Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.
You are not a game designer though.
can I only have a opinion about a game if i’m a game designer?
can I only have a opinion about a NBA player if i’m a NBA Player?
can I only have a opinion about a TV Serie if i’m an actor or a director?
A not punishing mechanic as initiative system, is result of a bad design.
PD:You can use your best skill each 4-6 sec (if you have your init pool empty ), all other classes must wait 20 sec or more.
what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.
The thief skills are balanced around being spammable
That is the problem xDDD they can spam bad balanced/designed burst skills due to the initiative system.
PD:Sry if you are a spammer thief but , to say that something is unbalanced != QQ, you dont need to spam burst skills to win, if another class use a skill and miss, he have cd on the skill, if a thief miss a skill he can use same skill one more time (if have init ofc).
So if they have initiative, its OK to spam the skill? I don’t get why people are upset about spamming skills in the first place. Constant Q.Q from sb #3 spam and it does nothing but avoid certain death and even then, you’re initiative deprived meaning NO weapon skills can be used till it recharges. I think our weak heals, lack of stability, and being the lowest health pool all together more than makes up for our “spamming” ability.
No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.
This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic, GW1 assasin mechanic (combos) is BETTER than a spammable skill mechanic, and GW1 assasin was good and you had a hell of fun with him.
Sorry to be “that guy”, but are you a game designer? Have you a degree in programming or a certificate in game development? I don’t think you’re in any authority to say what’s bad design or good design. The initiative system works, and despite what you think it’s pretty cleverly balanced. You act as though the game developers have no idea what they’re doing. This game isn’t TERA, so forced combos are out. Instead, players have the freedom to create their own combos within a playstyle. The fact is that GW2 isn’t GW1, and Thief is not Assassin. The two aren’t comparable albeit a few skills with the same name. With that logic, though, I should complain that guardians are broken because their shouts have an AoE cap and don’t support allies as well as the paragon, and complain that his spirit weapons are OP because they can move as compared to the Ritualist whos spirits were bound to the ground.
sry to be “that guy” but yes, im programmer.
That alone doesn’t qualify you to determine what’s broken or not in a game you did not program and don’t have the full perspective on. You’d also think someone educated would at the very least use proper grammar.
Sry, but if in a MMORPG a mechanic doesnt have counter is broken, something broken is unbalanced, something unbalanced is bad designed.
what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.
The thief skills are balanced around being spammable
That is the problem xDDD they can spam bad balanced/designed burst skills due to the initiative system.
PD:Sry if you are a spammer thief but , to say that something is unbalanced != QQ, you dont need to spam burst skills to win, if another class use a skill and miss, he have cd on the skill, if a thief miss a skill he can use same skill one more time (if have init ofc).
So if they have initiative, its OK to spam the skill? I don’t get why people are upset about spamming skills in the first place. Constant Q.Q from sb #3 spam and it does nothing but avoid certain death and even then, you’re initiative deprived meaning NO weapon skills can be used till it recharges. I think our weak heals, lack of stability, and being the lowest health pool all together more than makes up for our “spamming” ability.
No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.
This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic, GW1 assasin mechanic (combos) is BETTER than a spammable skill mechanic, and GW1 assasin was good and you had a hell of fun with him.
Sorry to be “that guy”, but are you a game designer? Have you a degree in programming or a certificate in game development? I don’t think you’re in any authority to say what’s bad design or good design. The initiative system works, and despite what you think it’s pretty cleverly balanced. You act as though the game developers have no idea what they’re doing. This game isn’t TERA, so forced combos are out. Instead, players have the freedom to create their own combos within a playstyle. The fact is that GW2 isn’t GW1, and Thief is not Assassin. The two aren’t comparable albeit a few skills with the same name. With that logic, though, I should complain that guardians are broken because their shouts have an AoE cap and don’t support allies as well as the paragon, and complain that his spirit weapons are OP because they can move as compared to the Ritualist whos spirits were bound to the ground.
sry to be “that guy” but yes, im programmer.
We can create our own combos?? yes?? how??? .
In video games, a combo (short for combination) is a term that designates a set of actions performed in sequence, usually with strict timing limitations, that yield a significant benefit or advantage, and you talk about thief combos?? i call it skill spamming, but ok, you are the smart guy.
what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.
The thief skills are balanced around being spammable
That is the problem xDDD they can spam bad balanced/designed burst skills due to the initiative system.
PD:Sry if you are a spammer thief but , to say that something is unbalanced != QQ, you dont need to spam burst skills to win, if another class use a skill and miss, he have cd on the skill, if a thief miss a skill he can use same skill one more time (if have init ofc).
So if they have initiative, its OK to spam the skill? I don’t get why people are upset about spamming skills in the first place. Constant Q.Q from sb #3 spam and it does nothing but avoid certain death and even then, you’re initiative deprived meaning NO weapon skills can be used till it recharges. I think our weak heals, lack of stability, and being the lowest health pool all together more than makes up for our “spamming” ability.
No, i said that the “possibility” to spam skills is a design flaw of game mechanic.
This is the first game where a mechanic doesnt have a counter, and one class is able to spam it, and this, is clearly a poor designed mechanic, GW1 assasin mechanic (combos) is BETTER than a spammable skill mechanic, and GW1 assasin was good and you had a hell of fun with him.
what is really OP is no CD skills, and a initiative mechanic that let thieves spam skills.
The thief skills are balanced around being spammable
That is the problem xDDD they can spam bad balanced/designed burst skills due to the initiative system.
PD:Sry if you are a spammer thief but , to say that something is unbalanced != QQ, you dont need to spam burst skills to win, if another class use a skill and miss, he have cd on the skill, if a thief miss a skill he can use same skill one more time (if have init ofc).
I always find stealth-“spamming” Mesmers a bit of a weird thing. We’re talking 24-30 seconds CD on one, 36-kitten on another, 90s on another and 90s on the final one.
And none lasts long either (3s, 3s, 2s, 5s respectively, +1 each for PU).
How is that stealth “spam”?
Each time a mesmer use Deceptive Evasion in WvW become stealthed for 1 sec ( dunno if this is due to the fact that i dont have graphical options at maximun, but is unfair).
PvP players need to realize we are not upset with the ranger’s state in PvP. I PvP from time to time on my ranger and I don’t have any issues in there. PvP on rangers right now are fine. I’m seeing too many posts related to PvP posters saying things like “cry more PvE/WvW is ez mode with my swagbow, ranger is fine GG YOLO”.
What 90% of this thread is talking about is PvE, and WvW.
What’s more annoying is PvP and PvE are supposedly separate as far as skills getting buffed/nerfed. Yet, every time they nerf rangers in PvP, the PvE/WvW rangers get hit with the same nerf. Cut the invisible symbiotic bond between the two game modes and be done with it. Separate them for good.
Pet leash range, and pet attack range were nerfed due to Spvp Players.
Pet leash range was purely due to PvE and WvW because you could tell your pet to attack stuff and let it kill stuff while you were miles away. I abused this loads of times to kill veterans while hiding in safety outside of the area. All you had to do was activate TU when pet HP got low….
In WvW, it wrecked havoc on thieves and mesmers when the old BM builds told the pet to attack a thief or a mesmer, it did so and tracked them through stealth (couldnt attack, but if they dropped stealth the pet was on their kitten in a split second). Thief/mesmer tries to run and the pet would follow all the way back to citadel spawn, forcing them ot be in combat.
Leash range was never a real issue in PvP, merely an annoyance.
Also, if you do not take care of your pet, you do not take care of your own DPS. Ignoring the pet, is like not giving a kitten about your own DPS output. Whatever effort you put into the pet, comes out in the form of pure performance. Nothing else.
Pet leashr ange was nerfed because rangers were able to capture points and send pet to help their teammate, it is true that leash had a IMBALANCED distance, but the nerf was too hard.
I remember to be able to send pet to attack ballistas and catas while i was out of range xDDD
PvP players need to realize we are not upset with the ranger’s state in PvP. I PvP from time to time on my ranger and I don’t have any issues in there. PvP on rangers right now are fine. I’m seeing too many posts related to PvP posters saying things like “cry more PvE/WvW is ez mode with my swagbow, ranger is fine GG YOLO”.
What 90% of this thread is talking about is PvE, and WvW.
What’s more annoying is PvP and PvE are supposedly separate as far as skills getting buffed/nerfed. Yet, every time they nerf rangers in PvP, the PvE/WvW rangers get hit with the same nerf. Cut the invisible symbiotic bond between the two game modes and be done with it. Separate them for good.
Pet leash range, and pet attack range were nerfed due to Spvp Players.
I don’t think we need more condition removal on healing skills, it should be on a specific weapon skill or an active trait on a category of utility skills (traps for exemple).
Ranger need a heal with condition removal.
You have Healing Spring already
To have all the benefits of healing spring you need to stay in the spot for 10 secs :P, we need a instant on demand heal cond. remove, like Warriors mending, we have “heal as one” as candidate.
I don’t think we need more condition removal on healing skills, it should be on a specific weapon skill or an active trait on a category of utility skills (traps for exemple).
Ofc, not all builds run signets or shouts, some builds will always leave your pet more vulnerable then others, but that goes for all games which has pets in them. No game with a beastmaster/pet class has yet to produce a 100% pet survival system no matter what. The pet will perform completely dependent on its masters build.
You should look at Lineage 2 Wynn summoner, was THE OP PET CLASS xD, nice skills, nice pets (3 at same time, to be exact xDD), have a buff to redirect damage to pets, was able to heal them, have a lot of HARD CC because summoner is squishy, pets were able to land hits on players(L2 Combat is “static”).
haha i love it when prysin battles urdriel and wins it everytime xD
Because seems than prysin love Pve, and i talk about WvW and pvp environment.
All other class mechanics are better and more rewarded than ranger mechanic, and we need a BIG amount of micromanagement to be on par with other classes.
Try with a Warrior friend full berserk with optimal dps build your dps vs is Axe dps, and you will cry.
If you use BM tree your pet will hit hard, but must be able to hit your enemy, if your enemy is a mob , ofc you will hit him, if your enemy is a normal player your pet will miss A LOT of hits, sry but if pets cant hit players we have a huge damage loss, it is not about win or lose, it is the truth, and you can timing your attack to hit a enemy, your pet CANT.
Also on a final note today, I want to emphasize an issue others have raised.. that pets are not able to receive food/tool buffs. While this is not a core issue, it is an annoying one for those of us invested in WvW/PvE. If this could be changed in the near future, it would be much appreciated.
no buff from food/tool + No “buff” from player gear/stats = We have less damage than all other classes.
Please consider reducing pet aggro range, if it gets so many boosts.
Pets will just hunt down players, even if their master has no clue abut where his opponent is.
e.g.#1 I’m getting outnumbered at clocktower, so i stealth and leave through the window, “phew it was close, i hardly survived with 2k hp” then le pet finds me from nowhere and kills me with one hit. After its owner loaded the node he just has to look around for popping numbers to find me. …
e.g.#2 Not much to explain on this… just calculate the way the pet had to run from the roof to get to me.
Lol now pet have 1200 range,was nerfed months ago due to Spvp cryers……if the pet killed you there was because you was in the aggro range…….
pet qq here…pet qq there…qq people from other discussions everywhere.
any other themes then our pets? its about the ranger in general and not just the pet
Also, you guys can’t see this due to the limitations of formatting on our forums, but a lot of these points were made by many of you guys. As such, they are much more emphasized in the email threads and discussions we have internally.
First, thank you for your summary. What I think got missed in the pile was the idea that pet damage should be rebalanced so that they no longer draw 30% of our damage from us in the first place. All other classes core mechanics add to base damage where as rangers loose almost a third of our player damage in order to have an AI run around with us. If our pets hit every time and are never dead, we just get to 100% base damage of every other class capping us at 100% a warrior hits 115% with his/her core mechanic.
This does not take into account the loss of gear stats on the pet which is significant.
this is completely false, all classes are balanced with their class mechanics in mind.
A mesmer isnt doing high level dmg competitive with other dps classes without phantasms or conditions without its clones. Necro base power on skills is lower even on its dps skills because they consider condition/minions in their max dps. Elementalists skills are tied to swapping elements, and they specifically place finishers and AOE in different places to promote swapping. Theif inititative totally changes how and what skills get dmg, and its generally balanced around initiative costs. Every classes mechanic is figured into their DPS.
Also, what this guy said ^
All other classes can choose, a mesmer can choose a phantasm build or not, a Necro can choose a minion build or not, we cant choose, we have an AI controlled pet that is a dps lost and we must bear with it each second we play GW2.
Ofc, we are frustrated, more than 1 year with a pet that is a debuff instead of a buff, the best fix that ranger class could have would be a “good pet” , but instead of that, Anet nerfed pet leash range,pet attack range and we have a severe damage handicap when we attack or defend a keep.
those examples are not pertaining to class mechanics those are utilities and we can do that too, we can take sigils, spirits, or traps. none of which are as useful as those classes have their utilities because of the heavy reliance they have for us in traits.
I said minion and phantasm because are AI controlled bro…..
I’m not saying this isn’t possible, but I want you to understand exactly what that suggestion means. It would mean completely rebalancing the Ranger.
The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?
The only reason Rangers lose damage is because the AI is not currently what it ought to be. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we should completely redesign the Ranger and get rid of the pet.
Hi Allie, and thank you for your replies.
—i wrote a very long post—
You are misunderstanding the conscept of other professions; If they do not use their mechanics, they will not be able to achieve 100% potential. Saying a warrior can do 115% is absurd, because the rapid bursts is what produces those “15%”. Without bursts, a warrior’s damage is quite mediocre unless you built it to gain damage from some other mechanic, such as banner-buffs.
If you look at a warriors weapons, and the burst options, you see that certain weapons have lower base damage then you may expect, related directly to the damage that the burst can do. Axe mainhand is a good example of this. Its AA has lower damage then weapons of equal damage stats but since eviscerate does so much damage it makes up for the loss.
OMG, are you saying than Warrior Axe AA have less damage than other skills??
Warrior Axe AA autoattack is probably the best dps in this game for an AA, and eviscerate is a “if your opponent have 50% hp or less press f1 to win”.
You are either being ignorant on pourpose or simply misreading what he is saying. I’ll put it in lazy man terms:
If each of these classes lost the ability to use their Class mechanic, here are the estimated results:
Class mechanic/F1-F4 not used in all aspects of the game per class(% decreased)
Engineer 30%
Gaurdian 20%
Warrior 35%
Elementalist 65%
Mesmer 25%
Thief 40%
Necro 20%
Ranger 30%
Ranger isn’t in such a bad position if their pet dies compared to some of the other classes.
Gaurdian 20% <- Guardian mechanic have lest than 10% of his damage perhaps, f1 to f4 INSTANT-
Warrior 35% <- Adrenaline bar, nice SYNERGY with traits, IMBA burst f1 INSTANT skills.
Elementalist 65% <- they have 20 skills to use, and nice SYNERGY traits when changing attunements
*Mesmer 25% <- Phantasm and clones are better than pet, and you CAN CHOOSE, sometimes it is amazing the pathfinding of phantasm, really…..
Thief 40% <- Most op Mechanic of the whole game (stealth + initiative), no cd skills.
*Necro 20% <-you can CHOOSE minions or not.
6/8 dont rely in AI controlled npc.
mesmer phantasm build have a nice generation of phantasm/clones.
We have a pet , that die easily and is totally random.
I’m not saying this isn’t possible, but I want you to understand exactly what that suggestion means. It would mean completely rebalancing the Ranger.
The Ranger is designed to have a pet. If the pet was taken away or didn’t do damage, then it wouldn’t be a Ranger anymore. Does that make sense?
The only reason Rangers lose damage is because the AI is not currently what it ought to be. That doesn’t necessarily mean that we should completely redesign the Ranger and get rid of the pet.
Hi Allie, and thank you for your replies.
—i wrote a very long post—
You are misunderstanding the conscept of other professions; If they do not use their mechanics, they will not be able to achieve 100% potential. Saying a warrior can do 115% is absurd, because the rapid bursts is what produces those “15%”. Without bursts, a warrior’s damage is quite mediocre unless you built it to gain damage from some other mechanic, such as banner-buffs.
If you look at a warriors weapons, and the burst options, you see that certain weapons have lower base damage then you may expect, related directly to the damage that the burst can do. Axe mainhand is a good example of this. Its AA has lower damage then weapons of equal damage stats but since eviscerate does so much damage it makes up for the loss.
OMG, are you saying than Warrior Axe AA have less damage than other skills??
Warrior Axe AA autoattack is probably the best dps in this game for an AA, and eviscerate is a “if your opponent have 50% hp or less press f1 to win”.
If a 5-target AoE hits a bear instead of an elementalist… is that considered support?
If you stand behind a devourer and it blocks projectiles aimed at you… is that considered survivability?
If you swap between moas and they provide 8k aoe healing (1340×3pulsesx2moas) on a 40s cooldown, isn’t that equivalent to a second healing skill?
If a malicious spider hits with a web and a paralyzing venom followed by a pet swap and another web and the target is immobilized for a full 13.5 seconds… is that any good?
If you know the tricks that let you use your pet on demand to knockdown (dogs), blast (drakes), swiftness (birds), fear (shark), or heal (moas)… isn’t that useful?
I like having an interesting toolbox and finding ways to work with it. Other people just seem to want numbers they can see.
Answers:
It is called collateral damage.
2 ways to be able to do this, your enemy is stupid and dont move while attack at you, or you use guard in a point where your pet cant attack, we have a nice wall of flesh and lost 30% of our damage.
so, you lost 30% of YOUR damage to heal for 8k aoe?? any aoe burst skill will delete these 8k heal,btw you lost 30% of your damage and have 20sec cd, ?are you happy¿
Stop attacking training dummies.
It is cool when your pet need 4-5-6 secs. to perform f2 skill. not always ofc.
Also, you guys can’t see this due to the limitations of formatting on our forums, but a lot of these points were made by many of you guys. As such, they are much more emphasized in the email threads and discussions we have internally.
First, thank you for your summary. What I think got missed in the pile was the idea that pet damage should be rebalanced so that they no longer draw 30% of our damage from us in the first place. All other classes core mechanics add to base damage where as rangers loose almost a third of our player damage in order to have an AI run around with us. If our pets hit every time and are never dead, we just get to 100% base damage of every other class capping us at 100% a warrior hits 115% with his/her core mechanic.
This does not take into account the loss of gear stats on the pet which is significant.
this is completely false, all classes are balanced with their class mechanics in mind.
A mesmer isnt doing high level dmg competitive with other dps classes without phantasms or conditions without its clones. Necro base power on skills is lower even on its dps skills because they consider condition/minions in their max dps. Elementalists skills are tied to swapping elements, and they specifically place finishers and AOE in different places to promote swapping. Theif inititative totally changes how and what skills get dmg, and its generally balanced around initiative costs. Every classes mechanic is figured into their DPS.
Also, what this guy said ^
All other classes can choose, a mesmer can choose a phantasm build or not, a Necro can choose a minion build or not, we cant choose, we have an AI controlled pet that is a dps lost and we must bear with it each second we play GW2.
Ofc, we are frustrated, more than 1 year with a pet that is a debuff instead of a buff, the best fix that ranger class could have would be a “good pet” , but instead of that, Anet nerfed pet leash range,pet attack range and we have a severe damage handicap when we attack or defend a keep.
Thank you for the summary post, however, I did not see anything in there pertaining to WvWvW. We still have the problem of them dieing way to fast in zerg vs zerg. And we also have the large issue of us loosing 30% of our damage when defending or taking a keep/fort because pet’s will not scale up or down the walls. This includes the birds which will not fly up or down the wall to attack the targets. The only way I can see to combat this would be to have pets like all over class mechanics, an addition to our damage, not taking away from our damage. For instance, warriors get to do 100% of their damage and if they have full adrenaline they do an extra 15% damage. Ranger should be set up the same way with pets. Ranger’s should have 100% control of their damage and the pet, while alive, should be able to deal an extra 15% damage. If the pet is dead then it deals no extra damage like warriors with no adrenaline will deal no extra damage. We will still have the problem of the pets not being able to hit a moving target but at least the ranger will no longer have this handicap on them.
Thing is, warriors have to build adrenaline to have that bonus damage, and they have plenty of incentive to spend it. In many scenarios ranger pet DPS is always up, so ranger base DPS has to be lower or they’d outshine other classes.
That said, pet DPS is much more often down than intended (dead, inactive to prevent dying, can’t hit spit with default creature AI, etc.), so I wouldn’t mind a band-aid to either boost pet or ranger base damages across the board to account for this. At least until pets are closer to 100% uptime.
i will change pets for a “adrenaline” bar like warrior.
in all other MMO’s pet was either brokenly OP or a complete failure.
In GW2 we got a pet that works well in 1v1 but is broken as hell in mass encounters (those other MMO’s didn’t fare well in this area either).
Having damage tied up in the pet is NOT the core issue, it is using it. And yes, you can avoid pets by using WASD, but you can also use those same keys to avoid clone attacks, ele staff attacks, guard scepter attacks, warrior LB attacks, engineer grenades, engineer bombs, thief SB or pretty much ANY projectile and or AOE not derived from a rifle/pistol due to overall low projectile speed.
You cant avoid clones attack only moving the toon, they will follow you.
I can timing MY attacks to land clean hits on my opponents(when they roll,dodge,evade,move,etc), but i cant micromanage each attack of pets, so, when you are fighting you can only count with your raw damage( 70%), because your pet damage is random, and something totally random ,in Spvp/WvW is BAD.
Guest what?? in all other MMOs with a “beastmaster” their pet was able to hit the enemy players, you can "evade2 50% of a pet attack only using WASD while stomping his master……
And that is why the pet has to be improved and not be removed or damage re-distributed to the Ranger 100%. So how is this an argument against the pet mechanic as a whole? People really need to give ANet a chance to adjust the pet. Should it have be done earlier? Yes! Is them not doing it earlier a reason to reject the pet completely? Nope!
they nerfed attack range, nerfed leash range, nerfed Guard, omg, if they want that ranger use the pet stop nerfing it, now you cant send you pet to attack because have less range than your Max range, you cant use pets to attack when you are defending a keep , and when a thief/engi/mesmer use a stealth skill our pet stop attacking…..
There might be some aspects which have an individual AI (attacks) but I highly doubt that they have a different AI besides that. Look at their pathing. It is the same (e.g. iLeap, Shatters). I’m not talking about the responsiveness when hitting F1-F4. Shatters only reliably hit your target when you are close to it. Some Illusions also suffer from slow projectiles which can be avoided (Staff Clones, iMage) which is exactly the same issue certain Ranger pets have. And let’s not talk about the broken iWarden.
As said, the issues Elementalists have are different than Rangers. It is more related to cooldowns and access to their skills which is limited due their attunement mechanic.
30% of our raw damage is on our pet,and our skills have less damage coef. due to class mechanic, all other classes dont have this problem, you can you choose to use phantasm or not, but you are not penalized with 30% of your raw damage, pet should be a damage buff, not a damage debuff like is now.
Guess what: A pet class is supposed to have a certain amount of damage and utility linked to their pet. That is why they are a pet class. I’ve never seen this being any different in any MMO I played (DAoC, LotRO).
Mesmers are penalized in form of damage because of their class mechanic. You might want to check their baseline damage without Illusions or Shatters. I can not chose to not use it. I have to use it or I will be inefficient. This is quite obvious when looking at both PvP and PvE. In PvE everyone runs Phantasm builds because their damage would be too low otherwise. In s/tPvP most Mesmers run Shatter because their burst would be too low otherwise.
Elementalists are penalized in form of cooldowns and being locked out of skills.
Necromancers are penalized in a lack of damage mitigation outside of DS.
People really need to get rid of this damsel in distress behaviour.
Guest what?? in all other MMOs with a “beastmaster” their pet was able to hit the enemy players, you can "evade2 50% of a pet attack only using WASD while stomping his master……
This would specifically be why I would not do something like it. ANet should not try to patch human stupidity. It’s not possible, anyhow.
Stupidity is not the same than efficiency, when you do fractal/dungeons/content, you look for efficiency, and ranger is not the best class to fill that role.
Mesmer clones don’t share common mob AI. That’s why they work better.
Nope. That is not true. Same AI. They just work better because they are bount to one target and lack an AA. This results in them being more reliable at hitting the target. This also means that Ranger mechanic would be a lot better if the pet was better at actually landing an attack. So saying the pet mechanic is doomed to fail because of the AI is just wrong. Increasing the melee range, maybe the pet speed and making pets more durable against area attacks might actually be enough to make it work.
So yeah, unlike my Mesmer or Guardian or Thief or Warrior or Engineer or Elementalist whose class mechanics work and I have never had issue with the Ranger pet will is a handicap. Thus, once you come to the realization of this fact, it is not unreasonable to want a way out of it.
Mesmers also got a rather low baseline damage because of Illusions. They also suffer when not using their Shatters. However, shattering Illusions has the same pathing issues like Ranger pets. They also suffer in scenarios with massive area damage like Rangers. There is a reason why you won’t see any Shatter Mesmer in larger scale fights. Elementalists and Necromancers also suffer from their class mechanic but due to different reasons. Suggesting that Rangers are the only class with flaws in their mechanic is just false and solely used to justify getting rid of it. Some people just don’t even try to make it work or simply don’t like pets.
Nevertheless, I can understand when people prefer getting rid of the pet. However, it quite obviously does not contribute anything to this thread when ANet clearly stated their position.
30% of our raw damage is on our pet,and our skills have less damage coef. due to class mechanic, all other classes dont have this problem, you can you choose to use phantasm or not, but you are not penalized with 30% of your raw damage, pet should be a damage buff, not a damage debuff like is now.
If you make a mistake with another class you are punished by game cd mechanic , Thieves, to be on par with other classes, should gain initiative with X skills to be able to use more powerful skills, now, is a Burst skill spam.
Thank you for the summary post, however, I did not see anything in there pertaining to WvWvW. We still have the problem of them dieing way to fast in zerg vs zerg. And we also have the large issue of us loosing 30% of our damage when defending or taking a keep/fort because pet’s will not scale up or down the walls. This includes the birds which will not fly up or down the wall to attack the targets. The only way I can see to combat this would be to have pets like all over class mechanics, an addition to our damage, not taking away from our damage. For instance, warriors get to do 100% of their damage and if they have full adrenaline they do an extra 15% damage. Ranger should be set up the same way with pets. Ranger’s should have 100% control of their damage and the pet, while alive, should be able to deal an extra 15% damage. If the pet is dead then it deals no extra damage like warriors with no adrenaline will deal no extra damage. We will still have the problem of the pets not being able to hit a moving target but at least the ranger will no longer have this handicap on them.
+1 #15characters
That’s because most of the suggestions I saw regarding WvW were either labeled PvX or WvW/PvE so I just put it under PvX.
and butter goes good on toast. But neither of those things have anything to do with GW2.
You want to 1v1? Go play Street Fighter. Thanks.
Phantasm mesmer do a lot of damage in aoe too, you have nice utilities (veil, mass quickness), and is a good roamer, you can “summon” phantasms inside keeps to kill people( oh wait is a bug, dont fix it….).
What is the point of this thread?? make a good class a GOD class?
not in wvw. u cant summon them inside keep at all! i play mes and this is a false statement. u can attck the gat, but i cant cast it on walls or on enemies behind the gate anymore. that one was nerfed ages ago. the iwarde ins the one that is broken and wont attack the gate and will wander off randomly. most of the phantasms willget obstructed in wvw …like non stop.
u are on staris=obstructed phantasm
on walls=obstructed
there is unbuilt oil=obstructed with berserker
on a bridge=onstructed
enemy o unever errain=obstructed
anamy behind gate=obstructed
enemy around the corner=obstructed
utilities? really! so u want me to be veilbot. do u even know how boring the veil/tw portal stuff is?
u cant deal aoe dmg. u cast 1 phantasm and if u are lucky it hits and doesent insta die in aoe. all u do is either cast a few aa on gs, ther berserker(45% chance to get obstructed and full phantasm cd) then u use gs 2, gs3, gs5 and deal barely any dmg. u cast veil and then tw and then your job is done. u are not there to deal dmg.
u could pretend to be a ganker and go for the casters on a super class mes, but thats it. we got no real aoe. our aoe disappeared with the glamour nerf.
so before even telling me this “but u got utilities”…stuff. go play a veilbot for a week. its not fun and mes is terribad in raids as dmg dealer.
xDDD lol, you are a mesmer and dont know that phantasm can pass by closed doors of keeps to attack people that are inside…….lol………
At least your class have a nice set of group utilities, i play ranger……..
The only phantasm that attacks behind the gate is iWarden because the ai is broken and constantly changes targets, which he mentioned.
I was attacked 2 days ago by a berserker phantasm inside keep……
and butter goes good on toast. But neither of those things have anything to do with GW2.
You want to 1v1? Go play Street Fighter. Thanks.
Phantasm mesmer do a lot of damage in aoe too, you have nice utilities (veil, mass quickness), and is a good roamer, you can “summon” phantasms inside keeps to kill people( oh wait is a bug, dont fix it….).
What is the point of this thread?? make a good class a GOD class?
not in wvw. u cant summon them inside keep at all! i play mes and this is a false statement. u can attck the gat, but i cant cast it on walls or on enemies behind the gate anymore. that one was nerfed ages ago. the iwarde ins the one that is broken and wont attack the gate and will wander off randomly. most of the phantasms willget obstructed in wvw …like non stop.
u are on staris=obstructed phantasm
on walls=obstructed
there is unbuilt oil=obstructed with berserker
on a bridge=onstructed
enemy o unever errain=obstructed
anamy behind gate=obstructed
enemy around the corner=obstructed
utilities? really! so u want me to be veilbot. do u even know how boring the veil/tw portal stuff is?
u cant deal aoe dmg. u cast 1 phantasm and if u are lucky it hits and doesent insta die in aoe. all u do is either cast a few aa on gs, ther berserker(45% chance to get obstructed and full phantasm cd) then u use gs 2, gs3, gs5 and deal barely any dmg. u cast veil and then tw and then your job is done. u are not there to deal dmg.
u could pretend to be a ganker and go for the casters on a super class mes, but thats it. we got no real aoe. our aoe disappeared with the glamour nerf.
so before even telling me this “but u got utilities”…stuff. go play a veilbot for a week. its not fun and mes is terribad in raids as dmg dealer.
xDDD lol, you are a mesmer and dont know that phantasm can pass by closed doors of keeps to attack people that are inside…….lol………
At least your class have a nice set of group utilities, i play ranger……..
When people simply say “the pet,” I wonder how much was invested in that pet.
The default petshave 0 traits, 0 bonus stats, 0 condition damage, 0 movement speed buff, 0 regen, 0 pet utility skills, and 0 support from the ranger or the ranger’s gear.
The most powerful petsbenefit from most of the ranger’s traits, up to 4100 bonus stats (Beastmastery 300×4, Master’s Bond 200×4, Might 875×2, Trait 350×1), up to 1225 condition damage, +50% condition duration, 25-40% movement speed buff, massive regen, 3 pet-related utility skills, and full support from the ranger, and the ranger’s healing, precision, and boon duration gear. (Giving the pet 25 stacks of might can be done with a single key using the right build.)
I can keep pets alive in 30v30 zerg fights (map-blob vs map-blob is another story), but it requires building specifically for that purpose (a bit different from the most lethal pet) and making a compromise with my own safety. With the upcoming change to F2 activation, I may play this way more often.
Should there be less difference between the min and max pets?
Should it be easier to spec for a good pet?
Should pets have more utility by default that isn’t heavily dependent on their stats?
Thieves and mesmer will laugh hard at your pet , all other classes will kite it until the end of the fight
Now we are skirmishers, not archers. I think it’s a “Go melee or get out” thingy.
Yes, common sense, we will give you Shortbow and Longbow but you must go melee…….
they also gave you daggers swords greatswords and axes.
this game isnt designed where one of a professions weaponsets is supposed to better than others, each set is supposed to serve different needs.
ranger is meant to be able to go in and out of range, and have good options from any range. They actually did that fairly decently, my main beef is LB/SB is boring. I wouldnt mind aimed shots and charged attacks, but i dont know if thats what yall want
Oh yes, without traits, max LB range 1200 SB 900, gap closers have 600-1200 range, you hit 1 time and in 1 second your enemy is at melee distance, it is really stupid, on the other side a warrior can hit like a truck and run like the roadrunner ( WITH HEAVY ARMOR…)
LB/SB are boring because the best dps is always the AutoAttack, this is a DESIGN FLAW.
SB is supposed to be a condition weapon.
And LB is supposed to be a Power weapon, but DOESNT HAVE a real burst skill.
I saw a beauty of a post in the CDI a day ago. The guy started the post with …“I have never played a Ranger, but here are my suggestions how to improve them”
Pretty much sums up the problem.
If you fight against rangers you know what they need ……..
Actually rangers need a skill which people were afraid of, each time people see a ranger they stomp him because they know that rangers doesnt have a real burst skill(eviscerate,mindwrack,elecombo,stealth+BS,etc).
lol yea, that makes them a real expert.
#wow
If you are a good player .yes, you know what rangers need, and TBH you only must look at numbers in WvW for example, 1/50 is ranger, 40/50 guardian/warriors/thieves, 9/50 eles,engis,nec,mesmer.
I saw a beauty of a post in the CDI a day ago. The guy started the post with …“I have never played a Ranger, but here are my suggestions how to improve them”
Pretty much sums up the problem.
If you fight against rangers you know what they need………
Actually rangers need a skill which people were afraid of, each time people see a ranger they stomp him because they know that rangers doesnt have a real burst skill(eviscerate,mindwrack,elecombo,stealth+BS,etc).
It should be either 0.5 or 0.75 seconds. Also, the current meta has so much AoE that these utilities are not durable enough to be useful. They need to have their hp boosted, especially for the disenchanter.
So, you want to buff Mesmer phantasms hp to be able to use them in WvW?? but if you buff hp in WvW his hp will be OP in 1vs1 fights or roaming,
and butter goes good on toast. But neither of those things have anything to do with GW2.
You want to 1v1? Go play Street Fighter. Thanks.
Phantasm mesmer do a lot of damage in aoe too, you have nice utilities (veil, mass quickness), and is a good roamer, you can “summon” phantasms inside keeps to kill people( oh wait is a bug, dont fix it….).
What is the point of this thread?? make a good class a GOD class?
The Ranger isn’t expected to do burst damage. By sustained, we mean that the Ranger should excel at surviving (resilient) through burst while still doing enough damage over time to take the opponent down.
If we have to trade burst damage for surviving, can we at least get resilient without the need to trait to be tanky? Every other class can do that but better.
Anet nerfed ranger vigor, nerfed pets, nerfed shortbow, but we must excel at surviving……..
Prysin pls, open your eyes…….a warrior axe AA have more damage than your and your pet( and more armor, and more hp…), anyway, when you play ranger and try another class you know how to avoid the pet, you lost 30% damage due to a poor designed mechanic.
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