Guild Wars 2

Gulesave.5073:

As the devs have repeated every time they talk about this preview, including in the opening post of this thread: This is NOT everything. These are just some examples.

Indeed, and this thread is made up largely of feedback to the things they can talk about now and not the items they haven’t revealed yet. Feedback was asked for, and it has been given.

One of our goals with the past few balance updates has been to add counterplay to various skills that lacked telegraphs. With necromancer, we’re changing the way that Dhuumfire is activated – allowing players the opportunity to react. This will also allow the necromancer to carefully plan their burning application.

Hmm thats almost a clever sell but I’m not buying it.

Carefully planning my burning application? Actually I want to apply it all the time, as easily as possible and control it. In this case I get to add it far too infrequently in the wrong place and the wrong time. Plus…

Allowing players the opportunity to react. I understand that PVP players want more skills telegraphed, I can see that for stuns etc it make sense because encounter changing skills like a stun etc SHOULD have an opportunity to react if you have the reflexes. Putting dhuumfire on DS isn’t just telgraphing we are going to be adding burning, it might as well be sending them an in game email – they will have time to open up the mail, read it, switch back to game and STILL easily dodge the slow moving projectile. That is always assuming that anyone would use their dodge just to avoid the lacklustre results – I mean if it was only a necro on me then maybe, but if there was any other class with CC I’d rather save it for that (especially considering the changes to vigor). In fact with torment and burning in DS any unskilled player is just going to save any cleanse of conditions till we’ve used our DS rotation. It is handholding of the highest order that I’ve ever seen in any MMO.

As others have said – this change takes a grandmaster trait and makes it worthless, it should be adept at best and likely is in the wrong tree as well. You know I’d live with it though if the other GM trait in Spite wasn’t equally as uninspiring and just a copy/paste of any other class trait. How about a GM trait that wells apply torment per tick? I mean anything creative would be nice and making it worthwhile to put that 30 points in spite would be a bonus too.

I don’t think most necros really care about burning that much, maybe in PvP they do but that is a tiny subset of the game. The one really good suggestion on here was making it torment instead (and losing the DS aspect) because that would make up for a lack of stability and the fact we are forced to see out encounters. Thiefs having easier access to Torment is a strange choice but let’s not open that can of worms.

Finally: necros have had constant chipping away at other aspects since dhuumfire was introduced to try and placate the PvP howls but I don’t see any of those changes being reversed. Introduce this change the class will be right back where it started: useless/unwanted in PvE, slightly above ranger in WvWvW. Or is that the intention?

No thanks to season 2, not unless/until there is some kind of pro-active work done on balancing the WvWvW population and increasing the rewards. I think you would find season 2 would largely be received with an underwelming “meh” by most of the core WvWvW players for those two reasons. Season1 was just “which server is most populated and hence will be above others who do not have the same level of population” and season 2 right now would be the same except just not as intense.

I’d like to also know why there are so many ledges to be pushed off in EoTM, are Anet planning to give any stability to Necros or unless we can party with a stability buffing class we might as well stay out?

There are two main issues which need addressing as I see it, and personally I see it in this order:

1. Fix Queues

There is nothing more frustrating than sitting in a WvWvW queue. It has multiple problems – specificallly:

• those that do it most only want to WvWvW
• we can’t level up other characters while we wait because we want to go in on our main WvWvW character (alts and WXP another topic, right?)
• the queues don’t work so sometimes I get in within seconds while a guild mate has been queued for hours
• we can only queue for one BL at a time
• we have no idea what the queues are like

So I would like to see:

• Priority: The queues fixed so it takes people in the order they queued
• Priority: The ability to see a breakdown per BL of how busy each queue is and an estimated wait time (done so well in other games)
• Wish list – ability to queue for multiple BLs
• Wish list – ability to swap chars without leaving WvWvW (it is so alt unfriendly with WXP already, long queues just make it more so)

2. Fix Population/Server Imbalance

OK so we now how this goes now, there is nothing new here and nothing hinted at that would solve this. I don’t feel I need to write out what the problems are because everyone knows them. Possible solutions:

• Server Alliances. Ally servers (as many as six) to colors dramatically reducing the number of WvWvW servers. Allows lower tiered servers to group up and compete against (for example) the top 3 in NA. Could also help with night coverage as well if done right and can be varied whenever required to take account of population shifts.
• Make server transfer costs dependant on WvWvW rank, quite frankly I don’t know why a PvE only player would transfer anyway – just quest.
• Encourage guilds to move to lower rank WvWvW servers (less gold or no cost at all, add feature to lower tiered servers only where they can retain guild bank and status etc).
• Get rid of leagues until you have a proper system implemented, the leagues are just making an already severe problem worse.
• Increase rewards for WvWvW, I don’t believe lower tier servers have a lower population in total just that WvWvW is not their game type or WvWvW is far less profitable (and has less access to mats, ascended items and is far less lucrative for gold than a champ run).
• Introduce unique items for WvWvW like skins (yup, dungeons have them) and other goodies that people will want to get and these items should not be linked to “winning” or dominating the tier.

See, not a single kitten in there. Oh wait…

Feydra.6318:

Two really fun battles today, first was the loooong, battle for SoRs fully upgraded Bay in TCbl, it started out as a three way, and then some of us started going, mhe we cant take that from SoR, so lets avoid BG, maybe they can take it and then it will be paper lol, so in all the insane battles that rages back and fourth, i think there was some kind of we dont shoot you BGs if you dont shoot us, inside Bay as long as it gets burned down lol, sorry SoR, i hope you understand, great defence from you guys nd you still held it when i logged !

in any case thanks for fun fights and lots of lag !

I think we noticed the erm… “short term alliance” of TC and BG in Bay. That was a fun few hours. Bay was Swiss cheese, enemies on all sides, flanks/counters/siege/death/destruction everywhere you looked. Whoever was spamming the cows at our waypoint in bay as people came back with supply from camp was seriously annoying

Massive props to Hel and FEAR for the defence, if it wasn’t for the lag (even skill 1 working was a lottery in the final showdown) it would have been even more fun.

1. Population/world/server imbalance
2. WXP being character bound/alt unfriendly system
3. Reducing zerging (not more siege please or any more siege buffs)

selan.8354:

well, if they have all the numbers,why not try to implement alliances for the leagues. the leagues will be complete nonsense, because we all know the outcome of every match up.

having alliances, that balances the matchups for the league would actually make wvw competitive and bring fresh air. tier 1 servers are too stacked atm, so the only way out for all other tiers is balance population with alliances.

We might not know the outcome of every match up because people haven’t really been transferring to other servers seriously yet. I imagine there is a bit of saving up for the gems to do for some guilds and other guilds will be waiting to see where some guilds go to. No doubt it will all be very last minute.

I agree in principle though, unless 10 large NA guilds and 3 or 4 large EU/Sea guilds are planning on transferring to TC I doubt we will see much variation at all in NA.

I’m sure Anet have stats on average numbers through different times of the day, would it be too much to ask to have alliances in some way taking in to account the numbers and the times they are playing?

Otherwise you might just as well start everyone from 0 ranking. By the time the league comes around everyone will have moved and most of the current rankings will be worthless. Simply forget the league idea and put in the achievements, I think that is mainly what this update is for anyway – I doubt most will lost sleep over a custom finished. This is WvW after all, not PVE.

Banzie.5248:

Wait for it… RANDOM PLOT TWIST, All the oceanic & EU guilds xfer to SoS and just hold everything all day and night.

Top tier already has oceanic and EU coverage sewn up though.

I really like this idea. It wouldn’t help with 24/7 coverage most likely but at least it would help with the numbers and at least prime time would be more evenly matched and much more entertaining. I suspect Devon et al though are thinking that the leagues will be a way to pull the ones who never play or rarely play WvW in to that part of the game. I don’t think it will work though.

Just look at the NA matchup between 2, 4 and 8 servers this week – SoR have been ticking 400-500 pretty much consistently.

Come to think of it, when they changed to random matchups didn’t we end up on odd servers with other servers? I can’t believe it would be hard to do from a technical standpoint either, just reconfig what servers are on what shards (or whatever tech they use).

As most have said – it comes down to thief and warrior. While it is technically possible for the thief to be the fastest it isn’t a great build they are running for WvW. Warrior on the other hand is generally taking skill sets that are extremely useful in WvW anyway – bulls rush, s/wh and gs, perma swiftness is easy to get too. The rotation is super easy as well and if the ground is uneven savage leap always works, inf arrow is tricky at best sometimes and the distance gain be poor if you aren’t perfect with it.

If you are running away from one of these two in WvW most likely it is the warrior you DON’T want to catch you, the thief has blown a lot of important skills/ini and warrior will most likely have leg specialist so you are proper kittened

Same is true if you are chasing someone – you probably want to be on the warrior, regardless of who is technically fastest across ground.

Fuming over cluster bomb range. Basically the only thing I can use to hit someone on a wall (or from a wall). Useless now. Can’t understand the thinking behind it at all, must be some abuse in kittening PVP or something. Really want a response from a dev on this one.

That stupid kittening trait needs to move from 5 to 10 where we can choose if we want to kill ourselves by taking it.

But personally I think the worst change was shortbow range to 900. Now the only class without 1200 range on anything (except underwater). kittened.

Nice. Thanks for supporting the game, it is your money after all – if it makes you happy then go for it. I wouldn’t want to think how much I’ve spent in the gem store and I don’t have any legandaries to show for it!

Not sure why all the hate, $3,000 is nothing these days. Can’t even fly business class on a decent airline London to New York for that (and business class/first class travel is a good comparison – it is fleeting, you have nothing to show for it and those travellers subsidize everyone else!).

I think a lot of people miss the point when those servers who regularly run mega-blobs refer to WvWvW as PVE. The reason they do this is that for them WvWvW is pretty much ALL PvE. The zerg rolls around taking out guards and keep lords or builds and uses multiple siege items. So in short:

- PvD is PvE
- ACvWhatever is PvE
- Running away from the enemy to do either of the above is PvE

When their steamroller-blob runs over some other players (mostly by accident I’m sure) I can’t imagine more than a handful of them actually get a hit on another player they are so many. I’m fairly sure there must be WxP ranked 100 and over who have less than 1,000 players kills (950 of those from siege weapons).

Playing on Gandara BL tonight has been pretty painful. Seems like everything has a few miliseconds delay or worse. Guardian run speed buff marks (sorry forget the name and I dont play Guardian) I need to stand right in the middle of it for a full second or I get no buff. This was small scale stuff, plenty of groups on the map elsewhere I guess.

Zumy.6318:

So you forgot about the days when 15 KISS + Pugs would chase 4 REQ over the entire map but would not engage when only in 2:1 ratio?
Im glad you forgot that, as it was quite embarassing.

Good old days, I miss REQUIEM and detonating “super-GvG-guilds” 5v10+.

I never forget anything. I’m rarely embarrased. You’re assuming I was in KISS at the time or even residing on the appropriate server – which is probably incorrect. In any case assuming your version of those events is correct I’m sure there was a good reason (i.e it was funny). If you were as good as you claim why were you running away in the first place? Thats a rhetorical question by the way, I don’t need you to reply with a response – I actually don’t care.

Nice vid.

@thiagoperne kitten you must be so pro, maybe post some vids of yours?

Personally I can always learn something, some nice stuff in here, not everyone is super pro reading these forums right? I appreciate it more that they include the voice and not some horrible music.

What is it with Riverside, they seem determined to suck the fun out of the game. Really not worth going to their BL with less than a group of 50. Two of us roaming this afternoon and this is how it goes:

- We are 2 vs 3 outside bay walls. Probably only just visible from the path we are so far away. RS blob of 40 come down the path and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM runs to join in the fight. Seriously? At least 37 of that blob can’t have even got any credit. I’m all for “red is dead” but honestly that is taking the kitten .

- We are 2 vs 2 outside RS tower. 3 RS arrive, instead of engaging they run in the tower and man the ACs. We move away from AC range, kill both and fart in the general direction of their ACs.

- We are 2 vs 7 or so at south camp after flipping it. We down/stomp 2 and it is now 2 vs 5. The rest run away so we chase them thinking they will fight outside of camp with less guards or mobs. They keep running, we chase. They keep running. They eventually run in tower and man ACs. No amount of taunting will get them out. We try for about a minute, then 30 man zerg turns up and steamrollers us, then turns tail and goes back to where it was before. Kudos (I guess) for the communication to call the 30 man zerg to take care of us though eh?

- We approach NE camp. 5 RS with 2 superior ACS 2 ballistas in place. We move off, come back 35 minutes later. Same 5 RS still there waiting… what the hell do you do when sitting there all day? Play cards?

- We attempt another camp – notice that numbers of RS are slowly gathering at spawn in invulnerability. Numbers grow. When they have double figures they decide to engage. At this point we waypoint to DL as there is 4 minutes on the timer and we have seen enough of Riverside for the day.

So nothing we haven’t seen from other servers right? Except all this is in the space of an hour. And it is the same every kittening day. There is no variation.

RS players must be bored out of their minds, I hope the points tick continues to make you feel warm and fuzzy. Actually I don’t, I hope you all get so bored you drag the game folder to the recycle bin

street.2176:

Oh no I actually wish Id have got an AC during that time. But sadly I didnt. Wonder how much Bags those guys in the AC’s got.

---

What the….?

At 2:17:20 Riverside runs away before they even see you. They probably needed to defend something on the map or another map. Like hell theyd run because of that lil Melee Train. Or do you think they’ll run all AT THE SAME TIME away the exact second a Player with [TUP] appears on screen? No, they even started running 2-3 sec before the first of your Players was visible. Seriously…

Doesn’t matter if you personally were manning one of multiple ACs or not, you think the numerous ACs didn’t have an effect on how many loot bags you collected?

And with regard to your second point – happens all the time, not just to TUP. I’d guess that if we are only outnumbered 2:1 there is a 50% chance they run. If we are outnumbered 3:1 then there is a 25% chance they run. Those percentages change fairly dramtically to be fair – much more chance they run if there is arrowcarts already set up for them nearby, much less chance if there is an organised guild in the blob.

Personal experience only. I don’t play 24/7, only 2-3 hours per day max and usually later on in the day. My perceptions however seem to be backed up by many others from different guilds and players who play different times and CRUCIALLY – by different servers.

100 loot bags for manning siege? kitten , you pro. You might as well go play PVE – more loot, better loot. Much less sitting around doing nothing waiting for someone to attack or worrying you might lose your place on your AC.

AC buff was the worst change yet in this game. The main WvWvW forum threads are full of people defending it because “it gives smaller groups a chance when outnumbered”. What they forget is the reverse is also true – the small groups when facing a much larger force – who no doubt have siege maxed due to the number of ACs placed – have no chance at all.

Game was much more fun when siege placement was broken. Personally I’d take out all the siege with exception of rams and catas (although I’d make doors MUCH harder). Superior items should be WXP drop only to limit their supply much more effectively and Golems only available to build when you are outnumbered.

I never thought I’d miss WARs odd system where you could only place siege at designated spots, but maybe there was some method to their madness.

It’s like groundhog day.

“Riverblob” (only for reset and weekend, they become “Rivercart” when they either have a big lead or only outnumber us by 2:1). And another German server. Again.

Can’t think how this week could be worse. Oh wait, Myrmi is in the thread. Yes I can

Maybe for a change of pace they should put all the national servers against each other and do a few matchups that way. Winner of DE, FR and EU matchups fight it out to be king of Euro servers.

This is so annoying I can’t even begin to express how this makes me feel. Surely you can fix this quickly?

Hmm, this should be interesting. Shame they don’t put in a week or so of daily matchups though to test it through like they had at launch. Daily resets, that would be fun.

@Dranul – love the videos, more importantly o7 and much respect for your attitude to WvWvW.

@myrmi – can’t speak for all of Kiss or officially but I have zero respect for you from your posts on the forum plus I don’t even know who you are or what guild you represent. I don’t care either.

Can only hope that AGs next matchup brings some fun.

Stupid idea, badly implemented and probably barely tested. If at all.

As a poster above me states – orbs were removed for less issues than this.

Just remove them.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Let’s assume a base damage of 1,000 for an Arrow Cart pre-buff. An 80% increase bumps that up to 1,800 damage. A 50% nerf to that damage versus siege reduces that to 900 damage. So Arrow Carts now do less damage to siege than they did pre-buff

There are several assumptions in here. I could instead interpret that the 50% reduction only applies to the recent 80% buff and not the total damage. Would appreciate a dev confirmation on this.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Trying to hide behind the argument of “WvWvW should be about PvP, not siege wars” is disingenuous at best when zergs outnumbering their opponents by factors of 3, 4, 5, or more to 1 roll up to a gate. Anyone who does so and then tries to pull out the “I just want to PvP” argument is flat-out lying.

So where is the tipping point between defenders within a structure and attackers? Sould just 4 people with superior arrow carts be able to defend against 50? Should deploying arrow carts in the field be a reasonable tactic? Personally I don’t think it should.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Since the meta did devolve into zerg wars, a counter in the form of buffs to Arrow Carts was introduced. Maybe it has little to no impact on certain servers; especially at tier 1 or tier 2. Conversely, though, it’s been quite effective as a zerg disperser on other servers. Arrow Carts are anti-personnel weapons and working as intended now. The damage was buffed 80% to make them actually have an impact; even for defenders who are grossly outnumbered.

And the reverse is also true – attackers who are grossly outnumbered have, literally, no chance at all.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Even so, the range buff can’t be scaled back too far given that the default range is already 2,500. Short of a change to the default range itself, there’s not much room for the developers to drastically reduce the range buff and still have it be a worthwhile upgrade in the Arrow Cart Mastery line.

Agreed, instead why not just remove it. We already have the cheapest siege in the game to deploy while having an incredible coverage and rate of fire out ranging many other more expensive items of siege. We also have no range finder when placing siege either – how good are you that you can see an arrow cart in a lords room and define if your ballista can hit it while not being hit by return fire?

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

ArenaNet is guilty of making a mistake. That mistake was game mechanics and a lack of counters that allowed the zergs to grow to ridiculous proportions and rule the WvWvW meta single-handedly. The changes to Arrow Carts are an attempt to restore balance, introduce more varied strategies and tactics, and make it a game of counters and counters to counters (rock : paper : scissors).

I think even Anet would agree they made more mistakes than this. I haven’t yet heard any dev specify that this change was introduced as a counter to zergs. There are dozens of counters to zergs, not least playing as a co-ordinated group with communication.

Zergs as you call them are not going way either. By your own admission you already need twice as many people now just to man a couple of rams so you can rotate them.

The changes have done nothing to introduce more strategies – they instead made the strategies incredibly stale and boring. Build lots of arrow carts when defending. Build lots of trebs when attacking. Sit around pressing one of three buttons or watch someone else do it.

If your hope that zergs will reduce is based on people just being bored out of their minds by the current meta game then I think you actually might be on to something. Less players enjoying the game should eventually mean less zergs.

They are shaped like strips.

I know one thing, if people are losing a keep and there is still supply in it the last thing they will be doing before giving up the fight (or even as part of normal defence?) is dropping anti-supply traps around the supply depots.

Haven’t tested dropping a trap bundle for others to pick up so looks like that is possible too – just give everyone in your guild group a trap to drop.

Whole game is going far too much towards “bunker” or “turtle” mode. Just bunker in your structure with ACs, drop your traps, never move – never use a player skill. You can’t even change map as you might lose your traps, so you bunker in your own border.

Madness.

You’re right of course, a thief encountering an anti stealth trap should just have their character instantly deleted. It would be a lot quicker and potentially less painful than the “death by 1,000 cuts” approach Anet is taking to the class.

Stupid idea, who thought stopping a class using it’s primary defense was a good plan? What color is the sky on their planet?

We should also lobby for traps that remove pets and remove defensive skills like endure pain for 30 seconds.

Cost is too low, benefit too large.

So let me get this straight, you are keeping the 80% damage buff to players on the cheapest siege in the game and the cheapest range trait but you are reducing the amount of damage ACs do to siege. Completely ignoring the fact that players still won’t be able to operate most siege (e.g. rams) because they will melt in the face of 2 or 3 superior ACs with traits. And you are putting off fixing the stupid range you introduced – in the cheapest trait line at 5 points that virtually anyone can get – most likely till next month.

Golf clap.

You just turned it from AC Wars to Golem Wars.

And it took you HOW LONG to get this in the game considering you already admitted the issue some time ago? Plus you aren’t going to address zoom hacks, PoV hacks, line of sight placement or other issues that exist with ACs? Seriously, this stuff isn’t funny.

In other news any issue with a dungeon gets hot fixed within 24 hours. Way to go.

FractalChaos.6539:

Guild Wars 2 has had siege weapons as part of the overall basic WvW design since the beginning. They’re not going away.

I admire your tenacity. Nobody wants siege to go away, but for the cheapest siege in the game to be HANDS DOWN the most powerful is just ridiculous.

I’d argue that the WXP trait lines for ACs are the worst of it – so let’s ignore the 80% damage increase for the moment (but instead recognize that any buff or nerf of that magnitude is almost certainly going to cause imbalance).

If you siege hills or Stonemist and get past the outer wall or gate and your opponent is both competent and organized there is literally nowhere to stand inside the walls that cannot be hit by superior ACs with the range trait. The range trait is first, virtually anyone should have it.

You can’t setup a ballista because the AC damage will destroy it even if you flash build it. If you build it quick enough it might last 20 seconds.

We get stupid comments int hsi thread like “don’t stand in the red circle” but that is somewhat difficult when the red CIRCLES (plural) are overlapping everywhere and extend 5000 range from you in every direction.

ACs are now so powerful that most servers are placing them virtually everywhere in a structure and worst of all in open fights. I can count the number of times I’ve seen a ballista since the change on one hand.

The game suffers because we need to resort to trebbing everything. We need to setup trebs to take the inner wall or gate because we can’t place any siege anywhere else. A treb takes considerable supply to build and encourages us to zerg up to build enough so that we can do more damage than can be repaired and/or ensure 17 of us aren’t just standing around watching the three guys on the treeb hit “1”. Cos golly gee, thats fun isnt it? Watching other people use siege.

Inside the keep they only need 1 treb to take out our 4 trebs, and they probably have height advantage so even if we spread our treabs out enough we probably couldn’t hit the defending treb.

The advantages to owning a structure and being able to defend it are already considerable. ACs with zoom hacks and line of sight issues are everywhere and these issues have been well known for a long time. These changes simply make the game dull, slow and uninteresting.

It is boring the kitten off me and virtually everyone who I discuss it with.

It’s WvWvW reset and I’m typing on the forums instead, should tell you everything you need to know about these changes.

Myrmidone.4362:

btw………. i would never post such a screen its silly and disrespectul, on the other hand as i said there is way to much complaining and “hate” from some of you

I wonder if any of the merchants on RS had a single arrow cart left to sell after that screenshot was taken

Myrmi – yup far too much complaining, but then you are the one who sees fit to complain about KISS in another thread I was posting in relating to WvWvW improvements in general – and that thread had nothing to do with this weeks matchup.

You also seem to complain a lot. Go figure.

Edit: Spelling

Myrmidone.4362:

To the KISS Guy above you forgot to mention your PvDoor every night……….boring.

Greets Myrmi

Why not keep comments like this to the matchup thread? I’ll gladly call out servers, guilds, even individuals in that thread for all kinds of things but I don’t think this is the place for it.

But yup Myrmi, nothing else to do 75% of the time – no one to fight at night, or more specifically not enough enemy who want to fight at night. Guilds are logging off earlier and playing less every… single… day. Pugs and entire servers it seems run and turtle from us and other guilds that want to fight players rather than engage in siege wars.

Across the two servers that we face now there are fights at night, but there are 3 or 4 guilds hungry for those fights on our server, what should we do – all rush in against those few enemy? Would that be fun? Not for us.

So what else should we do? Go PvE? Personally I’m just killing time waiting for some epithany from the WvWvW devs (or ESO, whichever comes first).

I’m spending almost as much time on the forums as I am in WvWvW. That should tell you something – I still care about the game, want to enjoy it but currently find it exceedingly boring.

style.6173:

Today was the first day that I played WvW and thought, “wow, this is boring”. This new patch is horrible.

People come to WvW to fight each other. Instead, what do we get?
1. Unkillable NPCs – Gameplay scenario- Run to camp, see there is a buff, and then just stand there for a few minutes. Boring. No NPC guarding an objective should be unkillable ever

2. Overpowered arrow carts. What? I want to fight people, not some arrow cart that I cannot see. This just means that a small group cannot take an objective and so everyone need to zerg even more than before. Boring.

I mean come on ANET. What have we really gotten in WvW anytime recently? No culling, definitely a good thing. Beyond that I can’t name anything. Ascended gear? Nope. WvW skills that are of any value? Nope (I haven’t spent any). More fights between players? Nope.

I know ANET is trying to make changes but they are mostly the wrong moves. They would do well to just listen to the OP from this post.

I could have written this post myself it matches exactly how I feel about WvWvW right now – very boring since last patch. Doesn’t help we are up against a server again that is not only already infamous for its over-use of siege but who have already stated that if they meet us in open field they will just run and turtle.

To the OP though, +100 sir. While I don’t get excited by everything on the list I can at least see that there are enough people that WOULD get excited over them. Devon are you reading this thread? This is what you should have been thinking about instead of traps my friend.

Maybe they should build a mini game called “World vs World vs World Siege and Traps” only. When joined you get a mini map with your own tower. Players can then take turns to position and create traps and/or siege to take an objective. Simulated zergs or 5 man groups will run around at your control. Would it make a vocal minority on here happy and stop them posting “if you want players vs player go to sPvP”?

I never thought I would miss the simplicity of WARhammer open world pvp. And if the original devs influence for WvWvW, as they stated, was DaOC they are going way off map here.

For those that need reminding ladies and gents – WvWvW is “open world pvp”. That is what the guilds come for, that is what a large majority of the pugs come for.

holska.4127:

Every single mmo I played that had 1 or more stealth classes always had a way to counter stealth (note: I’m not saying counter that class or player, but the stealth mechanic itself). Things like not being able to stealth in combat, huge stealth cooldowns or in the better games usually something like a specialized class (buff) skill to either detect stealthed players or remove the stealth from an area. Traps would fall into the “remove stealth from an area” category that several games have done before but was lacking here.

As for traps in general, just wait how they work out and don’t over react like a little kid to something that doesn’t exist yet.

Really? So all the whining since launch about thieves was related not to stealth at all but to the Steal skill? Way OP was it? LOL. But anyway, have it your way – instead of calling it “game mechanic” let’s call it “defining mechanic” instead. Better now?

Yes, other games have/had lots of methods to detect stealth – but then stealth was (generally) a skill that was not short term/time limited the way it is in GW2. Noteably in recent games (SWTOR for example) you could see the class with the stealth detecting skill actually USING it. By the definition of trap I don’t imagine that will be the case with WvWvW traps.

With this change you aren’t just introducing a method of removing the defining mechanic from an entire class (and you could put forward a reasonable case for the effect on mesmers too) but you are also removing access to the skills that depend on stealth.

ViRuE.3612:

Now here is an alternative idea to traps – if you want to reduce someones supply you have to kill them using your character (not deploy something like a trap or siege and sit in a tower). Then you can loot their supply

This. Awesome idea. If I get spiked on the field why should I expect to respawn with my resources? Would put some meaning back in to actual fighting and make it worthwhile. Except perhaps too many players would find that another reason to run away and turtle.

Traps are a completely stupid idea though. What next a portable nuke? A command center where you can turtle in a tower and call in air support?

And stop bashing on thieves. Creating a trap that negates a classes entire mechanic is ridiculous.

I do like getting rid of the JP though – hopefully we will see them all gone soon.

Will miss AR, some nice fights and very decent players. Riverside? With the AC buff I hope Arenanet have remembered to put extra stock of AC blueprints in the vendors on Riverside spawns.

I’d agree 100% on the terrible rating system that locks servers in place for weeks at a time regardless of their current performance. I’d also add that the arrowcart buff is probably the biggest threat to WvWvW guilds we might ever see – you think a lot of guilds have left before now? I dare say we have seen nothing yet.

Mug nerf… actually don’t think it was that bad. Something was coming to thief burst for a long long time, and I’ve been playing thief since beta. I switched away from GC D/D thief a couple of months ago and I’m surprised it has taken them this long to address that burst potential.

I will give minor kudos to Anet for adding the small heal, it is the first thing they have done since launch which DIDN’T have the end result of pushing all thiefs in to one spec. If they make good on their idea to increase base damage to give us more options on survivability then that will be another step to making other builds actually viable.

I either don’t play the class or don’t know enough about the other items you list but I will say this: if WvWvW doesn’t get dedicated attention it will be a shadow of itself before the end of summer. WXP was a nice idea but took too long to implement. There are glaring issues which have been virtually ignored and now we get 80% buffs, increased range, increased damage on the cheapest siege item in the game.

The impact is to guilds first and foremost, and it is guilds which are the lifeblood of WvWvW like it or not. Arenanet devotes more time and attention to every other aspect of the game than they do to WvWvW. They had an opportunity here to really redefine open world PvP but the fat lady is warming up and they still haven’t got their game face on. You would think they might have learned from their terrible attempt at esport sPvP.

Edited for kittens in stupid places where no swearing existed.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Given WvW is in The Mists, it would make sense for vials of mist essences etc and ascended drops to occur in WvW also.

This. 100x this. And while you are at it, let’s have some good looking WvWvW only armor skins.

I swear half the posters defending this change just want to sit beside a superior arrow cart in a tower/keep all day eating their chips/semi afk just waiting for the enemy to come along so they can collect their bags and consider themselves 1337 or some BS.

They are no doubt the same people who fold within seconds in a 1v1, 2v2. 5v5 or 40v40 and still don’t know how to play any class properly. I imagine on the side they play a lot of RTS games that takes hours to decide one element.

Sorry, not the game I expected and have played for the months since launch. I’m out, I suspect a lot of others will too. Enjoy ACvsACvsAC. The reality you will see is that the larger server will get their nose in front first and will just buld as many superior ACs as they can and stay in front all week long. The remaining servers will try for a bit then give up.

This is not a war: matches last a week, groups can march from one keep to another in 20 seconds. The game WAS fast moving, pacy, fun, had all elements (open field, attack, defense, small group, large group, mass zerg) and it felt like you could actually make a difference.

Now it just feels like the game is all about setting up siege in places and standing there. Clicking three skills. I’d honestly rather watch paint dry. I suspect most guilds will just end up arranging open field GvG for FUN while the bads will still sit in their towers jealously guarding their superior ACs – with only the odd noob or passing pug to hit. Have fun with that. Please don’t come to ESO, we want to have some fun there.

There is maybe 6 or 7 times I can remember reading any games patch notes where there is something as idiotic as “Buffed damage by 80%”. Especially considering that there was no general consensus that it needed buffing in the first place.

Then add to that extreme buff new WvWvW trait line that extends range, adds damage and also factor in a LOT of people have spent no points at all just waiting to see what would come out that was useful. So you have people instantly manning superior ACs with siege might and arrow cart traited as high as they can go.

If we then add that arrow carts are basically being exploited in the vast majority of cases (positioning, line of sight, blah blah) what you end up with is a recipe for disaster.

I wasn’t overly impressed with the WvWvW trait lines, just seems to have added a grind. Now that grind is actually verging on game breaking if I put my points in siege traits for WvWvW.

The buff does nothing to combat zergs, in actual fact it PROMOTES them. If the zerg can get to a tower or keep and get inside before a few people can actually build/use the superior arrow carts – they win. If they can’t they just keep moving.

Trick Shot skill: First arrow is no longer heat-seeking.

What exactly does that mean?

So the end result of any change is to make almost everyone unhappy and to start arguments between EU and NA players. Way to go Anet.

The solution has to be fairly simple but will never make EVERYONE happy, someone is always going to be inconvenienced. I would propose:

1. Server resets for WvWvW are split so NA and EU are at different times
2. NA reset is Friday evening, whatever time that works (6 or 7pm west coast time?) for all of your time zones (so for East coast that might make it more like Friday night)
3. EU reset is Friday evening, again whatever works – say 7pm UK time, mainland Europe is then 9pm etc
4. Reset times are linked to BST/DST or whatever other time zone changes take place

Aussie players etc – sorry you probably get the shaft, but then this is not new for you guys in any case. Can’t play Friday evenings? Too bad, honestly I don’t finish work till Midnight UK time so any proposed change isn’t that good for me either.

I don’t really care about technicalities – this is an issue that involves all WvWvW players, the ONLY consideration should be the customers. Not your server staff, what it costs, who it might inconvenience at Anet or how long it might take.

xXx tears are salty but very, very bitter. Ruined my popcorn.

I think a lot of their members must have quit since no-more-culling revealed their only tactic. I kind of remember them being better, not good, just slightly better than that.

Honestly I don’t mind the blobs, keep doing it. It generally means 60+ players of which only a small percentage have any skill, and most of the time it takes longer to pick up my loot bags than it does to kill you all.

You guys on BB need some co-ordination methinks, last night on AG our Garrison had two holes in outer walls, East gate down to 25% and yet you were determined to keep trying to “ninja” the outer water gate which was fully repaired. The fight when you did eventually get in the lords room was fun though. Shame my bags were full even before that fight, I had to drop a merchant after the dust cleared to pick up.

Anyway, end result of culling is more running away – even those with superior numbers run from our tags. Please stop this, my loot bag addiction needs constant feeding. Repair costs are low in this game, man up.

Tyaen.5148:

I spend/spent $20+ a week on gems because the game is amazing and I want to support it. Even under the old “culling” system it was playable. It is now completely unplayable. When I hear a commander in TS say “Stay on me, move with me” but I can’t see him/her, and instead run into an also invisible ball of enemy players it’s frustrating on multiple levels.

At least before I could expect 15 players more than were rendered and make some educated guesses as to what they might do until they all rendered (which they eventually did). Now I can see 5 enemy players who then disappear to be replaced by randomly rendered players elsewhere, with no allies rendered so I don’t know where it might be safe to retreat to until I can figure out what the enemy is doing. There is now NO WAY for me to act/react tactically.

So, as I’ve said before ANet, my $20+ a week is gone unless you fix it. Hopefully, others will also speak with their wallets.

Well my $40+ a week is gone until something is done with this too. kitten I’d settle for culling going back the way it was, at least it was playable.

I’m not surprised by the poll results tbh. Already this week guilds are fragmenting, tempers are fraying and people are just not playing. Even the PVE players are complaining of culling now. I don’t know what the feedback was from the December patch but from reading the thread at least 50% hated it. I don’t know where Anet is getting their feedback from, but if 50% have a very strong opinion against something it probably isn’t a good idea to implement it.

Bottom line: culling is much worse. We could at least live with it the way it was before as we were comfortable with the failings of the engine.

This week we have had constant queues, less people able to get in to BLs, rubber banding, disappearing commanders, constant culling… the list goes on and on (without even mentioning the historic issues of Wvw).

WvW has seen no improvements only features taken away (orbs). The February patch might be too little too late for a lot of us the way things are going.

Although I live in the UK but work USA east coast hours I’ve normally played any MMO on USA based servers. This time round I’m actually on an EU server for GW2 – I can honestly say I’ve never experienced any noticeable latency on any game I’ve played online.

The internet has moved on – it is a far cry from when I used to play Tribes over a decade ago and would get owned because my ping was 50-75ms higher than the guy fighting me.

Equally there are plenty of oceanic/EU/USA guilds joining servers elsewhere in the world and I don’t see them complaining either.

Worse still I feel for the FR and DE servers in Europe, as if it wasn’t already fragmented enough by USA/EU those guys are seeing massive bleeding from lower FR/DE servers to the stronger WvWvW country specific servers.

Sure without those FR/DE designations some EU servers would become “unofficial” French or German servers just as many have were known as unofficial Russian servers but LESS fragmentation of the player base is a GOOD thing.