Guild Wars 2

Burtnik.5218:

Plus, the class is so neutered and bugged that from here can only improve…

Don’t underestimate ANet.^^
Like Burtnik one year ago, i was there during the “beta” tests of both HOT and the all new and shiny Revenant. We didn’t need more than a few hours to see all the flaws Revenant had, and we had only 3 legends back then.
The energy system is half done. They wanted to do a system like GW1, but GW1 and 2 do not share the same combat nor the same pace.

We proposed many ways to change it, be it removing energy from weapon skills and adjusting CDs accordingly while keeping the energy for legend skills only, or removing CDs from everything but adjusting energy costs.
We disccussed it for like a week until the release and after, and we had just 0 answers on any proposals we did, not even reason that would explain why ideas were good or bad, nothing.

The legends are poorly designed.
Jalis was supposed to be the “tanky” legend, the taunt is useless, the road has been nerfed so hard it’s not usefull in any way, Hammers are still bugged after more than a year, they could keep the visual of the hammers and make it a pulsating AoE to avoid the collision but….well, you know…..
RotgD is impossible to use because of the long casting animation and super high energy cost.
Mallyx was completely destroyed between the beta and the release. They removed all the displacement effects, and the concept of beeing the target of condis to make yourself stronger was impossible in practise because of the AoE dispells of allies.
Shiro was too mobile and got nerfed super hard because of PvP and WvW, making it a mere shadow of itself in PvE, adding to that you can’t have superspeed with Facet of nature active making one skill almost useless (even more if you have a chronomancer)
Ventari’s tablet is clunky as hell and super hard to use for mediocre results, making you a sitting duck in the process.

The addition at the last moment of weapon swap (wich was impossible before for Rev) did completely change the core philosophy of having 2 legends allowing adaptability mid fights. and pushing even more toward hard nerfing instead of gameplay shifts.

Weapons were supposed to be all rounder when legends were our specialised skills (like weapon swap is for other classes and element attunment for Elementalists), instead we can have weapons that are almost never usefull.
Sword MH : push 1 and……that’s all, everything else is a DPS loss, skill 2 was supposed to allow the Rev to keep his target in range, and it has become a dps only if the 3 hits the same target, sword 3 is bugged as hell, it still has its uses thanks to the invulnerability frames but that’s all. And be happy, it’s our best dps weapon. xD
I could analyse every weapon set but it’s been already done so much time it’s a waste of time to do it again for nothing.

And add to that the fact the Revenant was designed WITH his Elite specialisation in mind wich was not the case of core professions, making the “base” Revenant irrelevant (at least in PvE).

The Revenant was made only to appeal to old GW1 players that were losing faith in the game and in that it succeded…..for a while ^^

ED is an upkeep skill, it means it drains Revenant energy as long as it is active.
Revenant natural regen is +5 pips, ED is -10, it means ED will drain Rev energy pretty quickly (1pip = 1energy/second) means at 100% energy, he can keep it 10s.
But remember that it means he can’t use anything else than AA, all other skills will cost him energy and make ED end earlier.

What if the “wind up” move could dodged at least. It would give one simple way to avoid the skill.
If you dodge the first windup move, then UA fails. After all, the cd is low and it’s the only skill really dangerous on a sword/x revenant.

Mallyx elite copies conditions every second (one stack of one condi at a time), combined with the traits that gives resistance, and copies another condi i’m sure it’s this

There is a bug, create another revenant with a beta slot then your original one will have access to it

skowcia.8257:

I agree. I was disgusted by that added cd as well. Revenant was supposed to be opposite to thief. They can spam wep skills without cd, we can spam utility without cd’s – at least that what we was supposed to do. In last beta forced engagement had added 3sec cooldown as well (while tis not a lot it still can be affected by chill/power lock to end up with 15cd.). I think it wont take too long before they add cd everywhere. At this point that energy system is pointless. Double punishment. I hope road is the last skill they slapped cd on otherwise i will up be for removing energy system completely.

Many people would disagree on your statement of “opposite of thief” but that’s not the problem here.
I think Roy did touch too much balance options at the same time.
nerfing the skill + increased CD + higher energy cost.
I don’t think touching the 3 options at the same time was justified.

I read Jalis changes…. and i dropped a tear :‘D
Now i hope the hammer collisions will be more forgiving because right now there are many places in Itzel village where you just can’t even cast (it on bridges mostly)
And now i know why some traits felt like they were not their because,…well they were not working in fact. Can’t wait for the next Revenant test!
<3

Now that’s good to see our (sometimes intense) discussions were not for nothing!
Glint seems cool, and i was almost right for upkeep costs
Nice underwater combat too.
µI can’t wait to see the complete change list!
Thx a lot Roy! Keep up the good work!

+1 for an early access to Revenant core spec when underwater combat is rdy. ^^
This would allow us to get more used to energy system for a longer period of time on existing content.
This would also allow for fast testing of any tweak on energy costs/cds

Invictus.1503:

Rym.1469:

Professions weren’t influenced by human gods. Other way around.

It brings smile to my face every time people try to bound something with either six dragons or six human gods. Glint was older than anyone of human pantheon, so Facets aren’t inspired by any of those.

Professions were influenced by the gods according to lore (check out shrines in GW1 or GW1 Wiki). As for the facets, they obviously had influence from the professions. The facets were created for the purpose of testing the humans

Lore wise, i can agree, but to be honest Facets were not inspired by gods/professions lore wise, but professions gameplay wise. “For the purpose of testing the” players ^^
Lore justifications as long as they are not written in-game can be changed anytime.

And to come back to GLint/Jalis. Roy said he pushed Jalis to a more “tanky” side, but i guess it will be a more selfish tanky side.

Displacement can’t be a condition because it applies instantly and is more like a stun or knockback.
They can reduce the field radius though.

Oh good point!
Dodging before the pulse should avoid the displacement as well. I didn’t test if it passes threw blocks, but i guess it shouldn’t (beware of unblockable traits though)
These are worth a good testing!

Stability not working is a bug, it should be fixed soon.
The use of the trait that strip 2 charges of stability is also in cause because of the pulses.
Don’t worry it will not stay as it is ^^

Kidel.2057:

ronpierce.2760:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I’m cool and say stuff!

But Roy, where’s our reliable Condition removal for DPS specs? Ease my worries!

+1 on this, otherwise shiro|glint will be hard

Wait to see what will be the changes on traits and skills tomorrow guys ^^

Invictus.1503:

Treetoptrickster.4205:

Kidel.2057:

Yeah but I won’t forgive him if we’re unable to use Shiro+Glint because of lack of condi cleanse

There were six facets that were largely themed around the gods as WP said in his video about yesterday’s post. I’d imagine that whatever the ‘facet of Kormir’ skill might have condi cleanse. If not then I’m willing to bet the heal skill will at least, as the active or the upkeep.

Well, they were heavily influenced, but different. in fact, Kormir wasn’t a god at that time and as far as the general public knew at the time there were only 5 True Gods (most didn’t know about the imprisoned Abbadon).

Facets were not influenced by the gods, but by the six original heroic professions of GuildWars Prophecies (even if all professions are tied to gods anyway)

process execution.8014:

Knighthonor.4061:

but what good is that to us? That may be good on a Ele with tons of boons, but on a Revenant? how that going to help us in our current issues (Energy cost, lack of choices, lack of self defense, etc)?

Elite specialisations shouldn’t be used to address core problems with a profession, otherwise it becomes mandatory. Just because the Herald has been revealed doesn’t mean that ANet have stopped iterating on the base Revenant, and hopefully those changes will make the Herald more appealing.

Roy already said he kept working on the others legends, mentionning a more “tanky” Jalis already. He said he will explain all of that in a big blog post friday or monday ^^

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Mournilg.4870:

I guess upkeeps will be something like -3/-4, so you can activate 2 and still not be out of energy in 8 seconds.
Well at least i hope you can keep at least one permanently with still a low but positive energy regen

Some are cheap, some are expensive. You’ll be able to keep multiple up at the same time. A lot of the inspiration for the skills came from what you might find a bard style class doing in other games.

I’ll be showing it all off plus some extra things on the POI this Friday which will give a much better idea of how everything works.

Now that’s really interesting, can’t wait to see it in action ^^
I’m also curious to see what will be the difference between Brill as a support and the more Tanky Jalis you talked about

skowcia.8257:

Mournilg.4870:

I guess upkeeps will be something like -3/-4, so you can activate 2 and still not be out of energy in 8 seconds.
Well at least i hope you can keep at least one permanently with still a low but positive energy regen

Im not sure about that.

“You trade off potential energy regeneration, and in turn the ability to use other skills, for the group benefit of these auras”

Well, trading energy regeneration doesn’t mean ALL energy regeneration.
Anyway, we’ll see that in the PoI so no need to theorize too much right now. ^^

I guess upkeeps will be something like -3/-4, so you can activate 2 and still not be out of energy in 8 seconds.
Well at least i hope you can keep at least one permanently with still a low but positive energy regen

skowcia.8257:

Invictus.1503:

BobbyT.7192:

Front line support role? so like a guardian…. with a potentially better shield?

The problem I have with the shield is that the cool skill roots you. Very limited practical use except in a bunker build. Even there, the tells and counter play are easy enough so it will likely get you killed anyway. The idea is cool, but the rooting you down is horrible!

Gotta agree, that selfroot has to go away. More underpowered stuff inc. I hope Roy will consider changing it before beta. We dont need a visioner to see how it will play out.

Btw could someone explain me exactly how these signets work? If i activate the upkeep skill what choice i do have to deactivate it? Will i get a option to deactivate it or i will be forced to shatter it/swap to turn it off?

And what happens if you activate another one without deactivating the previous, do they work together?
And as i understand it, we’ll have no other choice but to use the active part to deactivate and get the CD.
For people who wanted a class with no CD and only energy managment it’s quite unfortunate.

Believe me, it’s not because we don’t want to have to spend more hero point. Almost all Revenant testers pointed that problem and asked for adding 2 skills for each legend to port the total at 5×4=20 skills

skowcia.8257:

process execution.8014:

skowcia.8257:

“New” proposed mechanic is here basically life force.

True, except for all the parts where it’s not. But I suppose you prefer the existing mechanic that’s basically initiative.

Yep, i prefer current system. I dont had many troubles building up energy on power spec as those utility skills and doesnt really increase our dps by that much. Where i had problems was Mallyx vs condi spec. Mallyx is good and at same time poor as his olny reliable “long” access to resistance he got is pain absord.. if you dont want to melt you have to keep up energy just for this skill espesially against necro/mes with boonstrip. Kinda bad if you ask me..

I have a discussion on another thread just about that, but people saying that right now Mallyx is too good at maintaining resistance because of Demonic Defiance.

Yeah maybe 2 seconds is a bit too much on every skill use if you already have the resistance from Pain Absorption.
But remember you don’t “send” the conditions, you copy it, you still have it on you.
Might be indeed hard to balance, and worth an iteration testing with a reduced duration on Demonic Defiance.

skowcia.8257:

“New” proposed mechanic is here basically life force.

Well you can also call it adrenaline too, it’s a bar you need to fill so you can use a skill, though Necros don’t have to use some to fuel their weapon skills, and warriors one fill also with AA and hits on them.
The new system isn’t the bar, it is how we interact with it.

process execution.8014:

Mournilg.4870:

Would better to have gain 5 energy for each successfull strike, means 7*5 = 30 energy if all hits connects. 30 is less than 1/3 of your energy bar and you already used 15 energy for the skill itself

The problem with this is that there is very little counterplay. It simply becomes “spam 3 on cooldown to gain 15 Energy”, effectively reducing to a flat regen rate buff.

I understant what you mean, but when i mean connect, it means any blinded/evaded/blocked/dodgerolled hit would not give anything.
Don’t forget the entire skill can be evaded if the first animation tell is evaded and as of now can even be interrupted completely meaning 15 energy burned for nothing.

Would better to have gain 5 energy for each successfull strike, means 7*5 = 30 energy if all hits connects. 30 is less than 1/3 of your energy bar and you already used 15 energy for the skill itself

If we want the amount of skills to be faire, we should have EDIT : 5 (my bad forgot to change that) utilities by legend.
Like all other professions that gets 5 utilities of a given type (5×4 shouts, traps etc etc…)
The only thing that is not normal is having 4 elites where all other professions only have 3. (don’t count elite spec, wich means Rev too got one more elite)
I felt a little bit bad when i saw the skill panel as a revenant the first time…

I did propose something similar in another thread with Griffith, talking about a more pro-active energy generation on weapons skills hit depending on the difficulty to land it.
Conditionnal energy gain are a good idea too.
I just wait for Kidel to come and say “omg! stop asking for nerf!”

Anyway, Roy already did some significant changes it seems, and i don’t think energy active generation is going to be a thing considering he said he wants the Rev to feel the power of the legend he invoke. The power comes from the legend, not from the energy we build ourselves.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Manifibel.8420:

Oh it works Jekkt! Revenant was the profession I spend the most time on this BWE1, and it did very well, much better than last time [:
It needs balancing ofc, like every other professions does, and it will always be like that. I would like to see something really focused on defense like Endure Pain or Renewd Focus.

There will be some changes to jalis to push it more towards being ‘tanky’.

Now that’s some good news! Can’t wait to see all the changes! ^^

Kidel.2057:

That in pve is 100% of the time.
Also skill cost would be scaled up to make up for that, making revenant weaker in pvp where people can dodge.

gain if skill hits and lower passive drain. Are you asking for a nerf?

To be clear, if skills are to generate energy, they can’t cost it, that would be stupid.
And the energy gain would be proportionnal to the difficulty of landing the skill.

In pvp, landing a skill is harder i agree, that’s why energy costs should be lowered too.
If your ennemy is good enough to avoid ALL your skills and baits, then i think he deserves his win no?

Kidel.2057:

I said what I had to say. Let’s wait for the upcoming changes post at the end of the week.

If you add energy regen on WS you basically end up spamming utility, then spam some ws, then spam utility again, then weaponswap and use some more ws cd, then spam utility again and repeat.

You get no punisment for wrong management. Just another skillspam class. no brain involved.
I won’t complain, it would be easier, but brainless.

Not skill spamming if the energy was given only if the skill hits. Besides, if we get energy gain on ws, then the natural energy refill should be drastically lower than it is now.

Kicker.8203:

—
—Shiro’s heal does trigger on sword 3, only it has an internal cd of 1sec . it only triggers about 3 times during the 7 hits
.

Wrong, i did the test to verify it when i read it. I was at half hp, used it and sword 3 on a single mob, even with the internal CD, no jade shards had been used.
EDIT : i look at some videos i took during the beta test, and saw that it worked even if, indeed, it used only 3 shards because of the internal cooldown, i wonder what went wrong when i did the test though…maybe a bug that’s worth some testing

Kicker.8203:

— Yeah I know resistance can be stripped but not every class can do that. Also you can dodge a lot of boon removes like necro signets which are pretty well telepgraphed and slow, mesmer shatters you have to be careful of too ofc and even if they manage to hit you with one it isn’t guaranteed they strip the right boon. You just have to reapply resistance not long before it ends(rather than stacking up a long duration) so that way you have enough energy to reapply it quickly even if they strip it.

Well to be honest without resistance, i’m afraid Mallyx can’t survive his own condis, gonna be hard to balance. The problem is Mallyx is the exact counter of any condition user by his design, taking advantage of ennemis condi.

Maybe the solution would be to have energy cost reflect the casting time of the skill, stalling your energy gain during the weapon skill, this way, using a weapon skill delay your energy gain for something else without punishing you too hard.
I felt hammer was quite good at this because of its long casting skills, if you spam you can’t do more than before you started spamming.

Yeah i guess i underestimated Assassin’s annihilation, i also forgot it goes threw toughness. Some people also said it added a lot of survivability to them so i guess i didn’t use it enough. You are right on this one ^^

Hammer 3 and 5 seems to be the real problem of this weapon. I like you idea of teleporting to destination, that’s nice.

I felt a big difference of killing power when i didn’t take Fury traits from invocation, guess it’s because of my playstyle. Plus Retribution’s access to protection is from dodging (2s duration) not even worth it, Retal is on hit, and seeing our survivability, we can’t afford to get hit too much.

Yeah, i used a too hard word for Shiro’s heal, it has its use, only the number are wrong, the base heal is too small and it doesn’t trigger on sword 3, wich would be your only way to burst heal as Shiro.

Resistance can be stripped, and i can assure you that it’s not funny when it happens xD
Someone in Pvp waited for my stacks of torments to be high enough and BOOM stripped, and it hurts a lot ^^
I agree with the displacmeent AoE, but it’s a bug imo, it shouldn’t ignore stability and the zone is maybe a bit too big.

That’s some nice things you add here, thanks a lot ^^

Sword 3 is a hard to balance skill.
We can balance it on many different aspects, depending on what we need the skill to be.

First we must see what are the pros and cons :

Pros :
multi hit attacks
little gap closer
potential hard hitting attack

Cons :
Obvious animation warning (though can be used with IO)
Animation lock → vulnerable
interruptable
relativly high cost (15 energy)

Some options we have :
More damages to make it a hard hitting skill, so no evade or invulnerability maybe 1 stability stack on each hit so you can still interrupt it but not stop it easily.

Evade frames and make it an evade skill more than a hitting skill, some sort of active emergency button. But this kind of skill shouldn’t hit too hard.

Reduce the animation time : same dps but in a smaller window of time, more subject to long lasting blocks and dodge rolls. (like Rapidfire)

i agree that thief/rev comparison isn’t good. Thief is supposed to burn a lot of init to spike the ennemy where Revenant build up energy on the long run. Actual problem is survivability on this long run.

Kidel.2057:

Griffith.7238:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Honestly I dont think removing the energy cost is a good idea. Having an energy cost means they can have impactful skills on shorter CDs (or they said something of the like in the first revenant reveal back when). I dont wanna be that guy but I think people are just plain outright playing Revenant wrong. I never had an issue with being out of energy for my weapon or heal skills. The ONLY time this has happened was right after using an upkeep skill (usually shiro’s, and honestly that skill’s energy drain needs to be toned down for what it does)

The problem is they said this yes ,but in reality our cds aren’t any lower then other classes when it comes to weapon skills and they still don’t do as much damage. Or have utility tied into them like Blinds, Evades, Etc.

Isn’t that resolved just by lowering energy cost on some skills and increasing the effectiveness of others? Why do you want to get rid of the class mechanic?
The only skill that should cost 0 energy is probably the healing one.

He doesn’t want to “get rid of it”. Only on weapon skills.

And i agree on heals with 0 energy. On the contrary of GW1 we can’t count on others for healing.

If they lowered energy costs on utilities, it would be fine too even with energy on ws.
As Kidel said, ws at worst delay you energy gain, they don’t really empty your bar.
Right now, too much skills be it weapon skills or utilities are too limited in what they do for the cost they have.

For exemple, Jalis Vengefull Hammers besides it’s buggy collisions, serves no purpose for defense, if they added some protection or retal on it, then i know why i would keep it’s upkeep cost, right now AoE damages is not something Revenant lacks.
Forced engagment cost as much as Jalis elite, i can’t see any justificaiton for it. Someone said it would be cool to divide the effect in Taunt first, then after taunt is over, the slow. That would be cool, but still doesn’t justify 50 energy.

We could detail every legends skills and see what everyone thinks of it’s effect/cost.

It was just an idea, not a good one sure, but an idea (No offense Griffith ^^)

If you used half the energy you spend criticising each other trying to propose different things we could give Roy even more possibilities.
Right now, it’s just i agree/i don’t and it’s not constructive or productive.

Let’s make it this way :
Tell wich case you want to explore and add suggestions. Keep your personnal taste aside and rise only real game breaking problems.

Case 1 : keep energy on weapons + CDs
Case 2 : CD’s only on weapons

In both cases, tell us how you would balance things, energy costs, cds and all. That would be interesting.

Kidel.2057:

Legendswap is not meant as a solution (my god, that’s dense), it’s the main class mechanic. They made legendswap the only fast source of energy so that you use it when you can’t use weaponskills anymore (and that’s why weaponskills have energy cost).
Having you unable to use weaponskill is a punishment policy for having used too many skills and/or no legendswap.

I agree that skills need a reduced cost, but if you’re unable to use the class mechanic then it’s your fault.

If energy is so easy to manage that you can camp a legend without legendswapping then it means that you have 10 utility skills (double compared to other classes) and you’re NOT paying any drawback for tham.

I do not agree with your vision of legend swap as a mecanic.
Utilites are here to adapt to situations, that’s the point of utility skill. The legend swapping was at first a way to switch from, for exemple, full offense to full defense, be it dps offense, condi offense, tanky defense, or support defense DURING the fight, not ooc.
Any gardian would be glad to have a full self defense build + a full burst build during a fight, that’s the point of Revenant.

Strangely, you find it unfair to have 10 ws +10 utilities (20), when :
Elementalist has 20 + 5 skills (25),
Engineer has 5 ws + 5 utilities + 5 beltskills (15~20~25 with kits depending on how much are used.)

Weapons are a different part of the equation, don’t forget at first we had no weapon swapping, that was our main drawback. The added weapon swap made more mess than people seem to think.
Plus you are considering that weapon skills and utilities share the same goal when it’s certainly not the case.
They added weapon swap because they did a mistake making weapons double the role legends have. Weapons should have been swiss knives because of the no weapon swap, but they designed it differently, because it was more fun and created the lack of versatility problem.

Mournilg.4870:

It would change the fact we can’t use weapon skills while at 0 energy and still be limited in our utility uses.

But you just need to legendswap to use weaponskills again, and it’s instant.
Remove cost on ws and there is no need to legendswap, that’s the point.
And if your legendswap is on cd and you used all your energy it means you managed poorly or you spammed a lot.

Mournilg.4870:

5 Phase traversal in a row means you sat on your energy for 10 seconds using only weapon skills. If an ennemy sees you keeping energy for a long time, he can easyly see what’s coming as he knows what is at you disposal.

Dude, he was replying to Griffith who wants 100 energy (ooc or on swap, can’t remember). You don’t need to build up for that, and that’s why it’s wrong.
[/quote]

I agree on this last point, didn’t see the 100 base energy request, my bad.
Though i wouldn’t mind a trait that gives 75 energy base as invocation mastertrait.
Revenant has no way to interact with energy right now.

I fail to see why weapons should be so tied to legend swaping (just a personnal opinion, no offense), Thief already have this mecanic with initiative.
Maybe adjusting some CDs and energy costs would be enough, a bit like ninjas in league of legends, they have low CDs and energy and they works well.

EDIT : Sorry this quoting system gets me mad xD

Loex.5104:

The only thing you would think about is when you stop your IO to keep enough energy to maybe evade backwards while you’ll spam your rotation.
WIthout the constant energy sink of the weaponskills our energy would regenerate so kitten fast the utils HAVE to get more expensive and nothing would change at all.

i mean without any cost changes it would be : "yay … 5 Phase Traversal in a row if i dont use IO "… great balance.

Revenant is the only heavy class with a more complex gameplay … and so shall it be

It would change the fact we can’t use weapon skills while at 0 energy and still be limited in our utility uses.

5 Phase traversal in a row means you sat on your energy for 10 seconds using only weapon skills. If an ennemy sees you keeping energy for a long time, he can easyly see what’s coming as he knows what is at you disposal.
A Shiro Rev not using IO? He is already close to me so no PT? he can keep his energy for only 2 things: emergency retreat or Jade winds (a long cast AOE with a big Green tell)
If you can’t see that, then you could be killed even by a Basilisk venom thief using heart seeker.
Plus if Revenant can keep such an insane pressure that he needs only weapon skills and no utility to kill an opponent, maybe it’s the weapon skill that must be changed

skowcia.8257:

Im sorry to break it for you guys, but energy is almost fine in current state is fine. Youre not supposed to spam everything off cd. The moment where you remove weapon energy you will be able to spam utility skills like riposting shadows and jade winds like no tomorrow which will lead to some serious cd and balance issues there. Weapon skills also at this point will get up espesially after added weapon swap. If you cant manage energy properly, just stop playing it. Maybe that class inst for you. Revenant is supposed to be a complex class like engi and ele.

Again, the energy gain speed and decay speed, as much as utility energy costs can be tweaked.
Personnaly, i don’t feel comfortable with energy on weapons because it’s too much like Thief initiative wich i’d rather let to thieves. Being able to use many times the same utility is already different enough for me.

The problem is, Only Roy can take a decision about that because it is him wich can decide where he wants the revenant to be.

I’m not against keeping energy on weapons, maybe some tweaks could do the trick and i’d be fine with it, i’m just giving other suggestions and why i defend them.

If people have ideas how we can give legend a more unique feel, i’d be glad to discuss it.
If i can be proved wrong on things i stated it would be cool also.
Finding ideas and solution is an itterative process, the more paticipants, the better ^^

The problem is, Ventari as it stand is a niche legend only usable on big events where you can stand behind.
Jalis skills are buggy or useless. VH bugs in any non-flat ground and adds no defensive effect, FE is too costy and it’s effect is average at best, the road needs 2 seconds to trigger the stability, and the elite is an hyper long casting glorified protection used only for it’s stun break, some people even cancel it right after cast to use only the stun break…
Shiro’s utility compete too much with offensive weapon skills
The only legend imo that is well done is Mallyx, it has a clear role as a condi manager and boon striper, boon associated (resistance), clear condis (torment, confusion).

Other legends are all lacking something.

We can’t get happy with no customisation while Legends are in a state where they can’t have a clear role and a good energy managment flow.
Many people already pointed the low number of choices we can do as a Revenant, and the current legends utilites are certainly not making up for it.

Kidel.2057:

Revenant = legendswap. That’s the class mechanic. It’s like F1 for necro.
I’ve seen a lot of topics trying to change that to make revenant like other classes (customizable utility skills, no energy on weaponskills and so on).
Those are other classes. If you want to improve revenant just try not to change the only different thing it has.

Customizable utility skill would be great, at least you would have to choose 3 out of 4 for a given legend that match you playstyle and tastes.
It’s not a problem of “making rev like the other classes”, it’s making Revenant a GW2 class and not a MOBA class.

Shiro’s heal is supposed to be an offensive heal (probably to trigger Fierce infusion)
I didn’t check but i read sword 3 does not even trigger it…. so i don’t see the point because it would be the only way to “burst” heal while on Shiro stance.

Well, maybe it was my imagination, or maybe because ennemies where toned down so hard the skill felt stronger.
Still today, this skill gives nothing interesting beside the stun break. Can’t be an emergency button because of the cast time and 50% direct damage reduction isn’t that good.
It would be if we had a trait like Shiro and Mallyx that makes you get Protection on dwarf stance skill use, 33%+ 50%, now that can be good ^^

Killyox.3950:

Griffith.7238:

Don’t forget the ulty that takes so long to get off that the enemy team should /forfeit if they let you do so.

Elite itself is actually pretty awesome. Stun breaker and 5s worth of -50% dmg taken for the team. That’s huge.
Problem is that it doesn’t benefit the rev much when he’s just by himself. Maybe if the cast was 1 second then it would be very good. Would help survive spike. Also maybe if cost was ~40.

Remember the first tests when it was a 100% damage reduction and faster to cast?

I agree with Griffith, right now, i feel it really unfair for revenant to have to choose between weapon skills and utilities when no other class has to.
Only Thief has a system wich could look like this one, but the initiative apply only to weapon skills, wich make them choose if they want to use multiple different weapon skills or spam one, and let them free to use utilities when they need to.
Besides, putting only energy and no CD on weapon makes us Thief 2.0 but worst than them because of utility energy limitation.

3rd solution would be hard balancing work, so personnaly i prefere #2, we are playing GW2 after all, why would it be so bad to have the core weapon class mecanic?

You are right Seraphis, right now, only Mallyx is good in PvP.
Ventari makes you a major target, a big problem for a class that lacks self defense.
Shiro is squishy and has trouble using utilities to burst because you must choose between offense and defense to have energy to react.
Jallis isn’t tanky enough to buy you time to wait for your next assault as Shiro and Mallyx doesn’t really need to buy time.

“That would give you the functional versatility to being able to change weapons in combat, without giving the full versatility of a chain-swapping class.”

I see what you mean, but i think it would be unfair to limit the weapon swapping spamming of revenant when all other classes do not have this type of limitation.
They shouldn’t have a double ressource cost for one thing.

Look at thieves :
The have initiative to fuel their attacks
No CDs
the risk : spamming too much deplete their initiative leaving them with no attacks beside auto (they can act against that with their trait, thing that Revenant can’t do with energy)
BUT they can rely on their utilities to give them time to make for it

Now Revenant :
CDs on attacks (quite low ones but still)
energy on attacks (which make weapon skills compete with utilities for the same ressource)
the risk : beeing out of energy, leaving you with auto only or forcing you to swap to get back 50 and forcing utility change.
That wouldn’t be a problem if utilites were not locked as it is now

Right now, energy is not something we need to manage, it’s a double limitation on everything.