Guild Wars 2

Regarding reflects and utilities, indeed they do not use weapon strength. This is obviously seen when you kill something with utilities or reflects; Arcane skills for ele count as sword, reflected projectiles count as rifle/pistol/bow/staff etc depending on the reflected skill; in these cases something else is being used as weapon strength and not your own. They still scale with your power/crit damage and have your crit chance however, i.e. having might and fury while you reflect does help, if in PuG for Arah p1, it would be faster if you solo’ed the Jotun boss than have tank/heal guardian reflecting.

- Arcane Power is really weak
- You are lacking a strong vigor source or sigil of energy to fuel dodges, typically you want at least one of either
- When mixing sets you want to maximise stats; crit damage items should be on shoulders, gloves, boots, accessories and maybe rings with the other pieces holding non-crit damage gear
- Boon Duration Runes are much better than Runes of the Fighter for various reasons; it overall gives you more might, fury, swiftness, protection, regen and vigor uptime which is alot stronger than the power/tough/1 stack of might on heal from rune of fighter.

Slightly lower power since I replaced Runes of the Fighter but it will overall prolong your might stacks.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAoYhEmkbwx5gjEAEFnYyoQHiCPUekzM2A-jUDBYLChkIAUBgpPKrZRCilhht6KalXBR9ATZSpWdCQpCyboIa1CBIYBA-w

Wukunlin.8461:

iirc phantasms’ power depend solely on traits

Phantasm damage is also dependant on the mesmer’s power and crit damage, they just do not inherit +damage modifiers from traits/runes/sigils except for the traits that specifically states for their damage. Gaining and losing Might stacks dynamically makes your phantasms deal more damage or less as you gain or lose them. Putting might on the phantasm itself is useless though.

Phantasms inherit your crit-chance but fury has to be applied on the phantasm, fury on mesmer does not make the phantasm crit more.

Illusions inherit your toughness but not your vitality.

Afaik they haven’t changed this one either:
Condis dealt by illusions deal damage based on your condi damage but cannot be extended by condi duration.

Zelyhn.8069:

Dub.1273:

Of course Conjures were buffed from 969 by 5% but that was unintentional and was patched right away.

Hm that’s not exactly what I understood: if I am not mistaken they were buffed quite some time ago, around the dragon bash patch. Then the 03/09 patch had a bug and they just fixed the bug.
I have not tested any of this however, so I could very well be wrong.

afaik it has always been 969 apart from the ascended update where it was higher shortly before they ‘fixed’ it.
The first recorded of conjure weapon strength value of 969 was back in December 10.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Conjure&oldid=458596

I didn’t check during the period after ascended weapon update but currently it is 969 like before after the nerf, so unless theres a tooltip bug, apart from eles and engineers who were shafted, are mesmers also now comparatively weaker?

Using a steady weapon vs a normal pvp weapon in Heart of the Mists indicate that phantasms do have their own weapon strength since non-phantasms skill deal massive lower damage as stated on the tooltip while phants just deal pretty much the same damage irrespective of weapon strength.

Tests against dummies in LA by summoning an iSwordsman in s/s then swapping to s/f to achieve a slightly lower weapon strength without impacting other stats showed no difference. However when the same experiment was done with using cleric vs zerker, a difference does occurs (phantasm damage scale according to stats dynamically rather than their stats being determined at the moment of casting, but not to weapon strength.)

So I was kittening around in hot-join with some friends with this build, abusing Arcane Resurrection’s lack of internal cool-down with Rune of Mercy to maintain a high upkeep with Shocking Aura to win zerg v zerg.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhEmmbyxzgjDAkHnYSJiHPMhElCyA-ToAgzCtIOSdk7IzRyjsHN+YiA

Then I realise it could be really strong in WvW.
In the simplest case, shocking aura + auramancer with in a mix of 4 or 5 D/D and D/F eles can up keep shocking aura permanently and be very devastating especially with abusing sigil of paralyzation. However, simply stacking 5 eles with the same build might be strong, but won’t be very efficient, e.g.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhEmmbyx4gjDAkHm4SJiHPYhElC5A-jkCBofBkWGgQAM9RZNLSQssuIasqaRWXDT7KpaYAA-w

My proposed setup:
Two D/F Eles: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAodhEmgbyx3gjDAkHnYSJCFP0QRhMzA-jkCBYgBk+AgQAM7RQM9RZtOqIas6aYaXJVDDQFLyA-w
Traited efficiently for lower CD on swirling winds and shock aura. Obby Flesh allows them to be most suited for reviving. Magnetic Wave replaces need for Cleansing Fire, Lightning Flash not needed since they don’t have to CE so they are better given Sig of Earth to catch fleeing targets. Not as much heal power pumped since lack of healing wave and evasive arcana.

Two D/D Eles:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhEmibyx5gjDAkHnYSJjCiUeMTO2A-j0CB4hBkWGgQAM5RZNLSQsMMIVXht8KaqaLqWXDTDDAA-w
Built for high endurance and party protection through auras + boon duration and evasive arcana.

S/D Fresh Air Ele:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJArYhEmIblxzgjFIkCoQowBMK0BiHWgDwhlCxAA-jECB0ygkFAJPKrZPCiFXFRjVXDT7aR1aYAA-w
Traited with steroids to finish off targets before they can flee since eles can’t chase nobody.

If you had 5 eles at your disposal, how would you build them?

Names copied from Gw1.

Fire:
4 – Flamewall replaced with Bed of Coals: 1 second burning damage coefficient of 0.1 per second like Flamewall, double effect against stationary foes. Circular 8 second duration fire field. Radius of 360. Can reuse the destroyer’s cracked earth animation.

Keeping the damage low but make it larger so it actually hits things. The conditional effect would reward comboing.

5 – Fire Shield replaced with Incendiary Bonds: Throw chains of fire at nearby foes. After 3 seconds, struck foes are inflicted with 3 seconds of immobilize and burning. Damage coefficient of 0.5 on hit and on end effect. Can reuse Lava Chain’s animations.

QoL CC to allow you to combo without Gale being the ONLY possible way of landing Dragon’s Tooth without having to resort to Signet of Earth and for use as an escape tool.

Water:
4 – Freezing Gust renamed to Winters Embrace, added functionality: now also inflicts 3 stacks of Torment for 10 seconds.

Adds abit of damage to make it feel more powerful and be more synergistic with Comet, that only dazes and not stuns and interact with Bed of Coals to create a do I stop or do I run situation.

Air:
4 – Swirling Winds – added functionality: now also causes knock-back on cast.

As much as I love swirling winds, it’s totally useless since rangers could simply swap to sword and mash your face so it needs abit more than purely projectile absorption.

5 – Gale – reverted the knock-down duration to 3 seconds.

Or they could standardize it with updraft an lower it’s CD to 40s, but the original 3 seconds knock-down was what made Gale distinct. With other proffessions having their stuns buffed to 3 sec, Warrior’s Skull Crack and Mesmer’s Sig of Domination, I don’t see why ele wasn’t treated with as much love.

Azunai.5974:

zencow.3651:

I’d prefer pistol main and/or offhand. More likely they would do pistol or rifle or mace or torch etc than the weapons we already have a conjure for.

Ahem

…Seen my rifle ele thread yet? ;D

Yup!

But rifle is too clunky, and I still wanna be able to RtL even in it’s horrendously nerfed state

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Why people hate zerkers ? It’s quite simple. People who do speedruns, post builds on forums, etc, advocate for full zerker builds cause it’s the most efficient atm.

Then, other people see this, and copy it, saying “Hey, XXX is using this build and stuff, i’ll do the same !” And then, you have two problems :

- First, some will advocate zerker gear like it was a religion, and treating other people like heretics for not using that gear.

- Second, to play full zerker, you need to be good enough to survive with it, and let’s face it, not every people using this stuff is. And they get down, and down, and down… Then, the rest of the community whine about those useless people who are looking at the ground most of the time…

Full zerker is great as long as you manage to survive with that gear. Not everyone is able to do that. As such, not everyone should use zerker.

Actually, even speedclearers have issues in a PuG. With zerkers, you need the whole party to be zerkers and doing big damage. In a PuG, when you ask for zerkers only and get pvt/cleric/bearbow rangers or simply if the warriors forget to FGJ because they are terrible, things won’t die in a timely manner when and you run out of defensive cooldowns/dodges.

From the casual tanky player’s perspective they are ‘carrying’ the zerkers and start feeling superior as the last to survive and having to rez everybody, when in fact, they are dragging the zerkers down.

AndrewSX.3794:

killahmayne.9518:

And other classes aren’t easy mode? Like thieves “spamming” stealth, guardians “spamming” boons, rangers “spamming” dodge on their sword, etc. Please, if you are going to complain or suggest a change at least come in here informed about the class mechanics.

Agreed.

I mean, Anet should make a sweep of all this kind of cheesing once at same time and for everybody.

Spamming mindlessy should never be the answer, in a pvp mode at least.

The thing is, warrior is the only class are strong enough to not have to spam.

Every other profession has spam. The meta build for every other profession is are reliant on spam either totally or to some small extent. S/D thieves, necroes marks, aoes and scepter auto, engies nades/bombs down to the lowest fresh air ele have to unload all their arcane utilities and kitchen sink to down someone.

^Arcane Power is only useful for abusing Elemental Surge. But even then it’s pretty weak since it procs every per individual hit instead of for every attack so is useless for PvE. In WvW/PvP you can’t cover your condis very well.

I’d prefer pistol main and/or offhand. More likely they would do pistol or rifle or mace or torch etc than the weapons we already have a conjure for.

Skyhammer is good for something, see?

Decrypter.1785:

May i add a question , while we have developers interacting in this thread ..

Q . How long after Gw1 launched did you add GvG,HoH,Arenas ? also when was it open region pvp with automated tourneys and observe modes ?

GvG was only introduced 1 year after GW1 launched and that was only with 1 map, Warriors Isle. HoH was always there and was where Tombs of the Primeval King was before getting relocated to the Battle Isles. Arenas never existed, rather there were separate arenas for different level groups at different places e.g. 1-10 at Ascalon and 1-15 at Shiverpeaks, once the game died down the closed most of the arenas and merged them into RA and TA. PvP item creation menu and inscriptions never existed and insignias were bound specifically to each armor skin so you had to gather the max weapons and the armor with the right stats and runes yourself in pve.

Red Falcon.8257:

Not in the current state.

Skills such as Earthshaker and Eviscerate are already too predictable and easily avoidable.
If this happens then bursts should land faster, instead of failing by design.
I.E. if I hit ES my char must jump here and now, instantly. Not 1-2 second later. Evis has a delay too, and range must be increased as well if adren should empty on fail.

This way bursts would be more player-skill-based and less “when my char feels like listening to my orders”.
Only then I’d agree to make them empty adrenaline.

It’s only going to get more predictable with the addition of casting windows :P
I do hope cast times get improved once that happens.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Half as often is still every 7-10 seconds. A lot of professions couldn’t get that sort of condi removal potential if they tried. Not to mention cleansing ire is already incredibly strong as it is, especially coupled with berserker’s stance. This sort of change also wouldn’t have any effect on cleansing ire’s passive effect either, although people just seem to constantly discount that.

As reasonable as that may sound, the condi-removal potential matters little compared to a moment where you NEED to cleanse. The hard 7-10 seconds cap means that when you really really need that cleanse, you only get a single chance to land that burst skill due to the recharge, and that would be much too hard for even experienced warriors since you become much much more predictable to blind/dodge/block, let alone those who seemed to be heavily object my ‘soft’ nerf. Too much of a nerf imo :P

mini.6018:

zencow.3651:

Thieves spamming stealth, Rangers spamming dodges and Guardians spamming boons all have a costs/risks associated

I LoLed.

Example of risk on thief.

Backstab nr1/blind = miss (still stealthed),backstab nr2 =blocked(still stealthed)backstab nr3= dodge(still stealthed)backstab nr4 = 10 k crit.Spam anotter stealth since all that time missing/blocking,evaded charged all your initiative to full.Yes seems to have a lot of risk involved.Risk of getting annoyed really fast.

Op credibility meter got lower after stating spamming anything,especially damage reduction,negation skills have (acording to him) risks involved.Like what please?Yopu get a insta death after your protection,evade,invulnerability,stealth,dodge ends ? / Facepalm

My suggestion that precisely addresses infinite-back-stab-till-it-lands can be found here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Mechanics-that-are-too-forgiving/first#post2836656

But to maintain stealth you do have to realise spamming Heartseeker through Black Powder is quite initiative extensive to maintain that stealth. In sPvP people are pretty much glad to face backstab thieves and Zerker Stance lets you sit D/P thieves down hard. In WvW if you’re bad you can always use Stealth Disruptor Traps.

Someone else also addresses the shortcomings of the guardian as an offtopic in that thread in a sPvP perspective. WvW isn’t balanced so between the effectiveness of Boon Duration runes and higher boon duration across many skills, protection and retaliation can be kept up permanently to create the tanky scum guardians that we see.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Well, one small alternative nerf would just be to make the burst skills share a cooldown. That way they can’t just whip out a different immediately one if this first one whiffs. That way, you couldn’t do something like earthshaker to catch up to someone, and then switch to mace-shield to do shield bash into skull crack, since skull crack would still be on cooldown for awhile. Of course, such a change wouldn’t matter as much for anyone using a greatsword since that burst skill is never used.

Removing the adrenaline bars on a whiffed burst would probably be too punishing. Adrenaline holding builds would be especially punished by such a thing.

Yeah that’s the alternative I also somewhat support but that would be a massive nerf that sends warrior right out of the condi meta since you’d only be to activate Cleansing Ire half as often.

Also I’d still prefer if Warriors were more committed instead of being a win-win situation in the adrenaline-hoarding perspective. If you’re using a burst skill you should be prepared to lose that adrenaline, not have it stay if it misses and think ‘Oh that’s okay, I’ll still benefit from regen/damage/crit’.

Phaeton.9582:

Why are people trying to make warrior easier to play, whilst removing some of the only counter play strategies condition classes have?

And after months of trying to make the community aware of CC warrior viability this thread made me lol

No cleasing ire proc on fail!

Chaosbroker.3860:

Not to mention both of the ones he has issues with are two of the easiest to counter.

All bursts are easy to avoid. Those two are the only ones that eventually hit you and leads into a long chain of hurt.

redslion.9675:

zencow.3651:

Currently, burst skills only go on recharge if the attack connects. If a burst skill is evaded/blocked or misses through blind or you misjudged the range, your adrenaline stays full.

Which is stupid since it makes dodging pretty much ineffective since you can just pretty much spam Earthshaker/Skull Crack until either hits after stability is down and one of the factors that’s making warriors easy mode.

Wait… are you sure we need even more buffs?XD

Whoever said I wanted Cleansing Ire to proc if it you missed? If you fail you fail. Warriors need to man up.

Turtle.4130:

I kitten all over a warrior who was using Hammer + Mace/Shield, just keep an energy sigil on one weapon for swaps and keep dodging Earthshaker with your infinite Endurance and using Shake it Off on Skullcrack, it’s hilariously easy to beat if you’re competent (Which you probably aren’t)

Yeah cause a single Warrior vs Warrior fight in WvW is a great reflection on game balance. WvW is so skillful and fun and balanced and this game totally revolves around WvW.

We should all stop sPvPing and go to WvW where we can weapon-swap whenever we want and take skills like Shake it Off and eat Roasted Lotus Roots and never worry about being stunlocked.

Please keep your “I want warrior to stay ez to play” comments here,
Less whiny arguements can be found here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Mechanics-that-are-too-forgiving/first#post2836656

PS: I try to hate every profession equally. Have nice day.

By far the most daunting thing is every other classes have had their aoe buffed by now, Rangers got bigger traps, Guardians got bigger symbols, Necs got bigger marks and Engineers now getting bigger bombs. Yet Lava Font remains so tiny…

Their reverting of Unsteady Ground to a prior version (it used to be like line of warding ages ago before they decided they wanted guardians to be special and superior) makes me really hopeful though, rarely do you see Anet reverting nerfs since they mostly prefer to go lala and make changes elsewhere and kitten things up more. I really hope they revert Lava Font too to starts proccing immediately like it used to, like symbols and marks do.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

zencow.3651:

Amaterasu.6280:

You guys make it seem like backstab thieves are what’s causing this horrible meta -_- backstab thieves are the least of your concerns right now. Even s/d thieves are way more threatening.

If you play a thief you should know how to counter one.

Amir.1570:

@zencow

Do you know how biased you sound? You did NOT include being able to have indefinite evade frames and you also did not include being able to use more than one stun break as brainless mechanics.

Rethink your topic please and include these. Don’t include these and all your thread does is a cry for nerfs on classes you don’t even play.

It’s brainless but it’s punishable.

S/D thieves aren’t as OP as people cry. The evade frame is only Flanking Strike, after which the thief is vulnerable to a stun/fear/whatever before he lands Larcenous Strike. Larcenous Strike is also pretty easy to dodge.

It takes abit more skill to use S/D properly without getting destroyed compared to D/P blind spam.

I’ll rethink about adding them to my OP but as it stands it’s not brainlessly effective enough and I can’t think of any solutions that would turn them from overpowered to useless instantly.

What are you even saying? S/D has tons of evade frames, and amazing disengage. S/D thieves can over commit, and immediately back off with the amount of disengage they have. It does not take more skill because its just dodge spam. Compared to D/P, enemy players actually have to STAND in your Black Powder (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder), or use Shadow Shots to blind big hits.

For both these builds you still do have to watch animations, but for S/D is much, MUCH more forgiving because your endurance bar (and initiative) feels nearly infinite.

But imo the OPness isn’t due to S/D inherently. It’s the combination of cheap initiative costs, traits and synergy with withdraw and RFI that let you spam 3 and Infiltrator/Shadow Return whenever you want. I just don’t see how you would nerf it in a way that would make the offending build weaker without severly crippling S/D when not used in a spam spam context and make it infinitely more worthless than D/P as it use to be.

Mrbig.8019:

O_o

S/D thief brings:

High sustain damage
Good 1vs1 capabilities
Strong disangage even without CDs
Ridicolous Mobility
Great condi cleansing
Decent Burst
AoE cleave

D/P offers
High burst
Good disangage when CDs are there
Decent sustained damage
Decent mobility
Mediocre 1vs1 capabilities
Decent condi cleansing
Blinds

And you talk about D/P being OP ?

I play S/D and i would really BEG to have S/D to be skillful like it was before, or like D/P actually is ( and always have been, but it’s still a boring set)

Now you can EFFECTIVELY spam 3 and be a lot more effective than you should.

This without accounting how ridicolously OP Inf Strike is.

S/D thief is too forgiving, the whole sword set is too forgiving: if you play bad, you simply port away, cleanse/heal then come back 4-5 secs later.

I want my class to be good and to require skill, yet the misinformation and bad feedback is astounishing, and this is clearly an example of it.

I’m not saying D/P is more OP than S/D, I’m providing reasons why S/D shouldn’t get too overly nerfed, especially due to it’s OPness only being mainly because it counters the condi/spam meta so well and it’s boon suction is getting nerfed soon too.

zencow.3651:

I can’t think of any solutions that would turn them from overpowered to useless instantly.

So your suggestions? Your feedback is not anymore helpful if you simply rant. As much as I like how skillful S/D use to be, being about to smash a thief in the face while he is stuck in Larcenous Strike part of the animation is not skillful for the opponent now is it?

Amaterasu.6280:

You guys make it seem like backstab thieves are what’s causing this horrible meta -_- backstab thieves are the least of your concerns right now. Even s/d thieves are way more threatening.

If you play a thief you should know how to counter one.

Amir.1570:

@zencow

Do you know how biased you sound? You did NOT include being able to have indefinite evade frames and you also did not include being able to use more than one stun break as brainless mechanics.

Rethink your topic please and include these. Don’t include these and all your thread does is a cry for nerfs on classes you don’t even play.

It’s brainless but it’s punishable.

S/D thieves aren’t as OP as people cry. The evade frame is only Flanking Strike, after which the thief is vulnerable to a stun/fear/whatever before he lands Larcenous Strike. Larcenous Strike is also pretty easy to dodge.

It takes abit more skill to use S/D properly without getting destroyed compared to D/P blind spam.

I’ll rethink about adding them to my OP but as it stands it’s not brainlessly effective enough and I can’t think of any solutions that would turn them from overpowered to useless instantly.

Kharr.5746:

I lol’d at the bold text there. Between the slow cast time and the aftercast, Earthshaker isn’t much (if at all) faster than running.

I know it sounds ridiculous, but when I’m chasing people around in Hot-join or WvW when stuck in combat with Hammer/Mace or Hammer/Longbow, it certainly doesn’t feel that way. Cancelling Earthshaker by weapon-swapping before it touches down removes the aftercast too but then you could only Earthshaker every 10 seconds. Depends on how far the target is really.

Have also been on the receiving end too as an ele. I couldn’t get away with the nerfed RtL even with Lightning Flash as the warrior eventually caught up with Earthshaker. Sad but true.

I mostly agree with Leuca. Though I don’t really mind the blind spam since if the blind disappears then you know you hit the thief but I do mind that Eles are much worse at detecting stealth since their auto attacks aren’t chain-based so it’s impossible to know if you’re hitting a thief or not. Some audio effect when you hit a stealthed target would be nice imo.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Search forums history. This one has already been addressed 10 months ago.

I didn’t know what to search for, care to link a few threads?

wildfang.9670:

zencow.3651:

Currently, burst skills only go on recharge if the attack connects. If a burst skill is evaded/blocked or misses through blind or you misjudged the range, your adrenaline stays full.

Which is stupid since it makes dodging pretty much ineffective since you can just pretty much spam Earthshaker/Skull Crack until either hits after stability is down and one of the factors that’s making warriors easy mode.

yes we op warrior can spam the might skull crack and the mighty earthshaker if it misses we just have to wait 10 seconds for our skills to recharge!!

It’s 10 seconds for each set. It basically forces the opponent to dodge/use a counter CC/stun break TWICE EVERY 10 SECONDS just to avoid the Skullcrack & Earth Shaker, apart from which there are several other stuns that could be chained back into the burst skill once it’s recharged. Actual recharge is 8.5 seconds with 20 Discipline or under with higher Discipline.

Notable exploits are spamming Earth Shaker on recharge as a mobility skill between cap points and comboing Combustive Shot into Earth Shaker/Flurry etc before the arrow lands, not a particularly strong combo but being able to double Burst Skill with the same adrenaline bar is mechanically very broken.

Problem: Currently there are certain mechanics that are too forgiving and thus could be abused. By making changes we can get rid of these exploit-like tactics and create more skilful play.

Warrior:
Currently, burst skills only go on recharge if the attack connects. If a burst skill is evaded/blocked or misses through blind or you misjudged the range, your adrenaline stays full.

Which is stupid since it makes dodging pretty much ineffective since you can just pretty much spam Earthshaker/Skull Crack until either hits after stability is down and one of the factors that’s making warriors easy mode. You can pretty much stun a target every 5 seconds with Earth Shaker or Skull crack which ever hits and the opponent won’t be able to avoid it.

It also allows Hammer/Mace warriors to use Earthshaker as a mobility tool as long as they don’t hit anything and overall this mobility is even better than the ele’s.

Solutions: Make burst skills expend adrenaline regardless of success + No cleansing ire proc on fail/ Make burst skills share a cooldown between weapon sets.

Thief:
Similar to above, a you can simply spam stealth and a Sneak Attack i.e. Backstab until it hits since you are not revealed if the attack misses or gets dodged or blocked.

Solution: Allow Thieves to execute only one Sneak Attack per stealth application/ Make the Revealed debuff apply regardless of whether an attack from stealth hits or not.

Mesmer:
Currently Shatter skills only go on recharge when they produce an effect, i.e. if you have no illusions up and are not taking Illusionary Persona, the shatter skill is recharged instantly bar global cooldown on shatter.

Solution: Make shatters go on full recharge. This will force mesmers to be more aware of their illusions as they go down.

The full cool-down does little to inhibit you from weapon swapping. Does not matter if Skull Crack gets dodged since you can just Earthshaker IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS.

It also lends itself to be an exploit-like way of using Earthshaker is as a mobility tool.

What I would also agree with is a global cool-down on bursts so they are not just weapon based so weapon swapping doesn’t just effectively let you stun someone every 5 seconds with no way to counter.

Thieves spamming stealth, Rangers spamming dodges and Guardians spamming boons all have a costs/risks associated. If you played any of those classes you’d know spamming stealth costs initiative, the ranger dodges have only a small window of evade and guardians don’t maintain boons up for very long due to nerfs since ages ago. What I would agree on changing the thief stealth mechanic making so they get the revealed debuff if their attack from stealth gets blocked/missed/dodged so they can’t just spam backstab till it hits similar to my proposed adrenal change. Similarly Mesmer shatters should go on full CD if they shatter without Illusionary Persona or any illusions up due to kitten ness or because their illusions just got wiped, either way bad play should be punished.

No cooldown and adrenaline based bursts only? Hell no, Skull Crack target to death is not any more skillful. If using a burst skill puts a global cooldown before you can regain adrenaline then sure.

Are you guys really defending bad play?
I think I’ll post in the sPvP section since you’re all obviously terrible warrior fanbois.

Mistro.3059:

One game design example to back the Dev’s reasoning is the Rogue Combo Point/Energy system and Death Knight Runic Power system in WoW, which can refund (either all or partially) those class mechanic resources in the event that an attack does not connect, it just places that attack on cooldown or activates the global cooldown on that ability.

Riiiiight so this is where they got the idea from. Back in Gw1 adrenaline was separate for each individual skill and had a cut-throat nature of, even if you self-cancelled them using escape. Some skills had a adrenaline cooldown on them so you couldn’t create a perma Stun loop. Overall it was much less forgiving to play warrior in Gw1.

Currently, burst skills only go on recharge if the attack connects. If a burst skill is evaded/blocked or misses through blind or you misjudged the range, your adrenaline stays full.

Which is stupid since it makes dodging pretty much ineffective since you can just pretty much spam Earthshaker/Skull Crack until either hits after stability is down and one of the factors that’s making warriors easy mode.

Edit: No Cleasing Ire proc on fail

FrownyClown.8402:

You stopped watching because of that? And Zen, I use burning speed as a gap closer so i can land drake’s breath. You can choose to not comment and move on. I for one probably have more success as an ele then you ever will.

Hey, that was pretty far into the video. When using it as a gap closer it’s pretty impossible to miss. And I didn’t even mind the misses on the guard since he was trying to melee you. What I meant was:

And yes, you are obviously so experienced you know RtL → Updraft works against a target moving away from you.

When I watch gameplay videos I expect exceptional play that require skill, not rookie errors and skill spamming.

Pump fire and take Lava Tomb! The dev’s gave the eles the best downed trait of all the professions so you might as well you it. /cynicism

Stopped watching after the third not dodged/blinded yet missed Burning Speed.

ele → mes → guard → warrior → ranger → necro → thief for me. I still play ele the most cause I’m a masochist.

Yeaaaaaaah. Not much damage really done with condis apart from the RNG Rune of Perplexity procs ?

Foefaller.1082:

Did you know a necro, with the right traits, can easly put 25 stacks of might on themselves and 25 stacks of vulnerability on thier target in about 5 button presses? It’s a Death Shroud build, but don’t think that a smart necro wouldn’t be able to refill his or her life force by the time the other cooldowns have reseted.

Except in my experience most power necroes just sit on Axe/X all day and never switch to Dagger or even Death Shroud.

And self might is inefficient, either party might or don’t bother traiting for it.

Nikkinella.8254:

I’ve actually found runes of vampirism to work very well. boosts your crappily low power a bit and the lifesteal and extra mistform doesn’t hurt either.

Isn’t the bug still there though? Ooo and does the mist form trait work with it? I’ve never tried.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Vampirism

SalvinValkyries.4501:

Speaking of liabilities, a player is also a liability if he/she is spending half of their time in a downed state.

As for Daphoenix’s builds, you may to want to check his website. He does not single out WvW as the only place for Celestial stats. At last glance, his optimal builds for both WvW and PvE revolve around celestial builds. Unless of course he is secretly lying to us about his calculations and his builds. Not impossible but unlikely.

For getting downed, that’s entirely a L2P issue. A player is more of a liability if he stays alive yet does negligible amount of damage than if he gets downed occasionally then rallies since the target dies quickly after.

He is not lying, he just generalizes PvE as easy and like most WvWers deem PvE content can be done with WvW builds. True in a way but it’s far from optimal. No one runs Lemon Grass in PvE. And afaik, he doesn’t run dungeons/have as much as Neko in that department.

As far as I’m concerned, when people are asking for builds, they are asking for the optimal. You could finish dungeons in 1-2 hours all you want and debate whether that makes you skillful or a liability or not, but that could be done with any build. It’s much more time efficient to have a preference for the optimal build especially with the increased demands in grinding asked of us by Anet.

I find 30/30/x/x/x quite a poor investment. I struggle to maintain burning for Ember’s might and Fire 25 so overall much prefer Stone Splinters + Vital Striking to going balls deep into fire.

Even hardcore pve calls for 0/25/25/20/0 and doesn’t pump Fire since the +damage trait steroids heavily outweigh the gain in power.

I’ve tried everything and it’s just not possible if the target is competent. The Hammer/Mace is just too much CC and the healing sig is just too healy and Cleasing Ire/Zerker Stance is just anti-Sigil of Doom poison or pathetic attempts at applying weakness/cripple with signet of RNG. You don’t even dent them with Zerker gear since they have such high toughness with Valkyrie yet they do Zerker damage on you while you’re stunned. And in hot-join you can’t even run away if they are Mace/GS or Hammer/LB.

Is there a secret way to beat them unassisted that I’m unaware of?

I am die-hard S/D 0/30/15/15/10 Zerker. I need my Earthquake/Updraft to triple hit Phoenix every time vs Gale’s once every 50 seconds. Dat Phoenix kill feel.

Not sure what you are aiming for, PvE or WvW?

For WvW roaming take either Scholar Runes for burst or 2xTraveler, 2xMonk, 2xWater for boon duration.
For PvE you want zerker armor with Scholar Runes if you run with competent people who can contribute to might/fury stacks but otherwise the boon duration runes are better if you mainly pug and the swiftness duration boost is nice for running to champions/events in time.

Tbh Fresh Air ele is quite strong in spvp.

Compared to a thief you are less effective at killing someone and are less likely to survive, and probably can never win a decent opponent in 1v1 but the trade-off is you are better at killing downed targets and you can potentially down a ganged up target faster than a thief can.

So in a way the devs are correct to some extent and I’d be happy if they nerfed the op profession down. Though they’re probably never going to nerf warriors anytime soon, since high damage, high survivability, high mobility, lots of hard CC and condition immunity between Zerker Stance, Sig of Stamina and Cleasing Ire without ways to counter them is clearly the way warriors should be as intended.

SalvinValkyries.4501:

Celestial is far from being the “worst sets you can have.” Before committing to something, I’d suggest scouring the forums for a few more threads/posts. There are quite a few Elementalist experts on deck, at least enough to give you a better shot at fine tuning your preferences. Daphoenix and Neko are just a few that come to mind.

Good luck!

Daphoenix’s recommendation with celestial is for WvW, not what the OP is asking for.
In Neko’s guide, he recommends zerker gear like the rest of the dungeon community.

In dungeons/fractals you should really get used to using full zerker’s so you’re not a liability to the team, most would also tell you to forgo PVT altogether so you don’t develop bad habits and learn faster if you jump right into zerker gear. Despite what people may say, in normal dungeons as long as you are dodging the major hits. In open world, you can simply tag things with auto-attack and gear doesn’t matter as long as you’re in a party. Full zerker’s + Dagger Mainhand’s Lightning Whip is your best bet at tagging mobs if zerging pve events solo.

According to pugs, they don’t have to bring projectile reflect/absorb/any suggested weapon/utility changes if it’s ‘not part of their build’.

AntiGw.9367:

Chuo.4238:

They oughta just delete the Leader Boards…

Or even better, people should simply get their priorities in life straight…

That’s what I did. I was top 100 ages back then I my life changed so I couldn’t play as much. I made the suggestion to turn dailies into weeklies instead to give people the option to do it in one sitting instead of having login every. single. day. Just to do some mindlessly easy things instead of enjoying myself in dungeons/other content. But no, the broader audience of GW2 likes their F2P-like dailies model so my Anet points will have to endure.

AFAIK Anet always miscounts their zeroes judging from the 21 karma weapons ages ago and the recent 1000% bonus glory from birthday boosts. Since they said they intended to BUFF karma consumables while removing it’s ability to be modified by karma boosts, I think it’s meant to be 6000 karma from a jug rather than 5000 but this time Anet messed up and missed out a 0 so it’s 600 instead, hold onto them until it’s fixed?

use the 75 fractal relic infusion and see?

if sigil doesn’t disappear I don’t see why infusion should

Bright.9160:

I really like #2 though, although I’d much rather see it with only the explorable modes. Every dungeon has at least 1 path that PUGs hate to do (except maybe CoE), which would encourage people to at least do the hard paths in order to get extra rewards.

If they implemented that, and included story mode that you had to complete, they’d have to make all the storymodes less stupidly long.

All paths of CM are easy too and the story mode is the shortest of them all. p2 Kegway just isn’t popular for some reason despite it being faster than the other two.

Gburzak.7035:

No brainer here, yours looks much better than the new one.

Yep. And that guardian’s staring at you in envy :P