Guild Wars 2

Hmm, I should have double posted so I could reserve space for notable quotes. Oh well, too late now.

Knox.8962:

Inventions snip
Traits that I feel would be appropriate in this line: Protection Injection, Invigorating Speed, Reinforced Shield, Backpack Regenerator, Experimental Turrets, ROBO LEGS, Bunker Down, Automated Response, Fortified Turrets + Metal Plating

Knox.8962:

Alchemy snip
Traits that I think belong in this line: Blast On Heal Skill, Elixir Gun Trait, Heal-Splosion, Med Kit Trait, Self Regulating Defenses, HGH + Fast Acting Elixirs, Incoming heals heal allies for a %, Cleansing Formula 409 + Fast Acting Elixirs

Hmm, your revised Inventions trait structure still leaves the possibility of running 2-3 turrets (Healing Turret, Rifle Turret, X) and coupling that to Heal-SPLOSION. This would leave a healy bunker build to look like:

• Invigorating Speed/Reinforced Shield. ROBO LEGS. Fortified Turrets + Metal Plating
• Blast on Heal. Heal-SPLOSION. HGH+Fast Acting Elixirs for use with Elixir S; or the Cascade % incoming heal to allies.
• Option of running 409 in Tools to eke out a bit more cleanse, or for more endurance regen through Adrenal Implant. Explosives for the EPK Blast Finisher would also work.

A build like this essentially treats Turrets like short term Blast Finishers for excellent spike healing and projectile mitigation (just blow them up after 3 seconds).

This is not to say that a sustain bunker shouldn’t work; just to emphasise that you don’t really have many gains or opportunity costs either by shuffling things between Inventions and Alchemy. After all, people who are bunkering are probably going to take them both anyway. The theme may or may not matter; but if the builds are the same, then you haven’t really accomplished much. As a result, the only significant change here is moving ROBO LEGS down from Firearms to Inventions.

Knox.8962:

Tools – This line is tied to gadgets, but the rest of the tree is essentially open to all kinds of fun stuff. I’d say that this tree has the most potential for crazy, random and fun ideas of any trait line in the game. Unfortunately, there is virtually no identity to the line. It is basically Speedy Kits and Static discharge. Cleansing formula 409 feels out of place here and half of the traits are placeholders.
snip

I agree with this. Anet needs to make a decision; just as they did with Elementalist Elemental Attunement, whether something that is potentially so powerful should or should not be Master or Grandmaster. If they make it GM, then the caveats such as lack of control should be taken away. If they make it Master and leave it unchanged, it will still be picked, but for the Speedy Kits consolidation rather than actual usefulness of the Kit Refinement procs. As for the TBDs, we can only speculate.

I would say that the Tools line needs the most work. Not because it is inherently bad, but because in those 9 traits Anet somehow has to get stuff that works for nearly all builds. This is probably the reason behind all the TBDs.

I would start with the Minors and work from there. The previous incarnation of Tools had an emphasis on the interaction of Toolbelt skills; but only insofar as the Minors. Unfortunately the Minors have little synergy. So an improved version could look like:
Minor Traits

• Adrenaline Pump: Restore 10 Endurance when using a Toolbelt skill.
  • Nothing really needs to be changed here.
• Inertial Converter: Reduce the cooldown of Recharging Toolbelt skills by 10% for every successfully evaded attack.
  • The previous 25% HP threshold full recharge is super clutch, but runs counter to the developers wanting to eliminate passive play. It also buffs Toolbelt centric Static Discharge builds more than other builds that may wish to with-hold their Toolbelts.
• TBD: Current proposal is to add back 20% Toolbelt recharge, everything else up in the air. I would propose:
  • 20% Toolbelt recharge. When a Toolbelt skill is used, gain 50-100 Ferocity for 10 seconds.
  • This returns some lost Ferocity due to the Specialisations changes. Again though, it requires active play.
  • For a more build agnostic implementation, instead make the next attack a Critical Hit. (Essentially an Intelligence Sigil proc). This buffs Crit-proc conditions and Zerker builds equally; but is significantly harder to balance.

This is an attempt at consolidating feedback for Engineers regarding the upcoming Specialisation changes a la Gates Assassin’s Necro and Ele threads that attempt to pull together a cogent, developer comprehensible narrative of how the players perceive the Engineer will fare.

Quoting from Gates:

Here’s what I want to see:

1. If you have old posts with suggestions, link to them and I’ll include it.
2. If you have ideas for reworks, post them here.
3. If you have a build type that you’ve always wanted to see for elementalist, post it!
4. You don’t need to work with what they gave you. Feel free to completely make up your own traits!
5. While I am the PvP Forum Specialist, I’ll try to include everything I can, even if it dips into PvE and WvW.

Feel free to link threads (quoting notable comments within would be good) that you feel should be addressed regarding the state of the Engineer moving forward.

To start us all off, here’s Chaith’s comprehensive specialisations review that serves as an excellent springboard for discussion.

To kick us off:

A lot of people in the community have been wondering what was in store for Engineers’s meta PvP builds after the newly announced specializations come in, and the answer to that is: Who knows yet! snip

So, let’s start with the general Engineer changes.

Profession Changes:

• Forceful Explosives baseline.
• Accellerant-Packed Turrets baseline. Turrets will only knock back on detonation, not death.
• Rifled Barrels baseline.
• Coated Bullets baseline.
• Med Kit will see a re-work.
• Elites will get a corresponding f5 Toolbelt ability
• Mortar becomes a kit, and a re-work.
• Supply Crate will become a detonatable Turret, ie, reworked.
• Toss Elixir X, a new f5 ability that will transform any enemies affected briefly into a Moa.
• Grenadier’s ‘throw an extra nade’ functionality is now baseline.
• Grenade kit’s range will be nerfed to 900.
• Pistol 1 and Rifle 5 become explosions, benefitting from all explosion related traits.

The following current functionalities have been deleted, and likely won’t be reworked, moved, or re-introduced. If these really underutilized traits that very few people took were things that you absolutely needed for your build/playstyle to work, and new traits don’t provide it, then you might as well speak up!

• Acidic Elixirs.
• Empowering Adrenaline.
• Exploit Weakness.
• Reserve Mines.
• Enhanced Performance.
• Short Fuse.
• Synaptic Overload.
• Fireforged Trigger.
• Sitting Duck.
• Rifle Mod
• Go For The Eyes.
• Bunker Down.
• (All Inventions Minor Traits, including Automated Medical Response)
• Protective Shield.
• Stabilized Armor.
• Energized Armor.
• Cloaking Device.
• Power Shoes.
• Elite Supplies.
• Auto-Tool Installation.
• Rifled Turret Barrels.
• Energy Conversion Matrix.
• Acidic Coating.
• Blood Injection.
• Potent Elixirs.
• Enduring Damage.
• Deployable Turrets.
• Scope.
• Armor Mods.

Dirame.8521:

I wouldn’t put too much stock into what they are doing currently because of how unfinished and out-of-game it was, though we definitely have to tell them what we don’t want to see. I’ve also refrained from theorycrafting for that reason. I mean come on, 11 Blasts in one build? And each of those Blasts heals twice? Please Anet, have a seat because I think you lost yourself on your way down to the stream.

Yep. What we saw of Engineer was extremely preliminary; so I don’t put much stock in what I saw. That being said I do fear that once again Engineer will be left half-done and balanced over time just as it was for launch. It is certainly the most dramatically changed of all the professions; with two whole trait lines being nuked and remade (Explosives and Inventions) and another two nerfed severely (Tools and Alchemy). This is even before the Elite specialisation too; of which I have no doubt will centre around drones from the trailer and the Hammer.

Anet has a golden opportunity here to rework all their old “lazy” design work and make Engineer into a much more defined class with greater build variety. Juggernaut’s changes and Kit Refinement’s consolidation into Speedy Kits bodes well for two former “dead” builds.

In terms of feedback, the main focus should be in trying to steer Anet away from passive procs. Traits that take advantage of new tech, such as on successfully evading an attack should also be leveraged for Engineer.

For active traits, Warrior has tons and tons of active traits that each alter playstyle in a slight but significant way. I think that’s a design philosophy that should be extended to every class. The Inventions line looks promising for Support builds, but I feel that Grenades will still dominate mid-range even with the range nerfs; that Turrets will be much maligned by the class if unchanged; and that Gadgets will still languish unless the skills themselves are altered in some way that redefines their role beyond CC. Elixirs will continue to be defined by the numbers; entering and exiting the meta by way of the duration of their effects; but otherwise not truly playstyle defining. Especially now with the nerf to HGH by moving 409 to Tools.

What would be really interesting is the possibility of finally giving Engineer access to a Weapon swap through the Elite specialisation. If the trailer is truly prophetic, and Engineer finally gains targeted, autotracking gap closers through the Hammer set; it could really shake up the way the class plays to the core. I would presume that the caveat in this case to be sacrificing the ability to equip a kit.

I think that in terms of profession outlook, Engineers have a bright future ahead of them. My other main, Elementalist, has yet to receive anything that actually changes the class away from the stance dancing meta nor even having the choice to “lock out” an attunement for new and different sets of skills.

For Heart of Thorns, the greatest excitement will be in rediscovering what makes each class unique. I have my doubts that Anet will be able to achieve this for classes like Elementalist and Necromancer, but for Engineer at least, I look forward to the prospect of starting from scratch once again.

I’m debating whether to start a thread like Gates Assassin’s Necro Feedback thread for Engineers. I may as well, but the slowness of the Engineer forum to me says that everyone is taking the proposed changes in with some cautious optimism. That said, silence is the worst feedback so I may type something up tomorrow.

Regarding the Inventions changes, I’ve theorycrafted a 0-100 spike healer. .

If the Inventions Adept 2 trait has no Internal Cooldown then instead I would run Med Kit with Throw Mine and Traveller’s Runes .

I see a couple problems with the current Specialisations as they stand.

• Firearms had nearly all the Zerker engi relevant traits taken out: Rifle Mod, Sitting Duck. Enduring Damage and Empowering Adrenaline were also deleted.
• Tools has been severely nerfed for Zerker engi by putting Power Wrench along with Static Discharge.
• There are still way too many passive procs with Engineer; emblematic of lazy design. The Rocket-on-Crit, Incendiary Powder+Napalm Specialist, Shrapnel, Infused Precision+Precise Sights, Self-Regulating Defenses – all these traits being retained while other classes get interesting new synergies and effects that are predicated upon skillful play is disheartening.

Really solid tutorial. I think it would be good to link your How to Power Engi fundamentals VOD as well though.

Dirame.8521:

MonMalthias.4763:

This is actually a really good initiative. The previous attempts kind of petered out so I lost interest; but it’s coming back at the right time and in my opinion with the right speakers; Ceimash/Dirame in particular.

Thanks dude! Haven’t seen you in a while! Glad to know you haven’t completely quit!

Working full time tends to do that.

A few things about the podcast itself:

• Audio levels are horrible. CombustibleLemons is super loud (and only cuts in 3 minutes into the video) and Ceimash is super quiet.
• There’s little to no structure or preamble going through the things to be discussed. I think it would be good just to quickly say, for example; we’ll go through PvP, then PvE, then WvW or to discuss the class’s recent and upcoming changes and going through what it means for each of the three game modes.

It is the first Engenious in a long time, so there’s obviously room for improvement. The previous podcasts suffered from the same problem of lack of structure, but the hosts changed every time so I don’t blame the lack of planning.

A few points about the points raised during the video:

• Turret Engineer’s nerfs, in my view at least, were justified; but Anet did not look towards reworking Turret skills and so the build is now useless. With the specialisation changes coming up the triple/quad Turret build will be buffed due to being able to combine Fortified Turrets with Metal Plating with Experimental Turrets. Accelerant packed turrets will be baseline as well; which is a massive buff to self-peel. The opportunity cost will be significantly lessened and the build will gain significant cleanse and sustain.
  • Since the very design of the Turret skills encourage “unhealthy play patterns” due to long cooldowns and immobility, it would take a significant change to the way Turrets are played now to make them useful without being OP.
  • I suppose I should own up to possibly being the one to suggest that Turrets are as glassy as they are right now. I hope they implement the other parts of the post though.

• Celestial is strong due to its high effective health. That is, high Toughness and Vitality. The closer the Toughness and Vitality ratio is, the more damage you can theoretically take. This is why Soldier’s was favoured in WvW by most classes until the Celestial buff and the Rune changes. When Dire was released, some Engis would swap over to that for solo roaming; and the reason is the same.
  • Ammys like Rabid/Settlers/Clerics have no Vitality which decreases survival against Conditions, and ammys like Carrion/Zerkers have no Toughness which decreases survival against direct damage. The fact that Explosives gives 300 Power to a Celestial build gives good hybrid damage thanks to Ferocity and some Precision. There is a reason why meta builds are so. The specialisations will hopefully give Engineers and other classes some much needed Amulet flexibility; but I won’t hold my breath.

• League of Legends’ patch schedule vs GW2’s was brought up by me a while ago. I don’t think things will change. They got better towards end of 2014 though. Whenever Anet is working on a huge game-upending feature patch though, is generally when you can expect things to slow down.

• I posted my take on the Specialisations changes in Chaith’s thread.

I’ve reposted this from Chaith’s specialisation thread to try to make a relatively close analogue to how the build plays.

I used a combination of Dulfy’s tool and Chaiths Google spreadsheet of proposals for TBD traits. .

A rough analogue of the current Rabid/Celestial Engi falls out like this

Traits
Firearms
Minors

• Sharpshooter: 33% crits cause bleeding for 2 seconds
• Target the Weak: 10% crit chance against foes <50% HP
• Target the Maimed: 5% damage bonus against bleeding foes
  Majors
• Pistol Condition Trait (Potent Coagulants): Foes affected by Glue attacks gain 4 seconds of Slow, 20% Pistol CDR. If Rifle Celestial, <600 range 10% crit bonus_ would be good for Jump Shot/Blunderbuss executes.
• ROBO LEGS: 33% snare reduction. 7% Bonus to Swiftness IMS.
• Incendiary Powder: Critical hits inflict 4 seconds of burning, ICD 10 seconds. 33% increased burn duration. (5.32 seconds Burning after self-synergy)

Alchemy
Minors

• Hidden Flask: Elixir B at 75% HP
• Transmute: Convert 1 condition to Boon on hit, ICD 10 seconds
• Fortified Catalyst: 1% damage reduction per Boon. 20% increased Boon duration
  Majors
• Invigorating Speed: 5 seconds Vigour when gaining Swiftness
• Backpack Regenerator: 120 HPS when holding a Kit
• HGH/FAE: 20% Elixir CDR. 2 Might for 20 seconds when using Elixirs.

Tools
Minors

• Adrenaline Pump: 10 Endurance when Toolbelt skill is used
• Inertial Converter: Recharge Toolbelt skills <25% HP
• Toolbelt 20% CDR trait: Exactly as it says on the tin
  Majors
• Power Wrench: 20% Toolkit CDR, 10% bonus damage, Cripple on Auto and Toolbelt
• Speedy Kits/Kit Refinement: 10 seconds Swiftness on swapping to Kit, 10 sec ICD. Cast spell dependant on kit swap once per 20 seconds.
• Field Antidote: Cleanse condition when landing toolbelt skill that affects enemies.

Weapon would be Pistol/Pistol Rabid, or Rifle Celestial.
Utilities would be:

• Grenade Kit: Velocity and Radius of Grenadier is hardly a big loss especially at effective pressure ranges of ~700 (Still need other skills to be in range after all). People learning GK may still want Explosives, but losing Incendiary Powder cripples the build. A hyper offensive Explosives/Firearms/Tools variant might work, but would require Traveller’s Runes (sacrifices offensive stats) or Infused Precision and lose out of combat IMS for rotations.
• Toolkit: Obvious pick due to Power Wrench now in Adept.
• Elixir S (North America) or Elixir Gun (Europe). Elixir Gun variation would drop Invig Speed to put in Elixir Gun trait and use Energy Sigil; also dropping HGH/FAE for…something.
• Supply Crate (Teamfight) or Mortar (roamer). With the nerfs to Turrets, Mortar is looking really good; but lacks the CC potential/Med Kit heals to turn fights around. Not sure on this one.

It’s still too early to say how the devs will go ahead with filling out the rest of the TBD traits. There are a couple things I do think should be addressed before things are “baked in” so to speak:

• Making Kit Refinement controllable by adding an On Next attack or On swapping away from X kit trigger to the spell. Individual KR spell cooldowns instead of GCD is useful but not essential; the key is control.

• Addressing the loss of Rifle Mod, Enduring damage and Sitting Duck for Berzerker Rifle builds. It’s anywhere from 10-20+% damage loss for a build that is already off-meta. Without a rework to the Firearms Minor traits as I proposed in this post Engineer will be constrained to a largely Hybrid or Condition centric build pool.

• Without changes to Firearms then all falls to the Elite Specialisation tree to bring Zerker Rifle back from the dead; and that tree still has to incorporate the Drone traits and Hammer traits from the Trailer .

• Static Discharge now competes with Power Wrench as well; which is quite crippling.

• The TBD Gadget Trait needs to be absolutely ridiculous; or baseline effects of Gadgets need to be reworked. As it is, Kits were buffed; as were Turrets through trait compression and baseline effects. Gadgets will languish without something that adds cleanse, or sustain, or added functionality beyond a CC focus.

Well the thing is that you wouldn’t want to spam your signets before a fight to build up Might stacks from One With Fire because you would put all your cleanse on cooldown.

I do agree with altering Fire Aura’s basic function to be a little different. Elementalist even with the above build and its ~80% Protection uptime still won’t want to take too many hits.
~80% approximation derived from:

• Protection for 3 seconds per 10 on attuning to Fire (Flame Barrier + Elemental Shielding)
• Protection for 3 seconds per 6.66 on rotating through 3 Signets. (Conjurer + Elemental Shielding). Average = ~4.54 seconds per 10 maximum. Obviously you don’t just want to faceroll signets, so we’ll presume half that time @ 2.25 seconds per 10.
• Protection for 3 seconds per 10 on being Critically Hit (Soothing Ice + Elemental Shielding). Presuming that you are crit at least once in 10 seconds.
• Total Protection uptime = 3 + 2.25 = ~5.25 seconds before Boon duration; + another possible 3 seconds if getting crit = 8.25 seconds possible Prot uptime out of 10 seconds. 10.54 seconds out of 10 Protection uptime possible if you just faceroll Signets at full 6.66 rotation speed.

It would be easier if Fire Aura just made the next X (proposing 3) attacks apply Y (currently 10) seconds of Might so the Elementalist can focus on offense instead of deliberately getting hit. It also makes balancing easier because the number of attacks can be adjusted for balance reasons. Right now the balancing factor is that you have to take damage to get Might with 1 second ICD per attacker; which for Elementalist is suicide to take attacks from more than 1 attacker at a time anyway.

I don’t think that stacking Might pre-fight should be possible just by rotating through Auras. Might is still stackable by Blasting Fire Fields. The above build requires cooldown discipline. Proposing that the Fire Aura simply pulse Might stacks on application doesn’t really encourage skilled play. In combat, near 100% Fire Aura uptime will ensure that your Might Stacks are maintained as long as you attack people; but not before. You have Blasts in Fire Fields for that. The on-attack trigger also eliminates the melee vs range distinction.

This is actually a really good initiative. The previous attempts kind of petered out so I lost interest; but it’s coming back at the right time and in my opinion with the right speakers; Ceimash/Dirame in particular.

I suppose Blinding Ashes could be:

• Blind foes in an area when you execute a successful Blast or Whirl combo finisher:
  • Blind for 5 seconds, 240 radius
  • No or low ICD (<20 seconds)

I agree with some of the proposed reworks to certain Elementalist weapon skills like Shatterstone and so on.

Reposted from the Glyphs thread.

As for Fire Aura being buffed, more of the reworked functionality can be shifted onto the One With Fire trait, although this would do no favours for the tooltip in Specialisation view. Thus:
One With Fire

• Fire Auras you apply last longer and grant Might on application. Reflect incoming damage and reduce incoming condition duration
  • 33% Duration bonus
  • 2 x Might @ 10 seconds base duration (I presume the devs had Strength runes or something similar on)
  • Incoming Condition duration: -20%
  • Damage reflection: 5%

The alternative is as ILobo proposed:

lLobo.7960:

Fire aura needs to remove condi on beeing hit (1 condi, 1sec icd), reducing condi pressure on the ele and becoming a option besides water spec, but not beeing far superior to it.
The fire aura trait should provide might for every 2secs of fire aura. This would make chaining fire auras (instead of spamming) another option to stack might without having to use fields and blasts.

We need options, diversity, not nerfs!

So:
One With Fire

• Fire Auras you apply last longer and grant Might on application. Reflect X% incoming damage and cleanse Y Conditions on being hit
  • 33% Duration bonus
  • 2 x Might @ 10 seconds base duration (I presume the devs had Strength runes or something similar on)
  • Conditions cleansed on being hit: 1-2 (This is to make it more granular to balance instead of the feast or famine design of ILobo’s 1 sec ICD cleanse on hit)
  • Damage reflection: 5%

With the amount of incidental condition output nowadays and triple Signet + Lightning Flash builds having an average CD of ~20 seconds (with new Written in Stone trait) this puts the average Fire Aura output at ~20/3 = 6.6 seconds between possible activations.

• So you can cleanse up to 9-18 conditions per minute; well on par with the meta Cleansing Wave/Cleansing Water/Elemental Attunement/Evasive Arcana of 2 × 6 (2 per attunement to Water per minute) + 1 × 6 (1 Water Attunement dodge roll). Total = 18.
• Given that Signets are cooldown limited and require that you take damage to proc cleanse this is a fair tradeoff. Heck, you don’t even get the innate sustain of the meta build out of the bargain.

So an example build would be:
http://dulfy.net/2015/05/02/gw2-specialization-calculator-that_shaman/#profession=elementalist&traits=%22Fire%20Magic%22,2,5,8-%22Earth%20Magic%22,3,6,8-%22Water%20Magic%22,1,5,8

• Conjurer, One with Fire, Elemental Shielding, Auramancer for AOE Prot, Might and 2 cleanses on hit per Signet. High uptime Frost aura from Soothing Ice to reduce incoming damage.
• Written in Stone for maximum Fire Aura/Cleanse procs.
• Geomancer’s Freedom/Training for snare mitigation and Earth attunement Blast Finishers. This is necessary due to persisting Flames and the loss of Elemental Fury.

Basically one can expect:

• Protection uptime on par with current meta Elemental Attunement setups (3 seconds vs 5, but you can proc Prot with every Fire aura every 6.66 seconds if you rotate through your Signets, and get Frost Aura at 4 seconds per 10). Flame Barrier will also contribute.
• 9-18 cleanses per minute as discussed previously.
• Losing 5 seconds of Regeneration per 10 from Elemental Attunement and 1500 healing from Evasive Arcana is a significant loss, but made up for by Written in Stone permitting Signet of Restoration use on cooldown and higher Prot uptime overall.
• Unfortunately this build is highly defensive and relies almost entirely on blasting Fire Fields to get Fury and Might to compensate, so damage is unreliable. This is offset by unparalleled Boon output for ally support though.
• Boon hate will absolutely demolish this build.

lLobo.7960:

snip of own post

I think this should go in here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/suggestion-Fire-Aura-rework/

Noted. Reposted in relevant thread.

So here’s some theorycrafting, using a combination of Dulfy’s tool for specialisations and your Google spreadsheet .

A rough analogue of the current Rabid/Celestial Engi falls out like this

Traits
Firearms
Minors

• Sharpshooter: 33% crits cause bleeding for 2 seconds
• Target the Weak: 10% crit chance against foes <50% HP
• Target the Maimed: 5% damage bonus against bleeding foes
  Majors
• Pistol Condition Trait (Potent Coagulants): Foes affected by Glue attacks gain 4 seconds of Slow, 20% Pistol CDR. If Rifle Celestial, <600 range 10% crit bonus would be good for Jump Shot/Blunderbuss executes.
• ROBO LEGS: 33% snare reduction. 7% Bonus to Swiftness IMS.
• Incendiary Powder: Critical hits inflict 4 seconds of burning, ICD 10 seconds. 33% increased burn duration. (5.32 seconds Burning after self-synergy)

Alchemy
Minors

• Hidden Flask: Elixir B at 75% HP
• Transmute: Convert 1 condition to Boon on hit, ICD 10 seconds
• Fortified Catalyst: 1% damage reduction per Boon. 20% increased Boon duration
  Majors
• Invigorating Speed: 5 seconds Vigour when gaining Swiftness
• Backpack Regenerator: 120 HPS when holding a Kit
• HGH/FAE: 20% Elixir CDR. 2 Might for 20 seconds when using Elixirs.

Tools
Minors

• Adrenaline Pump: 10 Endurance when Toolbelt skill is used
• Inertial Converter: Recharge Toolbelt skills <25% HP
• Toolbelt 20% CDR trait: Exactly as it says on the tin
  Majors
• Power Wrench: 20% Toolkit CDR, 10% bonus damage, Cripple on Auto and Toolbelt
• Speedy Kits/Kit Refinement: 10 seconds Swiftness on swapping to Kit, 10 sec ICD. Cast spell dependant on kit swap once per 20 seconds.
• Field Antidote: Cleanse condition when landing toolbelt skill that affects enemies.

Weapon would be Pistol/Pistol Rabid, or Rifle Celestial.
Utilities would be:

• Grenade Kit: Velocity and Radius of Grenadier is hardly a big loss especially at effective pressure ranges of ~700 (Still need other skills to be in range after all). People learning GK may still want Explosives, but losing Incendiary Powder cripples the build. A hyper offensive Explosives/Firearms/Tools variant might work, but would require Traveller’s Runes (sacrifices offensive stats) or Infused Precision and lose out of combat IMS for rotations.
• Toolkit: Obvious pick due to Power Wrench now in Adept.
• Elixir S (North America) or Elixir Gun (Europe). Elixir Gun variation would drop Invig Speed to put in Elixir Gun trait and use Energy Sigil; also dropping HGH/FAE for…something.
• Supply Crate (Teamfight) or Mortar (roamer). With the nerfs to Turrets, Mortar is looking really good; but lacks the CC potential/Med Kit heals to turn fights around. Not sure on this one.

One of the things I noticed when theorycrafting is that there are many more ways to accomplish the same task (Energy Sigil/Traveller’s runes replacing Invig Speed/Speedy Kits etc.) nowadays given the choices of runes and sigils. I believe the devs were looking towards the long term with this specialisation update in mind when they put up the Rune/Sigil updates.

The specialisations changes give a lot of Quality of Life to every class, but I somehow doubt that there will be too many more builds falling into meta unless the skills, not the traits, are somehow reworked. Grenade Kit and Mortar in particular are case in point. If only they could extend that work to Gadgets and Turrets.

Chaith.8256:

Remember that Firearms still needs a condition oriented trait in the Adept department, I’d have to insist there be one there. Yes, it’s quite tiresome that Conditions go from effective to laughable based on the size of engagements.

What if some experimentation was done with a very limited number of abilities applying a condition that was not able to be removed with general purpose condition removal?

It’d certainly provide a big incentive to bring that ability along, if it had the power to apply a single short duration slow to everyone entering a choke, or something. I think you know what I’m getting at.

I would much rather have a Power oriented Potent Coagulants but I can see your point. Perhaps a Power version could sit in Explosives Adept Major. It would fit better than the proposed Lethal After Effect and define Explosives as Power oriented.

Then we swap Lethal After Effect into Firearms and get:
Lethal After Effect _Proposed alternative name: Neurotoxic Loadings

• Applying Conditions with Pistol Weapon Skills reduces the cooldown on your other Pistol Weapon skills by 2%
• Poison attacks you make (Poison Dart Volley, Poison Grenade) also inflict Slow. Duration: 3 seconds. Foes may only be affected once per ability.

The Cooldown reduction can also be flat 20% as per your original iteration as well.

Chaith.8256:

@CDR based on actions per minute, I think I have no problem with that.

• I think the main thing holding Firearms centric builds back at the moment is that you really do lose a lot by using less Kits. Awful autoattacks that bring the used cooldowns back faster can help mitigate that somewhat.
• At the current 0.8 second total attack speed for both Pistol and Rifle this yields ~12.5 total casts in 10 seconds doing nothing but autoattacking.
  • For 2-3% CDR per auto and presuming other skills are used one might expect a yield of ~20-30% CDR in the end while 25-37.5% is possible at maximum. So innately you buff mainhand centric builds more than ones that use multiple kits.

Chaith.8256:

@Modified Ammunition, it could definitely replace Target the Maimed, and a new power-oriented Master trait could replace it. It’s a passive damage boost and is pretty disappointing as a ‘choice’ to take.

I’ve thought a little more on this and what I came up with was this:

Adept Minor: Sharpshooter merged

• Bleed on Crit PLUS
• 10% bonus damage to Bleeding foes that Target the Maimed gives.

Master Minor: Target the Weak reworked

• *10% Critical Chance on Foes <50% HP
• 2% Critical chance per Condition on foe

Grandmaster Minor: Modified Ammunition

• 2% Bonus damage per Condition on Foe

This now compensates the loss of Rifle Mod/Enduring damage partially and makes it more conditional. Still a nerf, but nowhere near as crippling to Power Rifle. The loss of ~20% damage therefore is offset by:

• 10% from Bleeding Foes
• 2% extra on Bleeding Foes; more if more conditions like Cripple or Vuln. Average ~4-6% for Power builds without Grenades.
• Average ~4-6% bonus Crit chance; plus 10% at execution range.
• This is less difficult to maintain than 100% endurance so it comes out as a wash in the end.

Chaith.8256:

@Net Attacks doing a 200 dash forward, I just can’t picture that animation, lol.

It’s hard to add dashes anywhere else, I’m afraid. Power Engineer requires a perfect Magnet or a Stunbroken Overcharged Shot → Jump Shot → Blunderbuss and these are far riskier than just running Celestial and pumping out Nades for pressure while occasionally doing a Pry Bar or opportunistic Jump Shot execute.
By adding a dash to the Rifle set you gain a lot of flexibility.

An alternative could be to make Rocket Boots GTAoE and deal some landing damage a la Jump Shot, or maybe add something like DOTA Clockwerk’s Hookshot to Net Shot so you can pull yourself to the Netted foe. The dash is less committed, and the self-pull a la Elementalist Magnetic Leap would serve the same purpose but be more prone to desync. If they clean up the leap desyncs I would be all for a 1000 range Magnetic Leap though.

Chaith.8256:

@Incendiary Powder, whatever, as long as it functions well, and people who maximize invuln frames and aim to dodge every auto-attack don’t become too effective at mitigating all damage.

Honestly IP can stay as it is given that it’s been nerfed now. I was just hoping to make an alternative that hits on the “skillful active play” that the devs were emphasising.

Well, why not make GoEP X attacks after activation like I proposed? Now you have a 100% reliable proc rate, removed the ICD component (so now you can be really offensive with AOE spells and become a condi cleave machine) and the skill is now valuable even outside of Condi builds (due to 100% reliable Weakness and Chill).

As for Fire Aura being buffed, more of the reworked functionality can be shifted onto the One With Fire trait, although this would do no favours for the tooltip in Specialisation view. Thus:
One With Fire

• Fire Auras you apply last longer and grant Might on application. Reflect incoming damage and reduce incoming condition duration
  • 33% Duration bonus
  • 2 x Might @ 10 seconds base duration (I presume the devs had Strength runes or something similar on)
  • Incoming Condition duration: -20%
  • Damage reflection: 5%

The alternative is as ILobo proposed:

lLobo.7960:

Fire aura needs to remove condi on beeing hit (1 condi, 1sec icd), reducing condi pressure on the ele and becoming a option besides water spec, but not beeing far superior to it.
The fire aura trait should provide might for every 2secs of fire aura. This would make chaining fire auras (instead of spamming) another option to stack might without having to use fields and blasts.

We need options, diversity, not nerfs!

So:
One With Fire

• Fire Auras you apply last longer and grant Might on application. Reflect X% incoming damage and cleanse Y Conditions on being hit
  • 33% Duration bonus
  • 2 x Might @ 10 seconds base duration (I presume the devs had Strength runes or something similar on)
  • Conditions cleansed on being hit: 1-2
  • Damage reflection: 5%

With the amount of incidental condition output nowadays and triple Signet + Lightning Flash builds having an average CD of ~20 seconds (with new Written in Stone trait) this puts the average Fire Aura output at ~20/3 = 6.6 seconds between possible activations.

• So you can cleanse up to 9-18 conditions per minute; well on par with the meta Cleansing Wave/Cleansing Water/Elemental Attunement/Evasive Arcana of 2 × 6 (2 per attunement to Water per minute) + 1 × 6 (1 Water Attunement dodge roll). Total = 18.
• Given that Signets are cooldown limited and require that you take damage to proc cleanse this is a fair tradeoff. Heck, you don’t even get the innate sustain of the meta build out of the bargain.

Glyphs…need a lot of work.

BlackBeard.2873:

It can’t be done. For an ele utility to be useful it needs to be instant-cast and defensive (cantrips, signet of air, arcane shield) or have a short cast time and be much stronger than weapon-skills (arcane wave/blast, frost bow, occsasionally glyph of storms in pve).

Blackbeard nails it here with what is necessary for a Utility skill to be worthy of an Elementalist’s time on the hotbar. Right now none of the Glyphs really fit into the “super defensive” or “better than weapon skills” categories. There’s a lot of missed opportunity as well to really have usable skills brought over from GW1.

To address GoEP:
Glyph of Elemental Power

• The idea of a stunbreak giving you the opportunity to deal damage back sounds good in theory, but multiple skills across multiple classes have languished that have used this exact same design philosophy. See: Engineer Utility Goggles, Warrior Stomp etc.
• The RNG proc doesn’t help either. Though the effect duration of 30 seconds is long enough to proc at least once of each condition for all 4 attunements, that doesn’t exactly a good skill make.

In my opinion the skill can go one of two ways: super offensive or super defensive.

• For super offensive, Quickness is the order of the day. Removal of RNG is also a priority. Thus:
• Glyph of Elemental Power
  • Gain Quickness for 4 seconds. Break Stun.
  • Your next X attacks inflict Y Condition depending on Attunement.
  • Fire: Burning (3 seconds). Water: Chill (3 seconds). Air: Weakness (3 seconds). Earth: 4xBleeding (3 seconds).
• For X I’m thinking 5-6 attacks. So that’s a lot of Chill or Weakness; or a ton of Burn or Bleed that will be significant even for a non-condi build.

• For super defensive, GoEP should be replaced with “Glyph of Auras” or a new skill be introduced as such:
  • Glyph of Elemental Power (or Auras)
  • Break Stun. Gain 3 seconds of Stability. Gain an Aura based on your attunement for 5 seconds.
  • Fire: Fire Aura. Water: Frost Aura. Air: Shocking Aura. Earth: Magnetic Aura.
• This echoes a lot of old ideas in bringing in some Aura support to Elementalist Utilities that have really been absent outside of weapon skills.

One thing that must be addressed is Fire Aura though. Right now it’s…not great. I propose a rework:
Fire Aura

• Be embraced in the warmth of a Fire Aura. Blunt up to X attacks and burn them while becoming stronger. Unique buff: Fire Aura. X attacks blunted in bottom right corner as with Venom charges.
  • Reflect a portion of damage to attackers for the next X attacks. I’m thinking ~5-10% damage reflection. This is distinct from Retaliation wherein you still take full damage.
  • Foes attacking you are Burned for 1 second (No ICD). Gain 1 Might for 10 seconds when hit.
  • I’m thinking 3-5 attacks. 5 for Elementalist that can buff it with the reworked Conjurer trait; 3 for everyone else that gets it from Leaps into Fire Fields.
  • Duplicate Fire Auras add another 3-5 “charges” of reflection and their duration; again modifiable by the Conjurer trait.
  • As implied, Fire Aura ends prematurely if the charges are used up.

Valento.9852:

Just lower health threshold. It’s hilarious because ele’s HP goes up and down in a blink of an eye since it’s a light armor class with poor HP scaling. It can maintain survivability with boons and healing, but it cannot stay above 90% (HP scaling too low), so it becomes kinda useless and offers no synergy at all, mainly in pvp. Not to say most condition-applying skills also deal some damage high enough to grab 10% of ele’s HP.

It’s actually quite easy to stay above 90% as Elementalist in PvP – but only against Condition Classes. For Rabid Necro or Rabid Engineer or even Rabid Ranger (Though that would be a rare beast indeed) Diamond Skin in its current form is like running up against a brick wall. I will yield you that point though as long as you are talking about Celestial or Power builds.

The proposition to lower the health threshold is problematic because:

• Direct damage builds don’t rely on Conditions to kill. Half the time they don’t even need CC conditions like Immobilise or Fear to kill either; because there are hard CC effects like Stun or Daze.
• It makes Diamond Skin an even harder counter to Rabid builds.
• Celestial Builds have enough direct damage due to certain high coefficient skills to power through the 90% regardless; and use conditions as pressure rather than as a primary source of damage. See: Celestial Warrior/Elementalist/Engineer. So again, lowering the threshold doesn’t really address the problem.

Jekkt.6045:

diamond skin: soaks up condition damage equal to 20-30% (number depending on balance) of your maximum health everytime you attune to earth, conditions start damaging again afterwards.

This is similar to Supreme’s Resistance Boon for 2.5 seconds on Earth Attunement, but far harder to balance due to the Vitality trigger.

• A Celestial or Carrion built Elementalist stands to gain massively from the trait; but they already have good Vitality to increase TTK against Conditions.
• Zerkers or Valkyries or other low Vitality Elementalist builds gain virtually no buffer zone; yet these are the builds that arguably need the Condition immunity more.

So your net result is a trait that is marginally good for the meta Celestial; but is outcompeted by picks like Cleansing Water/Auramancer/Evasive Arcana. And a trait that might be good for off-meta builds like Zerkers or Valkyries, but those builds lack the stats to fully exploit it.

It would be far more straightforward to go with Supreme’s idea of Resistance:

Supreme.3164:

3rd Suggestion: Apply 2 and 1/2s of resistance boon when you swap to earth

Now you have something that can be tuned around uptime of the Boon rather than a derived statistic unique to each player’s build.

As for proposals in general, I think I would be behind any suggestion that requires active play and management or an active trigger. So triggers like:

• On crit, On hit
• Receiving x amount of conditions
• % endurance, HP etc.
  Should be avoided, in my opinion. On the other hand, triggers requiring active play, like:
• On attunement
• On next attack
• On heal/utility/elite etc.
  should be considered. Actually, there’s no on-heal trigger so here’s one:
  Diamond Skin
• On healing, gain 3 seconds of the Resistance boon. Gain the unique Diamond Skin buff.
• Your next attack consumes the Diamond Skin buff. Transfer X damaging conditions (Burn, Bleed, Poison, Confusion, Torment) to your foe on successful hit.

I keep coming back to condition transfer because although it isn’t a flavourful profession mechanic, it does address the lack of sustain for Elementalists going into Earth for counter-condi. The idea that the Elementalist’s skin is somehow hardened against corruption or even reflecting corruption back to the source amuses me. It could just as easily be straight cleansing though.

I think that it’s easy as Ele to be fixated on direct cleanse or targeted cleanse by attunement rather than other ways to manage conditions. It’s why I like Supreme’s idea:

snip
3rd Suggestion: Apply 2 and 1/2s of resistance boon when you swap to earth

There are other methods as well:
Diamond Skin

• Transfer x damaging condition(s) (Bleed, Burn, Poison, Confusion, Torment) to your foe on your next attack when you attune to Earth.
  • Right now I’m thinking x=2 as it is Grandmaster and Ele has relied upon approximately 2 cleanses per 10 seconds due to Cleansing Water/Cleansing Wave/Regen source before taking Utilities into account.
  • The loss of Healing Ripple when forgoing Water Magic means that you need a source of counterpressure (i.e. the Transferred condition) to make up for the lack of sustain. Targeted cleanse of damaging conditions is far more vital to Elementalist due to low base Vitality.
  • Utility Conditions (Immobilise, Chill, Cripple, Weakness, Slow) would thus be cleansed through other mechanisms, like Geomancer’s Training. There are synergies to be gained when comboing with offhand Focus (Magnetic Wave).

Beyond this I agree with the sentiment that there is a dire lack of traited cleansing capability for Elementalist outside of Water Magic or within utilities. The only direct cleanse from Utilities is still Cleansing Fire; and though there are now synergies to be gained from Casting Glyphs from Water Attunement with Inscription the Glyphs themselves need a lot of work before they can even come close to Cantrip power. So a second source of cleanse could come thusly:
Written in Stone

• Maintain the passive effects of Signets even when on cooldown
• 20% Signet cooldown reduction
• Cleanse conditions depending on what signet is activated
  • Signet of Fire: Burning, Weakness
  • Signet of Air: Torment, Cripple
  • Signet of Earth: Bleeding, Vulnerability
  • Signet of Water: Poison, Chill

The third source would probably have to come from either Glyphs or Fire Magic. However, Earth Magic being defensive should be where the counter-condi starts; just on a different line to how Water Magic does it.

Chaith.8256:

snip of own post
But yeah, I’ve reiterated on a lot of different things:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DQV1ohFOqlhOZ4cxM2nTQTU_M1zS41xA86sf5gHSofY/edit?pli=1#gid=0

snip

I suggested moving Modified Ammunition down to Master, and moving the ‘Rifle/Speargun’ trait up into a new Grandmaster to Firearms:

• ((Rifle/Speargun Trait: Reduced Recharge on Rifle/Speargun by 20%. Net attacks now deal damage and track foes. Reduced the velocity of net attacks by 20%. 391 Damage. .42 coef))
  snip

• Adrenal Implant & ((Gain Fury (3s) on wielding a Melee weapon or bundle. 10s ICD.))

I’ve just read through your Google spreadsheet and overall I like the general direction of your changes. I really like the suggested change to AED to not going below 1 HP and Minefield being GTAoE; I think that the Minefield change in particular I have suggested a year or two ago. I’d like to see those in-game even before this huge feature pack.

A few quibbles:

I suggested moving Modified Ammunition down to Master, and moving the ‘Rifle/Speargun’ trait up into a new Grandmaster to Firearms:

• ((Rifle/Speargun Trait: Reduced Recharge on Rifle/Speargun by 20%. Net attacks now deal damage and track foes. Reduced the velocity of net attacks by 20%. 391 Damage. .42 coef))

• Modified Ammunition; especially now with the loss of Rifle Mod and Enduring Damage should just be either Grandmaster Minor or Master Minor.
  • Target The Weak though being flavourful to Firearms being Crit-hits really punishes Power Rifle builds while being an insignificant boost to Pistol Condi builds. ModAmmo would be pretty much ideal if it sat here instead of taking up GM Major or even Master Major. Damage Boost passives shouldn’t be choices.
  • Target the Maimed being boosted to 10% against Bleeding foes is actually good and helps offset the loss of Rifle Mod.

As for the Rifle/Speargun trait, the Ready Up Video across multiple professions really emphasised alternative mechanisms to getting CDR for weapon skills instead of being flat CDR. The Net attack/Net Wall buff I don’t mind.

Flat CDR just doesn’t really change the way you play, which is what the devs seemed to fixate upon for GM traits. So:
Rifle/Speargun trait proposed name: Telescoped Bore Device

• Successful Homing Torpedo or Hip Shot attacks against foes recharge your weapon skills faster. 3% Recharge reduction per hit. This mirrors the new Mesmer Greatsword Training, but 1% stronger since no Illusions boosting attack speed.
• Net Shot and Net Wall now incorporate a short forward dash (200 units) and track targets better.
• Net attacks (Net Shot, Electrified Net, Net Attack, Net Wall) deal damage at 0.5 Coefficient (2000 × 1000 × 0.5 / 1846 = 541

In this way Rifle and Speargun gain additional tools to dictate distance (Blunderbuss and Scatter Mines and Jump Shot in particular really need this).

The gap created by putting Modified Ammo into Master or Grandmaster Minor can therefore be filled with something that boosts Hybrid builds. As an example:
Modified Choke

• Cone attacks (FT1, EG3, Pistol 4, Rifle 3, Poison Dart Volley) have increased 20% Condition duration)
  • This offsets the loss of general Condition duration from Explosives. Or heck, you could just make it unconditional and so you have flat 20% Condition duration at Firearms Master Major.

I still think that Incendiary Powder needs some kind of active play trigger rather than on-crit. Perhaps on successful evade or on Toolbelt use. This would allow IP to be buffed with less complaints that it is mindless spam.
Incendiary Powder

• Gain a charge of Incendiary Powder when you use a Toolbelt skill. (No ICD)
• Your next weapon skill consumes all charges of Incendiary Powder and applies 4 seconds of 2 stacks of Burning.

Now that Burning is stacking and the coefficient has been decreased this gives the standard HT/GK/TK/Elixir S build a way to apply steady pressure by rotating toolbelts, or set up a “burn spike” by triggering all 4 toolbelts.

Rotating through Toolbelts yields an average of
(21.75+26+17.5)/3=21.75 seconds average activation x 3
at baseline proposed 15% toolbelt CDR without investment into Tools.
This means an activation of IP up to every 21.75/3=7.25 seconds.
Thus, the average damage has increased but this is offset by IP now being cooldown-locked and dodgeable; and it can be played as pressure or as condi-burst.

Chaith.8256:

snip of own post

Firearms Adept: New Pistol Trait, Condition Focus.

• Potent Coagulants: Reduced recharge on Pistol skills by 20%. Foes entering Glue attacks are inflicted with Slow (4s). Foes may only be affected once. This trait will strengthen Pistol offhand’s Glue Shot utility, as well as promote synergy between Glue Bomb, Glue Trail, and Condition builds, especially in larger fights.

In unfriendly environments not conducive to spamming Bomb1 (All but instanced PvE and Frontline WvW), Bombs are entirely condition based. There will be a ton of condition users opting for Explosives, a the traits lay right now. Observe the Grandmaster Shrapnel trait and Pistol getting explosion status, if you have your doubts!

Also, my Glue suggestion was primarily for the large scale WvW applications of the game, as everybody game-wide is going to be chained to them. Engineers are pretty lacking in large scale deathmatch utility. I think the sheer amounts of blasts that are becoming available to Engineers will help that cause slightly, but it’s still a demographic that should be catered to.

I guess if you wanted to cater towards WvW then you definitely want to have Stability uptime then instead of something like Slow which is just going to get cleansed in a second with Staff Eles spamming Healing Rain. Now that Necros have had their Wells buffed massively with the one-stop-shop GTAoE – Siphon – CDR – Blind/Chill synergy a Well of Power would also be supremely powerful for counter-condi. This is why zerging has been dominated by largely CC and direct damage oriented builds; though a Corrupt Boon Necro mixed in has been quite potent.

What those two backliners lack is Stability output which has traditionally been the domain of Warrior and Guardian. Thus a niche exists:
Potent Coagulants

• Immobilise from Glue attacks pulse one more time (up from 1 pulse, 1 second baseline). Thus foes get immobilised twice for 2×1 seconds.
• Your Glue attacks pulse 1 stack of Stability for 1 second per second while active.
• Foes entering your Glue attacks take direct damage per pulse of coefficient 1.0 Power.

This makes Glue Trail, Glue Shot and Glue Bomb quite valuable. It also adds back some direct damage to sets that have traditionally lacked it. A foe with base toughness 916 (total armour 1846) would therefore take 2000 power x 1000 weapon strength / 1846 armour = ~1083 non crit damage x 2. Obviously in PvP and WvW this would probably drop down to ~600 or so, but even still this gives some Power Coefficient to sets that have lacked it.

One of the reasons why Engineer has been so Condi-dominated is due to so many 0 or low coefficient skills in its inventory. Rifle 2, Pistol 5, Shield 4 at 0.25 – these utility skills take away from direct damage focus and put it towards a more CC and Condi focus. I’m not saying that it isn’t what Engineer should focus on because traditionally these kinds of builds have been what has risen to the top; but it does serve to pigeonhole the class and erode Power functionality for Engineer that is already so weak and is set to become even weaker.

You need to hit that Pry Bar, and that Blunderbuss, and that double hit Jump Shot in Power builds; whereas it is just so much easier to kite around a point, spam bombs/nades and focus on defense for Celestial or Rabid builds; and reserve Blunderbuss or Blowtorch for executes.

Now that Incendiary Powder is in Firearms also, Explosives might be skipped over in favour of Firearms/Alchemy/Tools or some variation thereof because there’s little reason to get Explosives unless you’re looking into the utility side of Bomb Kit or looking to get 3-4 extra bleeds from Shrapnel. So I really think and hope that more is done to help Power Bombs or Power Nades for Explosives because otherwise it’s just more consistent to go Firearms/Incendiary Powder.

Chaith.8256:

Alchemy Master: Med Kit, TBD.

• Med Kit is in the midst of a rework, and the abilities are still undetermined. I’ll wait until the ability is revealed to suggest a trait improving the Med Kit.

One major deficiency with Med Kit as a support item is that it requires you to be point blank with allies to support them; which works great as a frontliner except there’s no gap closers to allies that need that support. Dropping an immobile pylon that gets left behind in mobile combat is less useful; as are Stimulants and Antidotes that you pick up due to running forward.

• Shadowstep to target ally when you Bandage self (F1) and heal them for 2000 HP. 500 units range.
• Drop Stimulant and Drop Antidote now affects allies in a 180 unit radius on pickup.

Chaith.8256:

Alchemy Master: Self Regulating Defenses.

• This trait is really underpowered in PvP, it wasn’t a popular Adept, and now it is a Master. Instead, Intravenous Drip: Reduce the casting time of drinking and tossing Elixirs by a 1/2 second. This will greatly increase the finesse in which Elixir builds operate.

I like this idea. Thrown elixirs always travelled quite slowly beyond 400 range or so; so increasing projectile velocity of thrown Elixirs is quite valuable.

Chaith.8256:

Alchemy Grandmaster: Automated Response.

• This trait somehow missed the pruning. It’s a trait that’s either cheese, or useless, just anti-fun for everyone. I suggest that it be totally replaced, but remain as stand-alone grandmaster for non-elixir users. Acidic Coating: When you gain vigor, gain a stack of Acidic Coating, causing the next attack against you to blind nearby foes in a 180 radius. Acidic Coating lasts for 10 seconds, and stacks up to 3 times. Can only activate once per second.

I too, dislike Automated Response. I like the idea behind Acidic Coating to replace it, but it is a little too passive and doesn’t have that counter-condi function.
Acidic Coating:

• Successfully dodging attacks grants a charge of Acidic Coating. ICD 5 seconds. A charge lasts up to 2 seconds. The next successful attack against you transfers one condition from you to the enemy. Basically a super-Transmute that’s Endurance limited. Actually it might make more sense nerfed as a replacement for Transmute. Not sure.

Chaith.8256:

Alchemy Grandmaster: TBD.

• Disintigrating Weaponry: Reduced cast time of the Flamethrower and Elixir Gun cone attacks by 50%. Retaliation damage taken is reduced by 66% while Flamethrower or Elixir Gun is equipped. This has high synergy with the Firearms Adept I proposed that grants 2 seconds of Might per crit.

I like this idea; although it kinda doubles FT1’s damage output so I’m a little leery of it. The current coefficient is 0.15 Power per hit x 10; this effectively doubles it over time.

Chaith.8256:

Tools Master: TBD.

• Gadgeteer. Reduced recharge of Gadgets by 20%. After a gadget is used, gain Utility Goggles for 3 Seconds.

So…you have triple stunbreak on your bar with infini-Fury? I can abuse this with Throw Mine/PBR for much lulz. That said, Zerker Engi looks to be supremely nerfed with the changes so I’m not averse to something ridiculous to bring it back. I would much rather have active condi cleanse for Gadgets though. Getting DOTted and kited to death is how a Burst Engi usually dies. That, or getting shrekt by a real Zerker class like Thief or Mesmer; who have more options to dictate positioning. Maybe make Slick Shoes a Shadowstep?

Chaith.8256:

Tools Grandmaster: Gadget Trait.

• Electromagnetic Matrix. A.E.D now lasts 8 seconds. Your attacks cause Static Shock to foes while you are under the effect of a Gadget if they are within 600 range. Each foe may only be affected by Electromagnetic Matrix every two seconds. Static Shock stuns for 1 second and does damage (A.E.D Toolbelt ability.) This turns A.E.D, Slick Shoes, and especially Utility Goggles into windows in which to put out serious pressure. Synergizes with the proposed Master Gadget trait, by allowing all other Gadgets to activate this trait for 3 seconds.

Offensive Shocking Aura! I would love to see this so that the counterpressure doesn’t immediately disappear once the Gadget’s CC effect is over.

• An alternative would be to make attacks against foes within 600 range cause Slow for 2 seconds. A defensive form. You could call it the Temporal Bending Device.

Chaith.8256:

Tools Grandmaster: TBD.

• Fancypants Name. Successfully landing a Toolbelt ability that targets enemies will remove one condition. Competes with Cleaning Formula 409.

I feel like it’s either going to be something like this, or the same mechanic to replace Automated Response. Call it Toolbelt Disinfectants.

Chaith.8256:

My answers to the TO BE DECIDED, and other suggestions!

Explosives Adept: Rocket Belt Thingy.

• Esports Rocket: (Name pending.) Fire an Explosive Rocket after a foe when striking them below the health threshhold and greater than 600 range. Health Threshold: 50%. ((Player, Veteran or stronger.)) 20s ICD. This ability would function similarly to Rocket Turret’s overcharge ability, except dependent on the user’s stats. It’s the Esports Rocket! This trait should provide a well telegraphed stand-alone choice for a non-grenade user.

This might be better as an execution trait:

• Attacks against a target at less than 50% HP build an Esports rocket charge; up to 5 charges. ICD 1 second to prevent Grenades from being OP.
  • Triggering the F5 Elite Toolbelt skill fires 1 Esports Rocket per charge. Now you have a dodgeable execute for Power builds.

Chaith.8256:

Explosives Adept: TBD.

• Lethal After-effect: Bombs inflict one second of poison per pulse. Conditions inflicted by Bombs have their duration increased by 33%. This trait will create a way for condition Engineers to recover from the loss of Condition Duration now detached from explosives, and actually replace Grenades as a the main damage kit. Competes with Grenadier.

This isn’t a bad trait, but I think it’s clear that Anet wants to make Explosives the direct damage focus and Firearms the Condi focus. I’m not averse to the Teldo build though; and this iteration definitely gives Rabid Bombs good pressure.

One thing I would like to see is for bombs to be thrown forward as baseline to improve their offensive capability and their telegraph.

Chaith.8256:

Firearms Adept: New Pistol Trait, Condition Focus.

• Potent Coagulants: Reduced recharge on Pistol skills by 20%. Foes entering Glue attacks are inflicted with Slow (4s). Foes may only be affected once. This trait will strengthen Pistol offhand’s Glue Shot utility, as well as promote synergy between Glue Bomb, Glue Trail, and Condition builds, especially in larger fights.

I don’t know about this one. Slow being anti-Quickness is extremely powerful because it also increases cast times. I would rather Immobilise durations be increased for Glue attacks. 1 second is not great; especially now that 30% Condition duration is lost.

Chaith.8256:

Firearms Adept: Crit Chance <600.

• This trait is relatively forgettable. This would be much better served as a Flamethrower trait, which has extremely little backing so far. Fireforged Trigger: Gain might on a critical hit with Flamethrower for 2 seconds. Reduced recharge on Flamethrower skills by 20%. This would further create synergy between Flamethrower and Might stacking builds.

This implementation I have no quibble with. To make it a little more broad base though, I would extend Might on Crit to Pistol and Rifle autoattacks. You need the range to keep the Might stacked when enemies are kiting; otherwise the build lacks pressure against builds with a lot of movement skills.

Chaith.8256:

Inventions Master: TBD.

• Cloaking Device: You become invisible when immobilized. 25s ICD. Deliver a Static Shock to nearby foes when exiting stealth, stunning them and dealing damage. 180 Radius. Similar to the A.E.D Toolbelt ability. This would provide a necessary stand-alone, selfish, defensive trait, that has less build requirements to function.

I do like this one; but would rather it be Adept instead of Master. If it were kept master, then instead make the trigger On-Reveal so it can combo with Smoke Bomb and Elixir S.

Chaith.8256:

Alchemy Minor: TBD.

• Fortified Catalyst: Take 1% less damage for every boon present. Duration of boons you apply increased by 15%. Reclaim some Boon Duration that was severed from the traitline previously.

This is pretty good, actually. A defensive form of Energy Conversion Matrix.

Chaith.8256:

Alchemy Adept: Elixir Gun Trait, TBD.

• Powerful Disinfectants: Reduced recharge on Elixir Gun skills by 20%. Removing a condition with Elixir Gun will grant one second of protection and restore 15 Endurance to nearby allies. (240 Radius). Elixir Gun functions extremely well in solo encounters, but is often too vulnerable to properly use the support abilities as intended.

I’d just make the trait modify the Elixir Gun’s skills instead:

• Fumigate now removes 1 boon every second pulse (3 removed total out of 5). This gives security to FT-EG against Retaliation.
• Elixir F now also restores 10-20 endurance to allies per bounce, and removes 20 endurance on foes.

Tools
Tools just looks like as it was before. And that’s a bad thing, because a lot of the good stuff was taken out for no reason; primarily Enduring Damage for Zerker builds. Again, I don’t understand while Rifle Zerker Burst is so bad that it has to be nerfed.

• Static Discharge and Power Wrench are in the same Tier is horrible, because Power Wrench will be picked 100% of the time over SD unless building for 1 shots.
• Speedy Kits/Kit Refinement is the new star though. I will pick that 100% of the time. Even if it’s bad. It’s more for the Swiftness, but a free spell every 20 seconds isn’t horrible; especially now that you can time it.
• CF409 as the GM of Tools is a weird one. I guess it does work to keep the old HGH build down, but HGH was already nerfed significantly so I don’t see the point in breaking it into 2 lines to nerf it further.
• For the Master undetermined trait, there really needs to be some kind of boost for Rifle Burst. Perhaps a flat 2 second cooldown reduction for Toolbelts on each Critical Hit. This makes Static Discharge less bursty but more sustainable damage.
• Putting Speedy Kits in with Adrenal Implant means Firearms/Alchemy/Tools now that Grenadier has 3 nades baseline.
• The Gadget Trait in GM needs to do several things:
  • It must include the CDR of Speedy Gadgets
  • Gadgeteer Boons are optional, but quite nice. Utility effects like a bouncing Launched PBR or a Throw Mine that works like the Mesmer’s Into the Void would be nice.
  • The third effect should either be active condition clear or sustain; two things that Gadget builds are in deficit of.

Overall Tools was nerfed in terms of damage output and Static Discharge in particular is now unlikely to be picked. The loss of damage boosts from Firearms and Tools hurts Rifle Burst the most when it was already quite weak.

Right now it’s looking like Explosives/Inventions/Tools is the way to go for general direct damage bruiser; or Firearms/Alchemy/Tools for “old” Celestial Engi or HGH.

Engineer is now significantly less evasive; which is offset by higher sustain in Inventions. It’s an interesting tradeoff, for sure. One thing that is missing is a 25% increased movement speed trait unless ROBO LEGS has that somehow as well; I think there’s room for that to supersede Speedy Kits in Tools Master; or replace Always Prepared. I never liked Always Prepared anyway. Barring that, Traveller’s Runes.

Firearms
Firearms is still a little janky to me. Rifled Barrels and Coated Bullets being baseline is great; but now, the line is much more about Condi Damage. I don’t like this, because it really punishes Zerker Rifle Burst Engi when it was already the weakest spec.

• Keeping the Minors the same is horrible RNG design carried over. It’s lazy but it’s there.
• Merging Infused Precision/Precise Sights is okay and has synergy with Explosives; but the benefits are minor at best. I don’t see it overtaking Speedy Kits; but it could see use in die Flammenwerfer build in conjunction with ROBO LEGS.
• ROBO LEGS supersedes Power Shoes? In that case it’s a powerful mobility boost to FT; especially with the Juggernaut pulsing Stability change.
• Taking away Sitting Duck whilst keeping Modified Ammunition a Grandmaster is horrible. Taking away 10% flat damage from Rifle Mod for Crit chance just crushes the Rifle Burst even further. I don’t see the justification for it. The 5 Vulnerability + 4-6% from Modified Ammunition in Sitting Duck/ModAmmo Burst builds being taken away pretty much removes Jump Shot/Blunderbuss executions. It’s probably going to be Celestial Rifle for days now.
• Juggernaut Pulsing Stability is long overdue. The Might is gone though. I think an appropriate buff would be to make Critical Hits rip boons to supersede Bunker Down and mitigate Retaliation.
• Condi damage as %Precision is one of those boring passives but I can see the need for it now that stats don’t come with traits.
• Incendiary Powder is known to be powerful and will be a strong condi spec pick. Celestial Rifle, Rabid condi will want to drop Explosives for this; then try to pick up Power from elsewhere now that Traits don’t give stats; or run Explosives/Firearms/Tools especially now that Adrenal Implant is Tools Master.

Inventions
Overall I like the remake of Inventions in theory. The Inventions Minors are fantastic for active condi remove and are a real competitor to transmute/CF409. The synergy with Blast Finisher on Heal is just gravy and erodes Backpack Regenerator.

• Here’s hoping there’s no ICD to Adept II so I can lay a Fire Bomb and spam Med Kit to get 25 Might for daaaays; whilst sustaining up with HEAL-SPLOSION. It’ll be glorious.
• Autodefense Bomb Dispenser is still bad. It’s even worse with Adept II and the Shield 20% CDR + AOE Prot.
• I’m hoping that the TBD in Inventions Master goes towards Gadget support. Perhaps inflict the “Slow” condition for 3 seconds on Gadget activation in 240 radius. Call it… WAAAARRRP ZOOOONE. In this way, Gadget builds get a “tanky” trait in Inventions with counterplay.
• Moving Experimental Turrets down to Master is a questionable decision; especially now that Fortified Turrets + Metal Plating is merged in GM. Turret camping just got buffed a metric butt ton. Yes, they can be crit and die to conditions now; but this buff is just insane. Camping should be discouraged.
• Bunker Down with the Med Kit buff is still questionable; especially now that it is in Inventions. Heck, with just Healing Turret and the buff to Fortified Turrets, one can simply drop and overcharge to block projectiles for 4 seconds. Adept II removes the immediate need to detonate HT; so there’s literally no downside. Ditto for Supply Crate. The mechanic is RNG and weak compared to what’s in the same tier; and should be discarded entirely.
  • I feel that since Engineer is getting Hammer in the expansion, Bunker Down should be replaced with a Hammer trait. For example, timing a Hammer autoattack to swing at the same time a projectile based autoattack would hit, reflects that autoattack. So you could bat people’s autos back at them.

Alchemy
Alchemy looks pretty much the same as before: outstanding Adepts and Majors, situational Grandmasters. Removing Energy Conversion Matrix is a minor but significant nerf to HGH and Celestial builds though.

• Forcing a choice between Prot Injection and Invig Speed is a false one. Invigorating Speed would be taken more; especially now that you can get Protection on Shield 4-5.
• For the undertermined Elixir Gun trait: A good one would be to make Fumigate (EG3) rip boons from foes; and to make Elixir F transfer a condition from allies to foes. Ultimate support.
• For Med Kit, make the Antidote and Stimulant AOE on pickup. Heck, make the F1 Bandage Self AOE. Maximum support.
• The third Grandmaster Alchemy Trait should make Elixirs generate more Fields; not just On-Throw. So Elixir H generates a Water Field, B a Chaos Field, U a Dark Field, S a Smoke Field, C a Light Field, R a Lightning Field. It would be a powerful counterpoint to HGH; and Elixir Builds lack Finishers; which leads to a Pistol/Shield support design with one damage kit.

I think it’s funny how nearly all the counter-condi power has moved to Inventions and Tools. It makes Alchemy a lot less dominating; though Transmute is still there.

Here’s my take.

Skill Changes/Visual Changes

For Engineer, I love the visual changes that were done to the Kits. Engineer has needed telegraphs for what Kit it is in for counterplay reasons for the longest time; and the backpacks really didn’t convey that unless you were behind the Engineer. An opportunity was missed for the Med Kit though. I would much prefer a compound syringe gun/bonesaw like the TF2 Medic’s Ubersaw or just a Medigun type thing. The syringe glove just doesn’t have the visual impact.

Med Kit

• I love the Healing Breeze change to Med Kit 1. The selfish 1-2-3 Bandages were great for solo, but Healing Turret was the apex choice for the longest time precisely because of its AOE healing and Condi cleanse.
• Medkit’s Skill 2 doesn’t really make a lot of sense considering the rest of the kit where you want to be close to allies to buff and heal them.
• The pylon is static and will be quickly left behind in mobile combat. To expound on the anchor icon chosen, why not a “grappling hook” that pulls you to an ally? Or just shadowsteps; because the leap code desync is really bad at 200+ ping.
• Antidote is still single target and longer overall cast time than just double tapping Healing Turret. I hope they buff either the conditions cleared, or the AOE.

Bomb Kit

• The changes to the traits are what will finally make this a viable damage kit over Grenade Kit. BK is okay for Conquest where the AOE covers the whole node, but on the offense and in open WvW it’s absolutely terrible.
• One of my greatest wishes for Bomb Kit is for the Bombs to be thrown forward slightly to increase the telegraph and make it better offensively outside of conquest. Dropped at the feet they quickly become obscured behind the Engineer which takes away counterplay.
• I sincerely hope that the differentiating telegraphs between bombs are improved.

Grenade Kit
I like how there’s now role differentiation between Grenade Kit and Mortar Kit.

• Grenade kit’s range will be nerfed to 900, baseline grenades thrown now 3, Grenadier now buffs velocity and radius.

• I think this change is a good one. Grenade Kit has dominated Engineer play for the longest time. I will agree with Deniara Devious that it does change the playing field for WvW Engineers; but I expect that Mortar will fill the gap. Not completely, but enough.

Mortar Kit
Visually, I would rather that the Mortar became a rocket launcher if it were to become mobile; or keep the mortar but remodeled to be more like modern infantry hand mortars . Mortar’s range now has a role.

• Skill wise now that the Barrage/GDI Ion Cannon is on F5, make the 5 skill Barrage the Blast finisher.
• Replace the Caltrops mortar on skill 2 with the Poison field and you’re golden. Bleed is already on Grenade 2 anyway; and Chill supersedes Cripple’s power.

Turret Changes
Making Turrets able to be crit and take damage from conditions is long overdue. Accelerant Packed Turrets being baseline encourages active play as well. Unfortunately Turrets need more work to become active moreso than they are already.

• The most fundamental change I feel is to remove the Turret autoattack and reduce the cooldown of the Overcharge. This gives players full control over who and when the Turrets attack. Powerful overcharges like the Thumper Turret knockback can be moved to the Toolbelt. Same for the Heat Seeking rocket.
• The second most important change is to make Turrets able to be thrown as baseline (remove Deployable Turrets) just as Wells and Consecrations.
• Tweaks to cooldown and health to make them truly disposable but quick to redeploy can further develop an active playstyle; yet still immobile.

Trait Changes
Explosives

• Explosives line making Forceful explosives baseline was absolutely needed; and the synergy with Evasive Powder Keg is appreciated with the Minors. Removal of Reserve Mines is awesome.
• The Dodge bomb becoming a Blast Finisher in GM is great. The synergy with the Inventions line could well replace Backpack Regenerator for sustain and erode Alchemy.
• I don’t like the Explosive Rocket Belt Thingy™. It’s absolutely skill-less.
  • It might be better as an execution trait. Attacks against a target at less than 50% HP build an Esports rocket charge; up to 5 charges. ICD 1 second to prevent Grenades from being OP. Triggering the F5 Elite Toolbelt skill fires 1 Esports Rocket per charge. Now you have a dodgeable execute for Power builds.

Overall Explosives is more focused. Moving Incendiary Powder out of Explosives is a bold move, but necessary. I still think it might be the best line for Engineer though. Everything in there is just so synergistic. Explosives/Inventions/X will be a powerful direct damage bruiser.

So many posts in and people haven’t even deigned to link the build? For shame.

Elementalist has always treaded a knife edge between dominant (pre Dhuumfire) and utterly trashed (post Water Magic nerfs). It takes very little to make Ele very good or very bad, because what is strong is concentrated into so few elements.

I think that beyond just the Celestial Amulet and Strength/Hoelbrak Rune and double sigil changes people do need to realise that Elementalist was brought up in a few ways as well:

• ICD removed from Cleansing Water – one of the most powerful cleanse traits in game; adding 6 from Elemental Attunement per minute and another 1 from Soothing Disruption per Cantrip – up to 9 per minute in 1 single trait.
• Reversion of the Signet of Restoration nerfs once the double proccing was bugfixed
• Evade Frames on Burning Speed and Blast Finisher to Frozen Burst

At the same time, Lightning Whip stow was popularised by several Ele streamers and became part of the standard D/D Ele repertoire. Thus, a build that was otherwise entirely nerfed out of the meta; resurfaced stronger than ever before. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that as a result, the WTS teams were all running 1 or even more than 1 Cele D/D Ele.

I think that the ongoing thread argument as to whether Phantaram’s proposals – nerfing Drake’s Breath Burning ticks from 3 to 2 and Lightning Whip Stow have merit are useful, but miss the point. What’s clear is that Elementalist’s Might floor is pretty out of control at the moment.

• 75% Might Duration gives 35 seconds of 3 stacks of Might from Blasts (20×1.75)
• 9 Might from Battle Sigil
• Extra Blast Finisher to Frozen Burst contributes another 6 Might that did not otherwise exist in the previous D/D ele build.
• Another 2-3 Might from Elemental Attunement depending on ICDs

I believe and I feel the need to echo Phantaram’s sentiments in this thread that shaving Elementalist’s offense through Might and possibly weapon skill changes is the way to go rather than putting offense back into the ground. If Ele wants to bunker, it should be able to. It should not be able to also deal tons of damage with the help of Might.

Phantaram.1265:

I personally like doing some of the shaves before the might and celestial suggestions and seeing where that lands the DD ele from there, possibly including some nerf to might. It’s most important that we keep the feedback in this thread constructive though so the devs have something to work off of. Thanks friends!

Personally, I would rather see Battle Sigil and Might Runes nerfed first:

• Battle Sigil’s Might duration nerfed from 20 seconds to 15 seconds. This cuts out the third proc at 75% Might duration.
• Hoelbrak and Strength Rune Might duration nerfed from 45% total to 30% total. This cuts out 1 Might from Elemental Attunement which doesn’t sound like much but it’s there.

After that, Frozen Burst’s Blast Finisher should either be reverted; or its cooldown increased to 20 seconds (nerfs other D/D builds)

Beyond this though there needs to be build variety. 0 0 2 6 6 is favoured not just because it’s powerful, but because building offensively on the Elementalist has less return than going full bunker. This needs to change; either by adding defense to Fire and Air; or by diversifying Condi cleanse out of Cantrips/Water Magic/Evasive Arcana into other utilities and traits. Given the failure of players playing competitive tPVP in picking up Blinding Ashes; I’m in favour of the latter; but I think I’ll start a new thread for that.

Internal imbalance and apex choices have always been part of GW2’s PVP and even PVE. Perhaps even WvW, but the large skill gradient there and stupidly overpowered Food boosts allows for somewhat greater variety than what’s meta.

Carighan.6758:

Honestly, given the extreme size of the customization-tree of GW2 – and, coming with that, the excessive amounts of balance-complexity – I’d be for a much more radical approach to rebalancing Runes and Sigils both.

You know how in sPvP, Rune-set is just a single slot you always equip an entire set on? Yeah, like that.

• One slot for your sigil. Your one. It’s just “active”, it’s not part of the weapon. “Your critical hits cause lightning to strike your targets.”, “When swapping weapons (automatically changed into kits/stances as appropriate), you gain Might”, etc.
• One slot for your rune. I’d also remove the stats from these (sec on that), and just make it a single effect. But, that’d also be the differentiation: Sigil is sort-of an offense bonus, and always centered on your weapons or your attacks or hitting stuff. Runes are a defense bonus, and always centred on your armour, being hit or defending. “Become mist when hit below 20% health” or “Attacks against you sometimes cause you to drop a bomb at your feet”.

Why that gross simplification? Because we already have lots of traits, trait slots, abilities, gear choices. There’s so many combinations that it’s a dreadful prospect to even balance a tiny tiny fraction of them. I’d rather remove some of the less character-bound options to make it easier to sort balance for the remaining options.

That’s definitely one way to go about it. I think Anet definitely was right in “simplifying” the Amulet/Jewel/Rune system for PVP; because it eliminated several silly combos like 4 Monk/2Water or 2Strength/2Hoelbrak/2Fire. On the other hand, the same patch also introduced insane power creep by buffing Strength Rune, Balthazar, Krait, Hoelbrak, Pirate and Nightmare through the roof. I’ll also miss 5Scholar/1Divinity or Valks/Zerker Jewel X/dagger 30 Water Elementalist. Both damage and defense are now higher than ever before and the Sigil changes exacerbate that.

I just worry that doing the same thing to Sigils as what was done to Runes is going to lead to the same thing – that Anet somehow feels the “need” to compensate for a limited Sigil loadout by making them insane. For example:

Carighan.6758:

“Your critical hits cause lightning to strike your targets.”

This is exactly what I’d expect Anet to do if Sigils were to be limited to just 1 per player. 1.1 Power Coefficient Lightning Strikes on a build like the meta Cele Ele 0 0 2 6 6 full defense build would be just insane; because it essentially adds 3 points in Air Magic for no trait point cost.

I think that it’s fair to say that the meta builds these days are at least mostly defined by their Sigils and Runes.
IP on Engi doesn’t really hurt until you put in Balthazar Rune.
Terrormancer thrives on Nightmare Rune.
D/D Ele running Strength or Hoelbrak have something like 15-20% higher effective Power than runes without Might Duration. (CMC has the exact calculation; I forget the exact percentiles)
Mesmer and Thief derive their auto pressure from – you guessed it – Air and Fire Sigil.
Warrior can hit 2-3k weapon swaps with Hydromancy Sigil; and guarantee an Earthshaker combo triple crit with Intelligence Sigil.
Condi Ranger’s Entangle is scary; but even scarier with Krait Runes.
Guardian’s down state control – already the highest in game – becomes ludicrous with Mercy Runes.

The meta builds have largely remained the same post April 14; but their power level has never been higher. The only new builds to emerge/re-emerge were Celestial Rifle Engi (driven by Backpack/Chaith); Cleansing Water 0 0 2 6 6 D/D Cele Ele (let’s be real, as SOON as the ICD for CW was removed Anet should have known that this would make the rounds again).

An argument can be made for Celestial Shoutwar (Driven by Tarcis), Power Ranger (driven by Eurantien) and Mesmer re-entry (thanks to Thief nerfs, and Helseth sticking with it) but builds like Hambow, Terrormancer, Condi Engi, D/P or S/D Thief and Condi Ranger are all still here; mostly recognisable; and a lot stronger than ever before.

That Battle, Energy, Fire, Air, Doom, Intelligence, Hydromancy and Geomancy are so favoured over others for the aforementioned builds should speak volumes as to the internal imbalance in GW2. These same sigils were favoured before April 15; they’re still favoured now.

Anet needs to seriously consider the possibility that the other sigils in the lineup are either not up to par; or the meta ones are too powerful and require nerfing. Though the balance between professions has never been better; what’s meta has changed little; because the effects of Runes and Sigils is so dominant in augmenting what’s already powerful.

Exedore.6320:

Doing a “surgical change” to sigils or sigil combinations won’t work. If you change Sigil of Fire, people will replace it with something else like Sigil of Blood. If you want to add a new sigil in the future, then you’re really restricted as to what you can do.

That’s the point of the change though. If people move on to another sigil then that would mean success.

Right now the on-crit Sigils are pretty poorly defined in terms of what role they play. Air and Fire have significant overlap in role – they both deal damage on crit, at full power, to the target. 1v1, there is no difference in role whatsoever.

So there’s a lack of definition between Air and Fire. There’s no downside to using one or the other in a certain situation – they’re good in both. As for Sigil of Blood; its toughness ignoring damage and minor sustain gives it a role against tanky targets; yet because of the way it is designed (flat damage with desultory scaling) it does not affect squishier targets any more than tanky targets.

Exedore.6320:

Here’s where power creep came into play when each sigil had its own cooldown:

• On-crit sigils can activate at the same time for high burst.
• On-swap sigils are balanced around “normal” weapon swap mechanics and you aren’t necessarily going to swap weapons on cooldown. So for elementalist and engineer, which swap constantly, that’s no longer a factor.
• Warriors with Fast Hands can have 4 on-swap sigils activated within 10 seconds. That’s like having 4 sigils in one weapon set – basically two air and two fire sigils at once.

Having all sigils of the same activation mechanic share a cooldown is the best way to address all of those issues. And as long “shares a cooldown with other <on-swap, on-critical, on-hit> sigils” is in the text, it’s not overly confusing.

Sigil of Battle still needs a duration reduction, even with these changes.

The only other alternative I see is to significantly nerf the effects of all sigils so that they have less overall impact on gameplay.

Honestly the power of Sigils could stand to be reduced. Double swap sigils on Warrior with Fast Hands was said by many (including me) to be potentially OP. Yet it can be seen in the ESL weeklies and the WTS that this is not as dominating a force as previously thought – though this is confounded by recent nerfs to Warrior Adrenaline mechanics.

Having said that, beyond just Battle, Energy, Fire, Air and/or Doom (depending on your profession perspective) there are many other sigils like Hydromancy, Geomancy that could stand to be toned down. Changing the mechanic might address some combinations but it still leaves 2k Hydro crits against squishies or Geomancy inflicting 100% Bleed uptime and so on intact. Reducing the overall power of Sigils should be something that is done before mechanics are overhauled; because it may be that a shave is all they need.

Courtyard is extremely problematic at the moment. It suffers from poor map design and poor design for respawns.

At the moment, individual respawns for Conquest are fine. The point capture mechanic means that having staggered respawns isn’t as problematic.

Individual spawns are not acceptable for TDM maps like Courtyard. It puts an extreme snowball mechanic into an already problematic map and makes blowouts an almost absolute certainty. Consider the first major engagement, 5v5. A person goes down on either team and is stomped, snowballs the entire fight. People die at different points in time to then spawn in different intervals.

Newer players will not have the patience to sit around in spawn and just get spawncamped. Match ends with some crazy discrepancy like 500-100 or so.

The solution is to add wave respawning, but only to the Courtyard map. In this way people at least spawn together and have a fair chance coming out of the gate.

I could go on about the rest of the map’s problems, like the side paths being used for teamfights because it corrals players into AOE spam; or the horrendous camera problems towards the middle depression of the map; but if anything is to be done about Courtyard it is to add wave respawning.

BurrTheKing.8571:

It would be more of a revisal rather than a reversal. The problem before was that the CDs of swap and crit/hit sigils were overlapping. This would still allow more combos than the old system, but you won’t be able to stack the effects to stack some of the most powerful effects at the same time.

Though this new system does address some of the issues, it doesn’t really get to the core of the problem which is reduced opportunity costs for both damage and defense. One could run something like Intelligence/Air under this new system where it would previously be Intelligence/Hydromancy (Warrior); and again one runs into the issue of gaining passive burst output where none existed previously. I strongly believe that some of the Sigils; like Battle/Energy/Hydromancy and Air/Fire/Blood contribute a lot to the furthering of the bunker/burst dichotomy – causing extremes of offense and defense that add to power creep. But only these specific subsets of Sigils.

Attacking specific Sigil combinations rather than completely revising the Sigil mechanic would be a little more surgical. Anet made their bed by reducing opportunity costs for Sigils; now it’s time for them to lay in it and address what’s risen to the top over everything else.

BurrTheKing.8571:

This change would also not require redesigning entire sigil effects. Of course they would need to allow players to strip off sigils that violate the new system for free.

I can’t really say I like the idea of Fire only hitting those around your target, it would make it useless for many engagements and thematically it just feels weird to have an effect that doesn’t hurt your target. I would be on board with any nerf to Sigil of Battle at this point, I’m fed up with might stacking meta and would much rather have 10% of my crit damage back.

Also sorry about the late reply, I’ve finally unlocked the Phantom Bow on BF4. Which was a total waste of time seeing how terrible it is.

With regards to Fire sigil only hitting those around the target I suppose the proc could be reworked to deal desultory damage to the target itself; but greater damage to those around it. The main issue is that of overlapping effect for Fire/Air. Both are on-crit procs that deal damage – one is single target, one is AOE, one has a shorter ICD.

I’m going out on a limb here and I am going to infer that the design intention of the Fire and Air Sigils was for sustained direct damage pressure. Crit procs bypass the Block/Aegis/Dodge mechanic. It was clear towards the end of 2013 and going into 2014 that direct damage builds lacked the sustained pressure that Condition builds could put out in the face of all those avoidance mechanics. Slapping Air and/or (emphasis key here) Fire on any Power build these days gives it pressure. It was certainly night and day for me running 100mines or standard SD with EG/TK/RT – now my autoattacks had legitimate threat over time where previously I would have to rely on Incendiary Powder. So the buffs to Sigils were legitimate and did increase build variety to some degree.

Where the change became toxic was stacking. Where running just Air Sigil gave me legit pressure, Air/Fire gave me burst on autoattack; with the bonus of cleave. Hitting for 3-4k on Crits should be the work of skills with cooldowns; not autoattacks. So I think there might be a good improvement in the overall reduction of passive burst if Fire was instead to become “the cleave Sigil” and Air was to become “the Zerker pressure Sigil” – coefficients adjusted accordingly.

It might even be good to make something like Sigil of Air on hit instead of on crit; thus opening up this pressure to lower crit-rate builds and further lowering the burst potential. Sigil of Fire with a toned down on-target damage and higher AOE damage would thus serve the role of cleave augmentation and punishing AI builds.

As for the other combinations mentioned: Battle/Doom or Battle/Energy; I mentioned before that simply removing the third proc would lower the Might floor. I don’t think that Doom or Energy in and of themselves are overtuned right now; they serve a specific role (Doom for countering regen builds; Energy for low Vigour classes). Energy Sigil’s opportunity costs may have been lessened now that you can double-proc; but I think that in the absence of the classes historically reliant upon them (Mesmer, Necro) becoming dominant gods (they aren’t); Energy can stay where it is at the moment. The combo feels strong because Battle is strong.

BurrTheKing; doesn’t this just mean a partial revert to pre-April 15 where Sigils sharing cooldowns necessitated that people take different types anyway? I hardly think that Anet would be willing to take 1 step forward, only to take another one back.

I think it might be better to instead to think about; and I mean really think about, what the design intent of each Sigil is, why stacking certain sigils is strong, and why other combos are overlooked.

With respect to Air/Fire stacking, there’s a simple change that infantrydiv suggested that I think is extremely clever:

infantrydiv.1620:

I think a good, practical start would be to make sigil of fire only hit stuff around your actual target (instead of the target itself), and increase the healing from blood, making it no longer do damage. With that change fire, air, and blood each have a unique purpose.

If those changes went through, then maybe they could change Air sigil to be similar to Doom, where it procs on first hit after weapon damage (thinking like 2.5-3k damage, once per swap). Although, I could see this being a problem with classes frontloading damage from stealth…aka mesmer/thief.

At a stroke this gives Air a proper focus – single target pressure; and Fire a different focus – AoE pressure. Obviously the coefficients would have to be adjusted but this change is probably one of the smartest ways to remove this apex choice.

With respect to Battle Sigil, I’m just going to quote myself from a few weeks ago:

MonMalthias.4763:

snip
An alternative implementation would be to simply make the Sigil proc either 3 Might for 12 or 15 seconds.

• At 15 seconds, 50% Might Duration is still needed to get 6 Might stacks. 75% Might Duration yields 26.25 seconds per proc, which locks out the third proc (and 9 stack breakpoint) at 27 seconds.
• At 12 seconds, again, 50% Might Duration is needed to get 6 Might stacks, but only if the weapon is swapped on cooldown. Has the potential to make the Sigil a lot less attractive to other classes, though.

Eliminating the third proc by a shave of 5 seconds is all that’s required. That’s 37 × 2 × 3 (222) bonus offensive stats eliminated from the Celestial Bruisers (D/D ele, Cele Engi) at a snap; or a 50% reduction in absolute contribution to the Might stacking Might floor that Battle adds.

With regards to Battle/Energy; I believe that Battle/Doom is currently in the lead due to the preponderance of D/D eles requiring high Poison uptime. I don’t see Energy being that much of an apex choice given the circumstances; but I guess we’re only 2-3 shaves to D/D ele away from Doom being less necessary.

Please don’t compare traits across classes in a vacuum; because it borders on straw-man. The two classes simply don’t equate very well in other respects.

Warrior requires Dogged March in Adept because of its melee range focus requiring easy access to snare mitigation. Strangely enough for a Melee class; it lacks focused target cleanses against Immobilise/Cripple/Chill barring Mobile Strikes; which is itself in a place that has a lot of opportunity cost (Destruction of the Empowered for example). So its need for snare mitigation is arguably higher; because Warrior does its best damage in melee; and its profession mechanic for melee sets can be kited.

For Engineer, Leg Mods is in Tools Master Major because snare mitigation is more of a luxury. Permaswiftness access; whilst not being proper mitigation is actually moderately good against slows. (Swiftness is 33% (25% in combat), Cripple -50%, Chill -66%)

Engineer also has greater access to targeted snare cleanses through Rocket Boots and Overcharged Shot; though Pistol/X is lacking.

Finally, it should be noted that Leg Mods is no longer considered the “apex” choice; with Missile Deflection taking over for Axe/Sword Longbow builds, and Sure Footed being a good pick for any build running triple Stance (which is a lot of builds).

On the other hand, Leg Mods with Hoelbrak Runes finds its way into one of the meta Celestial Engineer builds (toss up against Power Wrench) for its Chill mitigation. That Engineers would take Leg Mods despite it being “inferior” to Dogged March means that it isn’t as bad as previously thought.

Whilst Ice Spike could in principle become a Blast Finisher; the cooldown would have to be addressed should it become part of the Staff’s toolkit. At 4 seconds, the potential for camping Water, dropping Ice Spike, then blasting Geyser, Frozen Field and Healing Rain each in turn is pretty high. CD would have to be upped to 10 or more seconds in that case, which would be a pretty fundamental change to how Staff plays with Ice Spike +/- Frozen Field as area denial.

I think it might be better to instead make Flame Burst (Staff Fire 3) a Blast Finisher and GTAoE. Requiring a cross-attunement combo precludes the possibility of camping Water; in addition, simply blasting Lava Font then precludes its offensive use; so there’s some cerebral play required here rather than dropping fields and Blasts.

The counterargument to that would be that it would make Fire Attunement pretty clunky; with Flame Burst working at cross-purposes regarding self-comboing. I still think it might be a more elegant and less potentially unbalancing choice to make Flame Burst a Blast.

In summary; consider Flame Burst instead. I’m not against Ice Spike Blasting, but its cooldown would have to be upped to 10 or more seconds, which is a big loss to Water’s counterpressure for some defensive utility.

In my opinion, the way forward for Gadgets is not a megabuff to Gadgeteer but perhaps in the form of revamping some traits in Inventions instead. Just as Meditation Guardian can string together a build stacking those utilities; so too should Gadget Engineer with 2+ Gadgets be able to derive some utility – if not from the gadgets themselves; then from Trait support. This has the dual purpose of opening up new ways to build Engineer without putting yet another build in the works that relies upon Alchemy for Vigour/Sustain; thus driving down build variety and increasing balance complexity.

I think that it’s safe to say that Engineer lacks two things right now – steady but shallow Condi Cleanse; and Sustain outside of Boons/Back Pack Regen – although Bomb Heal may or may not qualify as Sustain depending on whether you WvW.

We can give the Gadget build these two things – and thus builds slotting 1-2 Gadgets some measure of these things – by introducing 2 traits and reworking another 2:

Moving Low Health Response System up from Adept Minor (Inventions 1) to Adept Major (Inventions 2) and reworking the effect thus:

• Activating a Gadget makes your next attack heal you. The amount healed increases with missing health.
  • 66% + HP: 250+0.1 Healing Power scaling
  • 33% – 66%: 500+0.2 Healing Power scaling
  • 0% – 33%: 750+0.2 Healing Power scaling
• Even assuming something ultra janky like PBR/Rocket Boots/Throw Mine with Gadgeteer for minimised cooldowns, this would result in average 3.6 activations per Gadget per minute which would result in ~10.8 procs. Assuming maximum healing output at ~738 Healing Power from Celestial Amulet and 30 in Inventions and the 33% HP proc each and every single time, this results in 9694.08HP per minute, or 161 Healing per Second – 6HPS above that of Back Pack Regen; but using cooldowns; which has a higher opportunity cost. So now Gadgets have a Sustain option, instead of Zero.

This move of LHRS would be accompanied with swapping Energised Armour down to Adept Minor; which would be a major boon to Power builds wanting to run Inventions, but lacking a defensive choice in Adept.

The second major rework would probably necessitate the removal of either Metal Plating or Autotool Installation; which would be a nerf to Turret Bunker. Probably Autotool Installation; as the trait is pretty hard to tune without making it silly in 1v1s but not insignificant in XvXs.

To replace it would be the following new trait in Master Major (Inventions 4)
Antitoxin Gadget Harness

• Activating a Gadget cleanses 1 condition. If more than 2 Toolbelt Skills are on Cooldown, instead cleanse 2 Conditions.

This would be the breakthrough that Power Engineer needs to approach Tourney Viability – steady, shallow cleanse. Again, using the ultra-janky Throw Mine, PBR, Rocket Boots example, this gives an average 2.9 activations per minute per Gadget without any CDR effects for an potential 17 cleanses per minute – which sounds strong, until you see the conditional of requiring that 2+ Toolbelt skills be on CD. On average one can expect to see maybe 9 per minute, rising to the peak as cooldowns are exchanged. Indubitably strong, but conditionally so; and obviously no-one in their right mind would run PBR/RB/Mine in their current state.

I think that beyond this – and the current discussion reflects my sentiment – is the lack of really good Stunbreaks for Gadget Engineer.

I think a really interesting change would be instead to look at the Toolbelt skill for AED, Static Shock . In its current state, SS is only good for proccing Static Discharge. It’s an otherwise unremarkable Control that barely has enough Stun Frames beyond its aftercast to chain into anything useful.

How about if Static Shock instead transferred a Control effect? This would effectively make SS a pseudo-stunbreak – if you could hit with it. So it would look like thus:
Static Shock

• 0.25 cast (Control effect Transfer (Stun, Daze, Fear, Launch, Push, Pull, Knockdown, Sink)
• Transfer 1 Control effect with its remaining duration to target foe.
• 400 range
• Cooldown 30 seconds
• Power Coefficient 1.00 (770 damage at 2000 Power against 2600 Armour target and 1000 weapon strength weapon)

The effect could be made into a projectile for counterplay reasons (dodge/block/Aegis etc.) to justify its potential fight turning effects at a potentially low cooldown (23 seconds at 30 Tools).

Thus AED becomes the ultimate master baiter – giving massive heals and full cleanses when opponents “kill” you; and turning their own CC against them. It also at a stroke solves Engineer’s problems with being CC chained into oblivion – without resorting to the hard counter that is Stability uptime.

Chaith.8256:

I’d say if a patch came out that:

1.) Reduced Battle Sigil from 3 stacks of might, to 2. (Edit: In PvP)

2.) Reduced Drake’s Breath from 3 seconds burning per tick, to 2 seconds.

3.) Altered Lightning Whip so it can’t be made into attacking faster than intended.

4.) Reduced the damage of Shrapnel and Freeze Grenades by 15% in PvP.

5.) Undo the recent change of making Frozen Burst (D/D Water 3) into a blast finisher.

We’d pretty much see all of the Celestial builds brought in line without neutering the possibility for Celestial stats on any of the other 6 professions.

Pretty much this.

Possibly the smartest change is the shave of 1 stack of Might from Battle Sigil. An alternative implementation would be to simply make the Sigil proc either 3 Might for 12 or 15 seconds.

• At 15 seconds, 50% Might Duration is still needed to get 6 Might stacks. 75% Might Duration yields 26.25 seconds per proc, which locks out the third proc (and 9 stack breakpoint) at 27 seconds.
• At 12 seconds, again, 50% Might Duration is needed to get 6 Might stacks, but only if the weapon is swapped on cooldown. Has the potential to make the Sigil a lot less attractive to other classes, though.

As for Engineer specific nerfs to Grenades, I don’t think it’s so much of an issue of Grenades being too strong; but that it does everything you need at a much wider set of ranges than other weapon kits. What’s needed here is a clear definition of the role GK is to play, which in my opinion should be Mid-Long range. (500-1400).

There’s a few methods, some more controversial than others:
1: Removing the impact detonation upon striking a Foe.

• This makes GK a lot less favourable in Melee range, which is where GK has traditionally been strong bordering on OP – from 100nades, to triple-stack Poison Grenade, to the HGH days where even the autoattacks were brutal at 1.33 total Power Coefficient.

2: Normalising Flight time for short range as for long range.

• Basically, throwing Nades in melee gives opponents as much time to dodge as they would if Nades were sailing their way at 500+ range. This change emphasises the long range component of Nades whilst again, making them less favourable in melee.

3: Make GK throw a single powerful Grenade; then rework Grenadier to add a Cluster Bomb functionality like Thief SB 2

• This is an extremely deep rework but it addresses a lot of issues about GK – the fact that Grenadier multiplies Crit-proc and on-hit proc chances by 50% compared to baseline; that it makes Steel Packed Powder extremely strong, but weak for Bomb Kit; and that it makes running Grenadier mandatory when using Grenade Kit.
• This enables un-traited Grenades to be workable again. The Cluster Bomb functionality would entail chaining the skill into “Scatter Submunitions” that makes 3 smaller; weaker; shorter condition duration Grenade detonations. Essentially, Cluster Grenadier becomes the “crit-seeker” function for Nades at the cost of random scatter, less damage, and shorter Condition application
• The downside is that it makes Smartcast mandatory for fear of carpal tunnel; but again, untraited Grenades without the crit-seeking component can be run. This is designing for differentiation over augmentation and thus makes the trait’s effects easier to balance.

Grenade Kit’s problematic aspects have never been about its range. Certainly, spamming nades on point from 1500 units sounds like it’s extremely powerful, but it also neglects the fact that the further Grenades are from their origin, the more telegraphed and more obvious their landing point. There’s even helpful little red circles that change in glow intensity as their detonation nears; although visual tracking of the projectiles is more than sufficient.

Where GK has been a problem has always in each and every single case warranting rebalance – in short range (<500 units) to melee range (~130 units)

In 2012, we saw the emergence of 100nades, which was double-proc Grenade Barrage from Kit Refinement and Toolbelt skill – in sub-melee range (<100 units) – to instantly 100-0 an opponent. Chaith and Natty Angus Wrench can attest to this. Also the time of the decline of Power Engineer; which was already on its way out due to Teldo’s Condi Node Fighter dominating.

In 2013, The GK autoattack was nerfed by 33% in Power coefficient – again, because it was clearly outcompeting Bomb Kit and Rifle at a wider set of ranges and was inherently safer.

Late 2013 again, we see Poison Grenade being nerfed in seconds of Poison applied per pulse – again, because “shotgunning” Poison Grenade at melee range allowed one to triple-stack the fields, thus building 60+ seconds of Poison on targets within seconds.

Grenade Kit is still meta for Engineer even now after these nerfs, because no other kit encompasses the following:

• Snap counter-pressure from melee range all the way out to mid-long range.
• Extreme condition diversity
• High Power coefficients allowing for efficient Hybrid build options
• High Condition duration that forces cleanses, if not dodges

I think it’s very shallow and almost 2012 to think of Grenade Kit being strong on Engineer because its long range is somehow toxic; when it’s clearly powerful to the point of OP in melee – short range and; if you watch Engineer streamers play, it’s how GK is used most of the time.

Nuking a point from 1200-1500 hearkens back to the days of HGH. The game, and the players have changed. The argument that it is somehow “immersion breaking” to have an Engineer’s throwing arm eclipse that of a firearm in range was also wheeled out…in 2012.

Perhaps Kitt, a Warrior main, would like a return to those days immediately post Quickness nerf. I get the feeling that it wouldn’t be “immersion” that brings him down.

There’s not much to add to the thread since others before me have already said all that’s needed to be said.

With regards to the original post, I would like to see some reasoning behind it. Show me the method behind the madness.

Healing Turret is the meta heal for a lot of builds because it is:

• Half cast, which is extremely difficult to interrupt. Consider 3/4 for AED; which is a lot higher risk; and 1 second for Med Kit F1, which is pretty high risk but also the highest theoretical HPS when traited for that reason.
• The important component, Cleansing Burst, is off GCD, which makes comboing easy due to not having to deal with aftercasts
• It is the only heal with a reliable cleanse. I can’t tell you how important cleanse is to Engineers. For many builds, HT and Transmute is the extent of cleanse; which is 3 per 15 seconds or 1 per 5. That’s not a lot, considering that other classes can hit both a lot higher frequency and a lot higher depth of cleanse.
• Water Field Leap and Blast. 1k guaranteed, more if running Celestial or some Inventions traits.
• Regeneration adds another 900.
• Even the toolbelt is useful.

Where it lacks is in on-heal triggers (15 seconds is hard to align with ICDs) and in HGH builds. But that is not a healing turret problem; it’s a buildcrafting balance decision.

The only nerf that is justifiable for Healing Turret is a slight nerf to cast time from 1/2 cast to 3/4 cast for interruptability reasons. Even so, I would argue that at this time, it is not Healing Turret that is problematic; rather, it is Sigils and Runes that make Engineer a lot stronger than it actually should be.

Chaith.8256:

MonMalthias.4763:

snip of own post

snip
I would also love it if there were ways to convert Firearms into main DPS sources, too.

I’m tired of everything playing second fiddle to grenades, in PvP. Unfortunately, no other setup has enough pressure to follow through, no matter how offensively you build.

Meh, I’ve been running 100mines and whilst it’s a hotjoin/soloque stomp build it definitely has the pressure to follow through. And by pressure I mean 100-0.

In my opinion Throw Mine and Mine Field’s power coefficients might have been better served on Bomb Kit. Throw Mine in particular is closer to what I envision some of BK’s skills to be. Not in terms of being a GTAoE; but in terms of its ability to still pressure an area with damage without being toxic because you can’t spam with it and spread 5 Confusion, 8 seconds of Burning and Cripple/Immobilise/Blind. It’s exactly the kind of zone control that Engineer was billed to be good at.

Having a short-range “skillshot” for Bomb Kit skills would give the kit a lot better counterplay. Indeed, if this was the case in the first place then the senseless 60 unit radius buff wouldn’t have been necessary back in 2013. As it is now, BK is entirely mindless in the context of Conquest; useless in high mobility contexts like WvW; and appreciated for its autoattack in PvE (thus mindless).

As for Firearms into main damage sources, Air/Fire Sigil and a Zerker build already does that for you. Not a satisfying answer, I know, because Air/Fire is overtuned, but it’s there. You don’t even need Incendiary Powder in that case; because Sigil procs give you that sustained damage from autoattacks that would otherwise be too dependent on crits to deal appreciable pressure.

The Firearms tree just needs to move away from Crit procs and more into reliable damage.

• Sharpshooter should simply be, _Critical Hits on foes within 600 range inflict 3 seconds of Bleeding. Thus Engineer gets a nice boost to its mid-range. May require renaming to something like Frangible Ammunition.
  • Target the Maimed should move from GM Minor to Master Minor. Either that, or buff it to 10% like Warrior’s Attack of Opportunity. Alternatively, make Master Minor trait grant 10% bonus Critical chance against Bleeding Targets. Thus, Synergy. 10% Crit chance against targets below 50% HP is pretty weak for an Execution trait; whereas traits like Bolt to the Heart and the eponymous Executioner are obviously appreciated.
  • Making Target the Maimed GM Minor to Master Minor allows Modified Ammunition to move from GM to GM Minor; thus mirroring Necromancer’s Target the Weak. GM Traits shouldn’t be passive DPS boosts.

A better Modified Ammunition would be to make it a real trait that boosts Mainhand skills; like adding a skill chain to the 2 skill on Net Shot that acts as a secondary gap closer; and on the Pistol, chaining the Volley into a skill like Choking Gas. Adding skill chains on skills 2-3 increases the utility of the weapons just as it has done for offhand Shield for Engineer; something that is sorely needed on a class that can potentially lack a weapon swap. Not running kits locks the class out of Swap Sigils, animation cancels and 5 skills. That’s a lot of opportunity cost; and drives down build variety. Triple or Quad Gadget builds are extremely difficult to pull off because of this very reason.

If you’d played with Flamethrower, then you would know that the FT applies Burning only for 1 second on the last tick.

Interrupts, dodges, even cancelling the channel will net you zero burning. Due to the FT’s propensity to miss a lot on uneven terrain or even the most paltry of obstacles causing “Obstructed!”, the Burning is lost more often than not.

FT’s strength lies within the 2,3 and 5 skill. The FT4 Napalm effect requires that enemies stand within the effect to burn as it pulses only 1 second of Burning per pulse. Great for counterplay, but terrible for the rest of the kit without CC to keep enemies within the Field.

With regards to the build, Celestial accessories are not as efficient as the armour or weapons. You’d be better off getting more specialised trinkets and making up for whatever is lacking with food.

Finally, PvE demands practically zero condition cleanse. Healing Turret picked up on cooldown is more than enough. Elixir C is overkill; especially given a standard HGH build that would run CF409 over Deadly Mixture. You can run Deadly Mixture; but I feel that Elixir R with its immobilise cleanse and lower cooldown (and pulsing Condition removal) more than sufficient.

Secondly, Sigil of Battle and Juggernaut don’t really synergise with each other. Swapping in and out of kits to proc it also resets the timer on your Juggernaut Might tick. It may be better to run Sigil of Strength instead; especially given that you have FT1 for crit-seeking. 75% Might Duration nets you 17.5 second Might Stacks and it is easy to stack to 15+ from the Sigil alone – something that Battle cannot reach in the current state of the game.

With HGH and Noble Runes giving you a Might floor of 2 stacks as long as you are using your heal once per ~37 seconds (plus 3 for 17.5 seconds = 5 spike, 3.67 average); then adding the 15+ stacks from Strength sigil, you should be averaging 18 stacks of Might before Juggernaut in combat.

Factoring in Elixir H and B tosses and drinking which raises the Might Floor by 2+2+3 (7) means that really, Juggernaut is already superfluous – you can already reach 25 stacks without requiring Elixir C, or Juggernaut. This means you have a free slot to slot anything you like. Unless of course, you like the extra tankiness that equipping FT gives you with Juggernaut.

What I’d be doing is taking 2 from Inventions and 2 from Firearms and putting it into Explosives for Enhance Performance. This raises your Might floor even further to 13 stacks; thereby reducing the time Strength sigil needs to get you to maximum Might. Incendiary Powder also works to boost your FT1 damage. If you are running IP, consider Condition duration food in WvW but in PvE you probably don’t need food in open world, and just Power/Crit food in dungeons.

Now that Might is sorted, you can look at sustain. You have a free slot (you can use Elixir C still, but there are better options) so what I would run is Elixir Gun for the classic FT/EG combo. This gives you 1 cleanse per 12, Blast Finisher to combo with Napalm (Because you know, more might), extra damage with Elixir F when FT2 is on cooldown. There are a lot of things you can choose.

The second Sigil can be whatever, just not Life. On-Kill sigils generally aren’t useful even in PvE because they’re either contributing too much, or too little. I would suggest either Sigil of Air or Fire or Blood.

Finally with regards to gear, I think that whilst Celestial Armor and weapons might be efficient, Trinkets are probably less so. 25 Might stacks will make any gear set feel powerful, but in PvE, Berserker is the most efficient. Even in WvW, once you get a certain minimum level of Toughness/Vitality, the rest of the stats should be damage, because defense only prolongs fights, whilst damage ends them.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQFAUlcTpdrVXxWLseRSdBNqoAqAI6aEje8x+VTA-TxBGwABuAAkV/hoyvK6AA8AAav/wUlgAA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQFAUlcTpdrVXxWLseNSdBNqoA6AchuK6aEjeA-TxBGwABuAAkV/hoyvK6AA8AAav/wUlgAA-e

Welp, this thread is going downhill again. But to address a previous point:

Reevz.2617:

Chaith.8256:

Reevz.2617:

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

make grenades have a “danger close” zone where if thrown too closely to the engineer they self-inflict conditions*snip*

snip

Yes, grenades are too good, compared to bombs. It has that snap 1v1 counter-pressure, where the Engineer really has little access to that, otherwise. Thats why in PvP, Grenade-less builds don’t really happen.

I’d love to use Bombs instead of Grenades, for a change. Maybe change Autodefense Bomb Dispenser trait to remove the fuse time of bombs (not the casting time, and not Big Ol’ Bomb). That would mean it would be unable to be used with grenades in the same build.

I’d totally run this build, then!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpPrtbxkLseNCbBNyx8GRuxq85GEglC-TJRHwAFeAAAuAAk2f4YZAA

removing the fuse on bombs would make it quite hard to reliably dodge them tbh not a good idea— we dont need more things like necro marks :P even if it would be melee

Well, it would be exactly how Grenades are right now. .5s Cast emote in melee, but yeah, I see what you’re saying. If instant Melee bombs are toxic, instant Melee grenades are too, then, by logic.

pretty much right, though there should be more risk/reward for getting in close with a ranged weapon set i guess? theres just too much in this game that is “toxic” :P

At some point, I do have to wonder whether it might have been better to make Grenades not have impact detonation, and Bombs some kind of Proximity mechanic that made them detonate when an opponent ran over them.

On the other hand, Bombs are really poorly cued compared to Grenades. GK’s skills are visually distinct down to the autoattack; whereas Bombs are a lot more ambiguous. Only the AOE radii truly distinguishes say, Glue bomb from the rest. Concussion bomb is even smaller than the autoattack bomb. That’s just silly. Dropping bombs at the feet as well; although useful for an anti-melee kiting kit that BK seems to be designed for; is also pretty toxic in that you have no idea what Bomb is dropped; especially against Asura or Charr with long coats.

This is why I do think that it might be a good idea to make Bombs be tossed out in front of the Engineer by say, 180 or so units. That way you can set up proximity detonations. The human eye is also drawn to movement; so having a moving object, colour coded for visual cueing, would be a lot better counterplay-wise compared to the current BK attacks.

In this way you can have your cake and eat it too.

• You can now aim bombs to go off immediately by aiming your character at the enemy. Bombs are thrown at enemy’s feet, go off after ~3/4 total cast time + travel time. Like any other strong melee attack, really.
  • If you miss, you suffer the full 1 second delay before detonation. Fair’s fair, given the sheer radius and condition spreading power of Bombs.

That said, Power Bombs or even hybrid Bombs is going to be really hard to pull off. Total coefficients for Power of BK are as given (RIP Steady weapon testing):

• BK 1: 1.25
• BK 2: 0.2 but ticks 4 times (0.8 total over 3 total seconds)
• BK 3: 0.4 (due to 5 confusion stacks)
• BK 4: 0
• BK 5: 0
• Toolbelt BK: 1.7
  • This is a total of 4.15 assuming best case scenario.
  • Grenade Kit traited with Grenadier in comparison is total 7.14 (0.33×3 + 0.55×3 + 0×3 (Flash Grenade) + 0.5×3 + 0×3 (Poison Grenade deals no direct damage) + 0.375×8) although realistically one should only expect around 2/3rds of that due to scatter.

Clearly Grenade Kit is the better hybrid kit. Bomb Kit’s coefficients are going to have to be shifted away from BK1; into Fire bomb and Concussion bomb. Perhaps even Glue Bomb.

I would gladly take a Path of Exile-style Concentrated Effect type trait that boosts the power coefficients of BK extensively whilst reducing its AOE radius, Burning and Confusion output. Maybe it could replace Autodefense Bomb Dispenser. But BK has a lot of changes – perhaps too much to contemplate – before it can even begin to move away from its point-dominating, point-spamming role.

Dirame.8521:

I made a full gadget build a while ago(video here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJPsxW-myW4 , Build here; http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpxrdexvLseRCbhMy4hBVHRON6HjEA-TZBFwACeAAI3PI0CCVLDA4CAAA), was just a fun build you could play, nothing you can really play against a good team though.

You can move the traits around to fit in your favourite heal skill.

5 Scholar 1 Divinity? That’s sooo 2013.

(/droll)

Jokes aside, the recent buffs to AED, Gadgeteer and double Sigils have made triple Gadgets more viable than before.

Gadgeteer 2014

• I omitted Incendiary Powder now that you can run Fire/Air Sigils. The loss in DoT pressure is more than made up for by more consistent damage (and more frequent procs and better scaling) of Fire/Air

100mines with Slick Shoes

• Arguably less bursty than classic 100mines, but incorporates a stunbreak and more knockdowns for better survivability. Also means you can set up easy, easy Magnets. Magnets forever.

Anti-D/D Ele

• Rip Boons with Throw Mine/Mine Field. Pretty decent Vigour upkeep with Fireforged Trigger/Elixir F/Invigorating Speed. Pretty good Poison uptime with Fumigate. F1 stun to execute after Ele leaves Water Attunement. Celestial might work with this, but who needs Celestial when you have 3 seconds of Block frames every 16 seconds? Spam EG1 when Ele is in Fire attunement, or Pry Bar when in Air attunement and he can’t burst or pressure. One of the few builds where you might want to keep Mine Field out instead of detonating immediately. Still, go for the 100mines whenever you have the chance. Just remember that Mine Field will be up twice during a fight against Ele; three times if you want to maximise AED. Plan for it. He can kiss his Might stacks goodbye, as well as his lifebar.
  • Also works against Warrior. EG1 is the clutchest autoattack in the game when faced with Eviscerate and you have no dodges.

The KB King

• A redux of the old Decap Engineer build, now with more active Condition clear and almost 50% more killy. Just remember that despite the Sigil of Nullification, Retal is easily covered and will kill you if you try to FT1 spam into it. Having said that, you have a lot more effective health, and a lot more ways to extend it compared to the old decap build.
• Strength Sigil means you don’t need Juggernaut anymore; especially with Quickness.
• Deadly Mixture, FT2.
• Also works alright with Elixir X. Hope for Juggernaut. If you get Tornado; you’re still good to go, just spam 3.
• Quickness stomps all day.

Prysin.8542:

MonMalthias.4763

snip, long quote

I was referrung to ST AD, whilst it cannot produce the bleedstacks of a sb setup, it can burst more often and in a much more potent way. It applies more stress as you get more evades to play with thus more damage mitigation and also the addition of burning further increases damage.

I don’t main Ranger but sure, I can see where the Sword/Torch Axe/Dagger combo could be strong. The evades could definitely help with fighting on point; and Burning adds some condi variety to cover against the cleansing.

Can’t say I’ve played the class enough in PVP to make a judgement one way or another. But just going back to my earlier point of soft counter outplay vs hard counters; I think that the state of the game as it is right now has never been better; but there is still a lot Anet can do to make the meta a lot more dynamic by making even the “hard counter” matchups 70/30 and there have been many threads across both the SPVP forums and in Profession Balance that point the way forward.

Carighan.6758:

I hope it includes making more skills overpowered or at least feel overpowered.
I actually mean that.

I think as far as perceived feel of combat flow goes, having every action (or at least the right-hand side actions) you take feel like it’s having a very significant impact on the outcome of the battle makes for a more fun game.
There are currently a handful of abilities which feel like they can change things massively, given the right situations. Rezz Banner, Feedback (or rather area-reflects in general), etc. Problem is, even these only really feel strong in very specific situations. Which is exactly where they need to be, only with the majority of abilities so lackluster, there’s no alternatives.

So in other words, I’d make utilities and elites balance entirely by being unable to bring all of them. They should be overpowered on their own, and balanced only once you realize that for every 3 Utility you have, you can’t take another 40 and the other party also has 3 per person.
This also adds a lot of specialization to each character. Someone equipping boon-giving effects would be really powerful at that (and someone without them consequently ~ignorable).

I think that there’s certainly a place to make every thing “feel” overpowered but I think it’s better to design things towards fulfilling a particular role and achieving a particular build setup. Combinations of Utilities, properly supported with Traits like Meditation Guardian can feel strong yet as we all know, still leave deficiencies in a build.

You’re absolutely correct that things like the Feedback bubble and Warrior Elite Banner feel powerful. I think it’s actually a little strange that more Mesmers haven’t taken up Feedback in particular; nor Null Field, in this projectile and Boon heavy meta. Perhaps it’s the feeling that every Mesmer should be taking Portal, Blink and Decoy (Standard Shatter) (or in WvW, Veil, Portal, Blink).

Of any class, Mesmer has the most interesting and situationally powerful Utilities and I do think that it’s certainly something that Anet can take and apply to other classes. But given the way Mesmer has evolved and is played now, do you think that making every utility situationally OP is going to be enough? Because what’s going to happen is that people are going to take the utilities that are the most combo-tastic (Portal, Blink) and discard the rest. With Mesmer, that is certainly what has happened (RIP Illusion of Life); as it has with Elementalist Glyphs, Engineer Gadgets, Warrior Physicals, Necromancer Signets (does anyone remember when Signet of Undeath was still run?), Ranger Shouts – the list goes on.

I think that the ongoing evolution of the Conquest PVP meta has demonstrated that only the builds that have the widest relative applicability – balancing Mobility, Damage and Defense with role defining capabilities (Guardian Stability access, Warrior CC train, Necromancer ultimate Condition pressure, Elementalist/Engineer adaptability, Ranger off point pressure, Thief mobility/burst, Mesmer Utility/Burst – rise to the top.

Until there are more game modes that really emphasise the teamfight-turning power of the skills you mention, I don’t think that there is too much more room to grow each profession. We might see it with Lord Rush, we might not. What’s clear is that the current meta builds for each respective class are differentiated in role, utility and team synergy. Whether they’ll still compete in a context that does not revolve around running around on capture points remains to be seen; but I get the feeling that they’ll still be around.

manveruppd.7601:

MonMalthias.4763:

In addition, corrupting the Might is hardly guaranteed given Elemental Attunement/Elemental Fury’s sheer boon variety of output: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Boon-Removal-Priorities

Necro would win because of counterbuilding, but not 100%, and not without taking significant damage as the Might is not guaranteed to be corrupted. And for Elementalists like Phantaram (he duels Condi necro and wins 4:1) it isn’t even a full counter.

The boons from attunement swaps aren’t really the problem: it’s more about the constant, passive, and frequent boon procs from the most popular runesets and sigils that were boosted in April (mostly Strength and Pirate). Combined with the hidden priority list for corruptions it means that you hardly ever get to remove the most powerful boons like stability (they’re just buried too deep), and whatever you do remove will get reapplied within seconds!

I honestly think that d/d ele is ok – it’s the runes that need rebalancing.

Right, that’s what I was saying in the first part of my post when I mentioned how Pirate Runes were dropped by Ele soon after the changes; and how changes to Might Duration on Hoelbrak and Strength runes, and Battle Sigil would have a significant impact on the damage output of D/D; thus necessitating that D/D build less tanky to compensate – Stone Splinters making a comeback over Earth’s Embrace – or be forced to take more DPS oriented Utilities; such as Arcane Wave. Either way, the output of D/D Ele is reduced so the confluence of a Tanky build is more difficult to boost up with ludicrous Might.

Jekkt.6045:

Trait dark path to corrupt boons and you can corrupt 2 boons + chill every 10s. Wrecks every ele.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNAW7Yjc0UebfNG3wfbighSyW4Di+ACgzlykIKA-TZRHwAC3fIwRAAZZABXEAAPAAA

Actually, it’s 12 seconds fully traited; and this is a build that’s basically fully “counterbuilding” against Ele with double corruptions. If Ele wasn’t so predominant right now Necro would be building for the team and running Epidemic.

This isn’t to deny that double corruptions on Necro isn’t strong; nor is Reaper’s Protection not toxic; but it does say something about the current state of Elementalist when a Necro is running a GM trait, CDR, and a Utility slot just to corrupt Boons. 2013 Necro running Epidemic and Withering Precision/Enfeebling Blood would get eaten up by current 2014 D/D Ele.

In addition, corrupting the Might is hardly guaranteed given Elemental Attunement/Elemental Fury’s sheer boon variety of output: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Boon-Removal-Priorities

Necro would win because of counterbuilding, but not 100%, and not without taking significant damage as the Might is not guaranteed to be corrupted. And for Elementalists like Phantaram (he duels Condi necro and wins 4:1) it isn’t even a full counter.

infantrydiv.1620:

4. Renewing Stamina: Arenanet needs to decide whether eles should have: permanent vigor, high protection up time, good condi removal, or high passive healing. Because at the moment they have all 4. They have already nerfed other classes access to vigor, and now would be the perfect time to nerf eles vigor, as the class is currently a bit overtuned.

Solution: Maybe give vigor on using an arcane skill (?), or change this trait to something else entirely.

There’s already a trait that gives Energy on Arcane use; it’s just that no-one takes it

I think that the problem with Ele at the moment is again; not so much with the class as it is Runes and Sigils. The 25 Might stack D/D Ele is a threat not so much because it is highly defensive, but that it is also pretty offensive. 25 Might Burning from Drake’s Breath hits like a truck; yet eating the full channel without Might isn’t even that threatening. I think when Pirate Runes were nerfed in Might Duration and now no Ele runs it; it’s pretty telling of what exactly is propping up the class.

If you nerf Hoelbrak, Strength rune to 30% bonus duration, and Battle Sigil down to 15 seconds (even 12 seconds), you will see a significant change in Cele D/D Ele’s threat profile.

I remember when the change to Renewing Stamina was shouted down back in December 2013 because Ele really didn’t have a lot else going for it back then. Now that Cleansing Water has had its ICD taken off, and Double Sigils are in, I wouldn’t argue strongly otherwise, but again, it isn’t so much that D/D Ele is defensive so much as it is strongly offensive at the same time.

I do think, however, that all this will do is just make D/D Ele take Battle/Energy instead of Battle/Doom. The synergy of Vigour with Evasive Arcana is just too great to pass up; and you’ll still be stuck with dodges every 5 seconds on Ele. Then you’ll have to nerf Energy Sigil.

With regards to a class specific nerf I won’t disagree with the change; but I think Elementalist really, really needs to grow beyond 40+ in Water and Arcana and if anything, this change makes 30 points in Arcana even more important for the 6 second Vigour breakpoint.

I’ve got a few ideas down as to how Ele might move away from Water and Arcana.

I think that overall, Elementalist suffers when it’s not running anything but double-triple Cantrip and without Elemental Attunement/Evasive Arcana. No other build for Elementalist comes close in matching the survivability to damage ratio but here’s a few ways other things can be brought up for relative balance:

• Shaving Signet of Restoration to heal at its current level when hitting a foe ; but less when just stow-cancelling Lightning Whips into the air.

Overall, Vigour and Condition cleansing for Elementalist should be shifted from Traits into Utilities. For example:

• Signet of Water now cleanses 1 condition on dodge. If an attack is evaded, 2 conditions are cleansed instead.

• Arcane Energy buffed to 33 Energy instead of 25.

• Healing Rain to apply only 1 stack of Regeneration for 10 seconds, but cleanse every pulse. Thus Cleansing Water is less powerful with it.

• Healing Ripple to have its base value decreased and its scaling improved. It should be difficult unless running a Cleric Amulet to make it heal past 1.5k. Celestial makes it heal 1.6k right now with 6 points in Water. Same with Cleansing Wave; it should be difficult to exceed 2k without a Cleric Amulet; yet it heals 2k on Celestial.

• Glyph Heal to cleanse 1 condition specific to Attunement; i.e. Burning for Fire, Chill for Water, Bleed for Earth, Weakness for Air. Also to make its cooldown 20 seconds instead of 25.

• Burning Fire to instead cleanse 1 condition when Blasting a Fire Field; and Burning 3 foes in a 240 Radius for 2 seconds.

• Adding a trait in Master Earth or Master Air Magic that causes Arcane Skills to cleanse 1 condition on use.
  • Same thing for Signets, but maybe in Fire? Perhaps make Fire’s Embrace make the Fire Aura also cleanse 1 condition on application, but only when traited.

• Diamond Skin should be reworked to instead transfer 1 condition on next attack to Foe after attuning to Earth. Hard Counters are bad design.

Overall this would shift Elementalist away from the high sustain that it enjoys with 4+ in Water to less sustainy lines; whilst aiming to keep Cleanses per 10 seconds around 3; but requiring more interaction for both its sustain and its cleanse. Obviously full Cleric’s Staff support should be still viable but this means lower base values and higher scaling such that only Cleric or other high Healing power amulets can attain such levels; with Celestial being less valuable.

EDIT: I cannot into spoilers.

infantrydiv.1620:

1. Empathic Bond: This trait is really poorly designed and implemented. It’s annoying to me as a ranger that I can’t clear when I want to, and it’s annoying to people I fight that their condis are removed randomly and automatically! It’s also annoying to my poor pet which takes all my condis up its rear.

Solution: Change this trait to remove conditions upon pet swap, possibly move it to the beastmastery trait line.

I don’t main Ranger, but I do play one and Empathic Bond is pretty strong, for sure. I think that any build – including Ranger builds – looking to fight on point need approximately 3+ cleanses per 10 seconds to have adequate clear; and indeed builds like 00266 D/D Ele or CI/Burst Mastery Warrior and the Ranger node fighter builds of 2013 and early 2014 seem to have that as a key feature as well.

The issue here is that pet swap is 20 seconds (16 traited). 3 cleanses per 16-20 seconds is a pretty significant downgrade for the advantage of having control over the cleanse. The depth of clear would have to be finagled as well. Should it be 6 cleanses per swap to match the old output? That’s CI levels of clear, with the caveat of killing your pet. A change like this would have major consequences for the node fighting builds of Ranger.

infantrydiv.1620:

2. Reaper’s Protection: It’s just flat out annoying to be feared for 3 seconds because you landed a good CC on a necromancer.

Solution: ? Possibly gain life force when CCed, would have to be tested

A lot of the counter-CC passives like Reaper’s Protection or Last Stand or Mirror of Anguish are on long cooldowns and in Master Tier because they provide almost full mitigation; whereas partial mitigation against CC like Engineer’s Protection Injection (doesn’t cover Condition burst) is on shorter cooldowns and in Adept Tier. I think that making RP provide that kind of partial mitigation would require it to be moved down to Adept Tier. But what trait could it replace? Dark Armour? Keeping RP at Master Tier with that kind of partial mitigation would be a pretty significant nerf to Necro’s counterpressure.

infantrydiv.1620:

3. Incendiary Powder: I’m sorry, this trait needs to go. Engineer’s most damaging condition on a completely undodgeable, random proc is not skillful.

Solution: Remove incendiary powder as a trait, give Engineers compensation with things like more condi clear, better autoattacks, lowered cooldowns on elixirs, etc. This would help solve engineers hardcountering thieves but being hardcountered by necros.

I think making a lot more matchups more 50/50 would be nice. Even having Condi Necro be like 70/30 against the current meta Engi builds would be an improvement. That said, removing IP would require a practical rework of how Engineer functions as it does at the moment; with all the balancing, re-balancing and re-re-balancing it would entail after such a huge shakeup. I don’t think Anet will be willing to take that plunge.

I think it might be safer to change IP such that it requires a skill floor. Like:
Incendiary Powder

• Critical hits grant you Incendiary Powder charges. You may not gain more than 1 charge per second. (Prevents GK/FT dominating the crit-seeking arena). Charges last up to 5 seconds. You may store up to 3 charges.
  • Using a Toolbelt skill expends your charges. Each charge makes your next attack cause a Flame Burst; inflicting Burning on up to 3 foes for 2 seconds per charge. 15 second cooldown.

On next attack subjects IP to every single mechanic that players can use to avoid damage; whilst maintaining the on crit requirement by building charges with Crits. 6 seconds of Burning in 3 applications means that the possibility of growing Burning past 9 total seconds – is extremely difficult. It locks bonus Condition duration to 50% and 100% breakpoints.

After that, nerf Balthazar Runes to 30% as it should be, and Napalm Specialist to 25% as it should be. Thus, 100% Burning Duration is still achievable, but not without sacrifice; and overall uptime, assuming no Blocks, Dodges, Invulns or Aegis will be capped at 80%. 12 seconds of Burning is no joke, to be fair; but again, there is a lot more windup, a lot more counterplay, and a lot more investment required. Given how situationally valuable each Toolbelt skill is; I would say that this is enough of a nerf. Add a vocal cue like “Trogdor!” or “Killing it with Fire!” or “Light ’em up!” as enough charges are reached as well; and IP will become a lot better cued.

insanemaniac.2456:

why should you have to use kits

You don’t have to use kits; certainly. I’m just spoiled by having a weapon swap, being able to animation cancel on demand and having more cooldowns at hand. The great thing about kits is that you can run as many or as few as you like; I just happen to run 2-3 routinely; and prior to the Kit Refinement nerf, 4 kits.

The category of skills that next comes closest to the utility of kits is probably traited Turrets; or traited Elixirs. Gadgets are great additions to a build, but it’s pretty hard to make a build that revolves around Gadgets. The closest build I’ve seen to succeed is probably Vee Wee’s Gadget build that focuses on Magnet → Slick Shoes → Rifle Burst. It’s a decent skirmisher but again, there aren’t Gadgets in every slot.

Funnily enough Vee Wee’s build is going to be buffed with the upcoming changes to Slick Shoes; as will Chaith’s power build. We’ll have to see if the CDR makes a difference; and it most likely will; but I don’t think SS will suddenly become meta over say, Elixir S or EG for the same role.

Rocket Boots will still have a role due to being a strong escape tool and pretty solid damage with Rocket Kick in a Condi build; as would Throw Mine in their respective niches. We’ll have to see what happens in terms of trait support for Gadgets; because we know that Elixirs and Turrets are good with the right Traiting. Perhaps a future patch that adds condi cleanse or sustain to Gadgets will make them meta worthy. Or heck, even Stability access. Stability on Slick Shoes instead of a cooldown reduction buff sounds like a smarter buff that addresses core deficiencies.

Too BaD.3941:

I love how engi plays and its my fav for PvP and i’m always fooling around with the build but heres the problem i’m always facing, i’m not a meta fan and always try to make my own build and gadgets build is what i try to make but to be honest they can’t ever compare to turrets and even when traited they seem lacking

A.E.D. is my fav heal skill (how you have to time it right to get that almost full healing effect) but the cast time for it is too long and it takes forever to recharge and the only trait that makes it feasible is Automated Medical Response

so i was wondering if anyone feels that way and i’m waiting to hear you call me a noob for making a gadget build

The problem with every single Gadget build that fails is that it doesn’t incorporate enough damage. Gadgets have no innate sustain or condi cleanse (unless you count Rocket Boots snare cleanse as “real” Condi cleanse) so your window of engagement for a Gadget build almost always is going to be shorter than that of say, Condi Rabid Engi (Bomb Kit, P/X etc) or builds with superior range, like Grenade Kit Engi (Cele or Rabid).

A short window of engagement means burst damage, and burst damage means Power. And the burstiest of builds that Engineer can conceivably run is 100mines:

WvW version using Celestial Armour – feel free to use whatever armour you want as long as Weapon and Accessories are Berserker

PvP Version

Engineer has the damage of 2012 Thief; with the disadvantages of zero Condi cleanse or sustain or mid-range pressure. On the other hand, you have the damage of 2012 thief. This means 15k burst combos that allow you to zero out almost any other class, in a package with CC and decent mobility. Since AED is off-meta, it easily baits many classes into trading with you once you hit 10% HP and giving you the full cleanse and heal. (And reset).
HibaTheShoopuff and DoctorBeetus on Twitch showcase the build off pretty well – albeit with a WvW focus.

We were trying to teach 100mines to Arken yesterday (starts at 2:18:30; then going into next vod ) and even with someone that is first time on Engineer, missing at least 30-40% of the 100mines burst due to execution errors it’s clear that the build does its job quite well.

The other Gadgets, like Slick Shoes, PBR, Utility Goggles and Rocket Boots just don’t really fit that well into builds right now. I know that back in 2012-2013 Teldo of Team Paradigm ran Rocket Boots, Bomb Kit, Flamethrower for a quad-Burning build and it should still work pretty decently as a close range bruiser – arguably even stronger now given the various QoL buffs to FT and BK – but again, more than 1 gadget on your toolbar is asking to give up a lot of sustain and has opportunity costs for Kits.

Chaith was running his old Magnet -> Slick Shoes -> Grenade Kit combo yesterday and it definitely shows that Slick Shoes has a role in a build but again, its one skill, not 2+ as a Gadget build would imply.

The upcoming buff to Slick Shoes might improve its usability; it might not. I would say it won’t because the problem with SS wasn’kittens cooldown but rather that Super Speed didn’t cleanse snares; and that Slick Shoes practically requires Magnet from TK to synergise with anything; or that Slick Shoes needed to be activated together with Super Speed to achieve a usable play out of it.

As for PBR and UG, they’re pretty bad right now. Not that Blind Immunity and Reveal is bad per se for UG; it just doesn’t lead into anything by itself. PBR is just terrible outside of Static Discharge builds and even in that role, Rifle Turret covers the role better, having superior cooldowns, and incorporates a Blast Finisher and traitable knockback with APT that overlaps the PBR mainbar skill anyway. If Gadgets had good trait support, PBR and UG could find a role but until then, the only “good” ones are Throw Mine and AED and Rocket Boots (as long as not more than 2 Gadgets are run)

Prysin.8542:

MonMalthias.4763:

snip of own post

There is the other side too namely setups that counter the very strong “general” builds such as DD ele and engi.
Among them is most condi ranger builds due to massive poison uptime which helps shut down the healing. However condi ranger is against countered by burst thief which is countered by DD ele which is countered by condi ranger again.
So while it may not look like it, there is a “circle of power” that may not be as obvious unless you know how every build on every profession works.

I am not saying rangers hardcounter eles, but give the ranger and ele equal skill and a ST AD rabid/celestial ranger will outperform the ele due to evasion, CC and poison. The other conditions is on low cooldowns allowing for several condition bursts if played correctly. The low HP pool of eles cannot take this treatment, and usually you can burn through all the cleanses a ele got within 12-15 seconds if playing your cards right.

Right, but the build you just mentioned ( I presume you mean something like this? ) is, as you yourselkittennowledged, a soft counter to generalists like Cele D/D 00266 Ele. The matchups that I am referring to are the insuperable ones; as in; matchups that require too many circumstantial advantages for the “losing side” and a large skill advantage over the “winning side” to be concievably winnable.

I feel that more builds and circumstances like your Condi Bleed ranger against Cele Ele should be in game as opposed to some extremely lopsided matchups in game right now, like DPS Guard vs Zerker Thief; or Shatter Mesmer vs Staff Ele or the classic “hardest of counters” Condi Necro vs most meta Engineer builds. That so many of these matchups put almost all the burden of skill on the defender is a worrying trend. It’s circumstances like these that will inevitably put the meta back into 2012-2013 – where at least 1-2 classes languished every single meta. (Warrior post Quickness Nerf; into Ranger post Spirits nerf, into Elementalist post Water Magic nerf(s)).

The meta’s the healthiest it’s ever been; with all 8 classes boasting at least 1 build that makes them meta worthy. That’s something that Arenanet could not possibly even hope to claim last year; and I applaud them for their achievement. But again, the contemptuous ease by which this fragile detente can be shattered is very real. Thief and Warrior, so long being top dog; are fading. Bunker Guardian, so long a staple of Conquest, may well be sidelined altogether in the face of Lord Rush that from what has been seen so far, emphasises mobility. It’s being sidelined even now in fact, due to Cele Ele.

I think that the QoL changes this patch are great, safe, and nicely conservative. But again, that hasn’t stopped Anet from dropping meta-shattering changes that went relatively undocumented until extremely late in the Patch Preview process. (See: Deceptive Evasion last year until shouted down, or the Eleventh hour reprieve against Perplexity Runes being introduced to PvP in April).

To corrupt a certain statesman’s phrase, the price of balance is eternal vigilance; and we as a community have at times not been vigilant. (See: Warrior becoming OP not immediately after Dhuumfire, but being demonstrated to be OP in September, at PAX; by which it then was another 11 more months of Warrior domination until just recently. That Runes and Sigils are now so powerful, so build defining; so multiplicative, only adds to the balance minefield that Anet has to navigate.

Clearly the way forward is to reduce the power creep of Runes and Sigils. The QoL changes don’t really change the meta significantly; but that’s because the outlier combos haven’t been touched.