Showing Posts For DieQuex.4096:
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While I don’t think Confusion (Glamour mesmer’s in particular) is overpowered, the people proclaiming “l2p” at Elementalists who die to said spec are overly full of themselves.
The Glamour spec is amazing 1v1, and is by far a hard counter to the typical D/D spec (as are condition trap rangers, condition Engineers, ect). It’s not a l2p issue, the build straight up has an advantage over the build most Elementalists use (of course said Eles could change their heal to Ether Renewal and be fine in most situations).
My only experience has been with condition P/D and recently tanky S/D and D/P builds (Dazelock S/D and Tanky dps D/P). I have come to enjoy D/P far more than the other sets I have played in WvW. 10/0/30/15/15 for either S/D or D/P
With a mix of Berseker’s, Soldier, and Valkyrie gear/trinkets your damage output is pretty good. The issue with a tanky dps Thief is the lack of Fury (you could spec 0/10/30/15/15 but you’re losing out on mug), which makes it so that your burst isn’t reliable. I don’t mind that in exchange for the survivability the Shadow Arts tree provides though.
You could also spec 10/30/30/0/0 but without 15 points in Acrobatics you’re losing out on Feline Grace, which improves your survivability by a lot. Also losing out on Bountiful Theft, which grants Fury whenever you want to burst with Mug.
Condition P/D is the best 1vX spec the Thief has in WvW. It’s come to be a pretty boring and skill-less spec imo though. The effort the P/D Thief puts into killing his opponents versus what the other guy has to put out is very low, but if your only concern is having an optimal 1v1+ build that’s your best option.
sPvP/Tourney pvp Glass Thief is the best spec atm.
Ride the Lightning does not drop the orb. Attempting to stealth or being combo’d into stealth does not drop the orb. The stealth just fails, with IMMUNE text.
So you are telling me, I can perma stealth and carry the orb around while noone can see me? Interesting.
Will I be marked on the mini map or will I truly be invisible?
Stealth does not work when you attempt to use stealth skills or combo fields. I asked this due to the fact that perma-stealth would be incredibly cheesy with this new game mechanic added on the map.
The thing that’s fun about the orb, was that feeling of being chased and using all your skills to narrowly stay alive. The fights that break out when enemies are trying to bring down the orb runner, and allies trying to keep the carrier alive.
The thing that isn’t fun, is when the orb carrier is rarely in any real danger of being caught or stopped. When the other team doesn’t even bother trying to chase, because they know there is no chance to catch the carrier.
Yes, we fully expect that some specs are going to be better than others at running the orb. However, the goal was just to make sure that none of those specs felt unstoppable. Sword rangers actually make excellent orb runners.
Appreciate your responses Tyler.
Reserving judgement of the map until it comes out (as everyone should, lol), but the map does not revolve entirely around maintaining the orb guys. There are still points to cap and hold, so no class is “screwed” due to a lack of mobility.
Will stealth skills or being combo’d into stealth cause the orb to drop?
I kind of like where you’re going with shatterstone but I also feel the cast time should be removed or lessened by a lot. As it stands there’s no point using it since it disrupts combat flow and lessens your damage output.
Shatterstone currently has no cast-time. That’s its greatest strength. It’s only weakness is that it will never affect anyone with half of a brain (even including some aggroed NPCs) because of its delayed effect. It would maybe be nice to see it have an effect the moment it spawns on the field, but given it’s incredibly low recharge, I feel like it would need to be nerfed in that department. The only problem there is that Shatterstone shines because it can be spammed all of the time, so I think that that sort of change would defeat the skill entirely.
Rock Barrier->Hurl needs some serious work done.
Dust Devil is great but a bit redundant since we already have an instant, no travel time blind from Lightning3.
Staff has cripple, dagger mainhand has cripple, scepter? nowhere.
I know some people don’t like ground-targeting gimmicks, but it was the only way I could think to really make a game-changer out of Dust Devil. I updated my suggestion to Rock Barrier —> Hurl as well.
Incorrect terminology, my bad. Referring toward how using Shatterstone locks you into an animation for a bit despite not having a cast time. I would have less of an issue with skill’s delay if it were possible to continue casting spells immediately after using it. As things are atm you get better damage output ignoring the skill entirely while using water auto attacks until your desired attunement is off cd.
Obviously wouldn’t solve the issue of actually hitting an opponent with the spell but I feel a change of that nature would at least make it less burdensome.
Pretty much what Intigo said. 0/20/20/30 is very strong. Though I kind of like 10/15/0/15/30, which is a slight variation of your build.
Internal Fire, Zephyr’s Boon, Vital Striking, with the same traits you picked in Arcane.
Only change I agree with is Dragon’s tooth. It sucks when you’re not targeting someone and use the skill and have no control over where it goes. Most of the s/d skills can land by simply skill-shotting (save for lightning attunement burst) so I don’t see why dragon’s tooth should not have more control.
I don’t like Arc-lightning much either but my only issue with is the animation speed/duration. If they sped it up a bit it would be fine imo.
I kind of like where you’re going with shatterstone but I also feel the cast time should be removed or lessened by a lot. As it stands there’s no point using it since it disrupts combat flow and lessens your damage output.
S/D for me. I only use D/D in WvW due to superior mobility, otherwise S/D is where it’s at. Better burst potential from range when specc’d 20 in air, and I just prefer the animations.
Timing your burst correctly and landing phoenix/dragon’s tooth are immensely satisfying.
All the people trying to argue against OP have no clue about how thief class works.
Sorry, you really should stop saying bs and should try to AT LEAST watch some good thief stream before posting if you’re so ignorant about how the thief works.
Steal can be used mid cast.
Backstab has 1/4 second cast time.
You can cast backstab ( in stealth) and use steal mid cast, in order to have both Mug and Backstab to hit at the same time WHILE STEALTHED.
With haste, you can use 1 heartseeker after the Backstab -> Mug combo and you won’t even render, due to the animation being faster than rendering.
This is indeed broken, but it’s the only thing keeping thieves as a good option for top teams.
Make the thief good in other areas ( it would need huge rebalancing of thief capabilities) and nerf this dumb, broken burst: without the first phase, the thief will become useless if they simply nerf thief burst ( which is broken).
Thanks aNet.
Exactly big. This is what I tried to explain earlier but I was not aware cast times between Steal and Backstab (all I knew is that using steal fast enough while casting backstab works due to how often I have done it).
This is a problem due to how easy it is for a Thief to sit in stealth and nearly 100-0 anyone with stab + steal from stealth and never be detected (Stealth utility skills, and Blackpowder + Heartseeker combo finisher, ect). The typical D/D burst can be avoided, sure, but not a backstab and steal while stealthed. There is no reacting to it unless you know the thief is already there.
Thief burst, and perhaps the stealth mechanic as a whole needs some fine tuning, but as you said the thief will be useless competitively without A-net balancing the thief in other areas so that burst is not their only option competitively.
I’m not even going to attempt to justify such damage.
I’ve been saying that Mug needs a nerf and this is just further proof.
Engis you can see coming, engis you can prepare for, engis you can preempt. Already stealth thieves? Your dead before theirs a chance to react.
To be fair, and already stealthed Thief can’t hit you like that. Mug would apply Revealed to him which would ruin his consecutive Cloak and Dagger + Backstab.
An already stealthed Thief can only hit you with Backstab.
A big problem with the “instant-gib” combo is that it is instant and almost completely untelegraphed. Steal has no animation and the Cloak and Dagger is a very subtle melee attack too, let alone that it is pre-cast most of the time.
Nope. A stealthed thief can hit you with stab + steal while in stealth if they link the skills together fast enough. Steal + CnD + BS isn’t as big a problem imo as Thieves who can sit in stealth (black powder + HS into a wall/crevice, easy 10 seconds of stealth) and stab + steal with a sin’s signet and potentially 100-0% an opponent in less than a second. I’ve done it multiple times.
Thief burst needs toning down, but the class also needs something in return. Otherwise the only real tournament viable build thieves have will be gone with no other role for them to fill outside of venom share, which still isn’t that great.
As a warrior you should learn to time your burst so that whoever it is you decide to burst doesn’t live through it. Make sure they’ve burned their defensive cooldowns, ect.
If you’re simply bored of the class as a whole Ele and Engie are incredibly fun and rewarding classes to play imo.
To be fair, a stunbreak won’t help anyone against backstab + steal combo. A thief can pull off the combo from stealth and nearly 100-0% many players if using assassin’s signet.
But yeah, zerker’s amulet, likely a glass cannon shatter mesmer build, ect. A thief will global you if his burst is up. Same thing for you, if you shatter the thief while he doesn’t expect it he’ll likely die.
Course the thief has the advantage of stealth and a burst combo that’s easier to pull off and nearly instant.
Agreed.
The two major failings of sPvP:
1) Premades vs pugs
2) Charging casuals micro-transactions in order to LTP at a competitive level and ultimately charging people money for losing to teams that play 10 hours a day.Now we have no population despite what the Devs keep saying and we see the results which is a MMR that makes the same two teams face each other for 6 hours because there is no competition.
lol. premades vs pugs is not a fail by anet or their design by any means… that’s your fail. if you are not serious about winning and just want to throw together a bunch of noobs to play paid tournaments, of course you’re going to get your kitten kicked by people much more organized and serious than you.
if you’re not going to put in the time to find serious players, create a group or team of friends that you can win with, then you simply don’t deserve to win. keep playing in hot join.
Cool. Just understand that you and your buds who pub-stomp, and feel the lack of features for even-play for solo players is fine, are the minority.
You won’t have many players to play against in the future if the features people want for solo/even play are not implemented.
Scepter and staff are fine. Scepter is actually far better damage/burst and if you properly land your fire skills and invest at least 15 points in lightning for Electric Discharge (and the damage scales extremely high with how easy it is to stack might in your fire field). Staff is more of a support weapon imo, and it excels at that role incredibly well.
I don’t have that much experience with focus so I can’t comment on it, but overall I feel Ele weapons are fine as is. People tend not to pick focus or staff due to the lack of mobility offhand dagger provides.
If anything needs to be changed it’s how strong passive healing is on Eles so that investing heavily in the water trait line is not viewed as a necessity.
(edited by DieQuex.4096)
I’m really sorry to say that but then it’s the false game for you. Allrdy in GW1 to be competitive enough you had to have a voice-chat. I don’t wanna say ppl that haven’t much time to spend into GW2, shouldn’t be able to play on a competitive platform, but this is how it goes in every game. And I actually don’t wanna play against a random team as in free-tournaments. I prefer hard matches instead of free wins.
The game is flawed, it’s not simply “not for me”. I understand you want to a challenge, but the issue is more that the game should provide a competitive environment for “all” players. Without providing that environment the population playing the pvp will never increase, unless you and the people who posted above are content with how small the competitive environment in the game is at the moment.
I have played a number of games (not MMOs) that provide provide proper rankings that makes solo play both fun and competitive, so that really is not how it is in every game. Unless you expect new players/teams to enter the current system and automatically provide a challenge for you as the game is now, I do not see why anyone would be against the possibility of a feasible system for solo players to queue in paids.
The only alternative is that the competitive environment remains unwelcoming to new players and the competitive environment will never grow as a result.
Burst and Sustain.
Personally have the biggest issue with Thief burst and the sustainability of the Elementalist, but with the recent “Hundred Nades” Engie and how sustainable Guardians have been since launch I still feel both sides of the spectrum still need to be tweaked across the board.
Pretty much what Caffynated has described.
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Posted by: DieQuex.4096
There’s no reason not to give people the option if enough players want it, so I do not mind.
At the same time, the game was not made with that function in mind so resources would have to applied to make sure it flows with the gameplay correctly.
It needs to be possible. I do not have the time or patience to join a team, and some of the people in this thread do not realize how barren most Mist environments are. Requesting a team in Map chat is not as quick and easy compared to servers like Anvil Rock.
The “competitive scene” in this game will always be small and continue to diminish if people do not want to see more people, solo players or not, included in that environment.
S/D in PVE isn’t that great in my opinion. The auto-attack does good damage and I agree that Infiltrator’s Strike is an amazing skill, but that honestly is the only thing the weapon set brings in a PVE scenario (and S/P gets both of those perks).
The CnD into an auto for the daze is nice but you get better on demand Dazes from Headshot with either Sword/Pistol or Dagger/Pistol or even Pistol/Pistol. S/P, D/P, and P/P also utilize black powder, which is an amazing defensive utility in PVE.
I wish Flanking strike was either a faster cast or removed 2 boons, because atm I don’t feel it’s worth the initiative to remove one boon (when most enemies refresh boons faster than flanking strike can remove them). Since you like using swords I’d say Sword/Pistol is a better melee set, though if you enjoy S/D there’s nothing stopping you.
With S/D I prefer focusing on sustained damage over burst, which means less Precision and Crit damage and more focus on Power and Vitality/Toughness. Mix of Valkyrie, Soldier, and Berserker gear/trinkets. If you want to burst D/D or D/P are better weapon-sets.
Don’t use MF at all and it’s been the same for me.
I’m a fan of guesting finally being introduced.
My only issue is that I am unable to transfer back to my home server due to it constantly being “Full.” Will Arena Net lift the server capacity the day of, or a few days prior, when Guesting is implemented?
No, the other skills on the shortbow need to be tweaked so that spamming your auto-attack is not incentivized gameplay. As it is Crossfire shoots fast enough imo. Condition trap ranger is incredibly strong without a need for an increase in the shortbow fire rate.
S/D is more sustained damage more than anything. Properly utilize dragon tooth and phoenix (and earthquake) in your fire field to stack might so that your damage output increases significantly. S/D damage output is better than D/D, you just have to get into the groove of properly utilizing your attunements.
But yeah, low level as an Ele is rough, like Zonzai said the class doesn’t really shine until around level 30. At the end of the day class just may not suit you man.
Same as the posters before me.
Gotta say, after the issues with the karka event reward this bug slipping through is kind of silly.
Same thing happened to me twice in a row.
Interesting. I’ve played a handful of the MMOs you’ve listed and this game has been MMO I’ve really gotten into the pvp, save for trolling open world in vanilla WoW as a teenager.
I can understand your issues I guess (though if cooldowns are such an issue for you play a Thief?), but I dunno’ man. I wouldn’t say the game is shallow, but rather that it just doesn’t suit you. Play the PvP in the other MMOs you enjoyed.
I prefer a minimal amount of skills per player and an emphasis on positioning/team-play over managing 20+ skills hot-keyed all over my screen. I don’t feel an abundance of hot-keys adds any complexity to a game (from a pvp perspective). I also feel the game’s combat feels faster than any other MMO I’ve played, but that’s just me.
how do you even define “balanced”? i hear people all the time saying “balanced” but they don’t even describe what is this kitten called “balanced”.
and how do you craft this “balanced” build in a capture point pvp?
It’s rather easy.
Nerf bunkering capabilities, nerf burst capabilities.
The meta will shift to balanced/heavy dps pressure builds ( like the old GW) where burst will simply have a niche role as counter comps .
More build diversity, more entertaining to watch, since you don’t die in a fart/never die, but it’s always in a cycle where you don’t know who’s going to win the fight.
Easy.
+1 to this.
Fight should be longer, just like Guild Wars was. A nerf to the overall bursting/bunking capability will surely move the meta to a more balanced one.
I never played the original, but I agree. I don’t think it will ever happen though. The balance team have yet to address burst in any way as we receive balance patches, which leads me to believe they see no issue with the burst/defensive extremes in the game. Which is a shame, since my favorite fights/games are against players with balanced builds.
I don’t agree.
On a casual level it’s fun as hell, but I personally can’t play it for more than 15 or so minutes (conversely I can’t play sPvP for more than that long due to burst thieves, but 5v5 is fun). I would love to see ctf in the game with the classes in the games balanced around that though.
The snowball mini-game doesn’t have enough depth for me to play extensively, but I do agree it is fun.
no. Even with 100 seconds cast time, it won’t affect the combo damage
unless you put an big red icon on thief’s head when he cast steal
His argument isn’t about the damage, but about giving people on the receiving end more time to react.
A Warrior’s 100b, for example, is easier to identify due to bull’s charge initiating the burst is easier to dodge, as the Warrior’s wind-up is visible. Same with the Ele’s typical burst rotation (RTL into updrat, ect.).
I personally wouldn’t mind A-net testing it out, as how instantaneous a Steal x Mug into a basilisk’d BS can feel cheesy/hard to avoid for a large pool of players. Making it more obvious/easier to avoid may be a good idea.
nope, is 20k health that build need change amulet for soldier, the stats i put was from using soldier amuler, otherwise you will have 48% critic damage. to avoid thief burst you can use any of the BS, one make you invulnerable, other teleport you and the other give you protect and stability with any of this is impossible you killed quick form a thief and you have lot of dodge and CC
if everything failed you deserve to die, you have lot of things to avoid any class burst damage, on 1vs1 for sure you will not die against a thief or warrior
Well, what you posted had a Valkyrie amulet with a Berserker’s Jewel. With a Soldier’s amulet they still have 35% crit chance but the damage is horrible due to the lack of crit damage from the Soldier’s amulet.
To be specific, I’m telling you numbers with Divinity runes and 10 in Air magic, since most typically use Divinity runes and 10 in Air magic.
I was not saying Thief burst is unavoidable, I know how to avoid it – that was not the point of my response. If you’re arguing 1v1 then yeah, against a Thief and Warrior a D/D Ele will typically come out on top. The game isn’t really balanced for 1v1s though, is it?
(edited by DieQuex.4096)
A good elementalist has the best of all worlds, he can tank, can have a variety of boons with high duration, he can heal abundantly, AoE dps very well and has amazing mobility. Oh and their downstate is one of the best in the game.
If you build it as a bunker for tournament games, you can survive fights against 2-3 people for a very long time, which makes it the best bunker class for holding a point.
Your AoE dps as a bunker is decent and your heal is ridiculous.
If you die you are able to quickly move back to your point.Burst eles are amazing for team fights with their huge AoE spells and knockbacks, but i would say they are fine.The real problem is bunker eles.
lol all this qq, may i just ask which 2-3 vs the ele is. because we have 13.8k hp and thief combo can hit that in 1 go, shatter mesmer can hit like aoe 15k combo. would love to see which 3 classes your talking about ele tanking.
it seems we have huge regen BUT we need it. lowest hp pool and light armour. gg.
go ahead, nerf our heals. how does a light armour survive like that?
I agree. I played D/D ele and it really isn’t that OP. It’s good but not OP. Also he is right about the health pool though I had almost 100 hp less than that even.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhImmbyR4gjDAkHm4SJCFP0QRxM5A;ToAA0CnowxgjAHLOOck4MEZCB
power:1839
critic chance: 25% (is 45% because you have perma fury)
critic damage: 33%
toughness: 1485
almost 20k healthyou have 3 BS, you have shocking aura every 20s, you have almost vigor up in combat, you have perma swiftness (no one can run from you) how this isnt OP?
with this build if you are good you are almost invencible and as soon you stack +250 power and change that weapon for another with sigil fire or +5%damage killing guys is easy
14k Health with a little over 2.4k armor. Most don’t run with eagle runes or 20 in Air Magic, so with Fury the Crit Chance is typically around 35%. The build is strong (and I agree with most people that shocking aura is too good atm), but that build you just posted can be countered, and potentially gibbed by a Thief or Warrior if shocking isn’t up or if Mist Form is on CD.
I personally feel Elementalists are fine. If they aren’t playing defensively they’ll probably get insta-gibbed by a Thief otherwise. Typically why I keep a Soldier’s amulet when playing in hotjoin, in case I see an overabundance of Thieves.
Save for shocking aura being annoying, how is D/D Ele OP (in hotjoin especially)? I personally still mostly see Thieves and Mesmers, so I dunno’ what to say OP. There weren’t any real changes that made Eles OP. The main aspect of the D/D Thief burst that makes them obnoxious in hotjoin hasn’t been touched so still seeing a lot of Thieves isn’t surprising.
You’ll probably see even more Mesmers when a larger majority of the sPvP playerbase figure out how to efficiently instagib with a glass shatter Mesmer.
Only thing that will really solve the issue is weaning people to ranked Tournies, whenever they are introduced.
Anyone who’s annoying to fight will be considered OP. Its extremely annoying to fight a stealth spamming thief, an evasive mesmer, a chain blocking bunker guardian, or a bunker Ele who never stops moving, constantly has protection/regeneration/stability up, and rubberbands from 20% to 100% hp 8 times a fight. A good burst ele can also be very annoying – eat 1 updraft, and by the time you have control of your character again you’re at 20% health.
I’m not saying any of these specs are OP, but they are annoying to fight (especially if your particular class/build doesn’t have the tools to pin them down), and to most people, annoying = cheap = OP.
Well…what you describe as being annoying/cheap I don’t find annoying at all. Most of what you described is counterable (save for the Guardian blocking, which was mostly as bad as it was because of a bug). D/D Eles can be countered with boon stripping and correctly timing your classes’ burst (or, depending on their build, tacking conditions).
The only thing you don’t mention being annoying in your post is the high burst capability certain classes can dish out, so is that the kind of meta-game most people want? Classes with faceroll burst that run around insta-gibbing? I personally enjoy that aspect of the pvp in GW2 the least.
For me, potentially getting annihilated by a Warrior in 2-3 seconds is what I would describe as cheap, if anything (not saying they are OP, just cheap. Thief burst is still borderline overpowered imo). I think that is more in line with what people consider cheap/OP, given that the forum is still filled with complaints about Thieves and Warriors.
Outside of shocking aura, I personally feel D/D Eles are fine.
No real use for Signet of Shadows in sPvP, I’d personally switch that for something more useful (Caltrops for point assaulting or Shadow Refuge to actually help your team mates). Or another venom, since you seem to be using a Condition venom build.
Should try using your shortbow more in larger encounters. Choking Gas poison and detonated Clusterbombs are useful in team fights.
Save for shocking aura being annoying, how is D/D Ele OP (in hotjoin especially)? I personally still mostly see Thieves and Mesmers, so I dunno’ what to say OP. There weren’t any real changes that made Eles OP. The main aspect of the D/D Thief burst that makes them obnoxious in hotjoin hasn’t been touched so still seeing a lot of Thieves isn’t surprising.
You’ll probably see even more Mesmers when a larger majority of the sPvP playerbase figure out how to efficiently instagib with a glass shatter Mesmer.
Only thing that will really solve the issue is weaning people to ranked Tournies, whenever they are introduced.
There is nothing wrong with vertical progression, i played a lot of games with vertical progression in the past, but the problem is when you add vertical progression in a game that was advertised without it (or is better to say, without a mandatory gear grind).
If someone tell you that a new drink is the thing you will love if you hate coke, and then the new drink taste EXACLTY like a coke, someone will surely love it, but the original buyers the ones that thrust on the advertise, have all the rights to be concerned.
Pretty much what Ganzo said (though the analogy made me lol). Nothing wrong with vertical progression but game was not advertised as such, rather there was a heavy emphasis on a plateau at level 80, cosmetics, exploration, ect. I mean, if they want to add vertical progression to increase retention that’s fine, but I personally feel it’s a lost cause given that most who left due to the lack of it at “end-game” won’t come be coming back in droves due to adding bits and pieces of gear in content patches sprinkled about.
Tbh if I wanted to play a game with heavy emphasis on gear/stat progress I would play something else (and I do). I like how easy getting the gear you wanted to experience dungeons competently/WvW is and would be put off if obtaining Ascended gear is as much of a grind as getting the silly trinkets/backpieces are in Fractals.
I personally feel FotM, and the emphasis on obtaining the items/gear there, devalues a lot of the game as a whole; though I guess it also shows a large amount of the playerbase don’t care about the game world/exploring. Or maybe Arena Net does a bad job at providing incentive for exploring the world? Dunno.
I don’t understand why people are saying Thieves when he mentions “skillful play.” Backstab Thief is the best class to pub stomp in sPvP yeah, but that’s because of the low skill-cap of the Thief class (D/D burst in particular).
In 8v8 hotjoin it is hard to say. If your team is scattered you’ll likely only get an engagement when you inadverently run into the zerg. Kind of want to say Necromancer, due to how good their AOE damage is. Their movement is incredibly slow though, so you’ll likely die whenever you are outnumbered, even if your build is bulky.
Otherwise Thief/Elementalist due to their ability to roam around the map easily. Thief moreso since it escaping from engagements/roaming is incredibly easy with stealth and Infiltrator arrow.
From the perspective of a higher leveled character it is completely fine. For the people also taking part in events that are in the level range? Kind of ruins the experience as it becomes incredibly difficult to do enough damage to get credit for events, in comparison to the higher leveled guy mowing through mobs (many an experience on alt characters).
Scaling definitely needs to be adjusted.
From the balance perspective of a Necromancer?
Necromancers are strong in team fights, and I have personally never had issues with a Warrior 1v1. You can fear them, chill them, and then destroy them with bleeds/wells due to their limited amount of Condition removal. The pvp in this game also is not really balanced around 1v1s.
So yeah, Necros v. Warrior, should typically go in favor. Thief is your typical pub stomper atm.
Why is this thread intended to talk about both Thieves in PvE and PvP? It gets a bit confusing debating opinions when two different audiences are discussing aspects of the same class.
As far as PvP is concerned, I felt that backstab damage needed to be nerfed, not CnD (generally feel burst needs to be toned down across all classes as the insta-gibbing that occurs in PvP is not fun or competitive). I also feel how stealth works at the moment makes certain Thief builds incredibly obnoxious to deal with (moreover in WvW, which is moreover the culprit of culling).
I feel the stealth debuff should last longer while base stats for the Thief need to be re-adjusted to compensate for not being able to literally be invisible for the majority of engagements.
Certain weapon sets also don’t mesh well. For example, the Pistol/Dagger set shines on being in melee to pull of CnD into Sneak Attack, yet its 3 skill is Shadow Strike, which Shadow Steps the Thief away from the opponent. Why not switch Shadow Strike and Shadow Shot from Dagger/Pistol so that both sets flow better? Dagger/Pistol already has a gap closer in the way of Heartseeker, so I would imagine Shadow Strike would mesh better as means of Dagger/Pistol creating distance without having to relying on Shortbow’s Infiltrator Arrow.
Body Shot is also useless on both P/P and P/D sets; as both rely on Conditions (P/P to a lesser degree), why not make the 2 skills apply Burning? Or poison, anything that is actually more useful for the weapon sets so that P/D does not rely on spamming Autos for bleeds and P/P 3 for Unloads.
Those are my suggestions. Lower BS damage (though I would hope the PvP team considers generally lowering burst potential across all classes for a more enjoyable pvp environment). Adjust stealth debuff timers while compensating in the way of base stats or something of that nature. Fix the synergy of certain weaponsets (P/P and P/D dagger in particular). That’s about it.
(edited by DieQuex.4096)
There are very few specs that counter “everything.” Builds that rely on conditions typically turn into a battle of attrition if your opponent has any sort of condition removal, so if you are unable to overwhelm whoever you are fighting with Conditions then it will likely be a long fight (and seeing your build you probably rely solely on bleeds, and since you mention regening health while in stealth you are probably a P/D Thief).
Engineers and Necros (and Rangers, though I’ve never tried) have better options with regard to condition builds in pvp, so if you want a class with more satisfying condition damage try those. If you are asking for tips on utilizing a condition Thief… just know that you can’t every fight due to your build.
I have a condition Thief and typically don’t bother fighting Guardians and Elementalists. They are typically built defensively, and have an advantage against you before you engage them due to their abundance of opportunities to remove Conditions. Poison helps with dealing with their passive-healing, but the fights still are incredibly long, and if they are of equal skill level it isn’t uncommon for the fight to be endless.
Think of ele as an out-fighter and warrior would be a swagger(taking your boxing analogy to the level of smb who actually knows box). Yes, out-fighters have to work more, throw in more punches while evedaing the opponent better. A swagger pretty much stands there, soaks the hits and delivers a K.O when he gets the chance. Are out-fighters UP because they have to work harder? Before you answer, Muhammad Ali is an out-fighter.
Oh talk about summing it up. This guy is good. He is right the people who say ele has to use all there stuff to compete against a class such as warrior who can just use 1 skill. Clearly warrior is an easy class. A no brainer class. A class that probably is unfair at the moment due to being so easy to survive and deal massive damage. It’s not eles that need there auto attack to be more dmg output to equal a warriors skill less ability it’s warriors who need to become more challenging to play to obtain there high damage.
Challenge is fun. Skill less and button mashing blindfolded is boring and repetitive childs play. The people who play Warriors are not to blame it’s the people who choose how warrior should work.
It’s other proffesions that need to become more challenging to play to obtain there high damage.
Challenge is fun. Skill less and button mashing blindfolded is boring and repetitive childs play. The people who play these professions are not to blame it’s the people who choose how professions should work.
Fixed.
These problems are still relevent now so… shhhhhh!!!!
I agree, a challenge is fun, but playing an elementalist isn’t the challenge, it is the chore getting in the way of the actual fight. You should be more focused on the enemy than thinking if swapping would be worth it. Challenges are fun, but fighting your ability bar is not my kind of fun.
I love my ele, simply because every fantasy game I’ve ever played I’ve been the “mage,” our class design spits on that. I still enjoy myself, but watching other classes steamroll through enemies with less effort saddens me greatly.I’m sorry that you guys don’t enjoy the class in its current state. But honestly, maybe it just isn’t for you.
There are PLENTY of ele’s that love how the class plays, and absolutely own face with it. In fact, D/D ele is known as one of the best, if not the best, 1v1 class in the game.
So I get a little irritated when folks on this board talk about how the class is broken, or is a flawed concept, or whatever.
The class could use some fixes, but so could every other class. All in all, ele is pretty good in its current state. If you think it’s terribly flawed…then maybe it just isn’t for you.
Pretty much. I think certain people are correct in that some other classes need to be brought to the Eles level in complexity, but atm I love the way Ele plays. Attune-swapping is incredibly fun and I don’t particularly care that the combos for burst require more than other classes.
I personally would be a bit upset if they simply buffed Ele auto-attacks or whatever to make them as mindless as other classes. I’ve leveled both a Warrior and Thief to 80 and find them incredibly boring after giving the Ele a shot (and I don’t know what some people are on but Ele has way more survivability than a warrior, and can still dish out damage/control).
The combos aren’t really that difficult tbh. I don’t use a gaming a mouse or whatever; using simple common keybinds and I can perform my combos through muscle-memory. Ele has been the most rewarding class for me in the game in its current state.
Yes, cross server, ect.
Yes, cross-sever ect.
Not really. If your opponent isn’t dead you can still spam 2. Or if you screwed up the combo switch to your shortbow and infiltrator arrow away/stealth. It’s generally very easy to escape a fight alive as a Thief. I’ve tried both builds and personally feel BS is easier and more of a gimmick.
P/D is condition build is by no means superior to the D/D backstab build, and the backstab build is also capable of taking out multiple opponents lol. The ability to take out multiple opponents is attributed to skill man, not the build.
Honestly, only an idiot would let a thief get all those heartseekers in & if you try spam HS then try to escape with SB Infiltrator Arrow, you can’t because you have no initiative.
I said the D/D thief can either spam Heartseeker or Infiltrator Arrow away, not do both in sequence.
As for your bit about Condition Thieves having an easier time with people in WvW… I agree, but this is essentially a skill issue. I’ve won 1v3+ fights with my Warrior, with my Mesmer, and with my Thief using a variety of weapon sets. I was more skilled than those players and had better gear than a few, which is all it comes down to in WvW. If people carry Condition removal (or are bunkers with innate removal) handling a Condition Thief is easy. Killing them not so much, since they have a lot of passive healing and condition removal in stealth as you stated.
A D/D Thief can spec to be just as defensive as a some Condition specs btw. You sacrifice a bit of burst for survivability, and still kill opponents a lot faster than a P/D Condition Thief will.
Seeing the OP elaborate on his point throughout the thread…I can see where he’s coming from. I would respect a rework/nerf of the stealth mechanic if the Thief was given the tools to function without it.
At the moment are builds that are centered around stealth in order to utilize damage/control (Sword/Dagger thieves and Pistol/Dagger thieves). Adding a 10second debuff on stealth would render builds designed around those two weapon combinations useless. At the moment I don’t use my Thief much in WvW due to culling, which needs to be addressed in the WvW environment before talk about reworking stealth should be considered imo.
No disrespect, but after reading certain points you highlighted I didn’t bother to read the rest of your post OP (also due to time constraints). A few people have already pointed out that an MMO isn’t characterized by gear progression so I won’t comment on that.
On your point that a manifesto isn’t a “binding contract?” This is true, but they marketed the game otherwise and people purchased the game because those advertised components appealed to them. The people who wanted more gear progression did not follow the advertisements, and trying to appeal to that audience won’t satisfy them. The majority have likely already left because there are better options out there that will satisfy their need for progression.
Why would anyone play this game for a watered down version of gear progression when other MMOs do it better? I can understand why Arena-net might think catering to them would do be better for the game…but I think it’s too little to late for that at the moment.
The only thing adding gear progression will do at this point will turn off people who already play the game for what it is – which is kind of already happening.
Not really. If your opponent isn’t dead you can still spam 2. Or if you screwed up the combo switch to your shortbow and infiltrator arrow away/stealth. It’s generally very easy to escape a fight alive as a Thief. I’ve tried both builds and personally feel BS is easier and more of a gimmick.
P/D is condition build is by no means superior to the D/D backstab build, and the backstab build is also capable of taking out multiple opponents lol. The ability to take out multiple opponents is attributed to skill man, not the build.
Don’t know what fixit and Sir Morgan are talking about. In PVE probably Necro but for WvW and the like Ele are more survivable with more burst potential. The issue with Ele is that you either spec for burst (while being immensely squishy) or for survivability. I prefer Necros atm.
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