Guild Wars 2

jportell.2197:

And the counter against any other bunker? A bunker is not a bunker if they die 1v1 they prolly won’t win that 1v1 but they definitely shouldn’t lose. Also another good counter to an engi running this trait earth shaker. Eviscerate warriors can wreck us quite easily when we get stun locked.

Yeah, so instead of “call a teammate” now the counter is “change profession”. Even better.

Also, it has already been said that bunkers aren’t unkillable in 1vs1 despite what people seems to believe and there are also various proofs in any good players’ streams.

@Sorrow

the difference between 87 and 140 bleeds, it’s the dmg, as you saw on ron’s video, a bunker necromancer at low condi dmg was able to easily get him to 25% hp, without using terror or burning. If he woulda had those or normal condi dmg, he woulda easily killed the engi

also… the video was staged, once engi hits 25% the necro just spawns auto attack with 5s bleeds

Also… when do you ever see a necro holding home or pushing far point ? that’s just silly

also… thinking that pushing far and keeping the point neutal while holding 1-3 players at their home is hurting your team, that’s just silly…

He wouldn’t kill the engi.
Once he hit the 25% hp barrier, the engi could have just cleansed with elixir and sit on 25% HP indefinitely.

The video was not staged. At the end the necro was just autoattacking to show how regeneration outhealed the damage and it was all automatic.
Before, you can clearly see the Necro using all of his skills trying to kill the engi, but nothing he can do.

Even the first video, the one in which the engineer dies, shows how the damage is near to zero and can be permanently outhealed while you are under 25% HP. Then the engineer healed and died because he brought no condition removal against a condition spec.

You guys see only what you want to see. How can someone have an unbiased argument why you are openly and carelessly biased towards your profession?

About the last part, nobody talked about holding 2+ players, I mentioned only one player. In that case, both of them are useless to their respective teams.

Andele.1306:

Dont change current vampiric master, ok maybe add that the minions heal themself for the same amount, but in general it does its job well (only of the vamp traits that does actually, how funny thakittens tied to kitten ed minions).
Also about the grandmaster traits, i got a few of my ideas:
Aura of the Vampire – Each time you siphon health, nearby allies (600 range) are healed for 50% of the amount
Inscriptions of Pain – Well duration is increased to 10 seconds and apply 1 second of retaliation pre pulse.

I’ve just added the extra healing on death to make that trait worthy even when you want to sacrifice your minions.

About your grandmaster traits, here’s my thoughts:
- The first one won’t be that useful. Health siphoning is still extremely low, 50% of it is too low to be a grandmaster trait.
- The second one is just too strong. 15s WoP and WoD are just… well, insane.

Wind.1324:

Changing traits around is one thing but to me the issue still lies with Healing power.

Vampiric builds tend to be power based which means we already have tools available in terms of Healing:

-Death into Life, 5% if power converted to healing (2400 power, 120 healing)
-Blood Magic Line, healing power stat bonus (50-300)

So my build (30/20/0/20/0) has at minimum 320 healing ready to go meanwhile Vampiric, Vampiric Precision, Vampiric Rituals, and Vampiric Master are not affected. This puts us in a weird spot where we have to decide whether or not to drop a Life Stealing trait or go all in. Allowing Healing Power to do the job would give us more options to decide whether we are getting Vampiric from gear/stats or trait bonuses. This will allow more build versatility.

That’s why I tried to add more traits which scales with Healing Power.
Also, I think that Blood Magic and Soul Reaping just have no synergy at all, because you can’t be healed, nor siphon health when you’re in death shroud. That’s why I think that the Soul Feast trait is a good idea.

I also think that, maybe, the “Vampiric” trait should be a major trait. Minor traits should be something of overall utility.

jportell.2197:

Okay so what I have gathered thus far from this thread.
1. In a 1v1 a bunker of any type should lose to a condition build even when built to directly counter conditions. (Balance?)
2. Sitting at 25% health requires absolutely no skill.
3. Full condition builds should have no direct counter and be able to steam roll 1v1 anyone.

4. Bunkers should drop as fast as a glass cannon in a 1v2 situation no matter what and not survive for at least a little bit.

So essentially an engineer with AR has no “skill” even tho half of winning fights is ensuringyou have a build that fits the style you want to play and the role you are ttrying to fill inside your team. And if someone on the opposing team builds to directly counter that they are OP?
Got it thanks. You guys should work for Anet really

That’s because you either lack of base understanding capabilities or because you understood what you wanted to understand.

nakoda.4213:

sorrow, your view of what “lockdown” means is pretty terribad.

if you are the one locking down and disabling yoru opponent….

THEN YOU ARE DOING YOUR JOB FOR YOUR TEAM.

did you forget about your team?

Lock down while neuting: you forget that area denial is part of your precious meta, so a GOOD far point assaulter will also be capping that point. you team loses nothing because you still have your own home point capped, with the rest of the action forming around mid. or perhaps the enemy will draw back to get you off of their home, freeing up the chaos at mid for a cap.

You need to stop thinking that YOU personally are what makes a team successful.

I dare you to try staying below 25% in a tournament match.

I dare you.

None of you fools have even tried it yet.

If you are locking down an opponent, your opponent is locking down you too on that point.
Do you know what it means? That you’re not helping on mid and you’re not moving to your home point to prevent that enemy guy who split up to cap it. You both are locked on that point.
I don’t know based on which kind of logic only your enemy is locked down but you aren’t.

So, according to you, you won’t ever face a Necromancer 1vs1 on a point in tournament. Yeah, definitely true, if you say so.

Divus.3175:

Sorrow, I’m still waiting for invitation for a duel. I can stream it and put on this thread. Just for everyone to know, why you’re not the one, who should complain about state of the game. Whole thread is about you, whining about stuff you refuse to counter with your build.

Show us real tournament fight, where as ar engi you can really compete.

Nakoda +1

Refuse to counter?
The only counter that has been proposed in this thread is “call a teammate”.

Ronpierce has already posted a footage of a fight against a Necro showing how that trait made the engineer unkillable.
Another guy posted a video in which he was unkillable against a condition mesmer for about 17 second until he healed up.

It makes no sense post another footage. You will always grasp at some straws to prove your point.

HatSimulator.9362:

I just thought it was really funny when i figured out how to do it, sorry to make you all so angry.

Welcome to the Thief forum, HatSimulator, where every topic becomes a “Thief is useless”, “learn to play”, “faceroll faceroll faceroll” thread.

Strangely enough, nobody mentioned how this kitten can be used to hide a mesmer in a keep.

Sepreh.5924:

What would the numbers look like for spectral walk, spectral armor etc

With 1500 healing power, which is pretty much a cap, you get healed for 225hp each time you get hit under spectral effects.

nakoda.4213:

you are amazingly inexperienced with domination game types.

kill someone: 15 sec they are back in the fight.

lock someone down: they are useless to their team.

lock someone down WHILE neuting a point?
- you’ve rendered one of their team ineffective AND crippled their point earning capacity.

This QQ thread exists because of kittens who duel, not kittens who compete.

Your argument is nothing short of brilliant, brilliant as mud.

You only mentioned what is in favor of your argument, as usual.

Kill someone: for 15s you are playing 5vs4

Lock someone down: they are useless to their team, so you are.

Lock someone down while neuting (?) a point? you are ineffective for your team and crippled your team’s poing earning capacity as well.

Please, nakoda, refrain from posting. I’ve already got bored to answer to your flawed arguments. Get back to “compete” sitting under 25% HP taking no conditions at all automagically.

Divus.3175:

About that tourney: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Rock_Paper_Scissors_League
/irony

I need to feed that troll, just bought new food.
If you’re thinking that bunker only outplay bad players then you didn’t ever see good bunkers. Good guardian is unkillable in 1v1 by thief. Good engi without ar is unkillable by power / crit thief. And yet they don’t whine on the forums, that protection is super op (ok, they sometimes do, but pretend they not to, just for proving My point).

Yet bunker can’t kill you, so everything is alright. How many builds can counter good bunker? There’s not many. Teldo is crazy good player, that’s why he outplay bunker guardians. Not because his build is that good. Other builds mostly don’t even start an 1v1 fight with bunker, because it’s just stupid. If you’re not traited for hybrid damage, why should you win with someone, who’s traited for full toughness & full vitality? And any necro traited 30/30/10/0/0 should be able to kill a bunker in 1v1 nowadays. In fight vs ar engi they have to spam marks, which are unblockable (ridiculous), so it can’t be countered by blocks, and after that just use ds#4.

I played more than 1k hours on my necro, so maybe I’ve got enough knowledge to say, only by looking on video, what build someone has, and if he’s playing good. You’re proving nothing here, just whining. Make ar engi and duel me anytime you want.

Read your post.
You made a statement and contraddicted yourself in about 2 sentences later.

Good bunkers are not unkillable. They last more than average builds but they aren’t, by far, unkillable, especially if they met an equally skilled enemy.

If I’m not traited for hybrid damage, but with full conditions I don’t want to kill anyone with full toughness and vitality anyday. I just want to have a chance against him and this chance should rely also on my skill, not only the enemy’s badness.

Also, lol @ the final “I’m better than you” statement, that made you post even more ridiculous as it originally was.

Yeah, Stealth, sure.
Keep thinking that rock, paper and scissor is a competitive game.
Is there any tournament of rock, paper and scissor? Where can I enroll?

Stealth.9324:

Is not that why Bunker role exist? Explain to me why Bunker should not be able to 2v1 or stall for time?

In fact, no bunker is able to stay alive against two, or even one good players.
A bunker is capable to stay alive against people who use their rotation without thinking, realize that the enemy is still alive and then say “omg, this guys is unkillable!11”.

Stealth.9324:

Okie, if he is not dying, why don’t you finish him off with raw dams then as a Condition Builds? With only 4k less left and not heal at all, someone will die eventually, is it not? Using all your condition attacks while AR on is just plain stupid. If he heal, good for you, more and more conditions on you. If he is NOT heal, just beat them down with Raw Dams. Oh please don’t tell me a Necro can not put raw Dams enough to beat 4k less Engine down…

Or, maybe, if you bothered to read the topic you would know that this argument has been debunked multiple times.

Medikit allows to heal the engineer for 1k HP, giving a good amount of health back without going over the 25% hp barrier.

Also, I guess you’ve never played a conditionmancer.
All condition weapons hits with insanely low damage and they don’t scale with power at all (or, if they do, the scaling is unnoticeable). Scepter MH and dagger OH have the infamous record to never hit over 500 damage. The only skill which is capable to hit 1.2k damage is Feast of Corruption but, look at the irony, you need conditions on your target to do so!

They don’t work exactly like Grenade kit which deals also massive amounts of damage other than applying tons of conditions, you know…

jportell.2197:

Give engis passive condi transfers. A MM necro can effectively clear one condition every 2s (5 minions 1 minion every 10s the math is easy.) Please tell me why then with runes of melandru and this trait engis still die in a 1v2/3 against condition classes? Show me one where they are just absolutely unkillable… I beg you. What is funny is the only people that are screaming this needs nerfed are people that play necros (Ronpierce/Sorrow/Karlagrey) and others who don’t main engis have said they have absolutely no problem with it. For instance a warrior that said they run a full melee build that has no problem snaring an engi with this trait. Or condition mancers (you know the ones that have called ronpierce out) that also say they are having no issues.

Then we have the amazing video of RonPierce with this trait (no team utility no, no healing turret, med kit is laughable for group heals, and no larger radius for his bombs so that elixir infused bombs can actually do something for a team.) He dueled a “condition” necro… And the quotation marks are there because this “condition” necro was bleeding him for a whopping 87 per tick. That is def not a rabid or carrion amulet being used. My guess would be a shaman amulet. So this video “duel” was essentially him running around against a terribly built condition necro (I have seen condi mancers with no stacks of corruption doing about 100+per bleed tick easy and my engi with a shaman ammy and nothing in condition damage line does 75 per bleed tick.)

So please tell me more how this video was proof of a trait needing nerfed.

You know why engineer still die when in a 1vs2/3 against condition classes? Because they heal, just like the guy who posted a video a couple of pages ago.

He took no damage at all when AR was on, then he made the incredibly stupid decision to heal back.
The mesmer stacked all the bleeds he had in the meantime, the engineer had no condition removal at all (good idea to bring no condition removal against a condition spec, but whatever) and then he died.

You know why people who are screaming this trait needs to be looked at plays Necros? Guess which profession is completely built to rely on conditions to be effective? I’ll give you an hint. It starts with “Necrom” and ends with “ancer”.
The survivability of this mysterious is tied to conditions (chill, weakness, cripple, blindness, fear), the control is all tied to conditions (fear, immobilized) and damage is tied to conditions (bleed, burning, torment and vulnerability).
Guess why the profession who is more hurt by AR is this unknown one.

Also, I don’t know what would change if the bleeds in the ronpierce video damaged for 140, or even 63746, instead of 87. The engineer still won’t get any damage at all.

Lucas.9162:

I don’t know about Soul Feast. Necros would be OP in situations where LF can be shot up to full, like in Zerg fights and mass mob fights.

With 1000 healing power, the healing is about 500 per dying entity (not including minions, phantasms, pets and all the AI entity that does not generate Life Force). It is less than half the healing of Parastic Bond.

I think anyone agrees that the Blood Magic traitline has not so many traits worth picking and it is definitely underpar compared other traitlines.

It doesn’t offer the sustainability Necromancer needs and it has some serious synergy issues with other traitline (like Soul Reaping, since you can’t heal while in Death Shroud).

I also think that the concept of Vampiric Necromancer is not implemented adequately. I’ve never felt to siphon significant health to my enemies to really make me feel the health siphoning as a real worthwhile mechanic.

So, I want to sum up some ideas I have to put the Blood Magic traitline on par with the others in order to make Blood Magic really something to consider when distributing your trait points.

Full of Life (Adept Minor):
_When you take damage greater than 10% of your maximum health in a single strike, your next attack siphon health. (10s cooldown)
Healing formula: 0.2 (0.3 with Bloodthirst) * Healing Power + 175 (350 with Bloodthirst).
Damage formula: Life steal: 0.033 * Power + 175 (350 with Bloodthirst).

Dagger Mastery (Adept Major)
Dagger skills recharge 20% faster. Move 15% faster while wielding a main hand dagger, move 10% faster while wielding an offhand dagger.
(Merged with Quickening Thirst)

Vampiric Precision (Adept Major)
Same as it is. Increased the amount of health gained to 100 base and 200 with Bloodthirst. Damage remains untouched.

Vampiric Master (Master Major)
Add the following effect:
Whenever a minion dies, you and nearby allies are healed
Healing formula: 0.5 * Healing Power + 750

Deathly Invigoration (Master Major)
Changed the healing formula to: 525 + 0.7 * Healing Power

New trait: Soul Feast: (Grandmaster Major)
Whenever you gain Life Force, you also gain health.
Healing formula: 0.1 * Healing Power * (0.5 * Life Force percentage)

Transfusion (Master Major)
Now also heals the caster while in Death Shroud

Fetid Consumption
Moved to the Death Magic traitline (probably merged with Necromantic Corruption).

New trait: Vampiric Marks (Grandmaster Major)
Marks siphon health and transfer it to you and allies within their radius.
Healing formula: 0.07 (0.1 with Bloodthirst) * Healing Power + 25 (for each enemy affected, up to 5)
Damage formula: 0.15 * Power + 25

Vampiric Rituals (Master Major)
Moved to Master Major

Blood to Power (Grandmaster Minor)
Deal 15% more damage when your health is above 90%

Ideas by Andele:
Aura of the Vampire
Each time you siphon health, nearby allies (600 range) are healed for 50% of the amount
Inscriptions of Pain
Well duration is increased to 10 seconds and apply 1 second of retaliation per pulse.

Also:
Life Siphon (Dagger #2 skill)
Reduced the casting time to 2+1/2s.

Any ideas, suggestion or constructive feedback?

jportell.2197:

A bunker guard can survive against two DPS classes for quite some time and I mean quite some time especially when built/played right so can BM rangers (pet damage got nerfed not the bunkeriness of the build). If two condition classes can’t throw in a hard condition burst right at the start or when they see the engi is almost low it is bad team work and coordination. This trait exists as a hard counter to one build type and that build type is dominating this game mode more than any other (whats funny is other build types such as burst thieves when played right are still amazing). Aoe condition spam is the most mindless skilless thing occurring in this game. An engi running this trait is still not likely to survive long against two condition classes…. Show me a video of an engi just being immortal with this trait in a 1v2 or 3. Maybe then I will think it needs nerfed. I didn’t think it needed nerfed when I never even touched my engi and I wouldn’t think it needs nerfed even if i hadn’t started playing engi again since ANET completey bjorked mesmers. (Don’t see many of those running around anymore!)

You know how much direct damage a condition class is capable to deal?
You can see it in the video ronpierce posted. It’s about 100-200 damage per hit.
As ronpierce showed, you can tank the direct damage of a rabid condition damage profession by just sitting down there and let regeneration do the job for you.

What if the conditions professions were 2?
You don’t need any fantasy to realize what to do. Have regeneration on and drop medikits rythmically and enjoy your unkillable state.

What if the conditions profession were 3?
Use Super Elixir when recharged.

What you guys are failing to understand because of your gigantic bias and broken logic is that potentially permanent invulnerability to whatever thing you want does not belong to any game who wants to be called e-sports. No matter if you have to do three backward somersault, a prayer to the dark lord and a sacrifice of 3 liters of blood to get that invulnerability. It is still broken.

Why?
Because the counter is up to the caster itself, not the enemy.
Once the engineer is good enough to sit in that state indefinitely and outhealing your poor damage there is nothing you can do to counter that as a condition profession. Nothing.
It doesn’t matter how good you are, how you’re timing your interrupts or your dodges. You just can’t kill that engineer and you have to move on, period. This is what is broken.

Has it ever happened in Guild Wars 2? No.

Also, Mesmer unplayable?
Please, keep those jokes out of this topic.

Ralathar.7236:

Because after testing it out for quite awhile it’s incredibly good and has nearly zero downside towards using. By comparison Life Transfer can be a powerful ability but isn’t near as useful if you are not power spec and you can be interrupted. Tainted Shackles isn’t as overtly powerful so I wouldn’t want it to be interrupted and go on cooldown, but at the same time the immobilize is really really strong in WvW and the damage is essentially completely free with it’s cast time.

Whether in a group vs group battle, 1 vs 1, or small havoc squad it’s a really strong ability regardless of your spec.

Nearly zero downside?
It stacks only 3 torment, which is laughable at best, so I think it is not the problem.

Then there is the AoE immobilize and damage, which is, by far, the easiest effect to predict and dodge, second only to the elementalist’s Dragon Tooth.
You don’t only have an huge green spectral bind with the Necromancer yelling “prepare to dodge”, but you can also completely cancel the effect through going out of the skill range.

Zero downsides? I wouldn’t say that.

If you don’t mind AoE torment damage and AoE immobilize, than why you think it should have longer casting time?

Sorry, but to me it makes no sense at all. There are a bunch of skills in this game that has as low casting time and can’t be countered by just going out of range.

Absolutely agree with this! Playing a song and suddently stopping because I miss that sharp key is frustrating.
Also, percussions!

…is the inability to have control over your pets.

Pet mechanic is amazing, I know that, but the lack of control over your pet positioning and their skills makes me look at Ranger as an automated boring profession which is forced to rely on AI.

Have you guys ever proposed to have positional control over your pets, like a circle on where you want your pet to be, and control over every pet skill?

What wins in the game is not build synergy.
What wins in this game is map control and how much you can coordinate splitting up with your team.
Team composition does not matter at all, ever.

There is a video going around these day on the Zoose twitch of a team of only spirit rangers (so a completely imbalanced composition) winning against a balanced team composed of 5 different professions, not even inexperienced players.

There is no such thing as team synergy. When you are in TS coordinating you are just giving information on where the enemies are and when you need to move your individuals. Other than that, the fights are just “I’m going down”, “I’m down” and “I’m ressing you”, “I’m stomping” while you’re fighting with your team, but, in most cases, you are 1vs1. When fights are not 1vs1, then they are only zergfest and mindless spamming of AoEs, skills and combos over a point. There is no such thing as fight coordination. I’ve seen quite a number of streams to say what I’m saying.

The “team based” is just those times when you coordinate your team on how and where to split up and play as individuals, which is, in fact solo-play situations. That’s the point.

Even though an Ele can last quite long against two people. Without his team he’s performing less than optimally. Also if he’s out-witting his opponents, it’s a testament to his skill but it is also a testament to the bad timing that his enemies have.

What you are calling “performing less than optimally” and “bad timing of his enemies” are, still, individuals features.
An Elementalist is not winning because his enemies did not have team synergy while fighting. An Elementalist is winning either because enemy team did not moved enough manforce to that point or because players he’s facing are bad individually, not as a team.

I’ll give you guys another comparison with Guild Wars 1. I don’t know if you guys who are saying Guild Wars 2 is a team based game have ever experienced the GW1 PvP, if you didn’t, watch at some matches on youtube.
In any situations, the fights are either 7v7 (in GvG) or 8v8 in HA. You can see how a whole team effort and synergy takes place to make the enemy lose.
An interrupt from the ranger or the mesmer at the right time can potentially indirectly kill an enemy.
A good AoE placed by an elementalist/necromancer will make enough pressure to make enemy monks to waste more energy than they should.
A well-coordinated spike by the whole team won’t give enough time to the enemies monks to heal back.
A well-timed knockdown by the hammer warrior on the protection monk is significantly increase the chances for someone to die.

The team fight depths were incredibly higher. Each individual should be aware of every move of your teammates to be successful and take actions accordingly. Individual skills are, of course, necessary but they are nothing if the whole team isn’t skilled as well.

Those things don’t exists in Guild Wars 2. A skilled Elementalist is capable to hold off 2+ people with ease changing the outcome of the whole match. You don’t need at all to have your whole team to be as good as you are to be successful. You just need some key elements to be good and you have high chance to win.

Also, I’, not trying to say that Guild Wars 2 being not a team-based game is a bad thing, it is just different. I want to point out that a game that is obviously not team-based should balanced and treated as a not team-based game.

I keep reading around the forums people saying that Guild Wars 2 is a team based game.
Well, in my opinion, it is far to be an 1vs1 game.

I’ll sum up in few points on why I think that, making also comparisons with Guild Wars 1, which is, in my opinion, a true team based game.

Solo play is allowed and encouraged
How many times in PvP you’ve found yourself fighting alone someone holding up a point? I think quite many. There are three points in every map and teams are composed by 5 people. Most maps, also, have a secondary objective which forces at least someone to split out to control it (like Trebuchet or Skyhammer).
5 people can’t control 3 points and secondary objective without being split up most of the time. A true team-based game shouldn’t encourage team splitting that much.

No team-based roles and team synergy
Back in Guild Wars, every profession had a role in a team composition. There was frontline (melee), midline (pressure, support and ranged) and backline (protter, healers and support healers). Those roles were a prerogative in pretty much every team and the lack of one of them hamper the whole team.
If you didn’t have a frontline, you wouldn’t be able to kill a thing. If you didn’t have a midline, frontline would take way too much time to kill and enemy pressure would be out of hand. If you didn’t have a backline, your team wouldn’t survive.
In Guild Wars 2 there aren’t those strict roles. You can live without a bunker as much as you can live without a roamer. Everything fades between all the 5 member of the team which are everything and nothing at the same time.

You can live without your team, you’re an one-man team
In a team based game, without your team you’re good as dead.
In Guild Wars 2, you have all the tools you need to cover the roles of your teammates.
You can have in the same build direct damage, AoE and single target pressure, healing, control and defenses. Obviously you can adjust those aspects depending on the build, but, still, you are capable to cover the role of an entire team in a single build.
Elementalists are a good example of that.

So, at the end of the day, I find pretty obvious that Guild Wars 2, as it is designed, is not a team based game. The fact that you are forced to play in a team in PvP doesn’t mean that the game is designed around team competitions.

jmatb.6307:

At this point after 1400 tournament games and 3 champion class titles I am completely sick of passive benefits from traits and “skills” that give people an advantage by doing nothing but activate or not activate a skill.

I think traits need to be a series of active choices to choose from. More like Improvisation (steal recharges utilities) than Dagger Training (5% damage from daggers).

Signets, Spirits, Minions, and all other set and forget utilities ought to be reworked to be viable only in PvE.

I believe that the person who knows how to position, use active skills, and win through proper use of team work and tactics without riding passive bonuses ought to be the winner.

When two spirit rangers, two aoe spammers, and a guardian dominate matches that is complete garbage. They are not good players – they have strong builds.

I want active traits and utilities for every profession in PvP and all the passive junk put into PvE, where that kind of thing is needed to scale with enemy mobs.

I agree that they should tone down passive bonus from the game, but I absolutely don’t agree on just making them unviable. They should be reworked to be more active and less passive, not just be put in an unviable state and forgotten about.

For instance, they can lower the damage of minions but make their active skills better. Or they can give some sort of micro-management of AI entities, like GW1.

Blood Magic needs a real worthy and build-defining trait.
What about this?

Soul Feast:
You are healed each time you gain Life Force.

The main idea is this. The healing may vary:
- Fixed amount regardless of how much life force you gain
- Dynamic amount scaling with the Life Force gained
- Converts a portion of Life Force into health each time you gain some.

Manuhell.2759:

Or he can upload only the videos where he wins.
People here insisted so much that the video with the engineer dieing was either staged or on purpose, so the opposite can be true too.
Either you trust all of them, or none.

Who said that the video with the engineer dieing was staged?

That video proves our point more than ever. That engineer died only because he made the horrible mistake to heal back when he was at under 25% hp. He could have just sit under 25% HP and extending his 17s of immunity indefinitely.

Don’t waste your time uploading another video, ronpierce.

They will surely say that the enemy team is bad or that the match was staged in a private arena.

Manuhell.2759:

I could say the same about you and your pals, you know.
You’ve been ignoring every single argument we’ve posted here…

I’ve not ignored your arguments. I’ve just tried to say in the whole topic that your arguments were not addressing the issue.

How can you have an argument about politics if you keep talking about music?

nakoda.4213:

it’s a good thing that you have no bias at all.

mew mew!

P.S. yes, you are a waste of time, but hey, it’s saturday morning and i am here to ruin your weekend.

Congratulations, you succeeded with your stupidity to make me lose my will.

I’m wasting my time here.

When people are that biased towards a profession, there is no point to bring up a proper discussion.

nakoda.4213:

no, you fool.

they take healing gear for the stacking of regen from backpack regenrator, healing mist, and for increased heals on super elixir and healing turret.

your arguments seem to be coming from the place engies were in back in feb/march.

when was the last time you played this game?

did you just come back to play your FOTM necro and find out that even though you are OP to everyone else, you still have to work to win?

tool.

furthermore, why the hell SHOULD every profession have abilities that work exactly the same way?

what would be the point of having multiple professions to play?

So, according to your high knowledge of this game, an engineer can’t run with soldier amulet, even if he wants, just because you said that.

The point is, why engineer should have a 100% automated and permanent condition immunity when at under 25% health instead of a player-controlled condition removal like every other profession in this game?

nakoda.4213:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

I can play this game too.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Response

now, if you will not the difference:

endure pain means “take no damage from incoming attacks” for up to 5 seconds, and can actually be activated at will if the endure pain utility is slotted and on the bar.

Defy Pain is like “Self Regulating Defenses” far more than it is like Automated Response.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Self-Regulating_Defenses

ar is protection from the application of new conditions below 25% hp. it does not make you immune to the damage of existing condis, it does not make you immune to any other attacks. only new condis.

a ranger auto attacking an AR engi below 25% hp will kill the engie.

if you are having problems facing an AR engie, your team comp and personal playstyle need to be addressed.

AR does not.

You’re right.
Ronpierce is wrong.
Those kittens are exclusive to engineer, how can he dare to compare it to a similiar immunity trait of warrior?

nakoda.4213:

yep, which brings the engie HP pool up to about 17k, because you aren’t going to be taking full vita gear as a bunker, you will be in power tough healing gear.

Yep, engineers take full healing power gear.
Just to make Elixir-Infused bombs heal for 100hp more?

Manuhell.2759:

It isn’t hard to do…but you hit like a wet noodle. Fine, for a bunker that just has to stay alive. Not fine for someone with a time limit – that is, what you want for the trait.

Did you know that Soldier amulet has power as main stat?

Manuhell.2759:

ronpierce.2760:

Sure, ignore the entire post about Defy Pain and the vast difference.

Sure, ignore the damage capabilities of a warrior traited kitten and the difference between those traits.
Even with AR, you still have to heal conditions or you would die anyway; that means you’ll have to spec in both toughness (to stay alive below 25% hp) and vitality (to have a decent treshhold to stay alive in).
Other builds die too fast, because their effective hp pool below that treshhold is too small to survive.

That immune, instead, would be instant – you can avoid entirely getting blocks and such things. They would just spec into vitality and then into offensive stats – cause there is no need for toughness in that case.

What kind of argument is this?
If you take AR, you have 300 vitality by default.

Also, you makes it looks like picking a Soldier amulet is too hard to do.

nakoda.4213:

because it ISNT 100% immunity.

it USED TO BE, and they changed it.

the “report” in game of “immunity” over the engies head is a BUG, as is the reduction of >100% condies to 0%.

AR was nerfed in the last patch because Anet knew that it would be a hard counter to the new condi meta. the notion that they screwed it up and didn’t do that properly ought not be a surprise to you.

So, what is the difference between “immunity to newly applied conditions” and “conditions applied lasts 0 seconds”?

nakoda.4213:

you didn’t read a thing i said.

I admit it was hard to get something worth reading from that jumble of insults, anger and arrogance.

Yet, I’ve not seen an explanation on why permanent 100% immunity from conditions is balanced in some way, regardless what you have to do to get that.

Keep in mind: I’m not asking you how to deal with AR, just in case you didn’t realized it yet.

nakoda.4213:

no, you have ignored everything.

the SKILL required for AR isn’t from having to push a button, it is from trying to stay BELOW 25% health WHILE staying alive IN THE FACE OF EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT A CONDITION.

Perhaps you have forgotten that there is more to this game than just conditions? June 25 did not change the game to Condition Wars 2, despite popular opinion. You know why?

Because AR counters conditions. And has done so since launch. It hasn’t changed.

The current state of “immunity” is a bug, because the way Grackle describes it of reducing condies with more than 100% duration (ie 133% dura necro bleed ought to drop to 33%) is how is is supposed to work. The skill actually got nerfed in the last patch.

Maybe your butt stings too much still for you to listen to that though?

But you, you ignore the advice of EVERYONE in this thread.

If you are on a team, in a tournament, and you are a necro who is assaulting a bunker engineer who is running AR, AND YOU ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO THROW YOUR BURST DOWN AS YOUR OPENER AND NOT BE SMART AND SAVE IT then that engineer is in a position of frenetic cleansing and healing; only so far as to remain underneath the 25% HP mark.

HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO STAY BELOW 25% HP BEFORE … ON PURPOSE?

Maybe you should, and then come back and discuss this trait.

Regardless, going back to the example WHERE YOU ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO BLOW YOUR LOAD BEFORE THE FUN STARTS, then you ought to be able to tell your team mate who isn’t a condition user to come and burn this engi down.

Or maybe that engi kills you the first time. You tell your team, “hey that bunker engie has AR, come help me neut that point.”

or are you complaining about being beaten up in the playground of hotjoin?

because if that is the case, you are even worse a player than this thread suggests. An engineer with AR in zergjoin will be spending most of her time running away.

This trait involves the a selection process that also cripples the engineer because 30 points in to the alchemy line takes away the actual functionality of the engineer.

Unlike other classes, THE ENGINEER DOES NOT BENEFIT FROM 30/30/10 BUILDS but rather 20/20/30 or 20/20/20/10 with the exception of some builds like HGH-nades … WHICH CANNOT RUN AR BECAUSE HGH AND AR ARE IN THE SAME SLOT.

An AR engie running Elixir Infused Bombs also has zero power, crit, or damage ability other than a few skills meant to put pressure on an attacker.

Have you ever played a bunker? Have you ever fought a bunker before?

What is the role of the bunker? The role of a bunker is to protect a point and not die while doing it.

So if a bunker engi takes AR and you come along tossing out conditions like a loose dog marking territory through an alley, you are going to get your leash yanked and your muzzle smacked like the ill behaved mutt that you are.

She isn’t going to die to your stupid maneuver of beating your condition drugged head against a wall, and she will be victorious, and you will continue to be the scrub who has no ability to adapt or ovecome.

Learn to play this game.

Nice rant, angry kid.
Still, in you forgot to address the main issue everyone here is pointing out: the permanent immunity, regardless how much do you have to invest in.

Why do engineer have 100% immunity to conditions which is, regardless what you think, one of the 2 main types of damage AND control AND snare in this game?
Why don’t they have a condition removals, instead of a stupid nonsense automated immunity?

Why don’t we give 100% permanent direct damage immunity to Warriors when they are under 25% health, then? It would be even less worse, since you can still snare, control (as a Necromancer, fear IS the only CC), reduce their damage output and endurance regen via weakness, reduce their heal effectiveness and pretty much everything you can do with conditions.

Because, guess what, some professions are specificly designed to have their strenght through conditions, damaging and non-damaging ones. Giving 100% immunity to any profession to something which is the only strenght of some profession is a nonsense, regardless which is the setting and what you have to invest to get that.

jportell.2197:

That thread is one guy claiming he hates this trait because “My grenade barrage doesn’t insta kill people!”
Once again it’s not that this trait doesn’t have counter play. It just doesn’t have the counter play that people here want. (My conditions don’t rolfstomp every bunker I come across QQ!)
Melee specs like guards and warrs (one person can attest to it here) do not have a problem thanks to the leaps and movement skills by warriors and well binding blade easily deals with anyone trying to run from a guard. This has turned into three people vehemently claiming something is OP while every other person that has posted in all of these 230+ responses has said the trait is fine.

No man.
You have ignored every point people are trying to make here and pretending everyone says AR is too stupid should be a condi Necro player that want to faceroll everyone.
Well, just read the topic again and you’ll realize that you’re wrong.

Notice which people are doing their best to defend the skill. Then see how many of them have posted in the thread I’ve linked.

It has always been like that when discussing about balance. People biased towards the questioned profession come in mass to defend the skill/trait, bringing the usual poor agruments and fictional drawbacks of the skill.

Medazolam.3058:

So from the looks of it about 2 people in this thread think AR is a problem? not gonna get the dev attention, time to move on, this is a non-issue

Yeah, right.
Just because this thread has been assaulted by a bunch of engineer-biased players it doesn’t mean that only 2 people think it is an issue.

Just look:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Automated-Response-Hate/first#post2450346

It’s like “guys, someone has said that probably AR is too stupid! Let’s assault the thread saying how wrong they are! So devs will think the community does not agree and we can still enjoy our 100% no-brainer immunity-from-conditions trait!”

This is sad, really.

jportell.2197:

Skill-less in that it doesn’t require a button activation to use. Not skill-less in the fact that it was planned for and built around.

You don’t need to build around it. Be serious. You just need to invest 30 points in a traitline you would invest in anyway because of boon duration.

Other than that, this trait is essentialy a free brain-less counter to condition builds. The “brain-less” part is the problem.

jportell.2197:

More importantly is why should conditions builds for all classes be able to dominate the meta without a direct counter? The direct counter to bunker guards is more conditions (they will run out of removal soon enough). The direct counter to eles is good CC and knowing when to interrupt (ether renewal has an LOL cast time)

There are direct counters. Direct counter are called “condition removals”, not 100% condition immunity.

jportell.2197:

You know they have a carrion amulet which adds power to your build which is by the way a direct counter to an AR engineer, this is the same premise that a condition build is the good counter to every other bunker type in the game. (remember how massive amounts of AOE on your feet was the counter to backstab thieves?)

Nobody runs Carrion amulet.
It has really poor synergy with on-crit sigils and traits and, even with carrion amulet, the damage is still insanely poor.

Even if you were able to deal decent direct damage with a condition build, AR remains a terrible and stupid trait balance-wise.

jportell.2197:

Exactly it’s not supposed to offer a chance at a condition build hence the term DIRECT COUNTER. That doesn’t mean there is absolutely no counter to this build when we are at 25% health we are walking a fine line between surviving your condi spam or coming through and getting heartseeker hero’d or knockdown’d/100 brod also apparently an HGH engi can still roll through and hit us with grenade kit which when they are might stacked out the engi will hit us for about 1k with a grenade lob….

What in this game does not offer a chance against what they counter?
Your idea of “direct counter” is nice on a rock-paper-scissor level balance of a game, who has never been competitive. Ever.

Even when you are built around countering something, you don’t completely cancel what you’re countering, you are just lowering its effectiveness. AR does the former.

jportell.2197:

I am the last person to talk about balance? Yay for the personal attacks. I defend mesmers because they lack significant meaningful condition removal while still being useful to their team. Engineers condition removal is right at the bottom with mesmers and warriors. Mesmers being the lowest at countering conditions.

This trait kicks in at 25% health which is meant to give breathing room and allow help to arrive if it is a straight condition damage engineer (they have no healing power or substantial toughness) even the damage from your scepter attacks should burn through him or a good knock down from that flesh golem. And once again this trait has already been adjusted. And you realize that your proposal at removing two conditions every 5 seconds through swapping kits on kitten CD would actually be overpowered when coupled with our healing skill (healing turret).
At least at 25% health we are stuck fighting for our lives while you are likely still at relatively high health with way less conditions on you than use because you can get rid of conditions more reliably than at just 25% health.

You have been defending the OPness of the necro condi spam meta since 6/25. And saying engineers have really good condition removal is equivalent to saying mesmers have which I have actually seen you say in a post. So yeah no sorry.

Yeah, engineers have poor condition removals. Like mesmers and warriors. Every profession you play has poor condition removal, I see.

Are you sure I have been defending the OPness of Necros?

Divus.3175:

Something, what was mentioned in this thread like thousand times: wait with your condi burst for a moment, when engi has about 40% hp. And his dead, because he can’t clear all damage condis with longer duration. If you want to kill a bunker you should go full glass, that is how it’s balanced. If you’re not taking full glass canon, get an ally.

Necro 30/30/10/0/0 should easily kill engi bunker. You can easily get bleed, poison, tornment and burning traited. No bunker engi will cleanse all this condis and remain under 25% hp, because most of his cleansing skills heal him. Fighting ele would still be much harder, because of passive condi cleanse, like cleansing condis on regen apply. Ele is hard to kill, engi is meh for skilled player. If you can’t kill engi, who has no real passive condi cleanse, you’re bad player. That’s your problem. You’ve got several other problems, like refusing learning with help of other skilled players, and lack of ability to discuss on forum.

Yeah, try to do some silly theorycrafting to prove your points.
There are a video in this topic showing how AR is incredibly stupid and how it really hurts condition builds automatically, without the engineer to know what he’s doing.

We are not asking you how to counter AR, in case you didn’t noticed, we are just trying to make you notice how that skill is just stupid balance-wise, which is something you accurately ignored.

Romek.4201:

plz guys

this Zelulose guy( the OP) and Sorow are the only ones writing the same all the time and dont wanna read your answers – i would not wonder when its the same guy

from the beginning ppl told them automated response dont work like they write – but they dont wanna listen they just write their nonsense over and over again

insane what gaming culture has become – someon fail in game and have some serious l2p problems so he goes to the forum and trie to get nerfed something with spamming it over and over again and hope the devs hear it when he spam it often enough

for this thread here the only answer would be: “Nerf the Forum”

thx

What are you talking about, man?
It’s you guys who are spitting always the same sentence to justify a stupid and skill-less trait.

What you guys have to address isn’t why AR should be on the engineer with stupid arguments regarding poor condition removals (which is false, by the way), but why a skill that grants 100% automatic immunity to conditions when under 25% HP should be in a competitive game, which is something none has addressed it yet.

That skill is broken as any extreme trait which doesn’t allow counterplay is. If I run a condition build, I have a chance against any profession. Even against an Elementalist with loads of condition removals. Even against a Necromancer, which cleanses all the conditions and send them back.
That chance does not exists on an AR engineer because it is designed stupidly.

It is automated, it grants 100% immunity and it doesn’t offer any chance to a condition build. Something like that shouldn’t not exists in a “competitive” game.
It’s not my fault if you’re so blind to see how stupid that skill is.

Even that, jportell, you are the last people in this forum I’d like to hear talking about balance. You’ve always been spoilt by the profession you’re currently playing and you really didn’t brought a real counter argument to why that skill exists.
I don’t care how poor condition removals on engineers are (which are not, anyway). If you think they needs better condition removals, then redesign that trait to make something less stupid, like removing 2 conditions every time they switch kit with 5s internal cooldown. Something that doesn’t grant complete immunity, something that is controlled by the player and something that allows counterplay.

ronpierce.2760:

Reanimator (lose the adept minor)

When a minion dies summon a Jagged Horror in it’s place. (Doesn’t effect Jagged Horrors) Decreases the cooldown on minion abilities by 20%.

(Merged New reanimator with Minion Master)

This.
A million times.

It would make two useless traits a balanced, well-designed useful trait.
It even synergizes well with Death Nova, making dying minions deal a significant pressure in PvE.

jportell.2197:

And clearing all my conditions with your heal skill is better? Hey look at that the necro just got healed up and lost all the conditions…
People are getting so hung up on the immunity they are forgetting that it is 25% health. That is not much. A thief can roll through and heartseeker hero the engi to death. Easy Peasy.

Moving the topic to other subject won’t prove your point.

Consume Conditions doesn’t grants you 100% immunity to conditions. Neither heartseeker.

jportell.2197:

Maybe when engis also get all that. They will be okay with everyone else getting a GM trait that makes them immune to conditions at 25% health…. Or you can bring a balanced team comp instead of 5 condition spammers then whining when you come across a low health engi that is getting “IMMUNE” above his head when you roll your face across the keyboard.

Getting immune over your head without even needing to roll your face across the keyboard is even worse.

Manuhell.2759:

The only nonsense here is this thread. People using full condition build whining about the only (grandmaster) trait in the game that directly (and only) counters full condition builds (while requiring heavy specialization itself) and wanting it nerfed. Instead of, you know, simply avoid being so specialized or remember that pvp is played in teams and calling an ally.

No.
Your vision of balance is a nonsense.

If conditions are that rampant to being out of hand, you don’t give full immunity to only one profession, you just nerf conditions to put them to a reasonable spot.

Condition damage is a source of damage as much as direct damage. You can’t talk about “not being specialized” in a game like this that encourages heavy specialization build. The way some professions are designed, the way stats are distributed among jewels… there is no way to not build specialized.

darkchicken.8692:

It is our counter to you. How does a counter’s counter work? We dont have enough cleanses (and still have enough offensive to deal with you) and this is like “the last line of defense”. How do you propose we deal with a full condition spamming necromancer? how does the engineer usually kill you? how do they counter you with AR?

You talk about AR as if we were becoming invulnerable at 25% and less. I know it has been said many time and i dont want to run in a circle with arguments but each of your attacks do have a damage part not related to conditions, even if its low. Its your fault for going all out in one area and expecting to kill everything with it. Its like in dungeon and dragon, you make a mage based about ice and ice only, taking all the feats that make you better at it and then you encounter an ice immune creature. Does the game master tune it down so you can kill it or you adapt and live with your weakness.

Its not like every classes had this particular trait or that every engineer are running AR. How many time do you face an AR engineer? Do they always beat you? How do you deal with engineers usually? do engineers kill you sometime? how?

im not doing sarcasm or trolling, im really asking.

The way AR is designed is plain wrong.
Cleansing formula is a good example of a counter which works how it is supposed to work. Constant condition removals controlled by the engineer, not a stupid automated 100% immunity.

It is not my fault if I go everything in an area. Hybrid builds are complete trash in this game, don’t pretend it isn’t true. If hybrid builds were effectively worth something and if there was an amulet really worthy for hybrid damage, then your point would be right. Unfortunately, that’s not the case.

AR is a stupid trait.
A stupid badly designed counter to conditions.
Conditions should be toned down as much as AR should be completely removed from the game.

darkchicken.8692:

Someone was saying earlier in this thread about “A well played dps should be able to outplay a bunker” which i agree, but what about a well played bunker? How do you know you had the upper hand on that engi? because you dropped him to 25% He made a tailored spec to get there and survive, thats its strenght, thats its grandmaster trait, 30 point into a line just for THAT.

So how do you know you outplayed that engi and you deserve the victory? You know when you outplayed someone when they run for their life or they are dead. If he is still hopping everywhere around, dodge rolling and trying to survive, you dont have the upper hand yet.

So necros, learn to deal with your counter.

But how can you say that you outplay your enemy when you have a trait that grants you automatically 100% immunity to the enemy’s main source of damage?
That isn’t outplaying someone, you’re not taking any skill to get at less than 25% HP and being untouchable.

It isn’t even a counter. A counter is a tool given to someone to be more effective against a specific build. You still need skills and a brain to effectively use your counter.

For instance, Well of Power is a good counter to AoE conditions. It needs to be placed at the right time to lowers the effectiveness of conditions.

Those kind of traits don’t belong to a game which wants to be called e-sport, at all.

jportell.2197:

sorrow.2364:

It has always been the same when people report something OP in this game.
Everyone who plays that profession often find any kind of excuse and fictional “drawback” to make the trait/skill/combo whatever looks not OP.

It happened with Thieves and the backstab combo. People used to say “but.. but thieves are squishy!”
It is happening with Necro and the huge condi burst. People are saying “but… but Necros can be focused easily!”

People should realize that those justifications don’t work at all.

Except in this case a trait which hasn’t been touched or buffed since beta (actually suffered somehwat of a nerf recently) is being called OP. Mainly by people that are playing an extremely OP class or people that are running condition spam builds. This trait was never talked about before condition spam became the meta. Now we see

1. Condi necros (obv)
2. Condi Enginneers/HGH (Obv)
3. Condi thieves (odd but i’ll take it)
4. Condi mesmers (interesting when pulled off right but not the easiest condition class to play)
5. Rangers that When they are in teams run traps/conditions (or spirits but that is a bunker build.
6. Condi warriors (wut?)

Eles and guards don’t have viable condition builds mainly due to lack of being able to reliably dish out AOE condi damage. So when over half of the classes are running a condition spam build it is by no means OP for one build to be a counter to that. When people started griping about how out of hands conditions are the response was “Learn to counter the meta! Build around it!” Now that we have it is being called OP, coincidence? Just because one 25% health trait makes it harder for condition spammers to roll their face across the keyboard and dish out every condition possible to win does not make it OP.

It is a GM trait with a strict requirement and a low margin of error for survival when it kicks in.

Same as above.

Manuhell.2759:

Says the one whining cause he can’t faceroll all the enemies alone in a heavily specialized build and wants a build-defining trait countering that specialized build nerfed.

What is this no-sense?

It has always been the same when people report something OP in this game.
Everyone who plays that profession often find any kind of excuse and fictional “drawback” to make the trait/skill/combo whatever looks not OP.

It happened with Thieves and the backstab combo. People used to say “but.. but thieves are squishy!”
It is happening with Necro and the huge condi burst. People are saying “but… but Necros can be focused easily!”

People should realize that those justifications don’t work at all.

Manuhell.2759:

So the problem isn’t anymore about the balance, just you finding it stupid?
Well, that’s just your opinion, then.

Stupid in terms of balance, obviously.
The example clearly shows what I meant.

Manuhell.2759:

He’s whining about the effect without considering the context, costs and dangers of actively using it. That are the factors that make it balanced.

A stupid skill can’t be made balanced by other factors if it is stupid by itself.

If you have a skill which instantly kills your enemy at 0.1% chance is still a stupid skill, regardless how low is the chance of success.

I like how people ends justifying Automated Response with the current state of Necromancers.

It is not a justification. Necromancers are OP and we all know that, but thit doesn’t mean that Automated Response is a completely stupid trait.

It is pretty much like Moa. It shouldn’t be in the game at all considering how stupid it is.

I also find kinda funny how people are saying that Automated Response is worthless and that they don’t pick it but they still put any efforts to keep it in the game.

OGDeadHead.8326:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Retribution

Retaliation done right.

In fact, that skill was completely useless in any format of GW1.

Manuhell.2759:

The first one is a solution, even if you don’t like it – you fight as a team, not alone. And once you discover who has got that trait, you can simply avoid that player or deal just the starting condi burst and leave the rest to your partner. And it will end rather quickly.
And they can do that only if they have elixir c, basically. Cleansing burst would risk putting you above the treshhold and the other ones heal just single conditions.
And that’s assuming they won’t be forced to go above the treshhold again before that elixir recharges – cause if that happen, they’re definitely dead.
I know, i know: you’ll say “but they will have elixir R to ress themselves”. There are counters for that too, but beside that…whoever uses all those elixirs together without HGH? You would really have no offense at all with a similar setup, and that’s why no one does it – especially since you would still lack a stun break, so you would basically end with no weapons beside that main one (unless you take the elixir gun, but it is more like a support weapon for the party)

Yeah, sounds legit.
Imagine if warriors had Endure Pain on 25% HP and you have only direct damage.
Effective counter? Call a teammate which has condition damage.
This isn’t a rock, paper and scissor game, there should be always a chance to win against any enemy, it’s not that if someone has a single trait you can just forget to win against him.

Velron.3729:

Yes you guys keep saying that, and then suggesting combinations of traits and abilities that are impossible to have all at the same time.

Please make a build on a builder and then explain why the build is OP.

How can’t you realize that?
What is broken and OP is the 100% automatic immunity to some builds which doesn’t rely at all on skills.
It doesn’t matter how good you are with your profession. If you are built around conditions you don’t have any chance against an engineer with automated response, especially if you are a Necromancer.

What is broken OP is the fact that engineers with that trait does not have to outplay a condition build, they just have to wait until they are on less than 25% hp, cleanse and wipe the enemy.

How can something like this be allowed on a game which aspires to become an e-sport?

Manuhell.2759:

Then i’ve already got a good bunch of damage – quite more than the one i’ve dealt to the enemy. And this can happen every time i try attacking with it.

You get a bunch of damage only if you are bad enough to not stop the cast once you realize you’re dying from retal. That’s the punishment because you didn’t cared about the enemy boons.

Also, Flame Jet inflict also burning. You did not dealt less damage than retaliation.

Manuhell.2759:

You don’t need perma retaliation. 5 seconds can be enough to make an engineer kill himself. Also, people may get retaliation while we are attacking, or just some enemy could have it – and you can’t just see every single boon on every enemy to do a single attack.
And so no one even tries to use that autoattack, even if it is supposed to be used versus multiple enemies. We are supposed to stay in that kit for prolonged times if we get the juggernaut trait, yet we can’t even use the autoattack cause it is more harmful for us than the enemies.

You don’t even need to see the boon on your enemy.
You just need to see the huge icon popping on your character’s head and stop casting Flame Jet.

If you can’t use your autoattack, you can still use all of your other skills in the time window retaliation is up.