You’re making it a battle within the community Flute. You are blaming gvg players for poor ppt.
Yep, lets blame the one guy who doesn’t lack common sense.
Not sure if serious.
Totally.
So in your opinion, the guy who thinks T1 is built on planning and skill compared to the other tiers, not coverage and population, is the only one with common sense? That’s strange.
If you were apart of one of the skilled communities you would understand more about the prep and effort it takes along with the fact that those strats and skill you guys talk about in “GvG” is the same stuff good wvwers have been doing since the start. What your doing is just a simple version of wvw you guys have managed to gain a small following playing 52 card pickup at the sidelines of a poker game. koodos
That’s a very nice way of saying nothing while sounding haughty. Pretty much every single GvG guild has done “real WvW” for many months now, and many of us are recognized for open field skill against large groups. I’ve played WvW almost every day of this game’s existence minus the short time it took me to reach Straits of Devastation and get bored of PvE, and most of it wasn’t spent in GvG. People like you who look down on non-T1 servers because you think it’s purely “skill” are completely mistaken. It’s like that one JQ guy who said “oh yeah Maguuma could beat JQ’s SEA zerg if only they had any skill”…what a joke. If you want to be taken seriously then please enlighten us on all this hard work you put into being T1 that isn’t recruiting more guilds to come to T1.
^ really dude you guys are 15th in wvw I would think being able to take out more than 2x your number your server would be higher ranked. If you can take out 2x you number why did you loose those 3 "GvG"s and there is a big diff between the players on the top and the players on the bottom if some real wvw guilds come to your server maybe you will get lucky enough to find that out for yourself.
It’s almost as if WvW is determined by coverage, not just “number of people you can have online at prime time”! Also because the people who do GvG are dedicated to fighting well, unlike many of the people who aren’t. I find it incredible that anyone would say that T1 is T1 because of skill in this day.
Looks like the GvG site just needs a revamp, split it up into 10v10, 15v15 and 20v20. Maybe this way guilds like AoN will actually get GvG’s accepted if they were ranked 1 in 10v10 by other guilds who wanted the top spot.
It’s been mentioned in the WvW discussion threads, maybe voice your support of it there.
I guess this is what happens when we lack good inter-server bickering. Agg getting all the PvF aimed at them this week.
You must have missed the part where they asked for it.
edit: BTW PvF score eithinan 8 AGG 0
I expect them to come out and say “We won’t PvF eithinan again because our members get bored on the sidelines watching Eithinan pwn us. In future we’ll only PvF on TS3 as we enjoy that more”
Come PvF on our Mumble, I wanna hear your pretty voice :O Or maybe it’s PvV??
yes and no, the number of guilds that can field a cohesive 20player team on a given night is a very small number, and they’re mostly on the same servers.
how many tiers do you guys think can actually participate in this? because i’d be very surprised if you can have this happen on the bottom half servers with any kind of frequency.
Well, it must have broader appeal because it didn’t fizzle out in a few weeks like PAXAs 5 man thing. GvG has already been around for longer and not all of it is 20 man.
The majority of committed WvW players don’t give a crap about PPT anymore. The PPT game, as it stands, is completely boring. People want fights.
WvW is just a training ground for the next GvG for most guilds.
Naw, the overwhelming majority of WvW players couldn’t care less about GvG. I doubt most players outside the top3 tiers even know it exists.
I’m not hating on the format, but it’s getting a little out of hand with all the threads claiming it’s the “real WvW”tm.. you’re a vocal minority, quit acting like you speak for everyone. This is the exact same nonsense that paxa tried to do with the “small man tier” a few months ago, and that flamed out spectacularly.
I kind of agree here, except with the analogy to PAXA. I don’t think we’re a majority by any means, certainly not in NA, but we are starting to get more interest. PAXA’s thing was a very specialized thing and this has broader appeal due to larger fights.
I would hope there’s some kind of review process for this though. If there isn’t, gw2gvg should make one. One guild shows a video proving the record, and an admin can override the “deny.” Could also be recorded as a black mark against the denying guild…
Heck, I’d be willing to volunteer as a reviewer, if they’re short on people. :-P
The whole reason this is not on the website is because “they’re” is just me and all my time is already going into answering everyone’s questions and creating new features for the website, heck I haven’t been able to raid for 2/3 weeks. Having to watch GvG videos of every match won’t fit my schedule :P.
If there are enough people willing to volunteer I might consider adding this, but I’m affraid this could also create loopholes.
You could consider also open sourcing the site code so other people can contribute. I have downtime since our guild is presently inactive, but I’m not sure I want to spend it writing PHP :-) Either way, stuff like that can be added later. I’ve been juggling ideas of how a site would look if I made it and I sent some your way a little while ago.
You definitely deserve credit for the fantastic work and effort you’ve put into making that site, you really do.
However I don’t think picking matches for guilds is a very good idea, I would rather keep it as it is today, with the guilds sorting that stuff out on their own.
I don’t know, how many times people have denied us? We freaking transfered to another server and still people don’t want to GvG us. And these guilds do GvG against others. We can go every day of the week and still they deny. I think these guilds should get named and shamed somehow on the site.
Considering the implicit rule of respect that I’ve seen in all GvG matches, I don’t really think that’s the right attitude to take. My guild has been unable to take GvGs for almost two weeks now and it’s rather disgusting the rumors I’ve heard from other people. Guilds do not need to be named and shamed if they don’t want to fight. And besides, the idea was to reward people for accepting, not punishing people for declining (somehow, but not sure how that would happen). Yeah, it sucks for you guys who get a lot of declined GvGs, but there must be other factors at play, at least in NA…TW has mentioned it constantly being an issue, yet why is it not an issue for Agg? They floated between 2 and 1 and everyone still loves to fight them, and they love to fight.
If you deny all matches, I can live with that. Like when you take a break. But when you do GvGs against some and ignore others even tho you can do one. I think that ain’t sportmanship and they should be named and shamed. Every week we ask EVERY guild we can possibly GvG and we had GvG in the past 3 weeks…
Got to agree with that tellerion, but I do think there should be a challange button on the website and guilds regulary declining GvGs should get a punishment against their rating.
Can’t quite parse your first paragraph, but I’m assuming you meant you haven’t gotten a GvG in 3 weeks. I think Tellerion is on point here, especially the part about stagnation. If they refuse to fight better guilds, they will likely never learn, but that’s not your problem. On that subject, one way Agg got fights which I think was a good thing, was to just do scrimmage matches against people. We knew they were better, PYRO knew they were better, and scrimmages take pressure off of the rankings. On top of that, they offered in advance to try and point out weaknesses that they noticed during the fights (something I think is a great addition to the GvG showdown), so there was plenty of good will between everyone that participated with them. I know some people look down on practice matches, but seeing as how GvG is all about fights, it’s my opinion that it shouldn’t matter if a fight is “ranked” or not.
You definitely deserve credit for the fantastic work and effort you’ve put into making that site, you really do.
However I don’t think picking matches for guilds is a very good idea, I would rather keep it as it is today, with the guilds sorting that stuff out on their own.
I don’t know, how many times people have denied us? We freaking transfered to another server and still people don’t want to GvG us. And these guilds do GvG against others. We can go every day of the week and still they deny. I think these guilds should get named and shamed somehow on the site.
Considering the implicit rule of respect that I’ve seen in all GvG matches, I don’t really think that’s the right attitude to take. My guild has been unable to take GvGs for almost two weeks now and it’s rather disgusting the rumors I’ve heard from other people. Guilds do not need to be named and shamed if they don’t want to fight. And besides, the idea was to reward people for accepting, not punishing people for declining (somehow, but not sure how that would happen). Yeah, it sucks for you guys who get a lot of declined GvGs, but there must be other factors at play, at least in NA…TW has mentioned it constantly being an issue, yet why is it not an issue for Agg? They floated between 2 and 1 and everyone still loves to fight them, and they love to fight.
Listen you guys saying very few people care about ppt "GvG"ers make up 1.4k-5k of 3 million players 0.166666667% if we use the high end.
I am going to take my leave from the thread for the night and hopefully a proper discussion about the info can ensue. Those "GvG"ers are out for my blood as always.
Well please respond to the bit about Blackgate ticking very highly for over 12 hours when you get back. I’d really like to hear about how GvG did that one since it happened between 12am and 12pm server time, which I highly doubt is when any GvGs took place. Otherwise maybe admit that your information is not as solid as you think it is? Thanks.
/rolls eyes Science – the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding. I am just putting the info out there you can perceive it how ever you like.
I perceive it exactly the same way the poster above your reply did, which is the same way mos recorded it. Blackgate took the PPT lead for over half the day. That time period is not when any GvGs occur. You call your position “obvious” and the other position “foolish” which is just silly. I’m sorry if you think your scores boil down to such a simple system.
Please ignore offensive trolls? Though despite his attitude, I agree with him. Rules for spectators don’t really work unless the spectators are all GvGers. Maguuma enjoys having Agg, so I guess we’re both happy.
If you go below 10 then you would need a second ladder, something that has been suggested for the GvG website previously. The skillsets required are definitely not the same.
Yes, and I’d argue that it’s the same between even 10 and 20 (or 25, whatever).
While I appreciate your effort Elder, the problem I have with all this is that it seems convoluted on purpose, kind of like law or finances are… in the spirit of making it sound complex and imposing. Double edge sword, and really, all those paragraphs could be summarized in 3 or four lines. Wouldnt look as flashy tho, but to the rookies it is more appealing and reasonable.
If you really want to do this you gotta come up with a clean, easy and very short exposition. Keep it simple ppl.
My 2c, as always, no more no less. o/
I agree, it does seem very “Terms of Service”y/legalese, haha. But that’s not a problem with the rules themselves, that’s just presentation and can be fixed easily.
This is a good call. I think 10s, 15s, 20s, 25s, and 30s should all be allowed. Heck, I wouldn’t even be opposed to allowing 5v5. 5v5 would probably need a different ladder though, and could theoretically be handled in sPvP.
5v5 is imho sPvP. Personally I’m not into 10v10 2 but I discussed these set of rules with some people already and we decided that taking out 10v10 would realy hurt the GvG scene because it excludes smaller less hardcore guilds.
On the other hand 30s are more about blobbing, not everyone has a computer that can play that kind of blobbing without lagfast and even less guilds will play that because of the numbers (I don’t know a lot of guilds who can pull that one off). 25s, we discussed it and think it’s better for the scene to keep it with those 3 formats “10/15/20”. Same reasons as 30s, little bit less though, but we are still a growing scene, so who knows what the future will bring. Besides, check the first rule, you can always adapt in mutual agreement
As long as the website is not limiting in recording numbers then I don’t care. If it’s recorded and doesn’t count towards whatever size ranking then it’s fine. But what we’re trying to point out is exactly that: it’s your opinion and we disagree, so it seems weird to make it a rule. But speaking of ranking, if we are actually maintaining ranking on the website, is it going to be a unified ranking for all sizes?
It is, sorry slipped out between typing in word and posting on the forum
Why is there a limit at all? Also, did you miss something here: “c. If any player of either participating guilds, who is not included in agreed number of players, interferes with the GvG, that games”
Slightly off topic, but has anyone actually written a web score tracker that scales down to mobile nicely? I know MOS doesn’t. That would be nice to have.
People need to be careful about adding too many rules to this stuff. The GvG scene is still very young, and newer guilds are less likely to get involved with older guilds if there’s too much silly entry barriers.
I understand that people want to be competitive about it, but adding too many niche rules will potentially scare people off.
Yeah, I was saying that in the previous thread. Though I still think all GvGs should begin with a ceremonial yakrifice. You know, for PPT.
I am missing something. Why are practice matches a joke? Honestly GvG for me is all about practice and good fights. Ranking is pretty irrelevant on the website anyway because it is very frequently quite inaccurate. And it is hard for servers to prove themselves across tiers. Number three NA guild is from Eredon Terrace over Night Shift? Okay. Yes, it is nice to have some general idea of where guilds stand, but if people are taking it so seriously then maybe the lesser evil is to get rid of rankings and only track history. I am sure we will not reach consensus on that, though. This is a social problem and it will not be fixed by rules and regulations, in my opinion.
In Europe most practice matches are played out with the same numbers as a competitive match which means one of or both of the teams are trying to avoid potentially losing points. Both sides play their best and play to win, yet because they are unsure if they will win, the match is arranged as a “scrimm”.
We aren’t talking understrength guilds playing 14 vs 14 for a laugh or 16 vs 20 for the challenge, it’s full on 20vs20 without the penalties of a loss on Gw2GvG.
Is it not better to have a practice match than no match at all? Maybe part of this is also inspired by pretty high volatility in the rankings and relatively few matches to make up for it.
The biggest thing that bothers me is guilds that are registered to gw2gvg.com, but only accept challenges from guilds they’re sure to beat. That’s just illogical, the challenge is the whole point of a GvG, I could not care less about the rating itself honestly. There is no fun in running over guilds that pose no resistance, I’d rather lose to a good guild.
Also, the rating system makes it so that if you lose to a guild with a much higher rating, you don’t lose that many points. This should be regulated by penalizing guilds that don’t accept challenges (for example, first challenge refused=nothing happens, starting from the next refusal to that same guild within a certain timeframe, the rating of the refusing guild starts to drop, and it does so exponentially for each refusal).
Just my 2 cents.
Prime Radese
This is a legitimate concern. Each Friday as the Match reset happens, we contact all guilds listed as available to organise the weeks GvG’s. The first response is generally “What guild are you from?”. Upon answering it’s a case of “No” for reasons such as “we don’t have enough players” or “key players are on holiday”.
It’s a kick in the teeth to see these guilds running with 30 odd in WvW and GvGing other guilds in the same week they’ve refused you. Starter guilds seem more eager to learn than mid/high table guys are willing to risk their precious points. (IMO these practice/non-official matches that go on are a joke)
Are we approaching a situation where the higher up you go on Gw2GvG the less likely you are to get matches?
I am missing something. Why are practice matches a joke? Honestly GvG for me is all about practice and good fights. Ranking is pretty irrelevant on the website anyway because it is very frequently quite inaccurate. And it is hard for servers to prove themselves across tiers. Number three NA guild is from Eredon Terrace over Night Shift? Okay. Yes, it is nice to have some general idea of where guilds stand, but if people are taking it so seriously then maybe the lesser evil is to get rid of rankings and only track history. I am sure we will not reach consensus on that, though. This is a social problem and it will not be fixed by rules and regulations, in my opinion.
The amount of drama DB-related drama on the recent threads has been staggering. We used to be quiet, sporty and unambitious. Wagonbrand has become Dramaband these days
Think its funny how guys are talkin mad game when they have 14 other team mates to help them and rely on…or 19 others. lol, don’t ever call yourselves hardcore. There are soloers that are better than most of those 15 or 20.
Not to mention real 5 man teams.
Getting bored in game again so back to the forums, eh? Let me know when your 5 man can take on a map blob…until then I’m not sure why people in mid-upper tiers should care.
I have two accounts, one on NA and one on EU …. I’ve checked ping/fps/latency on both at various times and they’re pretty similar. Maybe it’s just really good Internet in the Great White North :p
Good internet in Canada? Hmmmm nope, doesn’t sound believable, from things I hear. :P
Jayne lives in a cruise ship floating between here and Germany!! But yes from all accounts I’ve heard it’s very much YMMV. Or perhaps it’s just perceived latency vs actual latency.
Yep and WvW in Tier 1 and Tier 2 NA is more like a job and less like a game for fun.
I have a suggestion: Since EU seems more accomodating to GvG, why don’t all the guilds interested in GvG head over there, and leave the WvW ppt meta folks NA? Then those protesting a couple hours during a week of GvG time can see the real impact of these guilds they are so maligning.
Just a thought.
Unfortunately there are probably a lot of people who also still have server loyalty in WvW for some reason (like this idiot right here, mag4lyfe). Also if the other guy’s theory is correct, then NA guilds shifting to EU WvW will just add better coverage and then it might be like T1 NA, which is good or bad (bad) depending on your opinion. Clearly we just all need second accounts only for GvG!
But it IS kill trading.
And like I said months ago in GW1 this would fall under the category of match manipulation leading to a temp. or even permanent ban.
How is it kill trading? There is no agreement on who gets to kill eachother. They just agree to fight somewhere and the rewards are abysmal so that certainly isn’t a reason for it.
It is just as much kill trading as 2 groups that see eachother across the field and decide to engage eachother without having talked to eachother earlier.
Don’t you get it? When A.Net bans all fight clubbers and GvGers, WvW will truly be great.
Now the problem arise when a group decide, for example, that they only want to do zerg bursting all night long. This means the death of all the roaming groups and the creation of huge brainless blob to counter the zerg bursting groups.
So, someone decides to zerg bust the zergs that are non-existent until they start zerg busting? I think you have your ordering wrong. Zerg busting, at least on Maguuma, wasn’t even a thing until the map blob started trickling down to lower tiers.
Let me know when your 5 man can take on a map blob…until then I’m not sure why people in mid-upper tiers should care.