Guild Wars 2

• Well skills now use ground targeting by default. – personal thing.

• Consume Conditions: This skill is now considered a corruption skill and applies 10 stacks of vulnerability to you for 4 seconds after use. Increased recharge to 30 seconds.

• Lich Form: Reduced duration of this skill to 15 seconds (trait for 2 more seconds than pre nerf)

• Spectral Walk: This skill can no longer be activated while in mid-air – death to fun, noone is allowed to be happy anymore!

• Soul Comprehension – still exists

• Beyond the Veil/Vampiric – didnt they learn from reanimator not to balance as if necros innately have all minions and another set of utilities?

• Blood Magic – downed, downed, downed, downed everything (hint hint whoever was crazy to work on new BM, getting downed is not good, in fact its something that shouldnt happen to players).

The lady doth NOT protest too much since one cannot nerf everything good or at least that makes sense and is functional and then call buffs to meh or builds with core flaws outside of numbers “even to it”.

Bye

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I already mentioned this to Bhawb, but I suspect this change is a side-effect of normalizing leaps with Quickness and Slow. Right now, using a leap with Quickness actually reduces the distance you travel because the movement speed is the same, but the time you move at that speed is lower.

Not the best way to code things.

Wouldnt fixing the code then to give a pseudo speed boost and slow respectively during the casts to make sure mobility skills under quickness go for full length (more with ss/swiftness) in half the time/under slow take twice as long to get to their end distance be a more functional long term efficient fix? If condition and boon interaction with mobility skills is really the reason for the change, why are they trying to amputate the broken leg instead of turning it into a mech demon stomper/improving it and increasing gameplay depth?

WvWvW whine about fixing the game to pc standards, typical.

DavyMcB.1603:

TBH, these soft CCs are never really a thing. The best they could do are good distractions and not by any means I am insulting those as functionalities. I was running DPS chill necro for some time to test it out before… and tbh, you’re never really gonna end up holding anything in place for long. It’s not about the impairment effects, it’s the condi cleanses. Losing a volatile movement CCs while doing away with the insta-rocket-launcher-engi-on-cracks seems like a good deal to me.

To be my brother for a few seconds:

>Implying that a few badly coded jumps that combo with super speed interactions means everything should be nerfed

>Implying soft cc not crucial part for necro, ranger and ele (and some rareish thief/engie builds) survival by kiting

>Implying its not a dumbing down of game mechanics

WvWvW zerg player detected.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Anubis.7058:

…2 turned into a facing/cone based aoe channel?

This would be really cool even if I don’t agree with the other part of your post.

The idea/reasoning behind 1s target reduction is based on it then being capable of getting tweaked for pure duel in pvp and PvE boss scaling, Cleave wont really be a problem with Reaper release.

What about D1 target limit reduced back to 1, but 2 turned into a facing/cone based aoe channel? Reshuffling its focus back to 1 target while making the 2 survival when outnumbered?

WoC, PoC and CB are all unblockable, thus no need for them to corrupt aegis first.
Necro should follow power of corruption order: Stability> Resistance> Quickness/Vigor (whichever will chill, then the one which will slow, 1 bleed for vigor is worthless)> Protection> Might> Regeneration> Fury> Aegis> Retaliation> Swiftness

If they ask you to start at 0LF, ask them to then use all their defensive skills on utilities and the 4-5 weapons, its only fair. If they got a problem with it, they should adapt, just as a person can just walk out of Supply Crate range once dropped.

Nice bug, but better question is: Why take Vampiric rituals instead of putting a single point into Curses, Soul Reaping or Spite and get better returns from the sheer stats gained?

I dont get what you are talking about, its Staff=Dagger>Warhorn/Offhand-Dagger>Focus/Scepter>Axe, numbers rating are worthless since you cant honestly compare weapons from one profession to weapons of another unless they do the same role with the same playstyle and same build balance (which noone of the necro weapons really do). Also dagger is in general a average power weapon (i would even argue that the 2 target cleave made it worse by moving its role from single target overpower instead of making 2 and 3 more interesting or provide more quality of life/something more than spam 1 for pve).

Same reason why they broke gathering in DS/Lich/Plague, each time a-net gives something, they take something away.

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQFbALkBrg~ Since the Ice and Grenth builds got already theorycrafted, my friend got me thinking, could it with ele runes and sinister/carrion/rabid/rampager work for pvp?

spoj.9672:

Passive chill is too strong and difficult to balance. Theres no counter play to a passive aoe pulsing chill. Also Death Shiver is a good PvE trait which doesnt require the reaper spec to be useful. So no i do not think its a good idea to change that trait to chill. It should remain as pulsing vuln.

Possibly, tho its not that there is no counterplay, its that its anti melee, also is 1s aoe chill and poison every 5 seconds really stronger than immunity to crits, guaranteed 3 condi cleanse pre 10s or a flat 10% dps increase ontop of any multiplier you have which reduces reaction time? Remember its 1) DS only 2) close range 3) would have downtime guaranteed without heavy investment (and even then unless condition duration stacking changes) 4) fit with the proposed a-net necro theme of lethal if in death range 5) as mentioned, would compete against 2 other good traits.

flow.6043:

Anubis.7058:

Signet Mastery (reworked to be signets retain passive instead of activate SoL when low, so that it would have synergy with DS that keeps signet passives working in it and that activating a signet causes aoe cripple for every signet on CD)

That would be so much worse.
Also, signets should work in DS without having to trait for it, that’s just one of the core issues that should be fixed.
And fyi, they said they are going to rework our signets so maybe wait until we see what we actually get.

Anubis.7058:

spoj.9672:

Then you lose chill of death + bitter chill synergy.

And death shiver is good as it is. I dont think its a good idea to give passive chills.

Thats the point, as for passive chills, they are better than passive vuln, also more interesting for gameplay AND at odds with a 20% under 50% hp bonus damage.

Or better yet, once per second you’re pusling aoe Corrupt Boon and aoe Signet of Spite!
Seriously though, chill would be too strong for this trait, and it’s not like the Reaper will have a shortage of chilled anyway.

… did you actually read the comment?
In DS heal on hit, 180 power and 180 movement speed all with effects functional for hybrid builds that tend to use what weapons? Exactly, axe and scepter, thus even when popped those parts would remain AND axe would get its bonus damage with currently known version of the trait.

As for the second im not even going to bother giving it thought since you clearly dont get what grandmaster and competing with CtD means for a traits power requirement.

spoj.9672:

Then you lose chill of death + bitter chill synergy.

And death shiver is good as it is. I dont think its a good idea to give passive chills.

Thats the point, as for passive chills, they are better than passive vuln, also more interesting for gameplay AND at odds with a 20% under 50% hp bonus damage.

spoj.9672:

Thats fair enough. Thats the whole point of these discussions. To give suggestions and gather feedback.

I can certainly live without having both bitter chill and spiteful talisman on the same build. But i think its a real shame. Especially as it will help PvE necros a bit more aswell.

I think its really going to be difficult for anet to sort out all core specs in a way which retains synergy and meaningful choice like the elite specs have. They certainly wont be able to please everyone

Maybe more for each line has synergy/competition setup:

1 – Anti-boon and damage multipliers
2 – DS/Reaper Synergy
3 – Cripple/Axe build

Adept
- Spiteful Talisman
- Reaper’s Might
- Axe Training

Master
- Chill of Death
- Bitter Chill
- Signet Mastery (reworked to be signets retain passive instead of activate SoL when low, so that it would have synergy with DS that keeps signet passives working in it and that activating a signet causes aoe cripple for every signet on CD)

Grandmaster
- Close to Death (offense)
- Death Shivers (chill + Poison aoe effect pulse to replace reaper of grenth in case that racials are removed/non-humans dont get screwed or aoe chill/frost nova each time DS takes a certain damage limit – defense/synergy)
- Spiteful Spirit (pulse in DS instead of CD, but deals less direct damage if you dont have retal on you already – utility/chase/kinda escape)

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well Reaper looks cool, so clearly this nerf was warranted.

Im starting to think A-net intentionally trolled axe necros for using the weakest weapon of the necro kitten nal before repear gets released.

War Mourner.5168:

Literally one ele or other class with ready access to aoe cleanse in a team fight, and any hope of perma chill goes out the window.

Without chill on everything aroun you all this sustain goes out the window.

If this was based on something you applied to yourself, then it would be significantly different, but because it relies on a single condition applied to loads of enemies, it’s a whole load of variables stacked together to try achieve this, and even then, 3 guys focusing you down? I’d still pick a class with invuln every time.

Exactly why i pointed out could and opportunity cost of it. Even in a ideal situation, the player sacrifices as much (long term/in upkeep and rotation requirement) as a instagib burst ele does (short term/in bursts).

Tho id want to point out again, (current preview versions of) Deathly Shivers, Siphoned Power and Deaths Embrace are additional triggers that could make reaper traits stronger than needed AND are very uninspired (or flat out wrong named) traits with little decision making influencing them.

Xaylin.1860:

spoj.9672:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

While at first, I was sckeptical of the power of this trait, even synergizing with Blighter’s Boon, I don’t think either one needs a nerf. Chilling Force is conditional enough and the Might short enough that I can’t really see a situation when it would be OP. There are some impressive burst situations (like weapon swap to Hydromancy, then immedietly jump into RS and Spin2Win), but for actual sustain, it only works out to be a nice supplement.

Completely agree. Its only really providing some burst synergy in PvP. In PvE its balanced because other classes can do better and we deserve something nice for a change.

I’m not so concerned by the Might from Chilling Force. It might be powerful but due to the short duration it will require very skillful play to utilize it for burst or even maintain it.

However, the synergy with Blighers Boon is very troublesome. For example, Death Spiral could potentially provide you with 18 stacks of Might. That equals a 2.4k self heal. ‘You are weaklings’ could heal for 2.6k. One Locust Swarm could heal for 6.6k (665 health per second). One Soul Spiral could grant you 55% Life Force per use.

Those numbers are less efficient than on, for example, Guardians because of the higher healthpool. And, of course, this all asumes that your targets are chilled. This might be difficult to achieve depending on how the numbers turn out. As it is now, I’d assume it isn’t that hard after all, especially when using Chilling Nova. You also got to keep in mind that you can get additional sources of Might (Sigils, Runes, Food).

It’s not very appealing if traits or skills are balanced regarding the best case scenario. However, as long as this best scenario might be achievable at least in specific content, it is very likely to happen. I’d rather take an internal cooldown on Chilling Force and increase the Might duration instead of having Blighters Boon being gutted by a cooldown.

Core point/word: COULD and in those situations, if in a place where such balance matters, as a necro you get kittened either way (unlike others who have invul, skill evade frames and blocks).

P.S. You are also in that case giving up on chill does damage or faster attacks+mobility reset.

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*This speech, vote and opinion has in no way been bought for 500g passed onto the user via a lionguard officer, dont listen to any rumors stating otherwise. Disclaimer, because of changes in policy of ethics in in-game journalism, this is a paid promotion deal sponsored by the Black Lion Trading Company & Co.

spoj.9672:

3 procs per second per target is also a nice idea. But that over nerfs it on single targets again. So i would say 5 procs per second per target. But then you may aswell just not have any ICD at all.

And i do agree. I dont think its OP at all. The chill is most likely going to be looked at because that will be strong on its own. And any reduction to chill will be an indirect nerf to this trait. Thus solving the problem in most cases. In other cases its probably justified for the reaper to get that many procs. Because it would require huge setup and investment to meet those ideal circumstances in PvP.

Well, the “issue” was that necro would vs 5 targets have the potential to have very passive 25 might+vuln, but as i pointed out before, a decent part of it can be attributed to other uninspired traits. For pvp its not much of any issue since the risk, cost and execution of the setup deserve such rewards (same as what used to be seen a lot with shatter mesmers dunking bunker guards or eles going 0 active defense glass for 1-3 people instakills if in a good situation), both things that werent actually nerfed, but shifted out of playstyle because people countered it and thus risk and cost for setup wasnt worth the reward.

5 small nightmares (be it nightstalkers, baby abyssals or crypt fiends)?

Bhawb.7408:

The only siphon things in the game which currently work have an ICD, either explicit or effective due to their proccing mechanics. This is an undeniable fact, every single one that currently is useful has built-in limiters. Vampiric Master has effective ICDs, runes/sigils/food which we always complain are better than ours, have built in ICDs. Yet ICD will break Vampiric how?

If you don’t want an ICD, and you want it to only work for some builds that is totally fine, but don’t make it a minor trait. We had this issue with Reanimator, let’s not force it on ourselves again.

Then just make it one of the grandmaster options for a high siphon no icd thing that doesnt scale of pumping everything into offense.

Another option tho would be do have a time cap of how much health can be siphoned in it with on hit value being based on time since last attack hit, but not have a actual cd, thus 3 hits every 5 seconds would have around the same lifesteal as 9 every 5 seconds (tho small flat value like 20 base siphon that ignores the cap should exist just so that it doesnt feel utterly worthless on mass hits count vs multiple opponents).

Rising Dusk.2408:

It would sure be nice to be able to self-stack 25 might and 25 vulnerability permanently regardless of whether we attack in DS or not and maintain 100% critical hit chance with basically no precision, but I genuinely think we’re being naive if we don’t acknowledge that we can’t have all of these things. It’s just too much.

So the real key is to decide what you want more. I personally think my suggestion would enable us to build to do things with different playstyles in each manner, while still giving us the strength we need to be effective and manage life force effectively.

I think in general we’ll opt for Spite/SR/Reaper like in this build: http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQBqAVoBqw~. Downside to this is that we lose out on Fury on entering DS and we lose out on Target the Weak which I think ANet will move back to a damage modifier instead of a critical chance modifier (hopefully).

The alternative to this build is to use Curses and opt out of SR, which would look like this http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQB2AL8Brw~. Here we go with Decimate Defenses for the crit chance and focus on maintaining 25 stacks of vulnerability in order to keep ourselves at 100% crit chance. The big loss here is that our DS is fairly weak so we’d just flash it for Fury and we’re going to struggle getting most mobs under 50%. The other big issue here is that it has no personal might generation, so even if it’s stronger than the other build in raw numbers I don’t think it’ll be as good for general open world PVE. That said I’m personally glad that the build that doesn’t properly use DS is weaker.

Rym.1469:

Just nerf might duration. I care only for current synergy with Blighter’s Boon.

Generating a boon just to heal yourself or generate LF is a pretty poor design decision. The might duration is already really low, and any lower and you may as well not even get might. I’d much rather Chilling Force be a reasonable trait that has value on its own and isn’t strictly useful only when coupled with Blighter’s Boon.

Important notes tho: Deathly Shivers – its a trait that not only has no sense in terms of naming, but also in overall build options and synergy till DD, IF it instead applied a 1s chill every 5 seconds, it would cause a totally different spin on build options, improve base necro/non reaper stickyness (and its name would actually be relevant to the effect).

Siphoned Power and Deaths Embrace – While powerhouse reaper effects and triggers on enemies under 50/33% hp, they are worthless by themselves and have quite uninspired effects (perma 5 vuln and 2 might) in the current versions of the traits, yet still a passive/not very interactive or otherwise build influencing way reapers would have bonus vuln/might triggers. Other/more fun effects like “gain power when you strike a enemy with less %HP than your current Life Force % *like 150 or something *” and “the lower your hp, the shorter damaging conditions applied to you last *like 1% for every 4% hp *” respectively, or kitten y fun things like every time you weapon swap to your main weapons (first/upper slot ones) cast chillblains or grasping dead under your feet; would be way more interesting and not as influential on reaper might/vuln procs.

As for the concerns for Curses setups, unless they make DS cooldown start on entry, especially with the currently shown new version of Spiteful spirit, keeping it as condi only line seems reasonable enough and with Death Perception (and/or Decimate Defenses) it matters little if its crit or damage boost since it doesnt directly compete with em.

Last but not least, Engie (potentially not depending on traits), Ele (again, possibly not if air gets dropped for tempest, but thats unlikely) and Warrior can all solo keep 25 vuln and 25 might with proper rotations for a very reasonable amount of time by making very slight variations from meta. Guards will too with symbol changes. Even more so with Frailty and Strength as options. So… by sheer track record, its not very unreasonable to let necros have same power level in that aspect (but just solo instead for entire team) under the condition that they a) pick 4 traits specifically for that role b) keep all enemies chilled 100% of the time c) sacrifice higher crit chance, stronger life force generation, vuln burst via chill dump (which is far easier than constantly working to keep the enemies chilled while doing respectable damage/not sitting on GS1) and shorter cooldowns on said burst.

TLDR: IF nerfed it should take the spoj example of something like, max 7~10 charges, gain 5 charges every second, limiting max procs enough to not be insane in mass aoe, but not worthless in 1v1 and useful outside of DS.

I still think its the other stuff that needs tweaks tho.

Rising Dusk.2408:

As much as I’d love to be able to solo generate 25 might with greater ease than a Warrior while on my Necromancer, I’m not sure I’m sold that this is really an appropriate trait given what we already have. It’s already sort of redundant with Reaper’s Might, so here’s what I propose.

Reaper’s Might: Gain 1 stack of might for 15 seconds for each foe you hit with Life Blast or Plague Blast.

Chilling Force: Deal 10% bonus damage to foes suffering from chill. When you strike a foe suffering from chill, you gain 1% life force.

Here’s the logic. Currently with Reaper’s Might you can just autoattack the floor and generate might, which is fairly silly. Additionally, even if you manage to line it up and cleave people with Life Blast, you still only get 1 stack of might. This change would make it so you’d get 1 stack of might for each foe you hit, which would scale really well into Reaper’s Shroud. This would give us a reliable way to self-buff when surrounded by multiple enemies, and then we could simultaneously dial back Chilling Force so we get an extra damage modifier (something Necromancer needs) and retain the life force generation without it being over the top.

As far as I can tell, this balances the issue out and gives us all of what we want out of these two traits. If you want might, you’d go for Reaper’s Might, and if you want the damage modifier and life force management, you’d go for Chilling Force.

Only downside to this is that Reaper’s Might competes with Bitter Chill, so in an organized group that is blasting might or has a PS Warrior you would take Bitter Chill, and in a solo scenario you’d opt to take the trait that provides a lot more personal might and try to manage vulnerability with other traits and skills.

Thoughts?

Problem them also becomes with damage potential and multiplier stacking, in zerk, noone will take DD over Chilling Force, if its too weak of a multiplier (or if the person wanted to take blighters for the previous synergy), noone will take Chilling over DD AND both cases make Soul Eater worthless by comparison, thus the 3 traits need to properly compete in both synergy and how strong they are. Life force is essential for necro and if nerfed, should be only a slight nerf. Also remember that Chilling force is a universal if enemy is chilled might generator, not just a in DS one, thus the change would destroy all builds that want to generate might, but dont want to rely on DS for the heavy offense/still want a more flash in for a second or two playstyle.
However a different version of the trait couldsolve most issues, a pre second cap on max might… OR a improved Reapers might that would also benefit the non Reaper Necro, thus instead of giving might doing something like cutting the cast time or causing the damage of each successive Life blast (and thus finished Reaper 1 chains) to gain bonus damage.

TLDR: I honestly think the bigger issue is why is Shout CDR a adept while Soul Eater is a Major, despite their power potentials being reverse (13s cd 20% life force + 78s cd aoe stun VS 50 more damage on hit and 15% cdr of skills that you wont use since your main one, which also triggers the cdr, doesnt have a CD if the enemy is under 50%)

insaneseagull.7063:

Paying customer? You are NOT a PAYING customer. Unless you buy gems,which is after all YOUR choice. You’re not forced to buy gems to be viable or play the game.

You should really start playing another class.

I think that the law does define someone who purchased a good as a paying customer, that good has to be fit for use too. But your point of “he should play another class” stands 100%.

Consider the following:

1.) Dont play necro if you dont like the profession mechanic, net rest of the gameplay can be imitated on elementalist, mesmer and engie, only with more active defense and mobility.

2.) Post rational critique (e.g. DS cooldown should start on entry to allow a natural flow/clutch use of it and not punish the player, while not ruining flash DS builds).

3.) Help with a bug list thread related to it (Signets not working, any interact past stomp/rez not working in it, entering it interrupting channels not related to skills despite being a instant skill, etc)

4.) Wait for the soon™ to be released changes.

5.) Do you want some cheese with that w(h)ine?

Amazing on everything, Shouts arent really my flavor tho and i would suggest:

Infusing Terror – Duration: 8>10, Fear Duration: 2>1 1/4 (guaranteed stomp every 20s is strong, thus stab def up)

Gravedigger – Recharge: 8>7, Recharge reduced on low health: 100%>75% (while i was wrong on the other post about it being locked in place, its would be a gameplay/decision making change)

Death Spiral – Hit count: 6>5, Number of targets: 3>5 (just for sense of unity with the rest of GS)

Also possible thing: swap of Chilling Force and Augury of Death to reduce break of synergy (also force a choice of personal single target benefit vs aoe benefit) and keep in line with CDR trait power positions.

P.S. Not Life Siphon, Life Transfer, LS is dagger 2.

ronpierce.2760:

Anubis.7058:

Infusing Terror – Duration: 8>10 (thus total 10 stacks of stab over duration), Fear Duration: 2>1 1/4

Gravedigger – Recharge: 8>7, Recharge reduced on low health: 100%>75% (not to be a chain whirl machine), allow movement during cast (seems like you cant with current version of it)

Death Spiral – Hit count: 6>5, Number of targets: 3>5

Nightfall – Cast time: 1/4>3/4, Interval: 1>3 (field duration of 9)

Shouts seem all mostly terrible but the elite which is clearly still deep in development, but probably good and just not my taste.

You can move with Grave Digger. It was confirmed.

The stability is VERY fine at 8 for a 20 second CD. I’d rather keep the fear the same time so I can stab stomp and shatter it for secured stomps/rezzes.

Night fall needs to remain low cast time because of it’s lock-in animation, it self-roots.

Oh ok, ignore the GD part then.
For Stab thats the point, guaranteed fear for stomp is dankingly strong for 20s cd in pvp, thus lower+ making up for cutting a second/two from it depending on setup with 2 more stacks of stability seems fair.
Nightfall well making it easier to interrupt seems ok for the potential power of chain whirls in it and the point presence it gives.

Infusing Terror – Duration: 8>10 (thus total 10 stacks of stab over duration), Fear Duration: 2>1 1/4

Gravedigger – Recharge: 8>7, Recharge reduced on low health: 100%>75% (not to be a chain whirl machine), allow movement during cast (seems like you cant with current version of it)

Death Spiral – Hit count: 6>5, Number of targets: 3>5

Nightfall – Cast time: 1/4>3/4, Interval: 1>3 (field duration of 9)

Shouts seem all mostly terrible but the elite which is clearly still deep in development, but probably good and just not my taste.

Still a amazing job and seems to have taken great care, cant wait to see other fixes (maybe death shroud/reapers shroud starting cooldown on entry? Maybe uncoupling minion traits from other base traits and making choices that will help all allies in aoe (thus working on minions too), maybe removing some trait choices like on fall damage and rez speed?).

Simple, Plague = Corruption skill, Lich either Spectral (which would buff it back to old duration) or Signet (and Passive being something like bonus damage the higher the enemy HP or enemies in aoe get chilled on hit or equivalent-lich like.).

Its better as a trait, but Plague blast cast time+ animation (yes the animation on land does have the little whril of life force, but nowhere near as notable as underwater)+aftercast delay should be used on Life Blast (while the close range base bonus is removed and scaling flat out put to 1.4 since its not a finisher).

Only proxy knowledge of it, but if my bro is correct, “Strawberry, blood sigil on each weapon + vamp runes are enough to outdo all life steal necro got”. Also probably the source of the builds sustain.

EremiteAngel.9765:

good MS in DS. but most importantly, DS can be entered every 6 seconds!

7, tooltip is bugged, CD is 10, 10-30% (aka 3) = 7

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1398/94/1398948413691.png
- Use necro walls to fear trains off ledges into death!
- Use suicide dunk warriors knock people off into death!
- Use stacked Ice bow 4s to flat out murder people with hail chunks dropping out of the sky in a sandstorm… INTO DEATH!
- Use properly positioned Lootstick walls to also bounce people into death!
- Use almost destroyed bridges that you break when a k-train comes… oh you get the point.

All of these options are way more fun, require less people and cause 1000 times more rage than a “ogranized siege defense because they arent playing properly har har har” guild. Just dont kill the solo uplevels if they dont attack you, some people want to get over with leveling for the 5th time fast.

War Mourner.5168:

Numbers pulled out of my kitten not withstanding, does the idea of some thing like this seem interesting?

Path of Corruption
25% chance on crit to corrupt a boon (ICD 5 seconds or whatever)
+10% damage on foes without boons

How about something less sheer numbers and more play change like: If foe has no boons post corruption/after hit effect, next life blast is cast instantly?

Philosophy that needs to be turned into necro: I am selfish, i want more, how better get more than long term raising the standard of others and thus showing off my exceptional skills while making the opponent weak and kittenty.

TLDR: Ayn Rand/Bioshock levels of kitten is needed for that to work which is gonna be op in pvp.

Zefrost.3425:

I’ll just leave this here: August 2011 Dark Path

Anyone else notice a pattern with every class that their original ideas were actually the best ones?

Note
Engineer is getting stability put back onto juggernaut. The last time this trait had stability was August 2012 . The difference now? Now you can have stability while wielding flamethrower and have swiftness with how engineer traits are being adjusted. The old juggernaut had you move slowly . We’ll ignore the fact that it’s 1 stack – stability is stability. (Changes like this happen when devs actually play the class. cough Grouch mains engi cough)

So… honestly? Give us back ground targeted dark path that AOE blinds The “fix” that you made to dark path all those years ago to make it a crappy homing claw needs to be scrapped. We aren’t the necromancer of beta tests that was deemed unkillable, overpowered and invincible.

August 2011 Dark Path please.

We are never going to agree on each others specific examples of trait changes and re-arrangement (but who cares since we are all just trying to fix the necromancer for the better), but there are a few universal changes to the necromancer I think we can all agree on – dark path being one of them.

Didnt they already confirm multiple times in the past that it is too much mobility for a profession that isnt supposed to have mobility (or active defense)?

Tim.6450:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Aktium.9506:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Something crazy like Dark Path steals 1,500 health (doubled if from behind). I’ve always wanted to be a vampire necromancer! Think crazy and fun guys.

That sounds great and all, but you forgot the little part where we can’t be healed in Death Shroud so I’m not sure that trait would work all that well.

Also you misspelled my name in a previous post.

Besides, I tried to think outside the box with some of my suggestions here

Heh, I have a word doc where I’m making my own Blood Magic line and in that I created a minor trait that reads “Life stealing while in death shroud restores your normal health”.

Sorry about the misspell. Fixed it. Long night xD

First healing in ds (certainely what we trait ourselves )should be baseline for several reasons:

-We can’t time our heals. The majority on our heals are tied by triggers the necromancer have little to no control over, so we can’t time our death shroud to fully optimize on the heals.

-our heals are mostly over time: regenration , siphon’s, signet of vampirism, well of blood, … all of them heal the necromancer over time, so a good uptime is needed to be efficient, but we cut in our own uptime by using death shroud and we can’t stop using death shroud, so we are cutting in the efficiency of our healing, making them supbar.

- Other classes don’t have this restriction. SIimple as that necros is the only class with such restrictions on healing.

Opening siphon’s with a minor trait sounds great but it won’t work because we have ton of other heals which suffer the same hindrance of death shroud and again other classes don’t have this requirement.

How about healing at a reduced rate (like only 25% of a heal), but siphons are stronger in DS (regen always fully working)? It would encourage the health/lf manipulation play, but keep people form burst healing while under ds. Or maybe making it a minor in blood magic.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

I’m a bit confused about one point that keeps coming up. Why is Terror “necessary”? Clearly, terror is in every single condition build right now and for good reason. It does a ton of damage and it’s really the only reason those build work. That said, what if I made a trait competing with Terror that said something like “All Death Shroud skills cause 10s of 3 stacks of bleeding every hit.” Terror doesn’t look so necessary anymore right? So why not suggestion some condi trait to fill that slot that can compete with terror instead of making terror baseline, thus removing any possibility of a good condi trait in curses?

Another thing is that a lot of people are saying that there needs to be some sort of power trait in curses. Why does it have to be curses? Why not some sort of vampiric set of traits in blood magic? Something crazy like Dark Path steals 1,500 health (doubled if from behind). I’ve always wanted to be a vampire necromancer! Think crazy and fun guys.

1.) People are saying it because its iconic and people running condi used to burst (doesnt mean its correct tho, but a opinion to keep in mind).

2.) Curses needs power option related to crit since it is/was the crit and condi line, just like spite was/is the burst and control and SR the improve DS/Spectrals (with option for condis for more fear which ties to DS Doom).

3.) Blood magic, while iconic for vampiric effects, also was about energy and general health (not just siphons) control in GW1, thus it would be really nice from both design and player point if minors/things that cannot be picked be universal (same for death magic minors decoupled from minions specifically or another class example, if warrior tactics minors werent tied to reviving people), however option of some masters/grandmasters being heavy vampiric (allies steal life, you steal % health life, minions and wells steal life, people combo finishing off you gain temporary life steal, etc) are probably cool, but important point for new system would be that each choice matters in terms of others competing with it (another other profession example Warrior last stand and cleansing ire).

flow.6043:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Sagat.3285:

Let signet’s passive work in DS

I read this and immediately said “No…It can’t be…They have to work in DS…” Tried it. Wow. Signets don’t work in DS.

Haha, it’s fun when an outsider comes to the necro forum and discovers some of the 3 year old skeletons in our basement.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Death Magic

Soul Comprehension: Honestly, this trait really feels like a waste of a slot. It’s not technically terrible, but the vast majority of life force gains are not from deaths. It’s effect is so minor, it might account for half a percent of total life force gain. I’m betting even less. Either add something to it, or replace it. It is just sooooo inconsequential that if it stopped working, nobody would notice.

I just ran the numbers on this bit here:

On death, you gain about 9% death shroud (it’s a percentage, not a static number). This trait increases this 9% by 20%, thus making it 1.8% more death shroud per death. A single staff auto attack outdoes this trait…by more than double!

It’s actually 10% lf per death, so with Soul Comprehension and Gluttony (SR minor with +10% better lf regen to all sources!) you can sqeeze out an amazing 13.2%. lol

When the devs started necro with saying: we want to get rid of on-death traits because they aren’t useful in actual combat…
I was thinking “aaaw yiss, good bye Soul Comprehension!”
Devs: Soul Comprehension… unchanged, it’s the necros, they need at least one death trait. -_-

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Axe Training: My god, why was this nerfed? Half the builds that currently use Axe don’t even take the trait as it is on live! I cannot fathom the thought process here.
“Hey guys, this trait is never taken. Let’s nerf and pretend we’re creative!” No. Just no. The damage boost, if it is going to be tied to Cripple, either needs to apply to all damage the necro deals or be massively buffed. On top of that, the cooldown reduction is a flat nerf. It’s the same number of auto attacks as it is now between Ghastly Claws casts when traited, but now those autos are necessary for that timing. Horrid, horrid nerf to an already weak trait.

As one of the few axe + Axe Training users, this really is a weird change and a nerf.
I don’t mind the concept of it that much, but yeah, you basically have to constantly auto-attack in between Ghastly Claws to get the same cd reduction as now. And the AA of axe is really just something you do when you have to because everything else is on cooldown.

I suspect that they looked at the new grandmaster trait Spiteful Spirit, and thought of how low the icd could get with Axe Training and perma AA. However, in a real fight you might shave ~1 sec off its cd before you switch weapons or go into Death Shroud.

I like your +damage to all sources idea though.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Terror: This is not strong enough for Grandmaster status as it is. As such, it is the best candidate to remove from the slot and replace with a trait for non-condition damage builds in this slot. My suggestion is to merge it with Master of Terror and move Master of Terror up to Grandmaster in Soul Reaping.

I would agree if it didn’t force every condition build into Soul Reaping.

How about this though:
- Terror becomes baseline or added to one of the minor traits in Curses, but the extra damage for a pre-existing condition on your target is removed.
- Master of Terror gets the +damage for extra condition buff.
- New gm trait for power builds in Curses.

Gluttony only applies to skill generation, not on death.
Isnt Terror baseline then applied to all fears making it not unique? Why not just jump Master of Terror up into curses (internal synergy)? Wouldnt dumping heal on condi into blood make more sense?

Evan Lesh.3295:

If a 4+1 versus a 4+1 is an even match, why shouldn’t we make it? There is no right or wrong answer here, just curious as you seem to not think this is a good idea.

False dichotomy, loaded question and gamblers fallacy, nice roll. Point is we have demonstrable history in both League of Legends and DotA that a pure solo que improves skill sorting (during S3 matchmaking bug for LoL and a decent amount of time in DotA around 2013 if i remember correctly). This does sadly lead to a more fragmented player base and longer que times, which are problems in GW2 already, thus if that is the reason, the side that represents A-net should be honest about it and we understand, but instead of accepting a point and giving a reasonable counter, trying to dodge the issue with something that is flat out shown not to be true and saying “no real answer” isnt a actual answer.

Bhawb.7408:

I feel like the only thing holding it back is the lack of other signets being very good. The SoL activation alone heals for 970(0.5) (according to wiki) per person hit, which is a 5k heal, up to around 8k if you have high healing power, and can be activated up to twice every 24s. In teamfights you’re looking at having two extra healing skills available to you.

Thats why it should be normalized between healing and damage portion, buff damage up to WoC level, nerf healing to 75% of it.

Sagat.3285:

Anubis.7058:

Sagat.3285:

This is actually what we are trying to change… No boons=/=no active defense, DS=no active defense. Why are you here if you want that??

Edit: It’s the main issue we are trying to fix….

Defense is what is trying to be fixed, not boons, you are making a false dichotomy here.

I am pretty I did not bolded the boon portion of his answer…unless of course if dodging doesn’t count as active defense anymore.

You said its the only way to get active defense so point stands.

Sagat.3285:

This is actually what we are trying to change… No boons=/=no active defense, DS=no active defense. Why are you here if you want that??

Edit: It’s the main issue we are trying to fix….

Defense is what is trying to be fixed, not boons, you are making a false dichotomy here.

spoj.9672:

I have a bunch of suggestions in my analysis for each traitline on the feedback thread. Ill link them here and summarise below.

Spite
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Spec-Notes-Feedback/first#post5002071

• Move Bitter Chill to curses grandmaster and buff it to give +10% damage on chilled foes.
• Siphoned power needs the internal cooldown removed completely. Make it 1 stack of might with no internal cooldown and it can be a decent trait in its new implementation.
• Spiteful spirit needs its internal cooldown removed aswell. Its locked to DS entry which is 10 or 7 second cooldown. So there is no need for an extra ICD to restrict it further. Also make it a blast finisher so players have a reason to take it over CtD (Add the blast finisher to axe 3 while your at it and maybe warhorn 4? ;>).

Curses
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Spec-Notes-Feedback/first#post5002137

• Remove the self weaken from toxic landing.
• Remove the ICD from weakening shroud.
• Delete Reapers Precision and move one of the condi grandmaster traits down to replace it. I would personally suggest move lingering down. That way you make a choice of sustain or terror burst in the grandmaster slot.
• Add a new power focused grandmaster. My suggestion is a buffed Bitter Chill (see above).
• Alternative solution is to bring back Withering Precision but make its ICD per target instead of a global ICD. And add something extra to it to make it worth the slot.

Death Magic
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Spec-Notes-Feedback/page/2#post5003966

• Make Greater Marks baseline.
• Give us an active defense trait to replace it. I suggest entering DS gives you vigor.
• Move either Necromantic Corruption or Death Nova down to master tier. Having two minion grandmasters in death magic gives non minion builds no choice but to take Unholy Sanctuary.
• Add a new grandmaster. Something defensive but active. So maybe entering DS makes you reflect/block projectiles for a few seconds.

Blood Magic
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Spec-Notes-Feedback/page/2#post5004054

• Remove Vampiric from the minors.
• Make Deathly Invigoration a minor instead and return it to heal on DS exit.
• Move Quickening Thirst to adept and remove Bloodthirst. Remove the movement speed bonus and add +5% damage with daggers (above a health threshold if needed).
• Add vampiric to the master tier. Make this the only siphon trait we have but buff it accordingly.
• Add a new master trait which transfers conditions on lifeblast or through some other method. So we can synergise with Unholy Martyr.
• Remove the siphon from Vampiric Rituals. Siphons should only be from Vampiric.
• With Deathly Invigoration becoming a minor we have a free grandmaster. Add a new grandmaster which allows outside sources of healing to effect the Necro inside DS.

Soul Reaping
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Spec-Notes-Feedback/page/2#post5004104

• Buff the CDR on Vital Persistance/Path of Midnight to 20%.

1. Wouldnt Bitter Chill have more synergy (and able to stay in Spite) if Death Shiver caused Chill?

2. Isnt it flat out bad that Siphoned power relies mostly on the enemy?

3. Why not make Spiteful Spirit actual GW1 Spiteful Spirit? Enemies that attack (you) deal damage around them (and to themselves), current proposed one just encourages discarding DS for flashing it.

4. Why, doesnt that just make both a option? Also wouldnt something like Death Perception make a good Curse GM? Both helps with DS and power.

5. Isnt the point of necro not to have many boons, especially not active defense, so vigor goes against that.

6. DM (despite the fact that minors for both DM and BM should be universal, not balanced for minions) is still a minion mostly line, makes sense to have 2 minion GMs, just like it makes sense to have 2 direct damage in spite and 2 health/healing/siphon related in BM.

7. Wouldnt multiple vampiric traits allow for better specialization? Maybe all 3 as grandmaster slot, thus either minions siphon, crits siphon for some defense (or give a shield or something) and some sort of tank siphoning/indirect team support siphon?

8. The idea of condi transfer life blast, why not for Soul Reaping GMs to be all life blast versions (current Renewing blast is a cool idea, even if not very practical), so like: Healing AoE thingy Guard tome like “blast”, Underwater Life Blast or “Dhuumfire Blast” as meaningful options for SR?

Kain Francois.4328:

I thought everyone on reddit was demanded a fancy unisex tuxedo? Now people are flip-flopping AGAIN?

geez…

I still want a unisex tux (tho more symmetrical and without kitten on it, aka like debonair vi in league) for all races.

sorrychief.2563:

zapv.8051:

They have less hp fair enough, they also have stealth, invulns, and vigor uptime to more than make up for that.

you just kinda copied what I wrote except you’re further reinforcing everything that permits the low base HP classes to have these extra tools in order to survive.

if you give necro evades and vigor, you would surely have to give thief more base HP to compensate!

zapv.8051:

Really, eles don’t have soft cc?

well now you’re just be a silly goose and not reading my prior post throughly.

zapv.8051:

Mesmers don’t have a lot of soft cc, but have way more hard cc than any other class. Guess you haven’t ever played a lockdown mesmer.

that’s a pretty weak argument and doesn’t validate much besides the fact “I haver never played this specific mesmer build which does this specific function while comparing it to another class in general”.

spot on though.

zapv.8051:

Also no class should have to pair up with another class to have sustain.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Water_field
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blast_finisher

just remove all synergy and call it “League of Legend(s)”. game has 1 class with every ability so nobody can complain their class is weaker/stronger.

zapv.8051:

Teamplay is great, but babysitting isn’t teamplay, it is poor design.

Babysitting under your terms infer there is active teamplay happening regardless.
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Role#Support
http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=351

Unless teamplay is bad in a game called ‘Guild Wars’?

So many fallacies.

A) Active defense to avoid damage vs active agression to replenish damage done can be compared, necro lack it (hard). Thats why noone in their right mind is proposing mass evades *cough death blossom/WD/fstrike/4 dodges instead of 2 like thief * or block spam *like pretty much everything guardian *, but real siphon + synergy with DS.

B) Not true, if a build exists which can do something based on its skill options and intended mechanics, you have it, in contrast to for exmaple mesmers which can both go into very very deep condi removal and hard cc, necros can never build/give up other factors of their play (like for example reducing your own life force potential) to get actual mobility or self sustain (self is important here since with current broken ai, MM got the numbers for “compensation” to do it right)

C) No profession depends on ally combo fields to function, those with skill cap increase by them (ele and engie) have solo functionality to sustain it, necro dont, thus no its not teamplay to finish your own combo fields.

D) League of Legends (and Dota) have some of the highest team synergy aspects of all games *cough Dragonball and Epic-hole respectively winning quite a lot of tournaments during their meta time * yet almost all (soraka in league and io in dota) characters are self sufficient.

E) GW2 isnt designed in a “mage carry, warrior tank, drood support” lineup, thus is not part of teamplay, but bad design choice of a specific profession.

Isnt a equally important thing to make signets work in DS?

Just to mention perception of mobility * like wurm and swalk * vs actual mobility * instant gap closer/escape like LoF, SL, Shadowstep or Lighting flash* are not the same, do not equate them.