Guild Wars 2

It is pointless to have a downed state in PvP… thats just my opinion…

On a more constructive note, if you insist keeping downed state why dont you make it more fair… (and i am sorry if this is mentioned before) why dont you put a disadvantage for the downed and rallied people?

i.e.; you re downed and rallied…

you will have only 75% of your HP max for “n” seconds/minutes
you will not be able to use your #4 #5 weapon skills for “n” seconds/minutes
you will not be able to use your elite skill or switch weapons for “n” seconds

you can however run away from the main combat area (i.e.; 4000 yards away) get out of combat for 10 secs and have your punishment removed… and reengage if you can…

that would be more logical if you ask me…

i main a ranger… which is stand alone a flaw…

but my biggest issue is the skill lag… everytime i log in to game the first thing i want to do after a few fights is to log out… and my “log in” will, gets rarer and rarer…

it really is easy to fix rangers… just rename the class to “beastmaster” and we re done…

Linnes.2678:

WTB Arrow Carts in PvE, maybe my ranger will be useful? Hell I should just duct-tape an arrow cart to his back.

indeed

to OP…

as much as i agree with you in almost all aspects and i hate the pets (in GW2) with a strong passion… you are unfortunately beating a dead horse…

Anet stated in various occasions, that they will never rid of the pet, and they are quite satisfied with the pet/ranger relation (granted that they acknowledge that pets have minor (???) issues)….

So basically yes, despite the definition in the site, Anet’s envision of the ranger is actually a beastmaster…

with the current state of pet command responsivenes/AI one of the following will happen even if you have the above mentioned button…

a- by the time he understands what you asked him to do and starts to execute he will already be dead…

b- if for some divine intervention he s not dead yet he will most probably take the most complex path from point a to point b and die in the process…

i am not saying its a bad idea, i like it… but pet AI and command/execute delay should be improved before what you say happens…

dont

[15 characters]

if you are dedicated ranger player well go play with whatever build you like… no matter what people say you ll have your fun…

if you are dedicated WvW player who wants to be a force to be reckoned in a large group fight, well then play ANYTHING but a ranger…

the Anet ranger is not meant for WvW… its all designed and tested on sPvP/tPvP aspect of the game, and in there ranger does quite good with 2 main builds

edit: well you can call roaming is a form of WvW (i dont) and use your bunker or trapper build for that…

Chopps.5047:

This game is all about position. The fact is, most people are scared to practice running spirits. They really aren’t that bad, thank you for inspiring me to use them more. Fyi, I’ve been using frost spirit in molten facility and arah with success. Just don’t use them during a big aoe boss fight and they do fine, untraited, so long as you place them well.

A good place for a spirit is out of LoS of enemy and, if possible, on elevated ground.

agreed, but all of which you said is undoable if you are mainly doing large group WvW… on the other hand they can be viable in instances with careful application as you have stated…

Abraxius.6429:

Just wanted to ask why it is that like 1% of rangers run spirits expecially in pvp. I know that that they have there downside but what build doesnt. I have found Amazing success with them fully traited in tpvp,spvp, and even amazing duel 1v1 success. I’ve heard alot of bad things in other forum posts and this last patch to me i can really feel a difference in them being even better. just wanted to kow if someone could point there finger on why there not so popular O.o? cause its by far my most survivable build ive been able to run along with about 2900 power which is respectable so its not like im not putting out damage on my bunker. (looking for real answers so if i know if im wasting my time or not not insults or trolling lol ^^ thnx for any help)

i cant talk on sPvP basis… but for me who usually does the WvW, for that environment the spirits are way too out of my control / too immobile / to squishy

i can not compare having them to not having them as they usually get disintegrated so fast

Sebrent.3625:

Obviously the Rainbow Jellyfish was all we needed as the Ranger seems to have become much more popular since this latest patch

really? havent noticed that.

havent read all the responses and if it was mentioned before i am sorry…

i am not a big fan of rifles… wouldnt mint if we have them but i think we should have composite crossbows…

with traits / characteristics like huge single target damage and range… will never happen but it sure is more suitable than a rifle to the ranger role/lore i envision…

if they even do consider it i am pretty sure they will give us a “sling” and more beastmaster oriented variety… thats how Anet envisions a ranger…

grumps

it may have been more viable if you could move with it imo… as it is now its not really useful for me in WvW cuz all the other guy who, i.e. try to kill shot, need to do is wait for it to finish and click kill shot again…

if we could use it like for example GS 4 skill and move to the cover at the same time, it may have been useful…

Daecollo.9578:

Next time dont use up all your init spamming HS

chuckles touché my friend

bad bad topic name…. made me chuckle… thanks for that

Zorby.8236:

Minor buff to QZ, not sure how pet buff will work, but initial CoE run is looking grim…
Other than that nothing of importance for me. All in all it’s as I would’ve expected, neither glad nor dissapointed. And no balancing next patch…it really will take a year to get to a good state…

And ANet, no matter how much you try and push it I will not play beastmaster…unless you rename the class to it.

+1 to this

basically this patch translates for me as… “ok we are clearly telling you that you MUST play beastmaster… no you wont get rid of the silly pet… no we wont improve it to a reasonable state for non beastmasters… we just named the class ranger for **** and giggles…”

all that remains now i am waiting for those pro-forum-troll-rangers come here and educate me…

Sebrent.3625:

I would like to say that the “RNG” on pets is not really RNG. They have a set script that they follow.

When skill A is off cooldown, they use it.
When skill B is off cooldown, they use it.
When you press F2, they use Skill C.
Otherwise, they auto-attack with skill D.

It just feels random because we don’t have control over it and our brains, especially in the middle of combat, make for very poor timers for tracking those pet cooldowns.

Go to an empty sPvP arena with a 100% tank friend and let your dog attack him/her constantly. Track the time between the knockdown and cripple.

Related to what you said,

i personally have a big trouble in understanding why on earth my full potential is not at my disposal at all times… Every other class has…

so we share our damage/utilities with our pets… at least 40% of that comes from our pet… because of the crappy AI and unresponsive and limited controls bad/singleminded design (as of mostly designers seem to think the game evolves around sPvP) we mostly are playing with half of our potential.

so either give me my full potential available at all times, or implement something to other classes like: “oi mr warrior your greatsword is broken you need to wait 30 secs to use it again, oi mr mage you ran out of intelligence… you need to wait -n- seconds to wisen up and use all your spells!”

otherwise the class balance is a myth

WatchTheShow.7203:

Linnes.2678:

Except for… we paid for Arena Net’s house, cars, food, children’s schooling, etc. by purchasing this game (mind you this is an overstatement, but the message is clear). We are customers they cannot afford to lose. If they ask us to shell out another $60 for an expansion, and if they’ve failed us already, they’re going to be losing out on a rather large sum of money. If NCsoft sees that they failed GW2, Arena Net will pretty much lose all it’s funding by them, and NCsoft will stick to being primarily a supplier of Asian content.

They aren’t losing any money, as is evident by the fact they are still pushing out patches, updates, and events. When the game becomes Istaria, then we should worry.

bigsal.7061:

Thats right, dont bite the hand that feeds you. Last time I checked we all had to pay for this game to play it so when we get aquaman patches and pet skin fixes the hand starts slappin.
Any of you guys see the nice warrior buffs coming in the patch? Thats right buffs.

Linnes.2678:

This.

I have no problem playing a ranger inWvW, or sPvP, or even PvE. I get my socks rocked occasionally, but for the most part I crush people. I have already bought the gift of mastery (required 500 badges of honor) and now I almost have 1,000 badges again, and I don’t know what to do with them. They’re starting to take over my bank. So when people cry on the forums about how bad we are, I just go:

well they are loosing money… i.e. i was regularly buying gems from the gem store (thats what i do to support people who work for the game i like) and when it stopped being the game i like and i feel let down i stopped paying…

and by playing only my ranger i have two sections of bankspace full of badges… that makes 6 full lines of badges… i do not know what the exact number of that… minus loads of badges i ve spent to buy siege / gear… i win lots more fights than i loose… (yet again on any other class i play i find myself “awesome” not only “can do” by my own standards) so having badges / crushing people does not neccesarily mean the class is ok…

also some may find people expressing their disgust / unhappiness when a dev comes on with a trivial issue while the class was expecting major fixes for… what?… 6+ months now, as being “dense”… i find it quite understandable.

WatchTheShow.7203:

Some of us have wanted the rainbow jellyfish to have a unique skin since launch. I’ll quote Bambi, “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say it at all.” There’s constructive criticism, and then there’s being rude. In case your parents never taught you: cruel jokes and cynical sarcasm are considered rude. Being rude to the company that controls every aspect of the game you play, is incredibly stupid. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you. If you want something changed, be polite, and leave constructive feedback. Fact is, people respond better to friendliness than to threats and insults.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Bug-List/page/2

I posted the rainbow jellyfish bug way back when the game was new. I am happy they are finally fixing it. Do I think the ranger pet AI needs improvement? Yes. Do I think rangers in general need some TLC (tender loving care)? Yes, I do. However, this is not the correct thread to discuss that. From what I can see, Jon doesn’t balance skills or classes, he’s an artist and designs or oversees designers who make textures and models. That’s like telling a ship captain to go pilot an airplane. Have fun with that! See what hilarity ensues.

worst example ever…

i assume i (and all the other rangers that are “stupid” because they express their unhappiness) pay to play… A-net has to deliver something… now the result may be to my liking or not…

in the end i keep on paying through online store and/or DLCs… or i dont…

i assume thats pretty much is the description of me (and everyone paying for this game) being “tha hand that… what was it?… that feeds…” but again me and A-net agrees on one thing at least… we know what happens when you assume…

its simple human nature… people want to be heard… and you start the conversation by speaking… trying to communicate… once you are deliberately and repetadly ignored, you start yelling to be heard… that is exactly what is happening in the ranger forums….

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Seyyah.6135:

i assume, you guys should fix the class itself first… but as you said… you know what happens when you assume…

Bane.3127:

How about someone reminds you how broken traits, pets, spirits, signet cooldowns and dungeon rangers are?

Leaf.3156:

Yes, this is TOTALLY what the ranger needs.

Not fixing their horrid trait lines, not improving pet AI, not making utility skills actually bring some UTILITY in a team, no, what rangers really need is a fix for the rainbow freaking jellyfish texture.

RANGERS ARE SAVED

Bailey.6892:

Seyyah.6135:

i assume, you guys should fix the class itself first… but as you said… you know what happens when you assume…

But that’s hard and they haven’t had time to really work on the ranger class just since beta but what ever.

Seriously fix the kitten class first.

Enough with the immature, off topic, negative comments. You are not helping.

This change probably takes one designer and one artist, which takes zero resources away from the balance team, so relax.

what gives you the right to call me “immature” lad?

i made a viable and insult free argument… i am not here to help A-net… been asked my opinion and have given it…

noone asked your opinion on my post or my maturity level tho… so behave!

roadkill.3749:

I’m just going to say 1 thing here. Well, more actually.. Trappers are awesome in WvW!! Idk about warriors much. I haven’t played mine in WvW yet. Engineers and thieves are meeeh. My commander though, he prefers rangers over these last 2. So NO!! under no circumstances are rangers the blacksheep class. We don’t have many alternatives to trapping but at least this build is fun and devastating if you know how to use it and what to equip.

agreed my friend… traps is the only viable build for large group WvW (which is practically the essence of WvW)… and THAT itself is the problem… you either go traps or you re a burden…

i humbly concur on the second part of your statement tho… a well played thief or engineer can bring lots more to the table than a well played ranger…

of course if you start comparing a well played ranger against an inexperienced playstyle of any other class (like some people insist on doing in these forums) ranger will shine hands down…. but again so will any other decent played class…

regards

i have no patience for your kind lad… but just to give you an example;

“You have a problem with the idea in your head that an average guy playing a non-Ranger can beat you on your Ranger … I also didn’t answer this as there is no real answer to it. You get beat and you think they are average. Perhaps you are bad at Ranger?”

i never said someone beat me on my ranger with another class… whereas i said; whatever i do with my ranger, any average player with another class can do it better.

all the other points and wall of words you did (and doing throughout the forums) does not require even an answer. and my example alone shows your reading skills is not the best skill you have…

i am really done now (man i start repeating myself… must be old age)

regards

i assume, you guys should fix the class itself first… but as you said… you know what happens when you assume…

Sebrent.3625:

• We have more than two viable builds.

• How are rangers a one-trick pony? I listed more than one thing already.

• Longbow/Shortbow are not our signature weapons. No class has “signature weapons”. This is merely just an arbitrary label you’ve created and applied to these weapons
  • It has no meaning.

• While people get annoyed at pet AI, I’m often amused that I don’t see the same about Mesmer Phantasms. I’ve often had my Phantasmal Warlock (from staff) just stand there staring at the target, not attacking at all.
  • Seems most common on inanimate objects like tower/keep doors.

• While ranger’s class mechanic (pet) is not perfect due to its AI limitations, it isn’t the only classic mechanic with issues
  • Warrior has weapons whose burst skills are seen as pretty useless (hello greatsword). This largely incentivizes GSword warriors to not use burst skills and take traits that give bonuses for having adrenaline … that is, ignore your class mechanic because it sucks with this weapon.
  • Most elementalists barely even use their class mechanic (4 separate weapon bars) as they tend to prefer 1 to 2 attunements … many still aren’t comfortable with their weapon skills on the other 2 to 3 attunements (which is sad).
• Necromancer’s Death Shroud is much less useful to a condition necromancer as it only has one skill on a 15 second cooldown that does condition damage (only 3 bleeds for 5s).
• Mesmer’s Mind Wrack is much less useful in condition builds if you don’t trait for all shatters to inflict confusion and Cry of Frustration is much less useful in power builds if you don’t trait for it to give you retaliation
• Mesmer phantasms are direct damage … much less useful when you’re a condition build.
• Mesmer clones, phantasms, and on-clone death conditions are not affected by their +condition duration despite being attached to their weapon skills and there are no traits to increase them.

Our Ranger pet can be quite powerful with 0 points invested in it. It can do excellent damage even if you don’t have a single point in power/precision/crit damage. No one else can do that.

Make a Mesmer and run around in Cleric’s or Apothecary. You don’t have as many sources of healing, even if you do a Restorative Mantras build, and if you don’t have points in power/precision/crit damage, your phantasms aren’t going to hit very hard.

hmm… i see… you dont read what you see… you are one of those people… and all the information you give is the limitations of the player over the class… not the class itself… anyways i am done here… cant solve hallucinations…

again for you;

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows….”

that seems pretty signature weapon definition to me…

regards

@Sebrent i dont want to argue about that but that is actually the state of rangers as of now… we are one trick pony… (again talking on the WvW basis) its not that we have multiple choices but one of those works astonishingly well like elementalists.

i have my ranger main and i have ele (actually i have all the classes leveled up and at least fully exotic geared for some time now… yeah… i am old and retired and have the time ) so i can honestly say that elementalist is the LAST class to ask for more. They have lots more than enough as is…

regards…

PS: i said it times and again but there is not one role / playstyle / weapon combo that i can say “hey my ranger can do this lots better”… that is my problem… whatever i do, the next guy with average knowledge of his class can do it better… even longbow – shortbow being our signature weapons.

But again that is how ranger is advertised by A-net and how i pictured it… i know we have two semi viable builds and i use them quite well… it still is not how i envisioned the ranger and how i am led to beleive by A-net…

I am happy for people enjoying their rangers… but i feel a little bit ripped off… thas just me, Grumpy old lad…

Sebrent.3625:

I don’t underestimate programmers. I am one. In fact, I’m one of the hated (but unfortunately necessary) “security guys” that makes QA look like Hello Pony and VPs ride them hard to fix things before they cost vast amounts of money and the make the company lose face for the next X years (getting root on a critical enterprise system will do that).

If you think a new race is just some skins, skeleton work, and animations then you are deluding yourself. There’s also voices, adjusting existing and future gear to fit on them, starting zone, city zone, starting intro, personal stories/quests. In fact, a new race in GW2 is quite a bit more difficult than in other MMOs due to those personal stories/quests adding just “another thing” to be done.

Additionally, now the overhead for every new piece of gear has increased as there is now another race it has to work with.

---

Now, I’m all for them evolving the ranger. If you’re talking about when they finally do expansions, great. Adding additional viable builds that make use of new weapons, skills, traits, etc. is something I’m all for. However, I’d like the original ranger to stay equally viable. I hope we never get as bad as elementalist is right now where it’s mostly “why not do 0/10/0/30/30 with daggers”. We almost got to that point, but not quite ;-)

ignorance is a bliss…

elementalists are great in any other combo and builds… staff… scepter/dagger… dagger/dagger too… BUT what you described is so much OP that it is almost nonsense to NOT to go that way… and there are more than a couple very effective dagger/dagger builds….

that is clearly not the case with us… we have one and a half viable build(s) and they still lack big time in WvW…

comparing an elementalist effectiveness to a ranger (WvW biased) is just comparing apples with oranges…

killahmayne.9518:

Seyyah.6135:

killahmayne.9518:

i am happy that you enjoy ranger over a warrior my friend but by your description of the warrior you are doing alot of things wrong in that department…

and saying a bunker ranger is more survivable than a bunker warrior is a tad bit overkill… i have them both and while bunker ranger can output more damage in a given time, i, as a warrior can outlast anything and more while tossing out heals for allies if i want to….

it seems to me you are comparing as dps a trap ranger with a bunker warrior and then as survivability a bunker ranger with a zerker warrior…

all in all, i meant no offense by any means and i honestly am glad you find rangers more effective than warriors.

I have played close to 850 hours on my Warrior, testing many builds, weapons with many types at least 7 different types of gear configurations, sPvP as well. So I think I know what I am doing and what I say. When i say bunker ranger vs bunker warrior, I say sPvP wise, a bunker ranger is more survivable and effective than a bunker warrior. And really it isn’t that hard to see why. A bunker warrior in sPvP is pretty terrible.

Rangers can inflict more conditions, have better endurance regeneration, more evades depending on the weapon you go, way better access to protection, easier access to sustain in terms of regeneration, healing (unless if it is a shout build for warrior which isn’t really a bunker build at all, it is more support), easier access to condition removal, the Bark Skin trait, a pet which can be very effective in point holding situations, protect me which is 6 seconds every 48-60 seconds vs endure pain which is 4 seconds every 90. Just because a warrior has high base stats doesn’t make them necessarily the most survivable and the most tanky, D/D eles defy that misconception that it does highly.

A ranger in almost any given situation have more reliable/consistent DPS which won’t boggle your mind, but overall it gets the job done efficiently. Where as with a Warrior, they can achieve high DPS and higher bursts than a ranger, but it isn’t as reliable and guaranteed as a Ranger’s is and often involves taking the brunt of conditions and burst damage. I am talking from a prototypical aspect, where most warriors opt for a Greatsword/x+Shield combo where a ranger opts for a Shortbow/X combo.

i have stated various times that i was talking about WvW…

i dont want to go into details but protect me is useless in WvW as your pet is almost 80% of the fight dead even with micromanagement… on the other hand you can have your “endure pain” more reliably in every 90 secs… when my pet is almost always dead 48secs cooldown does not mean a squat…

and “especially” longbow is anything but reliable source of dps where the opponent can just strafe and evade more than half of your attacks due to the low projectile speed… quickness buff was once the solution to that but since the nerf its not as effective…

i know that a trap or a bunker ranger can be viable in sPvP… and i agree a bunker ranger is a better bunker than a warrior in sPvP… but that is not the case in WvW…

i am putting my argument on WvW basis…

AlexRD.7914:

Seyyah.6135:

of none…

Thats how i see rangers… whatever i base my opinion on… weapon based or role based…

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

the above description, to me, seems that we supposed to be a great ranged class… (unparalelled=best actually but oh well)…

so after having leveled every class to 80 and have had meaningful time with each of them in WvW i come to the conclusion that rangers are hopeless… and definitely not going in the direction of above description… more and more we are forced to be melee heavy to be half-effective…

role based…

dps… get well anything BUT a ranger… and a healy guardian…
heal… get a guardian…
condition damage… get a necro… mesmer… engineer…
tank… get serious!!! (yeah bunker build right? sigh)
burst… get thief… warrior…
ranged… get a warrior for longbow… and i wish i had the thieves shortbow…

weapon based…
sword… warrior and thieves do it better
dagger… what???
longbow… warrior does it better
shortbow… thief does it lot better
greatsword… warrior guardian and hell even mesmer do it better…
axes… umm warrior rules…
warhorn… chuckles
torch… well this one is actually good on rangers… so we may actually use it…

all in all whatever we do the next guy with another class does it better… there is NOT ONE thing i can say “hey i can do this better on my ranger” except being a lootbag…

before you flame on i AM speaking on WvW basis… and for you who thinks this post has no constructive criticism here you go…

Dear A-net… in your Ranger Profession page, besides you have false description of the class, you have traps icon in the spirits explanation section and spirits icon for traps section… THAT IS how much attention you pay to us rangers…

Regards…
grumpy is out

Are you seriously trying to compare the warrior’s horrible longbow to the diamond that is our shortbow? I’m sorry, but ranged we still deal the best sustained DPS around. Thieves shortbow is horrible, only works for mobility.

Our sword is better than the warrior’s and the thieves, our dagger has a very nice evade, but the 5th skill projectile is slow and always fails. Our longbow is horrible. Never liked our greatsword. Axes are situationally good. Our warhorn is awesome, except for number 4. Our torch is great.

We’re very good in condition damage, able to deal long lasting burning with traps, our spikes aren’t that great but neither is anyone’s with the quickness nerf. Have you seen a healing regen ranger? It’s just wow, so impossible to kill.

We never were supposed to excel in anything. We’re supposed to be good at everything, not very good in one thing. Elementalists however, stole our role. Now they do everything very well.

btw… no offense intended but where did you get the idea of me comparing our shortbow to a warrior longbow? i am sure i havent…

and please keep in mind that i am speaking WvW centric… not 1v1… nor spvp… nor tpvp… so condition build is only situationaly viable in there… as if, its ok if you roam and pick up small skirmishes (which is basically somewhat of a sPvP in my books) but its below average if you are a member of a large group…

thanks

jkctmc.8754:

AlexRD.7914:

Are you seriously trying to compare the warrior’s horrible longbow to the diamond that is our shortbow? I’m sorry, but ranged we still deal the best sustained DPS around. Thieves shortbow is horrible, only works for mobility.

O.O

Non-Glass Canon my cluster bomb hits for 7k-9k crits to one person, and get this, it is an AoE. I’ve killed people with four Cluster Bombs, which by the way can be hasted. The #4 Choking Gas might not sound that good by itself (even though it reduces healing), but couple it with Caltrops, and you’re talking some amazing stuff.

AlexRD.7914:

Our sword is better than the warrior’s and the thieves,

How do you figure? I can place #2 on the ground, and teleport back to it from an infinite distance, so long as I do it within its duration. On top of that there is no better weapon set in the game, than a Thieves Sword/Dagger combo. There just isn’t. The problem is, most Thieves do not take advantage of the Tactical Strike, but increasing the daze duration.

AlexRD.7914:

our dagger has a very nice evade, but the 5th skill projectile is slow and always fails.

The Rangers; “Stalking Strike” is nice, but coupled with the Thieves mobility above with their sword, when I equip my dagger in offhand, I get an evade multiple times, while you have to wait 10 seconds. I can easily evade twice as much with my dagger attack, while having the potential to trait correctly, and evade three times as much with my dagger attack.

AlexRD.7914:

We’re very good in condition damage, able to deal long lasting burning with traps, our spikes aren’t that great but neither is anyone’s with the quickness nerf. Have you seen a healing regen ranger? It’s just wow, so impossible to kill.

Agreed, the Ranger has a great amount of condition damage. This issue though that all classes face with conditions, is that they do not synergize well with any other class, including two Rangers themselves. With Poison, and Burning not stacking for damage, and Bleeds maxing out at 25 stacks along with Vulnerability, condition damage isn’t enough for group on group play.

AlexRD.7914:

We never were supposed to excel in anything. We’re supposed to be good at everything, not very good in one thing. Elementalists however, stole our role. Now they do everything very well.

The Elementalist will always be the jack of all trades that excels in many areas because they have access to a lot of possibilities, many of which work better than other classes. We have yet to see an invulnerability build yet.

precisely…

killahmayne.9518:

I’ve been using my ranger in WvW over my warrior, so let me give you my perspective on these two classes as they are more often compared.

Sure, warrior has more burst than a ranger. But a warriors burst is not guaranteed and is inconsistent at best and requires us to be in danger for the most part. A number 3 on the rifle will almost never land all shots on a competent player, they will dodge after the second shot. Hundred Blades from a greatsword, uhhh yeah, try going into a crowd of 10 people, rooting yourself and hoping to hit more than one person for more than one hit. Killshot is nice if you spec into full zerker, but it too is quite inconsistent, it can easily be evaded, blocked or someone could move out of range. The auto-attack from rifle sucks too.

The longbow is nice for a warrior, but our #2 and #4 is quite inconsistent, it pretty much requires melee range. Practical for mostly sieging, the F1 and #3 is very slow.

The ranger I find, despite not having quite as much burst has way more consistent DPS than a warrior does. The auto-attack on a short-bow is pretty nice, very fast and has some nice utility skills on it. The longbow is an excellent weapon too, especially the #2 and the #5 and does nice damage overall.

You guys get a 50% endurance regeneration with relatively little investment, I need to use a utility slot on my warrior to get 33% Endurance Regen. You guys have access to protection and Bark Skin which is pretty much a protection at 25% health. Warriors have zero protection. Rangers can be pretty tanky, they have one of the better utility heals, they have many evades on their weapons. A bunker ranger in sPvP is currently more viable than a bunker warrior. A rangers version of Endure Pain (protect me) is 6 seconds every 60 seconds, and 48 if you spec into the shout mastery. A warriors endure pain is 4 seconds every 90 seconds. Rangers have great access to vigor and regeneration and have better and more accessible condition removal. A ranger simply has better survival mechanisms than a warrior, and this is mostly for being a class that sits at the back shootin kitten in WvW.

Don’t even get me started on muddy terrain, an AoE immobilize and cripple every 30 seconds, or even less if traited? It lasts on the ground for 20 seconds? While alot of classes will have single target cripples and immobilizes with the same cooldown, yes please!

I actually very much have enjoyed the ranger for the limited time I have used it in WvW and do not think they suck at all. I think the sword is pretty awesome to mix it up a little bit once in a while and the torch is cool too.

i am happy that you enjoy ranger over a warrior my friend but by your description of the warrior you are doing alot of things wrong in that department…

and saying a bunker ranger is more survivable than a bunker warrior is a tad bit overkill… i have them both and while bunker ranger can output more damage in a given time, i, as a warrior can outlast anything and more while tossing out heals for allies if i want to….

it seems to me you are comparing as dps a trap ranger with a bunker warrior and then as survivability a bunker ranger with a zerker warrior…

all in all, i meant no offense by any means and i honestly am glad you find rangers more effective than warriors.

indeed… but even with the best of micromanagement i do not rely on my pet anyways… as it dies in seconds in WvW…

KensaiZen.3740:

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Unparralelled archers… any other class can use 2 types of bows?

I think the description is too vague and leaves too much for peoples expectations and assumptions.

i happen to be a national archer meself… (hence the interest in the archer type rangers/classes)… now i am competeing in the compound bows….

i can also shoot olympic recurves or traditional wooden longbows….

being able to use all these does not make me an “unparralel archer”… looking at my scores when i shoot with each of them can easily tell you that… that makes me compound bow competitionist… who also shoots other types of bows as a hobby!

i dont see an assumption there… but again my friend that is just me…

So are you comparing yourself against other archers or are you comparing yourself against a fencer who knows how to use a hunting bow?

Unparraleld archer. I dont see any other archers in the game. Comparing it to theif and warrior. I think ranger wins on this one easily.

Well that is not the case… and if a fencer who happens to use a hunting bow, can be a lot more effective than “the unparallel archer” i actually suspect the definition of the archer…

you may find the bow / play with a bow more effective than me playing my thief… thats good… but after having played all 3 professions with a bow that is not my experience…

The theif sbow falls into a niche roll. I dont think there is any thief out there who only uses it without swapping. Ive seen very few a few months ago but they really werent that good. A warrior who only uses Lbow is just as bad. They have those ranged options but the class was nit designed for it.

Rangers can use lbow/sbow for all ranged situations. In this respect they are unmatched.

i must remind you that in my original post i made clear that i am basing my opinion on WvW environment… thief shortbow has much more effectiveness than ours and warrior longbow is superior to ours in there in my experience…

and in there i am a much more effective ranged class either with my warrior rifle/longbow setup or my thief on shortbow/double pistols setup if i want to…

as a ranger being able to wield longbow / shortbow at the same time does not mean you re a more accomplished ranged class than the others…

KensaiZen.3740:

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Unparralelled archers… any other class can use 2 types of bows?

I think the description is too vague and leaves too much for peoples expectations and assumptions.

i happen to be a national archer meself… (hence the interest in the archer type rangers/classes)… now i am competeing in the compound bows….

i can also shoot olympic recurves or traditional wooden longbows….

being able to use all these does not make me an “unparralel archer”… looking at my scores when i shoot with each of them can easily tell you that… that makes me compound bow competitionist… who also shoots other types of bows as a hobby!

i dont see an assumption there… but again my friend that is just me…

So are you comparing yourself against other archers or are you comparing yourself against a fencer who knows how to use a hunting bow?

Unparraleld archer. I dont see any other archers in the game. Comparing it to theif and warrior. I think ranger wins on this one easily.

Well that is not the case… and if a fencer who happens to use a hunting bow, can be a lot more effective than “the unparallel archer” i actually suspect the definition of the archer…

you may find the bow / play with a bow more effective than me playing my thief… thats good… but after having played all 3 professions with a bow that is not my experience…

Chopps.5047:

I never said anything about rocket science. I just asked a simple question and somehow got a mile long response. I’m not reading that, dude. I have no opinion on the matter. You said “meaningful time” and I wanted a definition. So sue me.

i did not mean to be rude or offend you…

here… fixed it for you…

“so as a resume answer to your question… some prof requires lots of time to get the hang of it… like ranger… mesmer etc… some requires less based on your style of play… such as a heal or boon guardian… that is a “meaningful time” i spent”

KensaiZen.3740:

Unparralelled archers… any other class can use 2 types of bows?

I think the description is too vague and leaves too much for peoples expectations and assumptions.

i happen to be a national archer meself… (hence the interest in the archer type rangers/classes)… now i am competeing in the compound bows….

i can also shoot olympic recurves or traditional wooden longbows….

being able to use all these does not make me an “unparralel archer”… looking at my scores when i shoot with each of them can easily tell you that… that makes me compound bow competitionist… who also shoots other types of bows as a hobby!

i dont see an assumption there… but again my friend that is just me…

its not rocket science Chopps… for some professions, based on the role you play… lets assume i want to be a healy guardian… its is quite easy to set up your gear and traits… you are set to go… you learn how to play and, your pros and cons and develop a play style for that…

on the other hand for other professions, lets say thief or elementalist or warrior, assuming i want to go dps… since there are various options… it may take a while until you find your sweet spot and feel you are bringing something on the table…

among all the classes i played i ve spent the most time on my ranger… as its being my main… i think i have every single set of armor type (within the logical measures… i dont have givers set for example… or full cleric set) all sets of weapons exotic as in the armor dept, and all sorts of jewelery including a few ascended pieces… been playing since betas… so i can honestly say i have tried almost every possible logical build out there…

i ve tried to experiment ins and outs of every build even tho some felt really odd to my playstyle… without prejudices… and i must say i am not a great player but i know my way around…

the problem is with effort i put in the ranger to be viable, when i put the same effort in ANY of my other classes i am actually good if not great… (thats whats been told to me by my guildmates when they ask me to bring in my warrior/guardian/necro etc… to the WvW area… never my ranger)

so the conclusion is either i miraculously am above average in every other class but i simply cant get the hang of the ranger and i suck in that… or there is something wrong with the class… i suspect the latter…

so as a resume answer to your question… some prof requires lots of time to get the hang of it… like ranger… mesmer etc… some requires less based on your style of play… such as a heal or boon guardian… that is a “meaningful time” i spent

awe extender.1908:

Seyyah.6135:

…..

Dear A-net… in your Ranger Profession page, besides you have false description of the class, you have traps icon in the spirits explanation section and spirits icon for traps section… THAT IS how much attention you pay to us rangers…

…….

LOL never noticed that!

Shame ……..

hehe… graphics designer… comes with the job…

of none…

Thats how i see rangers… whatever i base my opinion on… weapon based or role based…

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

the above description, to me, seems that we supposed to be a great ranged class… (unparalelled=best actually but oh well)…

so after having leveled every class to 80 and have had meaningful time with each of them in WvW i come to the conclusion that rangers are hopeless… and definitely not going in the direction of above description… more and more we are forced to be melee heavy to be half-effective…

role based…

dps… get well anything BUT a ranger… and a healy guardian…
heal… get a guardian…
condition damage… get a necro… mesmer… engineer…
tank… get serious!!! (yeah bunker build right? sigh)
burst… get thief… warrior…
ranged… get a warrior for longbow… and i wish i had the thieves shortbow…

weapon based…
sword… warrior and thieves do it better
dagger… what???
longbow… warrior does it better
shortbow… thief does it lot better
greatsword… warrior guardian and hell even mesmer do it better…
axes… umm warrior rules…
warhorn… chuckles
torch… well this one is actually good on rangers… so we may actually use it…

all in all whatever we do the next guy with another class does it better… there is NOT ONE thing i can say “hey i can do this better on my ranger” except being a lootbag…

before you flame on i AM speaking on WvW basis… and for you who thinks this post has no constructive criticism here you go…

Dear A-net… in your Ranger Profession page, besides you have false description of the class, you have traps icon in the spirits explanation section and spirits icon for traps section… THAT IS how much attention you pay to us rangers…

Regards…
grumpy is out

Hmm… “fractals” are really a small aspect to GW2… I for example tried them… hated them and never touched them again…

And seeing that designers acknowledging our problems over fractals and only in pet design gives me the idea that “rangers” has no hope for near future to be viable in WvWvW or sPvP (except 2 builds which are struggling against able players and they are not viable in WvWvW anyways)…

Tell you what… give the %40 effectiveness of other classes to an unfinished (trying to keep it civilized here) AI and watch their forums flame on…

if you are persistent that at least 40% of my performance comes from a pet, that pet shoul NEVER die, for me to have my full potencial all times at my disposal as ALL the other classes have.

But all in all… i see how the ranger is being monitored and getting fixes… this was probably an eye opener for most of us…

regards…

paleeshi.1924:

I have 4 lvl 80 chars now with full exotics set (except for ranger). Mesmer, Engineer, Ele and Ranger. Mesmer was the first character I made and payed for about 4 months, til I re-rolled into ranger, then Engi, then ranger again, then Ele and now playing ranger again too.

Mesmer and Engineer are those I barely touch while I play Ele and Ranger equally much. So for those who usually say “ranger is a broken class, go play mesmer or warrior”. Well, guess what, been there, done that. I find ranger being much more fun and I am completely sick to death playing mesmer.

You can argue that that other classes can do what you do but much better, well maybe, but in the end it’s about having fun. I guess the thing with rangers is that I just love playing with bows…

Now let’s look at the argument of any other class doing everything better than ranger. There are 8 classes and most can go support, bunker, dps, control or some mix of those mentioned.. So if you only want to play pure DPS, should everyone play the class that statistically do highest numbers of damage? Let’s say it’s a warrior (although I don’t know for a fact, let it just be an example). Does that mean everyone who plays DPS on other classes are idiots because they are “less effective” compared to the warrior? Or lets take 2 warriors, one dps and one bunker and then a zerker Ranger. You cannot then say that the 2nd warrior is gonna be better than the zerker ranger DPS wise, because it’s obviously not true. Will you then say that playing bunker warrior is stupid because you should do more DPS than this ranger guy here and if you want to be bunker go play a guardian instead? So where will that lead us in the end..? You gonna kick both zerker Ranger and the bunker Warrior and take 2 more DPS warriors instead?

That just shows a very narrow minded game play and in reality that’s not how it works. I won’t deny there’s some elitist groups that only want warriors or mesmer for best dps. But you cannot simply compare a class to a class without taking into account the variation of builds.

An one more thing too. Even if you want to look at it purely statistically, reality is not so black and white. For example, I can’t even count how many times I’ve been the last man standing in a dungeon party saving us from whip at bosses (what is that close ranged dps warrior good for when he dies from AoE while I stand 1500 units away with my bow, safely and alive?). Nor can I count how many times I’ve beaten thieves, warriors, mesmers, etc, in pvp. There is always a skill level present and you cannot deny it. I hear many people argue that “well, this player is bad at his class, it doesn’t count”. But most people are more or less an average player (as well as me). Really bad and really good players are more of an exception than a rule. So you can show all the numbers and statistics and theory crafting all you want. But obviously rangers can work just as well as any other class despite their annoying bugs and broken pets.

It is not haters gonna hate anyways issue but i beleive you misunderstood the whole point…

The point is not comparing warrior DPS – Warrior Bunker – Zerker ranger and which one to pick…

It is the pure issue of the roles available to rangers can be done more effectively plus bringing the utilities alongside by other class… Now for the ranger enthusiasts like me (and possibly you) you try to put a huge effort and try to keep the gap between the two as close as possible… and try to be useful…

On the other hand unfortunately you do NOT have the FULL control over your playstyle… whatever style you pick AT LEAST 40% of your effectiveness comes from pets/spirits that are simply broken (in some cases even up to 60-70%… like in a bunker build you depend on your pet heavily for damage).

And sadly i beleive in the hands of an able player a bunker warrior can do more DPS than a zerker ranger as he will have AT LEAST double as long uptime compared to the “zerker ranger”

The class’ shortcomings also depends on where you play, in PvE you are “managable and maybe fun” not overall broken… in sPvP and 1vs1 you can do OK If and only IF you go one of the two known builds… in WvWvW you are simply BROKEN…

that is my experience

regards

Valroth.7138:

The ranger is my favorite class too and I have invested far too much in many sets of exotic armor trying to find a sweet spot somewhere. I think I have found my comfort zone, at least for now, with a GS/SB Hybrid Beastmaster build. I’m uploading a video soon.

Ranger seems simple enough on the surface, but it has a lot of depth and nuance once you explore your options, as I’m sure you’re aware. Perhaps your idea of a classical ranger isn’t quite the same as Anet’s?

Anet and I dont see eye to eye on the classical ranger definition indeed… that is a given…

And yes Ranger in GW2 has a steep curve in learning its full potential…

But my issue is not only the definition of the ranger or the depth of it. I beleive invested same amount of time to a ranger and x class… trying all ins and outs of it, any average player can be lot more effective with the “X” class for now… that goes for any other weapoon or fighting style than bows…

Any fighting style you pick as a ranger, given the chance the “x” class does it a lot better…

I never had anything that i could say “hey i could have done this with my ranger a lot better!” that IS my main issue…

But yes i would love to have an effective “archer type” ranger too))

Vox Hollow.2736:

Yeah, I suppose there’s really nothing catering to the Sniper demographic in this game.

Thief’s got the sneaky, but lacks the ranged beatdown. Warrior’s got the ranged beatdown, but lacks the sneaky. Wintersday Scout had it nailed, so I know Anet’s got it in them to marry the two somewhere. But for some reason or another that’s apparently just not in the cards for any class to inherit.

It’s a shame you can’t really find your niche.
I’m not really sure what else to say, really.
Good luck to you.

I humbly disagree on thieves lacking the ranged beatdown… i can dish out 1.9-2.7 autoattacks (crit of course) with my SB… that s just autoattack and it ricochets by default… nr.2 ability does 4-6k crit damage AoE (with 25 stacks of bloodlust these numbers) and can be spammed…

for single target you have 2xpistols which gives way more “beatdown” than a ranger SB…

Warrior is just superior single target sniper with rifle (oddly) especially with their F1 skill..

just my personal experience…

I ve been around and playing MMOs for a long time… loong time… so i ve tried almost all of them… never seen a game that can achieve in ranger class to a satisfactory degree…

they are mostly simply broken in many games… in a very few they are on the other extreme and massively OP… very very few…

so here i am in GW2 having a ranger main, all classes and crafting skills maxed… where i can go about almost any of my classes, i decide a way to go (AoE or Conditions or Burst with defense or offense) get meself a build and be useful almost everywhere… PvE/PvP/sPvP/WvWvW… with only minor tweaks… i seldomly change a few skills and trait majors or maybe a few pieces of armor and jewelery… even more rare occasions i change builds…

on my ranger i have all the exotic sets available out there (within limits of logic… i am missing out giver one and cleric one) in desperate hope of getting a viable one in any given circumstance… i ve changed my build and tried every logical composition out there… but still it just feels out of place…

Dont get me wrong i am a decent player, i do good in WvWvW, i always usually come on first 3 in sPvP… well PvE is just a chaotic place… i think i do good in there too but lately i am hearing more and more “fractals 10+ something run… NO RANGERS”… although i do not fully agree i see the point in those refusals too…

then i hop on my lets say… necro… i have crafted 1 set of armor… 1 set of jewelry… never touched my build after i hit 80… i very rarely switch nr.7 and 8 abilities based on what we need in group/zerg/spvp… and i am done… i am awesome everywhere… same as my thief… guardian (man you gotta love healing guardians)… elementalist (they just do not die if they dont want to)… etc…

but i want to play an archer type ranger… maybe because i always played that… maybe i do archery in RL as well… maybe i just love it… but unfortunately it has no viable place or options in here… so i am on a virge of quiting the game… do you care? no… Anet? of course not… maybe a few friends in my guild…

its just sad that here i was thinking noone can ever fail more than “bioware” in a ranger/hunter like class, yet Anet acheived that. And as another post stated in these forums rangers are not even in the priority list i beleive…

sad indeed…

PS: yes i know trap rangers and bunker rangers can 1vs2 / 1vs3 below average players… been there done that… but thats not the point… we are nor versatile neither viable in multiple situations in some of people claims… and yes i know this post does not bring any constructive addition or anything new but i needed to rant… thas it…

/rant off

Dont get me wrong… i love GW2 and think it has great potential…

unfortunately for me, my favorite class in MMOs is borderline “broken” in this game… a few months back i had hopes for my ranger… now i have none…

even when/if they fix the class it ll be too late for me as i will be focused/leveled/geared/learned “x” class which is already working much better than a ranger…

yeah i mean including “frowned upon” engineer…

grumps

by the way has any of you seen Mr. RangerResponsible after they have implemented so called HUGE life improvement for the rangers? no? hmm…

aah i see…

thanks for clearing that up… on the other hand in this case LB damage indeed sucks big time… sigh

one should be idiot/afk to take that damage in WvW … which is very rarely the case…

So i ve been paying attention lately and i am pretty sure that the #2 ability does NOT AT ALL do the damage it says… or people/NPCs suddenly gain 30000+ hp as soon as i equip my longbow…

i tried that on equal mobs in the cursed shore… put me pet on passive and targeted a risen villager…

started strait with #2 longbow and my hits were
1100+1900+2900+3450+4400+6500+7200+9200+11400 then a few 1000+2200+1400+1200 auto shots… and it was dead
so that gives me roughly 50-55k hitpoints…

then i switched to my shortbow and trgeted risen villager a bit behind that…
started only autoattacks… landed 16 of them each of which were 850 to 1100 damage… i do not have a condi build and my conds tick just for 50-57… so give, being generous, 5k of cond. damage in there… that gives me 20-25k hitpoints in total…

havent cahenged my gear/build in between… my bows are both beserker… havent eaten any food or such…

i have tried it on varios different “same type mobs” and the result is always the same…

now either i am clueless and missing something here (which i doubt)… or there is a divine reason for this to happen that is known only by Anet…

but my conclusion is my main character that i ve invested on since day 1 so much is broken even beyond the facts that us all rangers already know…

i was always astonished how i could not kill a thief landing 40000 total damage with my longbow… until i played one and saw how actually they can never have that amount of HP / toughness / healing power…

regards

Sol.4310:

After watching more and more videos on youtube and videos I’ve recorded, something really stands out, ranged weapons get Evaded/Obstructed and melee weapons get Evaded/Missed, I never seen ranged attack get the “Miss” once, only “Evaded/Obstructed” and by only seeing Obstructed we think its a bug naturely when its really just a miss.

I took good look at Xsorus.2507, video over and over again the projectile missed its target and then says Obstructed, makes me think maybe Anet has designed ranged to say Obstructed over Miss.

Take look at melee on youtube not once so far have I see them Obstructed but I have seem them miss there target.

We “Kite” melee so they miss, so why can’t they kite our projectiles and the term used is Obstructed, projectiles are not heat seeking missiles so there not going to suddenly change direction.

I understand what you described lad… but since i ve been playing ranger from betas and paying attention to this specific issue, to me it seems as follows…

melee;
- you get hits when you hit (naturally)
- you get misses and evaded when they back out or roll out
- you get blocks or “0” damage when they use an invulnerability skill
- you dont actually get many “obstructed” by another object (naturally again) since you always try to be on your opponents face and you do not usually put a tree or rock between you and your target.
- you get “invulnerable” when you exploit the level differences of the terrain. As of you can hit them and they have no way of reaching you.

ranged;
- you get hits when you hit (naturally)
- you get misses and evaded when they back out of range or roll out
- you get blocks or “0” damage when they use an invulnerability skill
- you should get “obstructed” if and only if you have a solid object between you and your target. IF YOU HAVE PIERCING TRAIT other players should not count as obstructions. You would only hit less to your original target since your main damage will land on the closer players first and gradually decrease. but no obstructions.
- you get “invulnerable” when you exploit the level differences of the terrain. As of you can hit them and they have no way of reaching you.

That seems to be the logic of the game… but i keep getting “obstructed” even when i pay attention to the opponents defensive skills and save my hitters for the appropriate moment when i am at the sweet spot (which can be described as i am out of melee range and not so far out at the max range so that they can get out of it by a step back) and shoot them at the open area… no trees… no rocks… even ground… not even my pet

(i do not agree the “hit box of my pet” issue but for the sake of eliminating that risk i disable my pet)…

correct me if i am wrong… but based on the logic above, the amount of “obstructed” we get is more than a verbal description issue.

Even if it is… it just nullifies the reason to use a bow since its the most ineffective and inaccurate weapon in game. Judging again by the amount of “misses/obstructions” we get.

Above description is a bit hypocrite to me as of having the least accurate character while the main attribute for us is the “precision”… just seems weird

regards.

well… i have lvl 80 ranger… guardian… thief… warrior… elementalist…

and i can tell you first hand that none of the others face “obstructed” issue as much as ranger… fact… the reason? i dont know… but they simply dont…

I know we have a lot of issues… and i am not really the whining type in the forums…

But for pitys sake if nothing else please fix this urgent… it just makes ranger frustrating at the least especially in WvW… you do everything you can, swap pets, use according buffs, apply openers and try to get every broken advantage your class supposed to offer in a fight, just to end up seeing “obstructed, obstructed, obstructed”

That is really discouraging to continue playing a ranger…

/rant off

regards…