Guild Wars 2

frans.8092:

Meta-builds exist because most peopleare afraid to fail their group.

More like their group will instantly outcast, neuter, ridicule, berate, and otherwise be obscenely offensive to people who don’t run optimal crap.

I feel like I get immob’d more often than not. I run SS and RoI for it, but it’s not enough because it seems like even though I get out of the way of the next big attack coming in, I still get caught in some AoE or something especially from a Necro or Mes. Warriors are ok because I’m getting better at dodging them / interrupting them. Or like a S/P / S/D thief that spams 2 to just keep getting me immob’d. What do you do when faced with this?

Loki.8793:

You want to play d/p in sPvP? Then just go meta.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVlsMpypdPx0J8PNBNBt9EGeE8OMfpMaFAA-TZBFwACOFAI3fYxRAoaZAAPAAA

If you can’t kill someone with this, then you’re playing it wrong.

I guess I’m playing it wrong. I only play in hotjoins because I don’t have time to look for a party, but even then, I keep getting outnumbered, so I’m forced to run away. It’s not suited for 2v1, nor is it suited to kill certain classes. I keep dying and it’s getting really frustrating. I’ve never seen a video of a meta d/p thief. Can someone make one?

While I have nothing meaningful to add to this conversation, I must applaud you guys, especially Einlanzer and Xae for keeping the discussion civil. You guys are extremely patient with each other and that is awesome. I wish more forum posts were like this.

I’ve learned a lot about hybrid D/D and why DB is a good / bad skill, along with the theories and concepts related to power vs condi builds. I want to theorycraft my own P/P viable build, but I never found anything that wasn’t cookie cutter.

Anyway, discuss on!

Yishis used a combination of Zerker / Soldier’s for WvW, no? Is this still viable?

Can you explain how x/P counters S/D? There doesn’t seem like there’s anything I can do as I get downed before I can do anything. I can’t heartseeker into stealth properly otherwise I’ll die. I currently use D/P in PvP and I find that it’s hard to deal with S/D.

Ugh, I hate how a “viable pve / dungeon” thief has to be S/P / SB. I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, but it sucks :\

I’ve used Venom Share w/ P/D or S/P with some success. It’s something also worth looking into.

I like using P/P / P/D with ricochet for funzies.

Hello, for the ascended pieces, on the wiki it says Account bound, but when you infuse a colored one it says Soulbound on use.

Can anyone verify whether or not these become soulbound after color + infuse?

Ghostwolf.9863:

Thief is the opposite of necro in terms of strength and weaknesses.

Clearly a lie because I’m sure a thief necro’d this thread.

For S/D vs. D/P matchup, I feel like most S/D just stick to my face and try to LoS me by running behind me while cleaving all over the place. I generally get dropped before I have any opportunity to set up anything, even if I’m standing inside BPS. How do you deal with that/them? Also, Immob on demand, gets me into trouble most of the time.

I’ve been running D/P in sPvP for a long time, with inconsistent success. From the list you’ve put up of favorable matches, it sounds like we’re just designed to take out other glass classes lol.

I am currently running 2/6/0/0/6, I’ve been running 5/6/0/0/3 for a while and you do get to drop enemies faster, but the loss of boon stealing is not worth it in my case. Stealing 15stacks of might from an ele / guardian / warrior makes up for it.

Is P/D completely Condi spec? Is there a way to make it work with power? Or is it just better as a condi spec?

This playstyle seems pretty interesting, I may try this one day.

Fair enough. lol. Sorry I didn’t mean to sound like I was accusing you of what you are talking about. I just wanted to know what the thought process for that gear is. I’m enlightened Thanks!

Is there a reason why you’re running Assassin’s instead of Zerker? Doesn’t power hit harder when you crit at this point? Your crit chance seems pretty high already.

babazhook.6805:

I have tweaked my own P/p build around a bit and it keeps getting better .

First and foremost the Crit rate is 86 percent WITHOUT any fury. That means it always 86 percent.

There no stealth at all it a 2/6/0/6/0 build.

Sigil of Strength on one Pistol.
Sigil of frailty on the other.

Sundering strikes from the DA chain then practiced tolerance , pistol mastery and executioner out of CS.

S/d is the off hand set and I put a sigil of purity on one weapon and sigil of genorisity on the other.

The runes are Runes of strength.

Withdraw/RFI/Signet of Agility/Shadowstep/daggerstrom.

I have built 10 stacks of might just from the unloads. Coupled with that you have two sources of vulnerability on crit which generally sees around 12 stacks on an enemy though it can go even higher.

Vital shots are hitting for 1.4k . Unloads can hit for over 1k per hit.

The vulnerability coupled with might equates to a source of damage of another 20 percent on an ongoing basis which can be built much higher. I have had 14 stacks of might and laid down 16 Vulnerability stacks on occasion when everything clicks. (36 percent more damage)

You have to keep range. If your shadowstep not enough for the condition cleanses switch to s/d which with Genorisity and purity can clean a lot off in a hurry. (2 cleanses plus the infiltrators cleanse every 10 seconds is not all bad)

The S/d set even with those two sigils will hit hard in its own right. (You can also use p/p and p/p with one set used to cleanse)

Steal gunk followed by an unload can really load the confusion on

What are you using for acro tree? I’m always confused as to what should go in here.

Thanks Tachii, I feel the same way. I suppose I named the topic incorrectly, but those builds definitely sound fun. I was just thinking about how maybe some life leech build or something like that would be sort of viable.

Ok, without being judgemental. I am being nice and respectful, so please if you don’t have anything to add, don’t post.

Plus it says, FUN because I don’t pug.

Does anyone have any ideas for any fun builds for Fractals / Dungeons? I’ve tried running P/P, S/P venomshare, D/P / D/D DPS.

I run mainly with a group of friends, and I still want to be useful, I’m just really bored with running mainly D/P / D/D.

Any help would be appreciated!

Shouldn’t that be the reward of having such an organized team? Trying something like that seems much harder than you’re making it out to be. It’s a lot harder to time 5 backstabs than it is to say, time 5 shatters.

I went into Mists to test this out. 6/6/0/0/2 for funzies, on Hidden Killer. CnD on Med armor, Backstab → 6.8k. OK. CnD on same Med Armor, 1→ f1 to Backstab, still 6.8k. Didn’t make much of a difference. Am I doing it wrong?

Wow, I have so much problems with Mesmer, I can hardly count thieves as a hard counter to Mes, yet everyone says they are. But if you’re telling me to bring a set like SA : x/D into PvP you’ve got another thing coming to you. It’s such a selfish build to be running in pvp. Assuming this isn’t for PvP, can one show me videos of this high level thief play vs. a good mesmer? Outside of chain CnD’ing, I feel like there’s nothing I can do against them.

This is not a reply of “You guys don’t know wtf you’re talking about”, rather, I’m trying to L2P because Mesmers, Necros, and Engies give me the MOST problems. Wth am I doing wrong?

So I tried to do this, and it doesn’t seem to add any damage to it. Patched?

I like your damage and how often you hit CnD. I can’t do that :\ What’s the armor / runes you running?

I want a 15k backstab

Narkodx.1472:

You guys have your opinion and I have mine. I been roaming in WvW since the game was released. You simply do NOT have the sustain without SA to defeat top tier players on REAL dueling builds. Not garbage zerglings running bearbow. I am talking about a 2k+ Condition damage perplexity thief/necro/engineer. The one where you take 3 grenades and half your health is gone. But whatever, run around with no SA and you will eventually run into those classes/builds and complain that conditions are OP.

I don’t intend on dueling classes specifically. I do run into the occasional 1v1 because I just happened to step into their territory. And then at some point or another they have like 3 or more teammates that just happen to walk by and I get killed :\. I’m less worried about that and more worried that I won’t be useful in a large or small group. I also don’t intend on actively roaming either. It seems really boring to run long distances by myself. I like small team fights.

ryan.6217:

yeah i hate running SA. TO ME it encourages sloppy gameplay,“oh i took dmg, better go stealth and wait it out” and i dont mean that offensively, but when you go full SA you get a lot of wiggle room with the condi removal, blind, health per second stealth combo.

When you’re in wvw it is a good idea to pop 2 points into it AT LEAST for that condi removal on stealth. It’s not necessary, but if you’re not running a sword set it is pretty helpful. That’s my 2 cents

I agree with this statement, but I guess I’m just being a hipster like that.

Dee Jay.2460:

Shadow Arts has soooooo many good traits that add survivability and longevity, all just in Tier 1.

So it sounds like I should find space for it somewhere to put 2 pts into SA. I’m ok with that. I’ll give it a shot the next time I decide to go into WvW.

Thank you for all the responses!

So it seems like you’d go into SA for Shadow Embrace just to clear some condis. So I’m wondering is there a SA build for D/x? 0/6/6/0/2 perhaps? Or maybe I can try 2/6/2/0/2 for Shadow Embrace. I’m currently running a mix of zerk / soldier gear, with wurm runes because I’m poor.

I’m seeing a trend in SA being used in every WvW build that isn’t acro. I love seeing large bursty numbers, but it seems like in order to survive you have to run SA. I don’t like it because I get less damage, and I think this is what contributes to the Thief hate. Not that I care what other players on the opposing team thinks, I just want to be useful, at the same time, playing how I like to. I don’t like being Acro, which is why S/x never works for me. Is there a viable way of playing thief in WvW without the use of SA? I feel like I deal so little damage if I run that.

Oh crap. Wtf was I thinking, of course it was 2/6/0/0/6. Sorry!

Highlie.7641:

Larcenous strike will take Full stacks (so if a warrior has 25 stacks of might you will take them all)
Bountiful theft on the other hand will only give you 1 stack of might. (instead of all 25)

Weird thing is I tested this last night, I had a friend empower on his guardian and I stole from him, I stole the whole stack of 12 might. Maybe they consider might stacks as one whole stack?

dDuff.3860:

Try classic trickery build wi s/d with runes of strenght and sigil of strenght – stealing might from engis and warriors is your bread and butter. LS can crit up to 7k on some squishies. Yes, you’re less tanky but you are not supposed to stay on a point fighting warriors and engis, i mean you’re thief huh! Subtlety and planning is your way to play. At least for me. I’m not judging you just giving my 2 cents.

Standard Trickery? 5/6/0/0/3? What traits would you use? I tried this with S/D and it didn’t come up with anything good

Lately I’ve been trying to get into WvW, but I can’t. I feel like if I don’t run with a zerg I don’t get anything done, because I usually get ganked by a group of 5+, and if I do run with a zerg, I can’t contribute anywhere because of all the AoE spam.

I can’t stand S/x because I like more bursty builds, hence why I still run D/P 25/30/0/0/15. However, I feel like I’m being judged if I don’t run S/D and as well as in WvW, I feel REAL useless.

So my question is: what are the roles of the different weaponsets in regards to WvW? Since I play on a Tier 2 server, I don’t get the small roaming group fights.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Traxal.2745:

Thanks for the replies. Sizer is good for sure, and could make sword/no OH look good. I’m trying to make sense of it for the common thief like me.

So if boon steal is that effective, does 3 skill get the most use? For the evade and boon steal?

No, you only need LS and Steal, but need to trait for Bountiful Theft.

Let’s say I saw a Guardian with 12 stacks of Might running with his Warrior buddy with also 12 stacks of Might. What I do is, use Flanking Strike out somewhere — no target is preferred.

Then I pre-cast Larcenous Strike -> Steal from the Guardian -> Switch target to Warrior -> Flanking Strike -> Larcenous Strike -> dodge roll = Easy 25 stacks of Might.

EDIT:
Minor clarification. Bountiful Theft will steal Aegis from the Guardian first, so that you can steal the Might stacks with Larcenous Strike.

I thought boon stealing only steals one stack of it? Please clarify this for me

I’ve started to use Wurm in sPvP and it’s working out pretty well. I still hit an average of 6-7k backstabs on medium armors, and that’s all I can really ask for at this point lol.

I’m wondering what if you ran P/P / P/D? You could have a hybrid condi / power spec, no? Or maybe even P/P / D/P. I tried something like that where I would lower their hp w/ P/P then steal in for some backstabs from D/P and it was working ok, but I’m not good at making builds.

Vanthian.9267:

It is not hard at all. Thieves just complain because they don’t’ want a nerf. it is not hard to go in stealth every 4 seconds then just wait around till target blows their cool downs then spam backstab or whatever you plan on spamming (because that is literally the only thing a Thief does).

The class as itself is a joke but with the broken stealth mechanic is just ridiculous. Not to mention all the PvE (aka WvW) Thieves thinking they are pro (such a joke).

Its skill floor for Thief is by far one of the lowest, only higher than Mesmer. If you are decent at playing PvP games you should not die on a Thief at all, in any situation. Just stealth and run. It doesn’t get any easier.

(Note all the pro players begged Anet to change the horrible stealth in this game before they all jumped ship which happened almost a year and half ago)

If you are stealthing and running, you are not capping points, or in general being helpful to your team at all. Think about that one. Thief cooldowns are pretty long, so if he’s using his stealth options to run away, chances are, your cooldowns will be ready to pop once he comes back around. And yes, for a fact, it does get easier. Get on a warrior, throw a bolo and faceroll until your target is downed. You don’t even have to heal because healsig will take care of that for you.

It seems like D/D is direct counter to mesmer phantasm builds. What if you’re using S/P or D/P?

Chicago Jack.5647:

Use shortbow. That’s all you need against a mesmer.

Clusterbomb them and their clones, and you have an easy access to an evasion for their phantasms. The auto attack is a natural mesmer killer too. Poison is very strong on mesmers, since they have poor condition removal. You also have an on-demand port if you get disabled via immobilize.

I’ve once fought against a mesmer with a shortbow: laid down poison, cluster bomb, trick shot, cluster bomb, more poison, more trick shotting. I must have killed about 10-15 clones and I STILL died, and he STILL was able to cast more. How many can he make?! I have my own Mesmer in PvE and I could never make that many. Ugh, they are so annoying to fight.

I feel that when I play D/D I’m so limited in the useful skills I can use. I use shadowshot too much and it burns my initiative And I agree. I suck at 1v1 but I’m extremely useful in 2vX settings. I hate running around by myself in pvp.

I’ve come across a time or two where I’ve headshotted a guy trying to stomp a teammate, and stole / interrupted another, letting my other teammate get the kill on a dude and rallying both guys. That was epic

Dahkeus.8243:

Yes, but D/P is also a lot more dynamic than builds like S/D since the way you use the weapon changes so much depending on circumstance. However, there’s still a lot of thieves out there that don’t use D/P beyond just dropping blind fields and leap/backstabbing (hence why you see people argue that it’s an “easy” weaponset).

Wait, there’s other things I can do on D/P other than 5, 2? I mean it in a sarcastic, but not really sarcastic way. Because there’s not really much you can do outside of a well timed headshot. Maybe 3 → 1 backstab. I find that when I 1v1 in sPvP thieves that play S/P do 2, 3, you stun break it, 2, 3 again. I only have so many breaks!

Every weaponset seems to be spammy if you wanna put it that way.

I feel like every time I get immob’ed, I’m dead. I also feel like every time I get feared, I’m dead. I have to use Roll for Initiative because I’m not quick enough to SS away, or I SS into some place not far enough, or I keep getting a “Out of Range”. :\

I don’t like doing 3k crits though. :\

Thanks everyone! I think the next logical step to this discussion is what builds synergize well with each other?

I run D/P Trickery mostly, because I don’t like Sword playstyle. It doesn’t seem to work too well with a bunker guard or a shatter mes. What do you guys run and what other build would you run it with? I know nothing about the other classes’ builds.

Thanks! Great list! This is exactly what I’m looking for! But I’m still looking for more opinions.

So far I’ve had fun running with a Guardian and a Ranger. Specifically, I’ve only run with a Shatter Mes, and it’s ok, it’s almost like running with another Thief.

Keep em coming!

I finally have a friend who’s interested in sPvP / WvW, but he’s a Guardian. Running around with him in PvP for a while made for some interesting battles. So what do you guys think is the best combination for roaming / pvp with a thief?

Please list your reasons as well.

LOL That guild name…. I want to join it just because for the LOLZ.

I think there already is one, I saw a video posted a while back.

A slew of AoE from a Hammer warrior that will down you faster than you can say Kitten is enough of a reason to get your butt out of there ASAP. I don’t know, I seem to have more problems as a Thief than everyone else complains about. Clearly it’s a L2P issue.

So in this vein, 4 HS thru BPS doesn’t work anymore? I never do it because I’m lazy to HS that many times.

Is there a way to gift a finisher in the game? You can buy anything else in the Black Lion Trading Co. and auto gifts it to someone. I want to give the Golem Finisher to my friend, but I don’t want to buy it first in fear that it will be account bound. Help? Thanks.

Thanks, that answers my question. I’m still not sure why they decided to make it this way, but it helps with understanding why I’ve gotten revealed “randomly”.

I’ve watched some thief videos where I could have sworn they just Refuge and then walk out of it like nothing’s happening even though the hut is still on, but I’ll take a closer look this time.

I know it pulses and each pulse gives you about 2s of stealth. If you leave early, you should just have a short stealth, what about that needs to be “countered”? Also, they could have made it if you took damage or was forcefully pulled out that would cause a reveal, but walking out of it yourself is the thing that boggles me.

Ok, so I’ve come across this madness and it’s made me really mad. Say I’m in combat, and I fall off a ledge. I SR myself for a couple seconds, and I step out of it. REVEALED. What? Why?

How does SR determine when I get knocked out and randomly reveal me? Sometimes I can hide in it for a second and still be stealthed when I walk out of it, but sometimes I wait and I have about 6s of stealth stacked up, walk out, still revealed. Is there a requirement / bug with it where I have to stay for the full duration or something?