Guild Wars 2

No, with the clarification made, I’d agree with him. Running HGH p/p or hammer meta makes more sense in that setting. I’ve heard plenty of times assertions that are similar, but not always scoped just to high level (truly competitive) play; I mistakenly understood this to be a similar case. I’ll keep to my Ruby/Diamond tier, where this kind of build is fine – it’s just more fun to me, and that’s the only reason I play this game.

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

It’s a fun build for sure, but any engi/scrapper build without Alchemy+Inventions will die to competent players. Lacks consistent Condition Removal, but yeah I only see this working against people who don’t how to fight it or take free cleave.

Have to disagree with you there. I’d probably buy that all builds need EITHER inventions or alchemy, but to say they need both is absolutely purely a failure of the imagination and/or player skill. Yes, the meta hammer scrapper is really strong and takes very little skill to play competently. But it isn’t the only “viable” build. The subject build is absolutely weak to conditions, I concede that (and have actually since changed to heal turret, leadership runes, and paladin amulet in part to address that). But to say that one specific weakness (conditions) in exchange for some specific strengths (aoe damage and CC) makes a build “not work” seems misguided to me. I would interpret that simply as being balanced, requiring some negative trade in order to gain something else that’s strong.
PS: didn’t mean for this to come off as brusque as it does. I just mean to state a difference of opinion

It’s currently in its own thread as well, but this is my most current rifle/bombs builds. It does good damage and has decent staying power, but mainly excels at cc-locking.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUnUUB9ZhtoCGpC0ehl0iK8F7oaje6b+o/bDDgQE-TJBJABAcBA6e/h3LD01DAAA

Pierro. I’ll try explosives. I’d been thinking about it, since the rifle CD has been the main reason to take it, but I almost think it would be better to have the oc shot cd line up with blast gyro. I’ve switched to heal turret for extra condi remove, and getting the kb for that from explosives could be handy. Also the mortar upgrade as you mentioned.
I’ve also moved to paladins amulet, which I’ve found makes a huge difference. That extra bit of toughness makes all the healing this build can do go a lot further, giving a bigger point presence (the main objective of the build).

Pierro. I’ll try explosives. I’d been thinking about it, since the rifle CD has been the nation reason to take it, but I almost think it would be better to have the oc shot cd line up with blast gyro. I’ve switched to heal turret for extra condi remove, and getting the kb for that from explosives could be handy. Also the mortar upgrade add you mentioned.
I’ve also moved to paladins amulet, which I’ve found makes a huge difference. That extra bit of toughness makes all the healing this build can do go a lot further, this being a bigger point presence (the main objective of the build).

Glad you liked it! And also that you were able to confirm my experience that, particularly warriors (one of the biggest condi forces out there these days), seem to be easily countered despite the build lacking strong condition removal.

Yes, of course. I guess, just like all build posts ever in this forum, my intent was to spread an idea. I am sharing a formula that has proven massively successful in my experience, with the intent that others may take it, change it to best suit their own preferences and playstyle, and enjoy success with the engineer profession in this game.
Maybe someone else wants to use elixir C or purge gyro. Heck even swapping elixirs traits in for firearms and using something like elixir B in the last slot might float your boat. Do it! This is just a starting point that I know works for me, and diverges nicely from the boring hammer same old that’s dominated for the past year.

As I mentioned, I recognize condis to be a weakness here. However, also as mentioned, it’s cc lockdown and damage burst was always enough for me so that it isn’t an issue. I fought a team of three Necros, a guard, and Mesmer, and still wrecked them every time, both 1v1 and team fights. Warrior is actually the biggest joke of them all, because they need to stay on top of you for dps, which they simply can’t do through bombs. Basically use rifle to do good damage at range, then if they reflect or try to melee you, use bombs and charge or kite, respectively (depending on if they are reflecting or melee-ing). Watch for any time they don’t have stability and use blast gyro, overcharge shot with the blast gyro stability so that they are first hit with overcharge, then blast gyro goes over and knocks them back again. This does massive damage as well, on low cd. Get a blunderbuss in there too for more big dps, and often I can also net shot so that when they stunbreak (giggle as they try), they are still stuck and I jump shot on their face.
Yes, if guard drops all their traps on point you need to give them a couple seconds space… but only a couple seconds, then you knock them off point and blast their face in! Also BoB pretty much off cool down to force them off the point again (all flights, not just guards).
Hoelbrak rune, generosity, and inventions (healing + tiny condi clear) does, empirically, provide enough cleanse. Just have to play aggressively and not give enemies a chance to set up their own bursts.

Control your foe like the rag doll they are!
The build is here:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUncoC9ZhtoCGpC0ehF2iiO4P+lPMFvoXDcE3gAA-TJBJABAcBA66BAIdZgO2fAA

Now cackle maniacally while chain cc-ing them and dishing out massive, delicious, aoe damage.
One optional swap is using purge gyro over bulwark when you are worried about condo pressure. Although I didn’t find it necessary, because with all the cc (don’t forget the soft stuff either, like smoke bomb) nothing sticks hard enough to be an issue. Hoelbrak runes and generosity sigil do a good job.

Did you use the overcharged version? I know there are some interesting mechanics with that trait that can do something like this. I’ve never been sufficiently instead to look into it more, but that could be what you’re seeing.

The one that really blew me away was nerf to shield. Shield!? Really!!? No one used shield before this patch, why in the name of all that is good would they nerf this hands down least used weapon, probably across all classes in all game modes. Sure it doesn’t make a difference to how we play (as Chaith pointed out, there was essentially no impact to the meta build aside from killing medic gyro as a viable variant), but I found that shield nerf just plain insulting.

Edit: jk, I was thinking shock shield throw skill, not hammer 4 static shield.

shion.2084:

…
Pretty much exactly my thoughts. 2 metas, a healer, a CCer, and a condi doer. What would a heavy CC build look like, do you have your build link? I was thinking that even something like throw mine with the ability to remove a boon would be fun for the CC build. But I don’t think the remove boon would be enough to make a difference. I like the idea though of someone who can continuously strip boons.

http://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/engineer/A-bomb-build-that-actually-works/first#post6188691

Here is the thread with my decap build. You could use a sigil of nullification for the boon strip over sigil of air, since you don’t need the extra damage in an organized team with dedicated damage dealers.

If you get an engineer team together, I’ll run any of the mentioned roles…

I guess I’m not sure why you like elixir H so much? I’d say heal gyro in the first, turret with the second build. Seems to me like you would want one pretty much meta build for bunker – maybe even two of those. Then have 1-2 decap engineer(s) with disgusting cc (I made a rifle/bombs/gyro build a little while back that would be perfect). Then a dps roamer – so zerker nades scrapper. Then a wildcard, maybe condi dps to “diversify yo bonds, kitten” in the words of Wu Tang Financial . Condi could also cover a bit of a healing role probably, just in terms of available stat combos.

That’s how it’s set up, at least.

PierPiero.9142:

which build do you use ? I use marauder scrapper with medic gyro , elixir C , eg ,bulk gyro and snake gyro , hoelbrack runes , the meta or similar and usually it is hard but not impossible to figth them. I suggest you 2 things that people quite often don’t do :
remember that Elixir gun is a weapon, so use it when you are not melee, don’t camp in hammer all the time. Remember that Elixir Gun 5 + Hammer 2 remove 2 condi, toss elixir C remove 1 condi every 16 seconds . Necro usually have not great reheal possibility so you can go in stealth , reheal and come back and they will not have the health bar full again . The only real important thing, imho, as against warrior, is to get used to EG for condition cleaning in addition to elixir C. Also remember , from melee that eg 2 gives you speed ( so health ) . For me the key to beat condi burst with scrapper is the right use of elixir Gun. I have more problems with condi warriors becouse they force you to melee only fight. In any case they are possible matchup , not easy but not impossible . Eg + hammer 3 gives you frost aura, so , when i see necro with marks, i usually put under it eg 5 at start and then i lauch my self with hammer 3 and hammer 2 on it, so that i get frost aura at start and i remove fast the conditions from mark if i go on it. It is not perfect but it helps a lot imho .

Egun 5 is a light field, giving light aura, not frost aura. Also, unfortunately, whirl finisher in light field sends out “cleansing bolts” which heal conditions on nearby allies, but not yourself. I’m not saying you’re tactics don’t work, but if they do then it isn’t for the reasons you think.

Voramoz.6790:

I want our next elite to be built around portals.
Inspired by the game portal.
With an aimable portable.

It would be awesome. You could troll people by having a portal that drops them to their doom Muahaha! But seriously. Engi could do portals cool, breakup the Mesmer monopoly, AND even do portals in a way where Mesmer Portal still feels cool. (I don’t hate Mesmer. Mesmer is my second oldest proffession after Engi).

So blue portals (focus 4) port allies who interact with it, orange portals (focus 5) port (and damage? Slow? Confuse? Daze?) Enemies in a small aoe (80-140 radius). Both are chain skills, so you have to drop the destination first (this drops at current location to circumvent potential exploits), then gain access to chain skill, which is a ranged aoe (maybe 600-900 range?).
Blue portals are active for maybe 3 seconds (more traited?) And can be used any number of times. Orange portals collapse immediately after the second one impacts, so it hits, aoe teleport foes, then collapse with aoe effect going off at one or both of the exit and entrance portals.
This elite spec would definitely lend itself to getting “traps” as a new utility type…

I suggested this in my topic on a reporter elite skill. Have a clockwork-themed engineer with focus mainhand. Really it’s more for weird factor than anything practical, though. Use it as an energy or space-time focus our something.

Although RE: OP’s mechanic, I gotta go with Kodama on this. It would be a straight up huge setback with no percieveable benefit (besides using slightly less buttons I guess?). Of you want to go anything like that route, I’d say do something more like change one or more of the focus skills to have some different effect based on the last kit you used (with a 5-second expiration or something so it’ll rest of you don’t use a kit for a little while)

Interesting. I guess the toolbelt recharge, especially for flamethrower is probably pretty nice. Just make sure you never get hit by any condi since you have literally zero cleanse

Eragon.8234:

Ok yeah trying things out, rocket boots I will probably go with. No condi trait. Always gonna use Juggernaut. I can definitely see inventions 232. Why perfectly weighted(hammer trait) though? Does it work while using FT? I was told that it doesn’t.

The stability on evade part of the trait works no matter what you are using.

Eragon.8234:

I use this build for pve. I chose the traits specifically, juggernaut gives me about 6 stks of might, with stability. That with the Scrapper trait: Mass Momentum gives me around 12/13 stks of might. Those with the Alchemy traits: HGH and Alchemical Tinctures, also with Runes of strength give 17/18 stacks of might. Using Elixir U wither gives me the fury, or the 5 stks of might, also with 2 extra stks from HGH, caps my 25 might.
The hammer I don’t really use or need, except maybe for the stun from hammer 5.
Firearms traits for minor and major are just what I had on, I can see why Heavy Armor Exploit might be better, and also No Scope.
I don’t really need condi damage, so using runes of the flame legion would not be bad, but aren’t what I need. I just had the Pinpoint distribution for that tad extra damage.
Shredder Gyro is just what ive been using on top of Napalm(FT skill 4), even without Pinpoint Distribution it does decent damage.
Yes, the quickness is only really good for the FT skill 1, or hammer 1, but it doubles the damage I do, just by making the skill go faster.
Tool belt skill Throw Elixir U is highly valuable by either reflects or blinds.
Shredder gyro can be replaced, plz post any suggestions.

Ah well if you’re using juggernaut you should probably update your OP, because you currently say you use firearms grandmaster “middle” but juggernaut would be “top” (middle is the garbage 2% damage bonus per condition on enemy). And that would kind of change the entire discussion dynamic… juggernaut is very much a playstyle-defining trait. I’m this case I’d also encourage you to consider the alchemy adept tier “top” trait that gives vigor when you gain swiftness. It synergies really well with the firearms adept “middle” which gives swiftness when you crit

shion.2084:

Plus I’m not sure shredder is all that viable… maybe in a pvp situation where they stand exactly where you want and you can put it in their hit box???? but I suspect that takin gsomething like rocket boots for the like 5 stacks of burn on the tool belt might suit you better , or blast gyro for much damageness.

Yup. Hence this current forum topic:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Shredder-Gyro-2

It should get an aoe pull on first whirl or something. Chaith it’s 100% correct, and that tree is not even a little bit worth barking up any more (why Mesmer illusions are exempt from this BS I will never understand…). You’re better off asking for some added affect that doesn’t go against a stated game design concept. Hence my desire for a pull.

I’m not sure you will be able to apply enough condi variety to get much out of firearms grandmaster 2 trait. I’d go for incindiary powder (burning on crit + extended burning duration) instead. Do the numbers; I bet you’ll get more damage out of the extra burn than you will out of a couple percent bonus per condition.

Maybe for the next elite spec… the Clockworker. Totally a steal on chronomancer, but w/e. Just kind of a steampunk version of time control/teleport skills. Specialized in mobility and maybe burst damage? Get main-hand focus, just to be weird? I digress.

ellesee.8297:

I’ve been suggesting this for a while. It’s my dream skill.

Experimental Matter Relocator or whatever high tech name befitting the Engineer. Elite Gadget

Press your elite hotkey to place a teleportation pad at your location.
Press your elite hotkey again to dematerialize at your location and rematerialize at the warp pad.

• Breaks stun
• 1 second channel. Grants 1 Stability
• On successful rematerialization, teleportation pad detonates and stuns up to 5 targets for 2 sec in a 240 radius.
• TP pad can be destroyed. On death, pad stuns up to 5 targets for 2 sec in a 240 radius.
• 60 sec cooldown
• If Gadgeteer is active, removes channel time. Cooldown reduced to 45 seconds.

Toolbelt: Failed Experiment
It took many tries to perfect the EMR. Throw one of these failed teleportation pads to slow an area.

• 240 radius
• 4 pulses. Each pulse slows up to 5 targets for 1 second.
• 25 sec CD

I like this. Well thought-out. Having access to some slow from the toolbet would be nice. My only thing is that I’d really want to be able to share it (again, for some group utility). Maybe extend the channel a bit (2 or even 3 sec?) and allow allies to join you by pressing interact hotkey on you. Then instead of removing channel time, have gadgeteer grant evade during the channel (in addition to the standard 25% CD reduction)….
I love your idea as is from a PvP perspective, I’d just really like for Mesmer to not be the only option when it comes to group teleporting in, for example, a jumping puzzle (with chrono, Mesmer is already the only way to get alacrity, let’s share a little here :P engineer is no longer the only one with super speed…)

lolobum.3082:

Use projectile based tool belt skills like tool kit’s and rifle turret’s. Ram works well too.

Yeah this is the way to go. Unfortunately static discharge rules out the option of picking up the really strong toolkit trait in exchange for some pretty mediocre damage (~500? Really?). This trait used to hit hard, but now I almost don’t notice it. Also, taking rifle turret for its toolbelt is difficult because you’ve basically given up a utility slot. I guess you get the blast finisher, but it’s kind okittenward to use just for that, and if you leave it out long enough to do anything else you’re not getting anything out of static discharge (not that you get that much anyway…). SD is just plain bad right now, imo.

This is how confusion used to work…

I actually hadn’t noticed that you aren’t using juggernaut (I use my phone, and when I go to the trait tab it has a little popup that kind of covers the top GM selection). Saw all the other traits and flamethrower and figured it was another “spam FT auto” juggernaut build. This is more interesting… I’ll have to try it to be fair here. Firearms master 1 is an interesting choice… I see Chaith’s point, but on the other hand you already have quite high crit chance, you don’t take bunker down, don’t have ferocity, and you do have some toughness so it doesn’t seem unbelievable to me that you might get more out of the extra condi damage. Have you tried with knights amulet? It might be a good potential alternative with the additional toughness. A trade-off, of course, but probably at least worth trying (if you stick with firearms master 1). Although going that far, it almost isn’t right to call it a power build anymore (even though that is the main damage, it definitely looks heavily augmented by conditions).

Add-on: more specifically, I’m not totally convinced the healing power from sage amulet would really be put to use without inventions or rapid recovery. Also curious if you’ve run the build using alchemy adept 1 instead of 2? Kind of a tossup there between perma vigor (synergy with firearms adept 2) or protection on cc.

Gotta agree with insanemaniac here. It’s unfortunate, but the truth. I’ve played engi for years, done every build imaginable, even back when p/s was the standard pvp loadout (I know, hard to believe it was ever a thing… but it was). The truth is that as fun as any build might be, what is decidedly not fun is losing every encounter and match you play. And that’s just how extreme the current metagame has become (maybe not quite literally, but frighteningly close).

guildabd.6529:

All I want is more burning to flamethrower.
And a lot more unblockables.

Please, god, not more unblockable. I almost want this feature removed from the game. It’s kind of stupid to have skills that block, but then everyone and their dog has some attack that is unblockable anyway. It kind of defeats the purpose of having blocks…
As for OP, I think you make some good points in there. The turret trait in explosives makes no sense, totally agree. I think the list is not really comprehensive – I’ve seen quite a few other good ideas on parts recently. Also if all those buffs were included I do think it would be a bit OP, so we may need to be more selective there. Static discharge absolutely needs help (it’s damage is pathetic), and I also agree that it needs to not compete with the toolkit trait, since the toolkit is the only kit that really synergizes with the trait… not sure what Anet was thinking on that one. I almost feel like what we need most is something that would enable projectiles to be conditionally “unreflectable,” like the analog to unblockable. Per my statement above, in the big picture I think this would also be kind of dumb, but unless there are some serious CD increases on every projectile hate skill in this game, I don’t really see any other way we’re realistically going to get away from the rigid, pretty much mandatory, hammer bunker meta. Projectiles are just such an unavoidable element of any other engi build.

Edit: also yes, agree with ellesee, we desperately need to get condi clear options that aren’t elixirs. That is a ridiculous limitation that would be so easy to fix and is currently absolutely destroying any hope at build diversity. In terms of the condi engi discussion, I don’t think it’s quite as bad as you say. I’ve had some luck with it. Just needs shorter CD on IA and less projectile hate. Although it’s true that all the condi clears on some classes are a bit much (I’ve noticed especially eles and warriors don’t seem to have to sacrifice any dps to still have essentially zero-effort required to remain 100% condi-proof). Also necros, but honestly I don’t mind that since its kind of their whole thing.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Goosekilla.2796:

I’ll post opinion, but just want to say your title is a bit misleading in that your real question is whether or not take down round should break stealth and/or whether or not box of nails should proc take down round, the answer to both of which is definitely. If you’re taking a semi-random damage dealing trait in a build that relies on stealth enough for this to be an issue, I’d say that’s a fundamental build problem, not an issue with the trait or skill.

I simply dont understand why a non-direct damaging skill can proc a direct damaging trait. Sigil of air doesnt do that, and other classes that have similar pulsing condi fields+traits dont do that. Its inconsistent mechanics.

I don’t think it is inconsistent. Sigil of air procs on critical hits, which obviously cannot happen on an attack that does not deal direct damage. I think if you try with, for example, sigil of ice (inflict chill on a hit, non-critical), you’ll find that it does proc. But that wouldn’t reveal either because it’s still just more condi application. It’s not inconsistent mechanics, it’s just that there are extremely few other truly analogous situations.

Stand The Wall.6987:

snaplemouton.1294:

I’d argue it’s the other specializations that suck so bad it make Alchemy the only viable one, but that would be beside the point.

It wouldn’t be too much if they reduced the duration on the Elixir S granted by Self-Regulating Defenses.

we’re in a sad state of meta where anything not overpowered is considered bad. engi does not need more passives, especially in the alchemy traitline.

You make a good point, although the implied statement here that elixirs trait line is OP I think I’d off base. It’s required right now because it’s the only way engineer has to fight condis. Otherwise it’s a pretty balanced line.

One word: retaliation.

The V.8759:

Here is a suggestion for basicly every Scrapper out in Pvp:

drop Elixir S trait and take inversion enzyme!!

In time fights it lets you support your team so much. If there an enemy reaper —> chill --> turn in resistance

It’s too bad you can’t use fumigate on self. It’s kind of stupid, because for example ele water dagger 2 can heal self if you run forward into it. Actually medkit could really use this functionality fix as well. It’s an inconsistent game mechanic. Although as I and someone else already noted, buffs to alchemy/elixir condi removal in general wouldn’t be good for build diversity. Add resistance to some gadgets (utility goggles?)

shion.2084:

Thanks Guys! So adaptive armour it is then! the 20% condi damage reduction is nice for surviveability.

Incidentally… when you have adaptive armour and your toughness increases, so two would things that gain a % based on toughness (eg. undead runes or your power due to the bottom master trait of scrapper)?

Finally, since your all being very helpful, if you use sigil of leeching and you swap weapons, it says “your next attack steals health”. What if that attack doesn’t hit anything? What if it is blocked? I guess this question also applies to the FT tool belt skill, which I know holds untill you hit something, but I’m not sure if its wasted on an evaded attack or block.

I was looking into this the other day, and I concluded that I’m pretty sure it’s actually "your next three (or whatever) attacks that hit an opponent. However, if the attack is blocked or against something invulnerable it will burn the proc without having any effect.

Check out this thread from last week. It’s kind of hilarious to see this thread now, and I think it highlights the exact point made in the linked thread that for PvE they’re both fine (PvP power is probably better right now, but it doesn’t matter because there’s zero sunk cost to changing builds in PvP).
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Condi-engi-not-worth-it/

What game mode? Looks like a nice lazy build for PvE or WvW. Would probably get decent payback for the effort in unranked, even. Don’t take this into ranked.

Also to answer your other question, defensive moves like hammer 2 and 4 are not affected by quickness as of something like 6 months ago. Still use them if you need to for defense, I guess, but their function is completely unchanged by quickness so, as Chaith said, your best bet is for things like auto attacks. Flamethrower auto is probably the most notably affected, but there isn’t a lot of reason to use it, and if the opponent has retaliation boon you’ll get wrecked extra fast using FT auto with quickness.

No this isn’t a bug. See my reply on the engi forum related thread. If you take a damage-dealing trait in a build that relies on stealth enough for this to be a problem, that’s an issue with the build and not the trait or the skill. I guess it wouldn’t hurt anything to make box o nails not count as a strike (for any purpose), but I think for balance it really is fair that it does. Just plan ahead and drop BoN before you stealth…

I’ll post opinion, but just want to say your title is a bit misleading in that your real question is whether or not take down round should break stealth and/or whether or not box of nails should proc take down round, the answer to both of which is definitely. If you’re taking a semi-random damage dealing trait in a build that relies on stealth enough for this to be an issue, I’d say that’s a fundamental build problem, not an issue with the trait or skill.

Chaith.8256:

…Let’s just say, from a wet noodle fight to a staring contest. Except your HoT equipped enemies get a machine gun and baseball bat, respectively.

True, especially the second sentence. I guess my thinking was that it would just raise the ceiling so that if core specs were then brought up to par it would be a sword fight (from staring contest with optional baseball bats), whereas right now if that were done it would be a nuclear missile standoff (from wet noodle fight with optional machine guns) – put up your, admittedly potent, defenses, but when they’re down all kitten breaks loose. But then we’re back to asking for something way too large for one patch (i.e. buff all core specs to post-HoT levels)… in fact that’s a bigger request than nerfing all elite specs, so I guess we end up backwards there.
So final takeaway here is that yeah, I probably agree most with your original point that really if the core specs were just polished up into some real options the game would be in an achievable, good place. There is strong offense, but also strong defense. It’s very active, and that’s a good thing.

Alchemy is overused, but I think OP still makes a great point. In the old days, before condition stacking, this trait didn’t so much have this problem. They introduced the resistance boon for that exact reason, and I don’t think it’s really a bad idea. Alchemy is over-used not as much because it is completely OP, but because alternatives like tools, firearms, and explosives are situational at best. Really it’s those trait lines that need to be reworked to make them more attractive. Adding resistance, even just a bit, I think might be a good thing. As OP says, this trait as is often spells death versus condi opponents with damaging conditions stacking the way they do.

Edit: I think it’s also worth pointing out that the only access engineer/scrapper has to resistance right now is the medkit, which is pretty much a joke. So giving a little more access would be good. Then again, alchemy is currently the only real source of condi removal, so I guess it would really be best to put resistance access in another trait line…

Chaith.8256:

An Engi/Scrapper building for even a balanced damage build, the results are always crap. Need better results when building for something other than full tank utilities and traitlines. Rifle, Pistols, Kits, Explosives, Firearms, Tools, these are the things that need to be improved in ways other than raw (PvE affecting) damage.

Defensive utility, offensive utility, increased speed, accuracy/precision.

Just one of many (all?) professions that have really bad build diversity. Pretty much all the professions need to be polished a bit so there’s meaningful build choices instead of just 9 standard heroes.

Edit: I agree that the general power level of each profession should be brought down to core level. There’s just one problem with that:

Unless you nerf all 9 professions at the exact same time, (too big a patch) you are having huge balance issues. That’s why I think ArenaNet’s hand is forced into laying in the bed they’ve made when it comes to the general power level of the game.

If the game is going to be polished further so it has a functional trait/utility system, I’m almost sure it’ll involve re-working obsolete core game traits/mechanics.

This is just an idea, but one easy way to nerf all the huge dps would be to just increase all class’s baseline vitality and toughness. That wouldn’t take a huge patch, and would give room to buff and polish all the existing unused traits/mechanics. I definitely agree that fixing up the things are what I’d really like to see Anet work on over adding more new, still unbalanced (or at least unpolished) game elements.
Probably my favorite thing to do in this game (my personal meta-game) is making new builds, so it’s really sad to almost always find that even the best alternatives I come up with are somewhat sub-par.

Shaogin.2679:

Or just nerf hammer. Not sure I want all core specs and weapons brought up to HoT level. Would rather HoT be toned down to core level.

This; in conjunction with the points made by ellesee and chaith regarding the fact that for the most part it is other scrapper skills (both enemy scrappers with projectile hate, stab, and protection, and yourself by the fact that hammer is an option) that are making rifle not cut it now. Also kind of the same story told by OP (even if not intended) that all the ranged autos are pretty balanced except for DH longbow, which is decidedly powercreeped. Anet just really overdid elite specs. I could be wrong here, but I’m pretty sure that aside from scrapper, tempest also turns out a rediculous level of projectile hate, and berserker has stability that was unheard of pre-HoT (except juggernaut trait on paper, which is balanced by the fact that paper is not reality). And revenant… well let’s not start on that.

Ranael.6423:

As for big Ol’ Bomb itself, its AOE damage and knockback are what makes it already strong. On top of it with kinetic battery, it is a real good boost in defiance bar breaking if you time it well.

I have a minor issue with the quoted part of what you said; everything else I think are fair points. I’m kind of straying from the thread topic here, but the problem is that this trait isn’t just about personal timing. The trait will go off whenever you dodge, and whether you use it or not after 8 seconds it will go on its 40 sec cd. I can’t just not dodge until I need the free tool belt skill, but I also really need to get this buff when I want it, not semi-randomly every 40 secs when I have to dodge something. I know this point has been made before, but this trait really needs to be adjusted to give an untimed buff and just not start the icd until after the buff is used. I really don’t think that’s asking too much.
Sorry for the thread hijack.

So I know there may be other things that take priority over this, but it’s still fun to dream. Currently, the only class with a group teleport mechanic is mesmer. I’ve been kind of frustrated by this multiple times, because I really like my engi and now with sneak gyro we can do almost anything. But when it comes to group porting, for example in jumping puzzle, the only option is Mesmer.
We don’t currently have any elite gadget skill, so I’d really love to see a teleporter introduced here. To be consistent with our Jack of all trades / master of none theme, it should be weaker than the Mesmer one; maybe limit it to 5 players? Have the endpoints be destructible? Anyway, I thought this would be a fun idea to put out there and see what types of options people come up with for such a skill. Discuss!

insanemaniac.2456:

Rezzet.3614:

insanemaniac.2456:

op: dont forget to include total cast times with your numbers. listing out the scaling coefficients (and cds) is misleading.

honestly the only attacks wich could be justified by cast times are Eles
there rest mayb have channeled atacks but those do not take more than 2 seconds

for the autos, eles and revs are justified by long cast times. ranger and mes are conditional. warrior lb has slow projectile speed and doesnt home.

the real takeaway is that the necro auto is severely underpowered with its long cast time and low coefficient, and dh lb is power creeped. not that engi rifle needs a buff.

hence, excluding cast times is misleading.

Agree with all this except necro staff being UP. I’d say this is balanced by the fact that the remaining skills on Necro staff are spammable 1200 range aoe like nothing available to any other profession in the game, and (probably an even better argument) the fact that in addition to damage this skill grants life force.

Sorel.4870:

One thing that could go a long way to buff the kit in general would be to have the bomb trait made baseline (the “explode faster” part at least), and make it apply also to BoB: 2s build-up and it explodes.

Oh, and please, PLEASE change the visuals Anet.

You mean you don’t like dropping explosive rice cookers around all over the place?
Also, yeah that’s a pretty good idea. Explosives trait line on the whole needs a rework anyway.

Yeah but the bomb kit as is isn’t used at all in PvP, and BoB isn’t any good for PvE; I think that means there is a bit of room to buff the kit – especially for its PvP applications – without putting it to the point that it is OP. That said, I agree that doubling the damage would be bad. With even Marauder gear it already can crit for about 4k, so if that were doubled it would basically become a 1-hit kill. I don’t think any skill, regardless of how telegraphed and avoidable it is, should hit that hard. For me the bigger issue is that it never actually lands. Three second for a move that has a really obvious telegraph is just too much. Also, the fact that it is a launch can’t really be used to much effect for this exact reason. CC is only really powerful when you can use it productively to interrupt something (stomp, rez, burst, etc). It’s still good, but I feel like something closer to two seconds would probably be more balanced in the game as it stands today. It’s a fast-paced combat system that has only gotten faster over time. When I use a skill, I don’t need it to do something three seconds from now. I need it to happen right now (or as close to that as possible while allowing some room for counter-play).

Rezzet.3614:

just in case no one realize how much of a joke turrets are :

Thumper Turret: 11950 50s cd
Flame Turret: 8960 25s cd
Rifle Turret: 7470 20s cd
Net Turret: 7470 30s cd
Rocket Turret: 7470 50s cd
Healing Turret: 5980 20s cd
Elite 120s cd , turrets have access to a 30% damage reduction and 4s one time reflect on spawn , sounds nice until you realize that 2000 armor almost doubles this damage reduction

Bone Fiend 2600 armor 7000hp 24s cd
Bone Minion 2125 armor 5000hp 20s cd
Blood Fiend 2000 armor 13000hp 16s cd
Shadow Fiend 2125 armor 10700hp 24s cd
Flesh Wurm 2470 armor 9000hp 32s cd
Flesh Golem 2600 armor 13000hp 48s cd
Jagged Horror 2125 armor 8700hp passive spawn on kills, all are mobile, can gain 50% hp from trait as well as 25% damage and each can take conditions away and give to enemy instead and can even siphon hp

Perspective, yo. Ty for bringing the math.

Actually I’m going to add to this a few more things that occurred to me.
Further supporting the idea of somehow putting the overcharge effect into the basic attack (freeing up the chain skill for detonate so that the toolbelt is no longer blocked), I don’t think I have heard of anyone using turrets and not immediately overcharging. There’s further problems here, since some (ex. flame turret) have longer CD on the overcharge than on the placement skill. This pretty much ruins what is currently the only effective use of turrets (i.e. drop, overcharge, pick up for short CD or blast for… a blast).
Another, kind of independent issue is the inventions trait line. First, I have an issue with explosive turrets being in explosives when zero other turret traits are. Explosives isn’t exactly a general purpose trait line either, so putting this trait (which is nearly essential for turrets to be of use) in this trait line which otherwise doesn’t fit turrets at all is bad. Second, the master tier traits of inventions force a decision for turret builds that really isn’t fair to this already UP utility skill type: you can take the trait obviously meant for turrets (get some weak kitten boon application on turret placement) or the trait that is useful exclusively in turret builds (soothing detonation; I don’t know any other build with enough blast finished to make this worth it). I think the boons on turret placement really needs to be adept tier, since it’s so weak anyway, and make one of the current adept tier traits (any of them) master tier (maybe with a slight buff; maybe, although the importance of traits at higher tiers being stronger is pretty much gone now that partial trait lines aren’t a thing, so not really any reason to buff just because it’s now master tier).