Guild Wars 2

So i decided to do some actual testing with P/P set and see how it went. TBH i was quite surprised, it wasnt quite as weak as i was expecting it to be. The DPS wasnt astonishing but by no means did i find it weak. I also found that the initiative use wasn’t too horrible, by that i mean i was constantly at low initiative but it wasnt too long before i could cast unload again and the only reason I’ll complain about that is just because unload is such a significant portion of the DPS.

My only real disappointment with the set was that with the trait investment needed, i had no room to invest any points in dodge and it felt like i was face tanking mobs the whole time which was kind of annoying considering this is a ranged set.

TBH i dont think the set needs too much work to be usuable as a main set. Personally i think any one of the following would make it a worthwhile set.
1. Add an evade or teleport to Unload so your not face tanking with a ranged set.
2. Lower the resource cost of Unload to 4.
3. Increase the dmg of vital shot.
4. Add some sort of movement impairing effect so again your not facetanking.

Bkkills.2174:

Do you guys think a venom share build would work?? I’m thinking 6/0/6/0/4

Trust me, I’ve tried… venomshare is not a good build. And trust me I’ve tried.
Venomshare doesnt bring enough to the table to make it a worthwhile build. It does 2 things and although it does them well, it really has nothing else to offer. It has pretty good healing capabilities and very high sustain but other then that you have nothing to offer to the party and by doing so you completely forsake any reasonable dps.

Suppose you could go S/P and blind spam+autoatk but again, next to no dmg.

The problem with P/P isnt unload. I’d say dps wise unload is in a very good place. It would probably be close to on par with pistol whip… and its ranged.

The problem with P/P is the fact that your main atk is weak and the set offers no utility.

Everyone thinks Pistol whip is pretty awesome dps but in reality its only around a 10-20% increase in dps compared to normal atk. Unload on the other had, your looking at probably close to a double if not more increase in DPS.

IMO initiative should be readjusted for the P/P set so it isnt as initatiave starved and i think then it would be in a more balanced place. If unload was more spamable, the dps would be more comparable to the melee sets but instead of stealth, utility and evade you just have range.

Volrath.1473:

Saturn.6591:

A former RO-player! =0

Well then, have fun with your break. Maybe you’ll miss GW2 soon and come back.

Oh and also, I’m not sure but… aren’t such topics against the forum rules?

yeah they are but the office is closed and ppl are at home, the last thing thay wanna do is log on the forum xD

It will probably be deleted next year though

I honestly doubt they even read the thief forums. We are the red headed step childs of GW2 that they wish they kept locked up in the basement.

edit: I’m curious as to what rule i’m breaking? Skimmed through the code of conduct and didnt see anything.

@Herzblut, if your happy with the state of the game, then great. I personally think they have a lot of work to do with balancing. I’ll be keeping an eye out because this was my 2nd favourite game, after ragnarok online so if the make things more interesting again i’ll come back.

And personally i find sPvP to be boring. I feel no emotional attachment or excitement from playing it. In other games i could feel the adrenaline from an intense fight. Here i feel absolutely nothing. Maybe its because the matches are too quick, too random and too frequent for me to form any rivalries or respect for other players. I just dont find myself challenged like i was in other games and honestly i’m not even that good at pvp here so that leaves alot of room for improvement. I just dont feel any reason to.

I’m not complaining about the grind to get ascended gear, I’ve played alot more grinding/time consuming games then this. Its just the fact that their original philosophy was the exact opposite. Atleast how i remember it, they were opposed to forcing ppl to grind for any advantage in game play, those who had time to grind had the cooler looking armor and weapons but no advantage over the casual player.

And anyone who says there’s anything close to class balance in PvE has got to be kidding. During my numerous dungeon runs i have, not had 1 necro in my party, had the rare engi, ranger or ele, thiefs a bit more commonly and nearly 90% of them were either guardian, warrior or mesmer. Mesmer being at the bottom of the list but still quite common. There is a clear distinction if classes performance in pve and anyone trying to argue that point is just trolling.

Forgot no one reads if its more then a line.

Balance sucks so taking a break.

or change it to reset the cooldown on blinding powder or deception skills.

Just going to say, for starters since you are using hidden killer CD/Power is more important then your EFP. You want your backstab to hit as hard as possible.

I made a post about a good dungeon dps build.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Think-Thief-is-too-hard

Oghier.7419:

I like the build, but I just find it impossible not to run 30 SA. Heck, I’d run 40 SA if I could, as you get 1) Easy condition removal, 2) AoE blind, 3) Perma Regen, 4) Decent Healing while stealthed or.. other good stuff. Note, my focus is WvW and overland PvE.

The SA traits are just too good

Yeah i agree SA has some awesome traits but most of the good ones are available with only a 10point investment, you just have to pick and choose depending on the situation.
That being said, the reason i went 30 into acrobatics instead of SA was solely bc the extra defence of SA lead to me taking aggro alot more often where as with acrobatics i rarely take aggro. Not having to tank bosses meant i could survive alot longer.
For overland PvE this probably wouldnt be a problem but in dungeons i just couldnt sustain with the extra dmg.

By no means is this meant to be a tanky thief. I was just trying to find a build that can maintain good DPS but not go down after a mistake or two. I’ve been running this build through CoF, previously in a 25/30 build i was getting downed several times a run, with this build i rarely get downed and thats usually bc i’m trying to ress an ally.

I find the 10points in shadow arts to be a real bonus myself. Condition removal every 3 seconds or near perm regeneration or if i dont need either of those i can use infusion with shadows and keep full intiative.

Ever since i started playing d/d i’ve feel in love with blinding powder, it has no cast time so can be used while stunned/kd or ressing an ally. I use it as a pseudo stun breaker i suppose you can say. Also to trigger my shadow art trait if i’m not in range for CnD or using long bow.

Also I’m not a fan of withdraw myself, i much prefer SoM but the healing is better with withdraw and you cant ignore the condition removal as well. I just hate how long the dodge roll is and the annoyance of running back to melee range.

PVE Thief Build

Do you have a slow computer or high ping?
Are you always getting downed?
Or just want something with a bit of room to breath.
After spending a bunch of time playing on calculators and doing dungeon runs ingame I came up with the 0/30/10/30/0 build.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoYlYmiPXcS4E95Ey2jdqC5JuCOV3jsS+0KA-jUBBYfBM3sIasFXFRjVXDT5iIqGA-w

This build maintains around 80% of the DPS of the meta 25/30/0/0/15 build with a whooping boost of nearly double eHP, assuming they werent using practiced tolerance. Also has bonus heals from Assassin’s Reward for better sustain.

Why not 30 points in shadow arts? On paper it offers better heals and over all better sustain through access to perm regeneration and a larger heal during stealth via Shadow’s Rejuvation. I ran 10/30/30/0/0 for awhile and i found that because of aggro mechanics and due to the fact that 3 things affect aggro; range, dmg and toughness, the added toughness meant that i almost always had aggro and i just didnt have enough healing to stay alive.

30points in Critical Strikes
This actually accounts for a bulk of the DPS in any thief build. Just 30points in critical strikes puts you at about 30% less dps then the optimal DPS build of 30/30/0/0/10. It also has alot of useful traits.

10points in Shadow Arts
This is a gem. It allows you to choose between
1. Infusion with shadows
2. Shadow Protector
3. Shadow’s Embrace

30points in Acrobatics
Assassin’s Reward doesnt offer alot of passive healing, but its passive healing non the least. You also get feline grace, near perm swiftness(depending on the circumstances) and a nice 10% increase to dps when your endurance isnt full(and how often is it?). As i said before, in PvE i found a slight DPS boost and i rarely found myself going down compared to the 10/30/30/0/0 build.

Other Notes:
You can easily swap out Valkyrie Armor for Berserker. It would add a bit more then 5% DPS to the build.

This isnt some super OP build or a build i would advise to a player that currently has no problems running a glass cannon build. This is for players that want to play thief and feel they are too squishy and go down to often. I tried to find a build that can still maintain dps without going down so easily. A dead player does no DPS.

Hope this build helps some players.

Zoid.2568:

Yeah i would use it in Dungeons/Fractals/WvWvW. Maybe Team Arena.
It seems tanky and supportish.

Its very tanky, i had a mix of dire/settler and shaman’s. But i found when puging that i always ended up with another healer or atleast pseudo healer in the party meaning instead of dishing out DPS i was healing ppl that didnt really need to be healed.

Never the less its a really fun build and if it was more viable i’d definitely run it over the typical serker set. If you can get in a role as a designated healer for your party then its a good build others your basically a waste of a party member.

Zoid.2568:

MyCondolences.8172:

I ran venomshare in pve for a bit and found it works something like this.
The worst your party is, the better the spec is and vice versa.
Its amazing sustain and adds a good amount of party heals but the dmg is meh at best. If the party is doing fine then really its just a loss in DPS.

You can lay down smoke screens and such. Depends on what weapons and combinations you use.

You can just as easily use them in a DPS build. You actually have more free slots for utilities although you probably wouldnt mind wasting the initiative as much if you were aiming for DPS.

Depths.4051:

Condolences, that “heal up pretty fast” requires 3 skills because I’m using blast finishers, and the fact my heals are effect is because i have an hp pool of 16k flat. my heals would be much less effective if I was using just the healing turret itself for 5k, I get an extra 4-5k from the 3 blast finishers, my blast finishers have to not be on cd though otherwise I could get something like 5k +1.3k from 1 blast finisher. If you srsly screw up, you can get only 2.5k if you blast the turret before it uses healing field xD. If I was using my elixir heal thats just like 5.5k for 25s cd. Not that nice… also those blast finishers are good for other things, so unfortunately I can’t always save them just for heals. Like Id probably need to reflect that pistol bullet barrage, so its not always possible to do the blast finishers.
If you did get more buffed, I don’t think it’d stop thieves from running when a battle was turning for the worse.

Wait wait wait wait wait!!!!! Engi is complaining about thiefs.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/What-class-gives-you-most-trouble/

edit: Also
“also those blast finishers are good for other things” I know its coming, but they havent nerfed the stunbreak on shadowstep yet.

frans.8092:

Depths.4051:

… im saying a small “arena” this implies that you have a nice bit of space, not enough to ooc, but a nice amount which you can’t run out of. …

If they run away and go out-of-combat and heal up, so do you.

Love how people complain about how thieves can stealth and get OOC when you have people making comments like “I can get back stabbed down to 25% hp pretty much instantly by a thief….. I heal up pretty fast” which basically means they can accomplish the same thing as thieves(essentially restarting the fight) but dont even need to flee to do so.

As i said thieve’s need buffs. Give thieves better heals and i bet we wont go running off with your tail between our legs.

I ran venomshare in pve for a bit and found it works something like this.
The worst your party is, the better the spec is and vice versa.
Its amazing sustain and adds a good amount of party heals but the dmg is meh at best. If the party is doing fine then really its just a loss in DPS.

Depths.4051:

MyCondolences.8172:

I think this topic proves thieves need to be buffed.

So basically thieve’s have been pigeon holed into 1 type of build bc we are lackluster at everything else. And it has been commented that other classes can be traited for similar mobility, have higher range then any of our teleports but obviously thieve’s arent a big enough of a threat to the general populace to build your character to counter and there is where the problem lies.

Basically your saying i dont want to sacrifice DPS/sustain/whatever to deal with thieves so nerf them instead.

^ah.. lol? srsly, no. I can get back stabbed down to 25% hp pretty much instantly by a thief, I’m medium armor with toughness as a secondary. I heal up pretty fast and knockback doing so, then if they start trying to spam I block and stun then apply conditions. Next thing I know they invis, I start spamming aoe, then I’m ooc. This battle scenario is pretty much how majority go. It’s all about the surprise with the first burst, then if thing’s don’t go right, they’re gone. You haven’t been reading my post if you think I want them nerfed. I want a mechanic to stop them from running that doesn’t involve nerfing at all.

Was waiting for you to say “then I’m downed” but instead they just fled. So in other words this OP thief build couldnt kill ya. What class are you so i can cry nerfs!!!

I think this topic proves thieves need to be buffed.

So basically thieve’s have been pigeon holed into 1 type of build bc we are lackluster at everything else. And it has been commented that other classes can be traited for similar mobility, have higher range then any of our teleports but obviously thieve’s arent a big enough of a threat to the general populace to build your character to counter and there is where the problem lies.

Basically your saying i dont want to sacrifice DPS/sustain/whatever to deal with thieves so nerf them instead.

IMO Thiefs need more offensive defensives. By this i mean more access to conditions that increase thiefs survivability.
eg.
Single target near “perm blind”(applies blind 1/sec over 5sec)
Mass confusion stack for short duration
Weaken (not through poison)

I’m curious to what people would think about removing stealth finishers and rebalancing thief.

Travlane.5948:

its about 15% less dmg or so.

According to my calculations if both are equally equipped with same signets its about a 20% loss in DPS.
But putting 10 points in acrobatics allows near perm swiftness, which means you can use scholar runes and free up a skill slot by dropping signet of shadows without feeling like a snail.

I’m actually planning on making a detailed post for this build. Its a great build for people who cant run the meta build. Personally I cant run the meta build, i get downed every 5seconds.

Well atm going full serkers in a 0/30/10/30/0 build and so far really liking the build. The loss in DPS is hardly noticable. Its nearly the same DPS as running 25/30/0/0/15 without prec/power signets. I’ve noticed a huge boost in survivability, i go down alot less even without using life steal food.

@Incurafy, i’ve already done the maths and have decided hidden killer is only really useful for PvP. Its great for a guaranteed crit but generally speaking is an over all DPS loss.

Backstab chained perfectly accounts for 43% of your DPS, but without infusion in shadows that is impossible.
As stated above with 107% CD, 50% crit is the point where executioner begins to out dps hidden killer. Having less crit dmg, not using infusion with shadows, using any other skill besides CnD/backstab favours executioner.

That being said, i think it would be good discussion to find a happy middle between DPS and EHP. And seeing that it is quite hard for thiefs to hit 100% crit, any defencive gearing will directly affect DPS.

P/P drain initiative way to fast to be useful in PvE for a main weapon. Its better ranged DPS then shortbow but leaves you with little initiative to play with and no utilities(eg teleport and evade).

Travlane, are you using the instant ground targeting option? If not use that.
Also find a smaller zerg, the window you have way to small for any class/build/dps to get any significant amount of hits.

Just hopped into HoTM, was doing roughly 10k backstabs with scholar runes/no sigils.
58% CD, must have had executioner on when i hit 12k.

edit: with 20 might stacks on.

When i was testing in HoTM i ran a 30/30/0/0/10 signet build. With 50 odd % crit dmg i hit the heavy golem for 12k with this build. If you factor in ascended dagger and another 50+% CD 14k doesnt seem unreasonable even against high armor target.

Is also possible if they stunned you to add another 20% dmg on top of that with sigils of impact.

ATM i think i’m going to go
Serker Jewelry/back
Serker Armor
Valkyrie Daggers

Way i’m looking at it atm is that using Valkyrie over Berserker daggers is less of a crit loss then not running Signet of Agility and since I’m running Signet of Agility i’ll stay around the same crit as other builds.

edit: Also weapons are easier to craft then a full set of armor.

Well i did the maths. With 107% crit dmg at 50% crit chance, executioner does more DPS then hidden killer. Although hidden killer guarantees your chance for a successful crit on backstab. Use of hidden killer seems to be more suited for PvP rather then PvE so I wont be using it in PvE.

Also more defensive builds would make better use of scholar runes. It’s active at 90%+ hp, with 10k hp, that means you can only lose 1k hp b4 its inactive but with 20k hp, you could lose 2k hp. Defence would reduce dmg, keep you in the 90% hp range longer and healing power would help regen that hp. For example your not losing 50% of 20k hp, your losing 10k hp which would mean a serker build would also lose 10k hp(discounting def ofc)

Anyways, I’m going to play around with a 0/30/10/30/0 build and see how it goes.

Thinking of running a build like this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlcmiPHcy4E95Ey2jdqCJKuCOV3jsS+0KA-jUCBYfBE/LyEEQ5mFRjt4qIas6aYqSJV5SQ2bIpBBYO-w
Full serkers its about a 20% loss in DPS compared to meta, but i get alot more dodge, condition removal, ehp and healing. I’ll have to do some testing and see how it goes.

I need to do some tests on hidden killer though. I’ll probably get around to that later though.

edit: Ok so it seems that with 107% crit dmg, 49% crit is the cut off. If you have 50% or higher crit, executioner is better DPS, if your under go hidden killer. Less crit dmg favours executioner.

use transmutation crystals.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transmutation_Crystal

reserved for future testing.

I decided to test out different builds and took note of the backstab dmg. If applicible i chose Dagger Training or Flanking Strikes and left the rest of the skills blank. These tests were done with berserker ammy and no runes or signets. I also didnt use any optional traits that trigger boons or conditions(such as sundering strikes) so this is raw dmg. Hopefully this can help people decide on a build more easily.

If you have any other builds you want me to compare, post em and i’ll do the same thing.

Bracket(Highest recorded dmg)
1: %DPS increase from only have 30points in CS
2: %DPS loss compared to highest dmg build(30/30/0/0/10)

0/30/0/0/0 3.6-3.7k [0%] [30%]
30/30/0/0/10 5.0-5.3k [43%] [0%]
25/30/0/0/15 4.50-5.2k [40.5%] [2%]
15/30/0/0/25 4.6-4.9k [32.4%] [7.5%]
10/30/30/0/0 4.0-4.35k (4might stacks) [17.5%] [18%]
25/30/0/15/0 4.7-4.95k [33.7%] [6.6%]
15/30/0/25/0 4.2-4.5k (Not full endurance) [21%] [15%]
10/30/0/30/0 4.1-4.3k (Not full endurance) [16%] [19%]
0/30/10/30/0 3.9-4.15k (not full endurance) [12%] [21.7%]
30/30/10/0/0 4.9-5.15k [39.1%] [2.9%]

TY Dee Jay, well constructed post. I might play around with my build though. Looks like I’m going to be heading to HoTM later. Thinking that maybe adding some points in acrobatics might have some better returns. That way i can use Assassins Retreat with scholar runes and get some extra dmg with signet.

edit: thinking of swapping from 10/30/30/0/0 to 0/30/10/30/0. Should be an over all DPS and ehp boost.

I usually run PvE but i seem to be constantly taking aggro on bosses and although i can dodge their bigger atks, if i’m taking the grunt of their basic atks my hp withers quickly.

Valkyrie with hidden killer vs Berserker with Executioner.
I’m just curious on peoples opinions of the 2 armor sets.
Basically comes down to dmg vs ehp.

Anyone done the maths and found a good balance for ehp and dmg?

Basically put 30 in critical hits. Thats the bulk of your dmg there. The other 40points wont make a drastic difference in your dmg output.
Deadly arts for more dmg
Shadow arts for stealth
Acrobatics is for hp and hp regen
Trickery adds nearly as much dmg as deadly arts but adds some bonuses to steal

Typical DPS build is 25/30/0/0/15. I’m currently running 10/30/30/0/0 because i like the added condi cleanse/hp regen and regeneration buff every time i used CnD.

Personally i wouldnt mind seeing an easy mode for dungeons with another set of rewards.
TBH dungeons are designed for lvl80 characters and rewarded according.

On the other hand getting lvl80 in GW2 can be accomplished in 2-3 days of moderate playing, a week at most with almost 0 gold investment.

@Travlane, With zergs that big it all comes down to timing and dumb luck really. I’m sure some of those players throwing down fields wont tag aswell. Fields usually dmg once/sec. If mobs are dying too fast for you to even get a cluster bomb off b4 they’re dead odds are other ppl arent tagging aswell. Anyways as you said its a large zerg, you cant expect everyone to tag every mob.

throw gunk does dmg and your other 2 apply conditions.
Stealth is broken if you do any physical dmg.

Dahkeus.8243:

T
P.s. stand close. Thieves have the most mobility of any class, so it shouldn’t be hard to get near enemies first. If you’re lobbing a cluster at max range, don’t expect to hit much. Pop it off like a shotgun at close range.

Basically this.
Just max out dps and use traveler runes/signet/swiftness. Spam 1 and tab while running to mobs and spam cluster bomb at point blank. SB is more effective the closer you are to your targets. Generally i just run through and spam 2.

Interceptor.2653:

stinkypants.8419:

Where do you get your damage from in a 30 acro build… what is your build?

10 DA and 30 CS. S/P, revolves around various on-crit effects. It’s enough to go to war with, generally.

Pretty much all you need is 30points in CS and you can do whatever you want with the remaining points and still do good DPS in a PvP environment.

In HoTM
Max backstab dmg i saw (tested a week or so ago so not sure how accurate these numbers are but can be used as a rough estimate)
30/30/0/0/10 8.3k
25/30/0/0/15 8.1k
15/30/0/0/25 7.7k
10/30/30/0/0 7.0k

The Game Slayer.7632:

Elthurien.8356:

The Game Slayer.7632:

MyCondolences.8172:

Think it should be changed to
Cooldown: whatever
Triggers: any CC
Effect: Breaks stun, 3 seconds mist form.

This way it stays true to its name and instead of a random teleport gives the player a chance to reposition themselves or escape combat.

so long as the next patch eles can get stealth, im fine with this.

rangers and mesmers already do, why not elementalists. then guardians and warriors too. Longbow rangers stealth more often than I do

i was specifically referring to how he said mist form. Thats like asking for shadow refuge on an ele. i guess i shouldve changed my words.

So long as eles get shadow refuge, im fine with the next patch.

Mist form is also obtainable from a rune set with a similar principle. Triggers at 10% hp rather then CC.
And i was using it as a guideline as for what i think the trait should act like. Same deal as saying "dodge for 2seconds "which i’m assuming you can control which direction so wouldn’t be much the same as mist form.
Mist form breaks CC, increases movement speed, causes caster to be invulnerable while still being seen. That last point was a major factor since i thought stealth would be OP or annoying if revealed debuffed.
Change the name or whatever but i think the mechanics are perfect for what Hard to Catch is trying to accomplish. It would give thiefs a sort of “teleport” ,without adding additional buttons, that they could control.

I’m taking this as a challenge and going to try to create a spvp build that only uses shortbows and see how it goes.

But the way shortbow is designed is the problem. Shortbow seems to be optimized for short rage AoE and that in itself is the problem, there isnt many situations especially in pvp where you’ll find that to be the best course of action.
I only thing i can think of that would make shortbow a more viable dps weapon would be by removing detonate from cluster bomb. I honestly think any drastic enough change to the speed of cluster bomb to make shortbow worthy for mainhand DPS would make it overpowered.

@panicbutton,
let me ask this, how many thieve’s dont carry shortbow?

Might not be the main weapon choice for thieves, but i’d say that nearly every thief runs with one in their secondary slot.

Think it should be changed to
Cooldown: whatever
Triggers: any CC
Effect: Breaks stun, 3 seconds mist form.

This way it stays true to its name and instead of a random teleport gives the player a chance to reposition themselves or escape combat.

Already made a post on the change to AR.
To recap,
Only build i can think of that stacks any healing power would be venomshare, which already requires 60 points to optimize. Taking points out of deadly arts to put into acrobatics instead, would equate to about +700hp/min compared to full venomshare at the sacrifice of about 6k HP to allies/min.
HtC is trash.

edit: link incase you want to read it.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Acrobatics-changes-make-no-sense/first#post3355225