Guild Wars 2

BurrTheKing.8571:

I don’t even know if that’s possible in the current game engine. I would guess that all burst skills are tied to the F1 mechanic. I have to wonder if it’s possible to change the recharge of burst skills without totally changing how burst works.

Also, just because you CAN burst on cooldown doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. You have to wait for some kind of opening. I would say the stuns come every 10-15 seconds on average.

Also 20s and 25s…for a 2s and 3s stun…now I KNOW you have no concept of balance

I would INSTANTLY never touch Mace/Hammer again with such absurdly long CDs.

How biased can you be?
Look at the average cooldown of stuns. Now consider that Earthshaker is an AoE 2s stun and Skull Crack is a 3s stun, the longest stun available in the game.

Yeah, let’s take a look:

Shield Bash (1s): 25s
Static Shield (1s): 40s
Concussion Shot (1s): 25s
Hilt Bash (1s): 25s
Magic Bullet (2s): 25s
Static Field (2s AoE): 40s
Signet of Domination (3s): 45

Now let’s take a look at Skull Crack and Earthshaker:
Skull Crack (3s): 10s
EarthShaker (2s AoE): 10s

How are those skills supposed to be balanced… seriously?
Best stun effects in the game, shortest cooldown.

BurrTheKing.8571:

You do realize this proves my repeated claim that Warriors continue to be strong because many players simply refuse to change/adapt their builds in any way right? Can you blame people for running Warrior when there’s tons of delicious Necro and Ranger to be had? There tends to be at least one of each.

Tasty.

I’m also noticing that you are part of a very small but vocal minority, only you and maybe 3 others are actively campaigning for this view of Warriors being OP.

Because this topic is in the Warrior subforum thanks to daecollo.

Back when it was in the sPvP subforum (as it was supposed to be, since it is an sPvP topic), I got way more consensum then on a profession subforum, which is well known to be frequented by biased players.

The discussion on this topic died when it was moved here from the sPvP subforum. I don’t even know why I am keep arguing, Warrior main players just don’t want to see reason.

I’ve even predicted it in the first page, but I have too much faith into the human race.

Well, this thread is lost now that it is in the Warrior subforum. There is no space of an unbiased discussion anymore.

Thank you, mods. Great job as usual.

BurrTheKing.8571:

The problem is, you can not nerf stuns without nerfing every burst skill. The CD reduction is tied to the Brawn “stat” in Discipline, it seems really unfair to nerf burst in general for 2 skills.

People also keep on talking like everyone insta uses the burst on cooldown which certainly isn’t the case.

You can easily use the burst on cooldown with the 0/10/30/0/30 build.

Want to hear the solution? Bring the base cooldown of Skull Crack and Earthshaker to 20s and 25s respectively. No nerf to any other burst skill, stun problem solved.

BurrTheKing.8571:

What about the 10 matches before that?

Also, who won?

I’ve won that match, you can check me on GW2shack as soon as it is refreshed. Also, that was the first match of the day, so can’t say about the 10 matches before.

I have a screenshot of the match after too attached. I will post match after match the professions I am matched with.

Last SoloQ match I’ve played.

Iscariot.4876:

1. Subjective commentary, not shared by all and not demonstrated in matches either by direct observation or by the simple and obvious evidence that top Pvpers don’t choose to play warrior or add warriors to their team comp.

2-3 Not evidence. Warrior is a flagship class of any fantasy MMO. They are always over represented by gross numbers. You might as well say that Humans are broken in GW2 because you see so many being played.

4. Bald faced lie. Completely false. 3 of the 40 players making up the teams of the finals and semi-finals of PAX and ESL were warriors. 6 of 40 in the latest MLG. I think you are talking about Guardians and Rangers who made up 8 and 9 players respectively.

The actual trend in high level play is encouraging that warriors are finding a place. Quit spreading poorly thought out misinformation please.

1. When was the last time you watched a competitive PvP match exactly? That is just a false statement.

2-3. In fact, human is not the most popular race in Guild Wars 2 competitive scene, but Asuras are, which are, in fact, broken for multiple reasons. I think you aren’t that much into competitive PvP. When you are talking about competion, there isn’t any preference. People just pick the best profession/race possible and it isn’t a case that FotM professions are usually the overpowered ones.

4. Warriors become FotM only for the PAX finals and, in fact, CC changed their team comp to add a warrior in it for finals, despite the fact that they never ran one since that point. Also, in the latest MLG tournament, 6 of the 40 players are warrior is an huge numer. That means that 8 teams out of 6 ran warrior. It’s a pretty high percentage considering that a Warrior does not fit any core role.
Guardian and Rangers, on the other hand, are mid point and close point bunkers, who are mandatory roles for every competitive team. Because of how conquest is designed and how those professions are designed, they are a requirement. Warrior, on the other hand, does not fit any of those roles, means that the only variety comes from the other 3 free spots and most of them are occupied by Warriors, which says much.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Rare? 3 of the teams had doubles and one made it to the finals. Dual Spirits no less.

You can have skill in a RPS game, it comes down to who preforms their designated roles the best.

It is the NA meta, you can use only the MLG tournament as sample.

In EU you barely see a single team with double profession. Also, the only time NA and EU were matched together, NA has lost 3 out of 3.

About RPS, it is not true at all. If you are rock and your enemy is running paper, you can perform as good as you like, but the chances you are going to lose are extremely high.

BurrTheKing.8571:

If they were over-preforming we would see multiple Warriors on each side like we did with Rangers or Necros. Them having a consistent place on a team is a GOOD thing. Ele needs to be given the ability to bunker as well as Guardian for the sake of variety. We’re seeing more team variety than ever, we even had dual Engis on TWO teams. The Winning team, Denial Esports, had Guard/War/Mes/Range/Thief, not one repeated class. Also of note, the second place team had dual Ranger and no Warrior.

RPS can work well because it means that no matter what there is a viable counter to something else. Team comp doesn’t decide the match if both teams build correctly. Granted this can hurt SoloQ but there’s nothing stopping you from switching to another character if you see that your team comp is poor. At the end of the game SoloQ is random and sometimes you’re going to get screwed by the dice.

Dual profession in a team comp is extremely rare. There was no known dual Necro team comp in any tournament and the only teams who tried to run dual profession never gone too far (dual engi, for instance, in MLG tournament or dual spirit ranger of SYNC at PAX). So no, what you are saying is not correct.

RPS is not good and I’ve explained you why. A competitive game is supposed to be based on skills, not builds.

Guild Wars 1 was that tied to builds that ArenaNet decided to completely scrap it while doing Guild Wars 2, so they know that RPS is unhealthy by experience.

Iscariot.4876:

People aren’t dealing with your proposed nerfs because there is no evidence showing that anything is broken. Nothing beyond your own insistence, and that makes your “fixes” really just ways to make things easier on yourself.

Current tournament match make ups and review of current tournament matches doesn’t show warriors over performing. In fact the newest tournament is the first time they are in-line. Your personal desire to make them weaker could damage that balance and send them back to the bottom.

If you want to help balance, get off the warrior forums and go to the Elementalists and Mesmers forums to get them a boost. I would suggest finding a way to have them compete for guardian and ranger team spots. The only 4 professions currently showing out of balance performance.

There is evidence that something is broken.

High level PvPers have said that Warriors are broken. SoloQ is overcrowded by warriors.
Numbers of warriors are out of proportion (as pointed out multiple times). Every competitive team have one warrior in their team comp.

I don’t even know what I have to futher show you to let you admit that Warriors are far too strong.

You are suggesting to create even more power creep just because you can’t admit that something is wrong with warriors.
Your suggestion is pretty much what has been said each time a profession was OP in this game history.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Of course you’ll do better as a Warrior, the fotm build counters what all the Necros/Rangers are running. Very few are bothering to counter it so no doubt it’ll be good.

I only really play SoloQ unless I’m short on time and need to quickly finish my daily. Like I said there seems to be a fairly equal amount of Warriors, Necros, and Rangers. If you join a match right after the last one chances are you’ll be paired up with the same people.

I’m perfectly fine with R-P-S balancing, an ideal form of that is that every class has a build that counters another classes build. That’s hard to do however but seeing as they’re focusing on buffs and not nerfs I’d say they are trying to give more options. As someone who now exclusively plays Warrior, Engi and Guardian weren’t that fun for me, I know that the Hammer/Longbow build certainly doesn’t counter everything, I listed multiple counters before.

Also, Warriors are getting nerfed in the form of the Sigil of Paralyzation change/fix/whatever. So with that and taking runs of Mel stuns will be greatly reduced in effectiveness.

I guess that we won’t come to a real conclusion if you keep saying that you meet Rangers, Necros and Warriors in the same amount and I meet pretty much only warriors, so the best thing to do is to leave the population argument out of the topic for now.

The thing I’d like to point out is that rock-paper-scissor balancing is not healthy for a competitive game. Why? Because you can determine which one is going to win by just looking at the team composition. It is boring to play, boring to watch and does not rewards skill at all.
Build, as I’ve said, should give only a very small edge over your enemy if it is a direct counter, the outcome should be determined by timing, error avoidance and, of course, class knowledge, which is pretty much what skill is in Guild Wars 2.

I’ve also pointed out that Sigil of Paralyzation change is only a minor nerf to warriors. First, because the opness of Warriors does not come from the stun duration and second because Warriors have very high base stun duration.
The builds which will be hurt by this change will be those builds with small and utility-oriented CCs, like S/P on Thief, GS and SB ranger.

BurrTheKing.8571:

EDIT: Also, take a look at this. These are supposedly the best of the best and as you can see Warriors where not over-preforming in any way.

How can you say that Warriors are not overperforming posting that when you clearly see that every team have one warrior with the same Hammer/longbow build? Only FML is an exception, but they run a pretty odd team comp anyway.

Also, it is an NA tournament. It is well known that the NA competitive scene isn’t exactly the “best of the best”.

Iscariot.4876:

Other than the sarcastic photo-shop it has plenty of meaning. He brought this from another thread where he is countering anecdotal complaints with his own anecdotal results. No, it isn’t proof and it isn’t the best form of evidence. But, it does equally counter the nerf warrior qq which is entirely anecdotal.

Even if this is hot-join, it is better than most of the solo-roaming wubwub crying. At least he is definitely fighting warriors with equal gear levels. That’s way better than the wubwub fairy tales you find filling the qq lines.

He posted that picture as an answer to my post.
I never posted anecdotal evidences, I’ve backed up any statement I’ve made with logical considerations and number comparisons. Also, everything I’ve said is based on SoloQ perspective, I barely play WvW.

That picture makes no sense at all and I find that only insulting to the argument, as a some sort of attempt to dumb it down.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I have to ask, how much have you played Warrior? If at all. Hammer is hardly a simple weapon. Missing a Backbreaker can be a deal breaker because of it’s 25 second CD, and it has a really obvious animation. Hammer is similar to Guardian GS in that it has a very clear combo and missing any part of it means a dramatic reduction in effectiveness.

I honestly don’t see an absurd number of Warriors in SoloQ during the times I play. I see around an equal number of Necros, Rangers, and Warriors. If you ask me it’s more that other classes need to be brought up, not that they need to be brought down.

If you reduce the effectiveness of stuns, especially on hammer, you’ll remove it from play after it’s finally become worthwhile. Hammer is DESIGNED to lock people down, if it can’t do it what’s the point? Locking down in addition to having decent FPS and survivability is what keeps Warriors viable. We still aren’t as tanky as Guardians, nor can we burst as well as a thief. We also aren’t nearly as hard to kill as Spirit Rangers were pre nerf.

As for Foot in the Grave, you can’t overlook the fact that if you get locked down while in shroud you’re not losing HP. Necros are still very strong against most classes so it seems a bit silly to expect that you should be strong against a build designed to counter you was well. I don’t expect to be able to consistently beat a good burst Thief/Mesmer with my current build, especially if they are building to counter me. I’ve also see several power based Necros that bring poison that counter me pretty hard as well. Even Engi can bring so much protection that I can’t kill them even if I hit a full hammer combo.

And the biggest point, ANet apparently wanted Warriors to be condition Necros natural predator just like Theives and Mesmers can be to Warriors. You can’t say that necros are exactly hard to play either. In fact, no class in this game is that hard. Engi and Ele can be a bit overwhelming in # of skills at the start but once you learn them it isn’t hard either.

I’ve jumped on the bandwagon at the start of september, about.
Not claiming to be a good warrior, but the sad thing is that I succeed too much to be a newcomer of the profession.

I’ve been moving around 500-1000 in the SoloQ leaderboards, pretty much I go up when I pick Warrior and when I’m about 500-600, I change profession and play Ranger/Necro/Thief and quickly go back down again. It is crazy considering that I don’t even have half of the time played on Warrior compared to the other professions I’ve mentioned.

Missing a Backbreaker isn’t a big deal. You have so many stuns that you can afford to miss it, including Earthshaker, which rarely misses and is on a 8s cooldown when traited.

I guess you haven’t jump on SoloQ as I’ve suggested? Because warriors are everywhere, not even close compared to Necros or Rangers.

I never suggested to reduce the stuns duration, neither to remove some stuns. I’ve suggested to give reasonable cooldowns to stunning burst skills so a Warrior missing them is punished, which is far from unreasonable.

About Foot in the Grave, that’s exactly the point I made. Necros can’t mitigate damage excluding Death Shroud and to get 3/7 stability uptime, you are not using Death Shroud. I’m not expecting to be strong against build designed to counter Necromancers (that’s anyway your opinion, since as far I know, Warriors counter everything right now), I’m just expecting this game not to be a rock-paper-scissor game and to give every profession the ability to win thanks only to skills, not the build you’re running. Builds can give you only a little edge over you enemy, not completely destroy his chances to win.

ArenaNet didn’t wanted Warriors to be necros predators, that’s a silly way to balance a game. ArenaNet wanted Warriors to be again in the meta (as it has been openly said), implementing its original design properly. But as it usually happens when you push a profession in the meta, it turns out to be OP.
It happened first to Elementalists, then to Rangers and to Necromancers after. Once they got toned down, they held a fairly good representation for a considerable amount of time after the buffs, without being crazy OP as they were right after the buffs.

I never said that Necro is hard to play. I’ve just said that playing the FotM warrior build requires no skills whatsoever, with the only difference that it destroys everything in its path.

BurrTheKing.8571:

You really should post the build you’re using. I get the feeling that you’re trying to be funny but this comes off more like a troll. I know this means little coming from me but you always present your points in such a…annoying fashion.

That being said some people think that I’m highly biased and ignore any counter arguments. I don’t feel this is true, sure of course I’m biased as a Warrior main but I still have yet to see any reasonable suggestions on how to balance Warriors. Most “suggestions” would send the class back to the stone age after a year-long journey to get where they are.

The only point I will concede that Skull Crack could use a better animation, but we better get a kitten cool looking animation. Maybe have a giant orange-red colored ether hand…thing.

I’ve posted a list of possible fixes to Warriors right now and they were far from unreasonable and warrior-destroying.

It has been ignored by pretty much everyone and the “warrior is not OP” show has gone on.

Because people don’t want their profession to be reasonably good, they just want their profession not to be nerfed.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Foot in the Grave + Close to Death will give you 3 seconds of Stability every 7 seconds. You also get Last Grasp with that line so that’s some Protection.

I see Warrior #‘s dropping once we see more Mesmers and burst Thieves. People running Necro/Ranger get wrecked by a Warrior because they have no counters, they make a Warrior. Now they discover that it isn’t quite as easy as they believed it to be. Yes, there’s a lot of Warriors running around right now, but how many of them are actually any good?

Also, are people basing their view of Warriors on SoloQ or Hotjoin? If you’re basing your opinion of a class on only Hotjoin then I urge you to dip into SoloQ because hotjoin is not something to base balancing decision on.

Foot in The Grave + Close to Death giving 3s of Stability every 7s is a misconception.
You can achieve that uptime of stability only if you just pop in and out from DS, without mitigating damage nor using any of the DS abilities. The real stability uptime with an average DS use is way less and way more underwhelming compared Balanced Stance or Stand Your Ground. Last Gasp, also, is just a little bit of Protection, it won’t save you from dying anyway.

Don’t fool yourself. Warriors are crazy easy to play and incredibly effective even at low skill levels. Day after day, more people are rerolling warrior from their main profession and getting easy wins with that.

You can’t really recognize a skilled Warrior from an unskilled one, since ALL the skill of a warriors is just to not stun your target if it is already stunned. Everything else is just skill spam.

I don’t play hotjoins at all. I play SoloQ and it is a mess of warriors.
I dare you to hop in and make a screenshot of a single match without at least 2 warriors in it. You have to make several attempts to succeed, guaranteed.

Daecollo.9578:

Unviable Yep.

Here is a picture of me vs Three Warriors.

Completely outplayed me with there awesome god-like-ness.

Daecollo, you have posted an heavily cut, uncensored edited image in which you can’t even distinquish the warriors and probably shot in hotjoins.

How can that picture mean something?

Solori.6025:

ok…so…this is still going on…gotcha…

umm.. Have any of you necro’s tried moving away from the condition build and building around wells and damage?

When I left 2 weeks ago that build was working fine in Spvp and WvW denying warriors the ability to sit in melee range with you.

On the other hand your squishy…but lets be honest…with all the -condi builds now floating around you’re almost useless anyway. . . .

Secondly, If you have a means to counter something yet you refuse to, you’re your own worst enemy and handicap. Any complaint you could have had becomes baseless.

Power-based builds are even worse than condition builds.
First, because power is mitigated by Armor and Warriors usually run with an hell lot of that.
Second, because power damage needs you to not to be stunned to deal damage, so while conditions still tick when you’re stunned, power damage does not.
Third, because if you are running well-heavy builds, you have less stunbreakers and you are way more squishy.

I personally love power Necro and I tend to play it when possible, but in the current Warrior meta, it is completely unviable.

BurrTheKing.8571:

The only classes not seeing play are Mesmer and Ele. It doesn’t even make sense that we’re not seeing more Mesmers considering how strong they are against Warriors. Even more so because the strength of the Warrior means a decline in conditions.

Ele is the only class that is severely lacking, every other class has at least one build that is worth using in PvP. That’s a hell of a lot better than any meta before now. Thieves and Mesmers can step up and keep Warriors in check we’re just not seeing many actually bothering to do so. I have also seen very few Necros/Rangers actually change their builds at all to mitigate stuns.

Mesmer are seeing a lot of play to be honest. The meta is shifting pushing Mesmer back in, it isn’t no more like it was 2 months ago were you see no mesmers at all in competitive play.

You can see that in SoloQ, TeamQ and high level PvP mesmers are fairly represented.

Warrior is by far over popular, which clearly means that people have decided to reroll Warrior because it is way more effective compared to other professions. It has the same representation, or even more, of Necromancers and Spirit Rangers back on the apex of their opness.

Of course the meta is better than any meta before (otherwise we aren’t getting better, but worse), that doesn’t mean that Warriors can’t use a little nerf to bring them on par with other professions.

As I’ve pointed out (probably in another topic), Necros suffers from really bad stun mitigation, even if they build completely for it. They don’t have enough tools to kite the warriors, neither the tools to avoid to be hit.
A Warrior can pop his long-lasting stability, so does the Guardian.
A Thief can just teleport away, a Ranger can block or evade the stuns, an Engineer can kite like a boss, spam blindness and block. A Mesmer can blink away, an Elementalist has not that much tools too. What about Necros? Stunbreakers, period.

Maugetarr.6823:

On my thief I usually invest 20-30 points into SA to try to counter condi-spam necros (and engis). Similarly I invest at least 20 in defense for cleasing ire on my warrior and also take runes of lyssa to have some sort of decent removal to even begin to fight condition builds. Maybe you will miss a stun occasionally with foot in the grave, but its there. I was simply suggesting that there are more options available than just stun breaks on a necro.

I said that we should leave apart the heavy trait investment.

The point is that even that, those 3s of stability comes at a pretty heavy cost and don’t save you from the focus of a single warrior at all.

When you are investing 20 traitpoints for Cleansing Ire or 20 traitpoints for Shadow Embrace, you get awesome condition cleansing that really gives you an edge against condition builds. That is not the case of Foot in the Grave.

Keep in mind that Necromancer are squishy even with toughness amulets. A single stun landed means 7-8k HP removed from your bar.

BurrTheKing.8571:

In the State of the Game videos it was mentioned that they felt Warriors were in a good spot. They also said that it took over a month for the current Warrior builds to develop and that they would rather wait and see to see what the players do before making any changes.

So they said that they want to let the meta settle before making any change.
That sentence was said way before Warrior were so popular in any gamemode. Just do a couple of SoloQ and count the Warrior population by yourself.

The meta has settled and not in a good way.

Red Falcon.8257:

You are the only one in need of comprehension of basic logic and maths.
Healing signet heals only 2k more than Surge – but only if the fight lasts 30 seconds, and it can be hard-countered with poison to a bigger extent than Surge, since you can cleanse+surge for full 10k but every second you’re poisoned you lose healing while using Healing Signet.

When math, logic, everyone and even Anet says you wrong it is really time to ask yourself if it’s not an issue of yours maybe?
I don’t see 5warrior team in tPvP.
If it was OP there would be, just like we had 5thieves 5guards 5eles teams when they were OP.

You can sit here crying or stop being mediocre and learn to play.
The game doesn’t change just because you’re bad, though.
If a Warrior with healing signet is your PvP limit you should just drop PvP entirely and go do some dungeons.

I am really under the impression that you are trying to trolling me, because you are saying to get some basic of logic and maths when you clearly have none.

Healing Signet heals 2k more than Surge, but Surge requires you to have full adrenaline to get the full heal and it is susceptible to interrupts. Not to say that Healing Signet heals for 7840 HP every 20s, which is WAY more than any other 20s cooldown healing skill and 5880 HP every 15s, still way more than any other 15s cooldown healing skill.

Also, to get a 33% reduction of the healing potential of healing signet in a 30s time window, you have to mantain poison on your target for 30s, while with Surge, you have only to mantain it during the cast. It is pretty much impossible to continuously mantain poison for 30s, while it is fairly easy to mantain poison when you know that your target is going to heal soon, which clearly means that Healing Signet is way less susceptible to poison compared to standard healing skills.

Do you even play SoloQ? Every match have at least 4 warriors.

Also lol @ logic, math, everyone and ArenaNet saying that I’m wrong. It is really laughable how bad and false your arguments are. Twisting facts is your specialization, you must be a lawyer, a bad one I’d say.

Maugetarr.6823:

If built for it, can’t necros have 3 seconds of stability every 7 seconds at this point (near to death + foot in the grave)?

Of course, but it means that you are not using Death Shroud at all, since to get 3s stability every 7s you have to just pop in and out.

Let’s not consider at all the heavy trait investment to get this stability for arguing purposes (30 points into a traitline and 2 traits).
It still means that you are eating any kind of damage the warrior is throwing at you on HPs without any chance to mitigate it, as it is well known that Death Shroud is the only form of damage mitigation of Necromancers. Also, you are still exposed to stuns for more than 50% of the time even in this fringe case, so since Warriors are able to chain stun idefinitely, you are going to eat at least 1-2 stuns in that non-stability window with ease.
Not to say that having stability without any damage mitigation will only be counter-productive since it only amplifies the damage output of Warriors thanks to Destruction of the Empowered.

I dare you to try Foot in The Grave and debunk this myth by yourself.

Red Falcon.8257:

Anet doesn’t think Hsign is unbalanced btw, no mention of this in the 15oct preview.
We are “pretty decent” in WvW and sPvP.

You guys just want to nerf Warriors instead of learning to play against them.
Well, bad news, Anet never nerfed anything just because a few people haven’t learned to counter it.
Thieves had 7000% more tears on their forums on backstab and haven’t gotten nerfed because backstab is balanced; same for Hsigned.

Stun meta will be fixed with the sigil fix, as for the rest you’ll have to forget that Warrior will be a free kill; I fear you will really have to learn.

I don’t know how you can know that ANet doesn’t think at all that HS isn’t unbalanced, have you some sort of internal source from ANet? As far we know, they can nerf HS in the next patch.

It has been talked about a lot of times about said “counters” and how they are uneffective compared to other healing skills.

It has been said that Healing Signet cannot be interrupt and it is less susceptible to poison compared to any other standard healing skill, while healing a lot more over time. I really don’t know what are the counters you are talking about.

People complained about the backstab combo, not backstab itself. The backstab combo was heavily and rightfully nerfed. First Assassin Signet, then Cloak and Dagger damage and finally Mug not critting anymore.

Stun meta will not be fixed with the sigil fix. The sigil fix is a nerf only to short lasting stuns, like Hilt Bash, Headshot, Sleight of Hand and so on, while warriors stuns, which have usually a very long base duration, are pretty much unaffected.

Red Falcon.8257:

I didn’t feel I needed to stick with your lack of syntesis ability.
You claimed healing signet is the cause of soldier-stat warrior dealing high damage, which is simply wrong.
Check your logic, if Hsig is nerfed people will just take Surge and the soldier+damage issue is still there.

Fortunately Anet staff isn’t made of clueless people and will fix the real issue instead of breaking a whole class out of ONE trait issue.

Have you some sort of comprehension problem?

Problem:
Warriors with soldier gear deals decent damage while having also incredibly high sustain which usually only Cleric gear can give. It is fine that they can deal average damage while being tanky, this is what warrior is about.
Cause:
It must be that Healing Signet gives crazy regeneration without you needing to spend a single point into healing power.

This portion clearly shows that in my opinion the problem isn’t that warriors can deal decent damage with soldier amulet, but that warriors can have the sustainability typical of cleric amulet without the need to spend a single point into healing power.

As long as Warriors are tanky but not sustainable, it is fine since they are tough at first but as long as the fight goes on, they lose to attrition because they lack the sustainability of a cleric build, which is far more strong in attrition fights but it comes at a cost of vitality and power. Right now Warriors have the tankyness and the damage of soldier amulet coupled also with the sustainability typical of clerics just because Healing Signet gives crazy HP regen at 0 healing power cost, which is what makes them so broken.

So stop with stupid personal attacks and get some comprehension skills.

Red Falcon.8257:

Sorry but that, to the rest of the world, is totally illogical.
You’re asking to make a lung transplant to a patient with kidney failure.

Logic works like this:
If the problem is “Warriors with soldier gear deals decent damage” you must find what is causing this.
The cause is currently unsuspecting foe allowing to crit reliably on soldier gear.
Therefore we fix that, and Warrior on soldier gear won’t deal decent damage anymore.

You could completely remove healing signet from the game and you would just have Warriors take Surge, still heal equally good, still deal decent damage on soldier gear.
You would not fix absolutely anything.

Mind to explain why you cut more than an half of my original post, took out only few sentences of my post out of their context and answer to them claiming that my logic is broken?

Ajax.4970:

sorrow.2364:

Maybe you missed the part that this build has 62% crit chance on stunned foes.

No I didn’t miss it, you have a 12% crit rate lets not act like Unsuspecting Foe gives a perma +50% crit rate. If your target has stability, stunbreakers or just the good sense to dodge your stuns you won’t benefit from Unsuspecting Foe. Sounds like an appropriate counter to me, Hidden Killer has no such counters and as such deserves its place as a Grand Master level trait.

sorrow.2364:

I repeat that warriors have way to completely cancel damage and I’ve listed also how. Don’t forget also that stunned foes usually don’t attack.

Yes you mentioned this before, however with only 3 utility slots and 2 weapons swaps we have to pick the best of them to suit our needs we can’t have them all. They have prohibitive cooldowns and so timing is key, other classes are able to use skills like phase retreat to teleport out of harms way, which can be traited for a 5 sec cooldown, Flanking Strike with no cooldown for evasion. As for repeating oneself;

Ajax.4970:

The best defence is to not get hit at all however, as a class don’t have the tools for that.

The Warrior is a very different class to those like a Thief or Mesmer and as such has different tools to get the job done.

The amount of stuns are enough to justify Unsuspecting Foe. The only case you won’t deal massive damage is when your enemy has stability, but that’s a small window anyway.

About damage cancelling, the build I was talking about has all the damage avoiding/cancelling possible. Vigor, Endure Pain, Berserker Stance and Shield Stance.

Brando.1374:

everything is too strong and too weak at the same time….. isnt that balance?

No, that isn’t balance.
Balance is when everything is not too strong, neither too weak.

To make a physics comparison, if something is standing still, it doesn’t mean that it is in a balanced position.

Lachanche.6859:

So if people melt in seconds due to condition overload in tpvp that’s perfectly fine and balanced but if a very strong runeset only works in 15v15 if you coordinate and build your team for it, yet the other side still has the chance to react, it is a blatant proof of unbalance ?

Anet should really hire you, you seem to sintonize well with their policy.

You missed a point.
Most people were complaining about conditions in PvP and everyone agreed that they needed to be toned down. Now they are not a big problem anymore since the meta shifted and they got nerfed a little bit.

Also, you clearly didn’t read or didn’t understand my last post.

Gorefiend.9675:

You are all over the place. First perplexity is op in 15v15, now it isnt and condi clear is. Let me be clear, you CAN condi overload a frontline no matter how much condi clear they have. You have to make a playstyle choice to do it as the group that went heavy into frontline for massive condi clear has made playstyle choices. That is what I love about this format.

Than, in that case, Rune of Perplexity are OP since you can easily land them and 5 (9 on warriors) stacks of confusion is a lot.

In both cases you have an imbalance.

The fact is simple, if Runes of Perplexity manage to trigger, their effect is arguably too strong.
But if you can reliably prevent Runes of Perplexity to trigger to the point that they aren’t a problem at all, then there is an imbalance on the other side, because preventing completely those runes to work means that either stuns are completely worthless (imbalance) or that condition removal is too much.

That’s what I mean with power creep vs power creep. Food buffs and PvE-like gamemodes stresses those power creeps a lot more compared to sPvP and that’s why most people think WvWvW is imbalanced by design. It is because everything is too strong and too weak at the same time.

Gorefiend.9675:

sorrow.2364:

You said it.
Frontliners have a good amount of condi removals, frontliners are also the same who runs with Runes of Perplexity and are able to stack 9 confusions with a single interrupts.

Runes of Perplexity are broken, no matter how you can prevent them, you can’t always make sure that an AoE interrupt won’t land. Being able to stack confusion as easily is broken.

Re-watch the video and pay attention to how quickly the conditions are wiped from the eles party members (all frontline). So if they can get a lucky cc and stack confusion, it will be wiped in a matter of seconds.

It’s funny, because incredibly broken runes (yes, they are in any other circumstance) are overshadowed by another imbalance that you have pointed out which is the huge amounts of condition removals in a 15vs15 environment.
It’s power creep vs power creep, the apex of imbalance.

Lachanche.6859:

You are wrong on three different levels:

1. warrior/guardian frontliners run runes of the soldier.
2. the fear applied by necromancer frontliners doesn’t count as an interrupt and therefore doesn’t trigger perplexity runes.
3. runes of perplexity apply 5 stacks of confusion.

You can have your opinion of the 15v15 format but runes of perplexity are not an issue there as long as your team rotates stability and shouts properly.
I can only see them being effective after a well coordinated well of corruption/null field push (which is hard to pull off and easy to defend against = balanced) or during thieves/mesmers deathsquad incursions against backliners (which are high risk high reward = balanced).

This game wasn’t designed with 1v1 in mind, runes of perplexity are the perfect example of that.

Wait, now Warriors run Rune of the Soldiers over perplexity? So they don’t run hammer+runes of perplexity+distracting strikes? What a loss of potential, then.

Gorefiend.9675:

sorrow.2364:

’cause in those 15v15 matchups nobody is going to use AoE stuns/daze, like Earthshaker, Wail of Doom, Chaos Storm and Static Field, right?
So it is only a hearsay that in WvWvW hammer trains are fairly popular.

Gorefiend.9675:

Runes of Perplexity fit in so well with teams because there does not exist a way for you to reliably get the confusion to proc AoE. It is impossible to spam that level of confusion on an entire group. The amount of AoE abilities that proc confusion that are not nullified by stability pales in comparison to that of single target. Add onto that the amount of natural condi removal a good frontline will have the runes are not at all overpowered. That rune would best be used on the role of counter periphery.

Not only stability as well; there are also large amounts of blind being thrown about. If you watched the video, remember when the necros called out their plague form? That means they are sitting in the opponents frontline spamming blind making them swing at air.

You said it.
Frontliners have a good amount of condi removals, frontliners are also the same who runs with Runes of Perplexity and are able to stack 9 confusions with a single interrupts.

Runes of Perplexity are broken, no matter how you can prevent them, you can’t always make sure that an AoE interrupt won’t land. Being able to stack confusion as easily is broken.

Daecollo.9578:

Well, if you made it like a channeled ability that lasts forever, you can use it when ya need it instead of just draining all your int for a small attack that could get interrupted.

That’s not the point. Every thief will still drain all of its initiative on Unload anyway on P/P with your suggestion. The point is that nobody wants to have only an option to spend initiative on in a weapon set.

I kinda agree with Daecollo for the first time ever.
Unloads need to be changed, not as he proposed, but needs a change.

Right now P/P is only Unload, there is no reason at all to use any other skill just because Unload gives the max damage output available.

They should rework unload giving it some utility in order to not completely make P/P only about draining initiative on unload.

Ajax.4970:

Confirms the awful crit chance I was talking about, and you might get the odd 4k earthshaker and skullcrack is a higher damage single target skill so this doesn’t surprise me that it hits high when it does crit.

The reason the other skills come into the equation when talking about healing signet is that defence needs to be assessed as a collection of skills. Some classes and builds are about not getting hit and therefore don’t require the same amounts of mitigation or healing , other are built entirely around mitigation and/or healing for the majority of their defence. You can’t just compare the healing skills from one class with the healing skills of another and just say they should provide the same amount of hp/s that just doesn’t work.

Maybe you missed the part that this build has 62% crit chance on stunned foes.

I repeat that warriors have way to completely cancel damage and I’ve listed also how. Don’t forget also that stunned foes usually don’t attack.

Gorefiend.9675:

1v1 yes they are broken. We are talking about 15v15 though.

’cause in those 15v15 matchups nobody is going to use AoE stuns/daze, like Earthshaker, Wail of Doom, Chaos Storm and Static Field, right?
So it is only a hearsay that in WvWvW hammer trains are fairly popular.

Gorefiend.9675:

So you don’t really care about the buffs the food brings but rather the method you go about obtaining it. Never mind that the food buffs are all actually balanced within themselves. Just your problem with them is how you obtain that buff? Seems pretty petty to me.

Runes of Perplexity fit in so well with teams because there does not exist a way for you to reliably get the confusion to proc AoE. It is impossible to spam that level of confusion on an entire group. The amount of AoE abilities that proc confusion that are not nullified by stability pales in comparison to that of single target. Add onto that the amount of natural condi removal a good frontline will have the runes are not at all overpowered. That rune would best be used on the role of counter periphery.

Have I just read that Runes of Perplexity are not broken?

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m not sure why you guys lack the ability to solve this Elementary School problem.

Problem:
Warriors with tank gear and still high damage by relying on stun+unsuspecting foe.
Cause:
It’s totally not the fact that a trait allows a tank build to get high damage, it must be healing signet!
Solution:
Simple! We nerf healing signet which does nothing to prevent this exploit to work, but screws up a lot of other builds. So we don’t solve anything at all, but create more problems!

God I’m glad this game is developed by a team of adults.

No, I see the problem in another perspective.

Problem:
Warriors with soldier gear deals decent damage while having also incredibly high sustain which usually only Cleric gear can give. It is fine that they can deal average damage while being tanky, this is what warrior is about.

Cause:
It must be that Healing Signet gives crazy regeneration without you needing to spend a single point into healing power.

Solution:
Nerf healing signet base healing and make it scale more with Healing power, so it prevents those warriors to have also crazy sustain other than high damage and toughness. Also, slightly increase the signet active effect.
We will solve the fact that a 0 healing power warrior has better sustain compared to a 1400 healing power tank.

I like you attempt to call your opinion as a mathematical truth, though. Nice try.

tattoohead.3217:

Im at work or I would post a pic of my Necro Thats full Solders + Sentinel Weapons and Ascended accessories. the only part i don’t have an exact stat for is my attack (you will notice I said attack not power) and i do know its over 3k. Take a look on the Necro forums its not uncommon for a bunker to sport insane stats like that. It doesn’t help us not get murdered when focused and stunlocked

As far as the Ele argument look it up in the wiki, most auto attacks have a .5 sec cool down and you have plenty of instant cast ability’s to follow that up with. The fact is someone compared Elementalist (the best overall sustain class) to Warrior (one of the worst sustain classes)

You have yet to shot me which combination of skills an Elementalist should perform to cast 4 skills in a second and how he can replicate those skills every second.

I’ve already said to you that any skill has an aftercast delay other than a casting time, except obviously for instant skills. That’s why you can’t cast a skill right after it has been casted. You can’t just sum casting times of skills because in reality there is an aftercast delay of about .2-.3 (depending on the skill).
You can test the skills you are claiming to be casted twice in a second and you’ll see that you barely manage to start the second cast at the end of the second.

Waiting to get a screenshot from your Necro.

Just saying, having 3.5k armor and 33k HP on Necro means that you have about 2580 toughness and 2379 vitality in the same build, which is pretty much impossible, even with full ascended gear.

Ajax.4970:

The fix to Sigil of Paralyzation will drastically bring down the window where UF is applied, however to get the stats you spoke of earlier my point was that you won’t have good base crit or the crit damage to deal the massive damage. Screen shot me a character window with these golden stats that let you deal this uber damage.

Warriors have some tools on long cooldowns for windows of defense, they are not quite up to par with the tools other classes have to kite around avoiding damage and I don’t think they should be. You’ve made my point for me, Warriors would be OP with the armour level they have AND those tools, but the point was that is why they need that level of armour and mitigation.

Pic of the warrior I’m talking about attached.
Keep in mind that it is PvP, where Crit damage cap is about 50-60%.
This build has Unsuspecting Foes, which means 62% crit damage on stunned foes.

I can show you also a log if you want to realize which kind of damage this build does. 4-5k damage on Earthshaker or Skull Crack are fairly common.

You didn’t explained why having that insane healing capability comes into the equation. We have said that armor+HP is a fair tradeoff from the lack of escapebility of other professions, but this topic started from Healing Signet, not armor, neither HP.
Most professions to get the healing capability provided by Healing Signet alone have to bring Cleric amulet, which completely destroy their damage output and vitality.

I guess they will reduce the boon stolen to 1 and hopefully bring back the initiative cost of LS to 1.

Ajax.4970:

To achieve those stats you would have little crit chance or crit damage, hardly going to deal massive damage, sustained damage yes, massive damage no.

The other thing which you need to bear in mind is that 3.2k armour is nowhere near the defence that you can get from much lighter armoured classes can with mobility, evades, teleports and stealth. Melee Warriors have to get up in peoples face and then get kited around constantly. With the lower armour and none of the mobility and evades other classes have we would be no threat whatsoever, i.e. we have to be where the damage is and mostly just take it to be able to dish it out. The best defence is to not get hit at all however, as a class don’t have the tools for that.

Unsuspecting Foes.
That’s 50% crit chance for pretty much all the time.
Added with good base crit damage, you can really deal massive damage with that build.

Warriors have tools to completely mitigate damage, they are just not as prominent as other professions. There are some blocks, some evasions (on GS), vigor on stances, endure pain and berserker stance, stuns (which are also defensive) and so on.

Those are simply different professions. Imagine if warriors were able to evade like thieves, that would be insanely broken.

tattoohead.3217:

@sorrow my necromancer has 3.5k armor 33khp and 3.2k attack but i certainly don’t think its OP. My Engineer has anywhere between 2.9-3.2k armor and like 22k hp… Im not trying to be rude or anything but that’s not a good point and Healing sig is effected by Healing Power its a .05 multiplier.

Also saying that the ele comparison is unfair… is unfair and misinformed. An Ele can use 3-4 ability’s a second every second. Heck just using there auto attack (2x a second) its 336 HPS, you tellin me that’s hard to do?

It’s impossible to get 3.5k armor, 33k HP and 3.2k attack on Necromancer with the same build (I’m not even sure you can get to3.5k armor at all). It’s not by spreading lies that you will prove something.

Please, tell me how I can as an elementalist use 3-4 abilities per second every second. Keep in mind that skills have an aftercast delay too.

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors are fine.

So since i’m passionate about a class, my feedback isn’t meaningful?

So I should just ignore you now then, /endthread

Yeah, it isn’t meaningful if you are that passionate about a class.

You won’t say to a mother that her son is an a – hole because she will always say that he isn’t, even when he obviously is.

I was there to say that Thief was OP when he was, I was even the one saying that FS was overbuffed way before it became the new meta, even if I play Thief and I really enjoy the profession.
I was there to say that Necromancer became OP after the July patch even if I’ve been playing Necromancer since start.

Being passionate about a profession doesn’t mean that you need to completely forgot reasoning and defend your profession a priori.

Ajax.4970:

Healing Signet is strong against attrition builds/classes and poor against burst builds/classes.

Why is this discussion still going on? Is the hard counter to every strong build really just moan on the forum till its nerfed?

You are right, Healing Signet isn’t that good by itself against burst builds. But, on the other hand, being able to reach 3.2k+ armor is. Uh, you can also have 24k HP and 2.2k power while doing so, dealing massive damage per hit.

The fact that it doesn’t scale with healing power at all and that its regeneration is insane even at 0 healing power is broken.

tattoohead.3217:

So the ele heal is base 168 without traits or gear its multiplied by .08 healing power
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Restoration

The warrior skill heals for 392/sec with a .05 healing multiplier
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet

Lets say your an Ele just using your Dagger fire attuned auto attack with a cast time of .5 you will have 336 HPS just from that. (168 × 2) You can easily burst 3-4 ability’s in 1 second giving you 672 HPS or more.

So what can we take from this, WAR has 400 HPS all the time and ELE has 672 HPS or more in combat. I would give the advantage to Elementalist here.

Also consider that gear wise Eles are more apt to take + Healing Power so that # just gets stronger

And before you go saying that its not fare because ele’s are easier to shut down remember we are looking at the skills in a box. If you bring skill into the mix it opens up a whole world of possibilities. And to that i say L2P and stop the QQ

That’s an horribly unfair comparison.
An elementalist is capable to cast 4 skills in a second once for a long period of time only to get about 50% more healing. A warrior can just sit and wait to get more healing of 2 elementalist’s casts.

It will be still useless, since it is on 40s cooldown and you won’t get any heal.

It’s Daecollo, guys.
To him Warriors need even better healing compared to what they already have.
800hp regen per second on cleric is definitely not enough. It is well known that other profession can regenerate passively over 2k per second.

JKwervo.7852:

Everything you’ve posted.

You missed this part while being into a rush for writing your worthless post:

Please, point me out the nonsense I’ve posted and explain me why you think it is a nonsense

Bacon.4918:

I barely visit these forums and yet from past experience I have learned not to take anything sorrow posts seriously. The guy just posts nonsense and argues with people; just ignore.

It’s funny when you take time to argumentate your reasonings then a random guy out of nowhere comes and say “don’t take sorrow seriously” with no counter argument given at all.

I brought up several arguments in the past pages of this topic and none of them has been addressed properly. Everything I’ve said in my posts has been logically and mathematically (when possible) proved.

Please, point me out the nonsense I’ve posted and explain me why you think it is a nonsense, instead of coming here and start spitting poison with no apparent reason.

Daecollo.9578:

Protection is equal to having 2750 (Armor.). Its literally an extra set of armor.

Our Condition defenses are probably getting nerfed.

Which isn’t permanently available, but only for small time windows and on long cooldown.

Warriors, on the other hand, can easily reach 3k+ armor, which is a permanent protection, which is something that light armoured professions can only dream of.

silentnight warrior.2714:

You said it all. Protection is a must. Warrior dont have that. Its more important than HP/heavy armour. They could take elementalist protection away and give them armour and hp and it would be a huge nerf to them. You can see the warrior state before healing bufs and take conclusions. No HP/Armour was good enough to make a diference.

Now thieves: How do you damage someone you dont see? And dont bring the old argument “Spam AoE”. It only works if the thief is weak.

Protection is not a must.
Protection is half a replacement of armor with no 100% uptime. If you were able to mantain protection permanently (which isn’t the case anymore), then I’d say that it is a good replacement over armor, but since it can’t be mantained it isn’t as good as heavy armor.
That’s why bunker elementalist isn’t viable anymore. I’d say that if you give to elementalist heavy armor and high HP pool taking away protection, most of them will be extremely happy.

Warrior pre-buffs was weak because it had not enough condition cleansing and healing, now they rightfully buffed them, but they have way crossed the limit.

A stealthed thief is not attacking you. So why are you so eager of hitting him if he’s not harmful at all? Wait him to destealth (because he has to) and blow him some hits while he’s on revealed.
You can even swing some blind autoattacks trying to damage him if you want, but you don’t really need to do so.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Would be safe to assume you are not packing high toughness with your spec as well.

Pretty much.
When you are glass cannon vs glass cannon, the one who hits first usually wins, without considering some exceptions.

silentnight warrior.2714:

If HP/Armour is so important why elementalists where god mode in the bigining? Why thieves/mesmers are so good in surviving?

It should be their armour/hp.

Because they had insane healing capability due to Signet of Restoration (now nerfed) and permanent protection uptime (due to boon duration, now nerfed).
Warriors have the insane healing capability and natural protection due to higher armor.
Now, please, pick up an ele and tell me that armor and HP don’t matter.

Thieves are good to surviving only because they disengage at will. If you manage to land two blows, they are dead. Try to run a thief as you would play on a Warrior and see how they survive.

Daecollo.9578:

Can’t wait for having the ability to almost completely get out of any fight I desire, stealth and heal a lot, tank and steal boons and have more armor then a Warrior does due to protection.

Can’t wait for having 2-3 escapes ready just in case SHTF and the ability to completely aggravate my opponents to death.

Can’t wait for almost all my heals to heal almost all of my conditions instantly and have the ability to almost perma-blind my target with almost no cost whatsoever.

Can’t wait to remove 2 conditions each time I stealth!

You are spreading so much disinformation that it isn’t worth answering you anymore.

Zorgog.3908:

Dear OP,
Here’s a hint: it starts with an “S” and rhymes with “tunbreak”. Use them. I don’t even play a warrior usually and don’t find that fighting them is that big of a deal.

I run with two stunbreaker (I’ve pointed it out multiple times in this topic), as much as everyone else is doing in this meta, but they are far from enough. The recharge of stunbreakers can’t match the amount of stuns and their recharge.

Scoobaniec.9561:

1.Heavy armor means nothing in this game. Stop acting like its a game based on stats and nothing else. Everyone knows that toughness after certain point is a crap.

2.High hp pool olny means u can take 3-4 hits more than a low hp class.

3.Good mobility? Show me that mobility in cc builds. If we want any kind of mobility we have to get sword or gs, or both. Show me mobility on hammer+lb or hammer+mace/shield, i will have good laugh.

4. What amount of blocks exacly u talking about? A shield that blocks attacks for 3sec on 30cd? A single mace block every 10sec? Sword offhand on 15cd that blocks ranged hits/1 melee? Not to mention that if u decide to pick anything else outside of that u don’t have any blocks. But i know these legendary 4 set warriors.

5. Endure pain works 4sec on 60cd, hardly gamebreaking.
Berserker stance works 8sec on 60cd, hardly gamebreaking.
Balanced stance is a boon that can be stripped, working for 8sec and has 40 cd..

And don’t start on signet cause i know these legendary 20 slot utility warriors too.

6. Insane regeneration? In current state its fine and far from op when we look at our weapon skills. As i said try running a hybrid build without cc and watch how “op” that regen is.

7. As for guardians, they have many ways to recover hp back. Keep in mind that healing signet is our 6 ability with no utility.

1. Heavy armor means a lot, as much as an high HP pool. You have to play Elementalist for a short while to understand that, because you clearly never played it and probably any light armor profession at all.

2. Read above.

3. Mace/Shield + GS. Great stuns, great mobility. Mace/Shield + Hammer/longbow is for superior AoE.

4. 3s on a 25s cooldown when traited. It is a 12% overall block uptime. Add Endure Pain, which is a 6% uptime. So it is 18% damage mitigation uptime. Add 2 dodges every 10s (while under vigor), which is another 15% of damage immunity time, for a total of 33% of direct damage damage immunity time.
Now of that 33% direct damage immunity time, Warriors have an extra 13.5% damage reduction over light armoured professions. That means that at base armor you can evade 33% of the hits and reduce 13% more damage. Not to say that sunned enemies usually don’t attack.

5. Endure Pain lasts 6s when traited on a 60s cooldown and it is complete immunity to direct damage.
Berserker Stance lasts 10s when traited on a 60s cooldown and it is complete immunity to condition damage.
That means that with those two, you can gain 100% immunity to both conditions and direct damage for 6s (10% of the time). Rather stupid.

6. Regeneration is still OP. 8k HP over 20s from a single skill only is too much for every healing skill in this game.

7. So has Warriors. Healing Signet isn’t the only way to gain HP for warriors.

Daecollo.9578:

Wow I don’t even know what to say.

Look, do whatever you like, if Warrior gets nerfed I will just play my thief since it will be a Warrior that is just way better.

Can’t wait to have insane base armor, insane passive healing, insane stun capability, condition/damage immunity, stability, 18k base HP, insane condition removals on my thief too!

Can’t wait for having the ability to stacks loads of might and mantain fury permanently on my whole team too.

Daecollo.9578:

Blinds and Stealth mitigate a LOT OF DAMAGE and can completely negate the damage of a warrior.

Berserker Stance is an opening, not a get out of jail free card, and unlike stealth, its cool-down isn’t 4 seconds.

Stealth mitigates no damage at all.
Stealth is just a disengage/reset mechanic, nothing else.

Blinds mitigates damage, of course, so does Shield Stance, Endure Pain and an insane base armor.

Berserker Stance isn’t an opening. It’s a “I don’t want to be slowed down, neither I want conditions” skill. It’s a get out of jail card over conditions and, in case you didn’t know, conditions are the main causes that prevents you to run away.

Stealth isn’t on 4s cooldown, Revealed is.

Daecollo.9578:

Healing isn’t the biggest defense in this game, its the ability to completely avoid damage, which thieves do via stealth. When your stealthed you can’t even be targeted. Most of the time that means your not even taking damage and you can slip away out of sight.

Stealth also offers some of the most powerful attacks in the game, and can be spammed. In SPVP I fight thieves who literally CAN ONLY BE KILLED IN A 4 SECOND TIME PERIOD or they de-stealth fully healed again because they just can’t be targeted, they arn’t taking damage because I don’t have the AOEs to keep up with them.

Warriors don’t have teleports, portals, stealth, get out of jail free cards. We don’t have protection, aegis, blinds.

I don’t know where you want to go with this post. Is this supposed to be a “Stealth is OP, Warriors is UP, please buff” post?

Thieves doesn’t completely avoid damage via Stealth, they just don’t let the enemy see where you are. It is useful only to disegnage and reset the fight, period. It has also an hefty cost to go into during a fight, because you have either to land a CnD on melee, or you have to leap finish a considerable amounts of time into a smoke field without hitting any foe while doing so, or throw down a Shadow Refuge, which has a clear counter through knockbacks/pulls and AoE in the area.

Warriors completely avoid damage through stances and Shield Stance and they just need to push a button to do so.
Warriors can spam burst skills too and they are even more powerful than Stealth attacks (it’s numbers here, not even going to consider a counter argument from your side to this point).

You have no AoE, don’t you? I guess what Combustive Shot, Earthshaker and Arcing Arrow are.

Warriors have get out of jail free cards. It is called Endure Pain+Berserker Stance, or running with Shield Stance, or Rush + Whirlwind attack, or Savage Leap. Or just running after you used Balanced Stance.