Guild Wars 2

nearlight.3064:

How exactly does the restorative mantras change work? The numbers I saw briefly in the trait panel look as bad as I remember from prepatch with a healing power amulet, but is this accurate or is it a tooltip error?

Could we slap on a mender’ amulet and run an offensive mantra build that focuses on moderate burst damage and some AoE healing/support? Or is that not worth it in your guy’s opinion? For pvp obviously.

With mender’s you’ll heal for about 3,400 vs the base 2,600. Sounds good on paper but when you think about the fact you have over 1k healing power, it’s not that great. Not near enough of a difference IMO to make it worth trying to build healing around. I even tried putting something together with MoP but you just give up too much on your utility bar for it.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see people trying to make a bunker spec work but I honestly don’t think it’ll fly with no toughness.

Alacrity from 66% to 33%. Last I heard the balance objective was to shave, not hammer. What gives? Couldn’t you see that nerfing alacrity would help solve the mesmer bunker issues but in turn decimate any other potential build using chronomancer?

The alacrity nerf is so bad, this afternoon I started to take a second/third/tenth look at some of the other chronomancer traits and quickly determined that core mesmer may now be in the ballpark of coming close to chronomancer. Maybe this was the intent, to buff the core by severely nerfing the elite. Whatever the reason, in PvP well of recall is 100% necessary to maintain any stretch of remote viability of ANY chrono build, and that’s sad.

Fay.2357:

skcamow.3527:

Fay.2357:

skcamow.3527:

Fay.2357:

Sharkey.9805:

cyyrix.6105:

skcamow.3527:

Levetty.1279:

Will there be more on patch day or is this the complete list?

Today was a small preview for all classes.

Spoiler alert. Today’s preview contained 90% of the meaningful balance changes, just like every time they’ve said that in the past.

Think about it…if there were that many more changes coming, they wouldn’t have spent time revealing a 5% increase in scepter attack speed.

Oh, no cyyrix, you don’t understand! What they didn’t cover on the livestream today was a significant change to the mesmer’s scepter mechanics!

You see, they’re also going to be buffing the scepter’s auto-attack damage!

By 5%!

Logic checks out, definitely an anet-worthy change.

Looking forward to the eventual changes revealed which will ultimately determine the state of mesmer for the next few months. Apparently I’m the only optimist here, pessimists feel free to continue your diatribe.

One could make a watertight case that your optimism is more accurately termed irrationality, and that the pessimism is more accurately termed realistic estimations based on evidence and experience.

Sure

I’d like to take a moment to say I told you so.

Hehe I know you’ve been so itching to say that for over a week now.

RM, Mistrust, Scepter AA nice …

Mesmer

• Feedback: This skill is now ground targeted and no longer requires a target.
• Mental Defense: The cooldown on this trait is no longer affected by Signet of the Ether.
• Ether Clone: This skill no longer generates a clone if the player has the max number of illusions. It instead applies 2 stacks of torment for 5 seconds.
• Chaos Armor: This skill no longer blinds enemies. It will instead apply weakness to them for 3 seconds. The applied duration for swiftness and confusion has been increased from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.
• Chaotic Dampening: The duration of protection has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.
• Duelist’s Discipline: The chance to bleed has been increased from 33% to 50%. Bleed duration has been increased from 5 seconds to 6 seconds.
• Restorative Mantras: The healing attribute scaling of this trait has been increased by 400%. The healing from this trait will now be listed in the combat log.
• Furious Interruption: The cooldown of this trait has been reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds.
• Evasive Mirror: The duration of this trait has been increased from 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds.
• Mistrust: The number of confusion stacks this trait applies has been increased from 2 to 4.
• Malicious Sorcery: The attack speed increase from this trait has been increased from 15% to 20%.
• Bountiful Disillusionment: The duration of resistance applied in a radius has been reduced from 5 seconds to 2.5 seconds.
• Temporal Enchanter: The duration of resistance granted by this trait has been reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.

MailMail.6534:

I have no words for this change. lol

Well of Precognition is officially only better than Veil in spvp now. gj Anet.

Hey, at least it’s still a stun break

With the viper build I run I have a solid chance at killing any profession/build being actively used. Even though the conditions are not too widespread (confusion/torment/bleed), the power damage from viper is too much for most to overcome. The only class I’ve run into trouble with are good power or condi revenants (usually win 1/2 of those), which should hopefully be easier to deal with after next week.

I use staff-sc/sh, chaos/illusions/chrono (my team setup – bountiful disillusionment) which provides good team utility and subsequently helps me deal with the more tanky sustainable classes because I take null field. It really helps strip the prot/regen so they’re easier to burst down. Sans inspiration, with well of eternity those two condition removal sources are fine 90% of the time. Reapers you need to kite and take your time, but that kinda goes without saying.

I used to run sw/sh-sc/t with insp/illusions/chrono and viper. I thought that was the best, but I’ve found this version is much better, at least for me.

It’ll be interesting to see how things change after the balance update. Obviously with what we know now it’ll be much harder with condi shatter, but we also have to see what buffs we get.

This was the build shown on stream:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAsYWnUqAVsglsAWsCctglOB7pFEqWYwr0Y6O1JwFAKcl480A-TZBFABxs/g4lBY4BAswZAAgDBAA

Weird to see the regen and heal trait for pet, not sure if troll since no invigorating bond. Shout regen trait kinda makes sense to generate AF along with SoW but odd on maruader.

Good build, I put this exact one together (with a couple varying utilities) for the warrior on my team a couple months ago, but with discipline since berserker stinks IMO. His build runs axe/shield; berserker is great for gunflame I’ll give you that.

I think you’re too loaded with signets. You can get respectable precision with only a couple because of the 60s precision buff, taking into account the passive signet of might on the signet trait. This requires popping at least HS before you enter the match.

IMO doylak is much better than signet of fury. It gives passive toughness plus the endless stability perfect for safe stomps, plus another stun break. I get why you take signet of might for the unblockable, just have to be careful not to overwrite your passive.

As for new rune, leadership should work very nicely which covers the boon duration aspect of durability. The resistance on HS becomes about 8 seconds, not to mention the very important fury duration from berserk mode.

I personally would take defy pain without question and dogged march, though cull the weak is very good.

We’ll have to see after the full notes are released. Too early to say we’ll be RIP, irrelevant, whatever. Very possible we don’t get anything of real substance, but should wait for the verdict until then.

Fay.2357:

skcamow.3527:

Fay.2357:

Sharkey.9805:

cyyrix.6105:

skcamow.3527:

Levetty.1279:

Will there be more on patch day or is this the complete list?

Today was a small preview for all classes.

Spoiler alert. Today’s preview contained 90% of the meaningful balance changes, just like every time they’ve said that in the past.

Think about it…if there were that many more changes coming, they wouldn’t have spent time revealing a 5% increase in scepter attack speed.

Oh, no cyyrix, you don’t understand! What they didn’t cover on the livestream today was a significant change to the mesmer’s scepter mechanics!

You see, they’re also going to be buffing the scepter’s auto-attack damage!

By 5%!

Logic checks out, definitely an anet-worthy change.

Looking forward to the eventual changes revealed which will ultimately determine the state of mesmer for the next few months. Apparently I’m the only optimist here, pessimists feel free to continue your diatribe.

One could make a watertight case that your optimism is more accurately termed irrationality, and that the pessimism is more accurately termed realistic estimations based on evidence and experience.

Sure

Alex Shatter.7956:

I’m packing my bags pretty much.This was the most out-of-touch update Anet has ever thrown out. What is PvE

And yet you don’t know all of the changes incoming. GG

Fay.2357:

Sharkey.9805:

cyyrix.6105:

skcamow.3527:

Levetty.1279:

Will there be more on patch day or is this the complete list?

Today was a small preview for all classes.

Spoiler alert. Today’s preview contained 90% of the meaningful balance changes, just like every time they’ve said that in the past.

Think about it…if there were that many more changes coming, they wouldn’t have spent time revealing a 5% increase in scepter attack speed.

Oh, no cyyrix, you don’t understand! What they didn’t cover on the livestream today was a significant change to the mesmer’s scepter mechanics!

You see, they’re also going to be buffing the scepter’s auto-attack damage!

By 5%!

Logic checks out, definitely an anet-worthy change.

Looking forward to the eventual changes revealed which will ultimately determine the state of mesmer for the next few months. Apparently I’m the only optimist here, pessimists feel free to continue your diatribe.

Fay.2357:

Loony.3714:

Correct me if im wrong but didnt he say “there will be other buffs, these are just the ones I want to talk about” so dont panic yet

He said there will be other changes. I’m know I’m itching to see all the other nerfs to mesmer they didn’t talk about yet.

Karl’s exact words were, “there’s a lot of changes going in, there’s actually a lot of buffs”. He also stated the areas he covered were where we will see less sustain (aka nerfs). So I would expect most of the rest we haven’t seen to be buffs.

I’ve been running viper for awhile and that’s been a decent counter to DS due to the power damage. With the change it will be a bit more difficult because of our lack of wide condi spread and them cleansing so quickly. Will remain to be seen.

Daniel Handler.4816:

All auras in the game currently have tangible negative effects.
Burning, chill, stun, vulnerability (plus retaliation damage) , reflection.
Chaos armor dealt cripple, blindness and confusion.

If blindness became weakness it would be add more benefit to an already strong condi meta. Condi users can’t have glancing blows, and in a world of energy sigils altered endurance means nothing.

It would be a meaningless aura. The confusion it gives is not enough to cause meaningful damage, 1/3 to 1/9 as worse as the stack of burn from fire aura. The protection doesn’t protect against condition damage.

Beyond the occasional cripple (which doesn’t bother any ranged condi user) it would do literally nothing against any condi users.

Weakness certainly will help against viper, carrion or sinister. You really don’t see that much rabid/wanderer and settler is going away.

The change is fine IMO, it will help defend better against some of the more powerful dps builds currently and coming 1/26 when two of the four amulet additions are equal power/condi.

Soldier (even settler to a degree) should stay IMO, the problem with it wasn’t nearly as wide sweeping as the others in the list to remove. There are many non bunker bruiser builds that aren’t too strong making good use of that amulet.

Levetty.1279:

Will there be more on patch day or is this the complete list?

Today was a small preview for all classes.

Fay.2357:

Thoughts?

See what the final updates are before putting the nail in the coffin. We only got a small preview.

Universally they could give the core specs a piece of the elite. Each elite has varying functionality revolving around the common:

1. Weapon
2. Trait line
3. F skill
4. Utilities

For example, if they gave each core profession the ability to use the elite utilities that expands some options. You could potentially apply that idea to any of the other three elite functions. Like each profession could get access to the F skill. For mesmer that’s straightforward but for other professions some base functionality would need built-in with the lack of trait support.

Just some ideas. Obviously this wouldn’t bring core specs all the way up but would potentially improve them. Though, aside from massively buffing all the core specs I’m not sure they’ll ever be as strong as the elites.

Clearly they shipped the update today with a bug. This is 100% contrary to what they communicated would happen, unless I misunderstood somehow.

Something is definitely awry here, it’s not going as advertised. I suspect a bug.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

StickerHappy.8052:

Not everyone wants to be part of the braindead condi spamming meta.

As opposed to the braindead power spamming meta?

I prefer braindead hybrid.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Any nerf to Alacrity will only make Mesmer less desired and less fun to play. I have no faith that the Scepter changes will go as far as they should (i.e. complete rework) either.

Complete re-work on scepter is far from needed IMO. QoL tweaks yes, hopefully we see some of that.

Not too concerned about the coming alacrity nerf, I’m sure it will still be powerful.

Scepter buff sounds promising; I’m already pretty happy with scepter in the build I run and can’t wait to see what they are going to introduce.

Everything will hopefully be nerfed to the ground by the end of January after the next balance patch and all will be peaceful again.

I like most of the suggestions but in and of themselves they would never bring core mesmer up to the elite spec level. I really think the key to making core specs overall more in line with elites is to unfortunately nerf the elites, but I highly doubt that will happen to any great degree.

I like to run a dps build with arms but a bit more survivable with valk amulet.

With the signet trait the five stacks last so long, all you really need is the built-in passive to get decent crit chance and then rely on unsuspecting foe/burst precision for the rest. The passive is also so good for doing damage in this block heavy meta.

I do take dolyak signet though for the stun break and stab for days. That, plus durability rune gets you > 2,600 armor in a dps amulet (when active ofc).

You also don’t have to worry as much about popping healing signet for the extra resistance (combined with durability) since it comes back so quickly due to the trait.

For those looking for more viper condi build ideas, I posted one in this thread a week or so ago:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Any-good-condi-chrono-builds-pvp/first#post5862549

I like that variant the best with great defense with sword/torch. Rune/sigils are variable.

adelaide.6213:

skcamow.3527:

I’ve been having a ton of fun with this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAse7fn0nB1fi1qBmpBEgilXj68HCijr+XP2lFNAypjA-TJRHABVs/g3lBC4JAAwJBAA

It’s Viper so you’re really squish but there is a lot of baked in sustain with the condition cleanses, blocks on both sets, mental defense and torch stealth. I find this can burst similar to normal power shatter, just obviously differently. The power damage is definitely there though since these two MH weapons really shine in that area.

I have this decked out for team play and can be tweaked as necessary for solo, etc. I’ve also tried Sinister which works, but I find Viper to burst better and the extra condition duration is fantastic.

Using balth rune works really well to provide a decent third source of burning (without needing staff). With the condition duration in the ammy + burn duration from rune, it adds a solid third condition to your torment/confusion. Geo/Doom sigils round out the rest.

Note this is before the precog change. In a team build I wouldn’t run it but maybe you would in soloq. I think I played one or two matches with stab mantra vs precog and that actually worked pretty well. I’m sure there are other good options.

In general I’ve found balthazar runes lackluster for condi builds ever since the burning stacking change. Furthermore, burning for mesmers as a damaging condition has been really gutted since that change.

You’re probably incorporating the extra burning to use as a cover condi rather than filling the role of a dps condi. How would swapping balthazar with grenth runes (chill), and using hydromancy sigils work out for your build?

Could certainly work and would make for some very long chill procs with all the built in duration. Would also serve to set up bursts even more.

I like having a decent amount of conditions coming out and the burn on heal comes around so often that it actually still applies decent pressure along with the others. The condition duration is the big reason.

That said, there would still be two spread out burn sources and chill adds a potent addition. I’ve only tried balth so far, but I’ll give grenth a spin for a bit to see how it feels. Thanks for the suggestion.

I think it’s a great idea and I know a lot of folks have wanted this for some time. As an aside, I’m glad the AG tournaments have this rule. Even though the skill level on the whole is lower, those matches of late have been much more exciting than the pro league ones.

I’ve been having a ton of fun with this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAse7fn0nB1fi1qBmpBEgilXj68HCijr+XP2lFNAypjA-TJRHABVs/g3lBC4JAAwJBAA

It’s Viper so you’re really squish but there is a lot of baked in sustain with the condition cleanses, blocks on both sets, mental defense and torch stealth. I find this can burst similar to normal power shatter, just obviously differently. The power damage is definitely there though since these two MH weapons really shine in that area.

I have this decked out for team play and can be tweaked as necessary for solo, etc. I’ve also tried Sinister which works, but I find Viper to burst better and the extra condition duration is fantastic.

Using balth rune works really well to provide a decent third source of burning (without needing staff). With the condition duration in the ammy + burn duration from rune, it adds a solid third condition to your torment/confusion. Geo/Doom sigils round out the rest.

Note this is before the precog change. In a team build I wouldn’t run it but maybe you would in soloq. I think I played one or two matches with stab mantra vs precog and that actually worked pretty well. I’m sure there are other good options.

A whole week seems incredibly generous, especially given the season itself doesn’t last for more than a couple months. I think it’ll help some, but half that time would have been better to really weed out teams that aren’t as serious about competing.

Xyonon.3987:

skcamow.3527:

Xyonon.3987:

yea, but an annoying one – i also cant understand a skill who’s a stunbreak to have a long cast time, or a cast time at all :|

After some testing, the way it’s working at the moment is, the cast time is there for the laying down of the well itself.

For example, if you pop the skill when stunned, you will break it like any stun break, BUT you can cancel cast laying down the well with another skill or dodging, etc effectively putting the well on full CD.

It behaved like this pre patch already. But right now I can’t cast it while stunned, but skills like blink can be cast. It’s bugged is what I’m saying.

idk, in PvP the stun break works fine.

eldenbri.1059:

Has anyone tested if/how this interacts with Inspiring Distortion?

Do your allies get an extra second of distortion?

Yep, well of precognition now procs inspiring distortion. So the kicker here is that even if you wisely placed the well covering 1/2 or 1/4 of the point, because of the inspiring distortion proc, the point you’re trying to defend will almost guaranteed get at least 1 capture tick removed.

Xyonon.3987:

yea, but an annoying one – i also cant understand a skill who’s a stunbreak to have a long cast time, or a cast time at all :|

After some testing, the way it’s working at the moment is, the cast time is there for the laying down of the well itself.

For example, if you pop the skill when stunned, you will break it like any stun break, BUT you can cancel cast laying down the well with another skill or dodging, etc effectively putting the well on full CD.

I’m glad they opted for a shave as opposed to a hammer though obviously precog is still very strong. We’ll ultimately see in January.

As an aside, I thought it interesting they didn’t mention Deja Vu along with Echo of Memory, but one can assume the nerf applies to that as well.

Sounds kind of silly to ask this, but the patch notes mention a reduction to the block duration of Echo of Memory. Will the triggered skill Deja Vu also have this change or remain at the current 2.25s?

I’ve been running this on both berserker and marauder for the past few weeks to great success at my MMR levels (I also play on a team, so take that into account). You can still 1v2 for awhile until help arrives.

Countless, from one mesmer main to another, I appreciate you want our class to be properly balanced, but I think some of these suggestions are too heavy handed.

PVP – A problem with nerfing some of these things is that sure, it may address issues with bunkers specifically but will potentially neuter many other non-bunker builds for mesmer. Outside of bunker, chrono builds are for the most part balanced and in some cases hard to keep up with the other elites.

I’m not sure alacrity is the issue. Some other small things could be shaved which might take care of the whole problem, such as a small nerf to shield block channel duration and/or less blur duration on precog well.

Silverkey.2078:

I just want to mention that ‘More guns than roses’ bunker mesmer is using the resistance variant. Meta incoming?

I think it’s just the fact that either bunker or support can be viably played at the top tier. The biggest question when choosing whether not to bunker seems to be if TW is needed. When that decision is made, then the glamour trait will enter the discussion and subsequently the decision to sacrifice a well for null field.

I go through the exact same gymnastics with the build I currently run in my team (I play marauder though).

On the NA side …
supcutie and zeromis of Final Form both ran dom/duel/chrono.
zoose of Team PZ was running dom/insp/chrono.

foste.3098:

Something is very wrong with the balance of the game when almost no one uses non elite specializations.

This is what I’m getting at. I don’t think it was intended for the elite specs to be exorbitantly stronger than the base ones, but we ended up opposite of that for the most part.

That said, it was refreshing to see a few base specs in yesterday’s qualifier matches but the elite specs were still predominant.

With a couple exceptions, since HoT we’ve seen the strength of the elite specs literally take over the competitive scene. At the present time it’s glaringly clear that the elite specs are so strong that playing a base spec on most professions is noticeably weaker and thereby unviable.

I’m simply wondering if it’s Anet’s intent for the base professions to be as competitive/strong as the elites.

I do not want this to be a p2w discussion although I can see that does play into this conversation. I’m just genuinely wondering if we can expect the base specs to be brought in line with the elites, or vice versa.

If we now see more of this cele build in soloq, do as I will and have fun killing it over and over. As Silverkey pointed out, this build is built for a team setting and outside of that setting this build is borderline trash tier with celestial. Throw sentinel on it and it immediately improves one hundred fold.

Also … for all the illusionary inspiration haters – yeah with all that alacrity that single trait had a huge part in refreshing all those boons on his allies in those team fights. Yes I know you hate it for the interruption in your skill rotations and not the functionality itself. Helseth dealt with it, so can we. It doesn’t mean I’m saying it shouldn’t be tuned a bit, but it also doesn’t mean the trait is trash because of the current functionality, IMO of course.

nearlight.3064:

Countless played a cele Mesmer build that didn’t have any might stacking at all, but instead a ton of vuln uptime so his damage was still really good.

True, but ultimately he decided on carrion for that build I believe.

I believe celestial can definitely work on mesmer in all levels of soloq and even low to mid tier team play (high end it won’t work). This assumes the right build of course.

Before 6/23 I played a celestial utility build using sc/f-staff that worked decent. After 6/23 it only got better. Going chaos/insp/ill worked really well for me. This is what I use:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNArdWl0nhS1YtawRNwtGL9G05I6QrNDwFyI6N64KA-TZRHwADOEAFeCAc2fAwJA4YZAA

As others mentioned, celestial poses a problem for us because we lack good team healing utility. The tenets of celestial were already mentioned but I’ll echo them here. It must have

• Decent damage (power/condi)
• Decent ways to take advantage of healing power
• Decent ability to stack might

In this build I mentioned, power/condition damage is decent. This increases of course with might. Healing power is primarily utilized by perma regen and power return, which actually scales decently. While most despise it, I use illusionary inspiration which not only gives my team good regen uptime, it passively shares the gobs of boons I have semi-frequently. I play around the disadvantages, have just gotten used to looking for the signet animation when I cast a phantasm. These sources of healing are enough for me to justify the healing power investment of celestial. It gets better if you use ether feast or restorative illusions.

Now to the might. I struggled a lot with MtD vs shattered strength. I was on the latter for a long time and doing well but MtD staring me in the face 2 slots down was tearing at me. I finally went with MtD. To solve the might problem, I went with battle sigils on each weapon set. That, with BD and strength runes can easily keep 8-10 might stacks on yourself. Though it’s only two sources, the might lasts a very long time, especially with a good MW cadence. While those numbers aren’t amazing, it’s enough for me to justify. It provides a base from which growth is inevitable as you receive splashes of might from others in active fights. With any coordinated team able to share might from their builds, this build just gets stronger and stronger.

My build uses focus for the reflects, control and mobility. The reflects are of course situational but with all these DH’s running around it’s very nice. That said, it can be played with another OH weapon of choice and restorative illusions can be taken instead.

The build is very strong in both dueling and team play. I’m not saying it’s the end all/be all answer here, but it’s certainly something that can and does work in most PvP scenarios.

Finally, OP – I tried adapting my build to chronomancer in a similar fashion as your build using chaos/ill/chrono, sc/sh-staff. Here’s what I ended up with after BWE3:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAreWncfClqh1qB2fCEgilejyMAugMqeUX1XF916oVA-TZRGwAAOBAHOEAJeCAg2fYZZAA

It works rather well. I could sustain about as long as the other build, simply due to the shield block. Inspiration was sorely missed and there are a couple other pros/cons. To be honest though, I didn’t notice a big improvement from the other and would say they are close to even.

skcamow.3527:

Ithilwen.1529:

Related; I’ve aquired some of my first gear with Concentration qualities. Is a build known or being tested for boonshare?

Keep in mind concentration and expertise stats are currently bugged in PvP amulets (they don’t extend boon/condition duration). I’m unsure if this is relevant to similar PvE gear with those stats, but it may be.

Update – the boon and condition duration from these runes is now working. It must have been a very recent stealth fix.

This?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Full-Bunker-Chrono

Ithilwen.1529:

Related; I’ve aquired some of my first gear with Concentration qualities. Is a build known or being tested for boonshare?

Keep in mind concentration and expertise stats are currently bugged in PvP amulets (they don’t extend boon/condition duration). I’m unsure if this is relevant to similar PvE gear with those stats, but it may be.