Guild Wars 2

Malchior.5732:

BlackDevil.9268:

If you wanna nerf viper rev, there are many more options you can go for. Why nerf something that instantly hits every build?
Get some work on the unlisted unblockable perm resistance immunity embrace the darkness first and nerf banish enchantment slightly. It’s way too strong for such low energy cost.

So you want to nerf Mallyx harder (who’s only functioning because he runs three specific trait lines) instead of just getting rid of the cancer perma-stability that only Viper Rev’s are really using?
A trait that also makes no sense in the Herald line?
Get rid of the problem directly, change Mallyx accordingly so he’s not garbage without it.

Wait… I don’t really understand your logic at this point:
You want a trait nerfed that is OP ‘’only on viper rev’’ (this is nonsense, since any rev with any build on herald should use this trait in sPvP)
You don’t want to nerf traits/skills that create a much bigger part of the specific viper rev build which make it OP.

OK.
I can already tell you, with so many blocks and evades, that’s not gonna hurt Rev much. They can just take the 25% shield block trait, which is even better when fighting more zerkery setups that can 1 shot you. Any good rev will just evade big CC’s anyway or will get supported by their teammates to get out. This change wont do anything about the strength of viper rev. It only makes it a bit less noob-friendly

The trait is good, I agree, but that’s what grandmaster traits are for. An ICD is possible so a rev can’t instantly stack 4 stacks by double dodging. Double dodging for such things should rather be punished, which I agree on.

If you wanna nerf viper rev, there are many more options you can go for. Why nerf something that instantly hits every build?
Get some work on the unlisted unblockable perm resistance immunity embrace the darkness first and nerf banish enchantment slightly. It’s way too strong for such low energy cost.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

You’re preaching to the choir. I’ve written many threads about bringing back solo que but guess what? It’s not going to happen.

It’s time to start taking a different approach as a solo que player:

• Don’t expect reasonable win rates as a solo que in a game that is now designed for team que. After all, the game is named: “Guild Wars”. Playing as a solo que is completely at your own risk.
• Don’t like being on TS3? Only play once or twice a week? Cool but you should still be finding a guild of other casual players who want to form teams for spvp. Get to it, start doing it, even if they don’t use TS3. The chemistry built will be worth the investment.
• Remember that you are responsible for your own level of participation within the community. Not joining a guild that can teach you and provide players to team up with, is your own choice.

I can’t even describe how much your bullet points lack arguments or totally miss the point that the system is horrible.

First of all, a game should never be build around teams. You should be able, especially in an mmorpg, to go into the game and do your own stuff without being forced to find other players to play with. Being forced to do so will scare away many people and your game just remains with X (mostly low number) teams constantly fighting eachother cause there is no one left.

You should also never be put in a position where you are dragging down your team just because you want to play solo. Solo players fight solo players, team players fight teams. That’s how things should be, not a mix of that.

Not joining a guild, playing casually or not trying to improve your own skill surely is your own decision, but that means you should also be put in a game with people being the exact same. That’s the whole point of MMR, so you face people that are around your skill level, not people that are way above or way below that or in the worst cases: teams that are way above yours, which often is the case currently.

And just by knowing a soloq system isn’t coming back, praising a much worse system to be good isn’t gonna make the game any better for the rest of the people. It’s nice that someone actually can see the positive of the system, but at least use some proper arguments why you think it’s so nice.

Oh and P.S., you might wanna wiki that ‘’guild wars’’ thing you wrote. I can give you a tip: it’s not related to PvP.

deda.8302:

Why is there no skill in playing bunker mes?
I must say first im not best mechanicly and im not counting my self very good player ,just good.
We had match with mirror teams (my mes is bit different than classic bunker mes but its not the point)
So 2xmes ,rev scraper and reaper in each team .
I died once had most resurections,condi clear and some other top stat i dont even remember ,since its not so important.
Any group fight on my node we won,at the end of the match enemy team mesmers pm me that im good .
This is happening in spphire league so im not top notch and my oponents are not.

But why is that in esl matches mirror tems get trashed by same comp?
There is still skill needed(or expiriance with class) and you cant exactly have same rotation for ever.
Admitedly less skill than it was before .

Playing tempest aura requires much less concentration and team /enemy averness than bunk mes.

I still think that some pro teams are holding back true team comps for finals

When people say theres no skill involved with a certain build, then they mean it requires little to no knowlegde about the class mechanics to do well on a class.
Mastering a class, however, does require skill. As for things like bunker mesmer, you don’t need to know much about the class to do well, but there will always be someone that has a better CD management than you.

Also, when you’re looking at games and mirror comps, the win is usually decided by better rotations in game, rather than personal skill. If you can survive long enough and have better rotations (Around the map that is, not personal skill rotations) than the other team, you’re most likely the team to win the game.

Well.. that’s kinda one of the things people are really complaining about. You can’t just randomly hit a target twice and oneshot him. That should just only be caused if the enemy makes the mistake, not if the caster has a lucky shot. Cause like you say, it’s very ’’hard’’ to position yourself just correctly to hit it twice. So such things rather become more RNG than actual skill of a player. This is also something that barely happens in sPvP, but rather more often in WvW. So the nerf for spvp would be quite limited. Especially with the bug fixes and buffs I mentioned above, it shouldn’t even be noticable.

As for #3, 9/10 max range hits easily in WvW. As for sPvP, that’s just really situational. It’s not a skill that has a bonus effect once you use it further away. So can better look at the amount of times you can actually hit it. I personally find #3 more of a support-ish tool due to its variety to use it.

Burtnik.5218:

BlackDevil.9268:

Burtnik.5218:

BlackDevil.9268:

You can’t actually tell me you think this is a nice and well designed weapon, just because you can deal good damage with it. It’s clunky, full of bugs and has boring and easy made up skills.

Which weapon is hard to use and bug free?

There’s no weapon in the game that is hard to use. A very wierd question honestly since skills in this game aren’t designed to be hard to use.
As for bug free: None, but basically any weapon has less bugs than hammer on revenant.

Sword mh is just as bugged as hammer. In general nearly all rev stuff suffer from the same issue – we have to fight not olny with the enemy, but also with terrain cause someone decided its cool idea to release tons of abilities that will never hit on unevent terrain. Even chaotic release miss on stairs.

I would like to hear what you would change on hammer tho. I personally find it fine as it is. Mace by far is the worst weapon for me.

I wasn’t astonished that #3 was bugged and still is. The way it works must have required a lot of engine work and the more engine it has, the easier things bug out. But I personally don’t see #3 bug as big as all the things that hammer has wrong now. Range indicators being off and a skill being able to hit twice are just general scaling issues. Such things are very impactful for a skill and can literally be the difference between op and not op.

Mace is, just like hammer, another weapon that is very situational and only really useful in 1 game mode. Funny enough is that mace is actually balanced for the game mode where it’s being used. What could be a change to mace is to change the fire field to 3 small fields like warrior F1 longbow in beserker. This way a condi rev might become viable in PvE too on certain bosses like gorseval.

Anyway, there are many options for hammer to improve and change on.

• #1, the auto attack, is in a decent state. It’s a bit slow for an auto attack but damage is alright so I wouldnt really change anything with this. However, if nerfs come big a buff could be given to #1, making it gain might upon hit for a very short duration. Giving more might the more targets it hits.
• #2: CoR 100% needs a nerf. Make it impossible to hit a stationary target twice, apply red circles so people with ‘’effect LOD’’ checked can actually see the skill better to make it easier to dodge when the fight is already chaotic and increase either the cooldown to 4 seconds or increase the cost to 10.
• #3: Decent skill but it’s skill cap can be increased easily. First of all, there should be a red circle present to the landing place so its easier to tell when someone you don’t see leaps from 1200 units. With a correct combo you can pull off an easy 15k damage aoe combo. Something like that shouldn’t go unseen if you don’t got your eye on the revenant. Secondly, it should become possible to use instant casting skills while the channeling. Like that you can pull off a combo where you can use your Gaze of darkness on for example a shadow refuge if you’re not fast enough to get there by moving. It can also save your life by casting your glint heal during the cast if you notice you’ll die during the cast by conditions or retaliation. The moment you allow more skills to be instant cast (which some skills seriously should be Imo) this gains a lot more play and combo’s.
• #4: I still remain from the beta’s that this skill should be instant cast. Hammer is a slow weapon but that doesn’t mean every single skill should be designed to be slow. Projectile reflects or especially absorb skills should always be fast casting skills. The thing is that currently you rather blow your dodge or your #3 to dodge a projectile like pin down. This is just so wierd if you have a projectile absorb. This would also make it possible to cast it during #3 with the change I purposed and that way you could leap in and block projectiles for an ally and you’re not in range to do so.
• #5: Fix the bugs, apply a red aoe circle and reduce casting time from 1.75 -> 1.25. The red circle allows it easier to dodge, while the reduced casting time makes it easier to land and also makes the skill less clunky, therefor makes the weapon less clunky.

Burtnik.5218:

BlackDevil.9268:

You can’t actually tell me you think this is a nice and well designed weapon, just because you can deal good damage with it. It’s clunky, full of bugs and has boring and easy made up skills.

Which weapon is hard to use and bug free?

There’s no weapon in the game that is hard to use. A very wierd question honestly since skills in this game aren’t designed to be hard to use.
As for bug free: None, but basically any weapon has less bugs than hammer on revenant.

lmaogg.7325:

BlackDevil.9268:

lmaogg.7325:

BlackDevil.9268:

Xiisty.2974:

BlackDevil.9268:

Hammer currently is only very dominant in WvW,.

That is the entire point, I know devs aren’t really looking much into WvW to balance their class and if this skill isn’t really a problem for the two others game mode, it is absolutely ruining one and it Needs to be changed.

.

I get that, but many people here are asking for a nerf.
You can’t nerf something that’s not overpowered. With this I mean the total vision of the hammer. #2 is strong, but that doesnt make it a well designed weapon. The weapon is so incredibly standard it reminds me of very early game design.
Like seriously, look at the skills:

• #1: singlular auto attack with no variety
• #2: Long range aoe damage. The fact that it pulses 3 times is the most suprising..
• #3: A skill that could’ve been amazing, but left alone just as an evade and damage skill.
• #4: Slow casting projectile absorbtion skill. The only thing that sets this apart from early game design is that it moves with you.
• #5: Aoe stun with an immense casting time.

The graphic effects of these skills are so not in line with the peformance effects. They just made something flashy of a pile of garbage and gave it some guns to look pretty.

What needs to be done is a rework for literally all skills besides maybe the auto attack.

What? Strong but not overpowered? dude quit trying to defend it. I played revenant hammer myself and even I find it overpowered. Its a freaking 1200 range aoe nuke that does wayyyyy too much damage for a 2sec cooldown with a cost of literally nothing.

Hammer 1 is a simple AA that flies straight and not curve like arrow projectiles. Great aoe cleave. Hammer 3 is a freaking free dodge with a long invul window, not to mention it does good damage as well. These skills are in fact wonderful kits for hammer, except for hammer 2 which is totally BS.

And that’s the exact reason its so strong in spvp, right?

Might suggest you to read further than the first sentence. Might helps to understand the actual problem instead of ‘’so vvvveeerrryryyystrongweapon omg too op nerf plox’‘. That’s not how you balance in a game, nor how you should give feedback.

And I already gave my feedback regarding the other skills for hammers, they are great utilities. If everyone is making a fuss over that particular skill which is hammer2, obviously there is something wrong with it.

Except that they are not ’’great’’ utilities. They are not even close to what sword and staff can bring to the table in spvp. The fact that they deal damage in WvW is because people don’t notice the skill because there’s barely any telling where it will deal the damage. The counterplay in a smaller setup is so much bigger, which make the skills look like garbage.

So yes, in WvW they are decent skills, but there’s so much wrong with them. Let’s just list up a few facts:

• No aoe rings, while being ranged aoe skills
• #2 can deal 2 ticks of damage on a stationary target
• #3 cancels when you try to swap weapon, but it doesnt swap your weapon
• #5 goes on full cooldown if you cancel the attack after 1/4th of the casting time
• #5 cancels casting if you click certain skills like your elite during the cast
• #1 hits much further than 1200 units
• #2 max range hits less than 1200 units
• #3 doesnt allow instant casting skills to be casted during the casting time, while any other skill does
• #3 still evades for the remaining time if you get canceled by CC during the cast.
• #2 and #3 both bug out on uneven terrain half of the time

You can’t actually tell me you think this is a nice and well designed weapon, just because you can deal good damage with it. It’s clunky, full of bugs and has boring and easy made up skills.

lmaogg.7325:

BlackDevil.9268:

Xiisty.2974:

BlackDevil.9268:

Hammer currently is only very dominant in WvW,.

That is the entire point, I know devs aren’t really looking much into WvW to balance their class and if this skill isn’t really a problem for the two others game mode, it is absolutely ruining one and it Needs to be changed.

.

I get that, but many people here are asking for a nerf.
You can’t nerf something that’s not overpowered. With this I mean the total vision of the hammer. #2 is strong, but that doesnt make it a well designed weapon. The weapon is so incredibly standard it reminds me of very early game design.
Like seriously, look at the skills:

• #1: singlular auto attack with no variety
• #2: Long range aoe damage. The fact that it pulses 3 times is the most suprising..
• #3: A skill that could’ve been amazing, but left alone just as an evade and damage skill.
• #4: Slow casting projectile absorbtion skill. The only thing that sets this apart from early game design is that it moves with you.
• #5: Aoe stun with an immense casting time.

The graphic effects of these skills are so not in line with the peformance effects. They just made something flashy of a pile of garbage and gave it some guns to look pretty.

What needs to be done is a rework for literally all skills besides maybe the auto attack.

What? Strong but not overpowered? dude quit trying to defend it. I played revenant hammer myself and even I find it overpowered. Its a freaking 1200 range aoe nuke that does wayyyyy too much damage for a 2sec cooldown with a cost of literally nothing.

Hammer 1 is a simple AA that flies straight and not curve like arrow projectiles. Great aoe cleave. Hammer 3 is a freaking free dodge with a long invul window, not to mention it does good damage as well. These skills are in fact wonderful kits for hammer, except for hammer 2 which is totally BS.

And that’s the exact reason its so strong in spvp, right?

Might suggest you to read further than the first sentence. Might helps to understand the actual problem instead of ‘’so vvvveeerrryryyystrongweapon omg too op nerf plox’‘. That’s not how you balance in a game, nor how you should give feedback.

Xiisty.2974:

BlackDevil.9268:

Hammer currently is only very dominant in WvW,.

That is the entire point, I know devs aren’t really looking much into WvW to balance their class and if this skill isn’t really a problem for the two others game mode, it is absolutely ruining one and it Needs to be changed.

.

I get that, but many people here are asking for a nerf.
You can’t nerf something that’s not overpowered. With this I mean the total vision of the hammer. #2 is strong, but that doesnt make it a well designed weapon. The weapon is so incredibly standard it reminds me of very early game design.
Like seriously, look at the skills:

• #1: singlular auto attack with no variety
• #2: Long range aoe damage. The fact that it pulses 3 times is the most suprising..
• #3: A skill that could’ve been amazing, but left alone just as an evade and damage skill.
• #4: Slow casting projectile absorbtion skill. The only thing that sets this apart from early game design is that it moves with you.
• #5: Aoe stun with an immense casting time.

The graphic effects of these skills are so not in line with the peformance effects. They just made something flashy of a pile of garbage and gave it some guns to look pretty.

What needs to be done is a rework for literally all skills besides maybe the auto attack.

Hold on…
You can’t just nerf something before looking at the bigger picture.
Hammer currently is only very dominant in WvW, a game modes where the game isn’t balanced around in the first place. While #2 is very strong, it doesnt show any superiorness in any other game mode. Hammer doesn’t come close to the highest dps weapon and it’s not meta in sPvP. This is due a few things:

• It’s too slow
• It bugs out on ‘’un-even’’ terrain, with half of it’s skills
• It doesn’t really provide much besides damage. Sure it has two blast finishers and an evade, but these are very slow skills and have a fairly high cooldown.

Another thing that is worth noting, is that it’s the only ranged weapon. Arenanet can’t just go on and massively nerf this weapon, since it will take a major part away of the class if they over-do so.

So with all these things combined, the only way of nerfing #2 is by buffing the other skills. A cooldown increase on #2 would at least be appropriate.

You mean like how mesmer, thief and engineer can do the same? Yeah, totally op. Nerf all!

draxynnic.3719:

BlackDevil.9268:

• Pain Absorption: Costs too much energy or it either needs an increased self-resistance per condition, or an increased AoE duration of resistance per condition transfered. Now Conditions are only transfered in a very minor way due RNG-trait, the conditions actually hurt you more by using this skill than you being able to make use of it.

I found it quite useful as a means of effectively being able to ignore soft-CCs like immobilise, usually until they expired. While pulling conditions in exchange for resistance can be risky, the more conditions you pull the more you get, and it can be more reliable at times than a condition clear when the condition you really wanted to clear gets instantly reapplied (hello, Entangle!). I wouldn’t complain with tweaking of the numbers, and/or a reversion of EtD to have condition spread (if your team has too much condition removal, spend the energy on other skills instead), but I think the fundamentals are good.

I do agree it can be good for such short duration, but I just don’t see why you would use 30 energy for something that could potentially kill or damage you a lot 5-6 seconds later. Especially in team fights, such things can be rather risky.
The reason the energy was allowed to be so high before the nerfs was because you could reach certain thresholds to apply more pressure.
Now you’re just giving up quite a lot pressure for a risky defensive ability.

BlackDevil.9268:

• Dismantle Fortifications is not worth it compared to the other grandmasters in devastation. The only skill that reslly benifits from this trait is Surge of the Mist which is fairly easy to dodge and hard to hit all 9 times. My addition to this trait would be to gain 1 stack of stability for 6 seconds when succesfully removing a stack of stability (5 sec icd). The current effect would still be without icd.

draxynnic.3719:

I think this is intended as a PvP trait. It basically means that if your opponent has a single stack of stability and think they’re safe, you can still interrupt them. Or if they have multiple stacks, you can drain them much more quickly. I don’t think it’s as bad as you make out, particularly since every revenant set has something on it that will strip stability stacks before you even get to legend skills.

Well, the problem I quite have with that, is the fact that barely any stability source used in sPvP has only 1 stack.

• Stand your ground – 5
• Balanced Stace – 5
• Armor of earth -10
  Only ‘’Indomitable Courage’’ from guardian applies 1 stability stack basically. So only if your team already is quite CC heavy, I could see it being possible to strip off the boon, but otherwise you would either not remove the boon by yourself or you have a mesmer/necro to do that for you (or in case of mallyx you can even do it yourself).
  So this is really a WvW trait that allows you to rush through the stability stacking with #5 staff, but that really is the only use of it.
  While this is also a very strong combo so it’s hard to balance around that (But honestly WvW isnt really balanced anyway…). Comparing these to the other 2 traits, it’s a really big damage and sustain factor you’re giving up for such little in return. Honestly, the other 2 GM are just very good, this one is just a cool trait, but it’s functionality is rather something for a master trait.

Shiro-glint usually runs retribution and invocation so CC shouldnt be a too big problem.
As for condition specs: Counter them, rather than letting yourself getting countered.
Due revenants versatility, they can moreless counter anything as long as they play it correctly. This is also why you usually don’t use certain skills in a 1v1 against a power spec, but do use vs a condi matchup.
As for countering condition specs: CC. As Shiro-glint you can easily go (if axe) #5 Axe into shiro stun. Keep your evades for if he’s not stunned and predict the condition burst well. So rather learn what to evade and how to safely stun your enemy (aka baiting/waiting for dodges) than trying to learn certain combo’s.

Traits:

Herald:

• Bolster Fortifications doesn’t fit with the herald healing at all so I don’t see why this is in the herald line. It pretty much reduces the healing gain by 33%. It’s a nice trait with ventari, so this could need a change.

Salvation:

• Disarming Riposte seems pretty useless and needs some serious icd-reduction (10sec or so) to be noticeable.
• Nourishing Roots needs it’s regen duration be increased to 3 seconds base or just changed to a -10% damage reduction when being near the tablet to up to 5 allies.
• Tranquil Benediction is not worth picking and would need might of 3 seconds added to it or a 1second duration protection or fury added to be worth.
• Eluding Nullification’s ICD is way too long and should be around 2 seconds to prevent people from double dodging, but still having that nice condition removal on dodge with certainty. Currently 10 sec is just way too random.

Retribution:

• Improved Aggression: Pve Trait, might be useful with HoT content? Currently isn’t useful as far as I’m concerned anywhere.
• Steadfast Rejuvenation is a pretty boring grandmaster trait and totally not impressive. Should get a buff in my opinion.

Invocation:

• Charged Mist is too hard to use imo. Rather have it that it gives might when you use a skill above 50 energy and not just when it drops below 50.
• Cruel Repercussion is a bit of a wierd trait for the revenant as you dont really have a hard single hitting skill besides maybe something on hammer or staff 2. Though even if you notice a skill has been negated, you already used the buff due the fast attacking of the revenant. I would rather have the buff apply 3 times 25% and maybe even have a lower ICD.

Devastation:

• Malicious Reprisal is just horrible since the icd is way too long and (havent tested this but thought by logic) if it procs with aegis its useless.
• Nefarious Momentum is kinda unnoticeable since you dont and cant really use many shiro stance skills. the might stacks per skill could be increased but I highly doubt if that will increase the quality of the trait.
• Dismantle Fortifications is not worth it compared to the other grandmasters in devastation. The only skill that reslly benifits from this trait is Surge of the Mist which is fairly easy to dodge and hard to hit all 9 times. My addition to this trait would be to gain 1 stack of stability for 6 seconds when succesfully removing a stack of stability (5 sec icd). The current effect would still be without icd.

Weapons:

Sword:
Please remove the projectile (Brutal blade) from this auto attack, or at least make it so you continue with your chain once you fail this skill or if it get’s reflected. It’s a fun concept but it fails too often. (fixing terrain problems would also be a big fix for the skill)

• Grasping Shadow: Still feels a bit buggy and clunky to ’’pull’’ off, if you get what I mean huehue…

Hammer: Not really a worthy weapon in spvp imo due to it’s slow behaviour but useful in WvW so hard to balance. Casting time and damage could be reduced to make it more in-line maybe, but much more than that is just making the weapon very wierd.

Staff:

• Punishing Sweep: A bit too slow and hard to hit. Could still need a casting time reduction to 0,5 seconds. Full #2 chain already takes about 1.5 seconds with after-cast included.
• Renewing Wave: Is this skill supposed to not cleanse conditions on yourself? Cause I found myself not removing conditions way too often when using this skill.

Revenant has it’s pro’s and cons, but what I dislike is the fact that the real pro, only lies in two certain hero’s: Herald and shiro. The rest just currently lacks quite a bit. I hooked off from condition really fast when my condition output was really not worth it and not even came close to the damage and sustain I was able to gain through shiro-herald marauder.
I have also played some Healing-support Venetari-Herrald for quite a few hours and got a way to make it work and won some 2v3/2v4 with a reaper along with me. I basically got to heal him up to 100% the moment he pops out of DS while I kiting and CCing during his DS. Though I have to admitt, these opponents weren’t very good and once I got to fight better players you could easily notice how poor the support was, partly due the fact that the healings of ventari are very slow, with quite a big cost and very risky.

I’ll start with the worst (in my opinion) legendary stance: Ventari:
Can we finally remove some clunkyness from this stance? The tablet is absolutely horrible to move around. And while that is not only the problem, it’s also at an amazingly high cost. Only by spamming my tablet and some weapon skills I’m already very low on energy. This, along with the very slow and risky healing (very small radius) makes it a very high risk-low reward mechanic.

• The tablet at first needs to be much faster. This has been suggested many times and I honestly don’t see why this is a problem. It removes a lot clunky-ness from the tablet and makes it easier to move.
  Along with this the cooldown needs to be reduced to 1 second, the energy cost lowered to 5 and the base healing also reduced by a half. Obviously you can’t just spam 2.5k healings on a 1 second cooldown so cutting the heal in half is more than fine. And seriously guys, why can’t it become instant cast? I would also like to cast more than just my tablet constantly. It would also synergyze much better with #8, due that actually does cast while you’re casting skills. I’m sometimes stuck casting the skill but then I realise I have to give up my casting of whatever I’m casting (say, #3 sword) to move my dog… eh.. tablet to the position I want to.

As for the utility skills:

• Protective Solace: Well.. Ehm.. Water field maybe? The absorbtion is at a very high cost. I really dislike light fields, as they are rather screwing up the field blasting in all forms of the game than actually helping them. Rather remove the light field from this skill, increase the cooldown to 10 seconds, reduce energy cost to 5 or 6 and upon exploding the projetile shield, give a waterfield based on the duration you have kept up the barier.
  So say you have kept up the barier for 10 seconds and you release the barier, you will get a waterfield for 5 seconds. Don;t make the radius too big though. 240 or 360 is big enough since the blasting of water also adds another radius of 360.
  With a cooldown of 10 seconds you can’t just spam it for waterfields, and let’s be honest: we have more than enough projectile obsorption skills. We really don’t need this on a 5 seconds cd.

• Natural Harmony: Ugh, radius… Honestly all radius skills of ventari are way too risky and allies most likely run out of your healing before they notice it. This could really need an improvement, if not done by a trait that increases the radius.

• Purifying Essence: Same goes for this skill basically. Radius too big. Energy cost could be reduced to 25, but not required.

• Energy Expulsion: This skill seems much more useful now it’s 35 energy cost instead of 50 and found myself use it often as support when I had nothing to heal but rather attribute by CCing.

Mallyx:
The unique-ness of this legend has been removed completely and replaced with some mid-tier condition spec. The elite doesnt seem to have much effect and the legend really is only good if you fight someone with lots of boons.

• Pain Absorption: Costs too much energy or it either needs an increased self-resistance per condition, or an increased AoE duration of resistance per condition transfered. Now Conditions are only transfered in a very minor way due RNG-trait, the conditions actually hurt you more by using this skill than you being able to make use of it.

• Banish Enchantment: Decent skill. Not a big ‘’wow-factor’‘, but does it’s job by removing boons as revenant doesnt really have access to that.

• Unyielding Anguish: so-so. It’s not an amazing skill but then again it does contribute to the pressure and mobility you can have. Energy could be reduced maybe to 25 as 30 feels a bit too much for this skill. Could also be lowered to 20 and have a short cooldown to prevent spamming.

• Embrace the Darkness: Well… Just no. 10% is not really noticeable, energy cost is not too high for an elite skill but the functionality is not good for an elite skill. Elite skills are supposed to be strong with high cost. This is just another utility skill with some nice effects. Even Protective solance costs more than this ’’elite’’ skill… Ehh.. Let’s move on?

Legendary King Jalis, hail the king!
Or let’s not, shall we? This ’’king’’ is most certainly not the king of all revenant stances due a few things: The stun break is very off and is practically useless. The stability is unreliable and almost useless. This is a massive factor that a tanky-support role needs. Something herald can actually provide akwardly enough…

• Inspiring Reinforcement: Well this is not such kittene as many poeople already suggested: Stability on inital cast, pulsing stability road when layed down. This skill is so static and so bad, I don’t really know if I should cry or laugh when I get stopped 1v1 against a downed player because my road is still building to finish. I can’t wait nearly 2 seconds for stability that lasts shorter than the actual time to get it. I can better stomp someone and blind them at the right time in… drum sound herald! At least lovely herald is reliable… Another thing to note: This skill should seriously become instant cast and gain the stun break of the elite. It just doesn’t work on a 1.25 sec casting time, you know?

• Forced Engagement: Honestly, I didn’t really get my hands on using this, since there is practically any other skill similar but better than this skill in any other stance. Apart from that, you most likely wanna use jalis for the elite and possibly the hammers. By then you shouldn’t really have much energy to even remotely use this skill.

• Vengeful Hammers: Still love this skill. No complaints besides the wall/terrain bug where it fails to continue casting.

• Rite of the ’’Great’’ Dwarf: Could just easily add 50% condition damage reduction to this too since the hammers has it too and the skill seriously could get a minor buff. Stun break would be removed and replaced to inspiring reinforcement.

No comments on shiro and herald as they are well balanced and might even get some minor nerfs if needed

@Sarif

Ok, while I agree with the overarching goal, I disagree on the given numbers on the matter.
Cut the heal in half? Or MORE?! You just got done saying you felt like the support wasn’t enough vs. decent Pvp’ers! I agree with the movement speed, and the cost reduction (Hell I think the tablet should just spawn when you swap to this legend in the first place, for free.) but less than half the healing? That would render this unusable for anyone outside of a healing build and gear.

Have you actually read the full thing? Cut the CD in half, energy cost in half and instant cast with 1/2 of the healing it has now. If you would have these things including the heal it does now, you would be able to burst out 2-2.5k HPS, excluding the healings you do during this time. That’s just way over the top. It’s clunky to have a casting time and a fairly noticeable cooldown aaand such slow movement on the tablet. And honestly, some legends are just bound to a certain build of your statts. You can’t tell me you actually would use ventari over any other legend with a dps or condi spec…

Sarif.1827:

Ok, Ummm… No.
I’m sure you know this, but giving Rev a Water Field is not happening. The whole reason it’s a light field is to keep people from planting a 10-15 second water field in WvW and making it nearly impossible to kill anyone! I would also argue your claim of a CD increase. I can think of a few time this last BWE that I really could have used a faster CD on Solace. Also, if you think the cost is high, clearly you haven’t had problems with Projectiles in this game.

The cost is 8, that’s immensely high for an upkeep skill, let alone for a skill that practically does the exact same as #4 hammer. First of all, waterfields don’t just instantly heal people in WvW. It’s absolutely non-sense that more waterfields would mean that people wouldn’t die in WvW. A raid is limited to a certain amount of blasts. Those can be performed within the current amount of waterfields already, so more waterfields wouldn’t really add much more to WvW. Then again, waterfield blasting is just a small component of the sustain of raids in WvW. So your argument is not really relevant. Also, 10-15 seconds of a waterfield would require you to stand still with your tablet and cast the skill from 60-90 energy. This is only reachable by standing still and doing nothing but spam 1. Moving the tablet would reduce the waterfields duration already by almost 1 second. So at best you would really have a 5 seconds waterfield, which is shorter than healing rain, has a much smaller radius and doesn’t remove conditions. You can’t tell me you think that’s OP… And no, projectiles in this game are not a big factor to the damage output amongst almost all classes.

Sarif.1827:

Everything the tablet does is radial, and the bigger it gets, the more like a mobile tank it becomes. The radius are small to prevent one Revenant from bunker a whole zerg. In 5-man content, the size is just fine, most people tend to stack anyway. I haven’t had a chance to try it in the raid setting yet, but I can tell you it will easily have use.

The further I read, the more I get the feeling you are only playing WvW as almost every argument you have used is WvW based. So let me start off with saying WvW is not a content where things are balanced on in this game. While I did play it a lot and soon will be playing it a lot, I don’t see a massive reason to balance minor things on the revenant, rather than complaining about all other things that are wrong in there. So my vision is from an sPvP perspective.
As for the radius in sPvP, it is just way too short for any pug to heal decently. Maybe you would be able to heal when you are playing with people on teamspeak so they don’t run the moment you cast the skill, but that also makes these people you heal very static and predictable for the enemy since they most likely will just run to the tablet.
As for your argument in WvW: this argument literally has nothing to stand on. It’s capped at 5man, so there’s no way you can bunker a whole zerg if the radius is bigger…

Sarif.1827:

Lots of boons, which would be everyone. Mallyx’s “Uniqueness” hasn’t been removed…

Mesmer and necro can be much more effective at removing boons. Even a mesmer on a condi build has more pressure than a condition rev. So I just see it as a worse version of a condition mesmer. It literally does nothing special. The elite was over the top, what it is now is just pathetic.

I’m not gonna quote the rest of it but just respond to it as it takes less effort really..
@ Pain absorption : It’s 7 seconds max, which does require 5 allies around you and in an sPVP setting, that’s never the cast. But let’s say you do get 7 seconds, then your resistance get’s shred off and you die to conditions 2 seconds later. Oh right, and you are out of energy due it’s cost.

@ Embrace the darkness: 10% is nothing if you are out of energy within seconds. Especially for revenant as their condi spec doesnt really have much burst potential, so that 10% is barely noticable. Theoratically =/= In practice. So yes, in theory it might sound nice, but it really isn’t. Only already that 1 second casting time reduces your damage output by almost 10% during the time you have EtD on..

@ Inspiring Reinforcement : I’ve had this discussion already more than enough and I will just refer you to This Post. It’s also 1,75-2 seconds as stated. The 1.25 was @ the elite, which I also said in the same sentence…

@ Vengefull hammers : This is a WvW problem again… Such things barely happen in sPvP. Also a technical issue, while I am discussing functionality. I thought that was pretty clear…

@ RotGD: Pff.. Read please. I said earlier (at inspiring reinforcement) that a 1.25 seconds casting time with a stunbreak doesn’t work. No one ever uses it as a stunbreak, nor will it ever be able to use due the fact that most stuns are gone before you have finished the casting of it. 50% damage reduction for 50 energy for just 5 seonds is just not impressive and very situational, especially with such long casting time.

I really think you should read some basics of GW2, because you constantly are talking about ‘’full raids’’, while practically all skills are capped at 5 people. 5 People =/= a full raid. Please do not try to make things sound better than they are.

Maxite.6102:

People learned to stop attacking on Infused Light really fast. When that happened Shiro/Glint left me pretty boned. Tried out other legends, mostly for the heals, but none stuck too well. Eventually settled on Shield/Crystal hibernation. Still don’t like Soothing Bastion though.

That’s kinda the part where you should save the healing for the last bit. Kinda the point where people start hammering on you when you have 10% hp. You’ll be back at 70-80 before they even notice it.

Traits:

Herald:

• Bolster Fortifications doesn’t fit with the herald healing at all so I don’t see why this is in the herald line. It pretty much reduces the healing gain by 33%. It’s a nice trait with ventari, so this could need a change.

Salvation:

• Disarming Riposte seems pretty useless and needs some serious icd-reduction (10sec or so) to be noticeable.
• Nourishing Roots needs it’s regen duration be increased to 3 seconds base or just changed to a -10% damage reduction when being near the tablet to up to 5 allies.
• Tranquil Benediction is not worth picking and would need might of 3 seconds added to it or a 1second duration protection or fury added to be worth.
• Eluding Nullification’s ICD is way too long and should be around 2 seconds to prevent people from double dodging, but still having that nice condition removal on dodge with certainty. Currently 10 sec is just way too random.

Retribution:

• Improved Aggression: Pve Trait, might be useful with HoT content? Currently isn’t useful as far as I’m concerned anywhere.
• Steadfast Rejuvenation is a pretty boring grandmaster trait and totally not impressive. Should get a buff in my opinion.

Invocation:

• Charged Mist is too hard to use imo. Rather have it that it gives might when you use a skill above 50 energy and not just when it drops below 50.
• Cruel Repercussion is a bit of a wierd trait for the revenant as you dont really have a hard single hitting skill besides maybe something on hammer or staff 2. Though even if you notice a skill has been negated, you already used the buff due the fast attacking of the revenant. I would rather have the buff apply 3 times 25% and maybe even have a lower ICD.

Devastation:

• Malicious Reprisal is just horrible since the icd is way too long and (havent tested this but thought by logic) if it procs with aegis its useless.
• Nefarious Momentum is kinda unnoticeable since you dont and cant really use many shiro stance skills. the might stacks per skill could be increased but I highly doubt if that will increase the quality of the trait.
• Dismantle Fortifications is not worth it compared to the other grandmasters in devastation. The only skill that reslly benifits from this trait is Surge of the Mist which is fairly easy to dodge and hard to hit all 9 times. My addition to this trait would be to gain 1 stack of stability for 6 seconds when succesfully removing a stack of stability (5 sec icd). The current effect would still be without icd.

Weapons:

Sword:
Please remove the projectile (Brutal blade) from this auto attack, or at least make it so you continue with your chain once you fail this skill or if it get’s reflected. It’s a fun concept but it fails too often. (fixing terrain problems would also be a big fix for the skill)

• Grasping Shadow: Still feels a bit buggy and clunky to ’’pull’’ off, if you get what I mean huehue…

Hammer: Not really a worthy weapon in spvp imo due to it’s slow behaviour but useful in WvW so hard to balance. Casting time and damage could be reduced to make it more in-line maybe, but much more than that is just making the weapon very wierd.

Staff:

• Punishing Sweep: A bit too slow and hard to hit. Could still need a casting time reduction to 0,5 seconds. Full #2 chain already takes about 1.5 seconds with after-cast included.
• Renewing Wave: Is this skill supposed to not cleanse conditions on yourself? Cause I found myself not removing conditions way too often when using this skill.

And that’s pretty much it? Thanks for reading if you came all the way here. Feel free to discuss.

Revenant has it’s pro’s and cons, but what I dislike is the fact that the real pro, only lies in two certain hero’s: Herald and shiro. The rest just currently lacks quite a bit. I hooked off from condition really fast when my condition output was really not worth it and not even came close to the damage and sustain I was able to gain through shiro-herald marauder.
I have also played some Healing-support Venetari-Herrald for quite a few hours and got a way to make it work and won some 2v3/2v4 with a reaper along with me. I basically got to heal him up to 100% the moment he pops out of DS while I kiting and CCing during his DS. Though I have to admitt, these opponents weren’t very good and once I got to fight better players you could easily notice how poor the support was, partly due the fact that the healings of ventari are very slow, with quite a big cost and very risky.

I’ll start with the worst (in my opinion) legendary stance: Ventari:
Can we finally remove some clunkyness from this stance? The tablet is absolutely horrible to move around. And while that is not only the problem, it’s also at an amazingly high cost. Only by spamming my tablet and some weapon skills I’m already very low on energy. This, along with the very slow and risky healing (very small radius) makes it a very high risk-low reward mechanic.

• The tablet at first needs to be much faster. This has been suggested many times and I honestly don’t see why this is a problem. It removes a lot clunky-ness from the tablet and makes it easier to move.
  Along with this the cooldown needs to be reduced to 1 second, the energy cost lowered to 5 and the base healing also reduced by a half. Obviously you can’t just spam 2.5k healings on a 1 second cooldown so cutting the heal in half is more than fine. And seriously guys, why can’t it become instant cast? I would also like to cast more than just my tablet constantly. It would also synergyze much better with #8, due that actually does cast while you’re casting skills. I’m sometimes stuck casting the skill but then I realise I have to give up my casting of whatever I’m casting (say, #3 sword) to move my dog… eh.. tablet to the position I want to.

As for the utility skills:

• Protective Solace: Well.. Ehm.. Water field maybe? The absorbtion is at a very high cost. I really dislike light fields, as they are rather screwing up the field blasting in all forms of the game than actually helping them. Rather remove the light field from this skill, increase the cooldown to 10 seconds, reduce energy cost to 5 or 6 and upon exploding the projetile shield, give a waterfield based on the duration you have kept up the barier.
  So say you have kept up the barier for 10 seconds and you release the barier, you will get a waterfield for 5 seconds. Don;t make the radius too big though. 240 or 360 is big enough since the blasting of water also adds another radius of 360.
  With a cooldown of 10 seconds you can’t just spam it for waterfields, and let’s be honest: we have more than enough projectile obsorption skills. We really don’t need this on a 5 seconds cd.

• Natural Harmony: Ugh, radius… Honestly all radius skills of ventari are way too risky and allies most likely run out of your healing before they notice it. This could really need an improvement, if not done by a trait that increases the radius.

• Purifying Essence: Same goes for this skill basically. Radius too big. Energy cost could be reduced to 25, but not required.

• Energy Expulsion: This skill seems much more useful now it’s 35 energy cost instead of 50 and found myself use it often as support when I had nothing to heal but rather attribute by CCing.

Mallyx:
The unique-ness of this legend has been removed completely and replaced with some mid-tier condition spec. The elite doesnt seem to have much effect and the legend really is only good if you fight someone with lots of boons.

• Pain Absorption: Costs too much energy or it either needs an increased self-resistance per condition, or an increased AoE duration of resistance per condition transfered. Now Conditions are only transfered in a very minor way due RNG-trait, the conditions actually hurt you more by using this skill than you being able to make use of it.

• Banish Enchantment: Decent skill. Not a big ‘’wow-factor’‘, but does it’s job by removing boons as revenant doesnt really have access to that.

• Unyielding Anguish: so-so. It’s not an amazing skill but then again it does contribute to the pressure and mobility you can have. Energy could be reduced maybe to 25 as 30 feels a bit too much for this skill. Could also be lowered to 20 and have a short cooldown to prevent spamming.

• Embrace the Darkness: Well… Just no. 10% is not really noticeable, energy cost is not too high for an elite skill but the functionality is not good for an elite skill. Elite skills are supposed to be strong with high cost. This is just another utility skill with some nice effects. Even Protective solance costs more than this ’’elite’’ skill… Ehh.. Let’s move on?

Legendary King Jalis, hail the king!
Or let’s not, shall we? This ’’king’’ is most certainly not the king of all revenant stances due a few things: The stun break is very off and is practically useless. The stability is unreliable and almost useless. This is a massive factor that a tanky-support role needs. Something herald can actually provide akwardly enough…

• Inspiring Reinforcement: Well this is not such kittene as many poeople already suggested: Stability on inital cast, pulsing stability road when layed down. This skill is so static and so bad, I don’t really know if I should cry or laugh when I get stopped 1v1 against a downed player because my road is still building to finish. I can’t wait nearly 2 seconds for stability that lasts shorter than the actual time to get it. I can better stomp someone and blind them at the right time in… drum sound herald! At least lovely herald is reliable… Another thing to note: This skill should seriously become instant cast and gain the stun break of the elite. It just doesn’t work on a 1.25 sec casting time, you know?

• Forced Engagement: Honestly, I didn’t really get my hands on using this, since there is practically any other skill similar but better than this skill in any other stance. Apart from that, you most likely wanna use jalis for the elite and possibly the hammers. By then you shouldn’t really have much energy to even remotely use this skill.

• Vengeful Hammers: Still love this skill. No complaints

• Rite of the ’’Great’’ Dwarf: Could just easily add 50% condition damage reduction to this too since the hammers has it too and the skill seriously could get a minor buff. Stun break would be removed and replaced to inspiring reinforcement.

No comments on shiro and herald as they are well balanced and might even get some minor nerfs if needed

Terra.8571:

BlackDevil.9268:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

I rather see it the other way around:
Ventari is limited to a small pool of energy with a nice on demand burst healing, while not really healing much over a large duration of time since you would run out of energy quickly.
While Druid can basically heal already quite good with just the weapon skills already and provides for a nice burst but also quite long burst healing after building up astral force.

Nothing can compare to the burst healing of Druids. 6k AoE heal every 25s (19s if traited) with 0 healing power. That will be 8k when properly geared, maybe pushing 10k with healing modifiers. In astral form the 1 skill (no cast time) was doing almost 1k heals (again not fully geared) and has 1200 range spam. In the video he went from 1hp to full health in 12s ish. That’s better and much quicker/ easier to control than the tablet.

As Roy has pointed out, one limit to the spec is entering Astral form, but even outside of it, they have a lot of healing skills. Rev’s have more boons and better dps but I’m not convinced Ventari will compete with druids for even a back up healer role. As someone pointed out, why not 2 druids? I think Rev’s role will be boon support/ dps.

I didn’t say they couldn’t burst out spike healings. I just was pointing out that ventari is not about sustain healing but rather about spike healing, while druid is basically both.

Varezenem.2813:

BlackDevil.9268:

Killyox.3950:

BlackDevil.9268:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

I rather see it the other way around:
Ventari is limited to a small pool of energy with a nice on demand burst healing, while not really healing much over a large duration of time since you would run out of energy quickly.
While Druid can basically heal already quite good with just the weapon skills already and provides for a nice burst but also quite long burst healing after building up astral force.

Vent has really good upkeep healing. Also his Regeneration due to outgoing healing % is crazy.

Druid can spam more healing skills but lacks otgoing healing% of Ventari and regeneration.

I think both are crazy good tbh. Druid has more going for it though due to astral form. Rev is still top notch.

Regeneration is based on your own healing power, not that of the caster. So basically that leaves just to the point which I pointed out which is not really that good sustain healing, but rather a spike for a few seconds and then being stuck to no or little healing for a quite significant time.

Can I say something? Um no, tested ventari/glint during BWE2. On others I could upkeep a 684 heal/ sec regen while on myself it was around 324 . Your information is either outdated or wrong.

Ah well I see yes, my bad. But you would give up 20% spike healing for that and it would force you to litterally stick the tablet in someone’s face all the time or have him sitting on it. I also don’t think it’s that huge since regeneration is a boon that comes along already much in the game.

Killyox.3950:

BlackDevil.9268:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

I rather see it the other way around:
Ventari is limited to a small pool of energy with a nice on demand burst healing, while not really healing much over a large duration of time since you would run out of energy quickly.
While Druid can basically heal already quite good with just the weapon skills already and provides for a nice burst but also quite long burst healing after building up astral force.

Vent has really good upkeep healing. Also his Regeneration due to outgoing healing % is crazy.

Druid can spam more healing skills but lacks otgoing healing% of Ventari and regeneration.

I think both are crazy good tbh. Druid has more going for it though due to astral form. Rev is still top notch.

Regeneration is based on your own healing power, not that of the caster. So basically that leaves just to the point which I pointed out which is not really that good sustain healing, but rather a spike for a few seconds and then being stuck to no or little healing for a quite significant time.

Invictus.1503:

BlackDevil.9268:

Invictus.1503:

So, with Druid reveal the Glyph of Tides pushes enemies away from your location. Seems this is basically what Unyielding Anguish did before except it use to displace. Why not simply keep the functionality (loved the skill) with this mechanic instead of displacement?

No it did not in any sense and it’s not anything else than a warrior hammer 4.

Not sure what you mean? Unyielding Anguish (before the notes from above) was a leap that displaced enemies (meaning they were forced out of a radius with you as the center and couldn’t re-enter). The problem seems to be the displacement mechanic was too “disorienting” and ignored things like stability. Glyph of the Tides for Druid knocks back all enemies within a radius centered on you.

I don’t see why Unyielding Anguish couldn’t remain the same as it was before, just putting the same knockback mechanic of GotT when you land in your leap. It would then keep the functionality it had before, without being “disorienting” and without the OP version that was ignoring Stability.

Oh sorry I should read more carefully. I thought you ment the KB of the Glyph was compareable to the effect Unyielding Anguish did. But honestly, I don’t think CC really fits mallyx.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

I rather see it the other way around:
Ventari is limited to a small pool of energy with a nice on demand burst healing, while not really healing much over a large duration of time since you would run out of energy quickly.
While Druid can basically heal already quite good with just the weapon skills already and provides for a nice burst but also quite long burst healing after building up astral force.

Invictus.1503:

So, with Druid reveal the Glyph of Tides pushes enemies away from your location. Seems this is basically what Unyielding Anguish did before except it use to displace. Why not simply keep the functionality (loved the skill) with this mechanic instead of displacement?

No it did not in any sense and it’s not anything else than a warrior hammer 4.

Apart from better survivability and more boons-support oriënted in combination with a significant healing output to druid? Nah, probably it can’t.

Malchior.5732:

BlackDevil.9268:

Hiki.9310:

Malchior.5732:

My Sweet Lily.1952:

@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.

That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.

I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.

I think the fact it got nerfed/removed is the fact that you could spike-spam conditions. While this is a pretty nice counter to condition builds, it doesn’t really have much counterplay besides… well… not applying conditions or to lure the revenant in a 1v1 to possibly not have him stack up a lot resistance (eventhough in a 1v1 situation with herald as 2nd legend, a revenant could still gain good resistance duration).
Transfering conditions is a very powerful effect. If something like that can be spammed it can become OP very fast. Especially with the amount of conditions being output without even having a condition spec on the enemy team. That’s, however, more of a game issue than an issue that came with the revenant.ds
In it’s current state, I dont see this coming back any soon due that revenant only gets more and more condi pressure on his own. So expect him to be stronger in 1v1’s, but less effective in team fights.

So yes, I can imagine it being nerfed. Removing it is just the easy way to avoid a lot of ‘’QQ mallyx OP’’ threads honestly.

But it didn’t get removed because “Rev OP”. It got removed because it didn’t “work well with groups”.
The counter-play to EtD is CC. Mallyx has no Stun Breaks whatsoever and EtD only gives you a whopping 2s of Resistance.
If he runs Retribution and/or Herald for Stab, then your best bet for countering it is abusing its low radius. Pain Absorption + EtD eats up a lot of Energy too, so he’s either going to swap soon or use nothing but Autos for a while.

Well, that’s a general counter to revenant and as you already said with the stability on dodge (which pretty much every build requires), you would need quite a few people to CC. A mesmer could go in for a shatter but he would kitten himself up with that too if he gets hit even once by the condi spike.
Well.. resistance wasn’t really relied on EtD anyway so I don’t quite understand what you mean with this? That you would harm yourself quite fast? Cause the general combo was pain absorber into EtD, which gave more than enough resistance.

Honestly moving out of range is a nice counter, but in practice that just doesn’t really work. A revenant isn’t slow and has quite a few blinks to get to his enemy. (Especially if you have axe equiped). Not only that, but the stance is instantly activated, meaning if you are already close enough, you only have to klick the skill. No casting time required and you already applied all conditions on your enemy. Of course this only lasts 3 seconds so getting off the fully spike time after time is not accomplished yet, but you get the point. It’s like a pulsing, aoe and stronger version of signet of spite without casting time in some situations.

A good nerf would be to cap the amount of conditions you would transfer over to your enemy, have a casting time or increase the interval from 1 to 3 seconds so you wouldn’t overwrite your conditions so they stack 3 times before the new stack of conditions are applied.
Please do note that I dislike the way they have handled the skill by removing it’s functionality totally, but agree it should have been nerfed.

Booxos.8715:

Ok. I Know that i am an Old grumble but please. Let us support players that came from another MMO. Be a good support healer as rev. You have created great dynamic game where wvwvw Fights bring a lot of adrenaline but tablet is too slow to follow the fight. Would be gr8 to fix it somehow.

+1, tablet needs to be much faster.

Hiki.9310:

Malchior.5732:

My Sweet Lily.1952:

@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.

That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.

I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.

I think the fact it got nerfed/removed is the fact that you could spike-spam conditions. While this is a pretty nice counter to condition builds, it doesn’t really have much counterplay besides… well… not applying conditions or to lure the revenant in a 1v1 to possibly not have him stack up a lot resistance (eventhough in a 1v1 situation with herald as 2nd legend, a revenant could still gain good resistance duration).
Transfering conditions is a very powerful effect. If something like that can be spammed it can become OP very fast. Especially with the amount of conditions being output without even having a condition spec on the enemy team. That’s, however, more of a game issue than an issue that came with the revenant.ds
In it’s current state, I dont see this coming back any soon due that revenant only gets more and more condi pressure on his own. So expect him to be stronger in 1v1’s, but less effective in team fights.

So yes, I can imagine it being nerfed. Removing it is just the easy way to avoid a lot of ‘’QQ mallyx OP’’ threads honestly.

Why not just merge this trait with the new weakness trait.

New trait:

• Dwarven Battle Training: This is a new master tier trait replacing redeeming protection. This trait provides a 25% chance on hit to weaken foes for 4 seconds with a 10 second recharge and decreases weakness’s effectiveness on you by 50%.

Remove the ‘’This trait provides a 25% chance on hit to weaken foes for 4 seconds with a 10 second recharge’‘, and merge the current trait into this trait so you have the current trait + ’’decreases weakness’s effectiveness on you by 50%.’’.

Edit: this would be a master trait so you actually have a fairly hard pick between 2 master traits in this trait line. It also allows you to both run the old reflexing hammers trait and the new RotGD trait.

I think you might wanna re-read the thing I said about ‘’Bolster Fortifications’‘. The protection nerfs 33% of your incomming healing and also has such short duration that it’s not useful after the healing. Conclusion: it doesn’t fit with the herald healing and therefor it shouldn’t be in this trait line. I never stated it was a bad trait.

Killyox.3950:

I wouldn’t want it as a leap/rush. We already have access to these and it’s not like we want to leap all over the place constantly or even move at all sometimes.

Hm well, the only real rush forward is #5 staff. Except for that you would have mallyx, but I don’t see why you would combo Mallyx with Jalis since Glint is much better for that. So unless you would go with shiro, you don’t really have any decent mobility skill to leap/rush forward.

Anyway, something totally different I still want to point out is the fact that many traits are quite useless still:
Herald:

• Bolster Fortifications doesn’t fit with the herald healing at all so I don’t see why this is in the herald line. It pretty much reduces the healing gain by 33%. It’s a nice trait with ventari, so this could need a change.

Salvation:

• Disarming Riposte seems pretty useless and needs some serious icd-reduction (10sec or so) to be noticeable.
• Nourishing Roots needs it’s regen duration be increased to 3 seconds base or just changed to a -10% damage reduction when being near the tablet to up to 5 allies.
• Tranquil Benediction is not worth picking and would need might of 3 seconds added to it or a 1second duration protection or fury added to be worth.
• Eluding Nullification’s ICD is way too long and should be around 2 seconds to prevent people from double dodging, but still having that nice condition removal on dodge with certainty. Currently 10 sec is just way too random.

Retribution:

• Improved Aggression: Pve Trait, might be useful with HoT content? Currently isn’t useful as far as I’m concerned anywhere.
• Steadfast Rejuvenation is a pretty boring grandmaster trait and totally not impressive. Should get a buff in my opinion. Maybe +5 energy added to it or the healing increased/ AoE.

Invocation:

• Charged Mist is too hard to use imo. Rather have it that it gives might when you use a skill above 50 energy and not just when it drops below 50.
• Cruel Repercussion is a bit of a wierd trait for the revenant as you dont really have a hard single hitting skill besides maybe something on hammer or staff 2. Though even if you notice a skill has been negated, you already used the buff due the fast attacking of the revenant. I would rather have the buff apply 3 times 25% and maybe even have a lower ICD.

Devastation:

• Malicious Reprisal is just horrible since the icd is way too long and (havent tested this but thought by logic) if it procs with aegis its useless.
• Nefarious Momentum is kinda unnoticeable since you dont and cant really use many shiro stance skills. the might stacks per skill could be increased but I highly doubt if that will increase the quality of the trait.
• Dismantle Fortifications is not worth it compared to the other grandmasters in devastation. The only skill that reslly benifits from this trait is Surge of the Mist which is fairly easy to dodge and hard to hit all 9 times. My addition to this trait would be to gain 1-2 stacks of stability for 6 seconds when succesfully removing a stack of stability (5 sec icd). The current effect would still be without icd.

What if Inspiring Reinforcement (which is in a terrible state currently) was changed to a rush forward of 600 units that breaks stun, while leaving a trail behind of stone that pulses stability for those who cross the path. This would give the caster 3 stacks stability for 6 seconds. The pulsing stability would be 1 stack with a duration of 3 seconds.
So basically:

• Damage removed
• Weakness Removed
• Stun Break added (possibly removed from the elite)
• Is now a rush/leap forward of 600 units (Somewhat same speed like Burning Speed of elementalist)
• Stability (3) for 6 seconds
• Stability (1) for 3 seconds pulsing on the trail
• Combo field remains a lightning field

Thoughts?

@ Kodiak
Thank you.
@Killyox
I wasn’t at home so couldn’t really go into specifics on my phone.
But yeah, this problem has been going on since the launch of Jalis and it always has been bad like this.
As you can also see in this video: https://youtu.be/Xmi6UwTMBiU?t=55s

Killyox.3950:

It definitely worked for me faster than 2s. More like 0,5s. Maybe you had connection problems?

And yeah, the fact it was triple nerfed was covered many times Apparently to no avail.

You can basically check any video that uses the skill and look how long it takes from casting the skill till the first applied stability stack. That’s around 1.75 seconds. So no, it wasn’t my internet being dipkitten but rather the skill.

Killyox.3950:

1s stab per pulse has its uses. Drop it on someone you need to stomp and you get stab every sec when stomping so even if they clear your stab you get another one so it’s a lot harder to prevent stomp in this scenario.

I do agree that skill is too weak atm though.

That’s not the main issue I brought up. It’s the fact that the skill only starts working after 2 seconds, which often results in still failing to stomp eventhough you have casted the skill on your downed enemy. As for the duration: it’s just another thing that causes skills to get over-nerfed. In a game you need to slightly nerf or slightly buff certain specifics of a skill. This skill just literally got nerfed on literally every single function in 1 patch. That’s a typical case of ‘’balancing gone wrong’’.

No because the tablet is too clunky. If #6 was about 1.5 times faster at moving and the heal skill would be reduced to 1 second cooldown or 5 energy it would’ve been so much better.

I was pretty surprised there were no changes on this for the next BWE and I really would like to have more attention to this skill as it was alright, but pretty much made into worthless. For a skill with a fairly high energy cost and a cooldown, which is already quite a big thing for revenant utilities.

The main problem I find having with this skill is the way it functions. The stability is applied so late it just makes the caster very static. It’s fine that the skill itself is static, but the effect being applied is just way too late. I had lots of times where I still got CC’ed from a single downed enemy while standing in the road, while not applying stability yet because it takes so.. super… long. Along with this, the effects being applied by the current state is really underwhelming.

So to clear up the effect what it did at first:
Create a stone road that damages and weakens foes as it’s created. Once it’s created it will pulse, granting stability to allies:

• XXX damage
• Stability (6s) 1 stack
• Weakness (6s)
• Energy cost: 25
• Cooldown: 5 sec.

Now I do agree it’s not supposed to be that you can be immune to CC while basically just spamming this skill and standing in it, so a cooldown increase should’ve already been enough. Not only that but it’s functionallity should’ve been changed already with this slightly. The speed of laying down the road needs to be at least twice as fast. Of course with the nice boon duration buff Glint gives, the stability duration could also have been reduced slightly, but instead it just has been made into this:

• XXX damage
• Stability (1s) 1 stack
• Weakness (6s)
• Energy cost: 30
• Cooldown: 10 sec.

So not only did they not fix the problem it had initially, it also got nerfed on 3 ways where only 1 was necessary (which is the cooldown one). The stability duration nerf is way too big and the duration of the stability could easily have been reduced to 3 seconds. The energy cost in it’s current state is just way too much. If the skill was actually be reworked to something good, 30 energy might be worth but I don’t see any reason to spend 30 energy for such bad skill.

As for my opinion what should be changed:

• It could rather become a stunbreaker instead of the elite. (The elite could potentially also gain another effect but that’s not the discussion here.)
• The stability duration should be increased to 3 seconds.
• The speed of applying the first stack of stability should be at least twice, if not three times as fast as it is now. (I believe it’s around 1.75-2 second including the cast time before the first stability is pulsed. Such reliability…)

With these changes, a 10 seconds cooldown and 30 energy cost is much more worth and balanced. At least it will be more reliable to use and makes you initially less static. If you would want to stack more stability you could always stick around longer in the field, but currently I just feel it forces you to stay in the road for at least 4 seconds to profit from the skill. An enemy only needs to lay down 1 aoe field and you can almost already asume it’s not worth sticking in it for the little you get.

Edit:
Another rework I thought off was rushing forward 600 units in about 3/4 second while leaving a trail behind that pulses stability and giving initial stability upon casting (equal to a pulse of the trail/road or maybe even better like Kodiak suggested). I honestly think this could also improve revenants mobility when you pick jalis. This does make the skill quite different from what it is now, which some people may dislike. Though it seemed a cool option to me.

Kidel.2057:

I agree with BlackDevil. However dwarf rite is potentially op. If you have enough accumulated protection with Glint, plus Jalis 20% damage reduction upkeep, then you can reach almost 100% damage reduction under dwarf rite.
I still need to test it, because it’s strange that you get 0 damage. I don’t think it’s going to work this way.
It’s the first thing I’ll test in BW3.

I think it’s a percentage of a percentage what you already have added on it. So for example if you would have 50% damage reduction you would have another 25% by RotGD adding up to 75%. Probably doesn’t work exactly like that but I think that’s more accurate than just simpily adding up numbers.

That’s a lot of work to put in for just a short duration of so much damage reduction. That, while you’re still vurnable to CC seems a bit over the top. Just look at endure pain. 0 Damage for about the same duration as you would have +/- 100% dmg reduction but with just 1 skill instead of… 3? And you will actually be able to do something during that period, it’s a stunbreaker and it’s instant cast. Getting the combo off you mentioned, takes either a CC on yourself or a legend swap, elite and utility skill. That’s at least 100 energy and +/- 2-2.5 seconds you would need to get around 5 seconds of nice damage reduction. That honestly doesn’t sound very exciting to me.

Jalis is only really worth picking due the nice healing and the hammers. The other skills are pretty donkey.
Inspiring reinforcement got nerfed way too hard while it wasn’t even functioning properly. I’ll just copy the feedback I had on jalis bwe2:

• Inspiring Reinforcement, aka ‘’the road’‘, was decent, but I couldn’t believe what I saw in the BWE1 patch notes. While I found this skill was pretty terrible due the fact that it’s very slow with applying stability, it also made you very static that way. The only reason for using it was to stomp people. Now I do agree the duration of 6 seconds is a bit off the limit, while 1 second is just way too bad. My suggestion is to apply instant stability the moment you use the skill and have constant pulsing of short durations. Up the stability stacks to 3 seconds each instead of 1 and the skill should be good to go.

I have no comments on vengeful hammers as I like how it is currently

• Rite of the Great Dwarf: Honestly.. It’s just not that great. While -50% damage reduction is nice for your whole party, 5 seconds is just fairly short. Then again it’s also pretty easy to spot someone with the buff, the casting time is long and the stunbreak could probably be either transfered to ‘’the road’’ or ‘’the hammers’’ with such long casting time. Either make it a stun break and make it instant cast, or keep the 1.25 sec CS and add stability to the skill. This way revenant have some non-static way to apply stability, while sacrificing quite a lot energy for it. Obviously the stability should last around 5 seconds and apply at least 3-5 stacks.

Kidel.2057:

BlackDevil.9268:

Kidel.2057:

With or without a condi build, Mallyx is not even worth over Jalis if you don’t have Corruption. It’s incomplete without some traits. Damage wise and resistance wise. While Jalis is perfectly fine with every spec.

What… Jalis does literally nothing for a condi build nor does it much anyway. The only good thing about jalis are the hammers. The rest is basically just lacking on so many things. Just because it got nerfed slightly doesn’t mean it’s absolutely horrible. Hell, the condition output on it’s own has been increased. The only thing they nerfed is the immense spike condition application you could gain in team fights.

That was not the point. Jalis, Ventari and Shiro can be used regardless of the trait you choose. Mallix is crap without Corruption, regardless of condi build or not.
I am mainly using Shiro/Glint with Invocation/Herald/Devastation.
I can simply swap in Jalis or Ventari when I need more support or survivability, but I can’t do the same with Mallyx, at least not without replacing Devastation with Corruption.

Killyox.3950:

Kidel.2057:

The purpose of Mallyx over Shiro is Resistance. You don’t get much of it without Corruption.

Even with Corruption you pretty much have to trait Adept for additional resistance eitherway. But yeah, valid points and hopefully will be adressed.

Thanks. That’s another issue. If you use Corruption with Mallyx there is no reason to pick any other adept except the resistance one.

Same goes for mallyx in WvW, which my whole point was from the start. Just looking at sPvP is not balancing nor is it legit to say a legend is underpowered due the fact it can’t be used in any build. The reason these 3 legends can be picked is due that they all 3 have something in common: Defensive abilities for yourself. While mallyx has resistance, it is still a skill that becomes much more viable the more allies around you. (up to 5 obviously).

Sure mallyx got a big hit, but before that, mallyx in your sense wasn’t worth slotting either.

I’m also thinking you underestimate the power of ignoring things as immobilize, instead of cleansing them.

Kidel.2057:

With or without a condi build, Mallyx is not even worth over Jalis if you don’t have Corruption. It’s incomplete without some traits. Damage wise and resistance wise. While Jalis is perfectly fine with every spec.

What… Jalis does literally nothing for a condi build nor does it much anyway. The only good thing about jalis are the hammers. The rest is basically just lacking on so many things. Just because it got nerfed slightly doesn’t mean it’s absolutely horrible. Hell, the condition output on it’s own has been increased. The only thing they nerfed is the immense spike condition application you could gain in team fights.

Kidel.2057:

The purpose of Mallyx over Shiro is Resistance. You don’t get much of it without Corruption. And also condi copy and increased torment damage are only aviable via trait now. Mallyx is 80% less effective without Corruption and any condi damage build requires Mace.

Speaking about spvp, I agree mallyx is not worth taking over shiro without going full condi. Then again, I don’t see why you would take shiro over mallyx if youre condition either. So honestly I think it’s just from what perspective you’re watching.

As for WvW, I think mallyx is a mandatory, even without the trait line. Due boon duration viable via food, you can stack up good enough boon duration for some good resistance for yourself and for your allies. Not only that but it also allows you to leap to certain areas without needing targets.

Well, something I’ve said earlier:

I don’t think the elite should have a lower upkeep just because it’s weaker. Elite’s are supposed to be strong, but with a high cost. If you lower the upkeep it’s just another utility skill.

I still don’t even think that it’s worth using the elite honestly unless it gives pulsing resistance or anything that makes it more worth using and is unique.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

A few more things:

• I reduced the after-cast of unyielding anguish by 260ms so it should help the responsiveness when you land.
• Embrace the Darkness: Lowered the cast time and after-cast by 400ms and reduced it’s upkeep cost by 1 so it’s at a 7 upkeep cast right now.

Thank you Roy, now we actually got a nice leap. (:

Morfedel.4165:

You know, I was just thinking of Mirror of Anguish earlier today; its the mesmer trait that, when hit by a CC, it copies the CC on whoever cast it.

What if EtD was kind of like that, but with conditions? Basically, it would copy conditions to all enemies within the area every time a condition is APPLIED. So the moment a condi lands on you, self-inflicted or not, it gets copied to all enemies in the area immediately. You could retain the pulsing condis as well if and when it doesn’t get cleared, thus….

Then if its cleansed a half second later, no biggie, it already got copied. I’d rename the skill Mirror of Darkness though in that case

Just an idea.

Yes, this is much better. At least that way you can’t just instantly send out all conditions on you the moment you have leeched all conditions and the counterplay is much easier for enemies.

‘’I compare it because UA is usable in PVP and PW isn’t. ’’
You mean like the other 150-200 usable skills? It rather seems to me you’re just asking for buffs on the wrong forum section

Dstroya.6705:

Forgive me if this was already suggested, it is a large thread. Why not make the traits that provided resistance on demon skill use, also make it impossible to have conditions removed while under the effects of resistance? If you want to keep condis then keep up resistance, if I want to be cleansed by my team, let resistance fall off.

Well.. Theres not really much reason to maintain conditions on you currently with all the mechanics for it removed. So I would actually think this is a bad thing. I still prefer coming out of resistance with 0 conditions than being stuck with massive condi pressure.

Zodryn.4216:

BlackDevil.9268:

Comparing classes. Classic.

I’m not trying to compare classes. I’m saying Roy created an awesome skill, and contrasting it with a skill that is somewhat similar but almost totally useless in PVP due to wind up and root. I’d just ask for a fix from Karl on the thief forum, but have you ever been there? We haven’t had any real attention (for core specs) in ages. This is a kind request to have Roy pass something along to Karl.

As main being a mesmer I surely know how frustrating it can be to get no attention. Then agian, you are comparing classes. The skills are not similar at all. The only thing that is the same is the evade. You might aswell compare the sword evade to this one and ask for a multiple target one.
Just cause it’s a nice skill, it doesn’t mean the exact same should come to another class. Thief has many nice skills too, but you don’t see revenant ask for a shadow refuge or the stealth mechanic ether.