Guild Wars 2

I am having a bit of a problem here – I can’t seem to buy the HOT expansion. In my account I have a buy button for it, but when I click this it takes me to shop for Path of Fire. There I can buy the two as a bundle, but at the moment I don’t wan’t to buy POF at all (I don’t really believe in purchasing content before it is out, and for GW 2 specifically I’d rather wait for a sale).

So is there any way to buy just HOT.. or is this because it will become free as the new expansion is released like they told us during the last expansion release?

Orochimaru.4730:

One character slot only if we pre-purchase before launch.

Sorry still not good enough, the price need to be lowered! HoT still does not have enough content to justify the $50!!!

well it should just run as long as the new players are getting their ‘free bonus’

see, that wasn’t too hard, a free bonus worth 10$ balances out a free bonus worth 10$
gj to everyone, and have fun
(i will still wait for it to actually release, but that’s just my business ;d)

still this never should have happened, hope some people have learnt to keep their hands to themselves

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

1) it’s still not the same thing because everyone has a chance to get the discount; here vets are simply denied the bonus

And would you be happy if you got a character slot instead?

on one hand i don’t think i can accurately judge what would be an equal value of the bonus, so the most obvious thing for me would be to have everyone receive said bonus: one code for hot + one code for core game, to do with as we please

on the other hand since the game has dropped as low as 10 euros, the equivalent in gems would also be suitable, because that way everyone would have a choice what to use them for

as for you are other point:

the two things are different because in the “first of X” type of thing everyone can participate, and be the first of X;
here it is over before it starts, we already bought so we are screwed

..i screwed up the quotes somehow.. oh well

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, everyone does not get a discount. For the promotions for ‘first ’x’ number through the door’ if you’re x+1, you don’t get the promotion. Additionally, once stock is gone, the promotion/discount is over. If you’re stock+1, you’re kitten out of luck. You can’t get a raincheck that you can come back and cash in later. You might be able to go to a different store and snag what you’re after, but it may not be the same discount or promotion at store B as it was at store A. Companies (especially around here) also love their “1 hour only” sales. If you shop early, or come in after that specified time frame, well oh well for you. This is no different.

1) it’s still not the same thing because everyone has a chance to get the discount; here vets are simply denied the bonus

2) i didn’t know that about black Friday, i live in europe, i think that this practice sucks too, but not as bad as what anet is doing

Leo G.4501:

KGS.9842:

here’s the perspective: two different groups of people buy the same product for the same price in the same time period, one group arbitrarily receives a bonus on their purchase; the other does not

we are paying for this, and trying to defend out rights as customers, people should get the same value for their money regardless of their background; it is a question of principle

Business services do it all the time. I got my gym membership for $0 and pay $20 every month for a year a few years back but eventually discontinued service as my job took me away from such a routine for extended periods of time. I come back, it cost $25 to get a membership and $25 a month with a 9 month contract. A few weeks ago, they offered promotional memberships with no membership fee and a $25 per month fee with no contract.

The thing about being a consumer is, you have the power to not pay something you don’t find fair but it’s also the producers’ right to charge what they feel the product is worth. Don’t pretend you’re standing up for consumer rights because the deal being offered isn’t unfair. And remember, there is a difference between being unfair and being too much.

your analogy is invalid, i bolded a part of my previous response you have obviously missed

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Ugh, its just a promotional gimmick. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s no different than black friday sales where the first ‘x’ number of customers get ‘y’ where ‘y’ is an additional discount or a free item or what have you. In this particular instance the promotion is simply ‘get the core game free if you don’t current have an account.’ Would you people honestly be placated if they substituted a character slot for those that already have an account? I’m sure some of you would, but I guarantee there would be others that wouldn’t. It becomes a lose-lose scenario for anet.

no it’s not the same
on black friday everyone gets a discount
here only new players get a bonus

i will be “placated” if they make the offer the same for everyone

sinican.9250:

Anet thinks you all are morons, that is why the price is $50 USD. Are you all morons?

I wouldn’t go so far as to call people morons, but some visibly have trouble utilizing logic, and avoiding fallacies

so what, if they had tried to throw some dust in my eyes, I wouldn’t have protested that I’m getting scammed… nope

Vayne.8563:

Except they they’ve been selling that game for $10 multiple times already, so OP, how did you feel that thousands of people (probably more) bought it for $10?

well i’d love to address that:
those are two separate things –
let’s say there was a sale that lasted a weekend and the game was 10 bucks then (as we know there were several), this is all perfectly fine, because anet can price their product however they want
and above all everyone who paid the 10 bucks got the same thing

and now we have this thing
the price is still the same for both groups, the time period is still the same for both groups (unlike the discount sale example)
however some people who pay the 50 bucks get a different products in return

since we are comparing this to wow for some reason, let’s see how they are selling their expansions:

can you buy the expansion separately → yes
can you buy everything up to the last expansion separately → yes
can you buy it as a bundle → i don’t know, and it doesn’t really matter

is everything up to the last expansion sold at a big discount → yes
is that fine → yes, it is natural for older content to be cheaper
are you forced to buy some kind of bundle → no
do you get exactly the product that is advertised for each purchase → yes
do some buyers buy the same product for the same price as others, but arbitrarily get a free bonus → no

how big the difference in value is isn’t the problem
the problem is that it exists at all, every buyer should be treated equally and that’s that

(and before someone but muh sales, muh promotions – this thing is neither, because people pay for the same product in the same time period and get different value in return)

as far as I heard there will be a free for all pvp in the new guild halls, and I think it will be fun
not sure i’ll ever see it, but still your wish is already granted

Furious.2867:

I’ve read people complain about supporting the game for 3 years and how it’s unfair for them to buy again. That logic is so flawed because it dismissed all the content they’ve enjoyed that new buyers will never experience.

actually your logic is flawed because we have already paid for that content, that was the deal that we took to begin with. Anet does not owe us anything in terms of content, and we don’t owe them anything as well
however every buyer has the right to be treated equally, regardless of past purchases, precisely because they have no bearing on the current situation

Furious.2867:

Unless you are Blizzard, the MMO business isn’t as profitable as you believe. Scammy free download mobile gaming apps make more than large developers

well anet have certainly adopted the scammy bit

waaait a second
“As a structure the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there”
-Ree Soesbee, game designer

did they actually fix that somehow without me noticing, I must have been busy in a zerg somewhere

Straylight.7529:

No, it’s not discrimination. The new player gets free stuff as an incentive to join a game that has already been running for three years. In my opinion that’s a good thing. You feel like you should receive more for already owning the game. Arenanet obviously doesn’t share that feeling. Nor do I.

no I don’t feel i should receive more
I should receive the same thing as the new player, because we are both conducting the same transaction with a-net. It shouldn’t matter whether I already have the game or not

and allow me to remind you

Yes, that is correct. You get less value than the new players. But since you’re not a new player it shouldn’t concern you in the first place. Don’t think so hard about what “other people” get. Just ask yourself whether HoT is worth your money or not.

matrix seishin.5312:

Everything that can be said, has been said. The question now is: should we stop posting the same things over and over? I think so. They obviously made a mistake. They can’t change anything this soon. They’re just playing it cool. They still make money off of this… for now. When the money stops, then they will change something.

the more people that voice their concern, the more likely is that the situation will be resolved (also the more media coverage)
otherwise they might think “well, glad this is over” and just go on about their (shady) business like nothing happened

Straylight.7529:

KGS.9842:

Straylight.7529:

Yes, that is correct. You get less value than the new players. But since you’re not a new player it shouldn’t concern you in the first place. Don’t think so hard about what “other people” get. Just ask yourself whether HoT is worth your money or not.

it actually concerns me (us) because both me and the new player are paying the same price for the same product in the same time period; that is simply put discrimination

You’re not being discriminated, jeez…
Yes, everyone gets treated the same way. Just like you said. You’re nothing special for already owning the game.

ok so a new player gets a free bonus, and i get nothing for the same purchase
and that’s not discrimination?
if everyone got treated the same way, with my purchase I would have one key for HoT + one key for the core game

SleepingDragon.1596:

First time in history of GW that I’ve failed to get a head start… and I’m not going to regret anything since I’ll be on the sidelines until ANet/NCSoft figures out how to treat all players equally. It makes no difference if I’m new or existing players. If the company you’re supporting only cares for one type of customers, then why should you support them?

also funny thing is, once you buy the game, you stop being a “new player”, so come next release it’s your turn to be screwed (along with everyone else)
people should ask themselves whether they want to be customers of a company that treats their user base like they are second rate

Straylight.7529:

Yes, that is correct. You get less value than the new players. But since you’re not a new player it shouldn’t concern you in the first place. Don’t think so hard about what “other people” get. Just ask yourself whether HoT is worth your money or not.

it actually concerns me (us) because both me and the new player are paying the same price for the same product in the same time period; that is simply put discrimination

RabbitUp.8294:

We noticed our playerbase is concerningly white-dominated. With the launch of our new expansion, Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns, we figured this is the proper time to remedy that.

Our expansion is priced at $50. However, if you a part of an ethnic minority, you will also get a complimentary gift: the award-winning Guild Wars 2 core game. That’s right, 2 games for the price of one for all PoC out there. Because, a diverse community is a happy community.

For those out there that might raise the topic of discrimination, don’t be hatuurs, and check your privileges.

you should have switched the races, some people might get upset now :P

but guess what- that’s exactly what’s happening, they arbitrarily pick a group of users and give them a bonus, while the others “get what they pay for”
so apparently my money is not worth as much, strange, other companies will be happy to have it

Jongi.7612:

Except you are getting what you paid for. Your paying for HoT, so your getting HoT.

yes, and others are paying the same price, and getting more than me, just because i happen to have the game already

real fair

well good luck mate, i know i will log on some time to try out the new stuff available in vanilla after the expansion is out
(i won’t be paying for it as it stands now)

also @Feirlista Xv, I kinda think it’s impossible for him to regret his decision since he keeps his account forever, the price might actually drop (it will certainly drop for sure given enough time), and then he might come to be thankful for his decision

DaveyC.4398:

The first thing to consider is that as a core GW2 player – You brought the game. Most people will have hand countless hours enjoying the existing content and are owed nothing else on top of that.

indeed I am not owed anything because I bought the game previously, I paid for it, and got what i paid for

however everyone is owed the same treatment in regards to the current purchase. regardless of whether they have the game or not
if there is a “free bonus” everyone should get it

indeed, when given the choice to be scammed or not to be scammed, I choose not to be scammed

and i post in the forums for two reasons:
1. I want to help other players not be scammed
2. I try to prevent what is happening, because if it goes down as it is now, it will set a precedent and anet/ncsoft/whoever will try to pull it again; then the new players who are receiving the bonus now will be scammed in turn (if they have to pay for base+hot+2nd expansion, and just get the second expansion)

Jongi.7612:

im saying special treatment is another word for entitlement.

you better get a dictionary then

Jongi.7612:

But lets see, special treatment. Theres another word for it.

yes, it’s discrimination

Jongi.7612:

Why exactly do some of the veteran players think ANet owes you anything? I see a lot of vet players understand that nothing is owed to them, but the vocal majority of vets here on the forums think something is owed to them.

they owe every customer the same treatment, regardless of whether they have purchased the game previously

Jongi.7612:

The expansion is $50 bucks, end of story. If you dont already have GW2 and you buy HoT you get it for free. Its so that it brings in more players.

Well that is simply not fair, a group of users gets preferential treatment

Jongi.7612:

Veteran players have already gotten their fair share of free stuff, living story which if these new players want to experience they have to pay for, free level 20 boosts for being active during the anniversaries, free skins, free level 80’s if you didnt waste your tomes, and who knows what else was given out.

We have already paid for all that, first with our money then with our time. It has no bearing on the current situation

they are forcing me to choose between my existing progress and the “free bonus” I can’t get otherwise

in this situation the right decision is to abstain and not buy the dlc

Coulter.2315:

My mum used to give my sister and I a small gift on each others’ birthdays when we were young.

The game will be good, try to get past the tiny disappointment that you didn’t get a present. We should be excited as a community this mess is very depressing. Hope you all feel better – just try to keep it in perspective.

here’s the perspective: two different groups of people buy the same product for the same price in the same time period, one group arbitrarily receives a bonus on their purchase; the other does not

we are paying for this, and trying to defend out rights as customers, people should get the same value for their money regardless of their background; it is a question of principle

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

Day 4 of the Siege of Thorns eh..

Hi guys and dolls! Did I miss anything. A bunch of people telling us to lay off aNet, the poor buggers need the money and I’ll be giving them my money no matter what I say?

pretty much that, only the media is catching on
some staff members comment on the forums on topics totally unrelated to this (I’d guess they are forbidden to talk about this right now)

anyways don’t expect a statement soon; I remember when players were having massive lag issues it took about two weeks for them to say what’s going on

a pretty reasonable article

Smallclaw.1650:

Overall, I’m sure ANet has noted the negativity surrounding the prepurchase bundles (it would be impossible not to note something so in ones face); let’s keep crying about it.

yes that is the right strategy, the more people voice their concern the more the devs will know they will be losing sales,
also (it is already happening) it will bring the attention of the media, which will report on it
(you don’t jump down in the mud and expect to come out clean)

both of this factors could (i’d say should, but that shouldn’t have happened in the first place) make them try to make up for their underhanded actions

Smallclaw.1650:

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

If an existing player purchases the game however, he does not the the “free bonus”,
or have you failed to comprehend the only complaint that makes sense

Rococo.8347:

Maybe we should all just shut up and be grateful – after all I just realised…

We get the Slap In The Face for FREE!!!!

I bet Newbies wont get one of those until Living Story Season 3

phah that really made me laugh

briggah.7910:

To be honest I lost track as to why people are mad. All I know is there are a lot of mad people out there and each of them have their only reasons as to why they are mad.

nope those are my exact reasons; incidentally those are the only objective reasons to be “mad” (I feel quite calm atm)

csebal.5936:

I find it amazing, how people are ignoring the obvious.

HoT being expensive is not the real issue. Core game being bundled with it is not the real issue. Inequity IS the real issue.

Inequity in this case:
Player A (owns GW2) pays 50 bucks, receives only expansion, so 1 potatoes
Player B (does not own GW2) pays 50 bucks, receives both core game and exp, so 2 potatoes.

Player B gets 100% more potatoes for the same amount of money, making player A feel undervalued and neglected, especially considering how player A was supporting the potato factory for quite a long time.

If all they would do, is give Player A a separate core game key (even if he did not need it or ask for it), you would have lot less of a kittenstorm on hand.
[…]

I think that the article on eurogamer is the best so far, because it reflects the main problem – a group of (potential) buyers getting preferential treatment. I am glad that the issue is getting attention in the media

briggah.7910:

JJL.2719:

wait so I gotta pay extra for another copy of the game ? why cant they just sell the kitten expansion alone for like 30-40 bucks ?

No you don’t pay extra for it. If you have the core game you pay for the expansion. If you don’t have the core game you get that for free yet still pay for the expansion.

indeed “no, you don’t pay extra for it”, only some people who pay the same will get more for their money than you will

evadrepus.1280:

The silence is taking a long time. I think there’s only one way to go. I would expect to see a message like this very soon:

Only that wouldn’t fix the problem: two different groups of people paying the same price, for the same product, during the same time period, and one group receiving more than the other

neither the price, nor the slot is an issue here

I find it hard to feel sorry for someone who is trying to cheat me
Then again I am against harassment (it is simply useless in my opinion), and have always tried to present logical arguments about why this whole thing is unfair, without trying to offend anyone

last and least: it is my personal opinion that if you get offended by random people on the internet you should work on your self esteem a bit

Anchoku.8142:

I understand the promotional discount to new players as a temporary thing and I understand the steep price (assuming that price buys two more years of continuous investment by Arenanet).

that is false, i have a mail from support that states explicitly that the the expansion will never be sold separately from the core game

well it is a gamble on anets part
if enough people suck it up, and buy the dlc despite anet’s underhanded move, than old players say “enough with your kitten”, it will be more beneficial to them than giving that free core account, or anything in the way of compensation for it

they won’t be getting any money from me though, as the matter stands, and I hope enough people see this situation for what it is and.. wait at least, because otherwise it will just make anet more likely to try to pull things like this again, and screw with their users

Ashen.2907:

Yes they do. Every veteran has the same option to get a new account that includes both the core game and the expansion. If a veteran buys HoT without linking it to an existing account he has gotten exactly the same thing that a new players buying HoT would.

If you think it is fair that players are forced to choose between their existing progress, and the “free bonus”, there is no use in arguing (only note that then the bonus isn’t free because they have to give up upgrading their accounts for it)
I don’t think it is, hence my view on the situation

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

My bank has a deal: new customers can get $100 for creating a new account of a certain kind, exactly like the one I have — I get nothing for maintaining my account.

My ISP has a deal, for new customers only. My mobile phone carrier has a deal, for new customers only.
[…]

That is not the same thing, this is addressed in the 1st spoiler in my original post

firstly they still don’t get the “free bonus”, and thus they do not “have access to everything that the new player does”, if they did there wouldn’t be a problem in the first place

more importantly this ’’option’’ does not provide any actual additional content inaccessible to the new players, other than what the old players have already paid for (basic account)

also the new players do basically the same thing only it is instantaneous – they get an account for the game which is immediately connected to HoT

Ok since I see lot’s of confusion going on I’d like to put the problem of the HoT sale in it’s current state as clearly as possible, using facts

first of all I have noticed lot’s of people complaining about stuff that is not at all problematic, which diverts attention from the real problem – the inequality created between two groups of players when it comes to the purchase of the expansion. So I’d like to start with what the problem of the sale is NOT:

1) It is not the price – anet has the right to choose whatever price they want for their product
2) It is not the lack of a character slot included in the standard edition – anet can freely choose what to include in it, and what not to include
3) It is not new players receiving the “free bonus” however It is the conditions under which they receive it (I am all for giving new players the core game for free)

As you all know the purchase of the expansion comes with a “free bonus” which is exclusive to new players. The expansion will never be sold separately for a reduced price (confirmed by support in a mail to me). So here is the situation as it stands:

1) we have 2 user groups: new players and old players
2) both groups pay the same price
3) the products they get in return are not equal of value:
*new players get core game + expansion (“free bonus”)
*old players get expansion
4) if the old players wish to obtain the “free bonus” they are forced to give up their current progress in the game, and create a new account

Thus the group of the new players is receiving preferential treatment, which is simply put, unfair towards the old players who either have to sacrifice the “free bonus”, or their in-game progress, since they are not, and will not be able to buy the expansion separately for a reduced price.

The solution is simple:
A) Give the “free bonus” to everyone, a key for the core game goes to whoever upgrades their account
B) Provide something else to players who are not getting the “free bonus” in order to equalize the value of their purchase
The bottom line is this everyone should get the “free bonus” for it to be an actual free bonus

I will anticipate two counter arguments now, using quotes from my fellow forum users:
1) This is the same as a previous discounts, signing bonus, new member bonus, etc., etc.:

2) You have already played the game for X time, and you should be grateful for everything you have:

(the quotes were cut to only show the relevant bits, I had trouble embedding actuals quotes in spoilers, so the names of the insightful users are added below)

I am of course free to any critique about my understanding of the situation, provided it is based on actual facts, and not personal feelings of devotion towards the devs
(also feel free to call me names and speculate as to how evil and jealous I am, I am not insulted easily, and it makes me feel like you have nothing to offer in the way of actual counter arguments)

no that is not a fair deal I wrote this in my reply

“in the current situation this choice is forced upon me: either forsake the “free bonus”, or forsake my current progress because I cannot buy the expansion separately "

whatever choice I make I lose (so the only logical choice is to abstain and to buy the thing at all, and that’s what i’m going to do)

I am “mad” for being treated differently just because I have previously purchased an account
I am not “mad” about new players getting something for free

What I want is to either get a free core game account with my upgrade, or some kind of substitute for it

You can call me an ape or whatever you like, but that won’t change the facts

evoRobot.4019:

You can buy the same package deal and get the exact same service, but instead you are asking for something special thats not being offered.

You’re not considering alot of things like you bought the game full price so you can play early. That the game depreciates over time.

Its cruel you want to take something away from someone new so you can feel better. Its very childish.

I hope anet doesn’t give in. Because you can either take it or leave it

for buying the game earlier i will refer you to Harper.4173’s post above yours

so in the current situation this choice is forced upon me: either forsake the “free bonus”, or forsake my current progress because I cannot buy the expansion separately
how is that fair?

I don’t want to take anything away from anybody, what I want is every person to be treated equally when it comes to buying the expansion

I hope that anet “gives in” because otherwise they might start thinking that they can just do whatever the kitten they want, and their users will just put up with it

evoRobot.4019:

You already have the account, they refuse to open you the same one again.

You and the new customer have the exact same service. But you are upset / jealous they receive this exclusive offer… Instead you can just be happy for them and wish them the best of luck.

We do not get the same service, as I said before, were I to buy the expansion I get HoT (I have already paid for my account), whereas a new user gets GW2 + HoT
that is clearly not the same thing
Why can’t I get the same product? The fact that I have bought an account beforehand does not change the current situation

I have nothing against potential new users, and I wish them the best of luck indeed, but that is simply not fair

@Manuhell.2759, thanks for the precise explanation about those false analogies with other exlusive offers that are quite different from the present case

evoRobot.4019:

It’s an exclusive offer and a common practice in business.

The bank has periods of time where you can open a certain account for free, like a waterhouse account, or high savings account. Someone might have opened one a few years ago and missed that offer, but still has the same services as the person who will receive it for free today.

Between those years the person who missed the offer got to build their credit, receive interest and save their money. But the new person must start from the ground up.

This is the exact same situation here.

So tell me where the difference is.

the difference is equal opportunity:
during the designated period everyone can receive and account in the bank for free
in this case however not everyone can receive a free copy of the core game

i had explained it quite thoroughly i believe

because my dear Azure The Heartless, this is not the same thing
it is not fair that two different groups of people pay the same price and get different products

there is no “free bonus” for the people that already have an account, the only way to get the new content is to pay for the version with the bonus, only don’t get any kind of bonus. What makes the people who don’t have an account deserving of a bonus, and the others not…?

I’d also like to refer you to my post which is the second above yours

evoRobot.4019:

[too long to look good in a quote]

the deal isn’t fair

1) anet can choose a price for their products be it on sale, expansion, or whatever
2) people agree to pay the price and get a product in return
3) a fair treatment of customers is to give everyone who paid the price the same value product in return (notice how it doesn’t matter whether you have an acc or not when you buy the game on sale)
4) in this case we have 2 user groups: new players and old players
5) both groups pay the same price
6) the products they get in return are not equal of value:
*new players get core game + expansion
*old players get expansion

bonus) another false analogy: in the scenario in the bank you describe, the new customers do not get access to special services unavailable to the old customers upon signing up, that’s why it is perfectly fair