Guild Wars 2

Makai.3429:

Heijincks.9267:

Makai.3429:

Cyninja.2954:

Makai.3429:

Jahroots.6791:

You’re probably not missing anything. It’s a matter of taste.

Some players are into ‘twitch’ style gaming. They enjoy mechanically complex encounters and quickly become bored if they don’t feel a rush while playing. Most (if not all) of the highly skilled, seriously dedicated sort that the devs actually collaborate with fall into this category, thus going forward a lot of of the newer PvE content appears to have been designed with their preferences in mind.

There are still lots of others (like me) who really just want something moderately engaging to play with other people at a comfortable pace, but we aren’t the intended audience for fractals and raids.

For example: I really, really enjoyed T4 fractals when Necro was OP and instabilities were basically negligible. You could pug everything everyday with virtually guaranteed success. And for what it’s worth, the rewards were much more satisfying when the content was easier. But, others felt this level of difficulty was a ‘joke’ and so on, so they changed things to be legitimately challenging. So now the hardcore players are satisfied, but now I can hardly stand to bother with ’em.

They simply cannot please everyone, unfortunately.

Yep, and those of us who don’t like or can’t do twitch play are getting pushed out of the game, just to satisfy the elitist raiders, which is really sad.

No one is forcing you to do T4 fractals. No one is forcing you to raid (even less so now that there is alternative methods to gain legendary armor).

What you expect is the same amount of rewards for 0 effort. Fine, play open world pve or run dungeons, the rewards in some of those areas are huge too.

No one is pushing any one out of anything by adding challenging content. The fact that you can’t clear the content but still want the rewards is hardly the fault of the raiding crowd.

Putting words in my mouth. Nice. I don’t really care about rewards, nor did I mention them once – I just want to be able to play relaxing group content after a hard day of work, but since the new Raid-Fractals and Raids have pushed out Dungeons, there’s not much choice left.

If you don’t care about rewards and want to relax, T1 is your friend. The option’s there.

I don’t think it’s fair to say that the game is “catering to elitists”. Just like how you don’t like hard content, should Anet only release easy content when there are players who actually do want a challenge? I think the game would be pretty boring if everything can just be facerolled.

I’m not against hard content…I just hate the way Anet implements it, and how much of a vast departure it is from the original. I loved GW1, and was really good at it, and it’s awful to not be able to do certain content just because I don’t have an insanely good APM or reaction time, or because visual noise prevents me from reading enemy actions. When the game first game out, dungeons were the end game content, and it felt really nice to lead my friends through them. Nowadays I just sit around Queensdale and help new players since people like me are getting grandfathered out.

I deleted my post because I realized I wasn’t really making a relevant response.

Anyway, I get what you mean. It’d be nice to have dungeons back in one form or another (currently, it feels like wasted content). That said, I definitely think that the direction that Anet is taking with fractals and raids is a good one.

For the same reasons players stop playing other MMORPGs. There’s no unique reason why people stop playing GW2. Most MMORPGs don’t have a 100% staying power. From previous experience, about 1/5 people actually continue playing (for any given MMO) after the first couple weeks, and 1/5 of that continue after a few months.

Boyd.5438:

hey Mirta.5029, since you say you can do those temples, why not do it now? i can see 3 FULL population servers with them contested why not do it now?

straits and malchor is empty atm. so, what u gonna do about it? where is your passion to un-contest it?

or was that just all talk not action?

this is the things im talking about. people always claim this and that but heck. why are they contested? where is your passion?

TC BG and DB full and contested. show some love. open it all?

or is there no point because there is nothing good coming out of it?

show me. im keen to see what u can do with your “3 man” group you claimed earlier.

would love to see it on youtube too. 3 man band. please.

or is it just to disturb and annoy everyone else? forumers are watching

Honestly, your post just reeks of contempt. It’s as if you’re one of those farmers who tell players that want to complete the event to screw off.

If this is the case, then this patch is your “karma”, with respect to the irony of one of your other posts, namely this one:

Boyd.5438

big guild.. kk. well whatever it is im out of it.

hopefully you guys get what you want. but mind you what comes around goes around. today you stuff someone, later one someone will stuff you up too enjoy.

More so, I don’t understand why this is surprising for so many players. Everyone saw the nerf coming. It was blatantly unintended, and while I wouldn’t go as far as calling this an exploit, no one should have not saw it coming.

Erasculio.2914:

maddoctor.2738:

You can achieve most hearts by doing dynamic events near them (except for 2-3 out of 301 hearts) that’s also a fact.

Wrong. A quick look at the lists of hearts shows it’s more than “2-3”. Your “fact” is a joke.

More humorously, you don’t even understand the argument you are trying to defend. Vayne claimed my criticism of hearts was too harsh because he never has sto stop to do them – he just plays the nearby dynamic events, and that fills the hearts. In other words, he just ignores them. If the best thing you can say about an aspect of the game is that you can ignore it, it deserves to be harshly criticized.

Star Ace.5207:

while accusing everybody who disagrees with your “infallible” arguments

My arguments are infallible since no one here has managed to refute them. The great majority has not even tried.

This topic has 3 main discussions:

1. “Your review is your opinion”. Which is a pleonasm.

2. “Hearts can be ignored since doing dynamic events fills them”. That’s not true, as I have already proved taking examples from the game. Even if it were, though, that’s a weak argument, as described above (since when is ignoring an aspect of the game a sign that it has been well developed?).

3. “You are trolling”. Ad hominem may be the most common logical fallacy on the internet, but it’s still the weakest one.

The review, that some people are complaining is too long, is long because it has points about most aspects of the game. I am still waiting to see a decent, logical counter-argument to the points there. So far, Vayne has tried to counter one line (and has been proved to be wrong), and a single other person has tried to counter with some random nonsense, and that’s it. All other replies are basically one of the 3 variations above, not really adding anything to the discussion.

And the inability to have a decent discussion here is – guess what? – a good way to show people how the community here is lacking.

Wow, what a severe case of a superiority complex and purple prose. By the way, you can’t refute an opinion, if that’s what you’re asking.

However, you can state how an opinion is wrong. For starters, let’s take that tidbit regarding what you said about the community. It’s completely based on your opinion that the community is bad. In other words, you’re basing an argument off your own opinion, which is a severe logical fallacy. This is just a start that goes to show how flawed your “review” is.

I don’t really care if people hate the game. Some people hate the Half Life series as well. If you don’t like GW2, alright sure, but to tell people they’re all wrong for saying why they disagree with you based on preference, and presenting extremely flawed arguments… well… just deserves an epic facepalm.

I wonder if you wrote this with the prospect of trying to convince people into thinking that the game is not as good as they thought it was, and at the same time trying to make yourself look like an intellectual master gamer of some sort.

Erasculio.2914:

Heijincks.9267:

You’re trying to tell Anet about things:
a) most people don’t really care about
b) most people disagree with you about

I’m rather curious as to how you know what “most people” think.

I don’t know. However, the fact that you implicitly assert that you do somehow know in regards to your interpretations gives me a warrant to generalize as well. It’s to prove a point to you rather than to provide a counterpoint, but proving this point also scrutinizes your “review”.

Despite this however, there are more in disagreement to your “review” than there are in agreement.

Erasculio.2914:

The conclusion to your own line of thought is the answer to your question. This review is not for the community; why would I bother writing something for it? The purpose of this review is to tell ArenaNet what they have done wrong. Replying to the community’s rants serves the purpose of keeping this in a place where it’s more likely ArenaNet will see it.

You’re trying to tell Anet about things:
a) most people don’t really care about
b) most people disagree with you about

If that is the case then I feel obliged to inform you that your “review” was nothing more than a humongous waste of time. I don’t think telling “what Anet has done wrong” was really your original purpose.

If on the flipside you’re trying to tell the community what you think, then that’s less of a waste of time.

Caedmon.6798:

Entropy.4732:

It’s incredible how one patch has utterly destroyed what was once an incredibly addictive game. Before patch our server was flooded with players and commanders. You could always log on an find a fight. After patch it’s like a ghost town. I logged on and found myself flipping ogres solo just cuz there was nothing else to do. Haven’t seen a commander in ages. Gradually players trickled in and we got enough to go attack Ogrewatch. Same as before, the other force sauntered in and put a few foes on their AC’s. We retreated to the hill and set up trebs. Then waited and guarded those trebs. Epic stuff sitting around watching a treb work. Enough time elapsed without any major progress that the red team decided to wipe our treb. We defended it for a bit. Then folks just quit. Not worth it to players at this point. The real thing WvW needed to get player base up is a major reward for the winning team. Imagine if there was a set of incredible, unique armor with glow effects that you could only get from WINNING weekly match ups. I’ll take a new currency, sure. People would play then. Instead we get overpowered arrow carts that destroy the karma XP train which was another reason players were drawn to WvW. Thank god I leveled my character in WvW pre-patch. Impossible now. I still hold out hope that Anet will mend the error of their ways and give us back WvW.

If they will not listen to us now,or revert back with So many complaints..it means they will never listen to us when something they implement is a thing the community doesn’t like,and it will show they go their own way no matter what,and that we just have to suck it up and deal with it.So..basically this is the big turning point.Does anet care enough to listen to it’s community,or does it go it’s own way and losing a chunk of players while doing so ?

As far as I’m concerned Anet never goes back on their decisions. They’ve had this kind of rep since GW1.

If there’s some sort of detection for these traps, then they might work out. I’ll just wait and see.

Aytrix.4059:

The fact that this has not been resolved is disheartening to say the least. This is absolutely terrible decision making on Anet’s part. How many more dedicated WvW players and possible paying customers have to leave before they get a clue?

I doubt Anet wasn’t able to anticipate what would happen. They have all the data and statistics. I don’t think they’re unable to foresee that shaking changes will negatively affect the playerbase (I mean Anet pulled this kind of thing several times already). Given that there is support for this decision, they’ll just wait until WvW is replaced by like players.

I’m thinking this is more of a purge than an actual bad decision. The former WvW probably wasn’t how they wanted it to be, and to make it how they want to be, they’d need to sacrifice players in the process (many major patches in all sorts of MMORPG results in this anyway). That said, we haven’t seen what they want to make WvW, so all this talk about permanent stalemates and slow WvW is inconclusive.

Zoel.9154:

So then why should it be easy to get a critical mass of arrow carts?

Sorry, you did need seige to take down defended structures before the patch. I’m not really sure where you could have gotten the notion that you didn’t need it.

Do you think we just used it for giggles?

It shouldn’t be easy; however it shouldn’t be impractical to do so as well. High risk, low reward. Honestly, I bet with just even a slight amount of coordination most of those arrow carts could have been down. The way the arrow carts are positioned, you can attack some and not get hit by all of them.

If siege are flame rams, then sure you need them. But trebs? Catapults? Only if there’s a large number defending and a lesser number attacking, then probably because that would make facerubbing impractical. Flame rams down? Build more, or possibly switch to a catapult on the door. In most cases, you just needed to tank the damage and kept attacking the gate until you eventually broke in. This is addressed upon all objectives by the way, not just Hills, Bay, SM and the like.

Zoel.9154:

Heijincks.9267:

Zoel.9154:

Heijincks.9267:

Caliban.3176:

Again I see people saying that players needed tools to defend.

Could those people explain how all those guilds use to do it without those tools? There was no real difficulty in doing it.

There was no need for this change and it really did kitten up a lot of things. Overall attendance in WvW has gone down for my server and their opponents, easily seen through all the queues. (Though our dominance might have had something to do with that as well as our use of the Arrowcarts to spawncamp and farm)

Do you prefer it if WvW removed all walls, all gates, and all supply? That’s exactly why. Many people prefer it if WvW was played out like an actual war involving both siege and players, in which one cannot succeed without the other.

I guess you prefer it if it’s about just some gigantic gladiator arena.

Did you have problems using arrow carts pre patch? Arrow carts were overpowered before and did not need a buff; most people simply didn’t know how to use them. Now that they’ve been buffed by 80%, people use them more frequently because oh right, these things cost very little supply, are built like tanks, and 160 supply worth can do more aggregate damage than 100 players with 100% uptime.

You HAD to clear arrow carts against competent opponents pre-patch. The difference is that you could leave some up because the aggregate damage wasn’t enough such that you had to tediously outpace your opponents supply by a factor of 3.33 to 1 in order to beat carts.

Sieges of bay, hills, or garrison generally were at a minimum half hour to 45 minute affairs, which is a pretty reasonable time frame for a not-so-persistent battleground that resets from week to week. The three to four hour sieges currently required make the idea of doing that, well, unattractive. Hills has become the keep you take when the other server is asleep.

It’s just not worth waiting 2h to 3h for a fight when you can just go straight for someone’s spawn, their north camp, whatever, and just ignore PPT.

Overpowered before? Really? You’d probably have to stack a few of them together to make them most effective, otherwise the damage is simply ignored, or that the annoyance they provide doesn’t make them worthy of being a priority. Supply doesn’t always allow them to reach effective critical mass either.

To take something requires more supply to defend it. I think that’s true for all scenarios, even in real life. When you take the objective however, you become the defender, and whoever wants to take it thereafter must use more supply than you to take it if they want it, especially so if the objective wasn’t freshly taken. I don’t see this part as an issue.

…

I used to be into that, but there are better games to suit that need. Why not play Eve online?

Even if YOU want to spend 3 to 4 hours taking hills, chances are the other people on your server wont.

And yes, you did have to stack a few of them before to get an insane damage output. So…. we did. Now, we stack even more for more damage because it is the only defensive strategy worth using.

I’ll keep posting a video that shows how effective they were pre-patch, because they were.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny-_b5D9MUA

I’m not really sure what sort of strategy you think this is, though. The defense is always carts and trebuchets, the offense is always trebuchets. There isn’t exactly a higher level thought process that goes into this thing. Before you had to pick out the right time to take out your opponents offensive seige on foot, choose locations inside your keep to make a hold, or pick good times to go on supply runs.

Now, you just sit. And wait. Then wait some more. We’ve gone from chess to checkers.

I could play EVE. I could play any game I like. It doesn’t change my opinion on this matter though.

True, there are people who don’t like the longer process to take Hills or any other major objective. That’s their problem however, and not mine, same the other way around; my problem with their style of gameplay isn’t their problem either.

Also, your video showed how arrow carts are pretty much just ignored at critical mass. Critical mass of anything is strong, more so if they’re simply ignored. Does that make them OP? Not really, or else it would be the same as calling a 100 man zerg OP. That said, “OP” is really just subjective conjecture. Even if arrow carts were 1/5 the power pre-patch, you stack up enough of them, and they’ll still be killer.

Before, siege wasn’t really even needed to take anything down nor defend anything. You only needed numbers. Siege was simply a harassment tool unless you were willing to spend vast amounts of supply (not many were really inclined to do this), and now it isn’t.

Zoel.9154:

Heijincks.9267:

Caliban.3176:

Again I see people saying that players needed tools to defend.

Could those people explain how all those guilds use to do it without those tools? There was no real difficulty in doing it.

There was no need for this change and it really did kitten up a lot of things. Overall attendance in WvW has gone down for my server and their opponents, easily seen through all the queues. (Though our dominance might have had something to do with that as well as our use of the Arrowcarts to spawncamp and farm)

Do you prefer it if WvW removed all walls, all gates, and all supply? That’s exactly why. Many people prefer it if WvW was played out like an actual war involving both siege and players, in which one cannot succeed without the other.

I guess you prefer it if it’s about just some gigantic gladiator arena.

Did you have problems using arrow carts pre patch? Arrow carts were overpowered before and did not need a buff; most people simply didn’t know how to use them. Now that they’ve been buffed by 80%, people use them more frequently because oh right, these things cost very little supply, are built like tanks, and 160 supply worth can do more aggregate damage than 100 players with 100% uptime.

You HAD to clear arrow carts against competent opponents pre-patch. The difference is that you could leave some up because the aggregate damage wasn’t enough such that you had to tediously outpace your opponents supply by a factor of 3.33 to 1 in order to beat carts.

Sieges of bay, hills, or garrison generally were at a minimum half hour to 45 minute affairs, which is a pretty reasonable time frame for a not-so-persistent battleground that resets from week to week. The three to four hour sieges currently required make the idea of doing that, well, unattractive. Hills has become the keep you take when the other server is asleep.

It’s just not worth waiting 2h to 3h for a fight when you can just go straight for someone’s spawn, their north camp, whatever, and just ignore PPT.

Overpowered before? Really? You’d probably have to stack a few of them together to make them most effective, otherwise the damage is simply ignored, or that the annoyance they provide doesn’t make them worthy of being a priority. Supply doesn’t always allow them to reach effective critical mass either.

To take something requires more supply to defend it. I think that’s true for all scenarios, even in real life. When you take the objective however, you become the defender, and whoever wants to take it thereafter must use more supply than you to take it if they want it, especially so if the objective wasn’t freshly taken. I don’t see this part as an issue.

Regarding taking major objectives, I personally prefer the longer time it takes to get it. Not that I like manning siege, but because I do not think of it as practical taking it quickly considering that it is a major objective. It is more rewarding after taking it because it requires so much more planning and effort. Plus, it makes it more valuable to defend.

grifflyman.8102:

Azure Prower.8701:

grifflyman.8102:

Customers or not, the fact that World vs. World is balanced around a server having a full population at all times of the day and night is an absolute joke.

It’s not fun, and it end up being repetitive.

Did you know it is always day some where in the world?

Did you know it is always night somewhere in the word? What’s your point?

I don’t think you get it. When we (the North American players) play, we’re technically night capping the Eurasian players.

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

My statement was extremely straight forward. I don’t understand how people could still misinterpret it.

I don’t think I misinterpreted it.

You said that one step towards realism doesn’t mean anything else has to change to come closer to realism. (loose paraphrase) That is true. I agree with you (it happens).

I just say that even though what you say is true, it should never be an issue.
I was trying to say that the argument for realism when a player should die from an arrowcart holds no more value than saying that a player should die from a greatsword attack because that is realistic.

Both are steps towards realism but in a perspective for this game that is meaningless because they do not account for balance or many of the other things that are relevant in the game.

I haven’t made any statements about balance. All I said to begin this discussion was:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

That’s all I said. This was a response to someone saying that greatswords should instakill anyone, as if putting realism in this game means that it must exactly emulate real life.

You were part of a greater conversation were someone did indeed make a suggestion and tried supporting it with the realism argument. I was just adding to the conversation, it was no attack, and I did not try to put in any words in your mouth.

Someone said something concerning realism, someone else replied to that, you then posted about that post. I then added to that if you consider both your post and that by the second person it invalidates the support the first person tried to give his suggestion by saying it was realistic.

(this just got way more complicated than it should have)

I’m assuming the first poster was Tommyknocker when he said that rams should be immune (or at least resistant) to arrow cart damage since wood isn’t really hurt by arrows. It’s unlikely the second poster would reply to someone else especially when there is a disconnect between the initial post and the many posts before it.

Considering everything said so far, my statement wouldn’t necessarily invalidate support for his statement. Arrows don’t realistically hurt solid wood, thus making siege more resistant against arrow carts is technically a step towards realism.

Asides from that, arrow cart resistant siege is one thing most people here want anyway.

In that sense I don’t see why there is a need to counter the realism argument, in this case anyway. That’s another issue entirely though.

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

My statement was extremely straight forward. I don’t understand how people could still misinterpret it.

I don’t think I misinterpreted it.

You said that one step towards realism doesn’t mean anything else has to change to come closer to realism. (loose paraphrase) That is true. I agree with you (it happens).

I just say that even though what you say is true, it should never be an issue.
I was trying to say that the argument for realism when a player should die from an arrowcart holds no more value than saying that a player should die from a greatsword attack because that is realistic.

Both are steps towards realism but in a perspective for this game that is meaningless because they do not account for balance or many of the other things that are relevant in the game.

I haven’t made any statements about balance, or anything else that realism can affect in this game. All I said to begin this discussion was:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

That’s all I said. This was a response to someone saying that greatswords should instakill anyone, as if putting realism in this game means that it must exactly emulate real life.

Mizu.9387:

Heijincks.9267:

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Mizu.9387:

The problem with the “realism” argument is that everyone that is hit by my greatsword should expect to instantly die as well.

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

But it also doesn’t say what step toward realism is more valid than another. So basically you still have nothing. Realism has no place in this argument whatsoever.

Really? So you’re saying that getting hit by a greatsword should heal you could be a “valid step” toward realism? Geez, I wonder why people want arrow carts to fire projectiles not just an AoE. Or maybe how arrow carts shouldn’t damage flame rams so much as large wooden logs don’t realistically get hurt by arrows.

You might wanna look up guardian mace skills.
In all honesty, I don’t care at all about realism as long as it fits the game. I want a good and balanced competative game, not reality.
Chess does not reflect reality in anyway, but is entertaining (for some) because its an extremely balanced game with different strategies and methods of approach. Now what if you introduced a “tank” pice that could just whipe the board clean. Would that be fun?

Which is why I said:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

My statement was extremely straight forward. I don’t understand how people could still misinterpret it.

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Mizu.9387:

The problem with the “realism” argument is that everyone that is hit by my greatsword should expect to instantly die as well.

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

But it also doesn’t say what step toward realism is more valid than another. So basically you still have nothing. Realism has no place in this argument whatsoever.

Really? So you’re saying that getting hit by a greatsword should heal you could be a “valid step” toward realism? Geez, I wonder why people want arrow carts to fire projectiles not just an AoE. Or maybe how arrow carts shouldn’t damage flame rams so much as large wooden logs don’t realistically get hurt by arrows.

Mizu.9387:

The problem with the “realism” argument is that everyone that is hit by my greatsword should expect to instantly die as well.

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

Lance.5892:

Heijincks.9267:

Lance.5892:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of tier 1-2 guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff. They just aren’t being as vocal as us on forums. The reason why we are being vocal is because we feel that if we aren’t, and sit back passively, nothing will change whatsoever.

Perhaps gamebreaking is a biased term. It definitely is gamebreaking to me, my guild, and other skirmish guilds out there. But it is most definitely extremely game changing.

Any time you buff or nerf anything 80% base damage, that is game changing. I’m not even considering the arrow cart mastery traitline.

It definitely is a shaking change; there’s no denying that. It’s the reason why I understand why there is so much dissent. Humans have this psychological resistance to change, it’s innate and can’t be helped.

That said, I can’t tell anyone what they can like or dislike, so at best I can only voice my own opinion on the matter and why I have it. However, even amongst the greatest of dissenters, should they choose to stay, they all eventually adapt to it no matter how much they hated it at first.

It’s a general trend I’ve noticed. It even occurs at even greater scenarios such as the passing of a new law.

Thing is, for guilds that are focused on large scale pvp combat, there isn’t much pathway for us to adapt. There are a few factors why:
- It now takes an extreme amount of effort and time to get into said objective to have a fight over the objective for our pvp
-People on both sides are just dropping arrowcarts mid battle field to kill each other

To the first point, as we get bored and tired of trying to get into an objective to get our one big fight of the night (based on a few reports that it took 2.5+ hours to get into an objective) instead of several a night like before, more and more skirmish guilds will lose players to other games or IRL since they don’t play to sit and siege a keep for 2.5 hours for a 10 minute fight.

To the second point,
Obviously, it’s wvw, so there is siege. We can accept that. But, we as a pvp community aren’t here to fight siege. We’re here to fight people. That is the core of what pvp is.

There may be other points and reasons I haven’t stated, but that is why we see this as game breaking. Because the game for us is the larger scale skirmishes (from 10v10 up to 40v40). It is the reason that keeps us playing the game. Spvp does not accomodate it (anything higher than 10v10), and Arenanet won’t give us GvG. Thus, WvW has been our only option.

This is why many people see this as a bad patch. Because they won’t get their adrenaline filled fast paced fights as much as it used to be anymore.

And thus, my question is: where do we get our fights? Very few other games support a beautiful combat system that GW2 provides that allows for highly coordinated team fights on a large scale.

I honestly hate to simply say “too bad”. That said, WvW is still in the middle of a transition. New strategies might develop that may allow large scale fights without the interference of arrow carts. A well coordinated group away from objectives can spot ex situ arrow carts and destroy them before they’re even built for example.

Additionally, I don’t think WvW changes will stop at arrow carts. I don’t think Anet would want WvW to degenerate into a static siege warfare alone given that the former arrow carts were nerfed from their original strength.

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

No..im sorry you don’t need to adapt to something such as gathering gear…you either do fractals and dailies/ guild missions for the ascended gear or you don’t…you are not forced to obtain these items, on the other hand we ARE forced to adapt if we wish to play wvw.

Actually yes you do. A lot of players bought this game on the premise that they don’t need to grind for vertical progression. They had to adapt to that despite that getting ascended is a grind in their definition. Either that, or they quit the game. The third option is to resist and not get ascended for the sake of not getting it, which I don’t think anyone is doing so.

Sorry, but my argument sticks.

you just answered it yourself…they don’t “NEED” to grind it. we NEED to adapt to it…

Actually, if they think getting ascended is a grind, then if they want to get it, they’d have to grind for it. Since they think getting ascended is a grind to them, and they’re getting ascended, then it is to them a grind to get it.

Likewise, if you think arrow carts are gamebreaking, then if you want to continue playing WvW, you’d have to adapt to it. Since you think arrow carts are gamebreaking, but you continue to do so anyway, then you’ll be adapting to it, assuming Anet doesn’t revert back anything.

Get it?

Grind is a subjective term just like gamebreaking. Unless you’re going to tell me the word gamebreaking is not a subjective term, then you have no argument.

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

No..im sorry you don’t need to adapt to something such as gathering gear…you either do fractals and dailies/ guild missions for the ascended gear or you don’t…you are not forced to obtain these items, on the other hand we ARE forced to adapt if we wish to play wvw.

Actually yes you do. A lot of players bought this game on the premise that they don’t need to grind for vertical progression. They had to adapt to that despite that getting ascended is a grind in their definition. Either that, or they quit the game. The third option is to resist and not get ascended for the sake of not getting it, which I don’t think anyone is doing so.

Sorry, but my argument sticks.

Lance.5892:

Heijincks.9267:

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

Over the last few days, from many people I’ve talked to, there seems to be a vast majority of tier 1-2 guilds and wvw players who do dislike the arrowcart buff. They just aren’t being as vocal as us on forums. The reason why we are being vocal is because we feel that if we aren’t, and sit back passively, nothing will change whatsoever.

Perhaps gamebreaking is a biased term. It definitely is gamebreaking to me, my guild, and other skirmish guilds out there. But it is most definitely extremely game changing.

Any time you buff or nerf anything 80% base damage, that is game changing. I’m not even considering the arrow cart mastery traitline.

It definitely is a shaking change; there’s no denying that. It’s the reason why I understand why there is so much dissent. Humans have this psychological resistance to change, it’s innate and can’t be helped.

That said, I can’t tell anyone what they can like or dislike, so at best I can only voice my own opinion on the matter and why I have it. However, even amongst the greatest of dissenters, should they choose to stay, they all eventually adapt to it no matter how much they hated it at first, if no reversion was ever made.

It’s a general trend I’ve noticed. It even occurs at even greater scenarios such as the passing of a new law. Remember this post if Anet doesn’t ever revert back the arrow carts.

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Fatal.2815:

Devs were all over these forums before the patch ? Part of community requires some kind of response now and not a single word in 2 days ?

Mass sick leave ?

I’m guessing it’s because it’s overall safer to remain silent rather than going in, and being bombarded with questions from all directions, leading to false assumptions, thinking promises were made, and accusations of bias.

But it isn’t, by rejecting to address us or inform us on this player raised issue, they are only digging themselves a deeper hole, and the point of my post was the 1% increase was not game breaking, the arrow cart buff…IS. yes we could adapt..but why should we adapt because of a kitten up from Anet..

The new arrow carts are gamebreaking to you. It is not fact that it is gamebreaking. “Gamebreaking” is a subjective term.

Likewise, I can say the same for the anti-ascended. Why should they adapt as well? But they did. Same for small guilds.

Phunk.6103:

Heijincks.9267:

Jackie.1829:

Mif.3471:

Jackie.1829:

As my posts are within the terms of agreement, and those of other votf members such as lance and caliban,

Then on the other hand, there are the VoTF members that had a tantrum and vandalized this sub-forum with spam threads earlier today.

Stay classy VoTF

I endorse what they did as well. In fact, I was on comms laughing with them while they did it. We will do what we want with the forums until a developer responds. I am sorry I adversely effected your web browsing for the night. Except I couldnt care less.

You probably won’t get what you want. Ascended items? Thousands of anti-ascended posts, and Anet said “it’s gonna stay” despite the opposition. The issue with small guilds? Again, thousands of posts, but this time Anet didn’t even post in it.

My guess is that it’s going to be the same here, and the likelihood you’d get a dev response on this is even smaller given the near even proportions of pro and anti arrow carts.

More so, the OP arrow carts existed once before the last patch. It was during the beta weekends. The fact Anet rebuffed them shows that they’ve actually thought about the consequences it might have (because then why would they nerf them in the first place?).

Above all, for every single change related issue, every single time people adapted to it and people stop caring after a month or so, when the dissenters either left the game or adapted. The arrow cart issue won’t be any different.

So sorry. It’s unlikely WvW will go back to the way it was. It’s natural selection at work here. Adapt, or be gone.

Because Ascended items 1% overall increase was game breaking yes?

No it isn’t. I certainly don’t, but many people thought it was.

The point here isn’t to demonstrate what’s game breaking or not. It’s how Anet responds to player raised issues, and how they went to resolve them.

graverr.6473:

This patch is meant to kill small group(20 ppl) play only Rip outmanned servers

No, this patch killed uncoordinated groups. Big groups and small groups get decimated alike and equally proportional to the number of adversaries. By the way, ironically, small groups shined in this patch when it came to defending.

TacoJoe.6083:

I’m from a large server.

I run with a large group in WvWvW (zerg).

This patch will not stop us or any (properly lead) large group.

I feel bad for the servers who were already outmaned.

Large population = a lot of supply = a lot of ACs = improbable for smaller populations to overcome.

We are starting to insta-build field ACs.

In conclusion Large Group + Broken Mechanics = More Dead Smaller Group

Be careful what you wish for.

Not all large groups are zergs. Uncoordinated (or badly coordinated by a bad commander) large groups are zergs. In that sense, I haven’t seen any zergs lately, only large groups. Zergs get decimated which I’ve seen endless amounts of time since the patch.

This patch is not meant to stop large groups. It’s only meant to stop zergs, and from my perspective it’s quite effective at it.

Waffler.1257:

Heijincks.9267:

Kronyx.2570:

Only an idiot would rush a gate with rams or golems which has multiple arrow carts being manned.

QFT. Yesterday I was in an SoR rush to take Hills. 30+ golems. 5 arrow carts took almost all of them all down.

No one even bothered with the arrow carts. They just thought the golems were enough in number that they could bust down both gates before they all died. The element of surprise was also lost minutes before the attack. For the entire fight I was just facepalming my desk.

How do you face palm a desk?

Okay fine. Facedesking.

I suppose the previous meta wasn’t what Anet wanted WvW to be. For example, let’s take guild ownership.

The objectives get flipped so fast in the former meta that there’s literally no point in making one for your guild. If they buff siege up to the point that it’s impossible to quickly take an objective, and make each objective a fortress, then might there be some point in doing so.

In other words, it probably wasn’t Anet’s vision for fast flips. The previous meta was not what they wanted. They probably want WvW to be more like drawn out, perpetual warfare with more meaningful objectives. Yes, that probably will mean WvW will stagnate. That said, the new meta will separate the good commanders from the bad ones since tactics are forced. Also, having few defenders being able to hold off large numbers also depromotes nightcapping.

It’ll interesting to see how this will turn out. Right now it’s simply a matter of waiting for everyone to adjust, or waiting for those who are unwilling to adjust leave. I’m guessing that in the near future, objectives will be valuable enough that people won’t just go do something like “Drain all supplies from X and move to Y”.

manbearpig.8095:

so ~24 hours into this thread almost 1000 posts and yet not a work from anet devon please get here and say something or your gonna have a zerg outside the anet hq

Anet has a habit of not responding to “protest” threads. When ascended came out, same deal. Small guilds thing? Same deal. Probably not going to be any different with this.

If I were to guess, the diverse opinions on this subject matter will demand answers from Anet if a dev ever posts. I suppose it’s better to stay silent, not make any biased statements, or any promises.

If a dev says “We’ll take the opinions here into consideration”, it doesn’t answer any questions.

At least someone here chose not to do what they don’t like. Most other people will complain about hating doing dailies but yet still do them.

You can use gem store skins on sPvP items?

I’m probably in the minority. I actually liked the new changes, though I don’t play an elementalist nor an engineer so I can’t speak for those.

As for the arrow carts, it’s a nice change in pace in WvW. The old defend the base against a bunch of players bashing at a gate is fading (which I personally find a good thing), and the incorporation of arrow cart use in contemporary combat made it more dynamic thus more interesting. There’s more risk in an offensive, and it wasn’t like it used to be when you can easily take an objective given you have enough in numbers.

Most of the changes were positive. Few changes felt unnecessarily too much (eg. confusion, Ride the Lightning).

Unfortunately not much additional permanent content.

8/10

I believe the purpose this serves is for people who are staying at a keep to tell the server that the enemy is approaching, so by the time the enemy attacks, a defensive team can get to the keep immediately to defend instead of manually walking all the way due to the contested waypoint.

People are too used to “flowing” with the zerg and taking no initiative to defend until it is already under attack. The next logical step is to properly reward people keeping watch at keeps.

Only skills have an AoE limit of 5. While there should be a cap, 5 is definitely too small of one. 10 is more sufficient.

This is good and should have been here since the beginning. We don’t need anymore zerg promotion.

Arrow cart in open field combat? Just back away from it. Bam! Arrow cart useless and the other server wasted 100 supply on it. If the arrow cart is isolated enough a couple thieves can just flank and destroy them unhindered while the fight occurs at a nearby area.

Taking keeps will be harder with this, and to be honest, “Siege Wars 2” sounds a hell lot better than “Zerg Wars 2”. Opens up some space for some strategy, at last.

Asides from that, zerging is exactly what’s wrong with WvW.

The Eternal Grace.3157:

Ursan.7846:

The Eternal Grace.3157:

What I mean by “dying” simply this: Activity is decreasing. I don’t think really anyone can argue with that.

When your evidence of “decreasing activity” is completely anecdotal…

Yes, yes you can. And the entire discussion will be pointless.

It isn’t anecdotal at all when I have yet to hear someone in a guild that has less than 475 active members saying anything different, at least from my server, anyway.

It actually is anecdotal. My server, and my guild alike, are growing which contradicts your observations directly. You cannot base your explanations off opinions.

You also have to consider the guild members “quitting”, did they really quit, or did they just lose interest in the guild itself and left it?

The game certainly has its own set of problems, but in no way is the game dying at all. People were saying the game was dying all the way back since November, and as far as I can tell, population has only increased since then.

Protection mitigates most of the damage from boon hate anyway. Guardians practically have this up for half the fight. Plus there’s still aegis to consider.

Well, they went back on the thief revealed debuff last patch at the last minute so there’s some hoping that confusion won’t be nerfed.

Still a 50% reduction is far too excessive.

Lowering resolution helps too.

Khyber.2693:

God, how dumb are you guys? You dont see anything wrong with there being one viable gear type?

Actually, berserker gear is only truly effective in PvE. In WvW/sPvP, bunker builds destroy everything and it doesn’t involve berserker gear.

RNG for horizontal progression doesn’t hurt the game unless you make grinding your endgame.

Interesting. Your graphics card and CPU is stronger than mine, yet I experience none of what you do.

SirDrygan.1823:

I am talking about SAB not Frost and Flame. It does not fit in the context of the storyline. Frost and Flame fits into the lore, but not SAB.

Because every little square inch of the game must fit the lore, or else it’s a waste of time.

Just because you don’t like the content does not mean it’s a “waste of time”. As far as I know, moving a little out of the way with SAB is actually helping the game, not hurting it. As far as “wasting time and resources” is concerned, I don’t think it is given that the critical reception for SAB has been overwhelmingly positive.

Given that it’s a very small part of Anet staff working on SAB, I don’t see any reason why it shouldn’t be made. If you honestly think an extra 5 or so people out of 300 would make much of a difference in the actual game itself, then you’re obsessive, no doubt about it.

I don’t think anything actually changed with drop rates. The price of gold to gem conversion is at an all time high, which indicates that a lot of conversion is taking place right now.

Since the economy heavily revolves around Ectos, I’m not surprised that its price dropped due to this.

The combat’s fine for me. As a matter of fact, I rarely see anyone complaining about the combat. That actually says something about you OP.

In another post you wrote that TERA’s combat was better than GW2’s. Oh hell no.

Oh, and no to trinity either. It’s a tired out system.

dan matthews.2736:

your obviously new to the game. guild wars 2 is a grindfest. just wait til you hit 80. the developers lied and said it has no grind, “dynamic questing is so revolutionary” LOL. its the same thing as wow without talking to a person. at 80 there is no point to the game. they also said it would be a pvp game. LOL, you have all been conned hard. oh yea, they will delete this post soon. they do that when you dont like the game

Interesting. I’ve played since the first beta weekend. Haven’t hit the grind problems you outlined though.