Guild Wars 2

Personally I dislike stealth in general, and I do not mean limited to this game. When I look at any mmo game that is pvp-centric and I see it has a stealth class I take a pass on the entire game.

I bought this game back when it first came out and I still to this day have never made it to max level with a character. I have tried to play it several times, but my disdain of the stealth mechanics in general always drives me away.

I check back from time to time hoping to see that thieves have been nerfed to a state of being a joke class, because I like most the rest of the game, but it never happens. Quite the opposite for the majority of this games life actually. For most of the first couple years it seemed this class was the developers golden child.

i don’t understand how someone can claim to not know how to build a computer with how things are designed now. everything just plugs in and in most cases there is only 1 slot where it will fit.

the only part that you need to be careful with is properly seating the cpu on the board with the heat sink and all, but a 10 minute youtube video could easily show you how to do it without messing anything up.

if you order the components from one of the various online dealers you can build a pretty nice machine for under 1000.

i mean if you just have money to blow, because you are a doctor or lawyer or something, then whatever. do as you will. however, if you are in the average middle class range then buying a pre-built desktop unit is just a lot of wasted money.

This class became known as the OP class right after release and has retained that distinction for 6+ months. What followed was a massive bandwagon of players jumping on the class because being OP is fun and they wanted to have fun too.

Now when anything even looks like it might happen to infringe on that op fun they are enjoying and people start freaking out. I am not surprised even a little bit.

Honestly people should have seen it coming. The types who bandwagoned over to play thieves because they were considered OP are the types who will jump ship whenever things dont go their way. Its a fact.

Anyhow, hopefully Anet keeps on the path towards reducing this classes strength. It is not fun for the other classes when you can pop out of stealth and burst them down in seconds, or just turn invisible to reset the fight if it doesnt go your way, at which point you get to try again.

One classes enjoyment should not come at the expense of the entire game.

Meridian.8730:

Stop driving towards balance and ending up making all the professions level and equal

I almost spit out my coffee when I read this line.

So basically what you are saying is that it was fun being overpowered, but now that you are closer to balanced that its not fun for you anymore? seriously?

btw, the ability to turn invisible and reset fights is what I would consider survivability.

Do I really need to post another video of a thief just strolling along next to a zerg of enemies because he gets to be invisible?

I’m just waiting to see the patch notes.

If they still have a single class that can pop out of stealth and burst people down in a couple seconds, and if it doesn’t go their way just turn invisible and reset the fight until it finally does go their way…

…then I’m still going to consider this game a complete waste of 60$ and go do something else.

Longbow auto attack defies physics.

The only way it should do more damage at longer ranges is if you were to shoot it an upward angle and use gravity to increase its velocity on the downward arc, however that is not the case in game since you are easily obstructed on your shots.

Firing an arrow in a straight line will cause it to do less damage the further it goes.

I am not claiming to be the smartest person in the world, but this is not really complicated logic either.

Fenrir.4237:

DanH.5879:

please nerf the thief in wvw/spvp as much as you wish,
but please balance the pve one, right now, we are not equals (other classes are prefered more in dungeons than others)
eg. warrior was op already in pve, now with the banner buff, it’s almost a must, as guardians :/
balance us in pve and i will be happy

PvE will never be remotely good. NEVER. Maybe 100 years from now, but Player versus AI can be exploited so hard, and no matter how smart you make the AI, it’s still dumb as hell imo. This is why PvE can only go so far but PvP can go endlessly. And if you think PvE is, then you’re just delusional. Not at this moment of time at least and not soon either, that’s for kitten sure.

Anet made a huge mistake in not realizing this but eh that’s for an other topic I don’t really want to go to in-depth about anyways.

It’s just my take on it, and yea, I’m glad as well you don’t speak for all of us. Real glad.

Honestly I think Anet went the pve route because they realized they went so far off course from gw1 that they have no hope of actually having balanced pvp in this game, ever.

no dual classing to help classes that are weaker, no healers for group support to make up for a weaker class, and they added this ridiculous ninja stealth class.

I know this is the thief forum and nobody here would agree, but I still think they messed up bad putting thieves in the game at all. High mobility, high damage, and can turn invisible to avoid retaliation. Its a joke. “Hey guyz, I can run around right next to the zerg and pick off stragglers cuz i have leet skills called stealth buttons. I know every other class would get steamrollereds but its balanced because im awesomes and you arnt!”

no matter how much I want to like this game, I just can’t.

I don’t understand why fire and poison stack duration and only bleed stacks magnitude.

I mean for instance you have a sword/dagger/viper trap … its completely pointless. you have 3 poisons and you can keep it up indefinitely with the dagger alone.

Then on the other hand you can stack bleed up 25 stacks.

just doesn’t make sense to me.

The one thing that has prevented me from ever taking this game serious is one simple thing : class balance.

There has been a couple classes out of balance since the games release and they are still significantly better than the competition. It is also obvious because all the leet kiddies have flocked to those classes because being OP is where the fun is at.

It is impossible to take a pvp game seriously when its like that. Numbers can be adjusted quickly, they don’t have to be left unbalanced for 6 months.

If they want to promote their game they should look into television advertisements instead of free weekends.

Sure it may cost a significant amount more, but it has been proven time and again that people will buy ANYTHING if its advertised on television with key phrases such as “the best of the year” and “the one everyone is talking about.”

just saying.

Mr Pin.6728:

For whatever its worth and its most likely not much I think its the stealth mechanic. If you simplify it to say a game of checkers and imagine one player who has full view of the board as well as his opponents moves and reactions and another player who cannot see his opponents moves and can simply react to say a checker suddenly going missing from the board then you can see why people like to complain. It creates an idea of the game being heavily stacked in favor of one party. Add to this excellent mobility, high bursts and the ability to spam damaging moves consecutively which no other class can do and yeah, people are going to complain. I think that if the stealth were handled in a manner similar to other multi player match ups where the player is faintly visible (distortion, preadator effect, what have you) and even if a thief in stealth then would then have a to hit penalty (that is to hit the thief) you’d see a lot of complaints die away as at least a player could feels though they are stategizing against their opponent. Right now you get dinged out of left field and it feels cheap. This was the same complaint with culling and the removal of that is almost universally praised so yeah, I’m leaning towards stealth makes a thief feel OP.

I would have to agree. It is the ability to consistently stealth in combat and avoid retaliation.

The video I posted is perfect proof of that. Any other class would have died over and over with the stunts the thief was pulling off.

Stealth is a poor mechanic for a pvp game, but at least in other games once a stealth character is in combat they cannot enter stealth again. If they mess up, they die. It at least brings some amount of fairness to the playing field.

Sure he might be able to gank one guy, but then he will pay for it.

The current mechanics are skewed in the thieves favor and to make matters worse most thieves just think everyone else is bad/dumb because their classes mechanics will not allow them to do the same things.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Fritz.5026:

just for an example watch this guys video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCWywAXmVP4

this was just the first video i clicked on, i did not even have to try

please explain to me how another class, such as a ranger or necromancer, could pull off the same things.

edit – the guys commentary is so funny though. “Well I noticed things were not going my way so I stealthed” … for the 100th time in less than 10 minutes.

That exact video is not one of the best to show how OP the thief class is. Those players are totally clueless, letting a single thief take them all down one by one.

That crap can only happen in wvw…

like i said it was the first video i clicked on.

regardless of the other players you cannot sit there and tell me another class can pull off the same things.

he uses stealth to be able to take on large groups and consistently get out of trouble.

the other players could be complete noobs and they would still steamroll any other class.

just for an example watch this guys video:

this was just the first video i clicked on, i did not even have to try

please explain to me how another class, such as a ranger or necromancer, could pull off the same things.

edit – the guys commentary is so funny though. “Well I noticed things were not going my way so I stealthed” … for the 100th time in less than 10 minutes.

Thieves really do not help themselves when their defense always revolves around either “everyone else is bad except thieves”, “everyone else is dumb except thieves”, and similar statements you consistently see posted.

Just looking at it logically it is not statistically possible for everyone else except thieves to be bad/dumb players.

You guys really need to come up with a justifiable reason that you get some of the best mechanics in the game for mobility and evading combat combined with some of the best damage capabilities.

Other classes tend to have to give things up for those type of benefits.

There was a guy posting sPvP screen shots the other day and every match up was 3/4 thieves and mesmers with the couple oddballs from one of the other classes. That right there tells me something is wrong. It is a known fact that people gravitate to the overpowered classes.

X is faster and easier than Y

which do you want?

…and yes that is what this whole topic boils down to. So complicated right?

This whole conversation is just rather ironic if you ask me.

The supposed PvP game sitting here griping about how PvE isn’t balanced, lol. ArenaNet dropped the ball so hard on this game it’s just laughable.

Anyhow, anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that the majority of players in ANY game want to get things done as quickly and easily as possible.

Trying to argue that it is not true is just being ignorant of reality.

If group X can do things faster and easier than group Y, then people want group X.

This is not complicated or difficult to grasp. Sometimes people make me wonder.

I suggested a 3 second cooldown on thief skills to get rid of 1 button spamming months ago.

It was largely ignored because honestly thieves are in denial and just think that thief players are magically better than the rest of the world, like that actually makes sense.

darkdomino.9578:

I would have been much more receptive to some mature writing that actually treats the audience like they’ve got an above-average IQ.

unfortunately its a statistical fact that the majority of people in the world have a below intelligent IQ level.

If you think I am making it up simply google the statistics on it.

You will easily find the facts that point to the majority of adults functioning on an 8th grade education level and the average IQ being 100 or lower.

If you actually are intelligent, and not someone who just thinks they are, then you are actually in the minority.

Its not the worst mmo I have ever played, but I think many of the supporters simply have not played that many other games.

This game loses its shine very quickly.

You try to level up a character now and its a ghost town. If you can’t solo it then you have to skip it. Might as well be playing a 1 player game.

They can’t decide what they want to do with end game. They said it would not have loot farming and was about pvp, except since then they have added fractal farming and very little for pvp.

Its taken them this entire time just to fix culling so thieves would stop being invisible for entire fights while thieves think they are just magically more skilled than the rest of the world.

They put in DR because of farmers without any regard for it hurting actual players because it was the cheap and easy way out.

so on and so forth. I am sick of complaining.

The bottom line is I can jump on other games and have more fun and I still feel like I wasted the money buying this game.

So you have everyone being like “thieves are broken” and one guy who relentlessly posts and defends his favorite class with the canned responses of “thieves are just better players than everyone else” or some variant thereof.

I guess it just doesn’t even register to some people.

Anyhow I agree with Chokolata. The thief class is just poorly designed. Best mobility, best combat escapes, best avoidance of retaliation with stealth, some of the highest burst damage in the game or condition damage depending on how the player wants to go with it.

Each thing on its own would be fine, but all of them together on one class is just ridiculous.

Its one of the main reasons I have never bothered to spend any real time on this game.

Though I heard they fixed culling recently so at least the class doesn’t get to win through poor coding and sit there and be like “I’m better than you, kittenol”

Yeah so I was sifting through my mail when I noticed the big announcement mail from the guild wars team.

More ascended gear with even more powerful infusions to waste your life farming for on our pve treadmill when we promised you a pvp based game at release!

Thanks for letting me know there is absolutely no reason to waste my time logging in.

I am going to go play something else now.

honestly I think the genre has just played itself out over the last ten years and it has gotten so bad there is no recovery at this point.

back when it was daoc and eq things were different.

people expected it to takes many months to level up a single character
people expected getting groups to be very hard without a guild
people expected dungeons to be extremely difficult

so on and so forth…

now people expect to be max level in under a week, they expect groups to be handed to them, and they expect dungeons and things to be nothing more than easy mode loot treadmills they repeat on a daily basis.

times change and things change, yes its true.

the thing is this genre has changed so much that its a different type of person who plays these games these days.

these days this genre is filled with self entitled people who want everything handed to them while they play on easy mode.

some people need to just let the glory days go, they are gone forever, this is all that is left.

p.s. the holy trinity is still in this game, its just no so apparent as other games.

there has been multiple events where my elementalist had no chance to ever tank the boss, I would die in 2 hits, but I could do more damage faster than anyone else who was there. so as long as that guardian guy tanks the boss for me, I can blow its brains out.

sounds like tank and dps are already in effect and working in the game, though maybe not in the absolute traditional sense.

even the healing role is represented by warriors who dedicate themselves to healing shouts and other similar builds.

.
if gw2 was being completely honest, all they could really claim is it has trinity light.

if they are going to continue trying to be a PVE game then I would agree that the trinity needs to be brought into the game.

as it stands the pve is so mindlessly boring that I am 100% positive it is driving more people away than it is getting to stay.

if this is to a be a pve focused game they need a more intricate system of classes and abilities that makes pve entertaining and feel as if it takes some modicum of player ability.

.
if they want to focus on being a pvp game, then the trinity needs to stay gone.

however that does not seem to be the case and they cannot keep pulling off this flip flop routine with what their intentions for end game are before it just drives off whats left of the player base. pretty soon newer and better games will be coming out, they always do.

considering you claim to have 4 level 80 characters already I am going to assume most of your issue is you are just sick of leveling up in this the game.

this game honestly has one of the worst and most boring leveling treadmills ive seen in an mmo game in quite some time, and anyone who claims to have leveled multiple 80’s through pve is just going to amaze me at how they can be so easily amused.

the leveling is so ridiculously boring in this game. I am not even going to discuss how idiotic most of the main quest line quests actually are, but seriously…

you do a main quest and it jumps up 5 levels for the next one
you do all the hearts up to 5 levels higher than you and you are still 4 levels below your next class quest.
????
run around like an idiot looking for orange circles that can completed solo for 4 levels.

finally do the next main quest which takes 1 minute and then jumps up another 5 levels for the next one.
/facepalm

.
it doesnt matter what class i play, thats just boring.

i mean honestly, you played a warrior.
your decisions were : should i press one of these 3 shout buttons, or should i press 100blades?

and you are seriously saying the issue is that elementalist is boring to play?

I tried to play a thief and it felt like I was playing the class for dummies so I deleted him right away. I know that seems insulting, but its really how I felt.

I mean you start with a dagger and the first ability unlock is Heartseeker which is your go-to spam move for a dagger build. It starts you out by teaching you the proper method to play a thief is 2-2-2-2-2.

Then you can go to youtube and find countless videos where its 2-2-2-2-2 for daggers, or 3-3-3-3-3 for pistols, or some guy with a shortbow who never stops teleporting…. then you come to the forums and read these claims that its not a one button class, or that thief doesnt have insane mobility….

and it just feels like its the class for dummies.

.
I would love nothing more than to play an exciting thief class that really took a noticeable amount of skill to shine at, but this current model just is not it.

I think the topic is a bit misleading personally.

The issue is really with the Scepter main hand more than the focus offhand. Since the scepter is not a popular weapon the focus tends to get ignored. Its that simple.

ive been leveling my ele in pve with d/d and it is not that bad.

the first thing i see you doing is saying splitting stats between toughness and power. vitality is a better stat for pve, at least at that level range. i mean i could change my toughness 150 points and could barely tell the difference in damage i was taking, but 150 vitality nearly doubles your life bar at that level which does actually make a difference. so the first thing i would look at doing is changing toughness to vitality.

the second thing is you are squishy as an elementalist. you have one of the lowest health pools coupled with some of the worst armor in the game.

if you get to start a fight on your terms you can burn down multiple mobs faster than most classes can, but if you get surprised chances are you will take too much damage too fast and your best bet is to just run away and reset the fight.

i mean honestly, i was working on some hearts next to a guardian and ranger last night, and I killed things so much fast than they did it was almost silly… but i was also constantly on the edge of my seat an inch away from dead while they were comfortably plodding along with nearly zero risk of ever dying.

Asura. I just like the race. It is tiny and yet is so over the top with everything… and just when you would say they have little man syndrome they say “I feel six feet tall!”

Red Falcon.8257:

Ele is one of the easiest classes to play.
Skill ceiling is high for classes that need to rely reflexes, positioning and timing or particular setup mechanics; Ele has almost nothing of this.
Regardless if the average MMO baddie believes # of button equals skill ceiling, Ele is probably the second easiest class (Ranger takes first by far).
My little nephew plays an Ele very good, and fails to understand other classes because they are not as straight-forward and simple.
Worry not about Ele difficulty OP, class is pretty easy to play so far.

everyone has an opinion. I would personally say playing a thief is by far the most simple in the game since you can effectively mash one button and function in combat. You would probably say something about it takes skill to be a good thief, but for some reason it wont register that it takes skill to be a good anything… but blah blah.

.
As far as the OP goes I would say its not really that bad, but you do have to remember more than other classes to operate at full capacity. I mean when I play D/D I do the most damage by a large margin with fire and a person could simply stay in fire and play moderately well. However you have a lot of good abilities like the charge in air, or the knockdown in earth, or how water heals, so you have to remember which abilities are where so you can use them quickly. You also have to take into consideration you cant switch right back to fire either once you switch and it is a good bit to keep track of. However, I personally find most classes a bit boring. I mean most classes don’t weapon swap very often and only have a couple good skills with long timers, and thieves can effectively be 1-button wonders, at least the elementalist keeps you busy.

while i would agree that diversity is always a good thing, i just dont think thats how anet envisioned the class.

they made the class so you constantly swap between attunements and spam lots of skills really fast. they then used the weapons to create alternate styles of play. scepter is ranged, dagger is up close, and staff is for big AOE.

from what i understand from the OP you would rather see it made as something similar to dagger=fire, staff=water, scepter=air, ???=earth.

while that style of play could work, the class would need a heavy redesign from the ground up to support such a dramatic change.

I would not recommend the game to anyone.

The reality is the game is visually pleasing, but it is trying to be a pve game while lacking the depth of gameplay that pve mmo games have.

combat is extremely simplistic for a pve game. in a pve game i expect multiple bars of abilities and situational skills. in a pve game i expect there to be roles such as tank, healer, and crowd control. in a pve game i expect frills like mounts and mini-games. in a pve game i expect raids with epic pve battles. in a pve game i expect multiple end game dungeons and raids.

as far as gameplay goes gw2 is not up to par with modern pve mmo games outside of the graphics.

if the game was PVP focused with a balanced end game of large scale pvp battles, like what i was expecting to receive when i purchased the game, i would say its brilliant.

however that is not the direction the developers decided to go.

at the end of the day i feel like i am the victim of a bait and switch scam and i just wasted 60$.

its not much money and its not going to change my world at all, but i could not turn around and recommend this to friends.

I havent looked at these forums for a couple of days, but just coming back and reading the posts since then makes me weep for our race. i just have to pray most of these posters are children so saying they havent been properly educated yet is an acceptable excuse.

either way most of you need to spend some time away from your computer desk and realize this is nothing more than a cheap video game used for entertainment purposes.

you can come up with 100 reasons why this video game actually means something to you, the rest of the world will not care. you will not get a better job because you can grind items in video games. you will not pass credit checks because you are a leet farmer. this does absolutely nothing for you except waste your time.

at this point i dont really care. i am already playing other games. i just cant comprehend how you people are functioning members of society with the view points you have. its no wonder most people automatically assume you are basement dwellers who live off of their parents.

i think many people have some type of disorder where they are having a hard time distinguishing between what is important in the real world and things people just do for fun.

i dont watch a movie seeking some type of advancement in life, all i expect it to do is entertain me. that is what i paid for and that is what i expect. i want an escape from reality for a short time where i can just sit back and relax while enjoying something.

thats what entertainment is for.

a video game is entertainment. its only here to keep you amused when you have time to spare. it is not supposed to be work or consume your life. its supposed to be something fun to do when you are bored.

i do not understand how people can keep comparing that to real life.

real life matters, video games do not. when your life ends you no longer exist, when a game ends you can just go buy another one.

trying to compare life to video games is like trying to compare trees to cars.

cegorach.5624:

So you would have a problem in real life about an option that would allow you to be rewarded without working hard?

I am curious why you think an online game should have easy access to fun while real life shouldn’t.

reading things like this makes me die a little inside.

on one hand you have real life where people go through school, get jobs, live, love, and die.
on the other hand you have a video game that people purchased for entertainment.

…and then you seriously ask why people view them differently?

you cannot go into a store and purchase a new life in a shrink wrapped box for 60$ for starters…

the op is not being very logical with their request anyhow.

ask everyone to leave, then when the game is ghost-town how is it actually better than it was before?

also its been my experience that when the forums get to the point that people have to ask the community to stop arguing and complaining things usually go downhill from there.

anyhow i am personally not on the forums complaining as much anymore. i might check once a day for a few minutes, then i go play something else. i realize that no amount of me complaining is going to change the game in a reasonable amount of time, so i might as well just play something else and move on.

the only reason i even check at all is i really had my hopes up, and i have some small amount of hope that the devs might actually realize that people dont need or want another pve treadmill and attempt to correct their mistake.

I would have to agree. Since the last patch I have lost interest in even logging in.

I did not purchase this game for another pve gear treadmill. I quit playing wow and all the other pve treadmill clones some time ago and have no intention of going back to them.

I bought this game because I was told it was going to be different and that end game would be more pvp focused and it didn’t matter that I had very limited playtime because I would never have to item grind to keep pace.

Now the only benefit the game has is there is no monthly fee, but honestly there are so many F2P item treadmill games available at this point its hardly a benefit. Also I would gladly pay 15$ a month if a game was fun.

At the end of the day I am now left feeling that gw2 was another pointless waste of money. Perhaps it is my fault for thinking an online game would actually be different. I have been playing borderlands2, darksiders2, me3, and similar.

I do not understand why the semantics matter so much. At the end of the day these definitions are all arguable so there is no definitive end to this discussion.

Also when I log in to play the game the genre label does not matter to me. All that matters is if the game is fun and I am having a good time.

I think people are focusing their efforts on the wrong thing here.

Yes it should be.

When i purchased this game i was under the impression that i was getting a pvp based game where stats on my gear was never going to be the focus of play.

if i thought i was purchasing another pve treadmill then i would say no otherwise whats the point, however that is not how this game was sold to me.

You cannot make a game with gear differences where those who have the gear are more powerful, more efficient, and more likely to succeed and then expect players to miraculously not care about what kind of gear people have. That’s just silly.

If you want to argue skill you will get the canned response of ‘obviously the person who has the gear was skilled enough to get it.’ you cant win this arguement. once they make gear difference matter, its going to matter to players.

Avatar.1923:

its a question of keeping most players “in” the game.

that fractal kitten is to keep the “hardcore, elitist, play too much, addict” type players well sucked in a downward spiral that keeps the game on a buzz.

is it healthy? no.
good for long term business? we ll see how sick and masochist people really are.

there are a couple real problems with this philosophy.

1) the hardcore types are going to jump ship as soon as the next new game comes out. its not even a question, they will leave. they left whatever game they were playing when gw2 came out to come here, and they will do it again when the next big thing arrives. Then you will be left with a game made for hardcore players, but no hardcore players to play it.

2) item tread mill games fail the vast majority of the time. WoW is an anomaly. If you take wow off the table and look at the rest of the item treadmill games released since 2004, you will see an astronomical failure rate. That is the reason most gaming companies consider MMO games too big of a risk to invest in.

They really just need to make WvW a pvp area like sPvP so its balanced. The last patch with skills damage being adjusted in PvP just drives the point home that WvW needs to be considered a pvp area.

That would still leave the segregation problem in pve, but thats how it is in pve games. I did not personally buy GW2 for endless end game pve, so I personally wouldnt care much anymore.

I would personally rather see them developing persistent content than making short events. I dislike feeling like I am required to be online for a video game or I will be missing out on something. I would rather have persistent content I can enjoy on my time.

Ebon.7641:

NaughtyProwler.8653:

eisberg.2379:

NaughtyProwler.8653:

I’ve heard this one before and many others like it before…

SWG NGE
AoC release
Warhammer release
SWTOR beta + release

^ all games that are dead or on life support

Go ahead and try to marginalize the voices on your forum. Go ahead and even ignore them. It doesn’t change anything. This game is headed for the same fate as the ones above if they don’t clean up their act very quickly.

Every, Every MMO forums are heavily biased towards the negative. If you go by the forums for WoW, that game should have died by the end of 2004, and again in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008. 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012.

So one game that is a success vs several that are failures and you want me to think this game will be as resilient as WoW? Really?

This game has a FAR better core content and mechanics compared to the failed games.

I would not really agree. There have been so many failed item treadmill mmo games over the passed years since WoW was released its ridiculous. I honestly cannot even begin to remember them all.

People use flawed logic for mmo games consistently. by far and large item treadmill games fail. some go f2p to stay alive so they dont have to shut down altogether and have managed to stick around for a while, but most simply die off.

realistically speaking it would more logical to state: “the item treadmill model fails the vast majority of time. WoW is simply an anomaly”

while guild wars 2 being mostly free after the purchase price will ensure it has more longevity than games with monthly fees or required item shop purchases, it is my belief they could have been truly great if they made a unique pvp mmo game. now they will just be wow-clone #987684356089.

The pro item treadmill crowd generally follows a really predictable pattern though.

They come into a game, burn through the content and hit max level as fast as possible, then complain the game is not hardcore enough for them and are very vocal on the forums because they have nothing else to do. The developers get the false impression that they need to cater to these types because they are the majority of posts on the forums (everyone else is actually playing) and then scramble to make the game hardcore for those players.

2 months later a new game is released and the hardcore types move on to the new bigger and better game, and all thats left is the core customers who now hate the game because its designed for hardcore folks.

in 6 months its dying, in a year its dead.

on the new games forum you see “we need more hardcore endgame content. its what mmo games are about. get with the program”

rinse/repeat

DegoLocc.5976:

My point is, I fail to see why ppl get upset about a game being what it is supposed to be, an MMO. You obviously said it yourself, you like the “idea” of MMO’s, but to me it seems like you are more into RPG’s.

to me this post just highlights what is wrong with the genre at this point.

so many people think the only way to make a mmo game is the one model of endless treadmill item grinds for end game. it is not just this one person, you see these same posts every single day. someone is constantly saying “mmo games are all about being a no-lifer who can farm their life away, its obviously not for you.”

the thing that always confuses me about this philosophy though is that since the release of WoW we have seen a flood of these item grind pve games released and the majority of them are in bad shape in under 6 months and dead within a year.

I have seen so many come and go i cannot even remember them all. i honestly cannot.

how is it when the vast majority of mmo games that decide to follow this item treadmill model fail that we still see people saying “its the only way” every single day?

where is the logic in it? It would seem this model is actually very, very bad.

RhysSebastian.7651:

I find it surprising so many people are opposed to having more stuff to do in a game though lol. I think i get the picture tho.

people are not so upset about having more to do as you are assuming.

the complaint is more coming from the WvW crowd who see this is a mandatory pve requirement for them to stay up with everyone else.

GW2 was advertised and sold as a pvp game without a gear grind that people who have lives away from their computer could enjoy. Then they throw in a hampster wheel dungeon you are forced to participate in to stay at the top rung of stats in WvW.

It seems to me the most obvious solution is to unhook WvW from pve and treat it as another branch of sPvP instead.

That would still leave the problems of segregation of the player base causing older dungeons and content to become stagnant and unplayable, but those are the problems every pve progression game faces.

At least then pve would not be affecting any facet of pvp.

it would also correct the issues with the last patch reducing certain skills damage in pvp, but then not considering WvW as pvp so these skills are allowed to remain overpowered there.

One of the main things to me when choosing a race is the in-game voice when you are in combat and perform actions. You are going to hear those quotes over and over for the life of your character so they better be agreeable to you.

I would personally make the races and play them up a couple levels, see how they look and sound when you are actually playing them in the world, and then make your decision.

If you make a choice and then hate the combat quote voice or whatever else, you will probably never really like playing that character.

for me personally it does not matter how interesting the sylvari are or anything else, i cant stand the guys voice. i will never play a sylvari because of it.

I think the combat is good for a pvp game. It should be kept somewhat simple so a level of balance can be maintained. I also dislike complicated combat in the chaos that is pvp, because there is usually so much more to keep track of.

For pve however I do think its a bit too simplistic. NPC enemies are generally much less interesting to fight than players so more in-depth combat is needed to keep it entertaining.

I suppose A-net is going to have to make a decision on what section of the game is actually the future they want to plan for first. It was advertised as more of a pvp game, but the recent update would suggest that they have decided to change to a pve progression game.

As has been stated there are going to be good and bad people in every community and you are going to have to sift through some bad apples to get the good ones. no game has the perfect magic community.

I would be wary of reviews for this games community though as this games forum is one of the most heavily moderated forums I have ever seen in my life.