Guild Wars 2

Rym.1469:

Kam.4092:

Rym.1469:

I agree with the topic. I think the consensus is that we would still want to keep Dagger as a power weapon, but offer a bit of condition pressure to open up more builds and lessen the DPS drop switching to it in a Condition build would cause.

Thankfully, Path of Fire has given us the charge/ammo mechanic. Along with it, many underperforming skills on weapons such as Throw Axe on Warrior were given this new tech. I would actually do the same with Dark Pact and this topic is a good place to suggest such thing.

So, to please both sides I’d go with the version of Dark Pact linked in attachments. For few seconds, every Dagger hit would cause bleeding (duration is tbd) on a foe stuck by the ability. This would add another skill to the possible rotation as maybe even bring Life Siphon into it, since the skill hits 9 times.

That’s a good idea overall, but the self Bleeding does a lot of damage, and with an ammo mechanic could kill you easy. Having to use Life Siphon defeats the purpose of the Dagger. Switching to the dagger is solely for Life Force as Scourge to maintain DPS with Sand Shades.

Life Siphon is a 3 second cast, which would be 33% of the 9 second weapon swap CD wasted. Dark Pact is a 1 second cast, which would give 8 seconds left to gain Life Force before switching back. It wouldn’t really have to be an ammo mechanic, but just a short buff to work, because we wouldn’t be staying in it forever.

If they did add a Condition to Mainhand Dagger, they might have to nerf the Power Damage and scaling to balance it. So your idea is a good idea.

In a support Condition Build that would be using Mainhand Dagger mainly, it might kill you though with an ammo mechanic, unless you had Offhand Dagger for Deathly Swarm, or a good healer in a Raid.

The self-bleeding already exists on the skill and on live it’s 2x with the same duration. I just split both Corruption and self-bleed over two charges. With Quickness, Dagger builds Life Force very quickly. Both Dark Pact and Life Siphon cast times go down in half with that boon.

I know, but you want to be auto attacking with Mainhand Dagger for Life Force. If Dark Pact did a buff for Bleeding that lasted 10 seconds, then it would sync up great with weapon swap. That would be worth it, but Life Siphon would not be. Either way I’d rather there just be bleeding or Poison on the Mainhand Dagger auto attack.

Arienne Di Savorie.7468:

I’m currently crafting Ascended armour and I have come to a conclusion which makes me sad I’m going to buy new Expansion but I have 3 Berserker’s elements of ascended – shall I complete Berserker’s or start from a scratch and build Viper ? Help!

Me being someone that has a Berserker set and Viper set for PvE, and two WvW sets, I can say depending on your playstyle, one may be better to get first.

Power/Berserker Reaper destroys all open world content so far, don’t know yet about Path of Fire. In general PvE like Dungeons and low tier Fractals it’s ok, but Viper Necro destroys Power Reaper in higher tier Fractals and Raids.

I personally made Berserker gear first, then Viper. I love both Power and Viper Reaper playstyles.

I would just finish Berserker gear personally. It’s recommended having a set for both though.

Ascended gearing is pretty fast now. Living Story 3 Trinkets speed things up really fast. You can get a full Berserker and Viper Trinket set in like a few weeks for free, just farming map currency.

If all you need to do is craft armor though, then it’s just do whatever at the moment. Ever since you can stat switch now, it’s less stressful. ;D

Lexan.5930:

a new rune focused on all condi’s would be really nice with a 6 set bonus thats not just one thing or something that doesn’t benefit us

It would most likely just have expertise on it. There have been Runes shown with Concentration for instance in the Demo.

Would be less than flat out percentages, but might be fine.

It’d be 150 Expertise most likely in Raids if you’re running without Sand Savant. You can’t keep up 3 Sand Shades nonstop sadly.

I do love that Trait though because it’s Expertise and not just Condition Duration. We have Bleeding, Torment, and Burning now. Before it was mainly Bleeding. So a Condition Duration buff to everything is great.

I do hate using Nightmare and Trapper Runes though. I love Rune 6 sets if they are good. I’m hoping in Path of Fire we get a Rune with Condition Damage, and Condition Duration as main stats, then a +5%-10% Condition Damage bonus when above 90% health or something. Would probably be better for +5%, because +10% may be overpowered >_>.

Rym.1469:

I agree with the topic. I think the consensus is that we would still want to keep Dagger as a power weapon, but offer a bit of condition pressure to open up more builds and lessen the DPS drop switching to it in a Condition build would cause.

Thankfully, Path of Fire has given us the charge/ammo mechanic. Along with it, many underperforming skills on weapons such as Throw Axe on Warrior were given this new tech. I would actually do the same with Dark Pact and this topic is a good place to suggest such thing.

So, to please both sides I’d go with the version of Dark Pact linked in attachments. For few seconds, every Dagger hit would cause bleeding (duration is tbd) on a foe stuck by the ability. This would add another skill to the possible rotation as maybe even bring Life Siphon into it, since the skill hits 9 times.

That’s a good idea overall, but the self Bleeding does a lot of damage, and with an ammo mechanic could kill you easy. Having to use Life Siphon defeats the purpose of the Dagger. Switching to the dagger is solely for Life Force as Scourge to maintain DPS with Sand Shades.

Life Siphon is a 3 second cast, which would be 33% of the 9 second weapon swap CD wasted. Dark Pact is a 1 second cast, which would give 8 seconds left to gain Life Force before switching back. It wouldn’t really have to be an ammo mechanic, but just a short buff to work, because we wouldn’t be staying in it forever.

If they did add a Condition to Mainhand Dagger, they might have to nerf the Power Damage and scaling to balance it. So your idea is a good idea.

In a support Condition Build that would be using Mainhand Dagger mainly, it might kill you though with an ammo mechanic, unless you had Offhand Dagger for Deathly Swarm, or a good healer in a Raid.

nekretaal.6485:

Just turn staff one into a projectile finisher (it’s already 20% there), and you have your condition swap weapon.

No matter what they do to Staff it just simply generates Life Force slower than Mainhand Dagger.

Ramoth.9064:

Jelzouki.4128:

Hi,

For those that dont know me let me attach some credibility to my name for a moment. I was on team ASAP Zerg, semi-pro esport team. Long time pvper and necro player. Just wanted to clarify that scourge is indeed too strong. The people defending it have no clue what they are saying. Im guessing they are going to nerf the burn damage. You press buttons and things just die when playing the scourge.

So just another nobody. Gotcha.

lol

Zefiris.8297:

Wintermute.5408:

Compared to what dagger? Mainhand is literally useless for condi as it is

It has no conditions, this is true. And yet…

…at least in the (not super representative) tests we could do, I always outdamaged a scepter only build with it. Every time. Staff, too, I outdamaged (tho that is probably less representative, because groups might make staff better).

If the life force from dagger outperforms the scepter conditions, then dagger is a reasonable choice even if it is a power weapon.

Of course, I kept the time in dagger to a minimum, but also remember that we do not use shroud in this build, meaning we can switch from and to dagger on cooldown, which synergizes heavily with “on weapon swap” sigils.

I’m glad some people understand this. A lot are too stubborn to listen.

I agree for PvP when just stacking on points, but it will need split balance to stay relevant in PvE.

In WvW I hear it’s the same as PvP, just without cap points.

Wintermute.5408:

Zefiris.8297:

Wintermute.5408:

I’m starting to think for PVE scourges will run staff of all things.

I genuinely don’t see how. It seems to be a dps loss compared to dagger. Staff pretty much needs Terror (competes with Master of Corruption), Terrifying Descent and Soul Marks to be any good, at which point you sunk two traits into it and lost Master of Corruption.

And Terror just looks… bad.

Compared to what dagger? Mainhand is literally useless for condi as it is, and I have doubts anything will change with it. Offhand offers transfer of 3 condis (reaper got bleeds out of it, but not scourge), and 2 bleeds and some boon corruption (lol) with Enfeeble.

Now, staff has:
2: 2 bleeds with slightly lower duration and slightly lower damage than dagger5.
3: 3 poisons (have trouble comparing it to anything, not in mood to do math)
4: transfer of 3 condis
5: breakbar damage, 1 torment, 1 burn

Assuming traits:

Terrifying descent – Curses will remain mandatory, but with DC gone with reaper, there is no point in Chilling Darkness anymore, and Plague Sending is generally not used.

Soul marks – same reasoning. Mandatory line with not much else to choose from.

Demonic lore – up for debate. Big shade may end up more useful.

I mean, it obviously isn’t second coming in terms of condis. But staff more than makes up for loss of offhand dagger for its functionality, and offers much needed LF generation. Inability to use scepter will be sad, but may be bypassed by some smart rotation. And staff1 generates LF as well.

Overall, I’d rather ask for Staff1 to get condi attached to it, and turn it into full pledged secondary condi weapon. Potential is there, and IMHO it’s better than expect them to suddenly rework dagger mainhand for condi use. Because most likely it won’t happen.

This is a reply for PvE.

Staff is incredibly slow, and clunky. It wouldn’t generate enough Life Force compared to Mainhand Dagger for Sand Shade skills. This is for PvE though. In PvP and WvW Staff will be used as always.

The staff transfer also has a longer cast, and longer CD than Offhand Dagger. Which would feel clunky.

Scourge basically gets a penalty when having to switch to Mainhand Dagger to keep using Sand Shades for DPS and support. You’d lose more DPS not switching to it, but if they add a Condition to the auto, then it would fix this.

Staff Marks cast slow, the auto has a slow travel of 1.32 seconds as well. Mainhand Dagger just builds Life Force faster, and always will. Unless they just simply made Staff faster, then I don’t see it ever being used for Scourge unless the fight has a ton of adds, because Staff gives more Life Force per target. This may work in Fractals, but not for Raid bosses.

Not going to edit and rewrite this, but now that I think about it, in Fractals Staff may be great for speed clearing adds, and then switching to Mainhand Dagger for single target. Only thought this after realizing the Life Force gains with staff go up a ton when there are more targets to hit.

It will really depend on Life Force testing though. Will Mainhand Dagger, or Staff generate more Life Force in 9 seconds.

When I was testing it, I would spam Mainhand Dagger auto with Sand Shade skills, and then swap and use Feast of Corruption instantly. This would keep things flowing great, but the Demo will end soon, and I can’t test it with Staff now.

If anything Staff may be used for clearing groups of enemies fast on Scourge. If there are 5 Enemies the auto gives 20% Life Force, which is going to be insane for Sand Shade AoE.

Was thinking about it, and I think a good Condition to add to Mainhand Dagger would be Poison.

I had thought about wanting Torment on the auto attack, but I saw it being overpowered, also with Dagger having an Immobilize, it wouldn’t make much sense. I had thought about Bleeding then too, but it would just end up just stacking Bleeding faster than Scepter. I don’t want a future where if Dagger gets a Condition, then it’s just camped, and Scepter is only for Ranged in PvE.

Also if they removed the ICD on Demoic Lore for PvE in the future, it’d just be spam Dagger nonstop. For the best playstyle with adding a Condition to Dagger I just think Poison would be a good addition. Necro doesn’t have much Poison outside of Reaper Shroud 4, Corrosive Poison Cloud, part of the Scepter auto, and Chilblains on
Staff 3. All of these don’t amount to much, and can’t really stack a good amount reliably.

Also we wouldn’t even really have Poison Duration capped in PvE most likely, because I expect Torment or Balthazar Runes to be used. When looking at just a filler Condition to have when weapon swapping on CD for Life Force generation for Sand Shades. I just see this being fair.

Anyone else think adding Poison works?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

On Power, it’s high damage. On condition, it’s crap.

Low life force gain on condition weapons means you can EITHER A. have the shades actually do anything or B. be able to use the shades. You can’t do both right now. Net result is that you have 5 skills that effectively don’t do anything, because they either can’t be used or they only make up for what you’re trading off to use them in the first place.

If you swap to dagger, then you can use the shades, but at that point, all they’re doing is making up for the damage loss by swapping to dagger. You’re not getting anything out of them.

And yes, Reaper IS that much higher than core Necro. Deathly Chill puts out at least a third of Condi Reaper’s damage output, probably more.

Nobody is asking for Dagger to become a pure condi weapon, or even outpace Scepter in that regard. They’re just asking for a bit of damaging conditions on mainhand dagger to lessen the tradeoff and honestly buff an underpowered weapon.

This.

Scourge needs Dagger for Life Force generation already. It’s going to do more damage with Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch.

Dagger being used already, it’d make sense to add a Condition like Torment or Bleeding to it, hell even Poison.

It wouldn’t nerf Power in any way since Grieving stats are in PoF which are Berserker stats with Condition Damage.

I don’t get why people are arguing.

Axl.8924:

If its going to be a dps weapon for condi hybrid it better be useful and make you think about wether you want it then.

It would still be used for Power, but also Condition.

I made this thread on Reddit after seeing people talk about it here, and myself.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6uocsd/necromancer_dagger_suggestion/

I know there’s an extremely slim chance that Devs care or would notice, but Guardians begged for Symbols on Sword and Scepter, and got it.

Going to copy and paste for those that hate Reddit.

There’s been a lot of talk about this on the Necro forums, and comments in threads on Reddit, but I wanted to make a thread for Devs to see possibly.
Since Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch work well with Scourge as DPS, I was wanting to suggest adding Torment to the Mainhand Dagger auto attack.
This would buff base Condition Necro too, and Power builds by a bit.
There are multiple Power damage Mainhands for Power Necro, but not for Condition Necro. I think Torment on the Mainhand Dagger auto attack would make it a great addition to Condition Necros, and Scourge Necros.
I hope you guys will take suggestions from the Demo testing.

EDIT: With the addition of the Grieving stat for gear, this would be a buff to Power Reaper as well. Taking Soul Reaping instead of Blood Magic for Dhuumfire. Power Reaper would be a hybrid build, and any Power builds that do any Condition Damage will be buffed a good amount. This benefits both Power and Condi. Dagger will work for both Power and Condi

Zenith.7301:

The sand shades should have default sand savant size.

The radius of them is so ridiculously small, they’ll never work in pvp since they’ll be the new version of staff ele lava font.

I had a blast harassing people on points, and used the portal to teleport to people, use Trail of Anguish to cripple them, then drop the Shades since they were slowed, and it made them stay in the Shade’s radius longer. If you put them in a triangle over a point, it can hit everything, and the sides.

Fearing someone, then placing a Shade on top of them is fun too. I wasn’t perfect with placing them, but got them to hit people usually. They are great for LoS trapping.

I had a lot of fun in PvP.

People sure are mad in here :V

I actually had a blast using Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch in a PvE build, and Scepter/Torch Dagger/Warhorn in a PvP build.

I maintained around an even 5-6k for Torment, Bleeding, and Burning each. In the PvE build. In the PvP build it was just blowing everything up, and I was getting max damage and healing with my build, with 20+ kills. I underestimated Barrier in PvP with the Sage Amulet.

AoE wise Scourge caps at 20, and is ridiculous. Literally can Condition explode everywhere in Fractals and WvW.

I messed around with a build that could give around 70% max Barrier uptime. It was with the Sage Amulet. If Scourge does see Support play in Raids, if we get gear like Condition Damage/Healing main, and Expertise/Vitality. Then using just Dagger/Warhorn to spam Shade skills would do around 12-16k DPS, and be max Barrier extremely often with Might stacking.

All DPS will be higher in a month when we test in the Raid training place. I don’t understand how multiple classes are raging, but it’s whatever to me. I love Scourge. ;D

I just wish the Dagger Auto Attack did Torment :/

I love it, but I’m a PvE player. I see how it’d lack in PvP.

I love it so far for PvE. It has a 20 cap for AoE when everyone else has a 5 cap on AoE. In the kittenty PvP area I was keeping 4-5k Burns, 6-8k Bleeds, and 3-5k Torments. I expected Torment to be better, but meh.

I know in the raid training area Scourge will pull around 30k probably. I’m really interested into what our opener will be.

In PvP I understand people’s complaints. I just PvE mainly though, so yeah.

Would look way better on the Golem in the Raid training area. It’s really annoying we can’t test there.

Lahmia.2193:

What area of pve are you talking about? Because a lot of people keep saying dagger mainhand, but in general pve (roaming maps, doing meta events etc) life force generation is almost never a problem.

Raids and Fractals

Dadnir.5038:

Kam.4092:

Not every spec needs to shine in PvP. Scourge will shine in PvE and WvW, just stay Reaper and enjoy your Shroud. It’s not like you have to switch. If you care so much about Shroud, and only PvP, then don’t buy the expansion.

Scourge will shine in WvW, as for PvE, it may shine in event where there are a lot of mob involved but that’s all.

The problem is more that you take this thread as something directed toward the scourge while it’s a thread that talk about a general mechanism which is the shroud. You literally read it :

“What you are giving up by giving up the shroud”

While the thread is more :

“What the shroud make you give up”

Players with experience debate here about whether or not a few extra health point can rival extra dodge, invulnerability, mobility and block. The crux of the issue is that extra health point make for a limited defensive ressource while the other means tend toward the infinite.

If you want to involve the scourge in the discussion, you have to consider whether 2k extra health point for 2 seconds are worth an extra dodge or not. Or does 5k extra HP for 3 seconds are worth 3 seconds worth of continous block.

There are certainly pro and cons but one thing is sure if you need a short lasting defensive mean because you are forseeing an incoming burst block and dodge will forever be superior. On the other hand, if you need to soak up longlasting damage, a longlasting barrier would be perfect. Except that barriers are not longlasting.

The shroud on the necromancer have to many hats. It’s our supposed mean to do direct damage, move, support and defend ourselve. If you add to that the fact that it is decaying, the necromancer is undoubtely at a loss.

The Scourge change to shroud that free us from the worry of the shroud decay when we want to support and do damage is invaluable as an elite spec. However, the playerbase have the right to feel concerned by the loss of defense and mobility since a shortlasting health barrier is bound to underperform when it come to soaking burst damage and long lasting damages.

This is not players ranting because they’ve just been wrecked by another player and don’t want to aknowledge the fact that they are lacking in personnal skills while the other player wasn’t. This a general concern about the in game balance and the inability of the dev to really make an extra health bar perform at the same level of defense than the other mean of defense. This concern have been lingering since release and have been proven legit.

I guess I’m just more of a happy person, and have fun in the game with everything either way. If Scourge sucks I’ll still play it, and Raid like with Reaper, etc. Seeing people so upset a month before PoF is getting irritating.

We won’t even have a proper way to test DPS this weekend. It’s basically just wait around more. Before HoT people thought Elites would suck. Some did, then some ended up being great.

I would just rather be happy and play. I love Necromancer, and will always main it like in GW1.

I’m just a wait and see type of person, not a dread and fear type.

Zoltreez.6435:

Kam.4092:

Zoltreez.6435:

Kam.4092:

Durhurhur gonna judge an Elite’s Damage based on squishy golems, and survivability with no one hitting it hurhur. Man I know this Elite already having never played it, but I know it’s 100% bad. It will forever suck, and Anet scammed us. Hurhur I’m such an expert.

This is all I hear on this forum.

a person needs to be blind to not see the issues with the spec…
and yes those tests are enough to see majority of the probs…
and ALSO we have clear infos with numbers on abilities to make a comparison with and againts other stuff…….

just because you personaly presses the ability the Numbers on it wont be better or change lol….. Logic….

I can’t wait for the massive rage fest later today then. Necromancer players are the most emo and dramatic base in game. I play one happily.

we would not be if Necros would not miss soooo many Utilities….
utilities that are the core of nowdays PvP….

if we would have Reaper as a core spec with no expansions againts OTHER core specs it would be ALMOST fine in PvP …….
then every class got bloated with utilities and Reaper is just a joke compared to other classes…..
and it seems like Scourge will have almost exactly the same issues…. they not fixed ANYTHING on the new elite spec that the NEcromancer players asking for Years now….

of course we are all dramatic and Emo at this point….

we are SICK of being cannon fodder while being needed to be babysitted by other classes….

Makes me think of my 8 years as a Hunter in WoW. All Hunters acted like abused children by the devs.

If it bothers people so much, there are other classes.

Zoltreez.6435:

Kam.4092:

Durhurhur gonna judge an Elite’s Damage based on squishy golems, and survivability with no one hitting it hurhur. Man I know this Elite already having never played it, but I know it’s 100% bad. It will forever suck, and Anet scammed us. Hurhur I’m such an expert.

This is all I hear on this forum.

a person needs to be blind to not see the issues with the spec…
and yes those tests are enough to see majority of the probs…
and ALSO we have clear infos with numbers on abilities to make a comparison with and againts other stuff…….

just because you personaly presses the ability the Numbers on it wont be better or change lol….. Logic….

I can’t wait for the massive rage fest later today then. Necromancer players are the most emo and dramatic base in game. I play one happily.

Zoltreez.6435:

Kam.4092:

Not every spec needs to shine in PvP. Scourge will shine in PvE and WvW, just stay Reaper and enjoy your Shroud. It’s not like you have to switch. If you care so much about Shroud, and only PvP, then don’t buy the expansion.

Acting like shroud overall is good in PvP ….

XDDDDDDDDDDDDD

necro does not have a Single Spec that “shines” in PvP without help you know that right ?

Then pay someone to help you.

Durhurhur gonna judge an Elite’s Damage based on squishy golems, and survivability with no one hitting it hurhur. Man I know this Elite already having never played it, but I know it’s 100% bad. It will forever suck, and Anet scammed us. Hurhur I’m such an expert.

This is all I hear on this forum.

Not every spec needs to shine in PvP. Scourge will shine in PvE and WvW, just stay Reaper and enjoy your Shroud. It’s not like you have to switch. If you care so much about Shroud, and only PvP, then don’t buy the expansion.

Wintermute.5408:

At this rate, for PVE it will be scepter/dagger & dagger/torch, or vice versa. Because LF generation on condi is a kitten, and scourge can no longer get away with avoiding it.

Dagger/Dagger synergizes better because of Dark Pact with Deathly Swarm, and Corruptions.

Sublimatio.6981:

there is no way anything else than scepter/dagger + torch will be viable on scourge. (pve)
power, as bad as it is will still be better on reaper.

Depends how powerful we can stack Torment and Burning with the Sand Shades. If it does more than 9 seconds without Scepter, it will be a thing. Burning scales higher than other Conditions. It would be weapon swapping on CD always. If being without Scepter for 9 seconds equals more DPS, it will be a fun playstyle change. Scourge will burn through Life Force fast. Using all Sand Shade skills will do Torment and Burning. We will see tomorrow.

mazut.4296:

Kam.4092:

Aktium.9506:

Staff would need some pretty big changes to be a viable option for raids. I guess pulsing marks and torment on auto should right about do it.

Currently I’m sort of not looking forward to Scepter/Torch + Scepter/Dagger being the meta set. Pressing 1 with no fancy rotation like the current one in between 1 spam really isn’t all that fun.

I think there’s a high chance of it being Scepter/Torch + Dagger/Dagger.

More like scepter/dagger <> scepter/torch

I see it lacking Life Force. I made a thread on these forums explaining it for
PvE.

Aktium.9506:

Staff would need some pretty big changes to be a viable option for raids. I guess pulsing marks and torment on auto should right about do it.

Currently I’m sort of not looking forward to Scepter/Torch + Scepter/Dagger being the meta set. Pressing 1 with no fancy rotation like the current one in between 1 spam really isn’t all that fun.

I think there’s a high chance of it being Scepter/Torch + Dagger/Dagger.

Ramoth.9064:

Probably scepter warhorn to double down on the cripple. Really liking the scourge, its going to be a good 2v2 on node kind of class. Drop a shade on a point, your teammate is in it to contest and you can remotely affect the fight. If they over extend to focus on you, you can kite them relatively well while still having a shade to affect the point.

The shade skills sound really interesting

This thread was made about PvE

This was the Elite Spec Video shown today. This is the Scourge part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhBf1Q6gTnY&t=1743s

They are using a dagger to generate Life Force fast, and I was already thinking about this, but I had an idea that may be a good choice for Condition DPS in PoF’s Meta.

I was thinking Dagger Mainhand with Dagger Offhand, and Scepter/Torch. Dagger Mainhand synergizes well with Dagger Offhand, it has really fast Life Force regen, but also has Dark Pact, which in a way is similar to a Corruption Skill like Blood is Power. This makes the Corruption Deathly Swarm combo a bit more powerful, but the Mainhand Dagger also has Life Siphon which does more damage to bleeding targets. I know this won’t be used over the Auto Attack most likely, but it is a nice filler if you’re already capped, and need a quick powerful heal, with a bit of damage packed in with it.

If the damage from Shades really proves to be as big of an amount as it looked. With proper gear, and capped Condition Duration on your gear, then the Dagger Mainhand, and Dagger Offhand combo may work really well.

Starting with Scepter/Torch, then weapon swapping on cooldown, with a slight pause to synergize Dark Pact with the Deathly Swarm combo. The Sigils could be Geomancy, and Torment, but will most Likely be Malice/Geomancy, Earth/Geomancy, or Smoldering/Geomancy.

This is just a random idea. I am in no way trying to theorycraft. I just think that the downtime of 9ish seconds to regen Life Force to do the Shade Skills may be more DPS, than just camping Scepter forever.

What are other people’s thoughts?

I think the Ammo mechanic for Lich Form makes it super clunky, and underwhelming, I wish they kept the minion summons. It was an alternative for Condi on fights in PvE where the target moves a lot.

Signets, Minion Skills, or Wells with Ammo mechanics would be cool to me. I think it would work best with Minion Skills in PvE though.

Isn’t the Sand Shade mechanic Ammo based though?

Zoltreez.6435:

LOL all the people that actualy happy here plays condi… how suprising….

I play Condi cause I just love how it plays mostly, but still hate Deathly Chill. I’m super hyped for Scourge, and hoping they buff Reaper for Power more.

Also I mained Necro in GW1 with Ranger. In GW2 I do the same. Both of those classes I just have always loved.

I love how Condi Necro hurts itself to do more damage, and just love the overall themes of the Traits and skills. I think Necro has the best skill animations in the game. Scourge animations look amazing to me.

No matter the current state of Necro, it will always be my main Profession.

Sublimatio.6981:

I don’t want cReaper to be destroyed, why take away 1 thing when you can have both scourge and reaper work well with condi???

Two Condition Elite Specs wouldn’t make any sense. Also it would just be run Scourge over Condi Reaper anyway, because of not being crippled by Combo Fields in Raids. So Condi Reaper would be pointless. Reaper needs to be exclusively Power based.

Gaveon.6749:

In regards to the concern that Punishments will be useless in PvE

So i didnt try the demo, so this a question for those that have.
From what little we have seen of the new areas
Do the new enemies get boons that can be corrupted – or is it still early to say?

thanks,

I saw more Boons on enemies in the preview.

Only summon happiness in this thread. Say what you love about being a Necromancer.

Please put crying posts, and rage in this thread. You guys are kittenting up the forum by just making so many of the same threads with different titles.

I don’t know if you guys like overreacting, or if this is just how it is on the forums, but god kitten man.

Please have fun in here.

Lahmia.2193:

It’s 7 torment from Feast of Corruption btw.

I guess I just see it stay at ten then a lot because of Condition Duration, and stacks always stay up. Either way Scepter 3 got buffed recently, and will do way more with Scourge.

Anchoku.8142:

In Arenanet’s preview, Scouge was demonstrated with dagger/warhorn, not scepter/warhorn. I suspect that means something but am not sure how significant it is.

Something tells me that Scourge was meant to be a melee condi/support build rather than compete with scepter for mid-range kiting. If I had to guess, play style should be something like this:

Use scepter to kite when needed but close whenever possible, swap to dagger/horn, stack. share boons and barriers, then initiate dps burn – portal group as necessary.

This is kind of like stacking and well-bombing but should be much more flexible. The portal is probably meant to work smoother in combat than Mesmer’s port and add combat mobility to professions without ways to jump behind targets.

Barriers could be spammed taking some burden away from a dedicated healer. With shroud being little more than a thick personal barrier it should be used less often so regular healing AoE is effective more often. The addition of Blood Magic healing traits seem almost certain to make Scourge useful as an alternative healer.

I have no idea whether a toughness build might also enable Scourge to function as a secondary tank using Death Magic, provided there is a primary one, too. Minions draw plenty of aggro but are horrible versus AoE and I do not see much else in Death Magic to justify a build without them: Putrid Defense, Deadly Strength, and Corruptor’s Fever?

All classes use random non meta sets in previews, I just think they thought Dagger looked cool. Don’t read too into it lol

We can already add 10 stacks of Torment with Scepter 3 if the target has enough Conditions already on it. Also using 1,600 Condition Damage without Condition Duration for math is silly.

The 10 Stacks of Torment from Scepter 3 added with the other Torment skills, will have us maintaining an easy 26-30 stacks. Condition Duration is a huge part of Condition DPS.

Also unbuffed I have over 1,900 Condition Damage. In a Raid you have near 3,000 or over. When you have realistic buffs, and are Condition Duration capped, I’d expect 12,000+ ticks of Torment.

Torment just got buffed to be the same Damage as Bleeding, which is our other main Condition. I don’t think the Wiki has been updated yet with the new Torment Damage math. Yeah, it won’t be absurd stacks, but it will even out with not having Reaper anymore.

If the Burning had no ICD it may be very overpowered. If it is a problem though, they will remove it for PvE probably.

Torment and Confusion were buffed by 25% recently. The Wiki formula hasn’t changed yet.

Professor Sprout.1560:

Having mulled the scourge over for a while, I am presently of the opinion that it is something of a mixed bag. Here’s how I’d break it down:

I think DPS wise Scourge is fine, but it does have a lot of confusing abilities. There’s only one Punishment that can do a bit of DPS, but even its biggest part relies on removing a Boon. It does Torment, but also Torment on removing Boons, the Trait Demonic Lore adds Burning to Torment though.

Punishments are done sloppy. For PvE it will still be always bring Blood is Power, Epidemic, and now Corrosive Poison Cloud instead of Bone Fiend since no more Chill spam. Maybe the Punishment Heal will be ok, but probably not better than Bone Fiend for DPS and Heals.

I really don’t see Punishments being a part of DPS builds.

I see them being more for Support builds, which isn’t that bad, because Necromancer has a lot of good Condition skills already.

I am happy that there is an obvious DPS Trait set, and Support Trait set though.

I think the best thing about Scourge will no doubt be its DPS, but also the niche support it brings that no other class can.

For gear, if they added a Condition/Healing Power major, then Expertise/Precision minor set, then it’d be awesome for support. I just still see Viper being best unless they add like Condition Damage/Expertise major, then Power/Precision minor.

I love the Traits, and Torch. Torment is a huge plus from me, and the Expertise Trait, etc. I just am meh over Punishments. Even with Reaper we didn’t use Shouts really in PvE, I mean “Suffer!” Had its uses, but it never really shined. In WvW Shouts are amazing though. I just would like to use these Punishments for DPS, but they are all pretty much Support.

If Life Force is an issue, then Dessicate will be great. It looks to have a potential of restoring 50% Life Force. It also has a short CD traited with Sadistic Searing, and gives a bit of DPS Support. With Blood is Power and Dessicate it’s 15 stacks of Might.

The Torch’s 600 Range skill doesn’t really bother me too much. I mean in group content, etc you are usually stacking for buffs, and will always be able to hit that skill.

I mean using Trail of Anguish for the Burning on next Sand Shade summon with the Sadistic Searing Trait seems ok, it’s not huge though.

I’m still extremely hyped for Scourge though. Chill just has to go. The support potential of Scourge looks nice, and I look forward to having two builds to play for PvE(DPS and Support)

Zephar.4519:

I’ve pored over the traits and skills for Scourge as well as reading into possible builds, and I just cannot see Scourge being any good at sustained damage, nor having any unique selling points when it comes to group utility.

While WvW and SPvP veterans might ‘make it work’, strong-arming the class into specially tailored groups, the truth is it’s all extremely poorly put together. The Traits are shocking, often giving with one hand and taking with the other, every remotely interesting mechanic is shackled with ICD.
Then there are cooldowns; long, long cooldowns for extremely sub-par effects. The Utility section looks like a child wrote it. Torment and Cripple this Torment and Cripple that, all reliant on the enemy having Boons. The same Boons Warriors will be stripping every 1/2 sec with daggers? Torment and Cripple; two extremely underwhelming conditions.

I never wanted to come to a gloomy conclusion, but I just cannot see how this ‘Elite’ spec made it past testing.
When you compare the Traits to things like Potent Poison, Incendiary Powder, Modified Ammunition, Light on Your Feet… to draw from the new specs… Oppressive Superiority, Elemental Polyphony, Attacker’s Insight… It’s quite clear that Necromancer has once again been spat on.

The crushing truth is that Necromancer is a beloved class by those who play it a lot, and that would include me, it’s my favourite by a long shot; but it feels almost clear by now that the developers wish they had never bothered bringing it over from GW1. After 4 years of near abuse, Necromancer seems no closer to being uniquely ‘valuable’, and it genuinely seems it’ll be a snowy day in Hell before you ever read the words ‘Yeah get your Necro, we need the DPS’ in game chat.

Posts like these really don’t do anything, but make things seem worse than they are. Torment got buffed recently to match Bleeding, and when Scourge has a Trait that buffs it by 33% it will help a lot. Scepter 3 already does an instant 10 stacks of Torment when a lot of Conditions are on the target. With Scourge abilities and Traits I see us maintaining around 26-30 stacks of Torment easy. This paired with Bleeding, Burning, and Poison will be great in the end.

Of course with Boons to Corrupt, the stacks of Torment would be ridiculous though. I do think Raids in PoF will have Boons and Conditions to Corrupt and remove. Scourge and Spellbreaker will be needed for said mechanics.

Please cheer up. Gloom and doom isn’t good.

Scourge will be fine.

Dadnir.5038:

Well, from a PvE point of view :

- The Scourge shouldn’t be far from the reaper’s power dps, perhaps even a bit ahead with the help of alacrity.
- From the condi side, due to a lack of boon to corrupt, the reaper should be ahead by a small margin in regard of dps.
- For survivability, it shouldn’t really matter since the 2 spec should have a very different playstyle. (Not that it really matter in PvE, after all 12k hp ele survive there why would a Scourge die?)
- For support, there sure should more than what the reaper dish out, however, I doubt that there is any room for that kind of support… maybe at PoF release because of the novelty, like the rezzing trait at HoT release.

The Scourge should be welcome in WvW, well that’s probably where it’s playstyle can shine the most. It’s tools couldn’t be more fitting.

- Crippling and tormenting enemies zergs.
- Dispelling allies conditions.
- Tons of boonhate.
- Ability to stay afar.
- Ability to port your allies over a short distance to avoid bothersome aoe.

As for PvP, I think the scourge shouldn’t be to lost. There will be boons to corrupt and condition to cure so it shouldn’t be a dry desert for him to have some use. But what I think should be it’s greatest strenght will be it’s ability to aoe “burst” (both for power and condi) with the help of desert shroud. The survivability shouldn’t be to shabby either after being accustomed to the new playstyle which should be less “straightforward”.

I don’t get what you’re saying. You’re saying it will be near Power Reaper DPS, then saying it will be behind Condition Reaper by a small margin.

That’s like saying it will do 25k DPS, then saying it will do 32k.

Scourge will not do more than the current cancer Chill spam build, but it will even out greatly, and will end up doing more overall simply because hitting Ice Fields 100% is impossible in group settings. It crippled us, and it being gone will make Scourge a more reliable, and consistent DPS. Without Chill spam, Condition Necro can do around 26k. With Scourge adding more access to Burning and Torment, a Torment 33% Damage buff Trait, and a Torch. I see it making up the 6k DPS gap between Condi Reaper easy, and then probably a bit more. Add in the support side, and it will be awesome.

For WvW Scourge will be insane. I don’t PvP enough to know how it’ll be. I just know in WvW with mass Boon Corrupt, and Torment combined with Barrier, it will be a great midline support DPS.

Again for the hundredth time, we haven’t even seen how Scourge performs in the new Raids, and in general. Automatically assuming the worst is silly. Every profession is doing this, and saying their next Elite Spec will suck for no reason.

Also next weekend, when it’s the Elite Spec preview. I expect everyone to freak out for no reason, and act like testing Elites on PvP Golems, and WvW enemies proves something.

I don’t see us struggling with Life Force as Condition DPS, but we might as Support DPS.

1%-2% Life Force on the Scepter auto chain, being 3%-6% on a full auto chain would be cool.

Silv.9207:

The deathly chill that inflict 1 bleed is only in sPvP, in PvE and WvW you inflict 3 bleed every chill. And is like this since ever, at last in sPvP.

That’s true, people like to overreact (I’m in this side), and tomorrow we’ll be able to see how will be that new elite in PvE, WvW and sPvP.

My hope is big but we’re necros and ANet don’t like when we inflict high damage or obtain survavibility, then I don’t bet on the High condi dps side, not with that elite.
But maybe a good support should be a way to make a spot in Raids and Fractals for the necro.

It’s next week, not tomorrow for the Elite Specs. Tomorrow is map preview.

Xarius.6120:

I have seen videos about the next expansion changes, and read a lot of rage here, so I would like to make you consider something:

About the “nerf” of deadly chill trait of the Reaper: 1 stak of bleeding; yes I saw it, but the character was in PvP lobby, where traits and skills can be different, and it is already like it. We don’t know if it will be the same in PvE and WvW.

And an upgrade last night, about 2 conditions formulas:

Confusion: Base damage has been increased to match bleed’s base damage; skill-activation damage has been reduced to compensate for this. This change only applies to PvE.

Torment: Base damage has been increased to match bleed’s base damage; movement damage has been reduced to compensate for this. This change only applies to PvE.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-August-8-2017-3

I remember Scourge inflicts torment quite good (but probably mesmer and revenant will be more happy about it).

People just love overreacting, and complaining. Every new Elite Spec is getting this stuff said about it.

Scourge will be a great Raid DPS, and will probably have a great support build. I see it filling Meta DPS and Support roles, but everyone loves to be mad and call everything bad. It’s the MMO world after all.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Just crunched the numbers and with Vital Persistence traited, Scourges should be able to hit 100% general Condition Duration in raids. This is without Alacrity, so don’t assume that Soul Reaping will be absolutely necessary.

Full Vipers gear alone is +42.2%
2 Trapper, 4 Nightmare adds +30% (total 72.2%)
Sigil of Malice is +10% (total 82.2%, 100% on Bleeds)
Having 2 Shades up is +10% (total 92.2%, 100% on bleeds) (with Vital Persistence reducing recharge by 20%, 2 shades always up should be simple)
With Torch Trait, another 109 Expertise for +7.266% (total: +99.466%
And with Food, obviously hitting the full 100% with ease.

I really hope they add a Rune with Condition Damage and Condition Duration. I hate using Nightmare and Trapper.

Krait or Torment may be good Runes in the future. The expansion will probably have best in slot Runes though, so everything now is meh, and will change in 6 weeks.

You’re not overthinking.

The Elite will be a heavy Condition Elite, and should do great DPS. The Grandmaster also increases Torment damage by 33%.

Also in the expansion, from what I’ve seen of the new zone, I see enemies doing way more Boons.

In Fractals Torment will be amazing, because there is a lot of fights with moving enemies and bosses. In Raids it will be a wait and see for the new ones.

If Deathly Chill doesn’t get changed, I still see Scourge being the go to Condition Spec, mainly because of not needing to rely on Combo Fields.

I’m not expecting an extreme amount of Torment damage, but seeing like 12k-14k+ ticks will be seen probably. We will have more access to Burning too, and with Punishments causing our Sand Shades to do Burning when being summoned.

I see the spec being great PvE wise, and see a good DPS side, and support side. Don’t take the current hate talk on it too seriously. It’s not even been tested properly yet, and won’t be until September 22nd.