Guild Wars 2

And PvE is not a long term plan in the market today, people may be come and play the new content for freshness, but if you can’t continue to offer enough new content (new 3D model, new map ,new story, new enemy, new reward , new raid …… there are too many thing , too many resources ) peoples will leave the game like HoT. May be Anet still keep working on this situation is fine, but i have waited for 2 year, this time i don’t want to join again.

So I don’t pay for it this time, even if PoF haven’t powercreep problem (LOL,do you think this is possible?) but HoT powercreep effect still here and haven’t any improve. You can look at condi for example, Condi system still have no any improve/change since pre HoT come out.

This is just simple, if 1 ppl have 2 sec CC, then 2 ppls have 4 sec, … 5 ppls have 10 sec. That’s why WoW put diminish in CC.
GW2 want to make something different from WoW, they use 1sec, 0.5sec short CC to replace diminish. The system have been worked in 2012-2014. But now, HoT power creep have broken the system. CC can be spam, double CD, AoE now. And after they have repeatedly reduced the CC CD of the changes, the situation becomes more obvious.

It also shows that their developers are inexperienced.

I have said many times, the reward is not a problem, the important thing is :
Their game is not fun
*Dance in circle for 4 year…
*Ridiculous skill design… att and def in same time braindead spam spam spam….
*Spam everythings…
*Condi system is a failed design, new player killer, new blood killer…. if you want to join the game, pls learn from wiki for a night, may be for a week.
*Horrible matching because low population beacuse the game not fun beacuse most people feel the game is unfair and no skill….
*Horrible matching make the game not fun then kill other veteran….

I am happy if NCsoft takes over their management.

Saiyan.1704:

The plethora of non-meta builds isn’t the issue. The issue has always been matchmaking. Matchmaking has no idea that an account rating of 1600 is using a non-meta build that’s rated 1450 or less.

balance issue/people feel unfair/unhealthy environment > people leave the game > low population > MMR not working > horrible matchmaking > people leave the game >low population > MMR not working > horrible matchmaking…..

This is a circle , and we are all know the root come from where ……

Do you have played GW1 ? ……… there are ….many, huge , crazy…. build …. but they still balance.

Amaimon.7823:

I don’t know, pvp is supposed to be a competitive environment, so some gloating is good,
the difference is how toxic people behave during. Maybe they shouldn’t have the downed team on the ground, but just the pedestals, you know.

Or like all 10 players standing there mixed, while 5 of them do the /cheer emote, while the others do /crossarms, /facepalm, /cry

That is the right answer. They should make PvP like a sport, not a toxic.
But I have said a lot of times, Their designer always miss the psychological effect / feeling when they are design and make a decision, they doesn’t design as a player, thinking as a player. This is the main reason for their failure.

darksoverign.5360:

xeonage.1253:

Their are PvE is funny (LW) and PvE is no need to balance. But Raid need and this will kill the balance of PvP.
If we talk about Raid, that is 2007 game mode. People do the same thing, same dance, same action to kill the boss every day, every week like a bot and get the reward. That ’s a farming and boring.

Anet….
Why don’t just give them the reward?
Why make the playing like working?
Why all MMO are decline?
Why Mobile Game , MOBA, Independent Game are everywhere?
The Time have changed, The Market have changed, don’t make a 2017’s game go back to 2007 and kill all other part of the game. Give back the 2012 best MMO to us.

Their PvE is funny (LW) and there is no need to balance. But Raids need separate balance than PvP.
If we talk about Raids, that is a 2007 game mode. People do the same thing, same dance, same action to kill the boss every day, every week like a bot and get the reward. That ’s a farming and boring. (can be said for every thing… lol)

Anet….
Why don’t you just give them the reward? because it would be boring? and have 0 gameplay.. hence the reason for the game in the first place please reply and tell me your trolling.. I’m losing hope for humanity reading this.)
Why make the playing like working? (because a game without a grind is just free stuff with no effort the real question should be why do you feel entitled to stuff you don’t work for?)
Why all MMO are decline? (because of people like the poster lol jk)
Why are Mobile Games , MOBA’s, Independent Games are everywhere? (because its an industry?)
The Times have changed, The Market has changed, don’t make a 2017’s game go back to 2007 and kill all other part of the game. Give back the 2012 best MMO to us

Fixed your grammar and added some comments enjoy bruv hope you feel better about the game. keep in mind the game is 5 years old they have to do things to try to keep players playing no players = no game. what would you have them do to improve the game? or are you just looking for a reason to hate? I’m thinking its the latter.

YA! Look at the pic, If they are try to keep the players like this, this will be fun~

We are know where are the powercreep come from. RAID and PVP can never coexist. They are two different system. They have to do somthing to keep the players, but don’t go to wrong way. A game have no equipment competition, raid for what!? that ugly armor!? They did not provide reasonable reason for the players to do farming.

And I have reason to hate, I have bought a game expansion pack that give up PvP , WvW (Hey~ Where is the stronghold now?) Ho! some things are wrong, it should be
I bought a expansion pack that just have raid + 4new maps + per 3 months LW + farming+powercreep with no PvP, WvW, 2 week update, mini game, holiday update…..

Anyways, I still love this game, otherwise I will not continue to spam nonsense in the forum. I know they will have some new attempt in the next expansion, hope they will choose the right way this time.

Their are PvE is funny (LW) and PvE is no need to balance. But Raid need and this will kill the balance of PvP.
If we talk about Raid, that is 2007 game mode. People do the same thing, same dance, same action to kill the boss every day, every week like a bot and get the reward. That ’s a farming and boring.

Anet….
Why don’t just give them the reward?
Why make the playing like working?
Why all MMO are decline?
Why Mobile Game , MOBA, Independent Game are everywhere?
The Time have changed, The Market have changed, don’t make a 2017’s game go back to 2007 and kill all other part of the game. Give back the 2012 best MMO to us.

Spammm everything = HoT PvP.

Before HoT:
I pay attention to the opponent’s action and react to decide what skills I want to use.

After HoT:
I pay attention to my skill bar, and rotation all skill when they are CD. Seriously, I can write a script to run them.

Sly.9518:

Xeonage you want them to balance around potato Internet, which is a no no. Nice pretty graphic but that is all it is a graphic with no real bearing on anything…. anyone can make a graphic and claim it means something…

Just a example, don’t be serious. i just want to tell them hit when dodge end is just not work for many ppls and situation.
and I love my ping armor, it save me many time and let me do many trick move, lol

But Seriously, I think the design needs to take into consider this problem.

Look at the pic and know why GW2 has failure in HoT.

“The Balance and Fair is not decide by me, you or dev.”
“The Balance and Fair is decide by population and feeling of user.”

The population don’t lie. It will tell you where the problem is.

GW2 give most of people bad feeling. There never have a healty evironment to let newbie grow up. People feel unplayable and ridiculous then continuous leaving. And no new blood will destory the system, destory the MMR.

and Where all of the problem come from?
Design. They never thinking as a user, be a user when they design.

The main problem is
When air , fire sigil are remove, you don’t make the enough damage between the window of their dodge frame. That’s why condi thief is very hard to kill now. And when evades have been nerfed the last patches, many spammmmer need dagger 3 to fill up their evades spammmm , that’s why now condi thief are everywhere.

>>> Why people need a brain to fight a brainless spamming build?? <<<

Did we have way to duel with them? Yes.

Is this fair and balance? No.

Is this fun to play? No.

Is this make people feel bad? Yes, if you fight a unskill spammmer and you still going dead.

Does the design need to consider the user’s mind?
Yes, They will leave and will not tell you that they use action to decide.

Is there a lot of population here? …….

How to fix this? Ask Anet’s genius designer.

Anyways, People Feel this is not Fair. Then we no need to talk more. I can just sure that somebody else left this time because of condi thief. Again~!

Pay attention to the direction of their jumping, kite the opposite direction of them.
then you will have a safe distance to do your fight back.

drop a trap and kite them, they will jump in. Hit the thief at the end of the dodge just a funny joke.

Sly.9518:

xeonage.1253:

Locuz.2651:

A lot of people just spam abbilities on CD. If u use this vs condi thief youlll die 100% of the time.

The only i repeat only thing u need to do is starting to look at and hit the thief at the end of the dodge. He will spam dodges or dodge like abbilities whcih makes it super predictable and therfor easy to counter.

200-400 ping? what do we do?

Get better internet…. balance shouldn’t be driven by potato Internet connections.

And in regards to the Evade spamming.. it’s not like there aren’t already punish frames and aftercasts built into DB (and Vault as someone brought it up(which was nerfed last patch /GG)). Thief Evades have been nerfed the last couple of patches already so again /GG. And it’s not like they can Perma Evade due to nerfs and aftercasts and punish frames.

Can i put both sides of the earth and will it?

Locuz.2651:

A lot of people just spam abbilities on CD. If u use this vs condi thief youlll die 100% of the time.

The only i repeat only thing u need to do is starting to look at and hit the thief at the end of the dodge. He will spam dodges or dodge like abbilities whcih makes it super predictable and therfor easy to counter.

200-400 ping? what do we do?

The last things :
If your want to duel the thief and waste them more time?
Pick up your dagger or greatsword, equip Paladin Amulet , stay and drop your circle, leave a sentence: i am here, come on honey. Play a Nec as a DH. The circle is yours before they kill you.

1. Circle always drop under your foot. (Nec would do same thing as DH)
2. Move in the opposite direction of the thief. (Waste their movement skill)
3. Prepare DODGE when the thief and you have about 1000 distance. (80% use steal)
4. Don’t do anything when the thief and you have about 500-900 distance (100% PI spammmmm ~~~~)
5. Stay and wait they come to you. ( you are 100% cannot finish them, this game have no one can chase them except a thief, chase them just let them have more movement skill to kill you)
6. When your skill going CD. Show your walking skills , Jumping puzzle skill. Go to that place they can’t blink or teleport to you.
7. Let’s them finish you (you have no chance to win a thief except he is idiot, the balance of every class is not fair and suck. Your damage output worse than they, you do not have the skills to move, to chase. So Waste their time is all you can do.)

The main point of Nec can’t vs thief

1. You can’t make enough damage output between dodge frame. When air,fire,hydromancy are remove, this becomes very obvious. Even you can find the window between def skills spammmmm , you just can hurt him but can’t kill.

2. 12 sec stun break + block kill your last chance. Even you can find the window between def skills spammmmm and make a well time CC.

3. Your LF is passive when you duel with thief. You are hard to hit them to get LF, They can chose to stop attack to waste your Spectral Armor and kite to waste your LF.

4. The movement and heal skill is a big gap. You just a punch bag. And they can repeat movement>heal>movement>heal all day.

WOW! There are dev here!

Crinn.7864:

xeonage.1253:

1. The skill gap is big (power creep) ,

Power creep has literally nothing to do with skill gap.

YA? Why player can dead in a sec? Why there are 10x 20x condi in a sec? Why they cannot make enough damage?

If a player can dead in a sec because they cannot run their def spamm ratotion because of their 200-400ping or their timing control or they take the worng skill/weapon/build.

If a player cannot make any/enough damage output because of they cannot find window of def spamm ratotion or take the worng skill/weapon/build.

1. The skill gap is big (power creep) , people just take the wrong build, skill or weapon, just one of them , this will over, we no need to talk more.
2. population is low.

MMR never work in this environment.

saerni.2584:

I’m not sure you disagree with me. My point stands that the more mitigation you provide the more burst/spike damage is needed. Of course that applies to power damage and the evade/invuln/block/reflect HoT powercreep.

I sure agree with you.

I just want new players can play and stay and make any fun in this game, but …….
I just want the MMR will work, but ……
I just want WvW change back to the past that 10-20 ppls Elite team vs 40-70 ppls army, but ……
When HoT coming …..
There all are the Power of spammmm, Power of powercreep, we have no place to stay ….

saerni.2584:

Cleanse isn’t meant to save you completely. And the reason conditions even need to burst you down between cleanses is because cleanses exist.

Think about it this way. Power based build can hit for 10k. Condition build can hit a combo of conditions that will tick for 10k. But cleanse lets someone reduce the conditions damage down to say 5k. Now they buff the damage so it can do 8k with cleanse. But that means the total potential of the condis went from 10k to 16k.

The more cleanse you ask Anet to add, the more conditions will need to burst you down between the cleanses to do any damage. So if you want to reduce condition burst you should ask Anet to remove condition cleanses and rebalance conditions—not add them.

no no no, Power 10K = Condi 10K is a trick. if Power Hit 10K, then Condi should be 30K – 50K. You can look at their stat. That’s why all PVE/RAID use condi now. Their damage output is not in same level. But Condi need time and can be clean only.

And
The more cleanse you ask Anet to add, the more conditions will need to burst you down = The more block/inv/dodge/heal/boon/movement you ask Anet to add, the more damage/unblocked/cc/AoE will need to burst you down.
That is why HoT became a spammmm game and New player killer.

Sly.9518:

xeonage.1253:

Look at the pic. Look at the effect of Powercreep. Even an idiot knows how to choose.
This is not a choice or a question, this is a fix and remedy.
They haven’t another way.

That’s not an effect of powercreep, that is the effect of shipping a new product….. and the effects of neglect afterwards

(Powercreep+Raid+Farm) – (PVP+WvW) = Their new product.
May be we have another powercreep. If their Boss NCsoft is an idiot allow them to continue nonsense.

Look at the pic. Look at the effect of Powercreep. Even an idiot knows how to choose.
This is not a choice or a question, this is a fix and remedy.
They haven’t another way.

Buran.3796:

Crinn.7864:

Buran.3796:

At equal skill, Necro beats Rev in 1 vs 1 in most of cases. With ease.

Condi rev yes, power rev no.

Condi Rev isn’t even a thing. At high skill level Necro has clearly an edge over the Rev; the only reson due Necro wasn’t as popular as Revs in the pro tournaments is the lack of mobility which prevented Necros from being good at +1/decapping. But at the current state, after all the nerfs to power Revs, and the sigil and runes eliminated in PvP, Necro has the upper hand in a 1 vs 1.

Do not forget the Nec is the biggest victim of removing sigil and runes. Although they can now be a longer punching bags. But they also lost three sigil – Air, Fire, Hydromancy. All about the last stuff they have – damage ouput. lol, This is why they have been shouting can’t kill people. Do you think a punching bags will be useful for survive more than 10 seconds before it?

Silv.9207:

Dirame.8521:

This guy seems to know what he’s doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94E_G8tXvT0

Here’s the guide as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKjLe2dukPE

:D

That videos…
I remember that i had criticized a lot that videos because was really bad. Every single guardian he fought was really bad (enough to do every possible mistakes like stay in the well aoe, active the wrong skills at the worst moment or waste all the stunbreak for nothing), was out of cooldowns (the last was a support build without his Fx abilities…) or he was helped by a teammate to kill the guardian, taking all the glory for no reason.
He was good to play with his build, that’s true, but that build was made only for kill guardians, and unable to kill real skilled players in any single real possible way. he only killed some bad player in unranked, nothing more.

Anyway, he’s for shure a good player and know what he’s doing.

i tried the suggestions but 80% of the time Spectral Wall is more or less ignored by the enemy, a single stability is enough to remove the problem and if the enemy is good he will never dange with you in and out the wall only to lose his stability stacks. A warrior don’t even notice it if have berserker stance.
If the enemy is ranged that’s a useless skill but CCPC work really good (I use it from a lot of time, expecially in condition builds) If the enemy is half melee he can chose to come closer and that skill can work, but a single stability will make my skill useless. I’m not even able to corrupt his stability if he charge me, unless I’m lucky to hit him with the scepter AA (or axe/dagger skill 3 if I’m using a power build) and corrupt that boon.
Any good player after the first fear will just teleport or move around it to hit you. If the enemy have a channeling skill on a ranged weapon there’s nothing useful in that skills.

It’s a good combo but a skilled player will never lose against it.

Also, that combo (with the wurm) fill up all your skills. You become totally useless for your team without any good corruption kill, any good damage and a survavibility chained to a situational combo that work at the best only half of the time and not against skilled players.

I tried it with a condition setup (CCPC inflict weakness on me then it’s a huge problem use it on a Power build) and without good boon corruption skills and Plague Signet my damage was really really low and without corruption skills (I frequently use Corrupt Boon) I was unable to counter stability stacks and corrupt the enemy boons in a way good enough to really support my team. I will never want a so weak necromancer in my team, that can’t survive in high level fights, don’t inflict good damage and can’t do his work properly.
At best you can survive a little longer if the enemy don’t know how to fight you and continue to cross the spectral wall like an id*ot becoming feared all the time long. The second or thirt time the enemy find you on his way you will die without mercy, unless his build is really bad.

I will try it a little longer to know it better and look if it can work in some manner, but I don’t think that in the jet started season there will be so much space for a build like that.

This is no solution, HoT’s POWERCREEP is so powerful.
attack->def + movement->heal , repeat, repeat, repeat (Just two class – ELE and NEC they are out of this system )
Finally, you will only be tortured to death because you have no MOVEMENT to chase. You have no MOVEMENT mean you are a punching bag. You have no way to end them. And They can choose to attack and escape at any time. As you say, there are too many teleport. they don’t need to care about position , their WASD, where you are…. just pass a key when teleport skill CD. This is why a lot of people leave this game, which is why their games, ESL, youtube, Twitch have no viewer. I can say, This is kitten boring.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

xeonage.1253:

condi bomb -> moa and moa -> condi bomb is very difference. If you a mes you know what i said ( bomb -> stealth -> moa). Although i will stand and afk and take a coffee to see their show. But for newbie, they kill theirself. And how long CD of moa for eng and mes??? 1.5 mins? 1 mins?

If you’re a mes you’d know mesmer metas haven’t be using stealth for 6 seasons already. Ofc the options are there and you can talk about those odd builds minority uses, but know that you either have to sacrifice portal or signet of illusions, both of which are essential in rotation or your “condi bomb”.

Just a example, stealth just for who can dodge. Actual, bomb -> moa is enough. There are too confusion. 50% time, you cannot see them spell , you don’t know what they are spell, just dodge when the condi bomb are explosion. If the mes isn’t a spammmmer, the moa will coming~

Gretzel.6790:

I haven’t played in a while but out of my main classes I play (mesmer, rev, necro and engi) necro feels best in my hands BY FAR (with mesmer being my second favourite). Did we get nerfed or something within the past like four months? I never really felt underpowered on my necro regardless of matchup and would usually go on big win streaks and 3-5 top stats per match. I mean really, necro felt a little overpowered last I played. We didn’t get hit really hard or something, did we? I’m reinstalling at the moment because it looks like Anet is finally giving real attention to PVP and WoW is boring after a month.

Seriously, Necro is now a bit strong when they remove air and fire sigil. But many people are unhappy when they are always suck in CC chains and can’t do any thing to deal with them. But i think this is a duty for a punchbag. right?

Ralkuth.1456:

The only gripe with Moa I have is that it instantly kills your Mr Wurm. I imagine it also does so to other types of minions but that is a lot of shutdown on one skill. It is, however, a long CD skill with an obvious cast/skillshot/require stealth setup so it is rather fair I get punished for not seeing it coming.

@xeonage.1253:

If it was a perfectly setup Moa burst complete with immobilize + teammates assisting then it’s GG. They do happen, with experienced teams, and very often.

However in most cases in a PUG if you anticipate a Moa incoming, just spam 5 and 2 immediately, they give you evade. In fact there were a few times where I actually gain mobility (I run faster because I believe I’m a bird????) because I was Moa’d and I escape a 2v1, buying time until teammates rotate in to help. The Engi version is short enough that you can just evade the whole time and Engi lacks the means to lockdown as much as Chrono can during the Moa anyway.

condi bomb -> moa and moa -> condi bomb is very difference. If you a mes you know what i said ( bomb -> stealth -> moa). Although i will stand and afk and take a coffee to see their show. But for newbie, they kill theirself. And how long CD of moa for eng and mes??? 1.5 mins? 1 mins?

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

What you describe is not really necro issue but powercreep that has been added with HoT.
I am however surprised that you have issues with engis considering necros eat them for breakfast with ease.

Engis => stealth – moa – 14stack burning in a sec – Elixir S and see the fire chicken running show.
That is a breakfast for engis and I don’t think a punchbag need a breakfast.

Dodge, staff 4, wells, condi cleanse on weapon swap? Condi xfer works wonders. Engis moa doesn’t last long enough to be much of an issue, in my experience, although moa is indeed rather obnoxious spell overall.

stealth – moa – 14stack burning in a sec – Elixir S, there are no dodge. and there are not one condi on you. 6 to 8 ? lol. and you want staff4 to what?~ Elixir S.
Spell your 1.4 sec healing to help you want you run over the running show and not down.

I think i posted plenty of solutions to the scenario. Condi necro should not have issues with condi engi.

YA if there are another target. Condi necro is fine. If not, sorry.

Well of power doesn’t require targets, sigil of cleansing doesn’t require target, consume condis doesn’t require target.

You are in moa…. with 14 stack burning… with other 6 to 8 kinds of condi…. and if you be moa in reaper ….. ….

What stops you from using dodges in moa and skill 5?

i know how to fight with them. i just want to show the game how unbalance it is.

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

What you describe is not really necro issue but powercreep that has been added with HoT.
I am however surprised that you have issues with engis considering necros eat them for breakfast with ease.

Engis => stealth – moa – 14stack burning in a sec – Elixir S and see the fire chicken running show.
That is a breakfast for engis and I don’t think a punchbag need a breakfast.

Dodge, staff 4, wells, condi cleanse on weapon swap? Condi xfer works wonders. Engis moa doesn’t last long enough to be much of an issue, in my experience, although moa is indeed rather obnoxious spell overall.

stealth – moa – 14stack burning in a sec – Elixir S, there are no dodge. and there are not one condi on you. 6 to 8 ? lol. and you want staff4 to what?~ Elixir S.
Spell your 1.4 sec healing to help you want you run over the running show and not down.

I think i posted plenty of solutions to the scenario. Condi necro should not have issues with condi engi.

YA if there are another target. Condi necro is fine. If not, sorry.

Well of power doesn’t require targets, sigil of cleansing doesn’t require target, consume condis doesn’t require target.

You are in moa…. with 14 stack burning… with other 6 to 8 kinds of condi…. and if you be moa in reaper ….. ….

What stops you from using dodges in moa and skill 5?

i don’t see them~~ man~ and i start my runing show when no viewer?. this not ok!

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

What you describe is not really necro issue but powercreep that has been added with HoT.
I am however surprised that you have issues with engis considering necros eat them for breakfast with ease.

Engis => stealth – moa – 14stack burning in a sec – Elixir S and see the fire chicken running show.
That is a breakfast for engis and I don’t think a punchbag need a breakfast.

Dodge, staff 4, wells, condi cleanse on weapon swap? Condi xfer works wonders. Engis moa doesn’t last long enough to be much of an issue, in my experience, although moa is indeed rather obnoxious spell overall.

stealth – moa – 14stack burning in a sec – Elixir S, there are no dodge. and there are not one condi on you. 6 to 8 ? lol. and you want staff4 to what?~ Elixir S.
Spell your 1.4 sec healing to help you want you run over the running show and not down.

I think i posted plenty of solutions to the scenario. Condi necro should not have issues with condi engi.

YA if there are another target. Condi necro is fine. If not, sorry.

Well of power doesn’t require targets, sigil of cleansing doesn’t require target, consume condis doesn’t require target.

You are in moa…. with 14 stack burning… with other 6 to 8 kinds of condi…. and if you be moa in reaper ….. ….
ya! dodge the stealth moa is ok. but i am a punchbag. i am not a super hero.

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

What you describe is not really necro issue but powercreep that has been added with HoT.
I am however surprised that you have issues with engis considering necros eat them for breakfast with ease.

Engis => stealth – moa – 14stack burning in a sec – Elixir S and see the fire chicken running show.
That is a breakfast for engis and I don’t think a punchbag need a breakfast.

Dodge, staff 4, wells, condi cleanse on weapon swap? Condi xfer works wonders. Engis moa doesn’t last long enough to be much of an issue, in my experience, although moa is indeed rather obnoxious spell overall.

stealth – moa – 14stack burning in a sec – Elixir S, there are no dodge. and there are not one condi on you. 6 to 8 ? lol. and you want staff4 to what?~ Elixir S.
Spell your 1.4 sec healing to help you want you run over the running show and not down.

I think i posted plenty of solutions to the scenario. Condi necro should not have issues with condi engi.

YA if there are another target. Condi necro is fine. If not, sorry.

Cynz.9437:

xeonage.1253:

Cynz.9437:

What you describe is not really necro issue but powercreep that has been added with HoT.
I am however surprised that you have issues with engis considering necros eat them for breakfast with ease.

Engis => stealth – moa – 14stack burning in a sec – Elixir S and see the fire chicken running show.
That is a breakfast for engis and I don’t think a punchbag need a breakfast.

Dodge, staff 4, wells, condi cleanse on weapon swap? Condi xfer works wonders. Engis moa doesn’t last long enough to be much of an issue, in my experience, although moa is indeed rather obnoxious spell overall.

stealth – moa – 14stack burning in a sec – Elixir S, there are no dodge. and there are not one condi on you. 6 to 8 ? lol. and you want staff4 to what?~ Elixir S.
Spell your 1.4 sec healing to help you when you run over the running show and not down.

Lord Velar.1509:

There is 1 ability for 1 class I did forget to mention that I will never say is not broken and definitely needs to be fixed in pvp and that is the mesmers moa morph, I have never played a game, where another class can morph you into some useless creature, and you still take full damage from it.

Most of the other games at least make it to where taking any form of damage breaks the morph, I’ve literally been killed by a Mesmer (mind you I was around %70 health and had just filled my reaper bar) by them morphing me and before I knew it that “crap ton” of health I had had vanished…that ability is on my top 10 lists of utterly broken

1 ability for 2 class. mes + eng
kill all your minions(all CD about 30 sec to 1 mins) + Life force + you can’t use any cleaning skill.
So Nec =The best punchbag. But the punchbag still have their role, have their duty. So I think the punchbag is fine.

Cynz.9437:

What you describe is not really necro issue but powercreep that has been added with HoT.
I am however surprised that you have issues with engis considering necros eat them for breakfast with ease.

Engis => stealth – moa – 14stack burning in a sec – Elixir S and see the fire chicken running show.
That is a breakfast for engis and I don’t think a punchbag need a breakfast.

Cynz.9437:

They threw any common sense and balance out of the window for the sake of sales (HoT).
It also doesn’t help that there is literary 0 consequences for exploiting, cheating, griefing, afking, match manipulation in this game. Apparently entire customer support budget went on forum moderation.

The powercreep did help them a lot for sales (HoT).
And get this result ~let see the pic .
I just want to say~ Ho My God! Anet is funny~ always funny~ Let’s give us more powercreep and Raid.
I just want NCsoft take back their control. Let give the dev who know the game take back their control.

Arr … they run their def sustain skill and kite you. When their damage and movement skill are CD. They pass a key blink to you and begin their output. When they spam all their output skill then they will repeat those thing. Rev DH Thief Mes all are in same mode.
So, don’t get mind on this game. If you want to win. Go to choose other class is the better way or you do very well on movement / understand all terrain trick / timing handle.

Do you know what is the issue?

Go def
You do not have enough damage output to kill him between their each healing CD.

Go att
You don’t have enough cleaning skill. You are dead before you kill him because of crazy burning damage and block inv etc.

And they are not move to you. They pass a key and blink to your position, so the movement skill and terrain all are useless for them.

burning + block block block heal heal blink blind blink blind dodge dodge inv inv block block block heal heal blink blind blink blind ~ don’t be sad, The balance of each class in this game are …… kitten! let’s go to play a guard.

I think anet would cut down all the powercreep of other class is the best choice in this situation.
No other choice. So we will have many many many Nerf patch soon.

Entenkommando.5208:

Faux Play.6104:

I think necro is fine. You have to be patient and play within the class limitations. Their big plus is their skills become more effective the more targets there are in the area. Axe, scepter, great sword, staff, and war horn are all good weapon sets for sPvP. They have quite a few utility skills that are good as well. Just accept you aren’t going to have the mobility of a thief. What you do have for kiting is chill, cripple, and weakness which are better for holding points. Also you have shroud which acts as a second life bar that you can charge by attacking. The only thing I don’t like is enter and exit shroud are the same button. Some times it isn’t responsive so you want to hit the button again, and other times it seems like you only hit the button once, but you enter and exit shroud instantly.

I don’t really agree with a few points there.

• Weapons get more effective the more enemies are there. Only true to a very small degree. Sure some skills can be a little more effective, but I wouldn’t say that the increase is big enaugh to really qualify as a pro for necros. Staff is still rather weak and most of your AoE probably comes from reaper shroud. Perhaps the only weapon that really qualifies is scepter due to it’s low cooldown cc.
• The thing about kiting, and basically the entire point of this thread, is that this stuff barely helps you anything. Sure you have a little bit of chill and a little bit of cripple, but that stuff is instantly cleansed or you are simply kept immobilized and stunlocked or chilled/crippled yourself without a way to remove it due to the stupid heal skill in which case your enemy doesn’t even need to remove it in order to stay with you. You basically only have one fear skill since you definitely want to keep shorud 3 active for the stability, but that one or even two fears are instantly stunlocked or they instantly charge/teleport at you again while you are walking away slow as a turtoise.
  And the second life bar doesn’t give you more than 2-3 seconds if you are being focused. Sure, you are alive for 3 more seconds but how does this help you if you can’t do anything in this time nor are safe afterwards? If you teleport away 1200 units you are way safer during this time, can cast skills and if you use terrain you can even entirely avoid your enemies which is what any other class does with their ports.

I have already said.
HoT = Movement skill + damage ouput + cc + healing + def skill + CD timing.
Just Nec and Ele out of this system.
But if you give those skill to a Nec. Then Nec can’t be Hero more, they will become commonplace. When they can block inv movement dodge heal spam sapm sapm like other class, When noone want to focus them. They will lose their job, lose their role , punchbag become not a punchbag more! A punchbag no need to block, no need to move, Noone want to hurt thier fist when they punch a punchbag! Right?

Cynz.9437:

I am curious, would necro be willing to give up some of their dmg and HP/healing/defensives for more mobility/blocks?

Movement is the main issue. You have Movement that mean your take helf part of this game. And I don’t think a punch bag need a block!

Ralkuth.1456:

xeonage.1253:

Ahh… if your a good nec. You will know how the punchbag do their hero job in a team fight. If they cannot kill you in a short time. Your teammate will let them pay for it.

That picture is hilarious.

I’m not a good Necro.

Oh you mean running out of LoS with pro Reaper Shroud #2 kiting while a Warrior/Mesmer/DH/Thief 2-man team is waiting for you to pop out of Shroud and interrupt your heal which takes 5 million years to coalesce into health (hint: bait those headshot spammers with sheathing)?

Dazing with Wail of Doom or stunning with CTTB! while behind a wall? Around-the-corner or jump puzzle turn-around RS #5 ambush tactics (hint: they don’t work on good players)?

The only time you actually win a 1v2 kiting game is when both of them just used up all their CDs (hint: which, you know, they used to kill your teammates) and you have enough skills available to down one of them. Then you make a beeline for the downed player, cleave like crazy and hope the other player is dumb enough to try a rez (hint: but not interrupt/try to kill me like a decent player).

Around the 200 games or so I’ve been casually playing since last month (160 unranked, ~50% winrate; scrub v scrub), successful 1v2 occurred probably 2 or 3 times. Awkward 1v2 punchbag fiesta usually ends after 20-30 seconds of running around pillars, and happened maybe in 10+ or so games. I’ll admit the first half of games I had Fire + Air sigils to pressure people off me, and after the patch I had to have better positioning.

Pro Necros pls share.

Yeah! you’re right. lol. This is all Nec can do now. This is all punchbag can do now.
You eat that all kitten then go die and your teammate will go to reap them!
Punchbag hero. Look at my pic, Just is a joke. don’t be serious.

Ralkuth.1456:

xeonage.1253:

“kill necro firts” Not because of nec are dangerous. Because the damage output will not be wasted by block, dodge, movement, inv…. , Because nec can’t pass any key and make any damage when they are be focus(CC spam), Because you can make a lot of pressure on the enemy, Because nec is a role of punching bag in a match. This is all because of the highest efficiency.

By your logic, why even run Necro? What’s the point if the class has all these downsides? Shouldn’t I just counter this efficient focus strategy and reroll another class?

As people have already mentioned, Necro doesn’t do a lot of condi damage as Condi, does ok damage as Power, and has poor utility defensive skills (and class mechanic) which makes the class weak to focus fire.

The only selling point is Boon Corruption, which allows Necros to break sustain bunkers and collapse teamfights when they would otherwise go on unendingly. They used to be valuable enough to overlook their weaknesses and even build a team around Necro to make this class work.

However, as the OP correctly (as I see it) mentions, the bunker playstyle is long gone, everyone has gone more and more into damage-focused Power comps (with a side of Condi), and Necro has become, basically, how to put it…

Irrelevant.

The only time you see them being run in PvP, is because players want to play the class and find it fun (we all have our “goth phase”), while in reality all you are doing is helping carry the enemy team. Because any other class you bring will contribute that much more in the current meta. (Reminds me of DRK in FF14… total Edgelord but take 300% effort to be 80% as good…)

Granted, Necro is easy to play and with minimal effort, you can be helpful to the team; but without any support or peels specifically set up to help you do your job, you won’t be going to the next level with your gameplay.

You will be going back to spawn.

Ahh… if you are a good nec. You will know how the punchbag do their hero job in a team fight. If they cannot kill you in a short time. Your teammate will let them pay for it.

Ahh… nec is a good punchbag. So that is easy to make your enemy to spam their CC, damage skill , movement skill…. when those are over…. then we reap….

megilandil.7506:

Crinn.7864:

In the first two seasons, and pre-HoT, necros where the quintessential selfish bruiser. Necros where slow moving but tough. However a year ago necro’s role was flipped on it’s head. Necro was changed from a self-sufficient bruiser to a support-dependent ADC. Necro went from being one of the tanky classes to the squishiest.

Now at that time the change to being support-dependant ADC (that specialized in killing supports) wasn’t all that bad because much of the meta revolved around teamfights and support duos. However the combination of repeated nerfs to supports and the enforcement of solo/duo has killed the teamfight meta and the support duo.

Necros as they stand now, are a class that is designed for a meta that doesn’t exist. We are designed for countering supports that don’t exist anymore, and are dependent on having those same non-existent supports on our team.

What are you doing with our class Anet?

dont exagerate, necros are not the squishiest class, necros are the most dangerous class in a team fights(not only have a good amount of aoe dmg, they turn defenses(boons) into dmg) cuz this the strategy is “kill necro firts” and no class cant resist a focused spike, and a focused spike is the thing necro gets when apears in the big team fight cuz not doing so is losing the fight

“kill necro firts” Not because of nec are dangerous. Because the damage output will not be wasted by block, dodge, movement, inv…. , Because nec can’t pass any key and make any damage when they are be focus(CC spam), Because you can make a lot of pressure on the enemy, Because nec is a role of punching bag in a match. This is all because of the highest efficiency.