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To be fair, if our Duelists would cause it not only would we get really sick of the noise, so would everyone else.
But that’s the whole point of having the quip on a thief or eng. The player on the other side of the world will have no choice but to use their hands to cover their ears instead of their keyboard and mouse. Effectively allowing you to kill them easier.
Congrats, now when you produce a clone it will have a confetti effect when it first spawn to let the world know that its a clone by saying “Tata!” as though the clone just popped out of a magical box. This effect also works when you produce a clone under water.
My belief is that they should add a footstep trail depending on the terrain that you’re fighting on. So when someone that is in stealth walk over a puddle of water for example, you’d see ripples. Something like this would make perfect sense, and it’d be a good counter to stealth.
I assume you mean this http://pastebin.com/dmACCzwx
I absolutely don’t hope that these are the patch notes, although history have told us it’s more than likely to be true. It’s mostly nerfs, with some minor buffs in areas that don’t really matter whilst not addressing any of those things that truly matter.
If these are the patch notes, we all might as well re-roll as clearly they have no intention of fixing the bugs that plague the class or address those issues that keep us out of the meta. We’ve been waiting for eight months or so, and this is what we’d get? Just depressing, plainly depressing…
That is massive nerf to clone on death builds. Its much more sever than what they proposed previously with no new clones being generated with Deceptive evasion. With that change, no conditions will be applied by a clone when it is replaced by any illusions. Given thieves have a very strong condi removal with shadows embrace, you will no longer be able to kill a good thief without either using a GS or a focus to stop them from resetting the battle with Shadow Refuge.
You’re not going to get high dps with the staff. The staff serve other purposes like
- aoe dazing/interrupting a group of mobs while stacking,
- applying vulnerability on them in the process,
- giving your team aegis so they can continue to attack for longer without needing time to recover.
- gives you another level of kiting ability when your other team members are down and needs to recover
- chaos storm + bountiful interrupt trait + chaos armor (if you’re decently tanky) + signet of inspiration works great for sharing boons with your team.
Well, with thieves having shadows embrace trait that clears conditions on stealth + they can tag mes clones for free stealths, its pretty kitten the Mesmer…. especially a condi mes.
Actually came across a shatter mes earlier in the day that played very similarly to Vash from what I’ve seen of his videos, sword/torch + GS. But that mes lacked a lot of the burst dmg that Vash’s build had. Really need to be close to full zerker to be effective i’m guessing. He chased me for a long time trying to kill me but wasn’t doing enough dmg to threaten. The shatterer technics are there though, form triangle for quick bursts, shatter to interrupt heal etc.
If anet want to make mantras more viable they should add stability to the Protected Mantra trait.
In any case, mantras can be fun to play, but you’ll find it tough going if you’re using so many of them as your utilities. My opinion is you’d need more than just 2 stealths as escapes.
Speaking of thieves, I think I ran into some perm stealth thief with high toughness today. Must have ran into him like over 10 times. Me trailing him for about 30 min earlier in the day must have kittened him off so we both tried to kill each other after that. Even though we both ran into each other so much none of us managed to down each other. Every time I manage to get his hp down to 30% he just stealths runs away. The longest interval between stealths seem to be less than 5s. So made it really hard to land or chain anything.
Any one of you come across thieves like that that you just can’t seem to down?
The fact is the scepter #1 AA is only useful when combined with the clone death traits to any build other than shatter. Take away that and scepter #1 does a Condition or Phantasm Mesmer no good at all.
And once again if you actually look at the dissipation traits in practice (by testing on a moving target golem for instance) you’ll quickly see how lackluster they really are.
That’s like saying the sword does no dmg in a condition build. You’re looking at it the wrong way.
Not really. Sword #1 AA with clones generated is a boon stripping / Vulnerability machine. Useful in any build. The clones also are melee so they follow the target, keeping the target in range of any ‘clone death’ traits. This becomes really handy if running a ‘clone death’ condition build.
The scepter #1 AA applies no buffs or debuffs on it’s own. The clones do 0 damage and likewise apply no buffs or debuffs on their own. The clones are also ranged so will not follow the target until it’s at it’s max. This puts them out of range of most ‘clone death’ traits when overwritten anyway. They become only shatter fodder, and in a build with no Power or shatter traits the only shatter that is potentially damage dealing is Cry of Frustration. And of course no shatter traits are taken in a Condition or Phantasm build.
If they de-couple the clone death traits from scepter #1 they take away the only thing it contributes to any build other than shatter.
Just talking about scepter skill #1 Auto-Attack here remember.
You actually think sword mainhand has dps in a condition build even with the clone on dead traits? And you’d take a sword over scepter even for a condition build in pve? The confusion and torment dmg from the scepter will easily out dmg a sword in a condition build with clone on death, even in pve. And the boon strips and vuln debuffs from the sword doesn’t exactly do much for a condition build unless the enemy has regen. That debuff and boon strip combination from sword clones only shines over a scepter clone when theres someone else there to do the main dmg for you.
And no the scepter AA clones aren’t always out range of the enemy escpecially in pve because the enemy AI is dumb. As you kite around in circles free scepter AA clones at random locations + dodges work quite well in pve actually. It scales better when there’s are a larger number of enemies around.
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The fact is the scepter #1 AA is only useful when combined with the clone death traits to any build other than shatter. Take away that and scepter #1 does a Condition or Phantasm Mesmer no good at all.
And once again if you actually look at the dissipation traits in practice (by testing on a moving target golem for instance) you’ll quickly see how lackluster they really are.
That’s like saying the sword does no dmg in a condition build. You’re looking at it the wrong way.
The sword is definitely more useful than the scepter in pve in the sense that you have an evade, teleport and a lot of aoe damage in melee when safe to do so. But the scepter isn’t bad either if you’re consistently landing the torment and confusion attack. In a group, if traited, the scepter 1 gives you free clones that can also apply weakness on an enemy group from a safe distance to facilitate your groups stacking ability. But the scepter is a lot more single target than the sword and thus will take longer to kill mobs in general. The scepter clone is however problematic in that it stays stationary, unlike the sword clone that chases after the target. Since it is stationary, the scepter clone has a lower potential for condition application on the enemy when compared to the sword clone.
There are some fights where I prefer the sword and there are fights where I prefer the scepter. I swap in and out scepter and sword for main hand and sword and pistol for offhand all the time. Fights like lyssa and fire shaman I definitely find using the scepter to be easier. Fights like ulgoth, foul bear, eye of zhaitan events I prefer the sword. I’m talking about solo and small group runs here. If theres a zerg there it really doesn’t matter what you use you’ll find it easy.
I’ve also ran all the dungeons and fractals up to lv 50 with both weapons on multiple occations. My opinion is both sword and scepter are not bad. The play style’s different that’s all.
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Same thing can be said about the clone-death-builds that utilize at least Debilitating Dissipation in pve. While it is true just about no one runs it in pve but if u do run it it works very well. People often underestimate just how useful that random 3 stacks of bleeding and weakness is on clone death is while kiting 10+ enemies on the battle ground in pve. However, despite this, the dps side of DD is still fairly low as others have pointed out in other threads. So its a bit puzzling as to why it’s being targested and used as an excuse for wanting to change Deceptive Evasion.
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PVE content is so easy it doesnt matter what you bring…
Yeah that’s why some people need ambers to solo champs. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Consumables-Nerf
since crit scales over power even crit was lower…
It was balanced so.As i ll have to repeat forever post patch mixing pieces with different stats will outshine celestial in anyway (food or not)
*Celestial will become UNVIABLE for ANY build.
No further argument should be discussed*
Its making an already weak set into something totally useless.
Celestial never needed a nerf (prove me wrong if you can…people were asking for celestial buffs already).Not to mention that changing stats on something requiring 1000 gold is a bad choice.
What should i do with a 1000G+ SOUBOUND set that becomes unusable with my build?Grind other 6 months? (would you do that?)
I don t get how people seems to be happy to see other player fun ruined…you don t gain anything from it but lower population.I don’t know. You seem to be ignoring all of the nerf celestial posts </sarcasm>
Try again
Show me a single build in wich celestial will be viable post patch…..
Or else we should assume your purpose is not balance….Sorry, I was joking. No one has EVER complained that celestial gear was OP. Many people argued that it wasn’t even viable pre-patch.
Ppl did in the way of making ppl able to still out put high dmg and still had a lot of ability to stay alive. Only a few classes used full celestial gear most just use the major parts. The GEAR and weapons had better crit dmg on it then zerk etc.. the trinkets where often not used because they had less crit dmg then zerk.
If you did not use it before and do not want to use it after that is up to the person that is what you call horizontal progression and there are other gear sets out there that ppl would often say was worthless like givers armor and trinkets. But to sit there and look at the set that give + to all and say its ok for it to give high crit dmg then gear that made for crit dmg is just out-right wrong.
I run a fair amount of celestial gear on my wvw elementalist. I can say for certain that I don’t do very good damage until I get about 10-16 stacks of might. Before that I hit like a wet noodle.
Well ya its should not be doing good dmg its a gen set it should not be good at any one thing. What ppl are using though is running celestial armor and weapons to get the high crit then running zerker trinkes to make up for the lost of power and precision.
That is just stupid. If you have 15 stacks of might and you’re not doing good dmg then there is something wrong with your build regardless of what armor set you use. Even a tank build should do good dmg with 15 stacks of might.
You don’t need a visual indicator at all. simply don’t proc DD on DE dodge. Which ever clone is due to disappear because of that dodge simply won’t proc the DD. Or you are suggesting we have a timer on top of each clone’s head to let the world know if DD will proc for the CD implementation? Don’t see why an indicator is necessary.
Debilitating Dissipation needs nerf?
No, but DE makes those traits do things the devs might not have intended, mainly the ability to dodge2condition.
Since the traits are weak enough as is, they’re considering nerfing DE.
I know you like to make this seem like an issue with DE, but there are plenty of ways to rectify the condi spam problem without even touching DE, which benefits every other build we have more than not. Eg. Add an ICD to Debilitating Dissipation. Problem solved.
If a CD is added to debilitating dissipation then to make up for it all 3 conditions should be applied at the same time. Otherwise a CD for debilitating dissipation is extremely bad idea. The amount of condi dmg and dmg mitigation from trait is really good for pve. But of course zerker players will have no idea because they will die anyway if they get hit.
The best solution that I’ve read so far is simply not have clones proc debilitating dissipation on a DE proc. A CD on Debilitating dissipation is an extremely bad idea if u want to encourage build diversity.
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If u want boon support take a look at chaos maestro build. Then modify it for more dps but keeping the concept the same. The concept works quite well in pve.
As to weather you will be one shotted why don’t you actually try it. People on the forum have no idea because most of them run zerker builds.
In the end it is you who actually need to put in the effort to experiment different builds and concepts if u want to find the right build for yourself. If u can dodge and avoid all the mob dmg and not die 95% of the time then go full zerker for more dmg. If not then go with something more defense oriented. There is no point in going zerker if u keep on dying, your dps drop to 0 when you’re dead.
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I don’t know about you, but I personally find doing world events with a large zerg incredibly boring so I usually try to run them with as few people as possible. Maybe that’s why I feel condi build dmg is ok? I personally like to run the temples events with 2-8 people for example. The mobs and boss die “reasonably” ok to me when using a condi build. And i’d argue that if theres a zerg at the event that is big enough to reach the condi cap it probably won’t matter what I do, that is the boss dying within the time limit.
The bigger problem for condi build that is way worse than worrying about your dmg contribution in a zerg led world event imo is actually dmg to structures. This poses the biggest problem for condi builds because there are world events where you are required to destroy certain structures within a set amount of time. As structures do not take in condi dmg it can take a very long time to destroy on your own.
Dungeon wise I pretty much run every one of them. Again I don’t feel that the amount of dmg output is unreasonable. Again the mobs die “reasonably” fast. It is certainly not as bad as you are making it out to be. On my way to fractals lv 50, not surprisingly I was the only Mesmer out of those that I’ve come across that used the scepter. Out of all the times that I’ve ran fractals after the fractured update, there was only 1 person during the lv 30s that moaned about “the group not having enough dps”.
On another note, for a condi Mesmer in dungeons:
1) can apply condition on mobs for longer such as weakness
2) won’t roll over when the wind happens to blow in their direction.
3) soak up a fair bit of mob dmg for the group via the use of chaos storm and chaos armor without actually downing much.
4) chances are you will be the one running around rezzing everyone because you can actually stay up for longer.
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yes never mind the torment dmg or any confusion spikes or any physical dmg that a condi build can still lay on top of the bleeding.
To have iswordsman hit at 8k per hit you’d be sacrificing plenty in defense. Full zerker is not the only way to play even in pve. Even if we suppose the figures that you ran above were true (they are not), what makes you think killing enemies at 1/2 the maximum speed possible will automatically make it non-viable? That is simply a very narrow minded view.
If your condition build can do 100+ bleeding sticks for 7-8 seconds, 10+ stacks of bleeding when having 2 duelist out at lv 80. I really don’t see what the issue is. And there will be direct dmg on top of all of this.
When I go to solo fireshaman in full condi build the speed at which he dies feels fairly reasonable.
Making a legendary weapon for Mesmer is like going to vote in an election. You have 3 major parties. 1) Staff 2) Greatsword 3) Others.
Just make the weapon that you think you will use the most. I personally went with staff.
but if your not 100% dps your not doing it right… gotta be straight up glass cannon or your a liability to your group.. at least thats how most groups see it… good luck getting a group with scepter or staff… people hate condition damage in pve with a passion.. and for good reason… it sucks..
What is more a liability are those that constantly get down when they miss a F4 or dodge when the wind blows in their direction. There’s nothing more annoying than to see a player get down constantly and others will then 1) stop their attacks and 2) need to run in to rez risking a domino effect. Not everyone will be able to run zerker gear because 1) they may not have the greatest reaction in the world 2) they may not have 10ms ping time to the server. There is no point insisting the OP run a zerker spec if its not suitable for him. The OP should try a wide range of builds to maximize his dps output while being able to minimize his down time. It’s being the last man standing and getting the job done within a reasonable amount of time that counts.
Condition dmg builds has a place in pve just as power builds. I dare say some people just don’t know how to play one. On my way to fractals 50 I was the only Mesmer with a scepter. Everyone else was running GS + x. Its just really sad to see when condition dmg does just fine.
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This is getting silly. Why don’t you lot challenge those PU users that thrashed you to a duel and dare them to switch the PU trait to something else? Chances are you’ll still get thrashed.
Its pretty silly from both sides really.
Whilst these runes probably does deserve a nerf for pvp’s sakes due to certainly classes’s certain abilities to be able to abuse it when it doesn’t have a cool down. But its equally silly to call for the confusion on interrupt feature to have more than 10 cooldown. If you can’t handle 5 stacks of confusion every 10 seconds it is probably time for you to rethink your build. After this, if you want to argue that certain classes can still stack alot of confusion, then perhaps it is those classes thats op, not the runes themselves. So nerf those classes and not the runes.
These runes are the best thing that could happen for condition builds in PVE. It gave them an extra source of damage that is scaleable to multiple enemies (aoe interrupts). If they nerf it too much some condition builds for some classes become really dull again.
Imo, if anet is to implement a nerf, at most it should be 10s cooldown PER TARGET and they should fix the confusion durations on these runes. This would be the perfect balance for these runes for both pve and pvp imo.
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If u want to test survivability for your build in Orr go and fight the champ south east of “Sheltered Gate Waypoint” where the skill point is. Once you can solo that then go and fight the champ east of “Caer Shadowfrain Waypoint”. The latter one is harder as it and the trash mobs around it uses interrupts.
And yes, the trash mobs around these champs will try to get in your way mid fight as they respawn. But they are not overwhelming to the point where you get hit none stop.
Fighting these champs will let you learn whether you have enough escape options and when and how to avoid burst damage that the champs throw at you at intervals. It also will let you know that if you do get hit does your build have a way to recover (e.g. invis, heal).
Once you can solo these then you’re set for pve.
For lower level testing, you can try soloing the Ulgoth chain event in Harahi Hinterlands , foul bear chain event in Fields of Ruin, and the Fire Shaman chain event in Iron Marshes.
For the iWarden true they do give more bleeds overall if the mobs don’t move about too much. But before this patch what the iduelist offered was additional confusion spikes via ethereal combo fields that landed about the 10k mark when it gets to 20 stacks for a condition build. Before the patch, you could easily get to this amount of stacking with 2 duelist and the scepter.
Iwarlocks on the other hand only performs best in a physical attack build where others are applying the various conditions for you.
It definitely wasn’t that effective in pvp or wvw ’cos people tend to dodge after the first 2 or 3 duelist hits land. But it was very good in pve where mobs will welcome your combos with open arms.
The pistol trait is actually more in line with the other traits now. The focus trait is a bit of an anomaly in its strength.
Confusion burst damage is a misnomer. Confusion damage is directly related to the actions of your opponent. Putting 25 stacks of confusion onto a target guarantees the exact same damage as 2 stacks: 0. In PvP you do have a chance for your opponent to panic and spam skills to kill themselves, but PvE mobs don’t panic. By attempting to use the pistol finisher to confusion stack in PvE basically means you’re limiting the sum total of your damage to 3 skills all on 30+ second recharges to produce a shaky potential burst maybe. Not good.
The confusion is bonus on top of other damage though. So you get good base damage from bleeding and physical damage then you have confusion spikes on top. Its true that PvE mobs don’t panic, but they are also not as smart as other players. That is they do attack regularly on some timed interval regardless of the situation. If you stretch your confusion duration a bit (i.e food), a good amount of confusion damage will land (before the ‘nerf’) on pretty much 99% of the pve enemies in my experience.
I just think it was an unnecessary fix. And i believe the only reason why they suddenly fix it. Is because of the uproar caused by perplexity runes
I think they should at the very least increase the % by a fair amount like to 50% when traited becuase 20% is really bad. Now it’ll just give an extra 1 or 2 stacks.
Channeled skills are a skill type that activate over a period of time. These skills can be spotted by a yellow activation bar that fills when the skill is activated.
Wrong. Channeled attacks are attacks that deal multiple hits of damage over a period of time, while continually channeling them.
Hmm, appologies for the incorrect statement there. Looks like I misunderstood what it’s suppose to be despite “consulting” the ‘wiki’ before hand, because that is what it said word for word.
Either way, I think pistol trait now falls way behind in benefits gained compared to the focus when traited. I was testing it after the patch just then, its effectively 40-50% nerf for me interms of confusion burst damage.
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Channeled skills are a skill type that activate over a period of time. These skills can be spotted by a yellow activation bar that fills when the skill is activated.
Mirror blade is channeled and is a physical projectile attack. has 100% chance to cause 1 stack of confusion after going through ethereal field.
nope magic bullet have 100% chance of inflicting confusion after going through an ethereal field despite it being a physical projectile attack. Are you saying this is a bug?
No nerf fo Mes = good patch.
the duelist was a massive nerf. confusion no longer viable in pve AGAIN. thanks anet.
That’s true, but we ALL knew and used Duelist Discipline on purpose because we saw that it bugged out combo finisher chances.
It’s on the nerf/fix thin line, but let’s face it: we knew that would have come, one day or the latter.
How do you know it was bugged and not the case that they forgot to add the description? The increase 300 attack distance when traited is mediocre compared to the reflect gained by focus skills when traited. Only by having substantially higher combo finisher chances will it then be on par with the focus in terms of gain from selecting the trait.
Considering the 100% combo finisher chance ‘feature’ had remained for so long when traited, i’d wager that it is the case they did not include the increase combo finisher chance in the description.
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No nerf fo Mes = good patch.
the duelist was a massive nerf. confusion no longer viable in pve AGAIN. thanks anet.
It never was.
It was good with perplexity. 11k damage on risen with duelist if u time it right.
No nerf fo Mes = good patch.
the duelist was a massive nerf. confusion no longer viable in pve AGAIN. thanks anet.
and it was more than 5 prepatch also
Though its not a mesmer change, the change to centaur runes is helpful since mesmers need to use it more than most other classes.
Now fix the rune of altruism plz. Same problem as rune of centaur before this fix.
Since the rune of centaur cooldown is fixed in the lastest patch (07/24/2013) can we please get a fix on this rune of altruism as well?
The cooldown on might and fury on heal should be 10 seconds not 15.
Bifrost and Bolt for me.
Thanks Kylia, Pyro and Chaos. The Chaos Maestro build gave me a few ideas. Mesmerized podcast has been good to listen to.
Also it’s sad that Seven Mirror left the game.
My server is up against Kylia’s server atm. I’m on Eredon Terrace. I’ve been on wvw a few times since the match up started last week, but haven’t come across kylia yet. Kylia, when are you usually on?
It’s really stupid. Focus pull gets 1 second nerf. I don’t see any thieves having 1 second cooldown when they come out of stealth before they can land a blow on their enemy.
I think this just about confirms it, the gw2 development team all roll thieves.
Btw guys, just noticed that if I trait for the staff, the bleeding duration from chaos wind decreases from 7s to 5s. Anyone of you got this?
For the Mesmer, just noticed that if I trait for the staff to have -20% Cooldown the bleeding condition on chaos wind decreases from 7s to 5s.
Anyone else get this?
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That’s all well and good. But now actually try to kill something in wvw. You will have no chance against any decent player. Unlike pve where the AI is dumb and enemies don’t regenerate health, other players in wvw actually have a brain. You will now be better at running away than before though, congratz.
I’m running this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNArfWl0zKqXVTqGb9IipH9GyBcoUgdZXJF42FC-jExAZvioxWzKiGryGTDTEVDA-w
Tiny: http://tinyurl.com/ohnnvmk
Good survival — can make some good escapes.
I may move the 10 points out of “illusionary elasticity” since it’s not utilized by scepter/torch. I haven’t decided. I was using scepter/pistol but the torch prestige is too much fun.
EDIT: This build isn’t fine-tuned for scepter/torch and staff. All my gear is based upon a different build — I was just messing around tonight and was really enjoying PU. I’m going to work on it over the next week. If anyone comes up with some cool variations, please share.
Prismatic Understanding provided good survivability before the patch, u just never tested it before now until u saw the trait in the patch notes. And now decoy and phase retreat has longer cooldown due to IC change means you’re in stealth less often and is more susceptible to damage when you’re out of stealth.
I think it’s a bit dramatic to say that Mesmers are in an unplayable sorry state (which I’m not sure if you were actually saying that or affirming this post was not about that). But, both of the builds I run in PVP and PVE were not affected by anything they changed. One in fact, was made stronger with the change to Prismatic Understanding. The other can now perhaps even make use of the buff to interruptions and benefits from the izerker fix.
I get your point, but I don’t think ANET is trying to force you into anything. Honestly, IC was in a relatively low slot for the power it gave. Isn’t this just another chance to diversify the builds and express more versatility by creating new ones with the other traits they changed? I guess I don’t see how they “jeopardized that vision of versatility” when they simply are allowing us to create new builds with these new changes.
That’s stupid. If you actually think prismatic understanding is buffered a lot it just goes to show that you didn’t test different builds before the patch. Making random boon (out of 3) proc twice as often doesn’t change the core play style of PU build much. It’s a slightly better troll build than before, but your dps output is still abysmal compared to phantasm build or shatter build.
I get your point, but I don’t think ANET is trying to force you into anything. Honestly, IC was in a relatively low slot for the power it gave. Isn’t this just another chance to diversify the builds and express more versatility by creating new ones with the other traits they changed? I guess I don’t see how they “jeopardized that vision of versatility” when they simply are allowing us to create new builds with these new changes.
Sounds to me like you’ve never actually tried to test the different builds before the patch. All the patch did was to make some of the old builds less viable by giving a lot skills a higher cooldown time.
only shatter viable = reroll to different class. there will be more shatter mesmer, but overall less mesmer. hope you enjoy it..
You know I’m confident I’ll be able to hold my ground as a phantasm mesmer in PvP despite these nerfs and in PvE your efficiency really doesn’t matter cause you’ll only be there to provide boons to the zerker warriors.
Prismatic Understanding was buffed.
Sorry for my noobness but how PU was buffed. How is it different now?
I’m using it and can’t understand which it means in the patch notes. ThanksInstead of just getting a boon upon stealth, you get a boon every second while stealthed, that is how I’ve read it atleast, not that I use the trait myself tho.
PU used to be boon every 2 seconds. It is now buffered to every 1 second that all. While a torch build with pristmatic understanding is a fun troll build for both pve and wvw the dps output is kitten as compared to phantasm or shatter build.