Guild Wars 2

Dawdler.8521:

testpig.5018:

Allowing them, no. Your confusing PPT with upgrades.

A dominating server can have all the PPT by capturing everything in the current system, and they can spend their time and money upgrading it. And the underpop server can actually counter those upgrades by killing yaks and flipping camps.

In the new proposed system, the dominating server is having all the PPT by caputing everything, and not spending any time or effort having to defend camps or escort yaks, because all the objectives are upgrading regardless if a yak reaches the objective or not.

Yeah I get what you are saying, the question is do they kill all the dollys?

By your logic, no server would ever reach T1 let alone T3 with the current system because the enemy would constantly kill dollys and flip camps. The “underdog can completely counter” scenario is a myth that doesnt happen. You can only delay it… Which incidently is exactly what the new system does as well.

yes they do kill yaks. Heck on reset nights, i make my guild do exactly that on our server in the enemy BL.. snipe yaks all day. Not only does it deny the castles/towers to be upgraded, making them weaker and easier for our troops to eventually penetrate them, it also denies supply to build up siege.

When you kill enough yaks, it forces the enemy players(at least in the current system) that NEED those yaks to upgrade their objectives, to start sending troops to the yaks.

So now not only do you have open field fights around the yaks, but your also making the enemy force spread it’s zerg out and around to defend all the yaks. Now instead of the blob you have to deal with.. it’s many small battles you have to win.

With the enemy blob spread out, your lesser population server now has a window to take a non-upgraded objective right for the enemies hands.

Allowing them, no. Your confusing PPT with upgrades.

A dominating server can have all the PPT by capturing everything in the current system, and they can spend their time and money upgrading it. And the underpop server can actually counter those upgrades by killing yaks and flipping camps.

In the new proposed system, the dominating server is having all the PPT by caputing everything, and not spending any time or effort having to defend camps or escort yaks, because all the objectives are upgrading regardless if a yak reaches the objective or not.

They will always lose in the PPT.. however they don’t need to be destroyed to the point that they won’t even enter WvW because everything is always upgraded against them.

There are solutions for the outmanned server to have siege damage bonus/reduction when the outmanned buff is up. but Anet.

The new system, will not allow a low pop server or ANY server to counter an objective from upgraded. And thats the problem. Slowing down an upgrade is meaningless, if it’s still going to upgrade regardless of how many yaks i try to stop.

in the current meta, if a server is totally dominating a map(lets say your BL) your server can still small man yaks and supply camps, and still manage to never allow those keeps/towers to be upgraded.

In the new system, you can’t even do that. So it will be that much more PvD for the under pop server, having to PvD fully upgraded objectives without the man power.

It’s making weaker pop weaker.

exactly, the new system removes the need/value for camps and yaks.

Thats why the link in my signature gives a perfect solution, making yaks an event, needed for the keep/tower to be upgraded..

Get 10 yaks into a tower.. it upgrades. bam. simple.

kill the yaks.. no upgrades.
defend the yaks.. upgrades.
simple

could always wish and dream to bring relics(orbs) back

i hope a Anet is surfing no this holiday

The auto upgrade option isn’t the problem.. it’s the auto upgrade without the option to deny the upgrade… and that the upgrade is “Free”. you don’t have to do anything for it, and it WILL happen. Thats the problem

your post seems to seem you are a small scale havoc group that roams around flipping camps, killing yaks, and finding fights.

The new proposed system kills your group. Because Camps are not important, because Yaks are not important. There is no reason to defend a yak, as the tower/keep is going upgrade regardless of your efforts around those supply camps/yaks.

So what is left for your havoc group to do? where will your fights be located? if the enemy doesn’t need to leave it’s keep to get an upgrade going.. that they can just remain indoors.. all day.

The game starts to lean towards zerg on zerg fights.. that the only way you can take those fully upgraded.. fully turtled objectives is to zerg it.

buh-bye havoc group/

it tends to create a lot of lag.

but it indeed would be cool.

Warhammer Online did it, and you could actually have tank walls holding choke points.

Yea they need to make objectives worth more PPT per upgrade level. And the reward for taking an objective should increase per level of that objective. so if it’s a fully upgraded keep.. then i want a nice increased chance for ascended drops.

But with all that said.. dolyaks should still be the most important means in upgrading any objective.

Svarty.8019:

testpig.5018:

So your small man group, that could currently kill yaks, and choke supply from the keep/tower to deny it from being upgraded

This sounds great in theory but in nigh on three years of gameplay, I’ve yet to see it happen.

this makes me wonder how you and your server WvW.. The first thing we do when the enemy takes a keep.. or a tower, is make sure it has no supply getting into it. The first thing we do when we capture a keep or tower.. is make sure supply IS getting into it. Which means escort and protect yaks.

the problem isn’t the auto upgrades.. the problem is the auto upgrade without a prerequisite. “just waiting” should not be the requirement for a keep/tower to be upgraded. It should not be a TIME thing.

The Dolyaks should be the most important thing for a keep to be upgraded. The simple, weak, slow moving dolyak. A keep/tower should have a requirement of X dolly’s reaching the keep for it to upgrade. Allowing players to STOP an upgrade. Just like how we can currently STOP an upgrade by draining a keeps supply.

Images make things that much easier to understand… And everyone from PvE would have such an easy way to understand what they have to do. No more worrying about random upgrades or anything.. It’s just

“Escort yaks”…
“Great i can do that”..
“how many do i need to do? 7 more? great i’m on it!”

And a new PvE’er is now apart of the WvW world with ease.

Please Anet, don’t turn into WARHAMMER ONLINE with the changes you are proposing. Did you guys end up hiring Paul Barnett or Carrie Grosskous ?

If they indeed do the system proposed in the WvW blog, this can very much help with how useless dolyaks are becoming.

The glory of the current system is that the small man group, can take a supply camp, and actually make a difference to the enemy.

You can actually Siege a castle, stopping/draining their supply, to deny them from getting upgrades.

With the new proposed mechanic, you can’t do anything.

With that Svarty, the large population server that owns your corner, won’t need to worry about getting Dolyaks into the keeps in order to have it get fully upgraded on you.

So your small man group, that could currently kill yaks, and choke supply from the keep/tower to deny it from being upgraded, won’t have the ability to counter the enemy keep in your zone from being upgraded.

You will wake up every day, with each objective fully upgraded by the enemy servers in your BL.

The game mechanic your proposing doesn’t solve for the overall problem of making dolyaks and supply camps useless in the bigger picture. the small scale combat that those objectives provide for the player(of lesser populated servers) is a major benefit to choking a keep out of it’s resources.

Solution thread
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/The-PERFECT-simple-solution-to-Auto-Upgrade/first#post5090756

It does seem like Anet throwing out the baby with the bathwater on this.. just like how they got rid of Orbs/Relics simply because hackers were breaking the mechanic.

Passive upgrade system removes the importance for half the objectives in WvW.

Having 2 supply caches might be a good idea, but can also cause it’s own confusion(one players can access for siege, the other for core upgrades).

I like the idea of having an event for the upgrade that says something along the lines of…
An event that the keep has, that it needs 20 dolyaks to enter to upgrade. And you see a little bar showing “number of dolyaks that made it in, and the number needed for the upgrade to finish”. (view attached image).

This simple change allows players to know exactly what they have to do, to get the upgrade going.. They need to defend the dolyaks.

And while yes dolyaks will have to passively make their way to the keep, and yes they don’t need to be escorted.. its still a system that allows the opposing faction to choke resources from the keep in the siege. It still promotes and creates a mechanic for players to LEAVE the keep to ACTIVELY DEFEND important objectives.

And with the new sentry buffs for dolyak speed, you will have players HELPING the dolyaks reach the keep more so then ever before.

The keep/towers would still get supply from the yak for building defense (repair) and such.

An easier solution, without ruining the entire strategic value of the supply camp, and the dolyak.

feels like this game just took a turn in the direction of WARHAMMER online..

careful Anet.. careful

Having a dolyak delivery number would be nice for the upgrade system.

like:
Each tier requires 20 yaks to make it the keep for upgrade. Making yaks mega important to escort.

If the keep doesn’t get the 20th yak.. then it’s a no go on the upgrades.. someone needs to go out, and escort that yak(that has a new buff because it’s being escorted by a player.. and it also can get movement speed buffs from sentry point NPCs). and bring it home.

YAK LIVES SHOULD MATTER!

The upgrade is going to happen regardless if yaks reach the keep or not. The only thing yaks would do is.. if the keep takes 40 mins to upgrade.. or 35 mins if a yak made it in.

The new upgrade system automatically causes upgrades to happen over time.. While having dolyaks reduce the overall time it takes.

This system has it’s pros and cons.. But mostly mainly cons.

The strong balance of the current mechanic on live, forces the players to take an active part in defending their supply camps. Making it so players have to actually leave the defensive structure, to get the supply camps under their control in order to get the upgrades going on their castle/tower.

With the new system, it promotes turtling. Just staying in the castle/tower, and not needing to worry about escorting a yak. Yaks are just perks.. not an actual need.

This is bad.

Yaks/supply camps should be the backbone for WvW. Not just a WvW feature we can easily ignore.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Passive-Upgrade-System-DISCUSS/page/4#post5114353

don’t allow golems to port anymore.

don’t allow golems to use mesmer portals.

Put Collision Detection on golems with other golems, so you can’t stack a billion in 1 spot. This would force golems to have a limited number attacking the gates.

Your night is my day, my night is your day…

my points should not be worth less then your points.

Outmanned buff should work on keep walls/doors/npcs. giving them damage reduction when outmanned is up.

if the commander dies.. and release.. i always tag up to the same color of the commanders dot, to keep the flow of battle going.

Players are affected if they are fighting and the blue dot that was with the,m is no longer there.. heck, even if i’m commanding and die, i don’t release.. i rather the blue dot be in the heart of the fight instead of back ay the waypoint

bring back the chest being able to be opened up by all toons that reach it.

Attach the Sanctum back to EB

Put sentry’s and capture points in the Sanctum.

Add supply depo to the Sanctum.

Add underground towers deep within the jumping puzzle, and have a backdoor into Stone mist at the end of it protected by a mighty door.

getting rid of white swords.
getting rid of waypoints in keeps.
the return of Orbs/Relics
more WvW abilities.
2 New Classes
2 New Races.
Tomes of Knowledge for sale for Gems(not to costly tho…) Maybe 5 Tomes for 100 gems?

i loved white swords.

the return of white swords has just made WvW feel as if my small man team can;t do much anymore without a zerg ball showing up instantly

simple solution for many of this.

change orbs powers..

-Orbs double the point generation of the objective it is held in.
-Orbs can be placed in keeps or towers
-Keep / Tower lord must die for the Orb to be dropped.
-Because of the power strain of the Orbs. Each orb beyond 1 hinders your realm. Keep Doors/walls take 10% more damage per extra orb. (so if a realm controls all 3 orbs, they take an extra 20% damage to their structures.. making it harder to defend when you control the to many orbs)

“Most significant threats…..”

Thats the glory of the Sneak attack system. It has allowed everyone to be considered a significant threat.

1 player.. threat.
2 players.. threat.
3 players.. threat.

Before a threat was only 2fg +. And even then, they would not engage on a keep, because they would just get way pointed on and not have the time to take down the objective before massed on.

Now.. 2 simple roamers, can drop a guild catapult on a wall.. and take down an unscouted tower or keep.

Whose fault is that? Arena net for allowing 2 players to be able to build a ram, stand there pound a wall, and fight the lord for 5 mins while dealing with respawns…. or

the entire server that refused to roam and scout their keeps/towers because they don’t “know” where the enemy is because they don’t have “white swords” to tell them?

does PPK actually help zergs?

how are points tallied?

is 1 person only worth 1 point? or is it worth 1 point for everyone that damaged the player?

If PPK is only worth 1 point per person. Then the lower pop can earn more from it then a blob.

your primetime is not someone else’s primetime. Nothing wrong with night capping.

Ultimaistanza.4793:

No, it’s still the problem of the sneak attack. This test has needlessly taken away resources of scouts. It’s made the already tiresome act of scouting more annoying while not giving more benefits for scouts. The reduced amount of interest in scouting is not something at fault of a server or individuals, it lies with the flawed way ANet has designed WvW and it’s rewards.

So are you defining a Scout as 1 person standing at the waypoint waiting for white swords to appear? That doesn’t seem like “scouting” at all to me at all.

Sneak attack has put true scouting back into the game. Players now actually have to patrol and roam to make sure hidden siege isn’t making waste to their objectives.

And in patrolling and roaming you will find those fights.

Those that patrol will find the fights of those trying to sneak attack objectives. Those that don’t patrol will have an objective taken, and now they know exactly where the enemy is, and can fight for their land back.

What is the problem here? If you don’t want to find a fight, you can que for sPvP

msalakka.4653:

Yes. Even less upgrading or defending. Lost t3 crag to 3 guys. Nobody gave a kitten. The commander continued his wxp adventure retaking the other tower. Oh well. ANet clearly doesn’t play their own game.

So it’s not the sneak attack feature that is the problem. It appears to be nobody caring.

And when the blob shows up…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqdWOjWE960 you farm them.

Don’t you know the objective of the game is to capture objectives to generate points?

Don’t you know when you capture an enemy objective they will try to take it back?

Insert Battle here.

The ability to deposit player supply into keeps and towers would be awesome.

perhaps the extra guards for yaks.. should provide a protective bubble of buffs for the yak.

Aegis. Protection. Regen. on a 2s auto cast timer

And those buffs remain unless the guards escorting them are defeated.

I always felt that guard upgrade buff was useless, and only a means to stop the NPC spawns in EB and hindering the yak.. but never hindered any player.

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

work on low populated server, but for blob server, they never mind if there are sword or not, they just blob what they want, it is not a solution for balancing server population but only fight mechanics (scouting, more superior siege and organized small groups)

The sneak attack is not the solution to the server population balance. Because blob servers will always blob the non populated server. But the low pop server has a chance now to take an objective from the blob server. With white swords, that was a very very small chance to happen.

However do keep in mind, i think it should be a guild buff to “sound the alarms(white swords)”

sneak attack is not PvD at all.

It’s take an objective deep in the enemy zone, and use it as a offensive structure against enemy players and enemy structures.

If you are out patrolling the the BLs, you will find the fight, instead of waiting for white swords to appear to have a fight handed to you.

The mindset of zerg infested servers have polluted tactical combat in guild wars. Sneak attack is fantastic in promoting healthy fights.

small minds think in small ways.

If you are defending your objectives. Then you would see it being attacked.

I love it.

Being part of borlis Pass, and having a current drop in WvW population. This Sneak Attack Feature has allowed us to take many objectives from the high pop servers.

And being that we don’t have the population to protect anything anyway, anything we lose we were gonna lose no matter what. So it’s all good there too.

However, i would suggest refining this feature. Always have sneak attack active forever, but, guilds can have a buff just like +5 supply, or +magic find etc, called “Sound the alarms”. Any objective that is Claimed by a guild, and that guild has “Sound the alarms” running, it will then show White swords on the objective, and give a message over "/T chat “A Guard has been killed at Briar Tower in <Borderlands>”

Next, if a guild has an objective claimed and no buff running for 60 seconds, that claim on the objective is released.

-Have upgraded structures worth more Points when capped. (so a paper tower is worth only 5PTs when capped.. a fully upgraded tower is worth like 40PTs when capped.
-Have upgraded structures worth more Points per upgrade.(paper tower ticks 1PPT, fully uppgraded ticks like 15PPT)
-Have structures generate coin/influence for each upgrade running on a claimed objective. (if my guild has objective claimed with 5 buffs running on it, we get like 5 silver and like 50 inf per tick)
-Have claimed objectives NPCs represented by the Guilds tag

Allow for an option that when siege is placed.. after it’s built. another player or the same player, can convert the siege item to another item siege item. (for the cost of that siege item + any extra supply needed).

So if a player drops a siege Ram on top of the wall.. another player can walk over to it, use it, and use the convert ability, and change it to an arrow cart. It can’t be converted for another 3 mins, and also the cool down to convert another item can’t be used for another 3 mins.

So with that, 1 troll, can’t out convert siege, and the proper siege would end up in placed based on population

i don’t craft at all. so i can’t even convert these things into something else.

It’s sell loot i can’t sell.

i don’t craft, and these things are taking up slots in my inventory.. please let me sell them to merchants or sell them to players, or turn it into anything other then something that fills up my slots

you will never be able to solve for one side having more players online then the other side. because you can’t force players to play at all times.

Population will always be an issue. one army will always have more numbers then the other army.

The logical solution to not make any player vs player interaction imbalanced is to change the static structures present in every single WvW map the variable that changes. Siege is that static structure.. Keeps/towers are that static structure. Those are the variables we can tweaks based on population to try to bring the uneven fight more in lines to an even fight.

The outmanned buff(with my concept) only makes it stronger when it comes to siege battles.

Jim Hunter.6821:

50% less damage from a blob that can just PvD down the doors isn’t going to stop them. What it will do however is make it harder to back cap your stuff if the blob leaves behind a couple scouts in a keep and hops to another map.

I held another servers paper hills 1v30ish for about half an hour with siege disablers. and a couple ac’s. I lost it after WvW shut down for an update and they beat me back to it. With +50% power on siege and siege disablers a small havok group could hold a keep against just about anything except a massive zerg.

it won’t stop them. it will give the outmanned players defending a chase to stop them/slow them down. so that they won’t have to back cap.

Yes, a small havoc group when outmanned can actually try to defend and hold an objective. And while they are outmanned they will be at a somewhat balanced fight with them using the keep and the siege to defend.

However, once the the population evens out.. then the fight evens out as well.

see how it works?