Guild Wars 2

Having played both warrior and necro to lvl 80 i can say that no necro is not a breeze in pve all pve is pretty much easy anyway and warrior does it faster safer even against vets champions etc.

AOE is better on necro ?, yeah go make a warrior with GS and longbow and come say that again.

Also the cast time on necro is annoying like crazy if you know that all other classes have ½ sec cast time and necro is usely 3/4 or 1sec, aoe with epidemic is SLOWWW and require alot of setup + 1sec cast epidemic while on my warrior things just go poof their death.

spoj.9672:

Bweaty.9187:

Didn’t you see they fixed 1/3rd downed life for necros… As long as it’s a new necro, so simply re-roll and level/gear your toon again.

Yes thats fair….

To be fair in order for them to test it they would have to play necro and in order to do that they had to create a necro to test it, so in a way it makes sense that they thought it was fixed.

If server traffic is really the cause of bleed cap then how does a server keep track of might stacks with all the dmg stuff it changes, wouldnt it be better if the server was keeping track of each players individual’s bleed stack and limit might to 1 stack since condition is part of the main dmg type in the game and just allow each player to build their own 25 stack.

Anyway off topic there misleading title.

You dont actually need to make it like this but could keep 25 stack cap and say that condition removal can only remove X or XX amount from a stack like max 5 bleed max 5 confusion etc.

So hope necromancers reanimator fiinally gets removed, among the many many useless traits this one is just annoying like crazy.

Dont know what to say about this cause mostly it just seem’s their “looking at it”, its not like the game just came out and mobility vigor stealth invuln is key to survival how can they make necro good without making it overpowered if Death shroud is suppose to make up for so many many things. How can they make Death shroud work in wvw as tanking ability something like invulnerability without it being OP or are they gonna make a mechanic if lifeforce is depleting to fast it explodes into a 6666 radius knockback ?

Atleast they are aware of the slow cast and longer fight means lifeforce just empties and want us to have easier access to regen it? Perhaps they wanna make the class attrition.

edit almost forgot but how can it even be a disussion whether moa desummons minions or not ?

@Bhawb.7408

What? arent you kinda disagreeing with yourself?
Fine in high level pve → higher level fractals don’t really need what necros bring??? Which dungeon needs what necro’s bring anyway :<.

Your not holding your party back → slightly longer runs. Okay fair enough your not holding your team back your only slowing em down.

So Bhawb pretty much answered your question yes people would rather have other classes.

While i agree we need access to things like invuln, vigor etc. this way would make us OP, keep in mind they already seem to have balanced necro around our high hp + ekstra hp bad as it may be but having invuln ontop of this can only be bad for the overall balance.

Either they stick to their Attrition class and actually change ALOT to make it happen or make a new definition for the necro and build it around that but well not like they seem to care much at this point.

3 hours a day casual :/

Most necro players are happy? based on what? your ingame survey?

I could say most necro players are unhappy with the class because most i know stopped playing(untill better times) or rerolled.

So what your saying about power vs condition is that people shouldnt pick one they should pick the one and only HYBRID (nemesis one?).

Cant you back up your claims abit better.

Why is your necro so powerfull?
If your necro is so powerfull why do an instance take 25min – 17min = 8min longer?
Do vulnerability stacking justify the tiny dmg output while doing it?
If your stacking poision your not stacking vulnerability.
weakness isnt that great.
BOONS > DEBUFFS

Big question could you help your team better on another class ?

@natsos.3692
This “we are being very careful not to give them too much.” is what i 100% trust they can do.
Class is so badly designed they themself pretty much admit they dont dare touch it and know just how horrid this class design can get outta hand if they do indeed touch it.
Do anyone actually think they can make this class fun and balanced with the current high hp + death shroud hp? What if we had mobility , invulnerability , block , vigor , fury(proper) , stability (proper) we would be crazy.

So while a responce is great i still doubt anything they do is gonna help or barely do anything.

And how i hate people linking to old clips and traits when things looked fun, its always the same thought each time “WHAT HAPPEND ANET!!”

Agree with pretty much everything but in the end we still have to be balanced around that lame death shroud hp bar that seem to mess up this class from an actual fun viable class to something thats just lacking in everything.

Epidemic is still sorta cool, except 1sec is a long cast time and with the los change + long setup time with the condition stacking + somehow avoid em being cleansed before you get epidemic off then yeah its not really that great anymore for its required setup.

If we truly were an attrition class then maybe we wouldnt loose lf during a fight but get stronger as the battle goes on like they said but i guess someone thought the idea of highest base hp + more hp in death shroud was a great idea, what could possible go wrong!!

just wait for DS5 ability that lets us go into a third hp bar and then rebalance EVERY single skill for that, should be fun. <- its a bad idea anet dont do it!

Misleading title i thought you were telling us why not what others take is on lich form :<.

People may not like it but there is no other option, but lich form is abit Zzzz most of the time you just pop it to spam #1 (maybe the reason why its not autoattack by default is to make us actually do something when using it).

1on1 close gap, pop lich spam #1 collect bag, even in zergs it just lich spam 1 and possible 3.

Just cause we get weaker during a battle doesnt mean were not an attrition class.

amiavamp.9785, OmegaProject.9831 and what some of the others say sums it up pretty good.

There is no class mechanic as horrible as death shroud and im pretty sure if anet could go back in time they would have ditched the whole concept.
There simply is to many flaws in it and as people say the necro is balanced around this class mechanic unlike others who have their class mechanic as a strength ontop of their weapon skills utlities elites etc while we have to deal with slow casting utlities, insanely long cd’s on some skills, lack of invuln, block, mobility, short duration fury, stability(barely even have acces to this), No proper acces to endurance regen.
No proper teambuffing(some awesome necro debuffing would be prefered but this is boon wars).

It’s like they realised for death shroud to be fun it would need to be powerfull but to be powerfull it wouldnt be balanced, so they got the largest pile of ducktape before release and got necro into this no fun, lacking but sorta tpvp viable class that instead of going into this powerfull death shroud form you enter DuskTape form.

Perhaps just maybe they would need to sort out some things before even considering this.

Condition cap just lol at 12 man dungeon with the current system.
Some classes being pure bad in pve or lacking ALOT.
Shout warriorS GOGO!!

But i wouldnt mind seeing some sort of dungeon you could go to for guild events that could scale so nobody was left out, but like i said i would really hate it ALOT with the current issues.

Why is Death Shroud / plaqueform / lichform stomp still being suggested as solution to this?

The way to do the stomp can in no way by anyone be seen as proper use and is pretty much just exploiting untill the time ANET figures out how to remove the ability or give us a proper option to do this.

You cant res in Death shroud you cant stomp in Death shroud but hey if your skilled enough to hit the buttons at same time you can………….cmon please.

Necro have to many things that dont make sense and lack a ton of stuff that we cant really get because of horrible class ability that prevet us from having nice things.

@Vayne.8563 Who said anyting about speed? and part of fun is winning. To win why wouldnt you play the class that helps your group the most ( not specific speedruns ) but stuff like reflection vs harpies , portal, timewarp.

Would it be such a huge disaster if you join a group as a guardian warrior or mesmer and people actually asked you to swap to your necro, i dont know about you but i would defintly have more fun if i knew i was actually wanted as necro.

Lol at people with the idea that “if its doable with all classes its fine”.

@Katai.6240 Yes its doable but if people know he have a mesmer then give the group a reason as to why they would take a necro over a mesmer?

All classes must have something uniqe thats wanted in groups no matter settings tpvp / wvw / pve / dungeons etc, right now this isnt even close to how it works.

Lets say his guild is being all awesome and is fine with any class, all are happy except while playing his necro he still knows he could have helped the group better by swapping to his mesmer.

@Bas.7406 So you agree that necro is lacking in the reflection vigor block ?invulnerability?, or do Death shroud still make up for all that :>.

@spoj.9672 Somehow i doubt that will ever happen most/everything in pve seems designed for power dmg and condition dmg have so many many issues i get impression its one of those tings anet got no idea what to with.

If they made dungeons bosses need condition dmg to do well it would also mean those people would have to possible respec after if they do events where the bleed cap prevents that spec and power once again is king. <- rather annoying.

Im norn
“Dead again dead again”
“Dead again dead again”
“Dead again dead again”
“Dead again dead again”

Need to figure out a way to get greater mark while somehow avoiding the 5 trait.

You dont like your big wrestler sized lich form with great abs ? Well your not alone.

@DanH.5879 Your knowledge about this skill is spot on! clearly you must have alot of experience with it.

You just wave your scepter 2-3 times and spread the 25bleed stacks instantly and the loot bags are raining all over.

Anyway you should try it yourself, im sure it works as awesome as you say.

@Axiom.6490 All classes have different cast time underwater most is 50% faster. But yeah casttime on epidemic is bigger reason for it to fail / miss / spread nothing than being blocked.

Warrior one is super boring to be honest and very very simple and alot/most of the zerker warriors most likely specced to just have adrenaline at max for the passive bonus crit chance, dmg boost etc. so even less buttons to use.

Would say the coolest one is prolly engineer and elementist, the whole getting ekstra F1-4 skills on engi is great and the aoe heal rez is awesome in pve. And trait for condition removal on potion makes alot of the potion f1-4 even greater.

But agree that necro is the most terrible designed one along with the ekstra hp + base high hp. The skills is just forced upon all necro’s and there is no choice involved in how we want em to work like condition specced #1 and #4 does terrible dmg and #2 teleport you even though you might not want to.

wouldnt mind if DS 2 was given a 2nd skill that severed the bond so chill/bleed would apply but you wouldnt be teleported.

spoj.9672:

Stop being foolish. You pick a condition build knowing that your going to do poor object damage. I mentioned conditions ignoring toughness because thats a powerful feature conditions have to balance that they cant hurt objects. Think of it this way. Conditions are highly effective at killing things with alot of toughness over a moderate to long duration but pure damage is effective at killing glassier things and objects. You cant expect every build to be able to do everything effectively. Thats the sacrifice you make when you build a certain way. Its like asking a glass cannon build to be given way more tankyness.

Do you really wanna go into the whole condition dmg vs power?

So everytime a person decide to go pure condition dmg they know that.
1. Crit dmg have no effect.
2. Object take no condition dmg
3. there is a bleed cap of 25 making it very fun to use in events or dungeons with 1-2 other condition spec.
4. When you down a player with conditions they go poof.
5. Vulnerability dont affect condition dmg.
6. Many events that give dmg boost dont affect condition dmg.
7. Quickness makes you ram into bleed cap instantly.
8. Curses 25 doesnt affect condition dmg.

Im sorry but only benefit is to ignore toughness isnt enough and if your condition spec and have to take down things like burrows its a huge issue.

Outside of tpvp/spvp condition dmg have tons of issues and toughness isnt something power specs have trouble with and even if there were stuff like vuln helps to get around it, nothing helps condition get around the whole object / bleedcap / no scaling issues.

What exactly is movement disabling abilities ? Most our stuff hinders / slow down movement not disable.

But i guess dagger #3 and Rigor Mortiz ( bone fiend ) is enough to be multiple :<, does golem knockdown count ? or would that be more like a stun.

Oh well atleast other classes dont have access to multiple movement disabling abilities! right ?

kidbs.8920 And with the very low cooldown(wells) short channel time(DS4) it fits perfect since mobs only come in waves every 30-40sec+

Only thing i agree on is dagger auto is fast, which seems odd compared to pretty much everything else we got guess anet can fix it by making each dagger attack 3/4 sec to fit the necro theme better.

Life transfer 8-10k ? rightt not all mobs got negative toughness.

Nerf down our base hp to that of elementist / mesmer

Buff Death shroud hp thingy

Change death shroud to have more than F1,
F1 Power
F2 Condition
F3 Dmg mitigation
F4 Minion group hug, heals minions untill lifeforce is depleted in a cuddly hug animation.

And Full access to all utility skills while in death shroud for better combat flow.
All minion skills are now instant cast for better combat flow ( minons themself still have their cast time).

Our class mechanic should be fun and encouraged to use not this abomination it currently is.

Condition dmg have been a huge problem since release and there have been 0 changes about it even when it came to taggin people in wvw you ended up with nothing or world events same deal ( although its easier to tag now its a really bad fix ).

Oh well atleast they fixed it in super adventure box.

Bull Zooker.1672:

I use the dark armor trait in death magic. now im happy with our cast times. I think we take so long to csst our skills because if they land they are very punishing. for example a duel with a warrior. he pops his signet elite, we use spinal shivers. his elite was wasted and is now chilled leaving us free to poke at him with other abilities in relative safety.

I also think of dagger 2 as the ele water 2 (almost) equivalent. really helps to have some healing on ahigh dmg skill.

Dark armor only works with channel skills dagger #2 Axe #2 DS #4.

Not sure i would say wells have long cast time with their 1/4 but the fail to activate in wvw is annoying like crazy.

But yeah overall necro’s is the slow attrition class with long cooldowns.

uhh look lots of condition cmonn epidemic almost there … you can do it … oops to late target is dead :<.

Oh look that guy has almost full health and tons of conditions here we go!! casting…casting..wait what just happend to all the conditions…whats that epidemic ? you didnt spread anything but felt like taking your break anyway! well i hate you tyvm.

Gw2 cannot have no limit on aoe because Gw2 do not have any pure cc classes or easy ways to interrupt these aoe’s not to mention each and every class have access to these things.

If their excuse is based on server stress limit then they had some kitten good magicians for daoc servers, should think a single animist could blow up a server solo. But kitten did it feel good to have no aoe limit and the fun part of gathering xp in a group and the limit was to always push further and see how many more mobs you could pull each to the point me and our 2nd paladin went to seperate rooms to pull as many as we could run back put block on icewizards and BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK BAM all dead ahhh the good times.

@Mungrul.9358 Did play MAG PS3 (RAVEN) amazing game and ran so smooth even with all 256 players, vehicles etc. and the objectives were great fun.

Death shroud is defintly the thing that worried me the most when i started playing, no depth to it you get what you get and the ekstra hp buffer must mean balance for the class would make alot of things feel lackluster and they did.

Death shroud should be encourages to use no matter what spec you use it is our class mechanic. Its the same lame problem warriors have alot of their specs dont encourage players to use their class mechanic instead you have 2 adept traits that encourage you to do the opposite and just fill the adrenaline and ignore it because of the passive bonus it applies instead.

But yeah necro might be balanced strong / weak but also the most (for me atleast) unfun because of the insane amount of stuff that make no sense and a class mechanic that feels forced upon the class and remove any identity that the class could have had.

Wesnoth.1705:

Use Death magics first trait to have some extra 400 toughness while chanelling to make it as an effect than. Whining will not do any good here.

Casting time not Channel time.

Never liked aoe limits cause it doesnt feel like aoe then.

But i understand why its there, daoc worked great with aoe / pbaoe because you had some great cc classes to deal with these kind of things not to mention it was ALOT easier to interrupt casters. Aoe makes sense for chokepoints but in gw2 you dont have the cc to make a push, through these chokeponits so yeah the limit makes sense less fun but understandable.

Game does indeed look amazing and the details to the world is incredible.

But alot of classes are still underwhelming and still have tons of bugs.

Condition dmg vs Power continues to be a huge issue whether it be destroying objects, burst phases that boost your power like ice boss in fractal, quickness that rams you into cap instantly or events and the stack cap.

Bas.7406:

Oglaf.1074:

Bhawb.7408:

TheAgedGnome.7520:

Arghh. It seems pretty inane to fix a trait only partially.

You would rather they not fix anything until they can fix everything? It is completely a point of personal preference, (no one can really be right or wrong in this), but I will take a small fix over nothing.

The trait is still broken. I will not use a broken trait even if it is slightly less broken than before.

I don’t use it anymore. I like the 1200 range, but the fact that the CD doesn’t actually work makes it almost pointless since I would only use Focus 4 when up closer anyways for the regen.

focus 4 doesnt get 1200 range from the trait if you try it it just says “out of range” but yeah no point really using it at range where it doesnt bounce so meh cd is important.

Lets talk about signets passive effect and Death Shroud

Bhawb.7408:

@Skyro While I agree that in most builds we couldn’t completely heal to full all the time, it still isn’t an unrealistic scenario that a high life siphon build could heal itself quite well while in DS.

Also, what happens when you introduce another player into the equation, and they are running a healing support build? It wouldn’t be difficult for a support build to keep our health topped off, and it isn’t that difficult to use the right spectral/DS build to keep very high LF generation.

Understandable from a balance pov but in your case of another player using heal support it becomes insanely annoying for both, he cant heal you and you cant benefit from his support “while in death shroud” making it the most counterproductive class mechanic in the entire game.

And im sorry but aslong as to many things work this way this class deserve all the complaining it gets no matter if you can get it to seem barely viable it still doesnt deliver the fun its users deserve.

sacrifice all lifeforce to gain might fury vigor for 15sec 1 stack pr 20% lifeforce

You know its not that i dont understand the change but could they atleast have the curtesy of making its cast time like 50% faster?

Visionary.5681:

Banjal.7328:

Necros just need a 2h melee weapon and it will fix it.

With cleave and a gap closer!

Now we’re dreaming !

Jump underwater and BAM we got it ! leap , aoe pull , cleave.

Whats wrong with necro is the whole class design, way to many things dont mix together.

No healing in Death Shroud = no lifeleech, no regen , no friendly heals, tjeck out the trait lines and see how many we got for healing.

We have no access to skills such as Block , immunity, leap, cleave, projectile reflect, endurance regen, short cd stunbreaker. <- funny how Death shroud somehow makes up for all that.

minions except golem dont regen out of combat meaning 1% hp after fight = instant death next = cd starts at the minions death.
Minion ai ( ranged minions tend to work fine ).
Minions dont scale with any stat.

2 of our elites desummon our minions <- brilliant design choices right there.

No combofield/finisher on 3 of our 4 weaponsets.

scepter and condition / hybrid spec works ok but condition dmg in general still suffers from some major issues and in most/all? dungeons power is prefered over condtion .

But if you like a Slowcasting bad mobility no teamsupport but high hp including abnormal class mechanic then necro is for you.

mesmers can do their reflect on boss and grubs + they can use their aoe pull on grubs and with wells and stuff they should go down easily. <- wish necro had cool support utilites ohh well.

I run 30/25/0/0/15 axe/focus + staff or dagger dealing with grubs it can be easier with dagger since the staff without greater marks is abit lacking and powerbuild you most likely wont use epidemic, i tend to swap the staff dagger depending on where im going and what i have to do final part of fractal i feel staff is almost useless with all the reflect mobs while dagger axe is actually quite good.

Keeping max distance to boss and tapping sidestep left right left right can make the arrow miss alot although axe 600 range can be abit tricky.

Have to agree that dragons are no fun there is no fear involved and its just autoloot i mean its a DRAGON but there is no sense of danger.

Daoc was fun and really fun when the dragon went on patrol and a midgard xp group forgot it and POOF they all dead.

They really need to do something about axe training make it master trait remove dmg part add some aoe/cleave.

Fix focus trait its been broken for such a long time now.

add 5# skill to death shroud that sacrifice your real life for lifeforce

Did tier 3 bounty yesterday and another guild was running around finding the mobs aswell so we asked em to do it together since it would be easiest but was told “He would rather puke himself then do it together” so whatever we activated it and got em all down.

Anyway the problem i have with bounty is the whole find the bounty before actually having the bounty making us a bunch of creepy stalkers. Like a paparazzi waiting for the shoot.

just use condition dmg against him

:D

Necro
dmg = weaponskills + utlity skills
utility = weaponskills + utility skills

Others
dmg = weaponskills
utility = utility + weaponskills

Kinda feel its part of the necro problem along with death shroud being a very hard thing to balance.

And the Death shroud abilites still makes no sense #1 is powerbuild with no condition option, #2 is the only condition skill yet it teleports you so its maybe for dagger?, #3 is like the reason people use DS for interrupts, #4 is an ok aoe i guess although rather long channel and long cd (war longbow #3 does a greater job and is actually a blast finisher) .

I know that people make it work in different things and it can do content its just that so many many things make little to no sense at all and when ANET did their philosophies on what it was suppose to be it only made it worse.
From Dec. 14 patch.
Necro The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health

Lets say that having 30k hp is awesome but that would also require a good amount of healing power and lets assume people spec into the healing line for both heal power and vitality.

Now if you spec into healing you also get the lifesyphon and if you have power you also have the 5point heal from that, none of these things benefit you in death shroud making our class mechanic counter productive.

Anything related to healing doesnt work in death shroud all others work making our class mechanic one of the biggest counterproductive in the game. Guardian trying to heal you in death shroud ? too bad its GONE.

Could go on with lots of examples where necro have to deal with Death shroud being a disadvantage/annoyance. ( no stomp , no heals , no rez , no utility skills , bad ui not showing anything ).

Makes you wonder what they were talking about during the necro design and why these things seemed acceptable.

I play necro i went to wvw figured hey condition dmg is pretty much useless ( barely any tokens ), starts hitting on gate ohh right condition dmg is no good vs objects.

But i could spec power and i did and yeah its not that great on a necro no real ranged power option and staff 1 is so slow ppl outrun it or it just miss or get obstructed etc.

Culling issues.

So i put the wvw on hold untill i feel its worth draggin my necro to