Guild Wars 2

Reaper Alim.4176:

HipposWild.7185:

I just don’t understand how they’re still employing the same people…. they’ve had the same problems with negative progress for freaking years! That is complete nonsense

More then likely from upper management mismanagement of the funding of this game. I’ll be willing to be that upper management pocketed too much money to the point the Devs simple have a very limited funding to make progress on this game.

Nope…. See with no resources there would be no progress. They have the rare unicorn of consistent negative progress. Here’s the system.

Step 1: They don’t think through a new matchmaking algo, and release it just to update to pretend they’re working on this. This way they can pretend there will be growth incoming!
Step 2: People point out huge game breaking flaws in the system.
Step 3: They ignore, and eventually start deleting threads pointing out said flaws should they get too big even when in constructive manners.
Step 4: Halve population, while celebrating a job well done.

I just don’t understand how they’re still employing the same people…. they’ve had the same problems with negative progress for freaking years! That is complete nonsense

Fix your matchmaking! Stop deleting negative threads! People aren’t happier because they’re not seeing everyone who points out issues devs ignore. They’re wildly more disappointed. I was on tier seven of diamond for 3 hours today, and I just don’t understand how you can design a matchmaking algorithm so freaking badly after so many iterations and years. Every other game is like playing down at least one player…. I just played a game with a premade where a legend was trying to drag an amber right after a legend was dragging two sapphires… guess what? We lost both terribly because they’ve barely figured out what a keyboard is apparently, and they were tossed on a team vs a pre-made legend group!

The complete lack of progress this game makes is ridiculous. I don’t understand. If no one plays your game you make no money…. So why don’t you care? No one’s going to hire the team who tanked gw2…

There have been plenty of people every season pointing out piles of broken warped logic, and there’s virtually no response. Then when the problems come to fruition at best you’ll delete the threads. Great job guys!

Surprise! now we’ve got 8 minute queues followed by terrible matches…… Great job never listening to criticism I’m glad it’s worked so well for you

I just wanted to know if there’s any information on what percent of players actually do raids. My initial experience was sit LFG for around 2 hours play maybe 15 minutes, and realize 3 people are gone. My current system is wait 20 minutes in LFG, then decide to never play this game again.

This feels a whole lot like designing a whole FPS without adding guns.

SERIOUSLY every season is like this. They’ll pump unreasonable amounts of money into pro league tournaments for a few dozen people and just completely blow off actually improving the game. Honestly what kittenty MBA inspired this approach? How long has it been while your matchmaking system is still a joke made of wet garbage?

There is an insane room for improvement in the current matchmaking system. HOW IS IT STILL SO BAD AFTER ALL THIS TIME????

NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY AN EXPANSION FOR A GAME THEY STOPPED PLAYING!!!!!

Can someone please finally fix the bug with sand squall that puts it on a 30 second cool down instead of ten. It completely breaks the skill. Also elemental enchantment still adds back 2.5 seconds to your recharge time after overloading. Another game changing bug because the skill might as well not be there.

Salamander.2504:

HipposWild.7185:

Salamander.2504:

HipposWild.7185:

Salamander.2504:

SqualZell.7813:

….

Leagues are not a reward track. Not everyone is entitled to progress.

But you should at least be sure that the good players are the ones being rewarded. Last game I saw a pistol pistol thief winning by a landslide because he got tossed in the high MMR category. Do you think it was skill carrying him?

It must have been his skill carrying him, for him to make p/p thief work.

You’re logic is so determined to prove itself right it could be ANET’s spvp matchmaking algorithm…

I have an entire thread dedicated to determining what’s wrong with ANet’s matchmaking—I’m not defending anything. But yeah, if someone using a bad build is winning by a landslide, chances are they are just very skilled to compensate—your logic didn’t make sense to me.

That player was dead within 3 seconds of entering battle every time. It was like they were playing 4-manned. It just so happened that the other four team members were good enough to carry his dead weight. That is a staple of this season.

Salamander.2504:

HipposWild.7185:

Salamander.2504:

SqualZell.7813:

….

Leagues are not a reward track. Not everyone is entitled to progress.

But you should at least be sure that the good players are the ones being rewarded. Last game I saw a pistol pistol thief winning by a landslide because he got tossed in the high MMR category. Do you think it was skill carrying him?

It must have been his skill carrying him, for him to make p/p thief work.

You’re logic is so determined to prove itself right it could be ANET’s spvp matchmaking algorithm…

Salamander.2504:

SqualZell.7813:

….

Leagues are not a reward track. Not everyone is entitled to progress.

But you should at least be sure that the good players are the ones being rewarded. Last game I saw a pistol pistol thief winning by a landslide because he got tossed in the high MMR category. Do you think it was skill carrying him?

The system isn’t designed to reward good players…. it’s designed to group good players who carry a ton of bad players…. chances aren’t that you’re winning because of any skill. More like your performance is a negative binomial and you’re just waiting to get enough fake good players on your team to break your MMR.

The argument that people who are unhappy are the only people that talk is ridiculous. Did you even visit other games forums before assuming that? I looked at smite and lol because I considered the possibility of being wrong. Did you?

Additionally it’s not just the people who are having losing streaks who think it’s a bad system. You’ve realized that right? Maybe it’s easier to think people are a cesspool then consider the possibility that you’re somewhat lucky and not a keyboard god.

Pakkazull.6894:

Torafugu.1087:

Pakkazull.6894:

Torafugu.1087:

If doesn’t matter if there is no hard reset if the rating decays over time. There are several months between seasons.

Well, no, it’s one month.

Yes the difference between completely decayed and completely decayed, thanks for pointing it out.

I seriously doubt it decays completely in one month. And also, lol, you say it like you know for a fact that it does. Funny.

Well they announced that it gets reset…. so there’s that

THuGaNoMiX.5036:

The only response by a programmer in here just further proves that these guys are not very good at what they do.

The sheer willfully ignorant and arrogant feel of that response was a bit ridiculous on top of everything else. Not to mention these issues were immediately foreseen when they announced the new system. There is no good reason for this issue to exist.

StickerHappy.8052:

HipposWild.7185:

No I had a good streak followed by one game where it looked like two players just weren’t playing followed by some of the most aggravating games I’ve ever played including one where we 2v4ed far keeping it decapped for at least two minutes to look up and realize our other three team mates were not actually doing anything…. they were literally huddled up waiting for the other team to go off point I guess.

And people say Matchmaking its working. This is not even whining. These are facts that people experience.

Even when i was rolling a massive win streak I was kittened as hell about the system. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I mean when I was winning I was still fully aware that the reason for winning at this point doesn’t have to do with skill it has to do with: 1: you’ve been winning so you got tossed with other people who have been winning and tossed against people who probably weren’t. 2: You’ve managed not to lose by a significant enough margin that your MMR exceeded some poorly designed confidence interval and subsequently drops. Which actually means you haven’t hit a game where 4 of your team mates had massively inflated MMR skewing the systems interpretation of your odds of winning.
3: The dev team has not taken an intro stat class, and don’t understand what it actually means to be normally distributed or they wouldn’t keep kittening referencing it like a bunch of coked up toddlers.

With this system half the people in diamond this season are just going to be mini-trumps… Convinced it was their skill that brought them where they are and that they must be “the greatest you’ve ever seen”… all of a sudden for no reason.. all the while refusing to accept that the system is designed to pull a ton of people mistakenly up the ranks because MMR IS ESSENTIALLY MEANINGLESS IF YOU ARE TRYING TO TOSS ALL THE POSSIBLY GOOD PLAYERS ON THE SAME FREAKING TEAM WHILE HYPOTHESIS TESTING THOSE RESULTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No I had a good streak followed by one game where it looked like two players just weren’t playing followed by some of the most aggravating games I’ve ever played including one where we 2v4ed far keeping it decapped for at least two minutes to look up and realize our other three team mates were not actually doing anything…. they were literally huddled up waiting for the other team to go off point I guess.

Remember in season one when all those people were exploiting the system by tanking their mmr or picking up an amber player either on an alt account or just any amber who knew how to use map chat so they could get to legend without actual legend skill? What was ANET’s response? Yeah… Would it have been hard to respond to people asking for the tag along player to be assigned the same rank as the max team member? NO. Did it take till after the season? Sure why not. Did they even do a kittening thing to players who abused the system and made the whole first season meaningless? Ohh yeah of course not. They gave them shinnies.

It’s like when someone collapses your world economy.. and you give them a kitten load of money for it.

Too busy celebrating a successful first season to see if it was actually working I guess. Does anyone expect them to suddenly change this approach?

Cynz.9437:

Would you prefer to have guys stoming mesmer clones, zerging animal etc. in diamond/legend? Because that is what i saw last season due to moronic 50% algorithm.

That’s actually a lot more likely to happen this season assuming the player wasn’t exploiting his way up there. Not by a small margin either…. A very very LARGE margin.

MadVisions.4529:

???? this system is the competitive system we asked for, no idea why are ppl crying a river on forums about this particular addition. dont really know what the ‘0-15 lost gg anet’-people are ranked atm but the majority of the top players are #3+ already(where mm works as intended from my experience) so casuals getting matched with pros is really unlikely. if you are in amber and you lose 0-15 thats a big problem and indicates that you need more practice @the game and @the spec you are playing and you should do unrankeds for 3-4 days till better players climb so you have more chance to succeed.

Edit: this behaviour of the MM-system was predicted. things gonna settle naturally it’s just needs some time. after players spread out this mm gonna work wayyyy better than the previous one. WAY BETTER! basicly the case is that the ‘not-the-best’ part of the pvp community is suffering for the better future.

How is this a serious comment? First playing on a team will eliminate most of the mm-issues giving you a good comp by itself is a huge advantage so the idea that players who are “elite” typically playing on premades are ranked high is ridiculous. They were ranked high last season too, and if they were just abusing the system of inviting a lowbie to skew games or alt account players then they should probably have been excused from this season.

This system isn’t that likely to work in the long run either. Its going to falsely push a bunch of people all over the place mmr-wise leaving a ton of players with zero pips in diamond who will just quit because once they start losing they’ll just keep getting tossed in together and it’ll blow their minds that “they’re no longer able to carry the scrubs” because they absolutely were the ones being carried.

The player base which is already significantly diminished is going to shrink one more time because who wants to deal with the rage of being put on a bad team 30 times in a row? There is no long term viability for this plan. It was stated before the season started, but this whole system makes a mockery of elementary statistics.

Shadelang.3012:

HipposWild.7185:

Shadelang.3012:

shion.2084:

Buffalo Bruiser.3567:

if its “random”, then how is it possible that i have not been “randomly” placed on a team that wins? How is it that every game has been a destruction?

The reason you might be on a winning team is that your MMR is high. So you are matched with other high MMR’s. Since your team will have a high MMR it is statistically more likely you will be competing against lower MMR’s so your MMR will increase and you will in general stomp. So success will be rewarded by being placed in higher and higher MMR teams.

Now lets say you just create your PvP account an dyou are an excellent player. And lets say many others do as well and the majority of those haven’t PvP’d before. Your MMR’s will all be at the same level I assume. Right?

So excellent you will be likely to be teamed with suck teammates. Now you loose and your MMR goes down. So you will be teamed with other people who lost. And most of them were folks who’ve never PvP’d … so you’ll loose again and your MMR will go down, now you will be teamed with folks with even lower MMRs.

So basically unless I’m missing something, if you randomly draw people whom can actually play in your first few games your MMR will go up and it will continue to be easier for you in your division. If you randomly get some new players your MMR will go down and things will only be harder from there.

Eventually however anyone with a higher MMR than you will go outside of your range. And youl stop falling.

Again… you’re missing the problem! If you drop below average maybe for skill reasons or maybe because this system inherently creates a massive eruption of false positive predictions you’re only getting tossed with the worst players so your MMR wouldn’t necessarily reach an equilibrium. You’d eventually move on in terms of rank with a low MMR because you’re always on a losing team because you’re always with bad players. There is no logic to that system.

(Not really “again” you posted your previous reply AFTER the post your quoting here).

For the sake of argument after reading your previous post I stopped for a bit and attempted to piece the system together in my head. Here is the results I have reached.

Its largely going to be up to the human element here. If people are being forcefully partnered below there (actual) level. Then eventually their opponents will be people with lower MMR than what that person skill level SHOULD be at. Meaning that its likely that they will start to win matches due to the fact that they will outperform personally the other team.

So even if they say have a theoreticaly MMR of 600. And their team mates are between 550 and 650. If his ACTUALY skill level is at say.. 900. Then his impact on the match should be more and more significant. In the lower tiers a single good player can destroy multiple unskilled opponents. Even simply rotating properly can turn the game in his teams favor. Regardless of whether nor not the REST of his team is actually at kitten MMR skill level.

This is even more likely as the higher tier opponents get further and further away. Making it so that people that ARE higher MMR than him and likely those with bloated MMRs that are actually on or near his level.

I don’t think the MMR bloating is going to be as massive as you seem to think it is. Especially as the ability to lose pips and then tiers exists. Say I am a 800 MMR player. During the first match of my league I got partnered with someone whos SKILL level was at 1000. We win that match. Our MMR raises and we start a win streak.

Eventually I am going to hit a point where I am getting slaughtered by my opponents. I would guess this would start around ruby. As my MMR starts to rise artificially due to high level players around me my effectiveness in the match will steadily decrease. Just as the player that has had his MMR falling is becoming MORE effective in each match.

I am going to hit a point where I am dragging my team down so much we lose. Lowering my MMR. Its possible I will lose MULTIPLE matches. further lowering my MMR and causing me to lose pips. Causing me to be partnered with AND against weaker people. Don’t forget the current MMR takes the TIER and division you are in into account. So its not like rubies will be fighting ambers.

Its likely ill be stuck at the bottom of ruby. Until other ruby level players like the aforementioned player on the losing streak fill in the gaps left behind by the high tier players.

Your logic only works if the high tier players stay a relevant part of the low tier combat. But as they rise up there effect on the lower tiers will steadily dissapear. At that point the skill of the lower tier will start correct itself. As people with artifically low MMRs will start to dominate their opponents. Raising themselves back up since there now longer being held down by diamond/legendary quality players.

Atleast that is how the system seems to be designed.

I would like to make one more point as well. It makes ZERO sense for arena net to create a purposefully inaccurate system. They gain nothing from it. Infact they only stand to lose from it as far as I can tell.

Edit; even if your at the bottom of amber. Your opponents are still amber level players. If you can’t win matches against amber level players no matter WHAT your mmr or the MMR of your team mates happens to be. Then there is more than just your teams quality that is an issue.

Edit 2: Fixed some grammar issues >.< Im sure I missed more than what I got but I got the most obvious ones.

Well for starters I think the impact of one good player argument is very biased and not complete. How many 4v5’s do you win? The impact of one bad player can be significantly worse than the impact of one legendary player. I successfully 2v1ed finished both opponents on a held point in two separate games today. We still lost one of them by 200 points, and the other we won by around 5….

I think a core place we’re disagreeing that isn’t being spoken is that theoretically if both teams are relatively similar skill wise the impact of one player who is better than or worse than average would be significant. Unfortunately if you stack all the potentially good players on a team against all potentially worse players and there is a noticeable gap(which i believe is supported by the insanely lopsided matches) then the personal skill of one player isn’t really going to make a difference and their MMR won’t really balance.

The big issues with this system is that for players of the same skill level there will be insane variance in their placement ranges. Players are going to get frustrated and quit at some point. If their MMR is artificially high they’ll bump to a division they shouldn’t be at and go on a very bad losing streak. They’ll probably get to a level of rage way worse then their low friends because they thought they were legendary players…..

Shadelang.3012:

shion.2084:

Buffalo Bruiser.3567:

if its “random”, then how is it possible that i have not been “randomly” placed on a team that wins? How is it that every game has been a destruction?

The reason you might be on a winning team is that your MMR is high. So you are matched with other high MMR’s. Since your team will have a high MMR it is statistically more likely you will be competing against lower MMR’s so your MMR will increase and you will in general stomp. So success will be rewarded by being placed in higher and higher MMR teams.

Now lets say you just create your PvP account an dyou are an excellent player. And lets say many others do as well and the majority of those haven’t PvP’d before. Your MMR’s will all be at the same level I assume. Right?

So excellent you will be likely to be teamed with suck teammates. Now you loose and your MMR goes down. So you will be teamed with other people who lost. And most of them were folks who’ve never PvP’d … so you’ll loose again and your MMR will go down, now you will be teamed with folks with even lower MMRs.

So basically unless I’m missing something, if you randomly draw people whom can actually play in your first few games your MMR will go up and it will continue to be easier for you in your division. If you randomly get some new players your MMR will go down and things will only be harder from there.

Eventually however anyone with a higher MMR than you will go outside of your range. And youl stop falling.

Again… you’re missing the problem! If you drop below average maybe for skill reasons or maybe because this system inherently creates a massive eruption of false positive predictions you’re only getting tossed with the worst players so your MMR wouldn’t necessarily reach an equilibrium. You’d eventually move on in terms of rank with a low MMR because you’re always on a losing team because you’re always with bad players. There is no logic to that system.

Shadelang.3012:

Hippo I feel like the one with the flawed logic is you. It feels like you created a conclusion and have since only looked at the information that feels relevant to you. Id ask you to look at the whole picture. However you seem determined to hate the current setup.

There is no reason for this system to not work. But it will take TIME till it sorts itself out.

There IS no focus on CREATING one sided matches. The one sided matches are a byproduct of the system getting data. The more data it has. The more accurate it will become.

I feel that you don’t have a basic understanding of how statistics work. If you don’t feel that the system is designed to create one sided matches then you’re beyond help and reasoning. The “data” you refer to seems to be proving that it does produce one sided matches because… that’s what it is designed to do!

TIME isn’t going to put people with falsely inflated MMR and therefore Rank back down in rank. They will just eventually quit because they’re not getting tossed in matches wildly in their favor and can’t cope with the possibility it was never their skill in the first place. In TIME they might wind up on the never win side in legendary, but is that really the goal here?

I’m determined to believe this game has an insane amount of potential. The rest of my thoughts aren’t so emotionally bound.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Buffalo Bruiser.3567:

if its “random”, then how is it possible that i have not been “randomly” placed on a team that wins? How is it that every game has been a destruction?

Because it’s not completely random; you can’t rely on luck to land on a team that’s awesome and get carried. You get placed on your team by MMR, and then your opponent is picked at random from any team in the division.

So if the average division MMR is 1200 and you are an 800 MMR player with an 800 MMR team, you are statistically unlikely to win your matches until those 1200 MMR players get to a higher division. Over time, as all of the higher MMR players leave the lower divisions, you will end up with balanced matches against players of your own skill level.

YOUR MMR IS MEANINGLESS IF THE FOUNDATION FOR THE CALCULATION IS BASED ON GAMES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ENTIRELY ONE SIDED.

By your flawed logic. If you’re MMR is a 1200, but your skill is a 600. You’re going to be placed with some people of skill 1200 and play against 5 people of skill 800 and prove that you really belong in that 1200 bracket… because that’s not how math has ever worked in the history of time.

Shadelang.3012:

The reason for this has been explained in a dozen threads now. The general consensus is let the kitten league sort out. We KNEW this is what would happen. Nearly every PvPer that asked for exactly for this system knew this would happen. The issue is alot of those people didn’t realize where there skill level actually was. Now that were being partnered by tier instead of by Win/Loss ratio people are getting harsh wakeup calls.

Let the max tier people get where they need to go. It won’t take the much longer to spread out. But making rage posts cussing out Anet for giving us EXACTLY what the vocal portion of our community asked for is not exactly bright…nor is it fair to Arenanet.

You know those “max tier” players aren’t the only one’s shooting up right? It’s going to be a handful of those players and a handful of random players with a bunch of those “max tier” players stuck on kittenty teams at the bottom. The system is just going to massively and quickly increase the variance of misplaced people. It’s almost like it was designed with that in mind.

Stormy Dragon.9210:

Laraley.7695:

I’m not sure what gw2 is trying to create, but with every pvp season it gets worse and worse.

To be honest, it’s what happens when people without a statistics background take a cookie-cutter statistics algorithm they don’t fully understand and try to apply it in a way that seems superficially similar to its intended use, but which actually violates a number of its assumptions.

YESSSS the devs linked a normal distribution in a post and I wanted to scream!!!!!!!! Part of me thought surely the comment must be a joke.. but there was just no way.

Jelzouki.4128:

I have solo q’d about 16 matches into PvP season 2 and I have won every single one by a blowout. The amount of people on these forums who are complaining at the start of the season are absolutely terrible because I am getting paired with nothing but terrible teammates and opponents. Carrying the team is easy when your opponents are double capping points and ignoring far completely (while staggered from deaths). It’s really funny to actually see how many bad players are on these forums. It’s really hard to tell when I will actually start losing.

If you mean to tell me that you genuinely believe you carried 16 games and that were all blowouts and that was all you then you might want to consider running for president. I’ve had mostly wins this season basically I’ve gone on a streak until i take a break or run in to a 4 or 5 man premade and my streak stops. It’s mildly fun winning by 400 points, but honestly just barely. Even in the games I 2v1ed and finished the other players I wouldn’t say a complete blow out was my carry. That’d be ridiculous.

Oh Snapalope.1378:

The thing with this system is it will balance out in the end. At a certain time the lower MMR players will face eachother because they are the only people within the pip/division search range. HOWEVER this might take a decent chunk of time to balance out. If it takes too long to calibrate everyone, then this system is totally not worth it because you will spend way too much time playing garbage quality games.

I still prefer a balanced team vs balanced team setup over this current setup.

That’s not accurate. There’s going to be wayyyy too much variance among players with the same skill level to make that claim. The system isn’t necessarily going to move good people up and it’s there’s not even good probability of it moving the best players up to the high tier. It’s going to place people. That’s really all you can say.

I think the thing that enrages me the most about this season is that it is like a slap in the face to statistics and math in general. It is genuinely insulting the lack of background they feel they need.

If you’re going to get tossed into a losing streak regardless of fault you’re going to be placed on a team expected to lose probably by a significant margin. In that situation you’re really not going to be able to pull your mmr back up as one of a five man team.

This season isn’t going to have any remote thing to do with skill. If you feel elite because you got tossed on the expected to win team probably because you raced in the season as mmr deflates based on breaks supposedly all I can say is your mom was right you really are the most handsome, intelligent person in the whole world. Believe what you want to believe.

They suggested this insanely clearly terrible idea, and plenty of people said “that’s insane…”. I don’t understand why these dev’s are making these blatantly terrible implementations. Either they are genuinely trying to destroy the game, or they have virtually no foresight and understanding of basic statistical concepts.

If you thought last season was grinding to win this is going to be way worse. They’re going to stack all the high mmr players with the high pip players and they’ll just keep winning. Come in with significantly less games and you’re going to finally quit this game.

Its because they’re stacking everyone they think to be good on one team. That way if you lose initially your mmr will tank and you’ll have a very hard time ever getting back on to the higher mmr team. It’s a very very very bad plan. Unless you get lucky and wind up on the winning high mmr side which at this point for a solo que player wouldnt require skill so much as getting on the good team to start a few times.

The system is essentially designed to prove an initial guess of your placement correctly despite the fact the prediction is incredibly unlikely to be accurate. Solo que players are going to see a complete kitten show this season.

Evan Lesh.3295:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Fluffball.8307:

Just out of curiosity is it a median mode or a mean?

Edit: math terms.

It is the mean. The player base distributes into a bell curve like such:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation

We place people right in the middle.

Why dont these numbers relate-able to League rank distribution?

There are way to many legends to fairly say That it’s also on a bell curve.

The league is more like half a bell curve because everyone starts at the beginning and don’t all play the entire season. The lack of backwards progress in the divisions also changes the distribution.

Is this serious?

First, what you’re describing isn’t “half a bell curve” and if it was it’d be called a skewed bell curve which again it isn’t really. Second, bell curves really only provide value if you have homogeneous examples to compare. You in no way have that. You built a rock paper dynamite game based around a factor(character class) you supposedly don’t include in your matchmaking algorithms. Any subsequent data ignoring that is about as valuable as randomly generating values. Yeah you could fit data to any distribution. Yeah that’s not going to make it meaningful.

You’re assigning a value to an account that has all kinds of sub-variance because you’re trying to put a series of DISTRIBUTIONS on a bell curve and say “hey person at the 98th percentile just got smashed by person at the 2 percentile that doesn’t make sense lets move them closer”. That really doesn’t make sense at all since they’re generally not comparable especially on individual levels.

Basically what you’re algorithm actually seems to do is say “hey this guy went on a winning streak lets balance him/her out with players who haven’t”. Great work. Pop the champagne. Though maybe he didn’t break a t-variable confidence interval subsequently requiring change not because of his personal skill but because you don’t have remotely homogeneous examples. Sure, a set number of players will go up and down but that doesn’t mean those are the players that should be moving generally unless substantially obvious.

What you need is something with a lot of binomial trees that will break out the non homogeneous situations significantly better. Using any kind of bell curve to pull confidence intervals off of multiple distributions isn’t likely to provide valuable data. You could throw said data at some sort of boosted learning algorithm and it will likely lower the score variances which at this point are absurd.

What I’m trying to say is it’s kind of like graphing car and house prices together and saying hey this Ferrari is about average priced. Makes no sense right? Treating it like a middle of the pack car is going to mess up future predictions.

There’s no way they’re trying to make this game fun.

I don’t believe for a second that they have actual statistically sound evidence that it is not a significant factor. I honestly am at a point where I’m starting to doubt they have any data whatsoever.

Boom third time in a row crashing on Auric Basin last ten minutes of meta in a full map… This game just doesn’t actually work.

The best part is how about 50% of the time you spend 1-3 hours on a map working towards the meta event you just wind up getting dced or client crash at some point in the last 10 minutes. This alone would make the expansion a complete failure. Who’s gonna put over an hour into a meta when there’s a good chance they’ll get booted for no reason and get virtually no progress? The 6 people still playing…..

Just give ele reasonable starting health and toughness it is an easy fix. A long term fix would involve evening out cool downs and completely reworking elites. Balance doesn’t need to be nuke or .1% change.

Honestly it’s a passive that is better than the current best ele elite……

If they’re all multi accounts for the same people I’d say give them less for making a mockery of the season. If they’re legit then yeah that’s pretty bad.

bbennett.7463:

Its unranked……..So there is obviously more casual players who arent MLG pro at pvp. just enjoy the game m8

Unranked was not nearly this bad a few weeks ago.

Chaith.8256:

Dragonhunters were nerfed to balance it better at lower divisions, at high divisions, Dragonhunters are just worse & slightly different Revenants/Scrappers.

Cry nerf but it’d probably be bad to change DH for the worse, ever. If anything, buff them with some mechanic to heighten how good they can be if they master a really difficult/skillful mechanic.

Revenants and scrappers are all about using your attacks at the best possible moment. There’s room to learn and improve. Because of that people can actually get good at them. It wouldn’t make sense to have a class you can pick up in an hour and destroy players on a class that took weeks or longer to master. I don’t get who would want that. The whole current design of dragon hunter feels half-effort which is why it’s so low skill cap and it shouldn’t just have nuke level damage with double trap bs to compensate. That’s just bad game design.

The games have gotten completely insanely imbalanced. I expected that after switching to unranked but they’re getting progressively worse overall. Its insane how bad these matches are. Every game feels like a 4v5. I haven’t had gone a game yet where I haven’t had to check in disbelief that everyone is playing whether it be my team or the other. Is this experience unique to me? Because if this is a new design aspect that’d be more insane then the “balance” patch.

How did something that was designed to be un-blockable un-dodgeable spammed cc ever get created? Like who thought that was a good idea and then added completely insane levels of boons and damage on top of that? Honestly I’d like to know what the logic behind that was? Did someone really think to themselves “well some of the other classes aren’t easy enough to play we should make one class that is just a nuke with unavoidable insane levels of cc”?

Shovel Face.4512:

HipposWild.7185:

That is not at all what happened. They just swapped who’s insanely op. I don’t play mesmer but them and ele might add well get deleted. Which is not balance.

Ur kidding right? Everyone was so use to broken Mesmer class that now since they actually have to try and play with skill they are mad they can’t be the “OP class.” As far as I’m concerned, this is balance. Having Ele and Mes being virtually unkillable is not balance. Having a Rev condi you to death by simply standing next to you is not balance. Have 2 classes virtually unplayable is not balance. Having all classes now required to have skill to play IS BALANCE.

Are you the one who is kidding? Thief is going to two hit mesmer and ele to death. That’s not skill in the remotest sense. They’re not close to on Par anymore ele can go full fresh air nuke and hope no one sees them because otherwise they’re already dead. Mesmer hasn’t been broken that long and honestly they could have tweaked it back to life but instead they proved once again that is not their goal. Seriously what skill is required to play a warrior? Mash all the buttons as soon as they’re available? Or a thief now? Sneak in and land two or three crits then run like a your life depends on it. The class desperately needed survival sooo they gave them damage.. why not?

That is not at all what happened. They just swapped who’s insanely op. I don’t play mesmer but them and ele might add well get deleted. Which is not balance.

This game is being run like a bad corporation in a board meeting. “We need some bs to convince stock evaluators that our income is going to increase over time so our stock price will be better.” “Ok we’ll make huge drastic changes. They don’t need to be good we’ll just tell people they are. That’s like the same thing as increasing your actual quality from a book balancing perspective.” Just manipulate your discounting factors like the rest of corporate America.

There is virtually no plan here.

Valkyriez.6578:

An apology isn’t necessary or even warranted. What is this, grade 3 at school? Leagues have been a success by any measure due to the amount of people playing them. I get sub 5 minute ques in off peak hours. Some class balance could be better, but it’s not gamebreaking at all.

So wait…. your personal queue times ate the evidence of a successful game? That’s great news! I’m gonna make a game designed around good queue times specifically for you so I can be an accomplished developer. Whew I’m pumped to be a success.

Lol love your confidence intervals

EgyptRaider.3946:

HipposWild.7185:

EgyptRaider.3946:

Shirlias.8104:

EgyptRaider.3946:

The last thing Anet needs to do is apologize to ego’s who demand that the game is designed around their own wishes and fears to be confronted with the fact that maybe competitive games aren’t about progress all the time.

I’ve been pvp’ing for a very long, I consider myself casually good and have not been able to get out of emerald.
Big deal. You win some, you lose some. Maybe you should try to concentrate your frustrations on things that actually matter in life… It’s a game for god’s sake. Why people can take this so high is beyond me.

Not running a ptr, nor asking players for balance tips.
Also, releasing a game without testing pvp and started the first season without checking both matchmaking and balance… i know it’s a game man, but still they should read and watch what they gave.

And what about s2?
I am kinda worried about, cause they are not asking for help.

Certainly I would agree with you here.
I’m mostly voicing against the OP and his hard, way too ridiculous, post demanding an apology… That sort of attitude is just plainly rude, egocentric and not necessary at all.

If I sold you a table and it showed up with three legs you’d have a right to be angry with me right? Especially if I spent months telling you how awesome your table is going to be right? They sold a product not as described and genuinely incomplete so yes people have a right to be angry. I think it’s more arrogant to show no remorse or responsibility for your actions.

Cept for the fact that the whole league system was part of a later patch; not the main content of HoT; Stronghold was. The comparison between a random defect table and a mmo game that is constantly updated and changed through the internet is wrong in so many places that it’s useless to make it in the first place.

Is it constantly updated? Because they promised constant balance updates which haven’t happened. They promised a new borderlands with the expansion which hasn’t come yet and likely won’t even be complete when pushed based on their history. Maybe you’re right. This is more like you had a table and I offered you a better one. So you paid me money got excited and I smashed your old table to pieces before giving you an incomplete broken version of what I promised.

EgyptRaider.3946:

Shirlias.8104:

EgyptRaider.3946:

The last thing Anet needs to do is apologize to ego’s who demand that the game is designed around their own wishes and fears to be confronted with the fact that maybe competitive games aren’t about progress all the time.

I’ve been pvp’ing for a very long, I consider myself casually good and have not been able to get out of emerald.
Big deal. You win some, you lose some. Maybe you should try to concentrate your frustrations on things that actually matter in life… It’s a game for god’s sake. Why people can take this so high is beyond me.

Not running a ptr, nor asking players for balance tips.
Also, releasing a game without testing pvp and started the first season without checking both matchmaking and balance… i know it’s a game man, but still they should read and watch what they gave.

And what about s2?
I am kinda worried about, cause they are not asking for help.

Certainly I would agree with you here.
I’m mostly voicing against the OP and his hard, way too ridiculous, post demanding an apology… That sort of attitude is just plainly rude, egocentric and not necessary at all.

If I sold you a table and it showed up with three legs you’d have a right to be angry with me right? Especially if I spent months telling you how awesome your table is going to be right? They sold a product not as described and genuinely incomplete so yes people have a right to be angry. I think it’s more arrogant to show no remorse or responsibility for your actions.