Working much better for me.
Still had one weird issue where I couldn’t straight jump onto the flat platform of the colosseum. All the Kyhlo bugs I knew of are fixed though.
Ctrl + F + “Nerf”
One result and not the one I was looking for.
Expect major changes cough NERFS cough to daredevil whenever deadeye comes out. Expect meta shifts that don’t favor daredevil. Expect flat out nerfs and power shifts.
If deadeye isn’t meta for at least six months I will be very surprised. And not because I think current deadeye reveal is stronger than the current meta daredevil.
Maybe Valkyrie with crit in steath traited?
Can spam kneel to get stealth. Elite skill is a 5s cd that removes reveal and grants stealth. Also has 40s cd shadow gust for stealth.
Also how can we make sure d/p stays meta with the new xpac? If d/p isn’t meta I’m pretty sure this subform will die.
Many people say this. But it’s all based on feelings, not any hard evidence.
Hrm… I should have added that for me personally. I find the matchmaking fine in terms of balance. Can lose to where I’m better than most people I play with. Win to where I’m worse. However, that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be better for others and in aspects other than balance. Such as queue time.
You do realize that machine learning is still a highly experimental field? Developing a machine learning matchmaker would require both a research team and many years.
Yup and yup.
Also you should probably do some research of your own. Glicko is hardly new to the world of team games, and there has been much research done on the effectiveness of various matchmaker algos in team games. Honestly my own research tends to indicate that ArenaNet’s setup is sound, however it’s plausible that there could be bugs.
Hrm… I looked at the public Glicko algorithm for GW2. Like I said above, personally I find it matchmaking rather fine. However from looking at it’s input parameters it doesn’t consider some of the aspects mentioned above. Also both in League and GW2 I hear about how when you start to get to the top of the ladder things start to break down. Would be interested if there was a way to fix that.
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DISCLAIMER I know almost nothing about machine learning, and I am writing this right after I woke up (Gotta strike the iron while its hot!). I did study CS in school (But once I entered the workforce, I realized how little I knew!).
Inspired by every time I see a post on GW2 or League saying: “how is this matchmaking fair!” Are there times where matchmaking is clearly unfair that a human would be able to tell? If so can we use machine learning to be the human that prevents those matchups?
So I thought to myself. Glicko / MMR / Elo, are all systems that really are designed to pair 1 person to 1 other person. They work well in that instance. However, since all those systems are based on one or two metrics (“win-rate” and time), they aren’t really good for pairing teams vs teams. There are various aspects that are lost when you only pair on MMR. Game acquired metrics such as: how balanced a game is, how long a game is, how long it took to queue a game together, how many negative / positive words were said in the game (also consider how many shotcalling / team communication words were said) are lost. User-feedback acquired perspectives of how balanced the game was, how fun the game was, how toxic / friendly their teammates were are lost. Per-user acquired metrics of afk rate, and word-usage are also lost. Would it be possible to improve matchmaking, while still keeping matchmaking inherently fair, by including some or all of the above metrics?
I believe that machine learning might be able to capture some or all of the above metrics, perhaps by including them as individual weights for each player. Each team v. team paring can be judged after the fact based on randomly selected user feedback and by analyzing the game. I think this could lead to games that are funner and more balanced.
However there are some concerns. Primarily, if such a system could really be fair. Clearly, MMR could be used to create a pool of players that machine learning is then used to select from. But weather or not this is as fair as the (I assume) random selection before is hard to say. Players may not like being paired in a manner that they cannot clearly tell is fair.
Other applications
General automated team creation. Imagine creating a development team from a pool of crowdsourced / freelance developers (Hate contest-based crowdsourcing. But that’s another topic). Could create an HR world where you hire based on attempting to achieve a “team” that based on machine learning should be optimal. Rather than hiring random individuals. Or, given a set of individuals, could try and find the remaining team that would work the best with those individuals. Of course initially such a system might only be used only as a suggestion on top of analyzing all possible candidates. But, if it proves to be effective, later on it could be phased in as a primary method of acquisition.
*Side thought: everywhere I say machine learning. Might be appropriate to replace with neural networks.
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If you jump it would work, just saying
There a lot of ones where jumping doesn’t fix it though. Some where it only breaks if you jump too.
Having to jump to get a skill to work normally is a bit much anyway…
Pretty sure those pathing “errors” are intended.
Both Coliseum and Capricorn have conveniently placed boxes, that happen to be stacked in such a way that you can jump up them, and happen to break teleports. If that’s not intentional design I don’t know what is.
That much is obvious. But are you telling me the east / blue side of the platforms at Kyhlo’s clocktower is strategically designed almost never allow shadowsteps while the rest of the 3/4 do? Even when the mirror west / red side can always make these jumps? (There are some exact angles that work on blue side, I’ll give you that. But it’s still nothing compared to almost always working on red side)
Also on Kyhlo, you can almost always shortbow from area at the bottom of the stairs on the right leading to blue side home. But only about half the time can you shortbow from the area at the bottom of the stairs on the right leading the ride side home. Takes me 5-10s of moving left and right while continuously spamming sb to make the jump to red side home. While on blue side home I get it almost 100% of the time on the first time.
There’s also various completely walkable paths from point B to A / C, and vice-versa, on skyhammer that don’t work and bug me.
Depends what kind of scenario you’re thinking of. Do you want to kill the enemy quickly in a duel? Or do you want to be able to sustain on a point for a long time in a “duel” without getting killed, but at the same time not giving up a cap?
The first doesn’t really happen with how many invulns there are in this game. For the latter I’d say either a bunker druid or hammer engi are the best. Chrono condi is up there too.
It is nothing new and has been happening since launch. Fun part, if say DHs would be struggling with some nasty bugs that get them killed, Anet would instantly fix it.
It is definitely new since the shadowstep rework. Before, having a green target marker meant you could shadowstep there 100%. Now it’s inconsistent as hell in PvP.
Which is a same because you think they’d test on the six or so pvp maps before making such a change.
Anyone else been getting the above two a lot? It’s been bugging me in PvP.
Aim for an area, see the green “go” marker, then bam, suddenly down 6 init without moving an inch.
The interaction at Battle of Kyhlo going from the ground up to the platforms on the clocktower are particularly bad. Also had a few where I get no valid path on flat terrain on Skyhammer.
Recently had a downstate moment where I got stomped early because I tried to shadowstep from the bottom of the slope at Kyhlo clocktower to the point, only to get a “No valid path” error (Caused a enemy rally on someone just about to get stomped which would have rallied me, so a bit salty about that one). Cursor was green for the shadowstep too.
^
BUT, there is a massive dance party at Market Waypoint that you can and should join.
Build Constructor: [Link].
Tried various variations. This is the one I found to be the best.
Notable variations and reasoning:
Skills
- Devourer Venom – Panic Strike causes devourer venom to apply poison. Keeping people in your poison fields is a bigger problem than getting 5+ poison stacks. Devourer helps with both. Also it provides more utility in a teamfight.
- Basilisk Venom – Same drill here. We want to isolate people to get pulmonary and torment stacks. Sadly the whole point of this build is to make it to where your opponent doesn’t get to play.
Traits
- Mug – Burst / sustain.
- Sleight of Hand – Honestly I don’t think you can have a real thief build without this. Steal cooldown is important for mug / endurance gain / 3x poison stacks with the new Potent Poison. Super important for gapclosing. And if you get the interrupt you’ll apply both pulmonary and torment.
- Impacting Disruption – For pulmonary.
Runes / Sigils / Amulet
- Sigil of Energy x2 – Playstyle involves swapping weapons on cooldown for endurance gain. I don’t find the “steal a boon on interrupt” sigil worth it since it can’t steal stability.
- Sigil of Venom x2 – Duration to help get 5+ stacks. Found I didn’t need more poison duration than this.
- Rune of the Warrior – Playstyle involves swapping weapons on cooldown for endurance gain. Vitality makes you tanky. Power helps pulmonary burst.
- Carrion Amulet – Also makes you tanky, especially with all the dodge spamming. Gives right amount of Power / Condi for damage.
Playstyle
Spam all your skills, except shadowstep, on cooldown to maximize endurance and dodges. That includes heal, signet of agility, and weapon swap. Save signet and shadow return for condi clear as needed. Dodge in choking gas for the whirl finisher. Also keep in mind you have 3 aoe team utility spells.
Thoughts? I know there are other variations that give better results in certain situations. Particularly with the ebb and flow of cooldowns. This one though I found to be very reliable consistently, with a good mix of sustain, utility, and both condi and physical damage.
If you go onto GW2 reddit you can find them. Check the comments. Not gonna post directly.
Last I recall your proposal was a bit lengthy. As a real proposal should be I suppose. Care to elaborate on some of the more interesting mechanics of your concept for the sniper / deadeye?
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Plasma
There have been studies indicating, that plasma could truly be a vitamin bomb. Thanks to the MMA (Mesmer Medical Association), who are known to have the monopoly on Plasma, the cost of this treatment unfortunately is unaffordable for the most of us.
Dang. If only we had standardized healthcare in GW2. Then mesmers wouldn’t be able to monopolize plasma and charge outrageous prices to us thieves.
What we need is a leader. Someone who’s willing to make Tyria great again.
Hi!
I just wanted to address the fact that milk or cheese aren’t really a proper source of vitamin d. Some milk products might have vitamins added, but the vitamins don’t occur naturally in dairy.
Please see your pharmasist or a doctor if you suffer from chronic vitamin deficiency!
This is important information. While we are lucky enough to have vitamins in our modern world. What will thieves do to solve their Vitamin D Deficiency in the archaic world of GW2?
Also I should probably see how bad my doctor thinks my deficiency IRL is…
Edit: A thought, have there been any studies on the medical effects of consuming ectoplasm?
(edited by Midi.8359)
I just don’t understand why they can’t just remove stealth stacking entirely on all professions. First application maintains its duration and doesn’t get overwritten by others. This solves many problems for many builds.
Yes, it is a substantial hit to D/P thief in sPvP for map traversal for surprises for +1’s, but initiative costs could be managed and the innate capabilities of the thief (or traits) also buffed as a means of compensation.
That’s because that change is so small and insignificant that it’d only affect like, 1% of all thief builds and playstyles. This change on the other hand is easy to implement because it affects 100% of all thief build and playstyles. We would have to add a F3 cheese slot that every thief would have to adapt too.
Wait, people lose to ghost thieves?
Well no, but they usually interrupt my bi-weekly sun-tanning sessions in WvW and that’s annoying.
@OpLickEm, Yes.
If and when other classes can get a two minute consecutive invuln, then yea sure I think there should be systems in place to stop that.
I too feel like every class should have a penalty for using one of it’s core mechanics!
/End Sarcasm
In no reasonable thief build will you stealth for more than a minute consecutively. This affects nothing except the problem of ghost thief. Call me wrong and I can push it to a minute thirty or two minutes at max. Nothing stealths that long as part of its core playstyle except ghost thief.
@Kumouta, good idea. Adding cheese to the F3 slot would add a new dynamic to thief gameplay that would really bring some needed complexity to the class. Good thieves will be separated from bad based on when/how they choose to use their cheese. We could also make the type of cheese change via traits. But we need to be careful in balancing that. I don’t want D/P/Provolone to become the only way thieves can play. Some thieves will want to spec D/D/Parmesan for its rich & sharp flavor and we should make sure to support those thieves.
(edited by Midi.8359)
I know what you’re thinking. GW2 doesn’t have milk as a consumable since the Asura have yet to invent refrigerators. How will us thieves cleanse our Vitamin D Deficiency?
Worry not. We will do what our great-grandfathers did when they had no refrigerators.
We will turn our milk into Cheese: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cheese_Triangle
Ghost thief is a problem.
Midi has a solution.
New self inflicted debuff: Vitamin D Deficiency
Description: You’ve been hiding in the shadows for too long and need some sun.
Effect: Cannot stealth for 1 minute.
Trigger: Stealthed for 1 minute.
Disabled in PvP?: Idk.
Do I have a Vitamin D Deficiency IRL?: Yes.
Eh, it’s no big deal. I guess now you may have to pay attention when stealthing instead of just spamming backstab.
Gonna take your words for face value. Why “guess” when you can just play the class and realize it’s not that simple. I’m guessing that you haven’t yet, or that you at least didn’t when you made this post. Since you’re still “guessing” about what this nerf implies.
This change doesn’t just force you to be more careful when landing backstabs. It cuts out shadow shot -> backstab chains/attempts that can easily occur more than once per stealth. This isn’t a matter of adding more complexity to the game. You could always dodge/blink/invuln/what have you in reaction to the blind of a shadow shot before the backstab or default dagger strike. Now however, you no longer have the option to follow up with another shadow shot -> backstab, or just plain walk-up backstab after the first one misses. So this combo is pretty much useless as all it does is let your opponent know when to dodge your backstab.
Same thing goes for BP -> HS -> Steal backstab setups. The BP & HS tell means that the first backstab will more times than not miss against a competent player – as it always had before. You can pay all the attention you want, but you’re only gonna get one backstab in with the amount of stealth that combo gives you. And it’s only gonna take one aegis/dodge that SHOULD happen because of the tell to dodge that backstab.
Put another way, in the land of invulns, blinks, and dodges you can pay all the attention you want to your opponent. If you only have one backstab opportunity per stealth, any backstab combo that has a tell you won’t/shouldn’t land a backstab from. It’s not: “Oh I can outplay my opponent by waiting.” It’s a 3/4 second window where you have one shot that you’re gonna miss if your opponent wants you to miss it. I’m exaggerating a bit here. But no so much, and the feeling of control being out of your hands is definitely real. Also not a D/D player, but considering how C&D is pretty much a tell I can see where they’re coming from.
Also, side note is that this makes it to where you can no longer spam shots with the SB in stealth. So if you happen to misjudge a hitbox and accidentally hit the invisible ledge of a wall or fire out of range then you’re SOL. Not to mention that firing your bow once every second feels super clunky.
But yea, again took your words at face value. I thought the same thing when I first read the patch notes: “Oh just gotta be a bit more careful – no big deal. Counterplay – I like that.” Then I actually played a few rounds and realized that this nerf pretty much made it so that any backstab combo other than BP -> HS/Boundx3 didn’t/shouldn’t net me a backstab.
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Ah. As much as I like the free venomshare this really sucks. You backstab/etc way more than you cast basilisk or other venoms. As fun as it is to try and get off a useful venom the clunkyness of the backstab/etc isn’t worth it.
Although, considering how long it took to get 10% on withdraw I think it’s something we’ll have to get used to. >_>
In the current meta is there even a class that doesn’t have at least three boons on 24/7? Even with the boon stripping. Really don’t get the point of the second point of the passive. Seems like whoever is balancing the thief has never played or watched a single game of PvP (Assuming this isn’t a trait for PvE as boonstripping + damage reduction doesn’t really spell PvE to me).
Where did this idea even come from anyway. Seems like a nerf out of nowhere. Don’t recall anyone complaining in the first place about thieves being able to backstab/etc multiple times.
Having a cd on the stealth attack is so awkward as every other skill in the thief’s kit doesn’t have a cd.
I actually did not forget about endless stamina. I used a rate of 5%(0.5) + 5%(0.5^2).
Which is 3.75% per second and consistent with the blurb on wiki/Endless_Stamina.
I also ran tests in game and got results consistent with my approximations above.
Anywho as the OP has stopped responding I don’t this thread is worth continuing on.
However: you run dont stop and unhindered combatant in the same build. Why? You also use mesmer runes and only have a single daze. Change your runes. I personally like vampire, simple thief rune could also be a good idea if you really just want the damage.
Quoting this for emphasis. The runes I could see maybe, but don’t stop and dash are really redundant.
Also Vigorous Recovery gives 26.25 endurance over the span of 7s when you use a heal skill. Considering that you use Dash. I would say that half of the endurance needed for dash on a 7s delay isn’t worth it. Possibly similar reasoning going to Feline Grace and Sigil of Energy, which both offer 18.75 endurance over the span of 5s.
Edit: Also note that those gains don’t stack in parallel. Meaning that if you proc Vigorous Recovery and Feline Grace/Sigil of Energy at the same time then you get 45 endurance over 12s. 12s is quite a long time for less than one dodge. Tells you something about how much Sigil of Energy got nerfed when it used to give one dodge instantly. Where now even a Sigil of Energy proc + a skill tied to the CD of your heal + Vigor buffs from Acro don’t offer one dodge over the span of 12s.
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Can you share a build constructor of the two you use the most?
Posting your build is probably a good way to start when trying to get people to help you.
Also going more into how you play would be nice.
It is a part of evolution.
In the days of old. Ragers and tryhards could only count to two. So it is that to express their rage at being bodied by a thief they would say: “2222222.”
Now they have grown past two. Indeed, with the gift of HoT Anet has taught these young saplings how to count to five. So it is that they now say: “5555555.”
In all seriousness though. If you want to learn how to do stuff beyond vault spamming try dueling a staff thief in one of the 1v1 rooms. Vault spamming can be quite effective, but staff has things beyond it. Such as using Weakening Charge + Steal to get off all three hits of Weakening Charge. Also there’s using Dust Strike for blind, and setting up for Hook Strike.
The audio desyncing was a total killer. Stopped watching the stream several times because of that.
Also yeah, camera options in game definitely aren’t that nice. You get weird viewing angles where you’d like to move closer to see more but can’t so you just keep moving the camera in the direction of the player as he/she walks further from the camera. Eventually giving up and clicking on the player to follow.
It’d be nice if there was some smart algorithm that averaged player distances to give a view.
Hrm well if you want setups for Fist Flurry maybe consider dropping Signet of Agility. Keep bandit’s defense. Then use it to set up for Fist Flurry. Also it’s risky but you can cancel the last hit of Impact Strike by stowing your weapons. During Impact Strike’s 2s knockup from Uppercut you can try to go for Fist Flurry.
Many folks run flanking strikes to get quickness at for First flurry during burst attempts. I don’t but it certainly makes it easier to land. Almost impossible to miss if you get the proc with Basilisk Venom.
Beyond that just gotta rely on team CC’s to set you up. Fist Flurry is terrible for 1v1’s, and if you want to run it that’s a cost you’ll have to deal with. But in teamfight scenarios however you’re much more likely to get it off.
Personally I run D/P which is better at sticking to opponents than staff. That helps with Fist Flurry imo. Since you run staff you might consider switching out Signet of Agility and Bandit’s defense for Blinding Powder so you can use the staff trip to set up for Fist Flurry.
Also just fyi you’re running trickster without any tricks. Not even the flanking strikes trait which counts as a trick.
Er I want to make a suggestion that makes D/D more viable. I guess, in particular a suggestion we (and possibly others) can both agree with.
“A buff to D/D via SA would be a nerf to D/P if the merged trait system stays the same.”
This I don’t understand. Not that I disagree with it but I don’t understand. Again from my perspective as long as DA/Trick/Dare D/P > SA/Trick/Dare D/P, you can do anything you want to with SA and it won’t nerf D/P. I guess the SA changes you want for D/D would make SA worse for D/P? If that is the case (and not saying it is), that’d be fine with me as D/P doesn’t really use the traitline. Nvm you edited your post. Still if those SA buffs for D/D made SA worser for D/P I don’t think anyone would mind (and as I said in the marked out part above, if that is the case with those buffs. Not saying it is).
Yea D/P might still be the most dominant set, but I wouldn’t mind seeing D/D thieves be more viable. Heck if SA buffs lead to D/D thieves being top dog I don’t really care either.
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So buff SA to buff D/D without buffing D/P.
Also not mad. Just said that to save myself some headaches (Since very similar quoting out of context happened in the other thread).
First Flurry is always going to be kinda hard to land since you get a lot of reward for landing it. What sort of build are you running? Helps to decide what sort of suggestions to give.
Pulmonary Impact is a status effect. In two seconds after it is applied your opponent takes a heavy, unblockable, and non-crit burst of damage.
@cynz: To make it simple: D/P is stronger than every other thief set – part of it because the skills synergize so well – the other reason: all traits in SA are now suited D/P best.
And it does more damage than at least D/D which is silly and shouldn’t be.
As long as thief is balanced around D/P no other weaponset will have a chance. As long as D/P isn’t nerfed (traits being unraveled so other builds can take them again counting as nerfs) no other set will have a chance.
I hope you get it now – and I’m seriously tired of this discussion – I’m not that stupid that I couldn’t have brought my point across in now 100 posts – so please try to either get or just leave me alone with your hostility – thank you.
Honestly I dropped out of that thread due to the massive amount of quoting out of context. It doesn’t take 100 posts to get your point across. But just because you communicated your idea doesn’t mean others agree with it.
Like said this in the other thread but it got ignored just so you or some other folk could take a jab at me. Buff SA all you want. It doesn’t matter if SA + D/P is 200x better than SA + D/D or SA + whatever. As long as DA/Trick/Dare D/P is still better than SA/Trick/Dare D/P. Then D/P won’t run SA. So it doesn’t matter if SA gets buffed.
If this was the other thread I’d get quoted for saying: “It doesn’t matter if SA + D/P is 200x better than SA + D/D or SA + whatever.” And that I’m a dirty D/P thief for feeling that way. Even though that sentence has a totally different meaning when used without the ones following it.
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Its true though. Thats what we have bandits defense for. there are a lot of thieves trying to decide a fight with the first backstab and its easy to turn the tide on them.
Well if you think that 1 block that lasts for 1,5 sec will be a gamechanger for thieves, then you are wrong
I was not referring to the block. I was referring to the 12 sec cd stunbreak. It really makes for a huge difference in thief v thief fights.
the stunbreak doesn’t make a huge difference in thief v thief, since we don’t have that meany stuns anyhow, the only one is basi venom, then yes sword 2 has an immob and a trait does as well, playing DrD makes them useless, and bandits defense doesn’t clear immob so kitten? ^^
Stunbreak makes for a huge difference in thief 1v1s. It always has unless you have the reaction time of a sloth. The difference between a backstab + auto chain and a half due to basilisk vs a backstab + instant stun break is huge. The latter is recoverable from, but the former gives your opponent enough momentum to pretty much decide the fight.
Bandit’s defense is also a gamechanger in thief 1v1’s. If you don’t think it is then you haven’t tried running it to improve your 1v1 game. The kick can be used to cancel the block and results in a 2s knockdown. Which if it connects when you don’t have a stunbreak will easily decide the 1v1 match. Not to mention the block is a godsend for stealth situations.
Adding a 4-5k+ game count restriction isn’t a magic filter that leaves you with players that only have “valid” opinions. You can play a huge number of games without trying to improve. See these people. Out of the 100 players that have spent the most time on league, 49 of them are Silver or lower (including Unranked).
It’d make more sense to have some sort of legendary player’s forum since that’s at least slightly based on skill. But even then many legendary players don’t know what they’re doing. And definitely can’t be said to only have “valid” opinions.
But seriously hours played is such a terrible metric to go by. Honestly thinking about the game’s health as a whole, skill is a pretty terrible metric to go by as well. Since balancing for those at the top of the ladder only will not magically balance the game at lower skill levels. And if the game’s not fun to play at lower skill levels then you’re left with no new blood and eventually a ghost-town.
I agree with the first paragraph, but can’t really comment of the rest of your thoughts.
I mean the first post is structured like this: “Unranked is a Poor Laboratory.” Then: “hey guys here’s what I’ve discovered in my super-poor laboratory.”
Too many people aren’t playing to win, to justify drawing conclusions. I normally play 100% for the win, but on unranked I often go for super-risky plays just to see if I can outplay my opponents. I’m certain I’m not the only one who does this because of unranked.
My build: [Link]
Actually kinda surprised. Wasn’t expecting to see another Fist Flurry thief. My build is pretty much the same as Dirtyrascal’s build. If you count the differences there’s only seven with three being in sigils/runes, and four in traits/utility skills.
I play a heavy +1/rotation/team-oriented way. Might seem obvious as that’s how most thieves play. But I think I differ in that I don’t even take things like Blinding Powder, Bandit’s defense, Widthdraw, or even Basilisk Venom which are hugely beneficial in 1v1 matchups (Some of these are definitely useful from a non 1v1 perspective, but I digress). This doesn’t mean I run away from every 1v1 scenario. Just that if I do go into them it’s with the realization that I’m definitely not optimized for the scenario.
I like to aggressively go for decaps. For instance on Foefire if someone’s standing on a ledge and providing ranged support on a cliff to mid. Then I’ll keep tabs on them and the second they choose to walk off the ledge I’ll rotate for the decap. Sometimes I’ll go for the decap even if they’re still on the ledge. Knowing that I can make it to the point and decap it before they can get there. Same for Nifhel. I keep track on the number of enemies known on the map and if I know there’s someone who left or I see leaving their bunker position I’ll go for a decap. I run Agility + Channeled Vigor to support frequent decapping though. The latter giving 85 endurance on a 16s cd.
With Impact Strike and Fist Flurry I actually don’t mind having to go into teamfights. Fist Flurry excels in non 1v1 scenarios since defenses get blown more often and you can use it as a follow up to your allies hard CC. I don’t think it’s worth traiting Baslisk Venom or Quickness to get the combo off. I prefer Impact Strike’s added DPS/stomping potential. Plus you can cancel the last hit to try and go for Fist Flurry during the 2s of knockup from Uppercut.
In teamfighting I focus targets whenever possible. But also tend to just fight on the edge of the teamfight to avoid damage. Sometimes instead of going for the team target I’ll go after squishies, who I recognize as they’re likely also fighting on the edge of the fight, to pressure them off the battle. I go for Fist Flurry and weave in/out whenever the situation calls for it. In +1’ing Fist Flurry is also good as Dirtyrascal has said.
Also just an aside as this thing isn’t really thief specific. But I pay a lot of attention to class invulns and more or less just stop everything whenever I see one. Normally wouldn’t mention this. But recently just saw a commentated vid of a thief where the player spammed three headshots into a ranger who had Signet of Stone active. Throwing a “Yeah! Got the interrupt!” shortly after their Pulmonry Impact did zero damage o_o.
Another aside, but BP -> Headshot is an alright combo if you want to mix up your playstyle. Headshot blinding due to the combo finisher.
Edit: Also wanted to say that another thing I do is keep track of respawn timers. If I know someone just got stomped I’ll factor in the respawn into where I do/don’t rotate. Also if I just downed someone 1v1 or whatnot then I’ll manually countdown to 15 to get them on spawn again. Usually faking a different direction while their stomped body is still there in order to go to spawn as soon as it disappears. I think a sudden, unexpected, stealth-burst from spawn right after you’ve killed someone is a great way to kill their morale. Which usually means you can expect them to misplay or just play worser in the ensuing spawn-fight.
(edited by Midi.8359)
Ah that explains things. Good to know.
Also just a diamond thief. Started halfway into the season and only did solo queue/conquest.
Not really that off-meta of a build you have. Except for the Acro over DA, daggers, and possibly some sigil choices. Also could say Bound is slightly worser than Dash.
First things first though, I don’t know if it’s just me but I think sigil of blood is actually bugged right now. Went ingame and tested it on golems/duelers in 1v1 rooms and could never get it to proc. Only tested it a few times though, dunno possible I missed the combat log every time. If you want to use it I’d make sure it’s not bugged though.
I wrote some stuff about taking Dash over Bound and vice versa on the forums here: [Link]. Not saying my thoughts here are right. But those are my thoughts on the matter and I don’t want to write it again. Although, the way you have it set up you have to run Bound to justify Acro.
There’s more to DA than the Grandmaster trait. You listed every traitline when justifying Acro. Should do the same when considering DA. Particularly notable is the virtually flat +10% dps increase DA offers and damage/healing from mug.
Also personally I don’t pay much attention to the thief vs. thief matchup in weighing builds. It’s not often that you’re stuck 1v1’ing a thief (In terms of the entire game). Even less often that you’re stuck 1v1’ing in a fair scenario. In my opinion that slight unfairness is what decides who will “win” the 1v1 often enough to make the mirror matchup not worth obsessing over.
Ascended weapons also flat out deal more damage. Like as in damage modifiers, you know the damage range you get when you hover over the weapon.
Exotic SB does 905-1000, Ascended does 950-1050.
or make it so that face dmg is the same as back dmg.
The fact that this was even suggested goes so far against the identity of the thief.
I agree that backstabs are pretty lacking atm. The risk vs reward is pretty low on backstabs. C&D into steal, if it misses makes you down a 20/30s cd steal and 6/8 initiative depending on if you traited to gain initiative on steal. And BP -> HS costs 9 initiative. Blinding power has a 40s cd if you actually decide to use that for a backstab. And with all the invulns, dodges, blocks, stealth, and mobility skills right now it’s definitely possible to either stall out a backstab or the extra dps following one required for a down. Particularly considering that getting someone low nowadays means triggering their automatic defenses.
Edit: Also yeah, think they’re weak. But like Deceiver says that might mean too much powercreep rather than a need for a buff.
(edited by Midi.8359)
BP→HS no steal to bait out the dodge.
Standing HS to bait out the dodge.
BP standing auto to bait out the dodge.
Usually I find people who react to BP→HS→Steal react to one of the above as well. Or that one of the above can be used for mindgames.
And of course just waiting in stealth as others have mentioned.
Should be two condi bursts as shadowstep/signet of agility are pretty good at clearing at least one condi burst.
I don’t think that hotjoins are the best place to draw conclusions from about PvP thieves in general. Don’t think unranked is a good place to draw conclusions from either but that’s a different story.
Generally speaking though spec’ing for the thief 1v1 condi matchup is a bad idea for how rarely it occurs. Most builds already provide enough condi clear to fight against condi rev’s, which are more prevalent than condi thieves. Heck condi thieves are definitely possible to deal with too, given a good initial burst.
Most D/P thieves I see run dash. With the exception being in dueling rooms where I see an even mix of bound and dash (Assuming they are running one or the other). Actually, at the last AG tournament I was watching not a single thief chose to run Bound over Dash.
D/P does have good synergy with bound. But that’s mostly from a 1v1 scenario. Dash is better for disengaging and rotations.
Honestly I think permastealth is kinda overrated. Outside of EoTM/WvW scouting, say do you do go permastealth. Then what? You can’t decap or hold a node while in stealth. Also if you’re stealthing to go disengage or rotate then having Dash would be better than having the extra one or two stacks of stealth Bound can offer.
Only reason to run Bound is for the extra damage and ability to re-stealth. But those things in themselves are different from permastealth, and like I mentioned earlier more suited for 1v1’s. On the topic of choosing Bound for 1v1’s though you have to think. What classes/builds does Bound let me 1v1 that I couldn’t before? Bound isn’t going to magically win you the Scrapper or DH matchup. It certainly makes the thief mirror matchup easier, but you still definitely can lose to a thief running Dash if he/she gets the first burst off (Or just plain outplays you).
Of course you could argue that the extra damage is better in +1’s/teamfights. But then you have a similar situation as above where running bound is only helpful if you actually need the extra damage in order to make your +1/teamfight successful. Personally I think there aren’t enough scenarios where a Dash thief will lose but a Bound thief will win to justify taking Bound over Dash. Especially considering that, in terms of +1’s at least, Dash lets you get to those scenario’s faster which usually means more opportunities for success.
Anywho, Dash vs Bound for D/P aside. Despite the wall of text I think if they removed leap on Bound and replaced it with an AoE blind as you suggested, then we might actually see more diversity as far as Bounding Staff thieves go. I’d definitely expect to see less Bounding D/P thieves (Which imo aren’t the majoriity in the first place). But Bounding Staff thieves never used the leap finisher anyway so a blind would be a straight up buff to them. I dunno if more Bounding Staff thieves for fewer Bounding X/P thieves is really what you want though.
(edited by Midi.8359)
Ehm, the thing you’re quoting never mentions Lettuce using D/P and Jana using D/D. They’d likely use the same weaponset if they were going to duel to show mechanics. Probably some duels with both on D/D, then some with both on D/P. Then some on P/P to see who’s better at pressing 3. Of course could throw in some D/P vs. D/D duels just for the heck of it.
Not that duels ever proved anything. But not that seems to be a theme of this thread anywho so I suppose a duel would be fitting.
Look, you can say I don’t know D/D. It hasn’t been in the meta for ages and I haven’t bothered with it beyond playing it enough to learn that it’s immobile. As far as D/P goes however. I made my statement about the buffs with some facts or at least opinions to back them up. If mainhand dagger gets a buff, and three traitlines that D/P doesn’t use get a buff. Then at the very least both D/D and D/P got buffed equally.
It’s not that hard of a result to reach. For D/P you need Trick/Daredevil for reasons I shouldn’t have to explain. Then for the third one if you chose anything other than DA you loose out on a lot of damage since you don’t get Mug, Panic Strike/Revealed training, Improvisation/Executioner, and the +10% damage when opponent has a condi.
Anyway with that being said I’m stepping out of this conversation. Don’t know if I’m top dog or not. But definitely don’t care to stay long enough to find out.