Guild Wars 2

McKenna, what about 543 to start with. But when a server is behind 10 points or more, it gets +1 bonus for winning a skirmish.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Why 5,4,3?
Both 5,4,3 and 3,2,1 were suggestions from the Official Feedback Thread: WvW Skirmishes (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Official-Feedback-Thread-WvW-Skirmishes/page/2). And we have seen general interest in trying 5,4,3. If there is a different set of numbers you would like to try instead, feel free to suggest them.

How is 5,4,3 different than 3,2,1?
Since there has been a lot of debate on this, with most people being right but debating different points, there are three things that are true:

1. The scores will be closer.
2. The placements won’t change.
3. This could impact world rating used for glicko matchmaking.

This is assuming play style remains identical to how it was when 3,2,1 was in play. Player behavior may change since the scores will be closer, but we aren’t sure if they will. This was the same situation with 2,1,1. We weren’t sure if it would change WvW play style, but players seemed generally interested in giving it a shot and one of the reasons WvW is a 3 team gamemode, rather than a 2 team gamemode, is so that worlds could team up and try to take down the dominate world. This isn’t something we incentivized very much before 2,1,1 but having 2v1s in WvW was intended behavior and when it works correctly can lead to more balanced matches.

Will 5,4,3 be there forever?
As stated with the patch notes with 2,1,1 and stays true for 5,4,3: “If we aren’t happy with the results we can change the Skirmish score values again.” If we get feedback that players don’t like 5,4,3 and want to go back to 3,2,1 we can do that. If we get feedback that players want to try some different numbers that we haven’t tried before, we can do that. Changing the numbers is easy for the team, but do keep in mind that it requires a game build, and that schedule is determined by the studio as a whole.

Do we expect 5,4,3 to be a cure-all for scoring problems?
No. 5,4,3 will not make match scores dramatically better than 3,2,1. The scores might look closer, but if a world is dominating 5,4,3 isn’t going to stop them from winning. Population imbalance is the biggest factor in scoring problems and changing the skirmish score values isn’t going to change that. Population imbalance is a different problem that we are working on solving outside of changing the skirmish score values.

Liked the new map execution, especially the way story is integrated. But the story instances felt as if they were written by different people who have conflicting views of the characters.
Aurine story was consistent enough, and fun if silly. I can see how it can work to bond the player to the npc. I was even considering getting its mini after that instance, even though I hated the silly design at first. The last mission ruined most of the story so far. Terrible design and characterization. I liked Bram in s2. But in the last mission I was really starting to think that the writers got confused. It felt like they were trying to shoehorn a character into a role that he was not designed for. Rather than make Braham a more complex character, it made him feel as someone written by a lot of different people who have not read the design document. The scroll of fire felt like a horrible deusex machina(sp?) to me. It was not explained, or developed enough to make any sense.

EOTM is probably what you are looking for.

Ehh? There is no 2v1. The picture just shows that mag played better than us/ had more organization/ppl/coverage in ebg. the match up on the bls has been pretty fun. I havent played much for a while but this weekend was fun. Jumped to ebg, and plenty of ppl who know that spawn has more exits, can join ts were having fun. fa backcapping isnt much of a 2v1.

Jeknar.6184:

Maguuma won’t give YB keep back because they hate YB (like pretty much every other server). And by making this rant thread you just doing exactly what they want you to do: spill salty tears.

Plenty of ppl on yb are enjoying the ebg zergling tears . So hopefully mag can keep it for a while longer. The weak will get purged or learn to play. Or best of all will learn not to worry too much. Anyway, keep it up , been a fun weekend.

The guy on voice changer?

If its a question of bg/jq guilds ‘withering’ or every smaller server not being able to grow,
let JQ/BG guilds slim down for a bit.

Maybe do a 4 week test run to see how it works. if wvw pop in general drops, revert.

1. no

2. no

3. no

All they need to do is show each server name , so ppl know what server you are from. A merge might just end with what we started. Maybe poll people on the low tier servers on this?

On millenium it looks like the links for na are pretty good. GJ wvw team.

I sense a zergling.

Gord.8654:

Jeknar.6184:

Gord.8654:

I prefer the days before “The Server with the biggest blob always wins”.

And when was that? Because since 2012 the biggest server always win.

Have you played since 2012 because the early days of WvW were nothing like they are today. Matches actually mattered, skillful play actually mattered and and people actually tried. I’m sure i’m not the only one that feels this way…

lol. Early wvw was about fighting invisible mapques , flying orbs and herds of bots in the lake . WvW is not perfect. But it was far more broken.

TY McKenna, its nice to see anet wvw team be involved.
Keep it up.

I like the skirmishes, but i think the numbers should be 3 4 and 5 points per skirmish.

morrolan.9608:

Sarrs.4831:

morrolan.9608:

The results have been equalised via skirmishes which is fair.

I don’t know what precisely you mean by this. It’s true that the impact of night-capping has been reduced in extreme circumstances but that doesn’t address the fundamental premise that population imbalances create imbalanced skirmishes and that those imbalanced skirmishes should provide less points than balanced skirmishes.

I mean that winning the skirmish at 4 am is worth exactly the same as winning it at 8pm. The imbalance in points is the effect, the cause is the population imbalance. If you treat the effect you don’t fix the actual cause and indeed it would create other undesirable consequences.

Sarrs.4831:

morrolan.9608:

You’re still going to be outnumbered it won’t change that except because of players leaving the game.

I am curious to know how many players would actually leave as a result of increased impact of NA skirmishes. To the best of my knowledge, most guilds ignore it for the most part.

There has been feedback to the effect that players who play during non US peak times would be extremely unhappy and would leave the game. This feedback was in response to the leaked document a while back with proposed new scoring changes including making points during prime time worth more.

As someone who plays in EU timezone I can call bs to that. most eu players I know prefer balance in eu timezone itself. The value of the points maters little. So having points have more impact in na timezone for na makes more sense since only 3 or 4 NA servers have enough non na population to mater. Same on EU servers. EU timezone should have more impact.

This is an enjoyable thread, pls continue.

Amenaza.8346:

You after 3 years still care about a completely pointless scoring system.

You feel in the right to commandeer public teamspeak channels because the commander does not come to save “your” tower.

You have used the phrase “true way of playing WvW” and were actually serious.

You feel entitled to special privileges within your community and that the server owes you something for your sacrifices nobody asked you to make.

Not a scout/guard, but I find it more hilarious when zerglings complain about no call-out in map/ts when anyone on ts/ map chat could see the call 5 min before a keep or tower flips.

TY scouts. You are crazy, but most of the ppl appreciate what you do.

Spurnshadow.3678:

I think this is a great change and is helping things a lot. I think a lot of people posting so far don’t quite understand that ppt and ppk are not more or less important than before. nothing has changed. It’s just mitigating scoring to a 1, 2, and 3. Servers with any dominant timezone can’t tick for 600 (I still think in terms of the old totals) for hours.

If one looks at our current T1 matchup, TC is 75% of BGs total war score. However, they’re only 90% of our Victory points. That’s making it a much closer fight.

However, there does need to be tweeks. As one can also see, FA is 54% of Blackgate’s total warscore. But they are 45% behind us in victory points. I suspect this disparity is going to grow as the week goes on, because it’s most likely that TC or BG will be winning the skirmishes and FA will most likely be placing last.

I think this is due to the ratio of 1, 2, and 3. For arguments sake, lets play this out for the week with a total hypothetical situation of BG winning every skirmish, TC placing 2nd, and FA placing 3rd. At the end of the week, the total victory points would reflect that, with FA having 84, TC with 168, and BG with 252. But if one were to look at a typical warscore match, rarely does the match have such drastic numerical differences. It may be that this week is just a bad week to judge by because FA is in our match up. Too soon to tell.

But I think that if the ratio was lessened for whoever wins the skirmish, that would make things closer. For example, instead of allotting 1, 2, and 3, make it 2, 3, and 4. This way, the difference between the first place winner and last place winner is 2:1 rather than 3:1, as it stands now. A 3:1 ratio can be very discouraging.

good point. Maybe even 5 6 7 ? Just need to make sure winning actually maters in each skirmish.

I like the system. But can we have score be 3/2/2 if 1st server is more than 10vp ahead?

Sounds interesting. Might reinstall the game to see how the new changes to wvw are working out.

Great to hear.

The time of no transfer costs was horrible. Its pretty cheap as is anyway.

JediSange.1645:

I agree with a lot of what you say. I think it’s a really level-headed outlook and would be interested to know more of what ArenaNet is planning. My assumption right now is they’re collecting a lot of data with the server pairing. For now, I remain patient and hopeful.

Xenesis.6389:

People need to accept that players will move to find better situations for themselves, a guild that wants to fight will have more opportunities to do so in t1 than they would in t4.

I would disagree with this — kind of. This week we were reliably beating larger groups because we can outplay people at T4. If your guild is good, you can win fights in T4 a lot easier than in T1. Even if you’re getting “zerged on”, a smaller, competent team will do better. So much of what I see in T1 is back capping. Yes, there are havok fights as well — But mostly back capping and a blob full of actual builds so it’s harder to zerg bust or for smaller groups to shine.

Xenesis.6389:

I think both the developer and player need to figure things out and get on the same page for links.

Nail. Head. Agreed.

In t4 YB is running much bigger than sf/dh . YB havoc groups are literally bigger than t4 zergs. Any guild group should be able to farm bigger pug group/pve group. Its not a server or tier , or skill issue. Its population. YB has far more wvw pop than t4 servers.
I am not counting random pve rangers/ ebg zerglings. They need to fix both pop and ocx/sea pop if they want t3/t4 to compete with t2.

Nuzt.7894:

atheria.2837:

Gudradain.3892:

The solution is better server pairing. Anyone could see after the first day that CD quad server alliance was too strong for the rest of tier 4.

SoS and CD are doing what they want to do, six against one and then thinking they have so much skill when numbers and nothing more are tearing Tier 4 into a “we don’t want to run today, they just blob us out” for most guilds.

Wait I thought it was YB & SoS vs CD, can you guys please make up your minds it’s starting to get so confusing which conspiracy theory is the most absurd.

I am pretty sure that was a joke.
From wwwintel it looks like YB has lowest number of deaths. So CD is probably the one being focused.

Feel sorry for gom/sf/dh etc. Not really for SBI. anet just needs to relink.
T3 is pretty fun without sbi though.

I vote yes! the last 2 (3?) have not done enough damage . Another one might finish the job.

Great News T!
TY for working on this.

lil devils x.6071:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

littlemunster.1059:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

BG , JQ, YB, TC, DB should not be linked at all.

Too much dream = nightmare. BG, YB, TC, DB, and Mag is the new king of PPT. I went from JQ to Mag to YB to BG. TC, DB, Mag probably have 50% or more of the population from JQ. When BG faces YB, we fought arrow carts. When BG faces JQ, we saw few turtles that are just plainly food for us.

Can you type this in English?

Translation:
JQ should be linked because they have lost too much population and have less population than T3/ T4 servers atm. Much of JQ has left server.

TY

Johje Holan.4607:

Jiminy.8340:

Johje Holan.4607:

No amount of server combinations are going to be able to satisfactorily equalize populations 24 hours a day. So what’s left is scoring adjustments to mitigate the negative effects of unequal populations at different times of the day.

Or, you know, getting some SEA/OCX folks on your server to fight the other SEA/OCX people doing you damage. I know it’s a weird idea – actually playing for 24 hours with multiple people on a 24×7 MMO.

Recruiting is not the answer. It just moves around the imbalance.

There are not enough SEA/OCX players to spread out to every server. And trying to spread out equally is such a logistical nightmare that it is impossible. Additionally, SEA and OCX are completely different populations.

Therefore what you get is stacking. Some servers have a lot of SEA and/or OCX players, some have little.

Achieving 24 hour population balance is not possible across numerous servers. Therefore the only thing left is a mechanism to lessen the negative effects of the imbalance. I see three possibilities for this:

• Divide the day up into smaller segments and match the mini-segments together with other servers of like population. This is probably not possible either given the wide disparity of times that people play.

• Incentives to attack the strongest server. This may not be possible either since often the population imbalance is so great that no amount of incentive can make a difference.

• Scoring changes to mitigate the negative effects of the imbalance. This is the mechanism that I think has the greatest chance of success.

This

Aeolus.3615:

dank.3680:

I just want to point out that currently on Mag EBG is queued, the bl’s are dead save for a couple pvdooring ktrains.

This is the Alpine I remember, and why I didn’t want it back.

Players love pvd karma train, i think for many that equals a GG and skillfull play, reason most players might be want the pvd alpine bl….
Most players did not like the desert BL because they needed more effort.

GW2 is know to be a awfull pvp and wvw game, they take what they do….

GG Anet, another bad move, but skrits love it.

THIS.

LOL, they did?

We need a new poll!

littlemunster.1059:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

BG , JQ, YB, TC, DB should not be linked at all.

Too much dream = nightmare. BG, YB, TC, DB, and Mag is the new king of PPT. I went from JQ to Mag to YB to BG. TC, DB, Mag probably have 50% or more of the population from JQ. When BG faces YB, we fought arrow carts. When BG faces JQ, we saw few turtles that are just plainly food for us.

Can you type this in English?

BG , JQ, YB, TC, DB should not be linked at all.

TPMN.1483:

Devils Toy.9205:

Synosius.9876:

i hope anet doesnt read this thread and actually think… oh maybe we made a mistake?

the issue jq has isnt lack of players, its why dont the players they do have want to be in wvw?

like rly stop and think about this, the system counts enough players to mark the server as full but doesnt consider how long they spend in wvw or how effective is their organization.

this pairing system is actually pretty smart. if one wanted to play on jq they could just transfer to the guest server. if the guest server becomes over stacked they can be separated.

but still ppl complain that score doesnt matter then lament their lack of coverage. they say everyone else is over stacked while the solution is staring them in the face.

The issue with JQ is/was an internal one…People should sit back and think about why all the guilds that were once the core of JQ have left.

I couldn’t agree more it’s an internal JQ organisational and attitude problem of NA people running the servers. Guilds don’t feel welcome on JQ.

Sea people keep out of the JQ Forums/Politics and don’t give a rats about who’s running JQ.
The NA populous has steadily fallen due to a Number of times toxic individuals and attitudes like “guilds who come here integrate with us” – there is no real working with guilds to integrate them in. Guilds have to force there way through the door…not a great start for any community.

There is no friendly atmosphere within the so called leadership of JQ – it’s been a mess for several years that I have been here. When individuals in so called responsibility troll and be excessively rude over a number of years… You think what is the point in fighting for your server… Diddly squat is the answer.

It’s funny because the guilds and individuals left leaving a dying populations in NA/EU- but they still refuse to address the core internal server community issues.
Anyone who doesn’t agree with a select few frankly are trolled and called names, and wtf did you do attitude… Doesn’t make for a great community.

It’s funny those in JQ leadership looking at this thread openly laugh how the official forums are cancer and cannot see past there own attitudes and how people in this thread may have actual valid comments. Prehaps actual acceptance these people might have a point and real dialog might be a way forward – but nope the usual dismissive attitude I’ve come to accept is prevailant.

Keep it up – when real change happens maybe you’ll find more people with you and some returning faces.

Right now we’re considering issing off to a proper EU server – so keep up with the usual snarky comments on the forum and typical gif wars. That’s about all you’ll find on JQ is “gif wars 2.0”

Just an fyi. Every server is like that. There are some minor differences but mostly its the same on NA. For fun on any server ignore “pixel politics”. As for moving to EU, it is great for fights if you are in a guild.

Voted for score.

The hilarity of JQ+IOJ is great. I feel for IOJ.

style.6173:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

LOL. How did bg benefit from merging with ET? It probably screwed them up more than anything. They were already stacked. JQ is still bigger than most servers, it will survive I am sure. BG vs TC is going to be interesting though.

It benefitted them mostly because yak’s got stuck with anvil rock who had no population.

BG had plenty of pop before the merge. All the queues are mostly bg players. Also last time I checked most ppl on YB were happy with being linked to AR. I am not on BG, just find the logic of these complaints too out there.

Cap inc dmg at 5 sources. This way a 5/10/15/20 man group that can focus can farm a mapqueue.

LOL. How did bg benefit from merging with ET? It probably screwed them up more than anything. They were already stacked. JQ is still bigger than most servers, it will survive I am sure. BG vs TC is going to be interesting though.

Off hours should not have as much impact as they currently have. I am an off hours player but I can see that the influence of off hours is disproportionate. Voted for fixing night capping. Less ppt play in off hours is what we need anyway.

The system works better with more servers. With less servers in the mix its not really going to work. Especially with NA self-stacking illness. Hopefully the scoring removes night capping , but even than matchmaking is going to be a problem.

Never hated it. The changes are nice though.

All the banners/ships/etc gotta go.

9 est is way better.

You are saying everything is queued even when its not reset? Poor TC.

As someone playing on a potato , low poly models help.

Jayne.9251:

slimike.1693:

You enjoy small tier game play, that’s good, the bls still allow for that. It is 2 days after reset on the weekend and a wvw patch, your queues will go down. Wvw is finally alive again and there are fights, or ppt if that’s what you prefer, you can roam/havoc in the bls, zerg in eb, idk what you people are all crying so much for. Server loyalty died years ago.

There are tons of people who’s sole motivation is server pride and loyalty and the community that’s evolved from it.

I"m hoping Anet comes up with a way to let people keep wearing their server tags, even when combined. It won’t be that confusing. Red = enemy, no matter the tag name.

+1

Never play reset, so don’t care about reset queues, but last night had no issues with queues. GJ Anet.