Guild Wars 2

All 100% behind the change, obvious fix for obvious broken mechanic. Will be much less whining about mesmers in other threads of other classes now

Just read the patch logs and quickly ran here to read some whine threads which i expected. I see absolutly nothing wrong with fixing obvious exploits/broken mechanics.
I haven’t used them thus i am not affected and still i am king in WvW. All i can say, stop whining, adapt and move along or do not let the doors hit ya on your way out to shelve your mesmer…

Azure.8670:

Mjk.7562:

That was very embarrassing video. 3 botton mashing, not even preloading cnd before steal, shows how glasscannon thief is still easygoing on nowbies and low leweled underequiped stuff. This is exactly why i dropped my exotic thief and made bunker d/d elementalist, love to stomp thieves:D

I did the same exact thing. Funny thing is, now I feel even more overpowered than I did as thief. Weird, not sure which class I prefer at this point. I still think Guardian is the best class though, just not enough people use him with berserker to realize how OP he can be

Yes, thief was fun the first week i dressed her into zerker exotic, then it started to get dull and boring not to talk about swearing from others when i one shoted with backstab. D/D elementalist is like different world, incredible complex and difficult to play but so nicely rewarding. The amouth of buttons pressed per second is astonishing:D Love the complex combos.

I would actualy be more curious about that other thief from the video. Thief videos are, hands down, the most boring videos atm Roll some zerker guardian here plsDD

I think it is not much about speed signets but swiftness buff and skills with fast movement(charges, rushes, tele. arrows).

That was very embarrassing video. 3 botton mashing, not even preloading cnd before steal, shows how glasscannon thief is still easygoing on nowbies and low leweled underequiped stuff. This is exactly why i dropped my exotic thief and made bunker d/d elementalist, love to stomp thieves:D

ZLE.8293:

@Mjk,thank you at least for clarifying,that you speak from a WvW point of view.
For me it is NO proper PvP,just a lame competition of who has more gold for gear and better video card and more RAM (but hey it’s my opinion,what do i know). Thankfully in SPvP/TPvP where as you know armors are normalized things are quite balanced ….

Yup, that’s what i hate on spvp and tpvp that everyone has everything and is skill based only, i prefer compromise of equipment/skill based enviroment which WvW is close. But i agree it as to do alot about HW also:D

Oh i hate spvp or tpvp so i have no idea about those, sorries For me it is all about wvw and this d/d build would be too slow to kill i guess:D

I facepalmed the first time i met bunker d/d elementalist and i thought it is easy kill like everything else:P Well, oviously i was mistaken. Bunker guardian hurted alot also, i learned it the “hard” way.

evilapprentice.6379:

Deathspike.1870:

Arsenic.8259:

This is so true, it’s not even funny. And so many warrs complain about thieves.

Playing both a warrior and thief, I must say, the thief is a lot more powerful. A warrior, when fully geared towards bursting damage, has one trick up their sleeves every minute or so. That trick is easy to dodge, or when caught, you just need a single stun breaker (remember to keep one against a warrior). The thief, on the other hand, can just recover using stealth and try his one-shot-kill move again.. and again.. and again. Until you succeed, or give up and walk away (in case of bunker Guardians and Elementalists).

Please explain how the thief is using steal (part of the “1 shot kill move”) again and again and again and again. Steal does a good amount of damage, and applies poison (another 10% for your typical 30/30/0/0/10 build). Yes, they can keep using backstab, but you can counter that (generally) by moving away from the direction the thief was going when he stealthed. Warrior can use bola every 20s (i believe), and HB every 8(6 traited) seconds.

Not that I’m claiming warrior is OP, or thief UP – just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

His argument is 100% valid, but it is not something ppl want to hear in thief forum. I have full zerker thief 0/30/30/10/0 and i can easily take down ppl in wvw in 3 hits, longer if more skilled and geared. Only thing which i fear is D/D well played elementalist or well layed shatter mesmer. Very good healing comming from stealth, removal condition comming from stealth, repeated backstab combo every 5 sec? As i also own warrior i can tell you that warrior is rubbish in wvw vs decent thief.

On the other hand thief is very boring class to play and is severely lacing in PvE world mainly in dungeons where warror can shine with proper build. Also leveling warrior was like 3 x faster and easier than my thief. All this crying about nerfed thiefs makes me giggle somewhat, there wasn’t anything what i would called nerf for WvW thiefs. Who the hell use dancing dagger for damage anyway?

I switched to D/D ele now and is my primary toon, not exotic yes but hopefuly soon. That class takes enormous skill level to play correctly but compared to thieves it is fun and i woun’t “hopefuly” be called cheap-kitten or noob after i slaughter ppl in WvW as with my thief :/

I personaly thing thiefs deserve the true WvW nerf, and not just this tickling to finaly separate good thieves from bad ones.

Yes, it is, check youtube for videos by JetStormTV: one example i quickly found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxB6ungELXs&list=UUx93rwoTp7k4ZKrW_FKYjYQ&index=17
hope that helps, he also has duel videos vs nearly any class but obviously he is really skilled.

D/D elementalist is the most complicated class to play so expect to die alot before mastering it after few hours on lvl 80

D/D is also supposed to be played as bunker or balanced, not glass cannon in full berserker, mainly in pve when mobs are autoaiming.

I recently switched to bunker power/toughtness/healing with some vitality on dagers on lvl 80 and i can take up to 5 mobs in orr, it is slow killing, but very rewarding But the amouth of pressed buttons, switched attunments, created combos… you can achieve more with 3 buttons on warrior:P → if you want easy going class

Actualy i am zerker/orb thief full dps but speced for stealth length, crit, regen which makes me quite durable when played right. And yes, why to play something else than thief when i still reach 10k backstabs, i can escape whenever i want, i can reach anybody except d/d lightning elementalist. In PvE i two shot Orr creatures for farming, in Wvw with sanctuary i am helpful and deadly. All you wish for in one class.. still i rolled other classes, now on D/D ele. Why? Simple, after few weaks of killing in WvW the thief is boring, no challenge, rolling same 3-4 skills :/. On the other hand, mesmer and elementalist are uber tought, hard to play correctly and really fun so far

most fractal runs are random ppl, if you take full zerk thief with them, you gonna die:D
Random groups are more about heavy defence first. Tho my mesmer is full zerk and has no troubles, but one mistake and insta gib.

Now i feel pity for rangers.. always free kills

RawkFist.1935:

Jon,

Thank you for restoring my faith in your team. It’s not necessarily quick fixes that I desire as much as it is acknowledgement.

+ on this

definitly very HEAVY bug. I wonder why they break 10 things and barely fix one…

All i saw was simple hated poral bombing, showing the mesmer is in group in wvw only for feedback, portal and haste. Portal bombing was adressed many times and is expected to get nerfed anyway. Small organized groups will always be >>> some random zerk. Nothing really interesting :/ Personaly, i would take only one mesmer into limited group or none. For example same group size of thieves only would do far better just cluster bomb-spamming. After recent heavy nerfs to mesmer i see this class only as support only and even in that role it is very lacking.

ThiBash.5634:

To be honest, this is mostly an academic endeavour and not an actual practical build. My main goal is to see if single attunement builds can be done in such a way that the contribute something meaningful to the fight.

On a side note, I should probably mention that through the use of just the Frozen Ground and Arcane Power, it could probably cause perma-chill already. So it could also be incorporated in a swap-based build.

Nope, not practical at all, and only thing you will achieve is to be kicked from the group :P

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Everyone with half a brain and basic knowledge of the class could avoid the delay till now though.
It was like a work around to a bug. But lately I got a feeling that we have no longer bugs, just features.
It’s like the argument that everyone has a problem with “obstructed” so it is totally ok, that mesmers now have the same problem too. Instead of thinking along the line: Let’s fix this bug for all.

Amen to this, they do not know how to fix something so they say it is feature:D

Exactly what the previous user posted. You cannot expect to match pimped ppl on lvl 80 and their equipment. Elementalist is weakest class in the game when played wrongly. Low Hp base 10k and complicated combos makes it hardest class to master. But once you master few things, it is absolutly rewarding. Consider to try warrior or engineer, those are much easier to play. Also staff is siege only most of the time in Wvw, if you want to kill ppl, time to start learning d/d:D

Pointless thread. I am active in mesmer/thief/warrior/elementalist and i do not see any whining or QQing about d/d elementalist. It is incredible hard to play correctly compared to 3 button warrior/thief. on the opposite hand thieves… should be scared

Do it like me, i have 80 thief, 41 ranger, 80 war, 80 mesmer and now leveling 51 elementalist:D So when anet comes with new patch/nerf i switch to class which is least broken:D

Mefistofell.8619:

ddoi.9264:

Numot.3965:

So tossing an auto when you have blindness to get rid of it, like a smart person is too much effort?

A solution to a broken mechanic doesn’t mean the mechanic is not broken anymore.

U guys think other classes dont have problem with blind ? we all suffer from it ,considering how long cd some skill of the other classes has ,and we dont have 5 guys who look like us running around on the field and confusing every1 do we? not to mention all the other cool stuff u have. Blind messes up every1 combo not only mesmers

It is lovely how little you know about mesmer:D Are we playing the same game :P?

Knote.2904:

That skill is definately very very strong.

Although instead of reducing the pull range, I think a good compromise would be to make it suck targets onto the center point instead of yanking them past the curtain, this would nerf it’s ability to fling people off walls and ledges a bit but also make it much better tool for gathering things to be aoe’d, and would work much better with iWarden.

Yay/Nay? =p

While it sounds pretty interesting , i am not sure how other fellow mesmers, i say first fix our plenty bugs before cripling what works and is left on us.
BTW your fix would proly end into another bombing sport & infamous Warhammer online magnet/chaos rift bombing, pulling ppl into centre where already waits massive aoe dmg. And i tell you, that’s not fun:D

Hello, i am looking for active friendly bigger guild – English based.
I like PvE and WvW, not fond of spvp or tpvp.
I have 80 full exotic mesmer, 80 ful exotic thief, 80 warrior, 41 ranger and 16 engineer.
I would also bring my friend with me preferably.
I am ventrilo user but i can adapt to ts3 or mumble.
Forgot to mention i am on Aurora Glade :P
Ty

STRanger.5120:

Mjk.7562:

Exotic thief 80, full berserker, ruby orbed for max dmg/crit dmg output, traits 10/30/30/0/0 and far from being squishy with barely 12khp :P It is all about playstyle with cloak and dagger, shadowstep, sactuary. Nobody is gonna survive when focus fired anyway. If they give thief same hp pool as necro, then you will see some serious QQing

12K hp? so you have some points in vitality, right? Or you count in the WvW bonuses?

might be food.

Deceptive Evasion +

i agree that it s not that easy to pull people off walls if they dont stand on the edge.
meanwhile the OP’s signature take a funny meaning in the light of his post.
Ralathar, you should read your sig again and have more faith in what you believe, you will only be stronger..

/agree LOL

Yes, lets nerf something because it can disturb the jumping puzzles:D

Guess i will do that from now also, just for the fun factor:P

Exotic thief 80, full berserker, ruby orbed for max dmg/crit dmg output, traits 10/30/30/0/0 and far from being squishy with barely 12khp :P It is all about playstyle with cloak and dagger, shadowstep, sactuary. Nobody is gonna survive when focus fired anyway. If they give thief same hp pool as necro, then you will see some serious QQing

When i started my mesmer it was awful and painful to play her in early levels, gladly memser gets better with levels but lot of ppl are impatient and quit it. It is very rewarding class if played right but it is all about quick combos, reactions, counters, movement. Not like when i played my warrior or thief, mash 3 bottons.

-1 to Op for pointless QQ/trolling thread, if anything should get nerfed it is mainly portal in wvw. It is riddiculous to see ppl can cry even about minor/not that used skills.
When i see mesmer they mostly use GS/staff combo or pistol as offhand.

I myself use focus/sword/gs, and i can tell you it is NOT easy to draw ppl from walls at all.

Redscope.6215:

BabelFish.7234:

Saulius.8430:

i see you rarely run into tanky mesmers what if i told you, that blind makes only 1st attack miss?

Then you’d be lying. After looking in the Mesmer forums blind kills off 1/2 of the Mesmer skills.

After looking in the Mesmer forums, I see a lot of players that never had to deal with blind before crying their eyes out. Since they’re just now learning how the game REALLY works, what with LoS, Dodge, Block, Miss, Out of Range and Blind actually factoring in to skill usage, mesmer players are going to have to adapt and get back on their feet.

Don’t worry, they’ll get used to it eventually.

It is actualy not that bad with blind, as GS mesmer user i mainly use GS to deal dmg and it hits hard and rapidly. Lately the thieves are not that dangerous as there are plainly too many of them and they lowered massively in quality:D Hard to find the decent one. Funny to see the heartseaker spammers back in action:D

BabelFish.7234:

I find that most mesmers are easy now, however once in a while I run into a masmer who’s shatter deals a good 8-10k dmg to me while I wear full exotics with power/tough/vit stats. Its not often and I assume they’re so fragile if I ever sneezed on them they’d die though.

8-10k per shattered illusion or total damage? Per illusion it is impossible as i am full exotic berserker with orbs with best food and full bloodlust, and my shatter does 3k per illusion if crited.

If tottal shatter then 10 K is achievable, but you need 3 summoned clones first and all the setup takes longer than any thief burst combo or warrior combo :P

That’s why i stopped to play my ranger on 40, thanks god i reroled, now having 80 thief, 80 mesmer, 80 war… never ranger again.

It was funny to see test of full glass cannon exotic ranger AOE with longbow and seeing numbers which are lesser than basic autoattacks of most classes:D There are so many issues with ranger that it is not even funny, problem is that it is built in the core of ranger and i do not have hope it will be changed, like… speed of bow projectiles… wtf Mesmer’s GS ftw or warrior’s riffle:D Those are 10x better rangers than ranger itself.

For example thief’s cluser arrow single shot can do more dmg than all focused pindown longbow aoe:P But RESPECT to those 80 rangers roaming around wvw

Klaus: your post doesnt make sense at all, better in what? Surviving, exploration, damage, frustration, death counts:)?

How are we supposed to know what you like to play, what suits you? Just check thief forum, check necro forum, skip QQ posts and problem solved.

coglin.1496:

plasmacutter.2709:

As of last patch mesmers are broken.

Their traits and overall survivability are tied heavily to the presence of clones and phantasms which now cannot be summoned if your primary target blocks, dodges, or goes invulnerable, or if you happen to be blinded.

Wa, wait, what? your claiming because your abilities do not work when your primary target blocks, dodges, or goes invulnerable, or if you happen to be blinded, that your mesmers are broken? I have heard of misinformation before but that is just a stupid thing to say. Because that is game design and it is how all classes work, stop trying to claim it broke mesmer, its embarrassing.

Your post is embarrasing, not his. If the same rules are aplied to ALL classes, then it is fine, but if it is only mesmer who cannot use his CORE ability when blinded or target block/dodge, then there is something wrong. Mesmer is build around illusions, and i agree right now it is semi-broken as clear LOS will still often get you “obscured” message and your ability goes on full timer without working.

Kurow.6973:

Obtena.7952:

That’s nice but how is that relevant to thieves?

The fact that they have the lowest survivability…idk…maybe?…just maybe?

Lowest survivability? Lol. I die on my thief absolutly least from all my toons, (war, mesmer).

HeeHee.5208:

If I get Moa off, and assuming it is “THE” glass cannon thief build, then they don’t stand a chance!

If I don’t get Moa off, RUN!

until Anet fixes the rendering issues or that you can’t stealth to the point where you can only be tab-targeted for 0.5 secs…

Finaly somebody gets the core of the problem with thieves:D

Fully agree with OP even another class posting into thief’s forum about overpowered thiefe sounds alittle like trolling:D

Anyway, my main is thief, full berserker exotic, glacccannon on equip 10/30/30/0/0 survivability. My honest oppinion is we are horrible unbalanced and overpowered. You mentioned 8k backstab which is , for me, low end of my backstabs or maybe vs heavy class. I can reach 12k with signed and being glass cannon in traits. I have seen 15-16k backstabs but no idea how to reach it yet. Some ppl say something about squishines, i am far from squishy with long stelths and massive regen in stealth and remove condition in stealth.

It is kind of perfect class for all moments, and classical lazy stealth, preloaded cnd, backstab with or without basilisk venom, takes down 80% of wvw ppl. Honestly it is fun the first week, maybe another, then it is plainly boring :/ If you ask me, i honestly expect some dramatic nerf to thief’s burst in form of backstab and steal dmg ner or maybe some sort of stealth adjust. I shelved my thief and play mesmer as it offers kind of much better fun factor but of course in wvw, i am dead in 2 sec by thief

My main is thief full exotic berserker 10/30/30/0/0 for survability. There must be new trick tho cuz my backstab, with all foods, signet, and when specing 30/30/10/0/0 never wevt over 12k on soft target. With my current it is 8-10k on softs. But when i tried my mesmer in WvW 2 days ago, i got hot by 9k,steal,6k cnd,15k backstab. I was also like wtf. So there must be new thief trick to reach these numbers, which also will lead to complains and sooner or later the backstab/steal dmg witll get mega nerf.

Not to duplicate the post, check :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/how-do-mesmers-survive-1v1-with-a-thief/first#post832677

Kasama.8941:

This is exactly what i was writing about in earlier post. While i thank you for the advice and the OP probably also, the source of the problem is before you press the button binded to blink (even you already have finger on it) you drop dead :P Tho of course i agree than more vit/toughtness might help you in certain cases. But i tell you this, last time i had mesmer in WvW and not my thief, i got 9k hit by steal, 6k preloaded cnd, i reacted by pressing decoy and immediately dodge, … i had like 2k hp left after cnd, i got stealth animation and never got dodge as following backstab for 15!!!!!k finished me, bit of overkill tho.

This is where the problem is, the thief’s burst aplied in 1-1.5 second, fater when hasted. There is plainly no time to reac to the burst. All what can help is .. observe observe and observe, never let thief to get jump on you and preferably travel with friends:D

You should never take your eyes of the battlefield, and never stay in corners or hilled areas for too long. When you run around, always try to run at the highest place possible. This will make you able to see for longer distances, so you can see the Thief coming from a long way away. Also always use your left mouse button to look around when you are running. If you don’t use it, you get tunnel vision and become very easy to sneak up on from both the side and the back.

The times a Thief has bursted me down in Worlds PvP, I can count on one hand. And it has never been in 1v1 fights. My Mesmer is currently level 26.[/quote]

There are situations when you cannot costantly sweep area around you with your keen eyes, like when you are battling someone. That’s exactly when i usualy go down vs thief, i start dueling a person, poof – bad luck, insta gibed by roaming thief.

:D + for Op, this thread made me giggle.
That’s why i do not run dungeons:D

Kasama.8941:

djmckie.4876:

Kasama.8941:

Get some toughness, that’s the first thing to do. The Thief’s damage is pretty much always direct damage, and your health pool as a Mesmer is low.

Mesmers Have a pretty high health pool don’t they? The fact Mesmer have High health is the reason not to go vitality, but you are right, toughness is a must if your worried about thieves getting the jump on you.

I find it really funny that every class has to trait to counter the thief :P

Yes I meant high, corrected it.

The Mesmer actually has a medium base health pool. Elementalist, Guardian, and Thief has 10k base health. Mesmer, Ranger, and Engineer has 15k base health. And Warrior and Necromancer has 18k base health.

The Thief is balanced out by being squishy and not having any real AoE attacks. So if the Thief wasn’t great at 1v1, it really wouldn’t be good at anything.

I have decided to correct ppl constantly spreading false informations about thieves. Thief can use sword = aoe, true hp on lvl 80 berserker thief is slightly under 12k. My thief is not full glass cannon 10/30/30/0/0 and is VERY far from squishy, it is all about l2p issue with thieves and their survevability. I am not sure how much you know about thieves but i play both and my thief aoe>>> mesmer aoe, just pure cluster arrow spamming with or without haste , or combo poison aoe arrow with cluster arrow for nice aoe weakness. Also thief’s shortbow’s default attack is bouncing between targets which could be considered as aoe.

Btw cluster arrow can crit 6k for me, but i am far from dmg cap of other thieves who reported 8+k cluster arrow dmg. Not bad when you can shoot like 3 in few sec with haste .

Hope this cleared few things.

Kasama.8941:

Get some toughness, that’s the first thing to do. The Thief’s damage is pretty much always direct damage, and your health pool as a Mesmer is low, so it’s not really worth getting vitality at early levels. Even just going 10 into the Chaos trait line will give you “gain 10 seconds regeneration at 75% health” and “3% reduced damage for each illusion you have up”. Condition damage can easily be taken care of by skills, if it even becomes a problem at all. Condition damage is pretty uncommon in Worlds PvP, mostly because it’s a lot easier to beat down doors with direct damage. But luckily there are other roles in Worlds PvP then banging on doors, like pulling enemies down from walls, scouting for incoming zergs, or running for supplies (portal is great for this).

Anyway, the first thing you want to do when a Thief attacks you, is teleport away. You aren’t going to run out of his damage range, so you need to use Blink, or Phase Retreat on the staff. You can also stun him or pull him away with Into The Void, but using teleportation is much faster. After getting out of the Thief’s initial burst range, you want to start creating clones to throw off his focus on you. Try not to dodge roll around too much, since that will distinguish you from your clones. Instead, you have to be brave and stand still until you can see the Thief going for you. When this happen, you then start to use stealth and teleportation skills like Decoy, Blink, and Portal. But you should only move when the Thief has spotted you. All of this will result in the Thief loosing focus on the fight, which means that you will either kill him because he’s too busy finding you to worry about his health, or see him run away from you because Thieves tend not to have a lot of patience. The Thief is also a burst profession, so if he’s run out of initiative juice, he going to be an easy target for you.

The best advice, though, is to play a Thief and learn the tricks, so you’ll know what to look out for. But generally, Thieves are pretty predictable.

Hope this helps.

This is exactly what i was writing about in earlier post. While i thank you for the advice and the OP probably also, the source of the problem is before you press the button binded to blink (even you already have finger on it) you drop dead :P Tho of course i agree than more vit/toughtness might help you in certain cases. But i tell you this, last time i had mesmer in WvW and not my thief, i got 9k hit by steal, 6k preloaded cnd, i reacted by pressing decoy and immediately dodge, … i had like 2k hp left after cnd, i got stealth animation and never got dodge as following backstab for 15!!!!!k finished me, bit of overkill tho.

This is where the problem is, the thief’s burst aplied in 1-1.5 second, fater when hasted. There is plainly no time to reac to the burst. All what can help is .. observe observe and observe, never let thief to get jump on you and preferably travel with friends:D

Since relase i have always been against this flawled tagging of mobs for treasure… Even my thief can get more treasures in events, long live the Shortbow:D.

i just cannot get rid of decoy/blink. Way too good skills on the bar

My experience:

Pve vise thief is fun as it is challenge, much toughter than my war/mesmer.
Also traveling is easier as you have access to perm. 25% speed, shadowstep, sb 5 skill.

Ambush – 3/10
Assassin’s Signet – 5/10
Blinding Powder – 5/10
Caltrops – 5/10
Devourer Venom – 3/10
Haste – 5/10
Ice Drake Venom – 1/10
Infiltrator’s Signet – 3/10
Needle Trap – 1/10
Roll for Initiative – 4/10
Scorpion Wire – 7/10 , if you hit
Shadow Refuge – 10/10
Shadow Trap – 3/10
Shadowstep – 9/10
Signet of Agility – 3/10
Signet of Shadows – 7/10
Skale Venom – 1/10
Smoke Screen – 5/10 very situational can vary from 5-9 depending on sit.
Tripwire – 1/10