Also: thread lock in 3, 2, 1…? This discussion isn’t at all productive and the OP probably isn’t going to show their face again – though hopefully they’ve learned that the vast majority of macro accusations are just well-learned skill combos, and while a small number of folks will cheat with macroes, they’re definitely not the biggest problem PvP has right now.
The biggest pvp problem now is the balance team of Anet…..
You can use a macro software to “read” the chat log and react to a skill with another skill.
No. That’s not a macro, that’s a screenreader. Some other issues with this argument:
- it will react slower to the majority of telegraphed attacks than a player who is paying attention, since it won’t be able to see the casting animations
- it doesn’t address the super-fast-casting of skills that all your previous posts insist on
- srsly it has nothing to do with the discussion why did you even bring it up? It reeks of grasping at straws and logical fallacies.
Open your eyes , your are really blind, macros are a problems in this game, macros are third party program, third party programs are illegal, something illegal is BANNABLE period.
Btw : You DONT need a screen reader to “read” a screen.
Well of Corruption+Well of Suffering+Mark of Blood+Chilblains+Reaper’s Mark+Putrid Mark
In that case, either you can’t count to 1, there were multiple necroes, you were lagging, or they had somehow gotten a hack working that told the server they were casting skills faster than they should have been.
EDIT: oh, or you weren’t paying attention and they’d precast the three marks, in which case the two wells and Chilblains could all be cast in less than 2s and you could be excused for some hyperbole.
They were most definitely not using a macro, which would be regularly affected by all cast/aftercast times because it’s just a sequence of instructions, nothing more. A cheaty way to execute a set of commands with flawless timing every time, yes, but still not at all capable of doing what you describe.
You can use a macro software to “read” the chat log and react to a skill with another skill.
it is funny when a necro with macro cast all of their wells/aoe skills on your group in 1 sec, and you die…..
all wells have 0.25 cast time, you can equip 3, and only 2 wells do dmg, staff aoes are 0.75 sec cast time. You dont need macro for that, only class that really benefits from macros is elementalist thats about it.
he cast ALL of them on us in 1 sec.
Well of Corruption+Well of Suffering+Mark of Blood+Chilblains+Reaper’s Mark+Putrid Mark
you CANT use 5+ skills in less than 1 sec manually dude.
In less than 1 second? Then they’re somehow bypassing cast times, and it’s not a macro that’s the problem – they’re cheating the combat system entirely, rather than using a helper program to execute a scripted combination of keypresses.
It’s still possible to hit 5+ skills in less than 1 second if they’re all instant-cast, of course – but this takes practice and usually a mouse with several buttons mapped to skills.
the internal “cast” cd between skill is 0.25 secs, with a macro you can cast 5 skills in 1 sec, always.
macros are considered third party program, and could be a reason to ban a player,, some macros are so kittening fast that can cast more than 1 skill at same time.
you CANT use 5+ skills in less than 1 sec manually dude.
I’m actually pretty sure that’s possible. At least 5 in 1 second. And you don’t even need more than that in any build tho.
The OP is probably not used to decent guys who are able to execute simple burst combos.
Perhaps, if you are good, but you cant do it perfect 100% , a macro player only need to push 1 button to make a perfect combo always, on my country this is called CHEAT.
If you play a condi/bunker/regen ranger against a good thief he will never die, he will reset fight til he have the upper hand, and will kill you ( or you will flee).
Depends, a lot of people like to post their condi roaming videos, and they like to highlight killing thieves in them. But you’re preaching to the choir here, I don’t like the slow kill speed.
If you are playing a zerker ranger, and kill a thief, well…..is a bad thief or you did a unexpected burst.
Isn’t that the point? If you expected an attack to land, you’d just dodge it instead.
For example, the other day I ran in to an absolutely excellent thief. I always take sminkiottone.6972’s advice and just scare thieves off (or as you pointed out, kill the bad ones.) This guy was really good and he kept engaging and resetting the fight when I chased him off after a nerve wracking fight on both our parts. Finally I got him using the Muddy Terrain anticipatory move I suggested in my first post. The guy was well practiced, but unfortunately all that practice made his final backstab attempt too predictable. He didn’t expect it, and my attacks landed.
But it is unfair that due to the lack of balance of stealth the only way to kill a stealth thief is to make random and/or blinds attacks, you cant balance classes around THIS stealth mechanic.
Yea there will always be “pro’s” telling you how things should be/ l2p. However, 1 clever forum edit does not change a proff’s mechanics unfortunately.
Totally agree with you. The fact that so many people in this thread are giving constructive advice as to how to beat thieves should tell everyone the guy that said it’s impossible to beat them should have written what I edited his post to. He needs to read this advice himself and practice fighting thieves rather than being so defeatist. They’re really not that difficult.
If you play a condi/bunker/regen ranger against a good thief he will never die, he will reset fight til he have the upper hand, and will kill you ( or you will flee).
If you are playing a zerker ranger, and kill a thief, well…..is a bad thief or you did a unexpected burst.
Not this again…
Most of the players that get accused of using a macro, only practiced build combos to get them into muscle memory to be able to execute them properly when needed. Just because you can’t press 5 or 6 keys in quick succession, doesn’t mean others are as ‘ditidi’ as you.
If you don’t put any effort in mastering the build you are running…well then don’t be suprised when you get pooped upon by someone who spent hours and hours mastering their build.
Get Good
you CANT use 5+ skills in less than 1 sec manually dude.
The fix for pet attacks against moving targets is already in the game. When you fire a ranged attack, you don’t shoot at where your target is. You shoot at where your target will be by the time your arrow/spell reaches them. The game automatically takes care of leading your target.
Sry but the only bow “lead” attack in the game is the arrow from thief Sb AA, if you opponent move you will miss more than 50% of your arrows with LB.
If a LB ranger can kill you ONLY with autoattack is a L2P issue………
another one of those totally unnecessary comments
if u would bother reading the comments through i said that we had a friggin zerg on us while the ranger was shooting at us. i made this post coz i couldnt believe a ranger was dealing 10 k dmg w AA
To be able to hit you always for 8k+ you should be wearing lvl 1 gear…….
wow. 8 crits. just wow.
int. sigil – 3 crit 5 sec cd
arcana – 5 crit 40 sec cd
war/engi/ele can have good uptime for this sigil.
let’s take war as an ex.
every 5 sec swap – 3 crit. in 40 sec you make 24 crits
arcana – 5 crit in 40 sec
24 crits sigil >>>>>>> 5 crits UTILITY SLOT SPELL
sigil better x8 than utility spell.
lolwut? devs, are you kidding?
At least you can have that +5 crit, i play ranger xDD
BTW , in GW2 , The warrior is a bad example to compare skills, we know that Warriors are Anet preferred class.
“Ranger Design Philosophy: Please keep this in mind when posting feedback.
The Ranger is a resilient profession that excels at skirmishing by drawing from nature to support themselves as well as their allies. Alongside their pet, they have some of the best single target and sustained damage that will whittle their opponents down.” – From the developer post in Collaborative Development: Ranger Profession
… I can’t stop laughing…
We have 100Arrows , Explosive arrow and Kill arrow, Oh wait…..
any class can use them, only 3 can get the utility they provide. This it IS class related, and not a “global” effect.
An engie, ele, necro, thief or mesmer CAN NOT get the shout effect. It is 100% Guard, warrior and ranger only.
And given the short CD of guard (12 secs when traited) along with the regen, you actually, along with maybe a sigil of generosity or purity you can keep conditions in check.
I am not saying rangers couldn’t use some more active cleanses, i am saying we got many options to use. Who cares if they are specific to the profession or not. You take what you have at your disposal and make due with it.
We got less cleanses that all other classes xDDD, but yes, we can “bear” with condis.
Shouts are limited to Warrior guard and ranger. NO OTHER CLASS has them. So it is pretty much a class skill/utility since it is NOT a game wide “type of skills” but a restricted type of skills.
But you need a rune, any class can use runes , you cant cleanse conditions only with your owns shouts.
I don’t feel like the class sucks at all, despite what a lot of people say. I have an 80 of every class and have played them all very thoroughly in tPvP. The one thing I can say about the ranger is that, while other classes have nearly infinite combinations of skills and traits to tweak and perfect depending on your playstyle, the ranger class is extremely one-dimensional and grandmaster traits force us into playstyles rather than what we would do with other classes and build a playstyle around a grandmaster or two. For example: Bark Skin is for added survivability, Empathetic Bond is Condi removal (this is about as in-depth as you can get when combining it with different pets, but in the end it doesn’t make much of a difference), Signet of the Beastmaster is a heavy investment in order to gain stability that isn’t on a 120s CD, and while I’d love to have a shout build for regen and swiftness to support my allies outside of spirits, but unfortunately our shouts are more commands and not instantaneous like every other class, and more often than not you need that condi removed with Soldier’s Runes right then and there, but rather have to anticipate having a condition on you in the first place.
Please though, I feel like there’s much more to the ranger that I’m not seeing. Enlighten me if I’m wrong.
Rangers trait lines are probably the worst of all classes, you need to invest 30 always……….
That’s an issue that has to be addressed, yes. But I don’t want to be dependent on an AI if I haven’t chosen to.
Well, that’s easy. Don’t play the profession whose defining mechanic is an animal companion. It was your choice to make.
You must try the class to see that the Pet AI is broken, i tried the class in beta , rangers had a nice damage + nice skills coef , i decided to make a ranger in the Release, but ,Do you know what?? they NERFED the ranger in the Release, a nice nerf to damage + Broken AI = Broken class.
Beastmastery III: Hunter’s Call – Using a shout reveals up to 3 foes within 600 and shout skill recharge time is reduced by 20%. (renamed Shout Mastery)
Thank you for reading!
While I do agree that we need more revealing options, your suggestion could turn out too powerful. You reveal people up to 3 times, which is already huge. Furthermore it was been suggested multiple times, me included, that RaO and HaO should be turned into shouts. You would be able to reveal an enemy up to 5 times, which would be all their stealth they have.
Anyways, if the devs lower the damage of the pet in order to give us our damage, the pet has to be more centered around providing support. Revealing enemies would be such a support the pet could offer.
Beastmastery III: Hunter’s Call – Using a shout reveals up to 3 foes within 600 and shout skill recharge time is reduced by 20%. (renamed Shout Mastery) 15 sec cd
Ok the class mechanic of a class is not just whats on the f4 buttons, its the things/mechanics the class has that others dont.
theif = steal/iniative/stealth skills
these things are considered in every facet of theif. you cannot play a thief at all without considering iniative, and no other class has iniative.
If Stealth is part of the the thief class mechanic, how come three other classes have access to it? It’s as much the class mechanic as traps are the rangers.
Stealth doesnt have a counter -> Thieves can spam stealth -> profit.
Stealth is countered by AoE, engineers can utilise stealth. Engineers can also spam ‘block’ does that make block their class mechanic? Guardians have numerous sources of Swift, is Swift their class mechanic? Rangers can spam evades, are evades the ranger class mechanic?
F skills are the class mechanic.
is Mug Thieves mechanic ??……….
Anet have a hard time with thieves because initiative system is too powerful in the actual game environment.
Permastowing Pets
This suggestion goes in line with my previous suggestions, which I will sum up shortly:
Shift the damagemodel from Ranger: 70%, Pet: 30% to Ranger: 100%, Pet: Additional damage (10%)
I disagree here. 100% + 10% = 110% not 100%. We shouldn’t be asking to be balanced around doing 110% of what other classes do, but 100%; anything more is just asking to be op.
Perma-stow / Aspects / A utility only pet that gives the damage back to the ranger when equipped all seem like reasonable suggestions I have heard that give 100% of the damage back to the ranger.
all classes have his own damage (100%) + mechanic.
Stealth doesnt have a counter -> Thieves can spam stealth -> profit.
Stealth does have a counter, or at least there are ways of handling those perma-stealthed thieves. I think there were threads about it all over Reddit and the forums ages ago discussing how to handle it.
The general consensus was “don’t panic and try to anticipate”.
how to handle means that doesnt have a counter, you cant counter what you cant see, you can guess, but guessing is not a counter.
Entangle need a buff, it is good against bad players, and bad against normal players, vines have too few hp, perhaps Anet would consider to change this utility into a immobilize trap?
Ok the class mechanic of a class is not just whats on the f4 buttons, its the things/mechanics the class has that others dont.
theif = steal/iniative/stealth skills
these things are considered in every facet of theif. you cannot play a thief at all without considering iniative, and no other class has iniative.
If Stealth is part of the the thief class mechanic, how come three other classes have access to it? It’s as much the class mechanic as traps are the rangers.
Stealth doesnt have a counter → Thieves can spam stealth → profit.
No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.
This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic,
You’re welcome. And now excuse me; I need to facepalm really hard.
Learn to read.
where i said that initiative need a counter??? , the mechanic i was talking about was STEALTH, and a thief can spam stealth due to initiative.
Oh sorry, I wasn’t aware that stealth lets you “spam skills” and makes skills have “no CD” and such. Which btw in turn you said it doesn’t have a counter and is bad design. YES YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT INITIATIVE RIGHT THERE, SINCE STEALTH DOES NOT HAVE ANY INFLUENCE ON COOLDOWNS OR SKILL-SPAM AT ALL! Gosh. YOU should learn to read. Seriously. Learn to read what you yourself wrote.
I start to believe that you’re trolling, because you can’t possibly be THAT… uh, I better don’t say the word. You’re not worth getting an infraction.
it’s just broken in wvw with 99% of ppl running troll stealth ( shadow arts ) and shorter reveal
LEARN TO READ.
Now i will repeat myself, the thief is broken because initiative mechanic is Op due to the fact that this class can spam skills to use a mechanic that doesnt have counter ( stealth).
Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.
You are not a game designer though.
can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?
A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.
PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.
The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.
Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..
in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….
You fail to realize that thieves are pigeonholed into nearly full berserker to obtain those high damage numbers. Go ahead and try it on your guardian for a 56k whirling wrath, your warrior for a 25k hundred blades every 6 seconds. There are far more powerful options.
Powerful???
56k whirling wrath single target??? pics or videos pls.
25k each 6 seconds?, omg you must be a really bad thief if a warrior alone can hit you with a 100b, TIP:You can roll to evade 100b,is a static and channeled skill………
I never said a warrior could hit me with that. You’re very bad at assumptions.
Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.
You are not a game designer though.
can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?
A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.
PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.
The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.
Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..
in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….
You fail to realize that thieves are pigeonholed into nearly full berserker to obtain those high damage numbers. Go ahead and try it on your guardian for a 56k whirling wrath, your warrior for a 25k hundred blades every 6 seconds. There are far more powerful options.
Powerful???
56k whirling wrath single target??? pics or videos pls.
25k each 6 seconds?, omg you must be a really bad thief if a warrior alone can hit you with a 100b, TIP:You can roll to evade 100b,is a static and channeled skill………
I never said a warrior could hit me with that. You’re very bad at assumptions.
Was your thief friend who said that my opinion is wrong because im not a game designer……
BTW, no point to talk about thieves in a thief forum, still playing with the OP mechanic, i have a thief and it is really fun to play.
It is apparent that you don’t even read people’s posts. Let me spell it out for you….
You are wrong. Initiative does not need a counter because:
1.) It provides a universal cooldown for the thief, meaning that when it’s gone the thief can only autoattack until enough initiative regenerates. The thief cannot simply switch weapons and continue attacking.
2.) There are a few skills that are purely meant to do damage. Most of them can’t outdps the autoattacks anyways. The rest are either expensive to use or utility-heavy and weak. But not only that, thieves need the utility of those skills to maintain access to stealth and evades which are the main forms of survivability thieves have.
But if you still think the spam needs a counter, then all I have to say is one word:
Interrupts.
where i said that initiative need a counter?? what need a counter is stealth…….
Btw you have a nice post in the Spvp forum about interrupting a thief, and , you know what? a lot of thief skills DONT use init when interrupted, funny eh?
Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.
You are not a game designer though.
can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?
No but you do need experience for your opinion to carry any weight.
For example, I am a former thief main who spent over a year theorycrafting the thief profession. Because of it, I have WAY more knowledge and experience with the profession and I use it to make points in regards to discussions on the thief. Now you can argue with me about the profession all you want, but in the end I know more and know what I am talking about. And people will have to listen to me sooner or later lest they trudge through the same irritation I went through playing as one.
As for game designers, I am not one but I have done alot of homework on it, enough for me to point out that programmering and designing are two completely different fields. A designer does not have to program their designs however to help with budget companies usually combine both into one. But in their natural state, a designer could write a notebook worth of design and give it to you to program it into a videogame.
Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.
You are not a game designer though.
can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?
A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.
PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.
The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.
Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..
in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….
You fail to realize that thieves are pigeonholed into nearly full berserker to obtain those high damage numbers. Go ahead and try it on your guardian for a 56k whirling wrath, your warrior for a 25k hundred blades every 6 seconds. There are far more powerful options.
Powerful???
56k whirling wrath single target??? pics or videos pls.
25k each 6 seconds?, omg you must be a really bad thief if a warrior alone can hit you with a 100b, TIP:You can roll to evade 100b,is a static and channeled skill………
Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.
You are not a game designer though.
can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?
A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.
PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.
The difference is that you’re stating your opinion as a fact and backing it with non-arguments and hollow statements. Other classes must wait 20 seconds for far more powerful skills. I’d love to have a 1200 range chill with 3 boons removed that hits for 7k on average every 16 seconds.
Far more powerful skills? ahahahahahahah, more powerful than a backstab ? or than a CnD(high damage + stealth) ??? and if you missed the first time you can use it one more time, or two or three times…..
in 16 secs thief will gain 16 init, 3 high burst skill…….
