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It needs to be gone. The issue is with matchmaking. For example, someone typically plays their main and does fairly well. For the daily they play a class they are not good at. They are then matched with people who are way better than them.
It is just a horrible example of the matchmaking system.
No, it’s worse than that. Because then the system thinks, “hey, this player is super good, they can carry these other guys not as good”. So they get marked as the good player on Team B and Team A gets a good player playing their normal class, and Team B has zero chance of success.
IIRC, the professions have different MMRs only slightly affected by a core MMR for the player. So they should not me matched the same as their main.
No, they have the capability to use profession-based MMR, they turned it off because people needed to be able to switch classes when the team balance was off. Which was, in turn, deemed necessary because of…. the profession dailies.
The problem is that whatever they are using to form teams and calculate “odds of victory” is complete garbage. Broken as hell, and we are all now seeing this in a measurable way for the first time.
haha, you still think this is supposed to make sense.
It’s been godawful this weekend. Worst I think it’s been in the albeit limited time I’ve played. Guessing they decided they’d do another “experiment” and not tell us.
I have to say I don’t think they implemented this change the way it was phrased. I finally saw my newly updated points from yesterday and it looks like I am either the same or maybe even -1 after going 6 and 5, losing most of those 5 to premades with 4 other solo queuers on my team. Why are we losing points for those matches we are obviously not favoured to win? I highly doubt my team was favoured when we get stomped 500-120 by a full team.
Because, boxes, this formula was always broken. The prediction of which team should win a match and what constitutes a balanced team once players have been found was quite possibly the most broken thing they have. And now we can see that for what it is.
Whatever the kitten you guys did on this it also completely screwed me over. Haven’t won a single kitten match all weekend. CONGRATS on kittening up both good players and bad players in a single move, then kittening leaving the office.
Should i even bother with inb4 you tell me again that having a series of 10 CLOSE losses is good enough?
Gonna keep spamming this concept, because it is important. Make a button on the in queue section that says “match me now”. If you hit that button, then the matchmaking system assumes it’s okay to put you in a match where you might be too underleveled or overleveled. If you do not hit that button, then it just will force you to wait and sit in queue until it has a group that it is confident will be a match for you.
But I’m sick and tired of queueing up, waiting an average amount of time to get thrown into a terrible match, then having to queue up AGAIN. I’d much rather have had that match time spent waiting for something better. And if there still isn’t something after 15 minutes? I’d sure as heck rather know that there’s nobody at my level playing pvp right now.
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There needs to be a button. One single button on the “currently queued” screen. And it needs to say “match me now”. And unless you hit that button, the game needs to sit and WAIT until it finds you a match that is actually decent. Anyone who hits that button, use the existing terrible shoehorn strategy. For people who hit a streak of five terrible matches, they can wait in queue for 15 minutes rather than spend that 15 minutes getting their kittens kicked.
Now I know why they stepped back on showing whether the game thought you would win/lose a match. BECAUSE IT IS CONSISTENTLY WRONG.
This should be fun, everyone watch, because all those games where you think, “there’s no possible way the game thought these matches would go well”, they definitely did. MMR HELL.
Better not have lost points for any of the last three matches you people put me in. kitten .
In theory MMR works quite well but can be difficult to implement in a team setting, a lot things can throw off the system. Although, even if the MMR system is working great there may be problems during the matchmaking itself depending on the players queued.
Too bad we absolutely have to have a team system, huh?
The players queued is the ENTIRE problem, though, IMHO. You should have an option as to how long you are okay to wait for a match. Because in order of things that make me hate this mode:
1. Long streak of losses when I have to wait longer than average
2. Long streak of losses when I have to wait average
3. Long streak of losses when I barely have to wait
4. Waiting over 10 minutes for a queue and getting matches that are competitive
At the very least, make it so I have an OPTION to wait until the system has found something that I have a chance in. Put a button that says “match me now” in, and if people want to hit that button, stick them with each other and leave me out. So sick of coming on to have a few matches and relax and just finding that I"m on team after team of horrible mismatches in terms of skill and profession. SO FREAKING SICK OF THAT.
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It needs to be gone. The issue is with matchmaking. For example, someone typically plays their main and does fairly well. For the daily they play a class they are not good at. They are then matched with people who are way better than them.
It is just a horrible example of the matchmaking system.
No, it’s worse than that. Because then the system thinks, “hey, this player is super good, they can carry these other guys not as good”. So they get marked as the good player on Team B, Team A gets a good player playing their normal class, meaning Team B has almost zero chance of success because they are horribly imbalanced from the start.
I’d say we need to enable the profession-based MMR, except whoops, it was turned off in part so people could switch because the system kept throwing together 3 rangers on a team on ranger day.
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Mostly just that it produces godawful matches more often than not if you aren’t high-mmr.
Thanks for writing up your concerns so succinctly.
This test season is intended to test an algorithm that’s tailored towards ranking players higher for better W/L ratios, in addition to using points gained from playing (meaning games played does not become valueless). The algorithm we’re using this time around is completely different than what was previously tested, and they both have different purposes. We’re already having internal discussions on how we can adjust this season’s algorithm to better suit the goals we stated on Thursday – rewarding players who play well, not just play. These discussions will continue into the next week, and now we have an entire weekend’s worth of data that we can look at and extrapolate on.
An important thing to keep in mind is that these events are tests, and the only thing we’re testing right now is the formula behind ranking. We’re gathering a lot of useful data that we can use to help us make better decisions. These “test seasons” not a final product by stretch of the imagination.
Serious question and not snarky, why do we have periods of no real leaderboard followed by test seasons? Couldn’t you be testing leaderboard changes like every other week?
This daily system is rly bad!
-ppl joining games , finishing daily and leaving before even game is overYou get no daily unless you win.
That’s another thing that would help. Get rid of the “win” requirement and just make it required that you play through a match. Then instead of 3 matches as a class that I can’t play and sends my MMR/win% into toilet, I can just do 1.
I don’t mind the daily too much, I just wish they would get rid of the ability to switch professions and enable class-based MMR that they currently just have turned off.
Is this something that you expect to ultimately be rolled into the delayed patch, or are the dates too far apart to justify it?
I feel like maybe Kiel has a point, the money being spent on defense spending is being hugely wasted. Not long after a humiliating defeat, our huge idea to defeat a dragon that we know has power over plant life is to send a fleet of airships made of WOOD?! That were immediately destroyed?! Heads should be rolling in Lions Arch right now.
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tl;dr that sucks
Replacing profession dailies with generic, always the same, “Play two unranked matches” and “Play one ranked match” would be much better. There’s enough variety in the other mode dailies that things will still stay fresh, and having those as dailies will encourage people to both play pvp and try to play pvp well.
Frankly, PvP is barren enough that there’s no reason to try and push people out of their comfort zones in PvP. It needs more players trying it, not pushing the existing players into alts.
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Just a note that since having 2 days (at least) of terrible loss records, the last couple days, I’ve actually had really good matches and several wins. So I guess just a fluke or maybe it takes awhile for MMR adjustments to kick in.
I remember at one point it was mentioned that maybe showing the initially predicted chances of winning with the end match results would be doable. That would be nice.
Last match I had was fine, if all losses went like that, I’d be thrilled. I would add that I had a personal score of 285 in that match, though, which might be the best one I’ve ever had. It was still a loss, though. And this was the match I got after losing throughout the entire day. It doesn’t feel like the pendulum is swinging back towards closer games.
Is my MMR where it should be or my matches? Am I just a player that doesn’t have other people at that level?
Another 6 losses in a row throughout the entire day across multiple classes. Maybe 7, I lose track.
Please take a look, Justin, it’s starting to just not be fun anymore.
Gaile, can you get them to send everyone 10 free gold with the new build? John Smith totally said it was cool with him.
words cannot begin to describe my love for justin.
On that note any chance you I could find out where I’m at mmr wise, been seeing some more higher level players and my games have been fantastically competitive and balanced think I may be in my sweet spot.
I’m the exact opposite of in my sweet spot, so I’d also like to get word on this.
Matches are still actually pretty unforgiving, at least in my case, I wouldn’t bother with it if losses bother you.
Seriously hoping Justin can look at my history today and tell me whether I’m right or wrong about my current MMR and teams I’m paired up with. It’s just been so weird/bad and soul-crushing lately.
I see plenty of people complain about long queue times, so I get that that is an issue for some people. I haven’t polled, but maybe the much better players in my matches have had to wait for far too long. Me personally, I usually have a queue wait of maybe a minute more than the average tops. So I’m guessing most of the time, I’m being served up as the chum for better players so they don’t have to wait longer.
I don’t agree with what Shiyo is saying, I definitely see people playing at all levels of experience and a lot of people who took breaks coming back. I myself stopped for about 6-7 months and came back last June. I’ll say that right now, the content in the game has slowed, so the people who aren’t diehard players are busying themselves with other stuff while they wait for more. Maybe that’s what you’re seeing.
I just mean specifically in PvP it seems like there’s no matching on skill level, it’s “throw a bunch of people together and then try to balance two teams”.
He was being generous when he said average.
That 43% win ratio…
If’n ya mean me, then yeah, I’m saying average when I mean mediocre so I don’t hurt my own feelings. Point remains valid, maybe even moreso. If I’m a mediocre player that constantly gets matched up with players that beat the crap out of me, I sort of feel like it makes sense that my w/l ratio is bad and getting worse.
I didn’t ever do PVP until after the matchmaking update hit, so I don’t really have a frame of reference for whether it was better before. I thought to myself, “yay, now they have a system to match up players so I won’t have to deal with playing against people that wipe the floor with me or dragging down my team”. Well, I was wrong, I suppose.
I guess it doesn’t really matter, I only play pvp for fun and to do the reward tracks, so I’m probably not going to quit. I just would like it if I could stop being put in the same match as a bunch of dragon ranks that know how to kill me in about 2 seconds.
Or maybe the problem is that the only people playing are the dragon ranks and there’s just not enough to pair people up evenly. In which case I guess there’s not much to be done.
Today’s dailies were mesmer and engineer winner. Both classes I’ve played many times and won with many times. I finally won on mesmer the fifth (sixth?) time, and have yet to win with engineer after about four matches. There’s more here than just l2p, there’s just seemingly no mechanism at all to correct/modify my mmr. If you get wiped three times in a row, it would seem to follow that the fourth time, you’d get put against an easier team.
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Not many average players that I see. If it’s possible to get paired up with average players, then please for the love of God, pair me up with them.
There’s newbies and there’s champion players. That’s pretty much all I ever see. When I started playing pvp, I didn’t have a fantastic record, but I could hold my own. And we had some decent matches. Now I’ve played and gotten to rank 49, all I ever get paired with are players way better than I am. Not sure why, but that’s just how it goes pretty much every session now. Once in a very blue moon, I’ll have a good match that is nice and close, but typically, it’s just all but over in about 2 minutes and I spend half the match getting obliterated.
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Don’t store the candy corn, convert them to cobs with Sondar the Seller in Lion’s Arch and sell those. You can get about half your gold back from a stack of bags if you actually sell back what you get.
I would like to throw my vote towards XMPP for group chats.
Same problem, usually in PvP, but that’s just because it’s my main activity lately, it’s actually been happening jsut about everywhere. Live in Florida and have Verizon FIOS.
Terrible lag in a PVP match in Foefire map on server IP 64.25.38.105 at about 6PM EST
GM Awesomeness (I lolled when I scrolled up just now to make sure I got your name right), I’m having lots of connection issues the last few days but not in EU. Should I send you a report with this subject line or use a different one?
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This is going on for me as well and has been for 3 days. FIOS, East Coast.
ANet, if you pay the requisite traffic ransom to FIOS, will they let game traffic through again?
I don’t understand the hate for this, I also think it’s a fun diversion. There are definitely problems. Most notably the problem of spawning into the middle of what essentially amount to opposing superteams because the top players switch to be on the same side at the beginning of the match. And of course the gameplay is a little wonky. That still doesn’t make it not fun, it just makes it wonky.
Good lord, I wonder how some people would have coped with old-fashioned 8-bit games if they think that Dragon Ball is buggy and imprecise to the point of being unplayable.
You’d still see it, this wouldn’t stop it, it would just make it possible for maps to lose 50% of the population instead of 90%
PvP forum expert, this would be a good first step as a representative, make sure they understand that this is a big problem.
Instead of the reward for completing the labyrinth tiers being increased damage against mordrem creatures, it should be that “Mordremoth’s influence is weakened” and the time until the next breach gets cut by a significant amount, even half.
If people know that they can just stay on the same map instance and have it be basically a 50-60% completed map WITH a ridiculously huge magic find boost, I think that breach hopping would stop or at least be much less of an issue for people who want to actually play through the Silverwastes map.
Throwing in my comments as well.
- Needs separate queue with separate rewards more like what you get from activities. Maybe not even accessible through Heart of the Mists, put an entrance in Lion’s Arch.
- If it is included in rotation, we NEED build templates. This would make people play courtyard and skyhammer more as well.
But if you put it in a rotation, it will die. People trying to play competitively will avoid it because they are built for conquest, people trying to play stronghold will be sad because they have to put up with the people constantly trying not to play it or who just leave as soon as it comes up.
Colin said it’s his favorite thing to do right now. Shouldn’t that alone be an indication that putting it in a rotation is a really bad idea?
John, did it ever happen that a new feature or game mechanic that was proposed internally by the dev team was vetoed by you because it would have too big of an impact on the economy?
50 Times a week, I am the destroyer of the designers intention to make people happy.
:-O more evil than mordremoth
LOLOL… It does seem like everyone seems to be simultaneously having completely opposite experiences. I think maybe class-based MMR might have a role also. A few matches by a champion mesmer trying to get daily on a class they aren’t great at or test a new build will knock them down to a level they shouldn’t be at.
Maybe there’s enough data in place to try turning class MMR back on?
To matchmaking is bad. Either that or it’s just 100% terrible this time in the afternoon. I’m getting matched SO quickly. With teams that completely devastate me. Why is a quick match considered good when it leads to just hating the experience?
Seriously, some sort of toggle switch between “match me quickly” and “match me by quality” would be nice. I don’t mind waiting if I don’t run around for 8 minutes dying constantly.
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Y’all know what’s going to happen is that this mini will be obtainable for like 15 cobs during the next Mad Kings Day, right? And there will be some other super rare item that is added.
Don’t mean to bump this thread, but it is still relevant at least for me, because I keep buying the stupid things.
Could we get some sort of account setting to say whether we preferred fast match or slow, even match?
Seriously, SLOW MATCHMAKING FOR PARTIES. I don’t care if I have to wait an extra 5 minutes, I don’t want more 500-0 matches. As it stands, we just waited in a 4-man party for like 2 minutes, then got totally wiped. Extra time waiting would have been more than welcome.
I didn’t get a screenshot, but I was shocked when the camera pulled back to reveal Chauncey Von Snuffles cleaning his paws at the scene of the crime. HE KNEW ALL ALONG.