Guild Wars 2

Saiyan.1704:

Grimheart.2853:

That is just plain and simple wrong on numerous levels.

Before you show me what [you are] asking for, you could read the next half of my post.

And no, it’s not their opinion, it’s basically a fact. Again, refer to the second half of my post that you seemingly disregarded.

Grimheart.2853:

People from PvP and WvW were babbling that they need their stat-swap without having to go raiding. A-Net made a grumpy sound, added a legy upgrade to respevtive armor sets and mentally asked people to kitten off with that request. Your legendary PvP/WvW armor has no prestige and swag behind it because it was never intended to in the first place. Period.

I read it (past tense). Now read my post where I submitted the picture link. Now click on that link.

Let me take a step further and post a quote from GW2,

“There are no plans to release another set in the future. Legendary armor was introduced to PvP and WvW with the Aug 8th, 2017 balance patch. Since this is an upgrade, the stat-swappable armor does not include a new unique skin but is instead the same skin as the ascended piece that was upgraded.

So yes, I understand what you’re saying and I understand Anet’s grounds on the armor. It is Legendary armor and I am not asking for a new skin here. Just because the armor is an Upgraded version, does not make it the same exact armor. That’s what you need to understand.

Asking for some form of acknowledgement that we have the armor, isn’t going against Anet’s words at all. Not asking for another set. Not asking for skins.

Aside from that gentleman’s/lady’s quote calling you out on your own inconsistency, I’ll say this:

I read your post. I clicked the link. Now refer to my post I refered to earlier, read it thoroughly and try to actually process the information given to you.

Okay, fine, I’ll do it for you.

Your legendary PvP armor has no prestige behind it, nor was it ever intended to. People wanted a purple frame around their armor and an ability to swap their stats for free, people in PvP and WvW modes, people that did not want to obtain it through raids. Devs adressed that exact request with the legendary upgrade for PvP.

Here, I’m in a good mood, I’ll leave you a relatively simple TL;DR: your legendary pvp set was never supposed to be prestigrful and was never supposed to be something you can show off. Period.

Saiyan.1704:

Grimheart.2853:

Devs made it clear they’re not doing another pack of legendary armor skins any time soon. And any time soon in this case means probably never.

That’s not exactly what we’re asking for.

See the below picture link. Each yellow circle around our division represent a PvP Legendary Piece that we have made (not necessarily something we need to wear for this to show). Five armor pieces and The Ascension. Very minimal, simplistic, and it gets straight to the point. This is something i’m fine with.

https://ibb.co/jyx2KF
(title error but 2 lazy 2 fix)

Wargameur.6950:

It’s not a legendary armor, it’s an ascended armor with upgrades for stat swap. It was advertised as such, developed as such. You want to feel legendary ? Get that moon in next monthly

That’s your opinion. It’s Legendary armor because… it is. That’s a fact. If it’s just Ascended armor, they would have left it as just that.

That is just plain and simple wrong on numerous levels.

Before you show me what you’re (as if, singular you) asking for, you could read the next half of my post.

And no, it’s not their opinion, it’s basically a fact, while your “fact”, ironicaly, is an opinion. Again, refer to the second half of my post that you seemingly disregarded.

Devs made it clear they’re not doing another pack of legendary armor skins any time soon. And any time soon in this case means probably never.

People from PvP and WvW were babbling that they need their stat-swap without having to go raiding. A-Net made a grumpy sound, added a legy upgrade to respevtive armor sets and mentally asked people to kitten off with that request. Your legendary PvP/WvW armor has no prestige and swag behind it because it was never intended to in the first place. Period.

Druid (ranger): Current PvE raid meta. Heals for the amount that is just enough and provides a big range of offensive buffs.

Auramancer tempest (elementalist): Used mostly in PvP and 1 (maybe 2, but it’s a stretch) raid encounters. High survivability and defensive support.

Ventari (revenant): More of a hipster healer than anything truly popular. Used in one specific raid encounter due to high survivability and in PvP shenanigans.

Healer Guardian: As a pure healer, is an option for rather borderline insane hipsters that are very into some sort of cleric RP. Technically capable of being a full healer-focused class, but doesn’t really exceed any of the candidates mentioned earlier. If looked at as an offensive frontliner with certain supportive capabilities, is a strong meta choise for mass PvP known as World vs World.

Minstrel Chronomancer (mesmer): another hipster choise. Is mostly a raid tank with a kittenload of all-around supportive buffs. Healing is more of a secondary focus.

Too narrow-focused to be a reasonable investment.
And no, they won’t be drowning in money for something like that, I assure you, you are just exagerating.

I support this idea. The assets are still there (or at least a few of them), and some could fill a niche that other backpieces can’t at the moment. I particularly want the medkit backpack for my “field medic” guardian, since I don’t recall ever finding any “medical” back in the game.

Wow! That’s quality kittenpost!

Vinceman.4572:

Xar.1387:

Cmon guys, i know theres more raiders with balls, which like to RAID, not farm useless pixels.

Balls? It’s more of a post-pubertal attitude. If you’d like to have balls play the real game – outside – and try to win there.

You mean that bull kitten P2W with terrible balance and the worst community that one could possibly imagine? That’s not ballsy, that’s masochistic.

What’s the reasoning behind this?

Why should I do that?

What will I get for doing something as irrational as this?

Oh you poor oblivious soul.

I’m here with the news worse than you could imagine.

Steal does prioritise stab still.

The fun part is that it now steals only ONE STACK of stability. Fun, right? Right? RIGHT?!

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Hmmmm. Ok. Though I don’t see how a discussion of how males don’t have as many design choices as females could possibly turn into an accusation of disliking/disrespecting women. That’s a deflection of the topic of this thread to a completely different topic. Both you and nosleepdemon are bringing up a topic (hostility to women) that irrelevant to the thread.

This quote below:

What I’m saying is that there was already a few unfunded tumblr style jabs at A-Net in this particular thread, which means one is not exactly wrong, when they suspect that other popular tumblr style acusations may eventually roll in.

Read into this quote. And don’t stop rereading it until it makes sense to you. Because it does make sense.

By the way, I wasn’t bringing up that topic, I was adressing a point made around it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Grimheart.2853:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

nosleepdemon.1368:

Are we almost at the point where we can outright call the developers mysogininists or is that still a couple of change.org signatures away? Please let me know, I’m just itching to start throwing around baseless accusations and kittenting on years of quality and hard work.

Misogyny is lacking respect for or disliking women. https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/misogynist

I don’t recall anyone in this thread saying ANet dislikes or doesn’t respect women. All I’ve seen is arguments that men don’t get the same range of armor designs as women do, that their choices are more restricted and have less chances to show off skin, fur, glow or tattoos.

Aside from your acusation, there’s been a straight up blatant tumblerina post on this thread, so I see where such a concern about calling A-Net mysogynistic would come from.

Where did I accuse ANet of disliking/disrespecting women?

I didn’t reference an exact mysogyny acusation made by you, as it doesn’t exist, I said that there was just ‘an acusation’, which is the one about conservative agenda.

What I’m saying is that there was already a few unfunded tumblr style jabs at A-Net in this particular thread, which means one is not exactly wrong, when they suspect that other popular tumblr style acusations may eventually roll in.

Arden.7480:

Oh and I forgot to mention that Sylvari can’t be killed, because the already lost their chance in HoT (Caithe was afraid that killing Mordremoth=killing all of Sylvari), but then it didn’t happen.

I am never agressive to the people of this forum, I’m just giving hard proofs of what Mavis said and why I don’t agree with it even if he/she is joking. I treat him/her as the normal, serious interlocutor.

I once made a passive-aggressive joke thread, suggesting Trahearne as a new rev legend (Not sure if I should link, but here it is anyway: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Rev-Elite-Spec-Idea-Marshal/first#post6561594 ). If I saw a person trying to tell me with all seriousness that the traits, mechanics and abilities that I wrote in there would be too overpowered and hard to balance/implement within the game, I’d point and laugh at that person and their hard proofs, and rightfully so, because so much as thinking about actually including something as absurd as that into the game would be way too much ‘not the point’ of the initial thread.

The guy/gal just mentioned of some “this is why we can’t have nice things” factors, I’m willing to bet they don’t expect devs to actually delete an entire race, no matter how awkard it is, or annihilate 90% of the main cast, simply because they suck.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The conservative agenda of the Devs would be supply, not demand, as they are supplying the armor.

Uhm…Good job on saying what I said… I guess?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Like I said, supply and demand is a good starting point, so thanks for bringing it up. However it’s what’s driving this supply and demand that’s more important to this discussion because it illuminates why one game has conservative male armor and another game has more skimpy choices. That would be culture, beliefs, etc. which is what I was trying to discuss earlier.

What you were trying to discuss earlier was adressed by me, and your complete disregard for that part of the conversation starts to be almost comedic at this point. What you were trying to discuss earlier concerns not the quantity of content, but the fact of the very existence of this type of content, which exists in the game, as I already presented, disproving the point of “conservative agenda”. I’ve no idea how many times I’ve told that to you, and if I should even bother to keep doing it.

Meanwhile, Supply and Demand deals with the concerns about the quantity of product.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

At any rate it’s after midnight for me, so adios, Thanks for your time and the discussion.

Oh, well.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Grimheart.2853:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It can’t be as simple as supply and demand as there are many other games, both old and new, both Western and Asian based, that have skimpy male armor. Some of those are extremely skimpy.

No offense, but I don’t think you understand supply and demand if you are trying to make it fit when there are many examples of other games with skimpy male armor. Unless of course its supply and demand to have conservative male armor in this game and supply and demand to have skimpy male armor in another game. If that’s your argument, well it’s a nicely convenient one that covers all possibilities.

Different games target different audienses and have different styles and settings. Porn isn’t made exclusevily for men either. I’ve already said, GW2 has a very broadly targetted all-over-the-place style in it’s character customization.

No offense either, but from how you process and operate the information given to you by me, I can say with confidence that I understand supply and demand better than you do.

But okay, let us disregard obvious target audience aspects.

I’ve shown plenty of evidence againstyour “conservative” argument too, as well as mentioning programming and designing aspects, and referencing to the fact that we, too, have skimpy male attire in this game, even though it’s quantity is below average. All of the above you simply disregarded and ignored. May that be because you can’t respond to it?

Supply and demand is a simple answer to a complex situation. Sure you can apply it to any situation where things are bought and sold but it’s a surface answer that doesn’t answer what drives supply and demand. It doesn’t take into account things such as culture or beliefs or, in this game, the Devs not wishing to push the envelope on what people wear.

So yes, supply and demand can cover the situation in a superficial sense but it’s not an answer that’s very deep as to why male armor is mostly conservative in this game but much more relaxed in what males wear in another game.

So thanks for your answer. It does covers all games. Unfortunately it’s too simple to be very useful as it’s what’s driving demand and supply that I was trying to discuss.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

So thanks for your answer.

You’re welcome.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

So yes, supply and demand can cover the situation in a superficial sense but it’s not an answer that’s very deep as to why male armor is mostly conservative in this game but much more relaxed in what males wear in another game.

It is an answer, you just can’t grasp as to why or how it is an answer.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Unfortunately it’s too simple to be very useful as it’s what’s driving demand and supply that I was trying to discuss.

It’s simple, but being simple in no way means it’s wrong.

Is isn’t useful to you because you aren’t opened to any kind of thought that differs from yours.

Your “Incredibly complicated” issue has been adressed by me in the same posts, you just keep ignoring it, likely because you can’t adress it.

You weren’t talking about what driving both the supply and demand either, you were talking about the conservative agenda of the developers, which already means that your issue has nothing to do with demand itself.

Arden.7480:

I will disappoint you, but:
1) they can’t kill Taimi, because:
-she is 16 years old and her career just began.
-no Taimi, no more researches and helping to find the weaknesses (If we would gonna cooperate with Phlunt, then I would never come back to this game).

2) why would ANet kill Braham? They can’t:
-he cracked the tooth in Hoelbrak- huge thing for Norns
-only because he lost his mother and behaved as the pest doesn’t mean he is idiot. He is just… Norn. This is illness who can’t be cured.
-Norn totally deserve to kill Jormag- it’s the point of their story- this is the point of being Norn. I hope Jormag didn’t go to pre-awakening state and we will see the battle with Jormag anyway.

3)Marjory? They lost their chance to get rid of her in Flashpoint, so she still has the role to play.

4)I hope you are kidding with “killing all of Sylvari”. So I don’t wanna comment that.

But if you are the follower of killing all of huge characters, the whole race. Well I feel stupid I even replied you.

You probably should, as I’m willing to bet on the fact that the message you responded to with such seriousness is merely a small thinly veiled passive-aggressive rant that itself carries next to no seriousness, as if devs are actually expected to do things mentioned in there.

Mavis.1463:

How to fix GW2’s story: Kill off Taimi, Braham and Marjory, kill off the Sylvari (except Canach), hire new writers. Alternatively, reboot the game ala FFXIV.

I totally approve though.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It can’t be as simple as supply and demand as there are many other games, both old and new, both Western and Asian based, that have skimpy male armor. Some of those are extremely skimpy.

No offense, but I don’t think you understand supply and demand if you are trying to make it fit when there are many examples of other games with skimpy male armor. Unless of course its supply and demand to have conservative male armor in this game and supply and demand to have skimpy male armor in another game. If that’s your argument, well it’s a nicely convenient one that covers all possibilities.

Different games target different audienses and have different styles and settings. Porn isn’t made exclusevily for men either. I’ve already said, GW2 has a very broadly targetted all-over-the-place style in it’s character customization.

No offense either, but from how you process and operate the information given to you by me, I can say with confidence that I understand supply and demand better than you do.

But okay, let us disregard obvious target audience aspects.

I’ve shown plenty of evidence againstyour “conservative” argument too, as well as mentioning programming and designing aspects, and referencing to the fact that we, too, have skimpy male attire in this game, even though it’s quantity is below average. All of the above you simply disregarded and ignored. May that be because you can’t respond to it?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Grimheart.2853:

my example simply shows that the reason for lack of revealing male armor models is very likely a technical issue of simply not producing enough armors, there’s no kitten conservative agenda behind it.

There was plenty of time during when they were making all the original armor to make some of those male armors skimpy, yet they didn’t. They put almost all their effort into making skimpy armor for females and none for males. That tells you that they didn’t want skimpy male armor back then. If one sex has skimpy armor and the other doesn’t then why is that?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The very fact that they said they are discussing the option of more revealing male armor/outfits highlights how conservative they are in this area as they feel armor that shows male skin requires discussion in a way that armor that shows female skin does not.

Grimheart.2853:

Supply and demand. Do you really need that to be explained to you?

So the problem then is that men don’t want to have exposed skin in a video game? And why is that? What is it about exposed male skin that there isn’t a demand for it? As a female I have no problem with exposed female skin. If it’s supply and demand, why do men shy away?

So you do, in fact, need me to explain what Supply and Demand means, because what you’re talking about here makes next to no sense, when it adresses my comment, and looks like you have no idea what the subject means at all.

I’ll try to make it simple for you. The demographic in MMOs is established that way that there’s usually more people in favor of sexy girls than there is for pretty boys. That means, skimpy female appearances are more likely to be favored. There’s more demand for them. A pretty inapropriate example, but an example nonetheless would be porn industry: There is more content, directed to males, because it is the general audience for it.

The initial point, however, is that we do have fairly skimpy male appearance choises, as I already listed above. They are in the game and there’s nothing conservatively masquiline about them, pretty much the opposite. That, to me, makes all the “conservative mindset”, “sexist”/“homophobic”/“primitive” arguments, made by some people in this thread and directed at A-Net, crumble and wither at how absurd and unfunded they are. The only issue being there’s not as many of them (Look below)

Just a flesh wound.3589:

make some of those male armors skimpy

They did make some of those skimpy. There’s just not as many of them as there is for females.

Though I don’t care much for any revealing armor, be it for males or females, I’m not, in fact, against adding more revealing male armors to the game, for the sake of expanding the customization options overall. GW2’s style seems to be all over the place, when it comes to character appearance, so for this game, such a thing would be appropriate, as pretty much anything else.

The only semi-relevant issue I can salvage from these somplaints is that there’s simply ‘not as many options’, which on it’s own is a valid concern, but, when combined with all these giggleworthy accusations of conservative behavior, smells of some sort of “equality of outcome” semi-communistic tumblr fueled mindset.

The game code is not made of fairy dust and rainbows, it takes time and effort, and you must’ve already seen how much time and effort it takes local designers to produce armor pieces.

DeanBB.4268:

You want a partner in-game?

Play a Ranger!

[There was supposed to be a bestiality joke here, but it was removed by the author for being too inappropriate for this forum’s enviroment]

Danikat.8537:

This bothers me too, I have a male charr, sylvari and norn and I want to be able to show off their fur patterns/bioluminescence/tattoos but it’s extremely difficult to find armour that allows you to do that.

Oddly enough heavy armour has the most revealing options for males. Medium you can just about manage 1 mostly bare arm but with light armour the most you can do is hide the mask and gloves so their face and hands are showing (and invisible shoes if you can afford them). It’s disappointing.

I don’t want anything “sexy” – a t-shirt or sleeveless vest and maybe shorts would be perfect. Just something that doesn’t totally cover the character.

Sleeveless/short sleeved/outright skimpy male armor light chestpieces include:

- Vigil vest (Sleevelss)
- Trickster Vest (Arms are covered with crude looking bandages, but shoulders are opened)
- Feathered and it’s fancy brother Flamekissed (A fairly skimpy chestpiece)
- Embroided (Short sleeved vest)
- Leystone (A fairly ugly rocky vest without sleeves)
- Forgeman (Short-to-moderate sleeves)

I’m not saying there’s a whole infinity of choises, but claiming that there’s no choises at all is not valid.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

My opinion is that ANet is way too conservative on the design of armor and outfits. They’re willing to be socially, culturally adventurous by having ‘not straight’ chars and showing strong female chars but when it comes to what those chars wear, ANet draws a conservative line in the sand and most of its armor keeps to the archetypes of sexy female, covered up female and strong, covered up male.

Female armor can show skin, even large amounts of skin, but male armor mostly does not (and no, I don’t consider a few inches of skin here or there on a male shoulder or arm, which is the type of thing that most people point to as showing skin, as revealing).

Braham’s Wolfborn outfit
Rainment of the Lich outfit
Ice Encasement Outfit
Daydreamer’s Outfit
Mursaat Outfit (A very bad example, but still something)

Add to the pile the fact that A-Net’s Social Justi… Ahem, minority pandering tendencies seem to outcompete even EA’s, I must ask a question: What kind of “conservative line” are you even talking about at this point?

If anyone goes “Hurr Durr, we are talking about armor here, not outfits, you dummy dum dum you!”, my example simply shows that the reason for lack of revealing male armor models is very likely a technical issue of simply not producing enough armors, there’s no kitten conservative agenda behind it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The very fact that they said they are discussing the option of more revealing male armor/outfits highlights how conservative they are in this area as they feel armor that shows male skin requires discussion in a way that armor that shows female skin does not.

Supply and demand. Do you really need that to be explained to you?

Gaesesagai.9421:

Yes and let’s not go too far with how “socially progressive” ArenaNet is. They have only “not straight” FEMALE characters. Which can easily be argued as intended for straight male as well. The absolute lack of gay male characters is extremely telling about the level of open mindedness and intelectual prowess of ArenaNet.

And no, the 2 gay sylvari in one of the sylvari origin stories do not matter, especially comparing to how many lesbians in centric story relevant spots we got and they certainly do not matter after ArenaNet’s retcon of sylvari lore which makes them little more than eunucs.

The “female is sexy har har drool” and the male “needs to wear a burqa” is a common trope amongst homophobic developers or simply ignorant ones. Where does ArenaNet fall exactly is not really clear.

Funnily enough this is why I decided to stop using real cash for the game a year or so ago. At launch the trope was almost not there and I thought “yay a smart not homophobic developer finally”. Then, as outfits start pouring in, it became more and more visible. Good for them.

DeceiverX.8361:

Snip

Your words about gladiator armor basically say exactly what I said. Concidering the fact that you’re trying to counter-argument my words, it only proves further that you’re failing to grasp the initial point about appearance itself that I was trying to make.

You’ve been shown videos by other people in this thread of cartwheels and sprints in plated armor. So, yeah, NOT a fullmetal coffin. The only way pope’s quote made sense to me IS “fullmetal coffin” thing. If the only point you two were trying to make is “Durrrrr, they don’t get tired as fast as we do in real world”, then I really can’t even see why I should explain why that makes zero relevancy in the conversation I was initiating.

The “gain more stats without armor” makes zero sense too. -> Enchantments <-

Claim about set quality seems like you’re suggesting that in a world with magitech, holograms, mech-building asura, industrial charr and magically overcharged everything we can’t make a good quality armor set.

On that note, I’m wrapping it up here and shall no longer respond in this particular thread. If you wish to tell me how wrong I am, I encourage you to find me in game, because I’ve no patience to argue in this forum’s enviroment.

DeceiverX.8361:

That said, you’re absolutely wrong here about how much you discount speed: A real set of actual (non-fantasy-BS-collector-trash) armor weighs a ton and impedes motion incredibly. Protective pauldrons will prevent one from being able to lift his arms straight up and erect. You can “roll” (mostly using momentum to carry the maneuver to force glancing blows and to get lower while retaining some degree of mobility – not as an act of agility, and you WILL have troubles getting up at speed) and “run” (comparable to jogging without, and demanding a TON of energy), but with armor on, you’ll be nowhere near as fast as someone without it.

If I said that having a plate is just the same in terms of mobility and energy effectiveness as not having one, then I probably had another stroke at the time of writing. Unless you misinterpreted my point. Again.

I found this french video in a few minutes of googling, the first part showcases some of the movements in plate armor. This is pretty much what sparks in my head when I say “NOT a fullmetal coffin”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=203&v=5hlIUrd7d1Q

Because a stereotype I mostly see in people’s minds is that a heavy armored target moves at about 1 meter-per-century speed and takes 5 seconds to swing a greatsword once.

DeceiverX.8361:

There is never, ever, an advantage on a battlefield to being without full protection, ESPECIALLY the helmet, gloves, and boots/greaves.

My words had nothing to do with the actual protection, and everything to do with character’s appearance and, perhaps, background story or general field of expertise, if one who designs their outfits goes advanced enough. Removing a helmet from a warrior could make a funny cheesy “I want my enemies to look their death in the eyes before they meet their demise” vibe, as long as the person would go far enough to describe all the brain injuries their character had or could have with such a way of armor usage. Removing shoes could complement the looks of something in the theme of a “Forest Dryad” outfit. Sure, one would get their foot choped off the moment they enter combat and someone aims at it, but it wasn’t the point I was making in the first place.

Pit Fighter’s armor, for instance, doesn’t make sense in the actual battle, but it made sense in actual pit fights and gladiator arenas, where effectiveness had nothing to do with their purpose.

Poof…

Sigh…

You know what? Screw it. This Soviet Russia is getting on my nerve and it starts to seem I soon won’t be able to keep this conversation alive even if I want to (which I kinda… not so much anymore). This thread isn’t a good place for me to continue, so I’m about to wrap it up here. Now you can concider yourself victorious from your perspective, both of you, because I’m removing myself and ceasing my contact with this thread.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Nicklelback is a great example. You can say, objectively, that they never make it to any critics top 100 lists, none of any fan-site or industry top 100 list. You can’t say that tons and tons of people hate their music so much it’s generated legions of memes and jokes. That’s all objective.

What we cannot say is that it’s objectively bad music. There’s no objective criteria for deciding that.

The objective criteria is not putting enough (if any) effort/talent/soul and simply producing medoicre quality auto-tuned content. The objective criteria is quality. If you’re not doing it good enough, then it’s quite obviously not done good enough.

Liewec.2896:

having your character look the way you want them to look is one of the biggest parts of an MMO, and GW2 is severely lacking in that department.

By the way, this one is most probably the most irrational thing I’ve heard today. And that says something.

Liewec.2896:

Grimheart.2853:

You could just take off your chestpiece and expirience the magical feeling behind completely unprotected torso yourself, in practical combat.

because this (heavy) obviously offers more protection than this (medium) right?
don’t try bringing logic into games, it never works.

having your character look the way you want them to look is one of the biggest parts of an MMO, and GW2 is severely lacking in that department.

if we want to have our big burly guys bare-chested then we should be able too without negatively effecting our stats.

I already said everything about it there was to be said by me. I’m not doing it again.

Reading is [DELETED]

PopeUrban.2578:

Grimheart.2853:

You could just take off your medium armor chestpiece to achieve the same results, and expirience the magical feeling behind completely unprotected torso yourself, in practical combat.

The mechanics of the world literally do not care what you’re wearing. Some of the skimpiest chest armor in the game is “heavy armor” and grants more defensive benefits than medium armor.

Also, you can just put on an “outfit” and the entire concept of armor goes out the window anyway. I wear “heavy armor” on my “acrobatic” daredevil all the time thanks to this mechanic.

Also, giant norn and charr in actual heavy armor roll all over the place like olympic gymnasts.

This is not a world where the words “practical” and “combat” should be used in the same sentence.

True, my statement is merely an act of mockery, made in order to tell my opinion on making an invisible chestpiece being moderately silly. Bare feet, cleen face (no helm), non-covered hands, no extra shoulder armor is moderately-to-mildly reasonable in certain cases, while an entire missing chestpiece with only underwear/bare chest to show is just kind something you don’t even put effort into developing in the first place. Also underwear, yes. That would look silly too. Mostly underwear is the most silly factor.

In fact, even if adding something like that, that should be the point of going full clown-fiesta and adding the invisible leggings to the pile as well.

By the way, I’m not sure how much you know about armor, but I know enough that a proper set of heavy armor Doesn’t make you an almost immobile fullmetal coffin, and you can run, roll and even get up on a horse in it. And well, norn are strong, and charr are both moderately strong and agile, so no idea how those two races grabbed your attention from everyone else, especially when there’s those noodle-limbed cabbages running around in plates-n-stuff.

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Ookamikun.6472:

Obviously we are all referred to as the Pact Commander in the story and treats us that we’re the only one there, but in the event stories, they do acknowledge that there is more than one player in the field. And most of these event stories are considered something that happened, like the Silverwastes meta or the Dragon Stand meta.

So who are the other players to us exactly? Are they treated as Pact Soldiers as we are Pact Commanders? Or are they actually Commanders too since multiple commanders could exist in a chain of command? Most of the time they are seen as “other adventurers” but in certain meta stories they are considered part of the Pact.

It’s especially strange when you group for a story mission. You are all “the Commander” or “the boss”.

don’t worry, only the Instance Leader is called boss, the rest of the party are “friends” or “called upon Pact Champions”

I know. What I’m saying is that it is strange when the NPCs in the story talk to The Commander or “the boss” and there are more than 1 of you but they only talk to one of you. It continues to be confusing to me (since I don’t group for the story often) when someone else opens the instance so I hear their Asura voice answering instead of my character’s or see their character in the cut scenes. And it frankly doesn’t make any sense. I think it was a mistake to make the PC the ONE hero of the entire world in an MMO.

Well.. you can argue about that, to each their own. You’re not wrong or right.
But on another note, raids do something else. Since there’s no pact commander in the raids, only adventurers, anyone can talk and respond to events by being the conversation trigger. Glenna for example will always adress the first player to enter the prison block. After that, the second player to enter makes a quip, and then the last player to enter.
With that in mind, between more bosses, the first player to talk to glenna or pass a certain flag on the map will trigger a quip, and sometimes the quip is even adjusted to the race. The dialogue in raids is actually very good.

[Forsaken Thiket’s raiding wing 2 spoilers, as well as Living Story season 3 episode 1 spoilers, I guess?]

Not entirely right, perhaps even far from right, if I remember all the bits correctly. The pact squad leader you save at the end of Salvation Pass (Benett was his name, right?) addresses you later in Bloodstone Fen in the conversation as someone who took part in the rescue mission, therefore you’re still kind of you even in raid instances. The way I see it is that perhaps, every player gets to think that it’s them who leads the charge, while everyone else beside them is either a random adventurer or a mercenary, as Glenna refers to the raid squad in one of her journals (As far as I remember, it’s the one in her camp in Stronghold of the Faithful).

You could just take off your medium armor chestpiece to achieve the same results, and expirience the magical feeling behind completely unprotected torso yourself, in practical combat.

Nusku.3941:

Why is it that raiders always assume people who don’t raid are newbies, man I’ve played this game since launch and got daimond for 3 seasons of pvp, and never raided. People who raid are so full of themselves.

PvPers who think they’re good at the game and go to raids, shining their diamonds and legends, used to be my favorite thing to watch for giggles back in my training run days. It’s kittening hillarious, let me tell ya.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Grimheart.2853:

It’s not a matter of my personal subjective storytelling preference in the slightest. There is an objective answer and it is that Trahearne was a bad character, just like beforementioned Skarlet and Kormir.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

It’s an opinion, regardless of how sure you are that your point of view is shared by the masses. There’s widespread differences of opinion about Trahearne, Scarlet, and even Kormir.

You do damage to your own points of view by trying to insist otherwise.

Grimheart.2853:

I’ve no idea how to explain to you, that if a chef in a restoraunt serves you a literal pile of fecal matter on a plate when you asked for a steak, it doesn’t matter if you like it because you’re into that sort if stuff, it’s still a pile of fecal matter on a plate. Seems pointless to me to go on anymore.

That would be a great analogy if it weren’t off the mark in so many ways. I get you don’t like how the character was written, nor do you like how the actor was directed initially nor for the updated voice over. That doesn’t mean that you (or I) can speak for how anyone else felt.

People walked out of Igor Stravinsky’s The Rites of Spring when it was first performed. The critics panned it as a “laborious and puerile barbarity”, i.e. fecal matter on a plate. Only a year later, the performance of the same music was a considered a triumph.

There’s no objective truth about art; people like what they like. So no, you don’t have to explain to me about how you feel. That doesn’t mean I have to agree.

If I exclusively said that ‘noone has the right to enjoy the poorly written Trahearne’, I encourage you to show me where exactly I said that, and upon seeing my quote, I’ll admit on having a stroke at the moment of writing.

Something being bad doesn’t mean noone can enjoy it. Bad tastes exist, and I have them too, in certain spheres.

I quite like a few Nickelback songs, but if I ever dare to call them a ‘Great’ music band (which I won’t, because they’re not, but let’s assume for the sake of the argument that I will have an opinion like that because I enjoy some of the content they produce), I should be smashed over the head, because they’re sooooo painfuly much kings of “average” you could slap their photo next to a dictionary definition of the “average” word.

Something being poorly done doesn’t mean noone has the right to enjoy it. Literally everything in the world has around a 100% chance that there will be at least someone who will like it, but that doesn’t make everything in the world good.

Trahearne was poorly done, people can enjoy him for whatever reason they have, be it poor taste, low standarts for writing, having nothing to compare to or not giving a single kitten about the writing itself. That character was low standart, if someone has their standarts at this level, they’ll probably enjoy him, I’ll just point at those people and laugh, mostly for giggles, because I’m a bad person like that (and I won’t deny that I am for doing that, since it’s, well, actual ‘truth’ in this instance, but there’s no way I’m admitting someone did a good job in the writing department), just as someone could point at me and laugh on some music forum if I tried to praise beforementioned Nickelback as a high standart music band.

I’m not expecting you to agree by the way, I never expect that from anyone on the internet, and I kind of have no idea why you think I should. And I wasn’t explaining my feelings either, because in that particular instance you quoted, It was about making a point, and not any sort of opinions or “feelings”. the point being:

Grimheart.2853:

Subjective opinion is prefering pork over chicken. Trahearne was an objectively poorly cooked chicken, metaphorically speaking.

zectra.6978:

Grimheart.2853:

zectra.6978:

If it’s red. It’s dead. You think there is mercy in war? I give no quarter when I lead.

Gotta love dem “edgy” commanders who usually do something like chase down single roamers with 15+ man zergs and think they’re actually “Merciless killing machines”.

I was being sarcastic. Look who’s talking. Nuff said

Your sarcasm was way too ambiguous and sounded too genuen. So yeah, this is not how you sarcasm, especially on the forum where it’s so bad that this kind of thought process may as well be an honest opinion of an individual.

And also, who’s “talking”, exactly? What’s your case against me? I’m quite interested to know.

So I had some fashion wars brainstorming this morning on how sad it is that shield covers character’s backpack in idle mode and how it could be fixed. It can’t be fixed on the hip, that would look silly, and slapping it on top of the backpack wouldn’t look good either, not to mention all the clipping. When suddenly I remembered my relatively recent days of Skyrim gameplay, where characters were just holding their shields all the time. So I got this weird unlikely-to-be-implemented-but-still-seemingly-reasonable idea, what if we do the same? What if devs just add an option to fix the shield on character’s arm instead of their back to achieve compromise, so that way we get to se both the fancy backpack ‘and’ weapon skins one has carefully mixed into their character’s appearance? It shouldn’t be in any way difficult with animations either.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Grimheart.2853:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

snip

It’s not a matter of my personal subjective storytelling preference in the slightest. There is an objective answer and it is that Trahearne was a bad character, just like beforementioned Skarlet and Kormir. People liked then too, doesn’t make them good characters. He was, shoehorned, half- kitten d, partially marry sue and generaly useless. He wasn’t a real hero, he wasn’t a well written character, he wasn’t truly important and he didn’t deserve any credit he recieved. It’ not about thay ‘your’ protagonist isn’t ‘the protagonist of the story’, it’s about this whole thing being objectively poorly made.

There’s plenty of memes and ironic references to this guy and his “spiritual bretheren”, and they in no way deal with the egocentric tendencies of those parts of the community either.

It is subjective.

You shouting the word “objective” over and over will not turn your subjective opinions into objective fact. That will never happen. Your criticisms are largely subjective. Doesn’t mean they’re invalid, at all, but they are, fundamentally, subjective. Maybe this is a language barrier thing? I don’t know what your primary language is but your spelling and grammar errors are consistent enough to suggest it’s not English (probably Northern or Eastern European?), and maybe in your primary language objective and subjective translate to something that is NOT the same as what they mean in English, where they are very certain terms.

I actually agree with a lot of them, but I have enough sense to know I’m being subjective here too.

Also, Kormir, what the kitten dude? Kormir was the same trope done extremely well. She was a very good character, interesting, fun, and didn’t hog the limelight or make the player feel unnecessary or second-rate. I liked Kormir every bit as much as I disliked Trahearne.

As a dungeon master for pen and paper RPGs, I had to learn how to run NPCs so they didn’t make the PCs seem worthless, but still make some NPCs plot-important (the PCs can’t be every king, queen, high priest, martyr, revolutionary or whatever), and Kormir is an example of how to do that decently. Trahearne is an example of how to kitten it up horribly on multiple levels.

Scarlet was a character with problems, I agree, but they’re different problems, because she was an adversary. She is thus incapable of being a “Mary Sue” or the like. She is also not a Villain Sue as we never really see stuff from her perspective. In fact, trope wise, her problem is not the same at all – she is in fact more of a Generic Doomsday Villain – http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenericDoomsdayVillain

Subjective opinion is prefering pork over chicken. Trahearne was an objectively poorly cooked chicken, metaphorically speaking. I already explained, I’m not against characters taking away my precious fame, glory and screentime, and even if I am, I won’t start kittening about it on forums because there’s something I don’t like, much like I’m not kittening about 75% of this game’s lore because there’s some world building aspects I personally detest. Trahearne just didn’t do a good job.

I sometimes might like me some poorly written power-fantasy loved/feared by everyone perfect-in-every-way marry sues, but if someone tells me my opinion is crap because it’s not a well written character, I’ll tell them that their statement is true, because it pretty much is. I won’t do so in case with Trahearne.

I’m not sure where exactly my grammar is bad, and whether or not it’s actually bad grammar and not a “fat fingers + mobile device” type of issue and I’ll be honest, I can’t be bothered to check for mistakes at the moment.

Upd. I made a silly decision to actually believe I’ve no idea what I’m talking about, so I double checked on the “objective opinion” definition, and it means exactly what I meant. I’m just enough of an arrogant dipsheite to brand my thoughts on certain subjects as actual facts. Because Trahearne’s role was never good storytelling.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Also, Kormir, what the kitten dude? Kormir was the same trope done extremely well.

BTW this is probably where we should cease our social contact, I don’t believe anything productive is likely to happen from our conversation.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Grimheart.2853:

It’s not a matter of my personal subjective storytelling preference in the slightest. There is an objective answer and it is that Trahearne was a bad character, just like beforementioned Skarlet and Kormir.

It’s an opinion, regardless of how sure you are that your point of view is shared by the masses. There’s widespread differences of opinion about Trahearne, Scarlet, and even Kormir.

You do damage to your own points of view by trying to insist otherwise.

I’ve no idea how to explain to you, that if a chef in a restoraunt serves you a literal pile of fecal matter on a plate when you asked for a steak, it doesn’t matter if you like it because you’re into that sort if stuff, it’s still a pile of fecal matter on a plate. Seems pointless to me to go on anymore.

Organic combat feeling is important, but so is math. I’ve played an MMO with obscure numbers once, I wasn’t happy about it when all the testing had to be done at my expense.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

snip

It’s not a matter of my personal subjective storytelling preference in the slightest. There is an objective answer and it is that Trahearne was a bad character, just like beforementioned Skarlet and Kormir. People liked then too, doesn’t make them good characters. He was, shoehorned, half- kitten d, partially marry sue and generaly useless. He wasn’t a real hero, he wasn’t a well written character, he wasn’t truly important and he didn’t deserve any credit he recieved. It’ not about thay ‘your’ protagonist isn’t ‘the protagonist of the story’, it’s about this whole thing being objectively poorly made.

There’s plenty of memes and ironic references to this guy and his “spiritual bretheren”, and they in no way deal with the egocentric tendencies of those parts of the community either.

Ariurotl.3718:

You can’t be serious. Trahearne’s voice acting is superb, it does a great job at portraying just what sort of person he is.

I can’t honestly say if geniously ironic or, politely speaking, “something else”

Ashantara.8731:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Actually, Matthew Brenher voices several post-HoT characters, including the one by LA’s Mystic Forge, some in various Pact camps, and so on. He was brought back for HoT and agreed to re-record some of his lines from the personal story, including his battle lines.

I think the result is a much improved Treahearne. Instead of sounding like a whining Eyore (“this won’t end well” and “moving on”), he sounds like a librarian reluctantly fulfilling his destiny as a leader in the epic fight against an elder dragon trying to destroy the world as we know it.

So, pronouncing “TO ARMS!”, an obvious battle cry usually shouted to the troops, like you just got out of bed and are about to yawn, is considered “improvement”?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Voice acting is, in my opinion, a lot more difficult than stage or film — you rarely get any sort of useful ‘feedback’, since you have neither an audience nor any other actors around (at least, not for video games). Everything you do lacks the full context

I do get that and know that the work is being done out of context. In the late 1990s I attended a tv show’s fan club convention that invited the two female German voices of the two lead characters. They told us the exact same thing after the fans had noticed that these actors had no clue at all about the actual storylines and thus couldn’t give their personal opinion on anything.

And while I agree that most things are a question of taste, I doubt that bad voice acting is one of them. You can like or dislike a voice per se (like in your example of the female Norn PC), but you cannot really argue about an obvious lack of intonation. Intonation is either there or it is not. What you can argue about is the way that fact is being perceived. And to me it doesn’t sound like a librarian stepping out into the big bad world, it sounds like someone is reading a phone book, providing the character with zero personality whatsoever.

Grimheart.2853:

Ashantara.8731:

Trahearne was supposed to be an inspiring figure, motivating his troups and being looked upon as the hero he never wanted to be.

https://youtu.be/FopyRHHlt3M

Exactly. The reason for making this statement appear as a bad joke was the lame voice acting.
.

P.S. @ “emotionless” Asura: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6J55-Nh790&t=906s

It has next to nothing to do with Trahearne’s voice acting and pretty much everything to do with him being straight up a terrible, unlikable and useless character all along. No amount of voice acting can fix that.

zectra.6978:

If it’s red. It’s dead. You think there is mercy in war? I give no quarter when I lead.

Gotta love dem “edgy” commanders who usually do something like chase down single roamers with 15+ man zergs and think they’re actually “Merciless killing machines”.

Ashantara.8731:

Trahearne was supposed to be an inspiring figure, motivating his troups and being looked upon as the hero he never wanted to be.

https://youtu.be/FopyRHHlt3M

Psientist.6437:

Grimheart.2853:

Psientist.6437:

Grimheart.2853:

Psientist.6437:

Grimheart.2853:

Psientist.6437:

Not more whining about Kormir!?!?!

New Rule!

If you bring up “Being Kormired” you have to explain how our characters could continue playing as gods in Tyria! We all role-play as employees of Arenanet? Our time spent farming for leather in Tyria is us taking a break?

Oh! OH! I know the right answer!
…Don’t make stupid story that doesn’t work in an MMO setting if you can’t ’un’stupid it. Or at least don’t expect people to just buy your kitten when you do.

Why doesn’t Kormir receiving Abaddon’s magic not work for an mmo? The only way I can see that being true is if mmo’s must put aggrandizing the PC above everything else.

You don’t seem to have any idea on what I am talking about, and it’s not my fault in the slightest. I hope you can do the math by the way of exclusion on that one.

Make your case. Why doesn’t the story work for an mmo. Why can’t mmo stories include our PCs receiving less power or shinies than an NPC?
Bluster isn’t an argument, it is just noise.

In short, I hope you got the chance to hear out my point, because It shall not be repeated for obvious reasons.

I don’t communicate well either.

I noticed

Psientist.6437:

Grimheart.2853:

Psientist.6437:

Grimheart.2853:

Psientist.6437:

Not more whining about Kormir!?!?!

New Rule!

If you bring up “Being Kormired” you have to explain how our characters could continue playing as gods in Tyria! We all role-play as employees of Arenanet? Our time spent farming for leather in Tyria is us taking a break?

Oh! OH! I know the right answer!
…Don’t make stupid story that doesn’t work in an MMO setting if you can’t ’un’stupid it. Or at least don’t expect people to just buy your kitten when you do.

Why doesn’t Kormir receiving Abaddon’s magic not work for an mmo? The only way I can see that being true is if mmo’s must put aggrandizing the PC above everything else.

You don’t seem to have any idea on what I am talking about, and it’s not my fault in the slightest. I hope you can do the math by the way of exclusion on that one.

Make your case. Why doesn’t the story work for an mmo. Why can’t mmo stories include our PCs receiving less power or shinies than an NPC?
Bluster isn’t an argument, it is just noise.

In short, I hope you got the chance to hear out my point, because It shall not be repeated for obvious reasons.

Psientist.6437:

Grimheart.2853:

Psientist.6437:

Not more whining about Kormir!?!?!

New Rule!

If you bring up “Being Kormired” you have to explain how our characters could continue playing as gods in Tyria! We all role-play as employees of Arenanet? Our time spent farming for leather in Tyria is us taking a break?

Oh! OH! I know the right answer!
…Don’t make stupid story that doesn’t work in an MMO setting if you can’t ’un’stupid it. Or at least don’t expect people to just buy your kitten when you do.

Why doesn’t Kormir receiving Abaddon’s magic not work for an mmo? The only way I can see that being true is if mmo’s must put aggrandizing the PC above everything else.

You don’t seem to have any idea on what I am talking about, and it’s not my fault in the slightest. I hope you can do the math by the way of exclusion on that one.

VentiGlondi.9830:

Oh, everyone hates mary sues, but if it’s your character that gets to be a god, then it’s all fine?

Sheesh, do you actually need something that obvious to be explained to you?

Psientist.6437:

Not more whining about Kormir!?!?!

New Rule!

If you bring up “Being Kormired” you have to explain how our characters could continue playing as gods in Tyria! We all role-play as employees of Arenanet? Our time spent farming for leather in Tyria is us taking a break?

Oh! OH! I know the right answer!
…Don’t make stupid story that doesn’t work in an MMO setting if you can’t ’un’stupid it. Or at least don’t expect people to just buy your kitten when you do.

mathion.8549:

As a suggestion, in addition to actually fixing the glitch, increase the defense and health of the Lagos assassin that kills the Claw of Koda and make it a non-Champ group event that takes AT LEAST five participants to win, meaning that it would take a deliberate act of multiple players to win it. Better yet, hide the “group event” part and just make it impossible for less than five players to kill the assassin before it kills the Claw of Koda.

As someone who did C&C precursor collection and had to go through ~5 glitched instances to kill the assasin alone on a desolate instance, I say screw that suggestion

ianervan.7915:

..and this is the point where I stop playing. When game developers include their godless and god-hating ideology in the game and expect me to be a good lemming and play along I’m just gonna say no thanks. I understand most players would kill their own mother if the ingame quest awarded thirty pieces of silver, but to me role-playing is important in a role-playing game and no I’m not going to roleplay killing Balthazar and helping Asuras. For those who don’t know, Asura is a demon in Hindu mythology and their traits are “power” and “arrogance”, much like the Asuras in GW2.

And no you can’t have my stuff I’ll offer that to one of the gods.

https://youtu.be/FopyRHHlt3M