Guild Wars 2

And lot of peoples predicted this before the release. EOTM will actually hurt wvw a lot and not an implementation and QOL change to queues as arenanet announced. But, arenanet is in their own way… idk what arenanet want to do with this game anymore. I just get bored of this, i am slowly leaving this game, like a lots of friends.

Too complex for this game.

DivineBeing.2086:

PvE is the solution though.

Don’t believe me? Look at the server populations, majority of the servers are high, very high, or full for NA. If that entire population were to contribute to WvW there would be no “coverage problem.”

PVE player is the first players who left the game when new game with new content is release. I think is like that PVE=coop vs ai/single player game. PVP=team based vs game.

Server population is a lie. A lot of servers are full of inactive accounts, a lot of ppl left the game long time ago. You are from BG. Guest into low tier servers and you will see. I was on SF, i know what i am talking about. I should many times to guest in JQ/BG to do something related with pve

Allie Murdock.8152:

We would all love it if we could spend our time reading the forums and responding to feedback, but the reality of the situation is there are just not enough hours in the day to do that and develop the game, so we have to have a balance.

I am not talking about feedback.

I spend time (like a lot of ppl) writing here. I have a full time work too and is not in this forum.

There is a LOT of community coordinators, reading (and deleting) post, mostly in wvw section. If i read the forum few min a day and i can resume the problems of wvw in few lines, like someone already said, they are pretty obvious. You don’t need to spend a lot of time to know what happen in wvw. Anyone in arenanet can bring that information to the dev, like community coordinators, if devs can’t play wvw to see what happen there or read the forum.

But really, the problems are pretty obvious, if they haven’t time to see it (in game or in the forum) i think the devs are working blind.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know that we’re working on another Collaborative Development initiative that we will be rolling out soon. So, start thinking about some things you would like to see in WvW, and watch out for the new thread!

- A

You already have a LOT of thing in the forum, you can check it out, i thing one year of material to work with.

Don’t take this offensive, but, after a lot of absence in a lot of time in a lots of post and now you are asking for a Collaborative Development…

Is ok and surely appreciated, but you understand it, right? WvW community feel pretty ignored from long time ago. For me a “We will hear you now” is not enough. You already have the community opinion in the forum, already posted, you can work with that. I think WvW community want to see improvements, no promises.

Take it like a constructive observation about what you did in the past.

Carpboy.7145:

No really, how does this thread still exist? Are the mods on vacation? Or is there some kind of “anti-mod” Jedi mind trick?

Yes, lets hide the bad design bs beneath the carpet.

frans.8092:

Oh dear, they’ve imrpved the 30/30/30/30/30 build to a 30/30/40/30/30 build. You can only pick three majors, you already had two for the initiative, now you want two more for condition removal and healing. Maybe you want the regen trait as well, and the blind trait.

0/30/30 and D/P is all you need. SA V and CS 15 is all you need to keep your initiative up. And spam stealth at your will without risk or needed to melee or land a hit.

frans.8092:

And don’t just blow AoE, use them to control their movement (nobody likes running around in circles inside AoE’s).

How much aoe you think someone have? and how much CD you think another class have in their abilities?

Still guessing. The best L2P from thief-permastealth-lovers is guessing and bet your CDs and skills in where you SUPPOSE the thief is. That is not a counter, that is not a l2p.

Invisibility spamming is toxic for ANY game. Discuss against it is like discuss the shape of the earth in the 21century. Is so obvious why a perma-invisiblity is toxic and broken for a game…

A lot, A LOT of thief need to learn to play without that insanely broken d/p combo. Like many thief does.

Would be great if any developer come here to tell us why they keep stealth in the current state and why this is “balanced”.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What i don’t get, every other MMO has a PENALTY for being in stealth one that normally reduces movement speed, why is it in this game being in Stealth and taking a trait INCREASES your movement speed….

Not only movement speed, health and initiative regeneration, condition removal, is a free-reset for you. And you can spam it, and you are invisible, not in stealth, you are invisible.

In stealth you shouldn’t can heal, be healed or gain more initiative.

Azukas.1426:

I’ll help people out here

Stand in the BP to interrupt multiple HS through it.
Use pulls pushes and CC to stop the HS
Identify the 3 utility skills they bring

It’s not hard to do this. Once you realize the skills they using along with weapon sets theniit’s literally just a few attacks (regardless of their toughness) to down them

Give me spameable (without CD) CC and i have no problem to fight against spameable-noCD stealth.

Aurust.8961:

urieldhynne.2743:

Actually is hurting a lot my current matchup. The BLs are empty and the same for EBG the majority of time. I play in T3 matchup.

Is a good idea to cover the queue times, but… there is no more big queues since long long time ago. maybe only in t1 servers, and this is only 1 matchup. Good idea, but they need to regroup and remake some kind of wvw servers, 24 servers for the current global wvw population is just an illusion, i think they need to cut it to a half, because below T4 the wvw is pretty dead because the lack of ppl. Even in the last weeks is dead in t3.

Anet kept raising server caps since last summer….. and allowed further stacking of tier 1 servers drawing away all the population from the lower tiers.

Last summer, BG and JQ were at full, and SOR at very high. This was when SOR was the number 1 server. Thats when Anet first started raising the caps and essentially gutted the wvw populations of the lower tiers.

They need to merge some servers.

After several months inactive accounts should be unbound from a server. If they come back they can choose your server again.

scabrous.7835:

EDIT: Before someone says that dp thief can disengage at will. All the classes but necro are capable of doing it.

You know what is the difference? Another classes disengage and BOTH disengage. The thief don’t “disengage”, he remain in combat and you too, stealth regenerate a lot of initiative, and they have a lot of health regeneration and condition removal from it. Stealth let them to reset HIM, not you. You have a lot of thing on CD, low health, and you don’t see him, or just see him for less than 1sec. And they have the first strike again (and that first strike HIT A LOT) over and over.

You only can guess where they are or when they gonna strike, blowing your aoe damage cooldown in guessing positions. They haven’t CDs.

Is ok if the thief need to land a strike to go in stealth like D/D need to do. But when you are free to spam it without risk is kitteng powerful.

Jim Hunter.6821:

It’s not guessing. You know they are going to HS through their BP, and you know they are going to try to position themselves for a backstab. Most thieves are built so a strong breeze will put them in the down state so just AoE or cleave where you know they will be.

Still guessing, because a smart thief is not going to do the obvious thing. Of course there is a lot of bad thief who play like NPC, but, when they don’t do that? Stealth is a far strong mechanic when you use it well, not like a pro, just well. The ability to spam it without risk (D/P thief) is just broken when is used correctly, just correctly. No real counter for that mechanic and you can spam it.

Anyways, in the case the thief come to backstab you every time, and you build some defense (because you dont have stealth) they have more damage than you because stealth let them to build full glasscanon without risk. In the repeat process (BS, stealth, recharge ini, BS, stealth, recharge ini) you will lose in every exchange. And that is what happen , if the thief lose in a exchange they just go to stealth more time for recovery, you cant do that, and they do that from far (no like D/D thief who need to hit to go stealth) and try again and again over an over. That thing of “if the thief lose he run away” don’t exist, the thief is going to keep fighting until you get bored and let them kill you or you has a lot more movement than him, or he commit suicide because a stupid move and die.

D/P spameble stealth without risk, without chance to counter it or prevent like D/D has, is just broken, annoying and frustrating to play against.

Forzani.2584:

urieldhynne.2743:

L2P according to the thief:

You should guessing where the enemy is, unleash your six sense. Because a enemy thief is like an NPC, you can “learn” their moves, because enemy thief does always the same moves, because he is mental deficiency. Feel it bro, feel they move, close your eyes and feel the KI around and HIT HARD.

Is because that nobody play a D/P thief, because is easy to fight against. Too much pro guessers.

L2G, learn to guess.

That is some good advice. I’m going to go watch Blood Sport with Van Damme. He was able to defend himself with his eyes closed. Maybe if I watch it a few more times I could gain the power needed !

That would be great! i suggest you to play some single player games with your eyes closed to learn how to feel the enemy and guess their moves! Be one with your computer bro.

Actually is hurting a lot my current matchup. The BLs are empty and the same for EBG the majority of time. I play in T3 matchup.

Is a good idea to cover the queue times, but… there is no more big queues since long long time ago. maybe only in t1 servers, and this is only 1 matchup. Good idea, but they need to regroup and remake some kind of wvw servers, 24 servers for the current global wvw population is just an illusion, i think they need to cut it to a half, because below T4 the wvw is pretty dead because the lack of ppl. Even in the last weeks is dead in t3.

frans.8092:

It’s part of the game, espionage, just as it’s an important part of warfare in the world. I doubt it’s an offence you can report on.

This is not a real war and this game is not the real world, this is a game with rules and mechanics.

Money for transfer shouldn’t be a advantage.

L2P according to the thief:

You should guessing where the enemy is, unleash your six sense. Because a enemy thief is like an NPC, you can “learn” their moves, because enemy thief does always the same moves, because he is mental deficiency. Feel it bro, feel they move, close your eyes and feel the KI around and HIT HARD.

Is because that nobody play a D/P thief, because is easy to fight against. Too much pro guessers.

L2G, learn to guess.

I max always vitality stacks (applied fortitude) first in all my characters. You get 2,5k health with 5 stacks.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Well the easiest thing to do is lay some cc when they use black powder. They are going to be leaping through it to get stealth, if they can’t make several leaps through it they will only have a few seconds of stealth and then be revealed for another few seconds.

You said you play a thief so you should know that it’s not like they are magically not there anymore, or have become invulnerable. Just because you can’t see them doesn’t mean you can’t hit them. All you need is aoe or a weapon that cleaves.

As i said before, hitting guessing where he is is not a real counter, is only try to predict where they are.

One or two times is ok, but with d/p spamming is pretty annoying try to avoid/absorb the constant tries of nuke you from the thief and if not killyou just disappear.

Yes, i have a thief and i know if i dont want to die, i dont die.

Jim Hunter.6821:

I didn’t even finish leveling my thief. Stealth is just something you need to learn how to fight against. If all you want is a punching bag to stand still and soak up hits then this games pve is perfect for you

Please, enlighten us how to fight against stealth WITHOUT hitting where you SUPPOSE the enemy is. Because that is not a real counter or “know how to play against” you can be a pro guessing where the thief is, the reality is if the thief has brain, and he can see you, he can know better than you where you will hit.

AOE damage is easy to dodge, still you need to guess where he is. CC is not a counter neither, a good thief have enough stunbreaker. Immobilize don’t stop shadowsteps.

Before you answer consider this: The enemy has cool down on his abilities (longer than you initiative regen), you only have CD on your utilities. And is true the initiative is not infinite but has a lot, a LOT of regen, and is YOUR choice when you use a skill, you don’t need to wait for CD if you use it. Is absolutely on your hands how you spend initiative without the CD limitation.

Jim Hunter.6821:

And yet there are tons of people who have no problem fighting them. all you have to do is play as one for a few weeks to understand how they work and you’ll stop getting your kitten handed to you.

half the people calling for a nerf seem to be under the impression that cooling is still keeping them invisible for the duration of the fight. They have weaknesses, learn them.

I have a thief at lvl80 full equipped and i only play it on wvw, I know how that works.

I have 5 different character and i know some classes has more or less problem vs stealth. Still a problem. Because they have a “free card” to not die without risk or punishment.

A lot of ppl haven’t problem vs stealth because that lot of ppl play with zerg only or 5+ groups. Any decent romaer know d/p thief is one of the most strongest roamers along with PU mesmer only because the insane amount of stealth. The problem is not only they are strong, which is fine, is HOW THEY ARE STRONG, stealth haven’t real counter, and you just can face a lot of enemies without risk, a good thief never die, they have enough blinds, evasions, shadowsteps and strunbreaker plus the infinite stealth, you only need to not blow up your initiative. The only counter for stealth is hitting where you “SUPPOSE” the enemy is. That is no real counter and is because that stealth need a rework. Not a nerf, a rework.

And that amount of survivability can be played wearing full zerker, almost without risk compared with another profession where using full glass canon has a big risk.

Jim Hunter.6821:

You all should learn to ask for them to buff up the classes with problems rather than nerf something that you have a hard time fighting against.

Stealth is not only op, is annoying, frustrating to play against, is low risk, high reward, stealth is so kitteng prone to exploit in the actual state, stealth is design for a pve, NOT EVEN REAL PVE, JUST casual pve. is pretty simple, is black or white, without any kind of complexity and without real counter, is just an spameable invisibility, is that simple like that.

Worthag.1362:

Another topic Stealth is overpowered and I cant resist post again.

Its L2P!!! Yeah of course you dont like to hear that. But its true.
My main is Thief(over 1400hrs). I was running D/P, but after Dec10 switch to D/D.
With D/D I have more burst, cause of Cloak and Dagger. I love it.

But my point is, I also made warrior and mesmer for roaming and I can kill, or force them to run, 9 of 10 thieves. Why? Cause I play one as my main. I have tricks like count/dodge etc.

I wont tell u my tricks, stop crying, make Thief for yourself and play him two weeks.

I am going to respect your opinion of “l2p” when you roam with a non-op class. And surely you run a PU mesmer too. And of course, i haven’t problem vs thief with my warrior, when i roam and there is a lot of thief i am forced to change to my warrior to continue roaming. Is not L2P, is counter with another broken class.

Even I have no problem with d/d thief, the problem is the d/p one, the constant reset of the fight in long term they win it, maybe after several tries.

That bs of “they run away” is a lie. No thief run away, they going to try over and over until win, they have nothing to lose, a well played d/p thief never die.

Kanenas.4906:

This one teaches us how to kill someone by avoiding damage, good one too!

The amount of ignorance in this thread is to much high and makes me sick! I’m outta here.

I am glad to share the same sickness, i am sick of thief lovers defending a broken mechanic as well.

Basically you want to have the ability to reset every fight when you are about to die, to try again over and over until win it? That is you want? because that is what happen with the stealth in current state. That is fair for you?

Oh i forget, i must “l2p” to counter it. Are you reading this post about how easy is instant stealth stunbreak away when you are about to die and you rely in blind hits to “try to counter” a stealth mechanic. How funny sir.

Is EBG 2.0

I don’t understand arenanet. they want to try to discourage massive zerging and they release content over and over to encourage massive zerging (scarlet invasion, queens event, etc…) What am i missing?

frans.8092:

On shortbow/pd? What interrupts?

I mean, you can actually kill warriors without abusing of stealth, you have plenty ways to avoid damage. If you haven’t the capability of spam stealth you will be fine, you only need to rely more in others mechanics and not only abuse of stealth.

Buzzcrave.6197:

If D/P is your main concern, why ask a nerf on stealth when the weapon set is the one abusing it. All other weapon set will not be able to abuse stealth like D/P, so why the kitten all of you keep on asking nerf on stealth that will kill other weapon set but not the one that is abusing the stealth which is D/P.

Dumb kittens.

Stealth is broken, is the WORST stealth mechanic in any mmo. Is just invisibility without CD and a lot of ways to get it.

D/P thief is the exploit of that (already) broken mechanic.

Stealth need a entire rework. If not, at least fix P5D2 combo. But the core problem is still stealth mechanic.

Frigid.6027:

Sanduskel.1850:

That’s just inaccurate. Permastealth thieves most definitely can kill enemies and get away from groups. If you don’t know, perhaps you should watch a few videos that others have posted.

If the thief is permastealthing, he is not leaving stealth. What happens when you attack someone from stealth? You get revealed.

Please share these videos of a thief never leaving stealth and killing people.

Seriously? This post has 5 pages of argument about stealth mechanic and you write this?

Viking Jorun.5413:

Valentin.2073:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Valentin.2073:

i’m really happy that this thread has become an eye-opener to the wvw community. these players have been abusing stealth far too long. they all know that but they refuse to admit it because they don’t like playing fair. i just hope that the dev’s will do something about this issue. it is clearly ruining the fun of a lot of people in wvw.

It’s nothing new. People have been complaining about stealth since beta. Learn to play. Trust me, you’ll find stealth thieves very easy to beat. I had trouble with them until I played one, now I know exactly what a thief is going to do when he goes into stealth and where he’ll be at exact moments in the fight.

dude, i can beat them both in pvp and wvw using all types of builds that a ranger can use. ranger is my main class and i know how to play him really well. i can play ele, necro, warrior, ranger, necro, mesmer and thief in pvp. i know that a thief can spam stealth using black powder + hearseeker. most thieves i see in wvw don’t even know how to time their elite skill because they are so absorbed in spamming stealths. thief is an easy class and everybody knows that. it is a class that you dont even need to study to learn its mechanics. please try playing a zerker ele, ranger, guardian or mesmer and compare their survivability to a zerker thief.

Please stop assuming one popular, easy to play build = the whole class. Not everyone plays the thief like that, and you overgeneralize too much in assuming that every thief is absorbed in keeping stealth up — any decent thief isn’t. I myself run a no-stealth mobility chasing and lockdown build, which doesn’t just do it’s job description. I can take on multiple opponents and best them relatively regularly without the crutch of stealth, and still get called a no-skill thief, when in reality the thief and elementalist are the only two classes which actually regularly utilize their combo fields and finishers mid-combat, to maximize the efficiency of their gameplay and beat multiple opponents. If you’re wasting your time with a bad perma stealthing thief who keeps running whenever their shank fails, leave it. They aren’t worth the effort.

Really though: don’t assume that every thief is bad. That’s insulting to players who actually do show skill in the class but are written off because of the majority.

Idk where you play, in my matchup the 40-50% of roamers are thief, and the 90% is D/P thief and spam stealth.

In my case i am not wasting my time fighting with thief, the problem is the fight occurs, if i lose, i die. But when i win they go to stealth and try again over and over until kill me. I can’t leave the combat, i CAN’T ignore them, i can’t run away. Every D/P thief is going to try no matter what until win. They have nothing to lose, no risk at all.

Dalent.9358:

So, now not only do we need Badges of Honor from WvW for a Legendary, but we also have to have a certain WvW rank for it? Why not just add PvP Rank in there too?

I get some people like WvW, but there is NOTHING fun about it in my eyes. I refused to care about Legendaries initially because of the need of Badges of Honor, but the achievement chest made that easier. Luckily I got my Gift of Battle long before this change, but now we’re dragging people into content they don’t want to be a part of even more than before.

Just get on EBG and follow the blue icon. Is like farming champions in pve but funnier.

I see worst force wvw players to run a lot of instances and do a lot of pve for map completion to get the legendary. A little of wvw dont gonna hurt you. The game is full of FORCED pve.

Julie Yann.5379:

All we can do is QQ the forums until it gets nerfed to the point where all thieves leave the game.

hopefully that happen. Because i am pretty sick of D/P thief, is all i see when i roaming, a lot of them, a lot, almost the 50% of roamers in my matchup.

If i lose, i die. And i need to WP. If they lose they permastealth, and try again until win. That is just annoying and have no sense to play against, i don’t understand if the currents devs play wvw how they explain why stealth work like that and they dont change it.

Kanenas.4906:

JakobGW.5730:

Kanenas.4906:

Could you please tell me how you remove conditions? With P/D and shortbow?
And do not say Pain Response, please. I wait some serious arguments from you.

Perhaps he could give us a link to a video of his play. That would help settle this little debate.

So, Jitters, up to that challenge? Let us watch you and let us decide for ourselves.

Come on man, the guy said that he never lost to a warrior, using as utilities shadow refuge, blinding powder, and skale venom!!!!! No stun braker! And killed them with poison, torment from venom and bleedings from short bow 2…..

I wander why people feel the need to make stories and post them at a game’s forum.

You actually can kill them, with interrupts, blinds and shadowsteps. Is about timing skills. That is why a lot of thief dont know how to play. They are pretty used to spam stealth and rely hardly on that and only on that to win.

I can’t do that with my thief, because i am not a good thief, but i saw a LOT of good thief doing it. And not abusing of stealth mechanic.

Jitters.9401:

Kanenas.4906:

Jitters.9401:

zip

So, you say you survive the current condition meta with only 2 condition removal skills (if traited)? One at 40 sec CD and the other at 60? Cool story bro.

That said I believe that the D/P set needs to brought down a bit. The blind finisher at 5 is not needed.

You need to not just l2p, but maybe a l2read as well. I primarily shortbow.

But seriously..

1)Just because you cannot understand how to play a style does not mean it is not viable. It means you need to l2p.

2) You have no idea what traits I use or my play style yet you make weak comments. I on the other hand know fully well your stealth play style and say it is op.

Smoooosh goes your post.

Thank You. Come Again.

Jitters, i fight a LOT of great thief who play as you said. Almost without stealth, they are pretty good timing skills, because when you haven’t CD on your abilities you can timing skills at your will. They are great duelist and win because they are better.

Obviously they can’t 1v5 like perma stealth thief. But really the only class capable of that is perma-stealth thief. Maybe a high damage build can shutdown 1 or 2, but he dies after that. A perma-stealth thief not.

I have a thief, in lvl80, i am not good with it because i play more my others characters, but i don’t play with perma stealth because is boring for me, but i feel i have a LOT of survivability only from dodges, evasions, dash, blinds and interrupts and 1 or 2 long cd stealths. Enough to go anywhere knowing i will going to survive if i want.

hihey.1075:

urieldhynne.2743:

hihey.1075:

This. I won a 1v4 with my Shatter Mesmer, once.
Nerf mesmers?

I win a lot of outnumbered fight with a lot of my characters. But because or i played better or they was so bad. But they can counter me. They can see me and they can actually do thing directly to me, not trying to guessing where i am.

The problem with stealth in this game is like “I CAN BACK IN TIME”

If something go wrong, i “hit the button” back in time, refill everything, a new start to try again over and over without leaving actually the fight! and i can do that EVERY TIME.

Is a PERMA UNDO ABILITY. That is the problem.

And stealth in this game is actually invisibility. There is no stealth skill here. There is invisibility.

I don’t see any problem actually. A warrior with GS has the same ability of resetting the fights at ease. A PU mesmer can do it too easily (if he has traveler runes and a bit of wit).

What I see here are people complaining that “we can’t kill a thief”. Why do you even have to kill him in the first place? Don’t you know that a thief will need to blow everyone of his utilities to chase people? Even if thieves have great mobility, they need to use everything to catch up with a fleeing opponent, and they will rarely do so if the opponent is at full health.

I have a warrior, a thief, not a mesmer. But i agree with you, warrior GS mobility is absurd. And PU mesmer too. We are talking about thief right now. Other broken mechanics dont make stealth right.

Is like “a lot of ppl steal! so is fine if i steal because another do it” no is not. Stealth is broken like PU mesmer, like GS mobility and a lot of others things.

PU mesmer cant reset a fight like a thief. Warrior GS yes but in a diferent way, they need to go far away for that.

I can win one fight vs a thief. Actually i have lets say 50/50 ratio. If you count win a fight when they use stealth to run away. Then they come back over and over, i can win again, maybe one more time, but later or early i am going to lose. After many tries i am going to lose one and that one is the dead for me, for the thief the dead is the shadow refuge or start spaming stealth. That is the diference.

hihey.1075:

This. I won a 1v4 with my Shatter Mesmer, once.
Nerf mesmers?

I win a lot of outnumbered fight with a lot of my characters. But because or i played better or they was so bad. But they can counter me. They can see me and they can actually do thing directly to me, not trying to guessing where i am.

The problem with stealth in this game is like “I CAN BACK IN TIME”

If something go wrong, i “hit the button” back in time, refill everything, a new start to try again over and over without leaving actually the fight! and i can do that EVERY TIME.

Is a PERMA UNDO ABILITY. That is the problem.

And stealth in this game is actually invisibility. There is no stealth skill here. There is invisibility.

frans.8092:

urieldhynne.2743:

frans.8092:

I invite you to make a thief and try roaming in Wvw and score some points for a couple of days, with S/P or P/P, or whatever stealth-less build you think works and then form your opinion.

I suggest the same for you.

I am leveling a ranger and plan to take her into Wvw. There are many videos of non-thieves doing 1vX, so you don’t have to wait for me.

Meanwhile, since you want to play the mirror game and I don’t claim class x is easy to play I suggest people who don’t play thieves shut up claiming it is easy to play a thief.

I have 5 classes in level 80 only for wvw. One of them is a thief.

You don’t understand that 1vx and “how counter need to work” i suggest to read the analysis Aegael.6938 did in page 2.

frans.8092:

I invite you to make a thief and try roaming in Wvw and score some points for a couple of days, with S/P or P/P, or whatever stealth-less build you think works and then form your opinion.

I suggest the same for you. Make any other class, build it FULL zerker and be free to do what you want, go to fight vs 3 or 5 enemies at same time and come back here to tell us what happened.

btw, i used to play a roaming p/p bow thief only because i enjoy that weapons sets and i haven’t problem with survivability, obliviously i haven’t the high survivability of perma-stealth, but i have enough. And i have plenty classes in lvl80 only for wvw to compare.

A lot of ppl against the stealth SPAM (no even stealth, the SPAM of it) give to you a lot of great arguments why stealth in current state is bad for the game.

You, stealth spammers lovers, really are like child. You cant accept it and your argument is “is the only way i have to play” that is NOT true.

You have PLENTY ways to evade damage, and you still have stealth, the problem is YOU SHOULDN’T SPAM IT.

1) Defense mechanic. You have blinds, evasions, mobility, interrupts. You said “i cant have all of it”, yes you can. You cant maybe in certain weapons combination, but guest what, that is like EVERY class. “But we are squishy” Guardian said “HI”, 11k healing pool without real mobility, yes some healing (no that much if you don’t build it), NO stealth, blocks but no evasions like thief and they have all CD abilities. “Oh but they are heavy armor”

2,147 Base Armor for soldiers.
2,000 Base Armor for adventurers
1,853 Base Armor for scholars.

147 more armor! BIG DEAL!!!! YOU NEED PERMA STEALTH BECAUSE YOU HAVE 147 LESS ARMOR!

You know what is the big difference? Other classes used to build defensive stats (like knight/cavalier/valkyrie) . You don’t, because you rely in perma stealth that allow you to build FULL zerker and had HIGH survivability. If you haven`t perma stealth maybe (i still think you still have enough defensive mechanic) you need to build defense and you lose some damage, LIKE EVERY CLASS!

2) Build diversity? There is a LOT of classes have no build diversity. That don’t give you the right to continue with spamfest stealth. With that logic give to “non-build diversity classes” some annoying mechanic to exploit.

3) Build armor and defenses, LIKE EVERY CLASS, or just go to kill or die, LIKE EVERY ZERKER CLASS. Seriously, and learn to timing you skills, again, you have no CD, if you don’t timing your skill you have no excuses, and is because you cant by reflexes or you waste your initiative to fast. CD limit you a lot. Thief can cast skills anytime if you don’t waste your energy like an idiot. If you have CD, when you use it you NEED TO WAIT.

You are the ONLY ONE CLASS who can fight vs 5 enemies and actually kill someone (maybe not pin him) without being killed, and maintain that fight for indefinite amount of time.

4) Stop comparing with warrior, warrior is broken as hell, or make a warrior if you see them too amazing compared with thief, because i prefer always a OP BROKEN warrior to fight against than a spamstealth thief, at least i can try to fight a warrior and the fight ends in a reasonable amount of time.

Thief is annoying, force you to play his game. You can escape, force you to fight even if you “defeat him” because they go to stealth, reset the fight and try it over and over, forcing you to “defeat” him over and over until the thief get bored or kill you.

I don’t even fight anymore, i just try to kill him one time, if they cast shadow refuge because “he lose” i just go away or let him kill me if he come back. I am just too sick of that kind of fights, i prefer respawn and don’t lose my time.

Valentin.2073:

thief might be the easiest class to play using a berserker amulet both in spvp and wvw. try playing a zerker ranger, ele, mesmer, necro, or guard and see how well you fare.

^ This, and complain a lot about the only source of survivability is perma stealth because they are squishy (and they build FULL zerker) when they have plenty skills to avoid damage (blinds, evasions, interrupts, stealth) without CD.

Liza.2758:

no point to take Cynz seriously

he has been defending his permastealth for an age now

Ps : they just need to adjust to the same in spvp … nothing more than that …

i like open field in wvw more than spvp but … class balance in spvp is way better than wvw.

I dont do spvp, what is the difference in stealth there besides they cant capture or hold a point?

Aegael.6938:

I don’t think the point is “nerf stealth,” it’s more akin to “rework thief.” It really depends on Anet’s design philosophy and whether or not they think the thief is in a good place. Many people find the thief unfun to fight. However, if Anet intended thieves to be extremely unfun to fight, then they it’s their game and we just have to find another game to play if we don’t like it……………>

<———————The idea is to keep the thief at the same power level but make him less cancerous to fight. And it’s not just the thief, I’d prefer every class was stripped of spammable invulns and stealth, and had them replaced with more interesting skills and mechanics.

Nice analysis. I agree with you in everything, but i don’t think remove the time stack from stealth is going to help, the main problem is in D/P #5/#2 combo in addition with all the others ways to stealth. And as you said, instant cast you cant interrupt.

Stealth in the current state is toxic for the game, unfun and frustrating to play against.

Something alike happen with PU mesmer, with the great amount of clones and stealth.

vincecontix.1264:

thiefs are weak and easy kill I am noob war and I faceroll almost all thiefs I run into.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPbG1TCNxVY l2p.

Stop advertise your awful video. That thiefs are pure noobs.

Nalia Ironstar.5470:

the Thief can go down quick if you can catch them. Being slippery is really the only defence.

I dont know the rest, but i am talking about PERMA stealth, no being slippery.

There is no risk at all, you can try anything and if you fail you just go to stealth all the time you need until you try it again.

Nalia Ironstar.5470:

To sum it up… learn to play better and/or change your build. WvW is not sPvP, so do not expect it to be. QQing about “______ class does ______ and it makes me mad” doesn’t fix the problem. The problem is you. Many other people have little, to no, problem killing Thieves. Even with all the stealth tricks. Try playing Thief more in WvW for yourself. You said you already know them in sPvP, so it shouldn’t be too much of a leap. To know a class is to know its weaknesses.

[/quote]

The same for perma stealth thief. Learn to play without PERMA stealth. You have blind, interrupts, evasions, mobility, and stealth. Why you need to rely ONLY in spam stealth every second? That is JUST annoying as hell. Is pretty frustrating even if you dont die, throw blind hits to the air for more than 5 min until the thief just get bored.

I have a thief, i dont play with it, but i leveled it up from level 2 to 80 in wvw only (i dont do pve), i know how and how much you can survive for that perma stealth and heavy evasion/mobility interrupts and blinds.

You can complain about a lot of others classes, and you might be right, i have a warrior, i play a lot my warrior and that class need a huge nerf. But this is not a warrior post. This is a perma stealth post.

mrmadhaze.8706:

My suggestion is remove thief class from the game becouse i can’t farm it when i run with my dear blobbyfarmingtrain. Since they can escape from me i can’t get the lootbag, and i cannot be forced to l2p just becouse if i’m in the zergtail i’m too “glassy” with my random zergy build, so why delete only d/p set when you can delete a whole class?
I like the breaindead metagame so pls devs delete thieves! so ppl like me can be strong enough while capturing a tower.

No!!!! : (

Leave the thief with perma stealth because some people need to have and abuse of a free-out-of-combat “cleartarget” card every time without CD or restrictions to try and try over and over the same spamfest d#2 and BS until they can kill someone in the middle 3 guys hitting at the air trying to hit a perma invisible (with high mobility) enemy and pin him while stealth. If not, i need to learn to play like every other class!! Imagine that! if the enemy actually can target me for more than a second! that going to be crazy!

….

tbh the best thiefs i fight against (a lot of duels and roaming) dont abuse or use permastealth, just timing theirs dodges, interrupts, evasions and blinds, they use stealth but no that much, a real good thief dont need perma steatlh to kill. The best thief i fight against dont even go to stealth. He was too good timing interrupts and blinds.

Satan Blaze.8237:

urieldhynne.2743:

lol, you didnt notice the condition damage and healing power haha, warrior is the preferred class of devs. We cant even talk about warriors.

btw. They need to remake/rework stealth mechanic. Buff the thief in another way. Stealth is just annoying and prone to exploit/abuse, this is a game, games are about fun, you cant design a mechanic too annoying because “is needed”, there are plenty ways to balance the thief survivability, stealth in current state is just a broken one.

They need to remake stealth, not nerf it, remake it. The entire mechanic, add detections and limit the amount of spam of it. And give to the thief the buff they need in compensation.

i somewhat agree with you, but think about it, remaking the entire mechanic is akin to remaking the entire class, hell, the thief was built around stealth, to remake stealth is to remake the thief i guess. the amount of work it would need will be huge, idk if anet is going to do that. and relating to the other posts above where thieves couldnt stealth during fights, im going to take WoW as an example, i was playing a rogue at the time i was playing rogue, i guess the reason why rogues couldnt stealth repeatedly during fights was because of an entirely different playstyle for the WoW rogue:
the rogue could fight any class toe to toe, even warriors, stealth was only needed as an opener, thieves here cant do this

Arenanet wouldn’t going to change anything. Maybe they will apply some minor nerf or detections (like hunters buff) but not too much. Is like you said, the whole class was built around stealth, that is the problem.

IMO, wow has a lot, far better stealth mechanic, the enemy actually can see you if you stay too close in front of him, and that is great, actually require skill by the thief for sneak around and positioning, you can stealth in combat but very limited, you need to play smart, sometimes i feel GW2 like a spamfest. But wow has another core mechanic, with trinity, etc.. Arenanet tried some different, for me with more bad points than good ones. But is my opinion. The most unbalanced point for me is the prone of this game to broken builds or exploits/spam some mechanics.

Another thing is thief used to build full zerkers (or almost full), and rely on permastealth, evasion etc… to have high survivability AND high damage. I know about a lot of class what if you build full zerker for high damage you have really low survivability and never can hold a fight vs 4 or 5 enemies like thief does. Thief dont used to build many defense because they “lose a lot of damage” well, is the same for everyone, you cant have everything, unless you play a warrior.

Satan Blaze.8237:

1st: the reason thieves dont use perma stealth in spvp is because: locations cant be capped in stealth and crit dmg isnt as high as in wvw ( about 125% max in wvw and ~60% in spvp)
2nd: no risk high reward? what? when a thief makes a mistake, he pays dearly for it, clearly u havent seen any thief miss anything and die because of it. how do u even kill thieves if they are no risk high reward then?
3rd: anet nerfs because of QQers like you are the reason that thieves have no build diversity and rely on perma stealth.
4th: i agree stealth can be annoying, im a thief and i fought against thieves like myself- perma stealth usual d/d build, however its a class mechanic and u cant just nerf or remove it like this.
5th: what about the other classes? look at the post above, his warrior has 2.6k power, 3.6k armor and 21k hp, WTF? we thieves have only about the same power but with 2k toughness and 12k hp.

lol, you didnt notice the condition damage and healing power haha, warrior is the preferred class of devs. We cant even talk about warriors.

btw. They need to remake/rework stealth mechanic. Buff the thief in another way. Stealth is just annoying and prone to exploit/abuse, this is a game, games are about fun, you cant design a mechanic too annoying because “is needed”, there are plenty ways to balance the thief survivability, stealth in current state is just a broken one.

They need to remake stealth, not nerf it, remake it. The entire mechanic, add detections and limit the amount of spam of it. And give to the thief the buff they need in compensation.

Karolis.4261:

urieldhynne.2743:

Valentin. Stealth is broken as hell, you don’t seen anything yet. You will see with the time.

All those players who said “learn to counter and blah blah blah”, they are all thief.

Is true thief need survivability because your low armor/health, the same as another classes, stealth (plus blinds, plus evasions, plus mobility, plus interrupts all of this spammeable) is just too much and too much annoying to fight against. You only can not kill a good thief, you cant leave the combat neither. You need to wait the infinite amounts of attempts the thief come over and over to try to one-shoot you, flee, reset everything and try again, over and over.

The fight need to end in a reasonable time. In every game, with a winner (alive/he continue playing) and loser (dead/unable to play for a x moment or need to restart). This is a game about run away and “morally” win a fight because your enemy fled. And that is so lame.

Welcome to GW2 real pvp, in wvw you will see how broken is this game, not only in stealth.

Oh we are talking again about 30/30/30/30/30 build with no cooldowns on weapon swaps, infinite initiative, 20 utility slots, full cleric gear and one shooting ppl. Tried that build, was too easy, felt kinda unfair… nerf plz.

Hi thief lover. No, you dont need 30 in every trait line to do that. You can do it with a common perma stealth D/P – X build. With 3 utilities and you can spam a lot with the current initiative pool and regen rate. And you can use blind, interrupts, mobility and perma stealth without waiting for CDs. Just don’t blow up your initiative spamming D#2 and learn to timing.

Valentin. Stealth is broken as hell, you don’t seen anything yet. You will see with the time.

All those players who said “learn to counter and blah blah blah”, they are all thief.

Is true thief need survivability because your low armor/health, the same as another classes, stealth (plus blinds, plus evasions, plus mobility, plus interrupts all of this spammeable) is just too much and too much annoying to fight against. You only can not kill a good thief, you cant leave the combat neither. You need to wait the infinite amounts of attempts the thief come over and over to try to one-shoot you, flee, reset everything and try again, over and over.

The fight need to end in a reasonable time. In every game, with a winner (alive/he continue playing) and loser (dead/unable to play for a x moment or need to restart). This is a game about run away and “morally” win a fight because your enemy fled. And that is so lame.

Welcome to GW2 real pvp, in wvw you will see how broken is this game, not only in stealth.

The real problem for me is the nerf to duration, 5s to 3s is 1500 less damage to me. I dont have problem to use it with LB, but only 3s in 10s CD. No, i don’t will pick it after the nerf.

And, if they move to master tier, what they going to move to grandmaster? If they move chill of death they force you to pick 30 points on spite when, if you dont want dhunnfire you only need to spend 20 points in spite. (if you need chill of death in your build)

I lose all my hope in devs. I feel like we are left to lucky in every change with every class but warrior.

This is the only game i ever played i have 5 endgame characters for adapt to the change.

This game is about broken build and hardcounter things, the rest is spamfest, no real skill needed. If you can adapt go for it (character/items), if not you gonna have a bad time.