Guild Wars 2

You can pretty much still use D/P / SBfor most content in HoT while you level up your DD. After that, you can use Staff / SB with dash to get around. 5 all day and it kills a lot of things, then switch to sb and kite a bit, then switch back to staff and 5 some more. That gets you through a lot of it LOL. >_>

Einlanzer.1627:

It’s mostly that they do just as much damage as Thief, generally (more in some situations), they deal that damage more easily than thief (simpler AoE targeting and “hooking” mechanisms), AND they have much better survivability with their higher base health and heavy armor. They’re also highly versatile.

Thanks for the reply, yeah this is what attracted me to the Rev in the first place, but I don’t wanna just auto attack and anything other than that hurts my DPS. In high fractals with Thief I feel that there’s nothing I can do short of vaulting in a few times, then dodging out, and waiting. Then I could SB spam but that’s it, and overall I feel really useless :<

Einlanzer.1627:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Cool, glad to hear it’s doable, if difficult (which is to be expected tbh). I’m generally impressed with rev atm, it’s a much more chilled out experience than thief since it has ways to deal with stuff other than just dodging better haha xD

I don’t have any issues playing at the level I’m at but just wanted to check really, I don’t want to get to higher levels then find out people won’t party with me or something dumb like that.

Thief and Rev have been my two mains over the years, and tbh, it blows my mind that anyone defends the Thief in PvE. When I switch back to my Thief from my Rev, the difference in attrition and overall effectiveness is completely laughable. It seriously feels like I have to play twice as hard to be half as effective, and I spend more time downed than I do healthy. Maybe my build needs to be tweaked, but even a bad build shouldn’t make that much of a difference.

I’ll probably never go back to Thief full-time unless they’re completely remade from the ground up.

I posted this in another thread, but seeing as you’re also a Thief main, I have to ask you, what makes Rev good? From the skills I see Rev looks more like a Thief than Thief does lol, but that’s just aesthetics. Initiative lets us do a bunch of attacks and combo fields or whatever, but in PvE I feel like I’m just too squishy and stuck in Shortbow most of the time. Then I found out that Rev just Auto attacks to victory? That seems kind of crappy to me.

I wanted to play Rev so bad when HoT came out, because of the massive weapon pool and skill swapping it takes, but then I found out that auto attack is its best DPS option? That kind of killed my hype for Rev. I played a lot of Thief and was looking for a change of pace. I haven’t unlocked all of Herald yet so I don’t know what that experience is going to be like.

I’m returning too, my ranger was my first character ever in GW2 since beta, and was the first I finished the game with. I’ve since hung her up for my Thief, but after so long I feel like ANet made Thieves a PvP / WvW only class. I’m picking up my Ranger again, but I’m lost where to start. I am currently using LB / S/A on Druid, but I feel like I’m still playing Ranger. Can I use staff and be useful for PvE? I heard they nerfed staff recently.

Cynz.9437:

Nowhere. Devs changed and new devs decided that thief should be nerfed to the point that they can only
- decap empty point (because clearly other classes can’t do it lol)
- +1 almost dead enemy (because clearly other classes can’t do it lol)

But heeeeyyyyy thieves have dat amazing mobility…. that buys them about 1 sec before enemy arrives on point. Under the line, you need to be 10 times better than you enemy on thief to be somewhere remotely as effective.

You want a unrewarding challenge with lot of stress and disappointment or be a hipster, or both? Play thief.

I left for almost a year, and this was the case before. I’m glad to see things haven’t changed.

I just wanna do 5 digit backstabs I feel terrible when rev auto attack does more than a backstab with no revealed cooldowns.

It’s just called the “I’mma call my buddies” build.

I’ve actually found that Venomshare is pretty strong with buddies that tag along with you

So Thief is going to +1 on Raid bosses too?

I actually have a question about heals. On a specialized build, do you think Rev heals better or Druids? I’ve heard mixed things about both and I’m not sure which I should take into HoT raids / dungeons.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Lamuness.3570:

Currently, my ranger is equipped with Zerks (obv), so I’m in the market for new gear just for Druid. So you’re recommending a mix of Settler’s + Celestial? What about Zealot’s w/ Ranger runes or something?

To answer you directly, I need you to tell me which content is your goal. Open world / raids / fractals / WvW / dungeons ?

Oh I’m sorry I thought I specified in my post, haha. I’m mostly playing raids / fractals / dungeons. Anything PvE generally. Open world stuff I’m not too worried about since anything can win in that.

Tragic Positive.9356:

With the latest update (intended or not) there is a way to play a hybrid way.
Celestial / Condi – these two fellas are amazing.

You just need a source of regeneration or healing (Healing Spring, Nature Magic + Warhorn trait, Beast Mastery of shouts or Natural healing) and the rest goes up to you.
Celestial might stacking is not half bad, but conditions (settler?) are probably better since you’ll have more of the important stats.

If we are talking about PvE well … I don’t know what to say. There are currently at least tens of those hybrid options. Even berserkers can dish out enough healing for casual content.

Currently, my ranger is equipped with Zerks (obv), so I’m in the market for new gear just for Druid. So you’re recommending a mix of Settler’s + Celestial? What about Zealot’s w/ Ranger runes or something?

Is it possible to get a decent DPS build with a decent amount of heals? Or do you have to specialize in one or the other?

I feel like I camp in SB because I HAVE to, at least in HoT PvE I’d much rather be backstabbin foo’s. But it’s turned into that unsuspecting towel slap :<

Palm strike activates when the last hit of flurry hits, right? Couldn’t we just precast it and steal into it?

Thanks for all the advice! This is awesome!

Cool I’ll try it out. I came up with something sort of similar, but I think I may opt for bound instead of dash and impact strike instead of basilisk. Thanks!

I picked up thief because I liked stabbing some fools in the back for tons of damage, but that’s been nerfed to the ground. Currently, I am really enjoying the idea of a martial arts or ninja-like character. So I am currently using Staff but I’m not sure if this could be the best thing to use for it.

I am not really good at making builds, so I am asking you guys, what do you think is a good weapon set to use with focus around being martial arty with Fist Flurry / Impact Strike? I guess if I wanted to be sort of ninja-like I’d use distracting daggers. I kind of want to fit in Impacting Disruption too somewhere, but it might be asking for too much. This would be for PvE and/or PvP.

Also, if I interrupted someone with Palm Strike, and I have Impacting Disruption, does this give me 2 stacks of Pulmonary Impact? It seems like I could theoretically have a thing that bursts for 10kish dmg O_O.

Hi my name is Lamuness, and I have a problem.

I keep clicking on this thread, everyday. I need to stop. It is hurting everyone around me. I feel like every time I click in here, there is going to be something fun, but it really, really makes me miss people like Burnfall. I only end up disappointed, and I need cut this out of my life.

You guys are forgetting how freakin’ OP Thief is. Literally, Thief can kill you with one arm tied behind his back. 5 skills? I only need 2.

I picked up thief because I wanted to be ultra stabby. I liked backstabbing the Dredge fractal boss for 100k+ damage. In PvP, landing a 12k backstab was always a dream, but now they’re just measly 5k when everyone has at least 18k health. I don’t know what D/D needs to function competitively, but I just wanna stab people for high amounts of damage IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR?!

Is there an advantage for using the new heal skill vs withdraw? Seems you’re using it more.

Taxidriver.2043:

staff is so Op I feel like Chuck Norris

Zero Day.2594:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Lamuness.3570:

Am I the only one who misses Burnfall? lol.

I literally said this exact phrase a couple months ago, he would’ve been here like:

Friends, Anet have given us Revenants, but it seems thieves are the ones being haunted by their ghosts and demons of the past!

More like:

Friends,
ANet has realized the oppression that thieves caused to other players by their unfair and unchallenging low risk high reward game play.
They have given us the Revenant! A crusader of justice for the oppressed.
Unite brethrens to fight the unhealthy and not fun game play of thieves.
Use the scrapper to combat the unfair stealth that the thieves have.
Use the ranger to combat the unchallenging low risk high rewards that thieves get, by taunting with a pet.

Yeah… I miss burnfall. Same with darksyze a bit, he kind of buzzed off when I told him to play a thief for a month and then come back and talk… Wonder how that went for him.

LOL Yes you nailed this! At least he was poetic with the trolling. You’re the best!

Am I the only one who misses Burnfall? lol.

I’ve been trying out DareDevil Staff almost exclusively since HoT dropped. Does any one else feel like it is just 5 → 2 → dodge a few times → 5 → 2? I feel like if I’m not in Staff, I should just SB and tag everything because I’m going to die if I don’t.

I’m new to condi builds, what is a good average number your bleeds / poison should be ticking at in PvE / PvP? I’m not sure if my build is optimized enough because the numbers I see that are ticking seem low to me. This is because every time I play against a Necro or Engineer or whatever they seem to drop my HP down super low as well as put a ton of conditions on me at the same time that seem to tick for a TON.

So far, I’ve used Impact Strike → Uppercut → Fist Flurry → Palm Strike → Steal with Sleight of Hand, it completely breaks Mad King’s break bar. I think if you added a Pulmonary Impact to the end of the finisher it would be nice, but I’m not sure how you could balance this if you’re playing WvW or PvP, especially if you do this on someone who isn’t going to die from your combo alone. It sounds like it would make it deal a ton of damage.

Oh, you requested it as a PvE only trait. Hah. I can’t read :<

Isn’t this what people said about Archeage? Good luck on your travels. We will still be here hopefully.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

What I find interesting about all this despair is that I’ve heard it all before. It was on the necro forum. It was on the memser forum. It was on the ranger forum (still is, kind of). It was on the ele forum. It was on the warrior forum. It is currently on the guardian forum. It was on the engi forum, too, and they’re the most chill forum. Throughout this game’s life, there has been several points on every single forum where the class collectively jumps onto the all is vain train and convulses violently on the floor, hoping that it will get the devs to love them a little bit more.

It is the exact same arguments, too. “Oh, I came up with a bunch of things that I wanted and the devs didn’t do what I want so the devs don’t love me!!!”. Follow through with the same “X does better than my class”, “I’m quitting my class”, “If it weren’t for X we wouldn’t even be viable”, so on and so forth. No introspection, no concern for other classes, no self doubt. Times like this I resent the fact that the internet is mostly mid-pubescent teenagers.

And every time it is wrong. The class gets buffed while others get nerfed, and then there is a wave of “this class is OP bring it down!” for the next several weeks. It has happened to every class, sometimes multiple times. The doom and gloom was wrong the last dozen times it happened, it is wrong now, and it will be wrong the next dozen times it happens. It feels like I’m the only guy with a memory here.

So, what makes the thief so special, where other classes (Rangers and Guards, in particular) are worse off and have more legitimate complaints in all forms of the game? When other classes were in objectively worse positions throughout GW2 history? So far, only that thieves whine the hardest.

With this in mind, I wonder if it’s just lack of creativity that Thieves are in the place they are. If you are saying how every class has gone through this and yet, those classes STILL got nerfed, this suggests to me that the devs know something about some sort of synergy with traits or sigils or armor that causes them to be broken as hell, and we haven’t found it yet. Much like how no one used S/D until someone found how broken the old Feline Grace was with it, I wonder if there is another stat combo or way of playing that we haven’t figured out yet.

I am saying this because I play fighting games, and in Marvel vs. Capcom 3, Jill was considered to be bottom half of the tier list. Yet when Ultimate Marvel 3 came out, she was nerfed to hell because there were things that she had that broke the game entirely. It was a big head scratcher because no one knew why they would have nerfed her in the first place.

Edit : putting the quote back in.

I played thief initially because I wanted to insta-gib people. But damage and tankiness have shifted over time, and I feel like other classes do this much better. An Engie can drop me in a second, as well as power necros, and any good mesmer / ele.

I hate SB as well. If we had weapon swap cooldown reduction like Warriors, it would be a better set. On that note, why does Warrior get swap cooldown? Aren’t we supposed to be the masters of weapons?

You’re also looking at it wrong. You’re forgetting the amount of Evades that S/D gets and how you can basically keep an enemy at max distance w/ P/D while inflicting conditions. There’s a bunch of synergy with the rest of the game mechanics and stealth is not the end all-be all mechanic for us. But yeah, D/P is the most versatile set. D/D gives you access to damaging backstabs, P/P allows you to pew pew from range for >5~7k per unload. You can’t look at these sets in a vacuum based on stealth, aa speed, and cleave.

I finally went and tried all the new elite specs, and DrD seems to be the weakest in terms of cool effects / skills / mechanics. As others have said above, I feel like DrD is going to be really fun for PvP, but in PvE, I don’t know if it has a place because it really doesn’t seem like there is a focus for what role this class should play.

I think it’s kind of crappy that you can’t stay in a fight vs. Necro or any other class at that. Especially in sPvP, you have to reset the fight, which means running the hell away as far as possible, then coming back. I don’t know why this rubs me the wrong way.

If you’re a masochist, run D/P. Otherwise, it is suggested that you run S/P for the BPS and Pistol Whip in dungeons. That being said, I run P/P just fine in fractal 40. I also run D/D for no apparent reason. I don’t play meta stuff, so don’t listen to me ;P

Did DB just reflect projectiles? I think I saw it at 25:10 or so on the PoI stream.

I MEAN, if Glen Levy can do this thru a phonebook, imagine what a “Daredevil” can do with a stick thru armor.

Kageseigi.2150:

Thieves are great at dying.

^This.

Guys, you’re missing the point. Our role is to +1 to the enemy team’s score.

Sheathed long sword would be SO HYPE. Iaijutsu ferrealz!

This build looks really fun! I was messing around with D/D trapper, but that didn’t seem to work out too well for my playstyle. Maybe D/P would work better. Thanks for the idea!

I’ve never played a full glass D/D in WvW before. I should try it now. I’d love to hit a 20k BS, but I don’t even have enough points to get the atk stat increase from guards, nor do I have WvW infusions because I still play fractals.

Thanks DeceiverX

DeceiverX, I know I haven’t been on the boards much, nor have I played much, but I still have yet to see a max damage post patch from you.

That being said, for me, “better” would be more dmg. Can you point me to it? I’m looking for a good D/D to run. I’ve always been D/P pre-patch.

I think the main stigma against this weaponset is the lack of defenses and 333333333333333333 to victory. That being said, I like having 3 Thieves all hitting unload at the same time. It’s the same reason why I love using pistol on my Mesmer.

I don’t think those weapon sets apply any sort of meaningful conditions at all, so my answer would be no.

Really, I must try out Vamp runes. This makes sense, but Pack seems better to me ATM.

IGN: Felyne Minyu
Playstyle: PvE / sPvP (Hotjoin)
Server: Magooba
Experience with thief: Played since about a month after release, started off with Ranger, with full regrets on making my Thief an Asuran and not a human. I always like to try out funky builds, but main D/P or P/P. I can’t S/x for the life of me. Still a scrub at PvP but I can hold my own, and understand my own mechanics. Rarely WvW because my friends don’t do it often, but I would love to run with a small roaming group. I play a lot of fighting games and it allows me to understand player tendencies.

That first fight… If that was me, I would have been engaging on that Warrior, and then that Mesmer would have showed up before I was done, and then another Warrior and possibly an engie, and the enemy team would have all the other points. -_- That warrior did not dodge your whirling axe at all lol.

The next fight vs Ele I would have had 5 AoEs stacked on top of me from that guardian as I would have tried to stomp him, or I would have gotten launched :\

I never get the stars to align where my own teammates to help me out like yours has during extended fights :\ Great video, I wish I could play D/P like that.

Maybe it’s because Thieves actually read the forums? lol

EDIT

Godkitten , the typos on this survey. Cringe

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I don’t believe I directly attacked the messenger.

I know, it’s just that sometimes instead of stating the obvious that our class is flawed, I’d like to try to steer the thread to something a bit more constructive.

I’d like to hear directly from ANet why they feel Thieves are in the place that they are. I agree with you that there are only a handful of viable builds and they have no room for customization. I’d like to think that they’ve found something broken with the class that we’re overlooking, which is why they’re keeping their mouths shut and balancing our class the way that they do. But I agree with this statement :

Edit: There’s also another reason why Thieves are being treated like the Assassin, it’s because the same person who “balanced” GW1 is the same person “balancing” GW2. ArenaNet needs to hire someone with fresh perspective and fresh ideas and not sticking with the same old same old.

I see the value in everyone’s opinion here, and sadly, we’re attacking the messenger (Terror) and not the ones behind it (ANet). There’s nothing Terror can do except for give us his opinion on what works for him, and it’s up to us to take it, try it out, and hope for the best, or to just pick another class.

Sadly, I’m not in the position where I can pick another class because they all function too differently to what I’m used to, even though I would like to pick a better class and be helpful.

And thanks, Vincent, however it’s the same argument I’ve been hearing since GW1 about Assassins, and unfortunately I hope people will not give up and try to make the class work.

I just don’t know if a Thief class is suitable for conquest. When I played on Courtyard, I had a blast. If Arenanet could implement Arenas (hiyo) better, then I think that is where Thief shines the most. You don’t have to worry about capping points, you can be mobile and port around anywhere, disengage, kick a cow, do whatever you want. The fact that we are locked into this tiny circle that every other class can drop a ton of AoEs on makes us a bit unusable.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and I don’t claim to be the best thief in the world.

Before this gets out of hand into a slugfest, I would like to hear from Vincent, as per OP’s topic title:

What are a thief’s strengths in sPvP currently, and how do we go about playing to our strengths? What should we be looking for and what should we avoid? This thread isn’t about what is wrong with thieves but how we can get around and be effective in sPvP.

I’d ask terror, but he made that video (thanks for that btw!)