower attack speed imo, you cant keep up the dodges forever.

Warlord.9074:

Here it is in Laymen terms for people who still don’t get it. Raids=Difficult. It is what it is. You people want to essentially make the raid no longer a raid. It is like you want to take a square and make it round. It just isn’t round its a square. That is its purpose in life. The raids were not made for you get over it.

Now look at your post from a commercial point of view. I don’t necessarily agree raids should be ultra hard, and by no means do I agree with them having to be easy. But if the raids are only for a few elite players, the development priority of raids will plummet.

1. Elementalist (+ tempest)
2. Engineer (+ scrapper)
3. Reaper
4. Chronomancer
6. Revenant
5. Daredevil

7.8.9. Warrior/Ranger/Guard

Tried out some raiding, zerker meta still seems to be a thing. The only roles that really benefit from anything other than zerk/assassins/sinister/viper are the healer and the tank. Now the reaper has this trait that gives him 50% flat crit increase when the target has 25 vulnerability on him (all the time). With permanent fury from one of the other 9 players, anything higher than a 30% crit chance becomes irrelevant. Therefore, full zerk kinda feels like a waste to me.

Now compare these two builds (the setup I copied from metabattle, only the stats matter)

1. Full zerk:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBhOD7kZTolGsmGwxGgeTsgLYTZhmQVI+K+FLjQDgAQLA-TxRBABXp8jm9HwT3wDXEAAeCAUq+jZKBDAcA8b8tvBnf+5nf+597v/+7v/GA-e

2. Cavalier/Zerk:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBhOD7kZTolGsmGwxGgeTsgLYTZhmQVI+K+FLjQDgAQLA-TRCBABKqbom9HqUlgzUCilysPV3BgLCgXKNC4JAEA4A434bfDO/8zP/8z73f/93f/NA-e

As long as the conditions are right (25 vuln, fury), the only difference between the 2 builds is the power and the toughness (and air signet). We will be trading in 236 power for 800 toughness. This would enable the reaper to draw aggro and tank, whitout loosing too much damage.

Will this setup be legit?

For those who think the “easy” mode will be more farmable, even when the rewards are less, that really depends on how Anet would lower the difficulty. For example, the enrage timer would take a few minutes longer. This would open up build diversity and more casual play, but by no means will it be more farmable. It will take even more time to clear the dungeon.

4 seconds resistance on overloads? Would be kinda troll if you were to reach 100% boon duration.

As long as you keep moving, and don’t overload on los health, zerker is fine really. Remember to use projectile reflection against snipers/frogs and thinks will be ok.

If I wouldn’t be able to succesfully finish a raid, like ever. I would personally really appriciate a doable (mind you, not ez) version of the raid. Even at half the loot it would be perfectly fine by me.

Isnt it weird that most exotic insingas are very affordable, while some (mainly zealots) are rediculously expensive? Watchwork mechanisms cost around 30 g! I feel more punished then ever wanting to play a healer in this zerker-meta game.

Sentinel.5731:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Raids should only have one mode, the hardest possible mode available. If you want easier content, dungeons and fractals are still available to play. Raids are not designed to be inclusive, they are designed to push players to get better. You say you’re a casual and a good player, so if you get with a good group you should be able to beat it. You may fail many times, but when you beat it that will be an incredibly satisfying moment—Those moments are what raids are all about; the catharsis from defeating a seemingly insurmountable foe is incredible. You, too, can enjoy these bosses if you’re willing to put forth the effort and join a group to overcome it.

This. 100% This. I got my first kill after 7 hours yesterday, with a group I met the day before, on a build I had never played before this week. It was a TON of work, and it required I sync up with 9 other people on TS and take hours to grind it out.

And that single kill moment was the best moment in all of GW2 thus far for me, even better than my legendary Twilight.

Now I don’t know how difficult the raid actually is, I only tried a couple of times. But the difficult gap between fractals and raids is enourmous. If raids are only going to be completable by a very selecs few, then investing in expanding raids will not be very beneficial. I don’t think they should lower the difficult for this reason, this would rightfully upset the hardcore(-ish) raiding community. If the raiding community were to grow too small because of the difficulty, a second difficulty level would be a nice middle ground between fractals and raids (as they are now).

Personally I am using a cleric/zerk mix, but that’s just because I like playing healer, and couldn’t afford zealot

I want to raid, but people say they cant invite me Please help

Qixz.5640:

syrval.1690:

You are correct according to the wiki page on effect stacking and I did completely forgot to note this. I didn’t seem to hit the stack cap that noticeably when I tried the Illusionary Inspiration spread in the mists (trying to verify the sanity of the numbers). However that was probably because by the time I triggered the signet trait, most or all of Timewarp’s short duration quickness stacks were gone (10s after the drop of Timewarp).

I’ll have to add that to the note to the bottom that the cap is 9, since its a bit beyond my excel skills to add a check for how many times we’ve stacked quickness. (unless someone has a suggestion how to do this, and I’m just being dumb) People will just have to keep it in mind when actually utilizing this stuff. It should also be kept in mind the rotations I made were largely for example purposes as well as my own curiosity. My personal copy of this spreadsheet is even more of a mess Xp

There are definitely rotations out there that waste quickness (double time warp at 100% boon duration = R.I.P. stack) what makes matters worse is that we (or at least i) don’t really know how this stack works in detail on quickness. Is it an actual stack or a queue? what happens if we share out our quickness? do we share the stack? or do we share a single item with the duration of our stack? etc. I’m personally not a big fan of this stack since it’s this obscure game mechanic that makes ur life difficult and causes some really weird game decisions (like why the kitten wouldn’t you wanna timewarp twice? or even once for that matter)

I never time warp twice, and only really use it with continium split to effectively halve the cooldown.

uhohhotdog.3598:

A good reaper can melt a tempest with chill and other conditions after breaking diamond skin. Any other heavy conditions can kill tempest once diamond skin is broken and it’s really not that hard to break it.

Stuns are real bad for tempest unless you take the stability on overload.

Don’t forget poison! Its horrible to have that on you…

How exactly is that not a warhorn spec?

Shadelang.3012:

As far as the ventari utility skills. Im of the mind that all 5 of ventari’s skills should be usable while stunned.

I.E. Ventari doesn’t get stunbreaks But instead can continue to function even while stunned. By moving and utilizing the tome to respond threats.

Your being stunlocked? Move the tablet to you and detonate it to buy you time to get away. Or use it to burst heal you or cleanse condis off you. Or even to stop the arrows of that ranger pew pewing you while your stunned. Thats the kind of gameplay I REALLY want to see from revenant.

It will take more skill than your typical stunbreak. But it leaves the option there and gives you further methods of mitigating effects without simply copying every other pattern out there.

Unit micro usually works this way. The tablet should work like that imo. Anet has no experience with unit micro, so the tablet is an unique thing in gw2 and needs some work.

Raithwall.8201:

Mallis.4295:

Thieves bring two things to raids.

1) Smoke Fields/Stealth

2)Active mitigation

Now really depending on how “tanking” ends up being in GW2 Daredevil has the potential to be the best tank class in the game through sheer amount of evades and blocks. From what we saw of Vale Guardian during beta that specific fight doesn’t necessitate tanks having high survivability but we might see later bosses that do heavy damage to tanks and have multiple tank killer abilities requiring something like Daredevil/Guard/Rev/Scrapper as a tank.

thiefs dont make good tanks at least for the boss we were shown. evade tanking means you are forced to move around which lowers overall dps (not standing in dmg/combo fields/melees not hitting all their skills)
this against an enrage timer —> no evasion tanking

How about dodging directly through the boss? If he only turns around he’ll stay in the fields.

yLoon.5289:

Another boring post whining about DH.

You want to know what is instant death in group fight?

Ele meteor shower 2 hits 4k = 8k + aether blast, and thats only consume one of the utility slot skill. Yes, that is a 2 second dying.

Now please go complain in Elementalist forum instead.

What’s aether blast? Btw, meteor shower doesnt hard-cc the whole point.

Laraley.7695:

Outsider.6051:

What builds run condi that aren’t able to dish out 1.7k damage? (10% of spvp ele health with cele and no vit on runes i believe).

Been asking around on fights i’ve been in where they constantly complain about it. And they said they aren’t running dire, so what is it? Only condi build i played is trapper ranger and that never had any problem getting 10% off an ele.

Hm, I wonder if it has anything to do with the ele having 40% (33% at worst) dmg reduction 100% uptime.

Good thing Necro (who is one of the major reasons for training ds) has boon stripping then.

If running staff, there isnt really a point in getting stats other than zerker (mb marauder). Thats just the way the weapon works in pve. Non-glass cannon builds simply incentivice other weapons.

Kinda feels like a one trick pony build (dagger off, scolar runes). I prefer s/f fresh air for more sustain.

Mallis.4295:

rotten.9753:

Both druid and engineer have a smoke field.

Mesmers can give aegis why bring a Guardian?

For stealth, you only really need a single smokefield. Engineer and druid get it without any investment (smokescale is a good pet imo, Engi already runs bomb kit for the other bombs.) Mesmer’s acces to aegis is restricted and not ‘automatically’ build in.