Guild Wars 2

Demoria.6745:

Tried this build during the first stress test but with sc/t and d/d. I think it will make more sense to be in scepter when you apply burning from torch since the durations are so short.

So you casted Blood is Power and Plaguelands with D/D?

I’m just so used to Scepter/Dagger now. When I was testing D/D I experienced more time casting instead of doing auto attacks with Mainhand Dagger for Life Force. When you cast your Corruptions, then Dagger 4, you’ve already spent a long time without gaining Life Force. I had better results with D/T because it was cast Torch skills fast, then just auto attack without Corruptions to worry about.

I ended up gaining Life Force faster as D/T.

Muchacho.2390:

I think it would be cool if mh dagger would get a bleed stack on the auto just to give it synergy with offhand dagger (kitten Anet for making mh dagger mainly power and offhand dagger mainly condi).

Sry but i have a weakness for d/d builds…

It’d still be best for Scepter/Dagger, but double Dagger would be fun to mess around with

Wintermute.5408:

Well, let’s see. Scourge offers:

Barrier – not wanted
Strength – heavily contested
Healing – lol.

Barrier still hasn’t been tested yet in Raids, or the new Raid. Saying it’s not wanted is speaking too soon.

Sigmoid.7082:

I guess it depends on if ~8 seconds of dagger auto +Feast of Corruption/20 seconds will be enough to sustain life force in longer fights.

8s of dagger auto under full quickness is about 45~53% LF with Soul Reaping.
The build has 0 vit so will have 79.35% of 21012 as LF meaning 16673.

Considering that with alacrity:

• F2 is ~8.3% of your LF every 3s
• F3 is ~15% of your LF every 4.8s
• F4 is ~28% of your LF every 9s
  and more importantly
• F5 is ~22% of your LF every 12s

You should end up running out of LF fairly quickly. if you use your abilities too much. There is also less room for error if things move and you have wasted your shade placement/miss a shade skill.

Maybe they’ll add +condition+vitality/+precision+expertise >_>

Probably not, but I don’t really see us running anything different than what I posted. I think it will just be a Sand Shade skill priority in rotations.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I honestly can’t think of many possibilities to maximize damage beyond that. I guess it depends on if ~8 seconds of dagger auto +Feast of Corruption/20 seconds will be enough to sustain life force in longer fights.

Against trash mobs, this isn’t an issue because they die so quick.

I think Life Force will be ok with this set up.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Kam.4092:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArY4fnE9CN9iV3Ae3A83gFhBjaKkF6V6119agNKAkAeAA-jBiHQBEU5XteCAkT/gGVCCgTCgz2Bgeq/EklHWHgAcumr5augH4AH4AH4AGgDcgDM35O35egDcApAWUvF-e

This is what I think will be best.

It will allow us to hit 100% cap easy with one Sand Shade out always, unless we have Alacrity.

We need to cap Condition Duration for Bleeding, Burning, and Torment now. Also this will cap Poison.

The Heal will end up being preference as usual. When using Staff you’d take Soul Marks.

I’m just wanting to start the discussion here about PvE builds.

At least for raids, I would think that a Master tuning crystal is superior, since you only need 2 shades up for max condition duration, which will be easy with Alacrity. That would let you eke out a bit more condition damage without losing anything else.

Master Tuning Crystal would be better in Raids. I was just picking what would give you 100% outside of Raids. Like in Fractals, etc.

Do you think my setup is good, or do you think it could be better?

Freebu.5230:

Kam.4092:

Zero Solstice.9754:

Power Scourge is sweet because of its ability to upkeep boons for free with Feed From Corruption and some Concentration. It also has some nice burst between Desert Shroud and Spiteful Spirit. It’s just another way to play the class, and I’m excited for the possibilities.

Please tell me why a purely Condition focused Elite would go a power route?

So we can complain about the terrible damage, obviously.

I wish I put Condition Builds only now in the title. I don’t understand why anyone would think to go Power with Scourge other than to run a special snowflake build.

I edited it now.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Power Scourge is sweet because of its ability to upkeep boons for free with Feed From Corruption and some Concentration. It also has some nice burst between Desert Shroud and Spiteful Spirit. It’s just another way to play the class, and I’m excited for the possibilities.

Please tell me why a purely Condition focused Elite would go a power route?

leasm.1279:

A question for you guys:

Is there a way to make power (full berserker) work with Scourge?

Anything can work, but it can just be bad as well. Grieving stats will be better for Power Scourge since it does so many Conditions.

Dadnir.5038:

Curse : shouldn’t you take plague sending instead of terrifying descent?

I’d probably try a power build around those lines in order to see the potential of a power Scourge (not that I have such infusions) :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBHbhG2JRvQVvYZvgjNA/NYpWw0fsV2NLVbYOctgSABgZAA-jxBBABA8EAOTJYAnEAsU+ln+Bc2foS1fCAkAceMPmHzDY8EPxT8EPxjrz8MPzzX+lf5XOPzz8IFQEDtA-e

I think power scourge capitalizing on desert shroud ability to dish out damage at the same time as the scourge auto attack could (maybe) reach a satisfying level of dps (well, at least it shouldn’t be below reaper’s).

If you want to do Power Scourge, try Grieving stats. I don’t really see the point in doing Power Scourge, but if you want, then Grieving is great for it.

I chose Terrifying Descent because Sand Shade skill 4 does fear.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArY4fnE9CN9iV3Ae3A83gFhBjaKkF6V6119agNKAkAeAA-jBiHQBEU5XteCAkT/gGVCCgTCgz2Bgeq/EklHWHgAcumr5augH4AH4AH4AGgDcgDM35O35egDcApAWUvF-e

This is what I think will be best.

It will allow us to hit 100% cap easy with one Sand Shade out always, unless we have Alacrity.

We need to cap Condition Duration for Bleeding, Burning, and Torment now. Also this will cap Poison.

The Heal will end up being preference as usual. When using Staff you’d take Soul Marks.

I’m just wanting to start the discussion here about PvE builds.

Avigrus.2871:

Great, I’m already nervous that this class is going to be nerfed into uselessness.

Wish i hadn’t pre-ordered now.

If you’re really that worked up over something this silly, then you should play another game besides an MMO.

Yogmondminer.5173:

Kam.4092:

Yogmondminer.5173:

Lahmia.2193:

Kam.4092:

Yogmondminer.5173:

I didnt say anything about the playstile, but its only my oppinion that its not as epic as sword deserves x3

What does Sword deserve

I’d guess condi melee as its our missing current weapon, though I don’t fancy waiting another 2 years for it.

Yeah something condi mele comes in mind, probably bleed or torment based, since it’s a sword…

Scavenger would be Power

Yeah but we kindof don’t want another kittenty power spec that in the end will come out useless just as power reaper did ; – ;

This forum is so emo. Why not think about us having a good Power spec? We are getting a Condition Spec soon, and it’d make sense that the next is Power.

I don’t see it being touched for a while, because the “testers” during the demo were mostly garbage, and didn’t have enough of a brain to not stand inside of Sand Shades. The average player in this game is absolute garbage, and just expects a free win for trying.

Specs like Scourge prevent this attitude. It’s going to be Dragonhunter 2.0.

I see it getting nerfed in PvP, but not in WvW unless it’s split balanced. I don’t see it being touched in PvE for weeks until it’s been properly tested in Raids and Fractals. I expect them to remove the ICD on Demonic Lore, and nerf our AoE. I mean the AoE cap, not nerfing Dhuumfire. The main OP factor in Scourge is its AoE in WvW and PvE. In PvP it’s going to be a noob killer, which will get it a lot of hate.

Also I don’t expect for Scourge DPS to be higher than Reaper on the dummy. Reaper does lik 33k. I expect Scourge to do a consistent 30k-31k. I may be wrong though, it depends. Even if it did like 28k I’d be happy, because Reaper just sucks with its Combo Fields, which can’t be realistically maintained in PvE.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t a balance patch on launch. We will wait and see, but it’s not worth worrying about. Call me optimistic, but I see Scourge being balanced more fairly cause it doesn’t have a second health bar.

I have the most fun on Necro, and will in the Expansion for sure as well. I know some take the game way more seriously than others, but for me, I mainly do Fractals, WvW, and open world events, which Scourge will be amazing at all of those.

I understand people’s concerns with our past, but it’s not healthy to always be in fear of nerfs, or talking about nerfs, etc. GW2 is an MMO with multiple game modes now, and split balance is a thing.

People should be excited about Path of Fire, not dreading it.

I’m excited

Staff is too slow for Life Force regen. You’d only want to stay outside of Scepter for 9 seconds. Even if they buffed it, to cast all the marks, and auto attack, it’d give less Life Force than Dagger, unless it was a big group of enemies, then auto attack spam would net more Life Force than Dagger.

Right now there is a DPS loss switching to Dagger to maintain Sand Shade skill usage, but it’d be way more of a loss just camping Scepter. People keep bringing up the DPS loss, but if we camped Scepter forever the loss would be an extreme loss in DPS. Dagger just keeps us right where we need to, so we can keep using Sand Shade skills.

I tested Staff, and for it to even compare to the speed of Dagger Life Force regen, it’d need to have the Trait buffed, and auto attack buffed for more Life Force, also would need Bleed on auto attack. This is too much to change. The time spent buffing Staff verses adding a Bleed to Dagger auto attack would be way longer.

I don’t understand why Obtena is still arguing this. Multiple people have said similar things to what I’m posting right now. Adding a Bleed to Dagger would be the easiest and quickest fix for the balance team to do. Think about their time spent as well.

Also in case anyone forgot, the demo and preview of Scourge had them wielding a Mainhand Dagger. Maybe this was a true sign that we’d need to use it. Since the Devs have seen this thread most likely, they will add a Bleed to Dagger most likely, because even they likely saw Dagger was best for Life Force.

I get you stick to your own views and opinions Obtena, but many here have made great points with knowledge and numbers to back them up. Within the first hour of testing Scourge I realized Dagger was the best Life Force generator. It needs a Bleed on auto attack, and it’s a simple fix for Scourge, and takes the least amount of time to implement.

Also staff will have its uses with Scourge in Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids, with a lot of enemies. It will surpass Dagger in those scenarios for Life Force generation.

I get you’re stubborn, but please just open your eyes and ears a bit.

Yogmondminer.5173:

Lahmia.2193:

Kam.4092:

Yogmondminer.5173:

I didnt say anything about the playstile, but its only my oppinion that its not as epic as sword deserves x3

What does Sword deserve

I’d guess condi melee as its our missing current weapon, though I don’t fancy waiting another 2 years for it.

Yeah something condi mele comes in mind, probably bleed or torment based, since it’s a sword…

Scavenger would be Power

Yogmondminer.5173:

I didnt say anything about the playstile, but its only my oppinion that its not as epic as sword deserves x3

What does Sword deserve

Krait won’t be the best.

I was thinking about Torment or Balthazar Runes, but Scourge will have 3 main Conditions that it wants to get close to capping.

The only real best answer is 4 Nightmare, and 2 Trapper at the moment like people are saying, adding those Runes with Sigils of Malice will be 35% Condition Duration for all Conditions.

I see this being a must, unless we get a Rune with Condition Damage and Expertise, even then, the flat out Duration on Nightmare and Trapper Runes will be prefered. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nightmare and Trapper Runes get nerfed eventually, and all Condition Damage Runes get Expertise eventually.

We will have to wait and see.

Yogmondminer.5173:

We haven’t even gotten PoF yet and people are fantasizing about new elite specs… i kittening love this community. Though I’d want sword to be accompanied with something a bit more epic than this :p

Crows are epic ._. And this is Power focused, not Condition like Scourge.

I love Marks, but they are only on the Staff.

The Elite would be called Scavenger, with a crow theme.
It would focus on Dark Arts and Marks. It would bring more access to Marks other than using Staff, being Life Steal focused.

The weapon would be Mainhand Sword, and the playstyle would focus on a mix between melee, and long ranged attacks.

The Shroud skill would be calling upon the spiritual power of crows to infuse with your body, giving you sharp claws to quickly attack your targets. It would be all black, covering you in feathers while giving you a shadowy crow like figure, and you’d have a beak. It would focus on teleporting and jumping into the air, then swooping down for massive damage and CC.

Shroud 1 would be a fast and simple multiple hitting auto chain that had a small amount of Life Steal to heal you in Shroud.

Shroud 2 would be a long range teleport that gave Superspeed, and Blinded targets in the area.

Shroud 3 would be a long range channeled Life Siphon like skill that transferred Conditions on you to your target while Healing you.

Shroud 4 would be a skill like Revenant Sword 3 where you teleported from target to target Crippling, and doing massive burst damage while evading attacks.

Shroud 5 would be a Knockdown skill that had you ravage your enemy with your claws hitting multiple times, and granting Might stacks with Fury.

Mainhand Sword would have skills that all had Life Steal.
The auto attack chain would be Life Steal with Life Force generation, and would focus on quick double attacks. Skill 2 would be a Mark that called upon Crows to attack your target multiple times like the Ranger Warhorn. Skill 3 would teleport and leave a trail of crow feathers that blinded targets.

The Heal would create a crow feather aura that worked like the Guardian’s Shelter Heal.

The first Utility would be a Mark that blinded and chained enemies with crow feathers.

The second Utility would be a Mark that was a ground targeted leap giving Protection, and Dazing targets.

The Third Utility would be a Mark that summoned a crow to fight by your side and transfer life to you on each attack, and fear your enemies.

The Elite would be a Mark that spawned sharp crow feathers around you hitting for heavy piercing damage, and crippling, while giving you stability.

The Traits would focus on moving faster, with Superspeed, and adding range and damage onto leap skills. Also being focused on slowing enemies down, and attacking faster. It would be very bursty.

I know it’s edgy, but I want it xD.

I saw two more pages to the thread, and was happy at first, then saw it’s just more arguing with Obtena. Your replies seriously give me a headache man. This is past normal discussion, and is just you saying no to everything, and acting like you’re some all knowing person when it comes to class development, and balance.

Can you just please Chill a bit, and let more people post criticism for a bit. We get your views, but we disagree with you. You post like this in so many threads. I always wonder if you’re trolling or not.

This thread is a great suggestion, and just because you dislike it, or disagree with it doesn’t give you the right to just go off like this. You do this so much on this forum, and it leads to the same thing in every thread.

Just chill for a bit :/

Lahmia.2193:

Crinn.7864:

tbh while I believe putting a condi on dagger would be great, chill is not the one.

Putting chill on dagger only really synergizes with Reaper, it does nothing for scourge and little for core necro.

The dagger AA should apply bleeding on the 2nd and 3rd auto chain, and dagger #3 should have a lower cast time to make it more reliable to land.

I’d still opt for torment, just because its pretty much the main scourge condition (and burning would be a bit much).

I can’t really picture a weapon that does Immobilize having Torment.

I would rather have a mix of Bleeding and Poison on Mainhand Dagger.

The arguing in this thread has really done nothing, and seems to mainly be from one person now. I don’t know if Obtena is trolling again or what. They have had a long presence of doing things like this in threads in the past. I just ignore them now.

This thread is just a game suggestion that makes sense. Arguing back and forth attacking other people’s ideas does nothing. At least I see more agreement in the thread.

The reason I want a mix of Bleeding and Poison is because I don’t want Mainhand Dagger to be the most powerful Condition weapon. I’d be fine with just Poison.

The only problem I could see from suggesting this, is making camping Mainhand Dagger more powerful than Scepter. I don’t want it to be stronger. I just want it to do a bit more damage, so the loss of switching to it for Life Force isn’t as big of a loss. I think Mainhand Dagger is also the best weapon to add a Condition to for us.

Even if they never do this, I’d want Life Force on Scepter auto at least. I’m just hoping they add a Condition to Mainhand Dagger because the playstyle when testing was so fun. It was the most fun I’ve had in a while on Necromancer. I loved switching from Scepter/Dagger to Dagger/Torch. It was actually using a weapon instead of just abusing it for Combo Fields like with the Greatsword.

I just hope Devs read threads like these.

Death Nova was great in Guild Wars 1. I wish it was good in Guild Wars 2 :/

I want to be a life siphoning crow

I want to win everything

I’m a new player and spent hours coming up with this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJASSl0AhChYjQwSIQTELzDmcAM/NAz+CLpXUVDYBEAA-TF2BQBeSNgs5QA6pShFqKQasEQUqgANVC2oygHpEkbeAAPqEqAWQMALEujOg7pJoaOCgrZDQmUR4LKJsmLAYMKRAgFBCwKAGqCRAAEgdbz0twBc0h+cjrcf2ul5vt5w1ZpAAclF-w

If they make Mainhand Dagger Condition eventually and listen to suggestions, I’d like a Mainhand Sword power build.

The Elite would be called Scavenger, with a crow theme.

It would focus on Dark Arts and Marks. It would bring more access to Marks other than using Staff, being Life Steal focused.

The Shroud skill would be calling upon the spiritual power of crows to infuse with your body, giving you sharp claws to quickly attack your targets. It would be all black, covering you in feathers while giving you a shadowy crow like figure, and you’d have a beak. It would focus on teleporting and jumping into the air, then swooping down for massive damage and CC.

Mainhand Sword would have skills that all had Life Steal.

The auto attack chain would be Life Steal with Life Force generation, and would focus on quick double attacks. Skill 2 would be a Mark that called upon Crows to attack your target multiple times like the Ranger Warhorn. Skill 3 would teleport and leave a trail of crow feathers.

The Heal would create a crow feather aura that worked like the Guardian’s Shelter Heal.

The first Utility would be a Mark that blinded and chained enemies with crow feathers.

The second Utility would be a Mark that was a ground targeted leap giving Protection, and blinding.

The Third Utility would be a Mark that summoned a crow to fight by your side and transfer life to you on each attack, and fear your enemies.

The Elite would be a Mark that spawned sharp crow feathers around you hitting for heavy piercing damage, and crippling.

The Traits would focus on moving faster, with Superspeed, and adding range and damage onto leap skills. Also being focused on slowing enemies down, and attacking fast. It would be very bursty.

I know it’s edgy, but I want it xD.

Obtena.7952:

^^ It only gets better … so you want an unnecessary and marginally effective change on dagger to accommodate people doing PVE that don’t want to swap to improve their LF regen on Scourge. It’s making lots of sense now :/

We don’t want Mainhand Dagger to be the main weapon. Read the thread and replies. If you’re not swapping when Condition, then you’re losing out on Geomancy.

This forum is really starting to make me think people on the official forums don’t know their Profession’s mechanics well.

Obtena.7952:

Zefiris.8297:

Obtena.7952:

The suggestion to add condi on dagger is such a blatant attempt at power creep that I can’t even believe anyone would think this a serious suggestion.

The problem with redditors like you is your strange, and slightly bewildering idea that this is a)power creep and b)bad. No idea why you guys even have this power creep meme, because it’s really, really silly.

If something is bad and unused, buffing it is not “power creep” or whatever word salad you want to shout, it’s bringing it up to par.

Just because the weapon is unused does not mean this is not power creep. The funny thing is that no one acknowledges that the performance of a condition-upgraded dagger, even in Scourge, will still be pretty poor compared to a optimized Scepter Condi setup … and then tell me this isn’t a bad idea? Please tell me what a condi-upgraded dagger Scourge setup even looks like … it looks like a non-optimized condition setup using Viper armor and missing out on the best condition traits while relying on a power weapon to deliver damage. That’s garbage … and that’s the best solution for LF regen on Scourge you are going to support … GG.

This suggestion solves no problem, other than giving dagger a little more DPS in a completely useless way; no power build can do anything with that addition outside of Scourge and I’m doubtful it’s better DPS than Scepter will be on Scourge. It’s just more damage tacked onto dagger, just because people can’t be bothered to swap weapons while using Scourge. If that’s not the definition of power creep, then power creep doesn’t exist.

We aren’t asking for this to not weapon swap. Weapon swapping is already a thing for many Professions. This is about having to switch to Mainhand Dagger every 9 seconds for a burst of quick Life Force to maintain, and a good flow of Shade skills. We literally have to. Also it would be the same Traits with just a Mainhand Dagger. It would be Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch.

The suggestion is for the loss of DPS with having to switch to a Power weapon to be smaller.

I don’t get how people don’t understand this simple suggestion. This thread is filled with a bunch of people arguing over a reasonable and smart suggestion. If you don’t get why this is needed then you’re just bad at the game I guess. This is needed for PvE.

All these suggestions about using Dessicate or Spectral armor in PvE instead are laughable too. Doing that would lower DPS even more than just camping Scepter. It’s like you guys saying this didn’t even test Scourge, and actually know nothing about it.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Not happening. Dagger is already very strong and with well defined role – swift attacking power weapon with strong sustain (life leech, life force generation, amount of life stealing hits if you went blood magic), and traditional boon corrupt (+ nice immob).

It is mostly for that very high sustain that dagger is not #1 power weapon, and obviously can’t get condi damage. For what it does, it’s already strong enough.

What necro does need is some decent life force generation on condi weapons …one that’s actually tied to condi and not spamming power aa on a condi weapon (staff).
Torch could use some Lf generation.
And necro in general could use a condi melee mainhand. Mace is still free for him, so that’s a nice candidate to begin with.

If you think we could use a Condition Mainhand weapon, then why not add a Condition to Mainhand Dagger? Waiting another two years for the next Elite Spec, which won’t be Condition probably for one is dumb.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Let’s be clear: when it can be done nothing in the entire game beats Epidemic bouncing. When it’s an option, you really should be doing it.

When it’s not an option, then you may discuss other utilities in that third slot.

Just curious, what utilities do you like? When using Condition Reaper you’d add another Minion, like Flesh Wurm, or “Suffer!”. With Scourge we don’t have Shouts, and minions don’t do Combo Finishers either since we don’t do Ice Field spams. I was thinking about Serpent Siphon, Plague Signet, Well of Corruption for Fractals with Boons, and Corrosive Poison Cloud. Utilities change per Fractal/Fight though. I mean maybe replacing Epidemic with a minion would still be good.

I just like hearing other people’s opinions.

Kumouta.4985:

Dessicate has a 16 second cooldown when traited.
Sadistic searing is not a reason to pick more punishments? why not? it makes puni good enough to be some of the best dps skills if you want it, why wouldn’t that be worth it? the dhuumfire tick on 15-20 enemies you get from its 10% lifeforce and the burning from searing plus the low cooldown does make it worth slotting, and do remember you’ll hit 20 enemies with the dhuumfire tick, which is why i dont slot bip and epi at the same time for multi target dps.
Dessi does slightly less damage than cpc (normally our 2nd best condi dps skill), but you have those 4 (or 3.5) seconds to make up for that. It is one of our best damage skills if you know how to play scourge now.

Serpent siphon is a flawed support skill. Don’t consider it if you’re not trying to support.

Kam, i made it clear which utilities you should use for multiple targets and which for a single target. Read the giant wall of text before saying “no n o u should always slot epi for condi dps”, please.

I just simply disagree with you, and so do others. Dessicate is trash in PvE. The Burning from Sadistic Searing is not some amazing boost. It’s not like slotting multiple Punishments ups your DPS. It actually lowers it, especially when taking casting times into consideration.

Also it’s not like every encounter has 20 enemies. I would only ever think about Dessicate as a last option when no other utility fills a role, and I need to drop Epidemic.

I’m not calling your ideas bad, or the way you plan to play bad. I just think differently.

When testing is done you may be right, I may be right, or we both may be wrong. My views are based on what I found from testing nonstop over the Demo weekend. It wasn’t even a good time span really, and limited Sigils and Runes in the PvP area. Damage will look way higher with Ascended gear, and proper Sigils and Runes.

On fights where Epidemic isn’t taken, I just expect people to keep Blood is Power, and Trail of Anguish, then the third slot is just pick whatever. With Condition Reaper it was add another Minion, because of combo fields. With Scourge we don’t have that option, so it’s just chose something like Plague Signet, Corrosive Poison Cloud, Dessicate, Serpent Siphon, or Well of Corruption for some Boon Corruption in Fractals, etc.

Also Epidemic isn’t just for your own Conditions, it spreads others to enemies, then another Necro can Epidemic back to do more DPS for the group. I don’t think Sadistic Searing can beat Epidemic bouncing.

I feel like the last slot won’t matter much. Scourge will have flexibility with playstyles.

Will probably be two months before everything is tested and new Raids are added to test Scourge. A lot right now is just player to player speculation.

Brokensunday.4098:

Vitali.5039:

Vitali.5039:

Dagger
What condi spec need: damaging condition application and life force generation.
Suggestion: reduce AA aftercast (more attack = more crits = more bleeding) and empowering Life Siphon to torment foes at each pulse while the caster its afflicted by bleeding.

^repost: more power and condition damage (from AA crits), faster life force generation and a reason to use both dark pact and life siphon.

Tematic reason: if someone its stealing your life you’ll be.. tormented?

actually weaken

They should explode into blood.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Kam.4092:

Too many Punishments bring nothing but Boon corrupts. The only ones with Damage built into them are Trail of Anguish, and Serpent Siphon. The Elite doesn’t matter, because Plaguelands is just leagues better.

Damage? On Serpent Siphon?

That is a single stack of Poison for 2 seconds. Dessicate is vastly better than that from a damage perspective. More direct damage, more life force to fuel F skills (and thus Dhuumfire), and a shorter cooldown for proccing the burn on shade placement.

Serpent Siphon has higher direct damage, and has a condition added, with a Barrier.

Expecting to make Sadistic Searing some huge thing, and slotting multiple punishments would be so stupid. It’s a bonus to reduced CD on Trail of Anguish. It won’t even come close to beating Corruptions.

If you want to bring up Dessicate’s direct damage, and act like it’s good for some reason, look at Blood is Power’s, and Serpent Siphon’s Damage. They also have higher Power scaling than Dessicate.

Dessicate is just not a good ability. Wasting the time to cast it would be a loss as well. Maybe if it was instant, it’d be iffy, but it’s just trash.

Also this was a talk about which weapons were best for Scourge which is Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch. When there is a lot of enemies it’s Staff and Scepter/Torch.

Kumouta.4985:

[PvE]
dessicate will give you 10% lf for one dhumbfire and give you the one extra burn when traited. In the end it will do, factoring in all the traits (including that single dhuumfire), but not might, slightly (~300)less damage than CPC, but with a 4 sec lower cd, so you can very easily make up for the lost damage. Not the projectile destruct, though. It can’t do that, but i doubt you need that more than all the benefits of refilling your shroud bar a little bit out of combat for most situations.
Trail of anguish outdamages cpc.
So ideally for single target dmg you’d go signet of vampirism or sand flare depending on the amount of allies (if you’re not alone vampi will do more dmg) dessicate, bip, trail.
your offhands for single target are ideally torch and dagger, but warhorn remains an option to f2 your traited bip into vigor and might and dhuumfire the enemy. Also, after that f2 you’re less than 1k lf away from the second dhuumfire, at which point you will have done enough dmg to compete with dagger. It’s really a matter of whether you need the extra might from converting your self torment, because depending on how many condis you already did it can be better dmg than offhand dagger. The choice here will have to be made by you for yourself based on your stats and whether you need a cc or weakness&corrupt, and whether you have allies. Or just preference.
Multi target would be sand flare, dessicate, epi, trail.
Ideally warhorn for obvious reasons and torch.
Sadistic searing is what makes me take dessicate over BiP here.
I didn’t calculate anything related to mainhands, only compared a lot of trait dmg and weapon dmg with the wiki’s values.
Against any number, plaguelands will be the best elite.

So, in the end, mixing punishment and corruption makes one have a good time.

Also, serpent siphon seems to be intended for wvw? but the barrier isn’t truly aoe so it’s heavily underpowered there. Without the requirement to actually hit targets for the snakes to become barrier, it would be a viable support skill, especially with very few allies. But this is just ???…

Taking Dessicate over Blood is Power is a horrible decision. You’re utilities for Condition DPS should be Trail of Anguish, Blood is Power, Epidemic, and Plaguelands. Maybe the Punishment Heal, but most use Blood Fiend.

When Epidemic can’t be used, only then would the idea of using Dessicate make any sense. I’ll be choosing Serpent Siphon over Dessicate because of the low cast time, and long range. I’ll use Serpent Siphon over it mainly because it does a Barrier with a bit of Poison Damage. Plague Signet could also be used on Condition heavy single target fights.

Too many Punishments bring nothing but Boon corrupts. The only ones with Damage built into them are Trail of Anguish, and Serpent Siphon. The Elite doesn’t matter, because Plaguelands is just leagues better.

Sadistic Searing should be used as a bonus for Trail of Anguish. It shouldn’t be a reason to slot more Punishments.

I liked the cast on Serpent Siphon too, it was fun to test. I’d probably be using Plague Signet over it though on most fights, but I’ll just have to see. I do Fractals mainly, and Conditions are rampant in T4.

I’m hyped to switch my staff to Viper and one of my Daggers. Knowing Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch will be best, and then Staff and Scepter/Torch has me really happy. I wish Staff had more use outside of PvP and WvW. I’ll be using Staff a lot in Fractals, because the Life Force generation will be insane for Sand Shades

Wintermute.5408:

Brujeria.7536:

Kumouta.4985:

Warhorn can hit 5 enemies at the same time for more lf regen and thus lots of shade damage. Corruptions? Only BiP is better dps-wise than just using traited punishments. (trail of anguish and dessicate do pretty good damage if you trait for punishments and use your shade skills)
I only see offhand dagger being being best in a 1v1 with a miniboss who has no minions. Warhorn will be better for utility and damage when fighting multiple enemies.
I’m not sure whether terror will do more damage than MoC with only BiP though.
When not factoring in corruptions, warhorn will outdps offhand dagger due to dumbfire.

The punishment skills all deal close to 0 damage. The condi application is basicly not there comparing these to ele utility skills for condi. BiP is good for condi. No other utility is even half as good as the ele utilities. CPC sucks damage wise, because it does weakness and reliable projectile destruction, trail of anguish does not even burn each second, it burns up to 2 times on the same target unless its bugged.

In the end we will struggle between lifeforce gain and condi weapons, even if we find a way to make it work with spamming f skills our damage will be subpar to the meta dps classes. Not even reconsidering the massive powerspike ele for example will get with the PoF Espec traits.

kitten. I went to have a second look at Dessicate for argument, and just now noticed it doesn’t have offensive anything attached to it outside of corrupt. Like, I don’t even…

It doesn’t give more Life Force per target either. It’s just 10%, and it’s 1 second cast is garbage, and would have a conflict with Blood is Power, Plaguelands, and Epidemic. Corruption are our main damaging utilities for Condition DPS, just like Wells are for Power DPS.

This is for PvE though. Dessicate may see heavy PvP and WvW play. The cast time is crap though. I wish that it was instant like Trail of Anguish, which is a good Punishment skill in PvP and PvE.

Kumouta.4985:

Warhorn can hit 5 enemies at the same time for more lf regen and thus lots of shade damage. Corruptions? Only BiP is better dps-wise than just using traited punishments. (trail of anguish and dessicate do pretty good damage if you trait for punishments and use your shade skills)
I only see offhand dagger being being best in a 1v1 with a miniboss who has no minions. Warhorn will be better for utility and damage when fighting multiple enemies.
I’m not sure whether terror will do more damage than MoC with only BiP though.
When not factoring in corruptions, warhorn will outdps offhand dagger due to dumbfire.

Epidemic is a Corruption, and so is Plaguelands. We will still bring these with Blood is Power in PvE. Trail of Anguish looked to be the only good Punishment for PvE DPS.

If you’re Condition and not using Corruptions, then you’re doing it wrong for PvE. Also a lot of fights are single target fights, and the Warhorn gives a pathetic 11.5% of Life Force on an atrocious 30 second CD. Mainhand Dagger auto attack chains give more. You get 8% Life Force per Mainhand Dagger auto chain, and it’s very fast Life Force generation. Nothing will beat it.

Also the cast time on Dessicate is crap. It has no use in PvE. Maybe if they made it instant it’d be useful for Support, but with Mainhand Dagger it won’t matter.

I see Sand Savant being used over Demonic Lore when doing Support roles. When doing DPS roles I see Demonic Lore being used over Sand Savant.

Sand Savant will not always be used as support though, because I see group stacking being an issue. If you need to spread out on fights, then single Shades would be better, for stacking Barrier on people far away past the 300 radius with Sand Savant.

Overall it may just come to personal preference for what you prefer in each game mode. I for one will use Demonic Lore probably mainly, then Sand Savant when I switch gear to fill a support role.

Both Traits are great to me.

It is getting annoying trying to have a discussion about Scourge, when it’s a mix of player bases.

I for one care about PvE more than anything, and when threads are made it’s just PvErs and PvPers arguing back and forth. This is a big drag on the forum, and is ruining discussions that could be good if they were separated.

PvP is talked about more than WvW, but people can make threads with (WvW) in the title too.

I just think this would really help to see what people plan to talk about in the thread.

It’s getting really tiring to have to try and explain why something is good, or better than something else on this forum. Too many don’t know what they are talking about.

I know the majority of people being stubborn and not listening, probably didn’t test Scourge, and don’t even understand Condition Reaper.

The Warhorn is kitten for Life Force and DPS for Condition Reaper, as well as on Scourge.

The time that you don’t attack with Scepter to use Mainhand Dagger for Life Force generates the most Life Force you can get in a 9 second window. I don’t understand how people don’t understand this. I don’t know if this is PvE views getting mixed in with PvP views or what. In PvE Scourge will use Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch.

It’s like most people commenting don’t actually understand the class, and they just use the current Meta build, while never thinking about why and how things work.

The Warhorn only has a use on Power DPS and in PvP. At the beginning of HoT when people were experimenting with Condition builds, Warhorn was used when it was Scepter/Dagger and Scepter/Warhorn. This became obsolete later on in HoT, and the meta changed to Scepter/Dagger and Greatsword.

With Path of Fire we will need more Life Force than ever before to do the most DPS, or do the most support we can. Maybe some just simply do not care about being optimal in the game, and have their own views, but Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch will be the best setup. We will be weapon swapping on every CD, every 9 seconds, for Geomancy and Life Force.

Please stop arguing, when it’s been proven which weapon setup is best for PvE already.

Kumouta.4985:

i’d go scepter/torch dagger/warhorn, so i can at least stop people or scare them off if they’re too close with torch 4/5.
and dagger already has immob to do that. Offhand dagger isnt needed for scourge due to f2 for condi removal and lifeforce doing more dmg due to all the burns and torment your sand shades apply. I’ve considered taking focus instead of warhorn but i’d be worse in group fights, and focus usually doesnt hit due to some dodge or block- plus, the corruptions we do does more dmg total than spinal shivers.

This may work in PvP, but Offhand Dagger is so important for PvE.

Rym.1469:

Kam.4092:

mazut.4296:

Rym.1469:

I agree with the topic. I think the consensus is that we would still want to keep Dagger as a power weapon, but offer a bit of condition pressure to open up more builds and lessen the DPS drop switching to it in a Condition build would cause.

Thankfully, Path of Fire has given us the charge/ammo mechanic. Along with it, many underperforming skills on weapons such as Throw Axe on Warrior were given this new tech. I would actually do the same with Dark Pact and this topic is a good place to suggest such thing.

So, to please both sides I’d go with the version of Dark Pact linked in attachments. For few seconds, every Dagger hit would cause bleeding (duration is tbd) on a foe stuck by the ability. This would add another skill to the possible rotation as maybe even bring Life Siphon into it, since the skill hits 9 times.

This is pretty decent idea, it might make it to powerful tho. Probably should work only on auto attacks. But it turns the weapon both power and condi at the same time. I like having versatile options.

After some consideration I think this is actually great idea. Can work with both power and add that slightly lacking damage(compared to other dagger using professions). Also can tun into hybrid weapon. However the buff shouldn’t be more then 8sec. long and also doesn’t really benefit from ammo mechanic, except for the immobilize part. We will swap to this weapon and back to our main weapon on cd if using it as condi supplement weapon set. So more then 8 sec duration is overkill. Also the trait need to change obviously. Maybe something like:
-Chance on hit: 20-33% double attack(Necrotic Slash) (also another way to apply more bleeds)
-flat movement speed increase: 15% in combat
-Dagger Skill Recharge Reduced: 20%

Even if they buffed the Trait for Dagger, we wouldn’t be using Blood Magic over Soul Reaping. Soul Reaping has too much that helps Scourge for DPS and support. Also Necrotic Slash already hits twice by default.

These are good ideas, but they sort of over complicate an easy problem to fix. Just adding a Condition to the Mainhand Dagger auto attack fixes things.

I think if we are already discussing adding conditions to dagger for the sake of PvE, making sure Necromancers get to use more than just auto-attack would be a good idea. Especially Life Siphon, since it’s such a good animation, but we were never able to really make use of it in PvE.

Add what it takes to those skills, in the end the condition-addition change can be made just for PvE.

The only reason to use Mainhand Dagger on Scourge is to auto attack for Life Force. It doesn’t need to be made into a full on condition weapon. Just adding Bleeding or Poison to the auto attack is fine. Wasting potential Life Force gains on the other Mainhand Dagger skills would be a waste, since it’s about gaining Life Force fast in a 9 second window for your Sand Shades, then weapon swapping back to Scepter/Dagger.

MethaneGas.8357:

rogerwilko.6895:

Scepter = slow life force generation, or am I mistaking?

Technically, with Nourishing Rot, you get 5% lifeforce when you remove/corrupt a boon… which makes scepter 1 spamming pretty decent for lifeforce regen >

Which would be a waste for PvE. The Torch Trait will be mandatory.

rogerwilko.6895:

Scepter = slow life force generation, or am I mistaking?

It is slow, that’s why you need a Mainhand Dagger for it. There are several threads on here now explaining why.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I think warhorn will almost always be better than offhand dagger for Scourge. The increased life force gain is far more valuable.

Without Offhand Dagger, then Corruptions won’t work. Also Warhorn is more used in PvP and Power builds.

Mainhand Dagger will also generate Life Force WAY faster than the pitiful Warhorn ability that has a 30 second CD.

All this is being judged over a weekend of play. It’d be better to see a month of play before getting panties in knots.

Staff does need buffs, but this is way too much xD

Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch for all content but encounters with a lot of enemies, like in Fractals and Dungeons. Content with a lot of enemies would be Scepter/Torch and Staff.

I’d probably be switching in between Scepter/Dagger and Staff though throughout.

mazut.4296:

Rym.1469:

I agree with the topic. I think the consensus is that we would still want to keep Dagger as a power weapon, but offer a bit of condition pressure to open up more builds and lessen the DPS drop switching to it in a Condition build would cause.

Thankfully, Path of Fire has given us the charge/ammo mechanic. Along with it, many underperforming skills on weapons such as Throw Axe on Warrior were given this new tech. I would actually do the same with Dark Pact and this topic is a good place to suggest such thing.

So, to please both sides I’d go with the version of Dark Pact linked in attachments. For few seconds, every Dagger hit would cause bleeding (duration is tbd) on a foe stuck by the ability. This would add another skill to the possible rotation as maybe even bring Life Siphon into it, since the skill hits 9 times.

This is pretty decent idea, it might make it to powerful tho. Probably should work only on auto attacks. But it turns the weapon both power and condi at the same time. I like having versatile options.

After some consideration I think this is actually great idea. Can work with both power and add that slightly lacking damage(compared to other dagger using professions). Also can tun into hybrid weapon. However the buff shouldn’t be more then 8sec. long and also doesn’t really benefit from ammo mechanic, except for the immobilize part. We will swap to this weapon and back to our main weapon on cd if using it as condi supplement weapon set. So more then 8 sec duration is overkill. Also the trait need to change obviously. Maybe something like:
-Chance on hit: 20-33% double attack(Necrotic Slash) (also another way to apply more bleeds)
-flat movement speed increase: 15% in combat
-Dagger Skill Recharge Reduced: 20%

Even if they buffed the Trait for Dagger, we wouldn’t be using Blood Magic over Soul Reaping. Soul Reaping has too much that helps Scourge for DPS and support. Also Necrotic Slash already hits twice by default.

These are good ideas, but they sort of over complicate an easy problem to fix. Just adding a Condition to the Mainhand Dagger auto attack fixes things.