Guild Wars 2

Well considering mesmer can immediately shatter both f1 and f2 with 3 clones and it pretty much kills it id say mesmer. And if that doesnt quite work mind wrack is on a low cooldown so you can finish it off pretty quick. I think also necro kills it pretty fast.

Gruocs.3412:

spoj.9672:

Ropechef.6192:

Taku.6352:

Ropechef.6192:

Tom Yzf.5872:

Where do we go for casuals anonymous? I’m a super casual who loves pugging as a necro <3

0.o

((hides his 3 Necromancers from the DuNgeeooonLeeetists))))

I really wish necros would have a decent role in PvE. By far my favorite light armor class but there’s just no point using it outside of casual lvl 20 fractal fun runs.

I know right.

I have a full ascended Zojja/Scholar Necromancer with 70 Ar… waiting…. for???

((sobs))

2 Necros. 2 ascended sets for necros (berserker & assassin). All weapons ascended. Kraitkin and howler for necro. And I will be making ascended sinister armour and weapons when that becomes available. Yes I really want necro to become good. :<

Oh boi, you are even worse than I am.
Full berserker ascended, half of the assassins(transfered to mesmer) and all wpns. Incinerator and howler are also there. Necro 4life!

Edit: Got also rabid set of ascended wpns. Forgive me…

You are forgiven. I have a rabid exotic set and an ascended sunless scepter. I was going to turn the rest of the set into rabid ascended if i ever got condi ascended boxes from fractals. But i tend to get rings, nothing or healers and defenders boxes. I will be changing that plan to sinister obviously.

In fairness the last few posts were simply about reaching 100 pages. Unfortunately we didnt actually reach 100 pages. :<

Forever lurking in the shadows.

Ropechef.6192:

Taku.6352:

Ropechef.6192:

Tom Yzf.5872:

Where do we go for casuals anonymous? I’m a super casual who loves pugging as a necro <3

0.o

((hides his 3 Necromancers from the DuNgeeooonLeeetists))))

I really wish necros would have a decent role in PvE. By far my favorite light armor class but there’s just no point using it outside of casual lvl 20 fractal fun runs.

I know right.

I have a full ascended Zojja/Scholar Necromancer with 70 Ar… waiting…. for???

((sobs))

2 Necros. 2 ascended sets for necros (berserker & assassin). All weapons ascended. Kraitkin and howler for necro. And I will be making ascended sinister armour and weapons when that becomes available. Yes I really want necro to become good. :<

Are you running double wells and using path of midnight trait? Thats what i ended up doing while doing silverwastes stuff. Its not ideal as you say. But thats the best aoe you are going to get. Along with warhorn 5. You can also try swapping focus for offhand dagger. But i ended up preferring reapers touch even for large groups and switched back to focus. When i was doing it I was using 1 aoe at a time. So even with the long cooldowns you still have a well or life transfer/tainted shackles for each group.

The trick to surviving is just to watch your positioning and dont tackle large groups on your own unless you know you can win. Also for the teragriffs you can permanently interrupt their rushes by keeping them crippled, chilled or immobilised. Also remember wail of doom and doom are really useful for interrupts.

As much as i like the idea of another blast on ele. Ele already has way too many blasts. Found it quite funny when they kept adding new blasts with every balance patch.

How can you say that about Mirai Nikki theme songs??? :O

Cry of frustration works aswell. Ive managed to kill it with f1+f2. But there may have been some extra damage done unintentionally by teammates.

Leo G.4501:

hybrid.5027:

Leo G.4501:

hybrid.5027:

Here is my response: they should be a drain on their party. They should know that and they should feel somewhat bad about it. They should make an effort to learn best practices and implement them if possible. If they can’t, won’t, or don’t care that’s fine but they shouldn’t have their bad choice reinforced with positivity.

IMO, this is a far more selfish attitude. To me, it’s putting a ‘meta’ (oooh, the naughty word!) before players not because it is what’s best for the group, but what’s best to conform to some strategy…a strategy that might not be best suited for all the players of your team.

Encouraging people to use best practices is selfish? Laughable. For the record, I don’t care what stupid crap pugs do. If I join a pug I do it under the assumption that they will do stupid stuff and fail and I’ll have to carry. I don’t expect them to use the community strategies but when they do its a nice bonus.

To me, the way you worded it said “If you don’t abide by the best practices then you should be punished.”

If that’s not what you meant then you should word your intent better. Why would you want to make people feel bad playing a game? Reward the players that do things right, sure, but punish players that aren’t actively trying to do bad is crossing the line.

Not sure how you interpreted that from what Nike said.

Im being bullied. :<

The hidden arcana instance was gimmicky because most of the fights did not involve any use of class skills. They were simply puzzles to do percentage health damage. Thats boring. It would of been better to use puzzles to make the boss vulnerable to attacks for a short duration. Just like the first boss in that instance.

But yes you could also say things like exploding lupi is gimmicky aswell. But thats a gimmicky tactic. Not a gimmicky encounter.

Oh the resentment.

Well those of us who play with nat on a regular basis have never managed to leech his luck. It seems more like his luck is a result of combining and stealing all of ours.

Ill never forget the se p1 where we were asking him to hurry up and join. He kept saying just a minute. Just as we get to the 3 golems he gets a precursor from the forge. Leeching dungeons while leeching luck.

:<

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Necromancer_Elite_Scar_Pattern_armor
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Necromancer_Scar_Pattern_armor

phoenix.3465:

Some think they are the kings of the dungeon forums and others rally around them to bully everyone into submission…
Besides, what you don’t realize is that ranged can be more rewarding than melee if the gameplay demands it. It is a pity that appearantly the gameplay in dungeons will never be adjusted again however.

Yes its more rewarding if the encounter encourages it. Or if you want a safer/easier approach. That doesnt change the fact that this suggestion was completely flawed to begin with.

I didnt know a large group of people who disagree with something = ganging up and bullying. Maybe theres a good reason for such a large amount of people disagreeing with the suggestion?

Thats only valid for PvP. But then when you factor the cooldowns/cast times of necros boon strip compared the boon abundance and condition cleanse abundance of other classes. Its no longer much of a strength. Its nice when you spike a squishy with loads of boons, but if you cant follow up and finish the kill then its pointless.

Blinds dont work against bosses. And our blind access is on high cool downs anyway. And protection isnt damage avoidance. Im sure you know complete avoidance such as blocks/invulns/evades are vastly superior to protection. Obviously protection is still useful but its not on the same level.

I wouldnt favour it on a guard with no blocks. Less base hp than a necro and no DS. Necro can atleast sponge some projectiles.

The projectile RNG trolling would be hell.

It has nothing to do with the meta. Its how combat in this game favours boon heavy classes with lots of group utility. And necro is pretty much the only class that is the complete opposite to that. Of the 3 selfish classes (Necro, thief, mesmer), both mesmer and thief have specialised utility to help a group (stealth, projectile defence, spammable blasts, portal etc etc).

Also being the only class with no extra methods of damage avoidance certainly doesnt help.

Bring back scar pattern from gw1. Skimpy for both the boys and girls.

Lol the secret is out. Surprised that one has been kept quiet for so long tbh.

Embrace The Bold.7619:

Purple Miku.7032:

How many of you hate this crap as much as I do? I can’t stand it.

I never put any LFG requirements whenever I post anymore other than “no 1-shotting lupicus.” I still have to frequently remind people not to do it, and often times I’m responded with confusion.

Wtf? You don’t want to totally cheese the boss?

In my opinion it’s just as bad to do it as it is to skip Lupicus. People who do it don’t deserve the daily. People who do it on a regular basis are more than likely too terrible to kill him without it.

Ugh, I am sick of being paranoid and frantically trying to keep him immobilised for phase 1 just in case somebody pushes him to the wall and ignores what my LFG said. >_>

And I am disappointed that GWSCR validated this as a legitimate tactic, like… wtf.

It’s so obviously unintended to be able to instantly kill him when phase 2 begins. I don’t have a problem with reflects themselves, but I disagree with anybody that says it’s not exploiting. I get it, “clever use of game mechanics” and loopholes with the rules, but I don’t agree with it being a legitimate tactic. By my own personal definition of what cheating is, this definitely is a good example of it.

Feel the need to rant because even though I posted an LFG saying not to do it, some kittenlord guardian pug still blew him up the second phase 2 started. I am also apparently unethical for trying to kick him for it, and nobody else seconded my vote despite having gone out of my way to prevent it from happening. Lupi wasn’t aggroed on me, so I couldn’t prevent him from being pushed to the wall.

Rage. Quit.

/rant

I’m surprised that GWSCR calls at legit tactic when Snowcrash (anet dev) Has said that it’s an exploit when I showed him brazil’s vid of it :/ Like seriously wtf? It has been what a month+ and they still haven’t fixed it? I know it’s not an easy fix but come on! Pugs ruin everything. Hell I run zerker ele in arah to make sure I can keep lupi off wall.

Its not the first time an anet employee has been ignorant of what constitutes an exploit. Some of them are just as casual and stubborn as the ones we do noble battles against every day on these harsh forums.

Huh? Both methods are rewarding. Not everyone cares about speed.

>.>

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/The-zerker-meta-and-how-to-change-it/page/7#post4581043

Obtena.7952:

Environmental damage on mobs through placing them and controlling their position … as one example. It’s not hard to think of ways to make the damage meta irrelevant in the context of GW2 … or design encounters so there is NO meta; you simply pick the builds optimized for content as necessary when it’s encountered. Heck, even individual mobs could be designed to be susceptible to different kinds of damage or combinations of effects, prompting players to co-ordinate their strategies to finishing content. It’s simply a matter of IF Anet wants to do it.

This in fact, is one of the reasons GW2 appeals to such a wide market … the approach to completing content is very 1 dimensional. I’m not surprised we have a damage meta in this game because it’s very familiar to gamers. I would be surprised if that ever changed.

Thats changing the encounters, not the system. Which is exactly what I said….

For necro ive only witnessed wells working. But then theres no logical reason to bring a scepter or offhand dagger to that fight. I should point out that 3/5 necro wells dont do damage so they do not work.

Staff marks do not work as they do not trigger on objects. You would have to pull an elemental onto them to trigger them. CPC does not work as it has no direct damage.

Plague probably works. But it does such low damage its not worth mentioning.

Havent tested the others.

Leo G.4501:

spoj.9672:

Ironically thats what weve all been saying. The system is fine. The content isnt. D*rp.

Apparently you aren’t reading my post.

I said the content is a problem but you’ll be fighting an uphill battle if the system reinforces what is currently optimal with no drawbacks or competing metas.

That literally does not make any sense. There can only be one meta. You change what it is by changing balance or redesigning content. But whatever changes you make will always lead to single most efficient way to play. Thats simple logic. What you want is other styles to be more effective even though they are already perfectly viable. You want to close the gap between the two sides i guess? Well to do that you alter the content and/or you rebalance the classes. But you keep the core system the same. And doing too much with balance is unfavourable due balance in gw2 being based around PvP. Ferocity nerf was an attempt at closing the gap.

The system doesnt reinforce anything. It allows total freedom. Its the players that force optimal play. Because most players want to run things optimally. If the content was harder then more players would struggle to suceed with the meta in pugs. Which means they would advocate other builds more often in pugs. But there would still be a single meta. So obviously we can deduce that the content needs to be harder and more complex.

Obtena.7952:

spoj.9672:

Now, of your goal is to make the viable builds more effective and wanted in normal play and possibly as an optional fifth member of a dungeon speed run for some viable builds, then I’m all for it.

If this is your goal then I would just like to say that you are going about this in completely the wrong direction. The build, gear and trait system should be left well alone. To make other builds more effective for normal groups you simply need to improve the content. That means increasing the difficulty and creating more complex encounters and mechanics.

Which is something that most of us have been asking for. But for some reason everyone wants to change the system instead. Which will only lead to exclusion because of roles and destruction of certain playstyles. Its not the right solution for this particular game.

I’m not sure what leads you to this conclusion. With little effort, I can think of a reasonable way to make non-meta builds more engaging and not create exclusivity. Other games do it rather well; there is nothing unique about ANet’s approach that excludes them from doing it in GW2. The beautiful part is that most of the mechanics needed to do it are already ingame; Trait resets/gear swapping and dynamic skillbar setups. There are even parts of the game that demonstrate a recognition of how it would be implemented; (The guy you drop lava on in Fractals for instance). It would not be hard for Anet to design encounters where exclusive use of a meta builds would be detrimental if they wanted to do so.

The only barrier here is Anet’s own appetite to encourage people to not use meta builds through content design. I think that appetite doesn’t exist so we are all safe from these ideas. We’ve only seen a dose of that with Teq, and that felt more like an experiment as opposed to a direction they are taking.

Do go on. Whats your method?

Its range is too short for its low damage. It requiring a target is potentially a huge disadvantage. Not being projectile based is an advantage but if you cant hit people when you lose target then its kind of weak. Projectile weapons can atleast be fired once the target is lost.

Ironically thats what weve all been saying. The system is fine. The content isnt. D*rp.

Im a horrible person. Sorry.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

So is this officially the fastest dungeon path?

CM p3 is 2:37.

Good job.

Lol that thread just made my day.

I wouldnt have needed to “bully” you if you had just provided counter arguements instead of avoiding the topic.

Necro was just so good in gw1 because of soul reaping. Best resource management attrib ever. Once you have that you can do anything with it.

Leo G.4501:

Well I do try to be nice and I try to be constructive and I try to garner discussion in as civil a way possible.

It’s not my fault people’s maturity resists civil discussion. And since it’s only a mere suggestion, it’s not like it’s going to harm you or your gameplay in any way. You could have just ignored it and never posted in the thread to begin with.

Or did you want me to take troll bait and blow up at someone for accusing me of not knowing stuff like some hormonal teenager?

I just find it funny how someone can try to make constructive posts yet not actually provide anything of substance. And when called out to counter the arguements given they suddenly make the claim; “Its not my suggestion so I dont need to”. You are defending the suggestion and supporting it (Or atleast aspects of it). So you must have some counters? No?

Ironically you are doing the exact same thing in the thread in the prof balance forum. Making huge posts with absolutely no real substance. You honestly deserve a medal for that skill. Then again theres quite a few people in that thread who were doing the same.

xD

Thats even worse. Are you trying to destroy group buffing?

Now, of your goal is to make the viable builds more effective and wanted in normal play and possibly as an optional fifth member of a dungeon speed run for some viable builds, then I’m all for it.

If this is your goal then I would just like to say that you are going about this in completely the wrong direction. The build, gear and trait system should be left well alone. To make other builds more effective for normal groups you simply need to improve the content. That means increasing the difficulty and creating more complex encounters and mechanics.

Which is something that most of us have been asking for. But for some reason everyone wants to change the system instead. Which will only lead to exclusion because of roles and destruction of certain playstyles. Its not the right solution for this particular game.

Not equal in their damage output, but equal in their ability to get to the end of a challenge at with similar levels of difficulty.

This doesnt make sense. If the damage output is different then the ability to complete the content should vary in completion time. And if more support/defence is taken then the difficulty should be diminished. This is currently how it already works.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

Jerus.4350:

Dramen Maidria.1034:

No Pulse.2967:

Why is it an exploit when you place a reflect skill at the source of the attack instead of where it’s supposed to hit? What is unintended about reflect damage scaling with enemy power?

You’re not really putting it at the source though, you are putting it at a specific point in the terrain to create a result the developers clearly didn’t intend. For that reason alone its an exploit, just not an official one.

It also isn’t about the damage scaling with his power, its about how this special place allows the damage to bypass his phase mechanics where he should go invulnerable.

What may happen is WoR will get the same treatment as feedback and only reflect X projectiles.

Wasn’t that exact same argument used for the FGS issue.

“you’re clearly using the terrain in unintended ways making it an exploit”

And as far as phase skipping, didn’t we see that again with the FGS 7s kill someone did by timing it with his animations to prevent him from changing mid rush or something like that? Or isn’t it similar to doing a large attack right before 50% on Brie?

Again, I hate the trick, but I don’t see any solid arguments why it is an exploit but some of the other things int he past aren’t or lets talk current and that new way of centralizing damage on those IB4s and what not?

And FGS was changed to remove that use, it just took them too long to get around to it, but Anet has been historically slow with things like that all the way back to GW1. Exploit has more than one definition, which is why I separated this from Anet’s official definition that can get you banned. No one creates content with effects like this as part of their design, but the more complicated the system they work in the more ways it can happen. This is why a dungeon team is necessary, they correct these things quickly instead of what we end up with, people getting used to using broken mechanics then getting upset when they are suddenly changed after 6 months or more when they should have been changed within a week.

FGS wasnt changed because it was an exploit. It was changed because it was op and overused. Pretty sure they nerfed it because of PvP and WvW anyway. Nothing to do with PvE. It worked as intended. They just never expected players to use it in that way. Thats an oversight which led to unintended use. But its far from an exploit.

Unless you are considering it an exploit in terms of manipulating mechanics in a completely legitimate way. But labelling it like that causes misunderstandings. Because thats the same as when you exploit AI such as LoSing, stunlocking, or interrupting known attacks. They can all be considered exploitation of some sort. Yet they are all completely intended/valid tactics.

TL;DR
Dont use the word exploit for anything other than obvious bannable offenses.

I wont deny the balancing of combos is pretty bad. But to say the system isnt great i think is unfair. Its a really cool dynamic to combat and teamwork. The problem is projectile finishers are unreliable and weak. And as you say some fields arent all that useful. Dark, ethereal and ice fields have ok effects but they just dont have a valued place anywhere. Exception being dark field against Jade Maw.

Im well aware of that. Seeing as he understands me now Ill just leave it there (ill let the faulty logic accusation slide). Besides i only kept going with this thread because i was bored.

We all know even anet arent stupid enough to make such a drastic change. And there really isnt any other solution other than new content. Which is the same thing weve been saying to people who want passive defence to be more useful.

Disappointed in that music d*rpy. >.>

Nicely done. No phalanx this time?

Let me explain why 1 or 2 people ranging causes problems. And it should not be encouraged by making them recieve buffs while away from the team.

Ill use lupi as an example. If you have 5 people in melee they share buffs can help each other out when someone downs. And lupi’s aggro is shared on everyone in the same area. He doesnt move around and cause problems.

When people start to do a mix and range him. It causes huge problems for the melee players. Anyone who has pugged and tried to melee while others range will know this. Basically lupi will start shadowstep around the room. He will kite the melees and this will causes bubbles and barrages on the melees when he switches targets. Or if he stays aggroed on them (best case scenario) he will only be a threat to those in melee. If that melee person messes up and downs. Then his ranging buddies are in no position to help him.

Now if we implement your suggestion. What we end up having is an incentive for players to range and cause these sorts of problems. And generally speaking they wont recieve any of the disadvantages unless the party as a whole is overwhelmed. If it is not overwhelmed they get to achieve max damage with almost complete safety while the others have multiple times the difficulty compared to if the group stayed together. This doesnt mean stacking. This just means staying in a reasonable distance from each other.

So currently the boon sharing radius does two things. It encourages people to stick close to each other to share buffs. And it also encourages them to work and stay together to support each other. If you remove the radius, you lose that incentive for teamwork. You basically encourage players to go off and do their own selfish thing because they dont need to join the group to get their buffs. Do you understand what im saying?

One of the great things about gw2 combat is the combo field system. You devalue that system if the radius is infinite.

Its funny. But i understand some people dont like it as it trivialises the fight.

Maybe if you watched some records you would understand. Or if you knew the very basic requirements of an optimised group and what each class brings.

Well im completely lost now. Please do go on. The way i see it. If you want to dps from max range with complete safety then you should stack buffs at that range. Otherwise you are just simplifying the content and making teamwork far too easy. Especially for the people ranging. If you dont stack buffs then you do less damage but you are safe. Completely fair trade.