Showing Posts For Skliros.1058:
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Also putting my name to this. Any sort of sign, even saying “necros are fine” would be welcome, as it would clarify your current standpoint on the class. As of now, we have no idea.
The problems people are having with Mesmers are largely because they build their necromancers glass-cannon style, and Mesmers love to kill squishy casters. The key is to make sure you have around 27k hp, and a 1:1 ratio of vitality to toughness. The specifics of that are in another thread here. Once they have a hard time taking you down with illusion burst, it’s mostly just a matter of outplaying them, and timing your interrupts without getting distracted by the clones. I have killed Mesmers in sPvP all by myself, when they clearly knew what they were doing. It wasn’t easy, and I was sweating by the end of it, but they can be killed. It’s probably best to avoid dueling them 1v1, though.
1h Sword has a ton of mobility, what with your leap, and the bleeds are pretty great. Have you tried that? If not, I’d give it a shot. You might like it better.
Try either Wells with a staff and axe/warhorn for tagging lots of mobs in events, or pure conditions with scepter/dagger, Blood is Power, and Epidemic. They’re both a lot of fun, and very effective for those big events with lots of mobs.
Axe DPS is pretty low. The real damage from the build comes from buffing Well of Suffering with all that power and crit, and then watching it slice away health from a boss while WoD and WoB keep your allies safe. The key with dungeons and most endgame PvP isn’t massive damage, it’s outlasting the boss, and a well necro does that very, very well.
I’m content to wait for it. I’m fairly certain, as things stand, that a major necromancer buff will be the first balance change they make, and if I’m doing alright now, then I can only get better when they improve my class. One thing Anet has shown with their games is that they’re never afraid to make sweeping changes to a class if it helps the game. I feel like the necromancer isn’t in a “finished” state. It was way, way too strong in PvP and PvE, and the release date was sneaking up, so they nerfed us nice and hard to put a band-aid on the problem to make the date. Now that they don’t have to worry about their game getting out on time, and once they don’t have all hands on deck handling support tickets, they’ll sort out our traits, improve our other builds, and fix the minions. And then we’ll all be able to sit around with our awesome doom wizards a year from now and regale the newbies with tales of “how it used to be”.
To the guy who said about power build: Necro can’t run power build, since they lack of damage also when you are fully specced in Power/Critical damage compared to the other professions. So, who needs trait useful to a build that anyway you won’t use?
Have you tried Power/Precision wells? It makes them hurt a LOT more than you would think.
Each stack of bleed behaves as a separate damage source. 10 stacks of bleed? 10 ticks of your bleed damage each second. I think we’re all sort of saying the same thing, but to put it succinctly, the damage from bleed comes from putting out large stacks of it. Math time. I get 120 damage ticks from my bleeds as my default conditionmancer build in sPvP. using BiP and scepter/dagger, it is by no means difficult to get 13 stacks of bleed on a target in a few moments. That is 13 ticks of 120 damage each second. 1560 damage every second, after their damage reduction, before any other source of damage is applied, and if I’m running epidemic, I can cause that in a large AoE as well. Pretty darn respectable.
Don’t flame him. Just because someone kicks dirt, doesn’t mean we need to kick it back. These forums are brand new, and we have a golden opportunity to make a helpful, tight-knit community here that can effect real change in our beloved game. I would hate to see it devolve into people hurling insults over minor differences.
I love 99% of these, especially the DS changes. You clearly put a lot of thought into those. My only issue is that I feel your vampiric trait would be pretty OP in situations where you’re laying down a lot of AoE. 5% can add up pretty fast, and turn you into a lifestealing juggernaut when you’re hitting 10 foes with wells. Other than that, well done!
What am I a 13 year old girl? Christ if you can’t handle reading the issues like it is, then go away. I’m just sayin’ it like it is, if you can’t handle it then take a period pill or swap a new tampon.
This. This right here. You’re not “saying it like it is”, you’re flaming. Even in this post. Insulting people is never going to be a good way to get something fixed. A lot of us have tried giving you advice on how we succeed as a class with the necro, in both PvP and PvE, but you don’t want to hear it. You seem to just want everyone to validate your belief that you’re not doing well because your class is useless, not because your build needs work or your spell rotation is off. Have you ever considered that maybe, even after “200 hours”, you still have things to learn about the class? I know I do. That’s why I’m in the forums. Not to troll people and complain.
As far as what I agree with, Jagged horror definitely needs work, and all of the life siphon traits need TLC as well. The condition loss on enemy kill is indeed lackluster, I feel with all the tools we already have to manage our conditions it doesn’t help much. Also, if I’m trying to transfer conditions instead of remove them, it could be pretty counterproductive. As far as PvE goes, you have pretty clearly never set foot in an explorable dungeon, because those things are hard. And with boss fights, a Well necromancer can perform pretty gloriously, since sustained dps is where we shine the most. Drop your wells in rotation, and let them pulse while stacking bleeds and poisons. You’ll do at least as much damage as everyone else, if not a tad more. Also, death shroud can throw nice 4-5k numbers up pretty consistently.
A lot more people would listen to your ideas if you did something besides rant and flame everyone who disagrees with you. Some of the points in here are extremely valid, but the whole post is soured because of the childish remarks and the whining.
This is going to be very, very tough for necromancer, because we don’t have any abilities that buff our endurance recharge rate, and our only melee weapon, the dagger, is pretty lacking right now. If you absolutely must play Dagger mainhand, take a Focus offhand, get your chill off early, and try to kite them within Corrosive Poison Cloud. Remember to use Death Shroud for the extra health and damage. Hopefully you’ll do enough dps that by the time you run out of endurance, the mobs are either dead or close to it. At level 14, traits aren’t going to matter too much, since you can’t unlock a minor slot yet.
It seems Dictan really did his homework with this one. Well done, sir.
It’s been confirmed that it does not in fact work. There are several traits, all related to healing, that aren’t functioning with necro, as well as other classes. It’s definitely some kind of bug.
No, you don’t get it from the bone minions, but you do get it with a jagged horror. Watch the green bubbles. Also, stand near a guard being attacked by a mob. It’s buggy, but most of the time you get lifeforce from the friendly guard dying.
I can 100-0 glass cannon-type builds in PvP if I can get the drop on them with Death Shroud. 1-1-1-2-4-3, drop out and land a few autoattacks. They’re down, and you have a full health bar. This is with a build that focuses almost entirely on using axe to buff life force, while taking any Death Shroud enhancement I can find. Power and Toughness gear. So, it’s good, but you really have to spec into it to show its true potential. Also, it’ll take a lot more work to bring down a Guardian or defensive Warrior, so choose your targets.
To clear things up, we get lifeforce any time anything, be it ally, enemy, or neutral, dies nearby. The tooltip clarifies that.
It seems that necromancer is the odd duck out within this balance philosophy. Most classes can solo PvP without having to rely on synergy with other professions. They can also trait themselves for heavy team support/dependency. Necromancer is forced into dependency through conditions or less viable DD axe/dagger MH builds. But really, the biggest issue isn’t that we need others to carry us — it’s that alternatives to squishy conditionmancer are poor. We have one competitive cookie-cutter build for PvP, everything else is just an easy kill.
If the point of SPvP is teamwork, synergy and cohesion — the DD axe/dagger MH necromancer is hurting their team by denying a spot to a DD thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, or a power/crit engineer, or a guardian, etc.. Classes that are much more proficient at dealing direct damage.
At this point in the game- you pretty much hit the nail on the head. The necromancer, mesmer, and engineer to a lesser extent definitely have a much harder time soloing, just due to their low single-target damage capability. For necro, I feel like axe or D/Warhorn should have been our strong solo builds… but their traits are too spread out to spec for effectively. They’re strong in their own right, but when held up against the single-target damage of other classes they pale a bit.
My overall point, however, is this: Necromancers are in a state right now that, yes, needs work to be able to do some things better. But right now, before anything has been changed or fixed, as arguably the most problem-ridden class in the game… We still do really well in both PvP and PvE. We can nitpick all we want, and complain that we should be doing better, but at the end of the day, I clean house in both sPvP and WvWvW. I play three very different builds (Staff/Wells, squishy BiP/epidemic, and Power Axe) and I do well with all of them. I feel a bit pigeonholed in that I had to shelve my Minon Master burst build for the time being, and dagger mainhand is underwhelming, but I’m more than willing to wait for Anet to get around to that. The class doesn’t suck. We’re not as good at some things as we are as others, but we’re still pretty darn terrifying in PvP, and a valuable addition to a party in dungeons. And, I I’m happy with that. To me, the necro feels cooler than the other classes, somehow, so I’ll keep playing it. Maybe playing a GS warrior would give me more badges, and my rank would be even higher, but I wouldn’t be having as much fun. And fun is worth more than imaginary points any day.
I don’t think they did an admiral job at all. Necromancer is broke in spvp.
Yes. We know you think that.
Interesting. I’ll have to retest it, because I could have sworn I saw a difference. Perhaps you’re right.
I want to be able to own other players with damage and it should be a build we can go into. It’s not.
No class should have to rely on OTHER classes to be effective unless that is the build you choose. This is the problem.
Ignoring the abusive part here. You need to pick a different class. In GW1, the necromancer was a supporting class. There were a couple good damage builds, like there are here, but overall it was a supporter. In GW2, the necromancer has kept its original theme, which Arenanet has been abundantly clear about in all the releases about the profession. Guild Wars 2 is not a solo game. There is no solo PvP for a good reason. Not a single one of the classes is meant to exceed all by itself. It’s in the name: Guild Wars. A guild is a large group of people unified by a cause. Go get yourself a couple good friends, queue up, and enjoy the game as it was designed to be played. Or keep running solo into organized teams and dying horribly. My guess is you’re rolling a Warrior or Guardian right now, and you’ll die horribly with those, too. Teamwork, dude. It’s how you win games.
Wells alone can get you through a dungeon, but I’d run with primarily the staff. Axe works just fine for the tougher mobs after you’ve thrown down your staff AoEs. Just make sure to rotate your wells properly so you always have them up when you need them.
Do the poison stacks created by my combo fields work off my Condition Damage?
in Necromancer
Posted by: Skliros.1058
I’m fairly certain it goes off of your Condition Damage. The way the mechanics work, it should use the stats of whoever sees the numbers for the skill.
I’m almost positive that’s just a bug. They should fix it soon, it would be preposterous for them not to.
if our traits are completely screwed, what “roll” is this you’re talking about lmao? And what class DOESN’T play a better “roll” that we play in spvp? THERE ISN’T ONE.
You’re saying we excel at the roll we were intended to play, then say our trait line needs serious rework. You’re a freaking hypocrite.
Role. Sorry, that was bothering me. And you’re not "lmao"ing. You’re sitting at your computer, and you’re extremely mad, because clearly, someone is WRONG on the internet about imaginary death wizards.
However, I would like some clarification on the idea of “intended roles” as it would clear up a lot of my concerns. I was under the impression (from playing other classes and reading dev interviews over the months) that there are no “intended roles” in the sense that class X is pigeon holed into role Y.
I think I used the wrong phrasing there. I didn’t mean a role as in tank/healer/dps. I see the role of the necromancer as a whole as leaning heavily towards the supporting side of things. We have pure DPS builds, sure. Axe is awesome in the right hands. But the damage from it won’t be as good as, say, an elementalist. We can, however, assist groups and turn the tide of large fights better than almost any other class or build. We can heal, we can AoE bleed, we can blind, we can cripple, we can chill, and we can throw conditions back into people’s faces. And we can do it all at the same time, with tons of mobility. One necromancer in a group can make the whole party hit a whole heck of a lot harder, and THAT is our role. Did that clear it up?
Siphon used to be very strong, but they nerfed it early because everybody was speccing only for that. They’ll probably balance it soon, but as it stands? Yeah, it’s weak-ish. Overall, I think our wells are pretty good. We could have used another damage well to give us the option of pure damage output, but overall I’d say they do their job admirably. And Dark fields are fantastic for dungeons and PvP, so I’m not complaining.
You’re definitely on the right track. Your build link isn’t working for me, but I can visualize what you’re getting at regardless. My only suggestion would be to make sure you have sufficient toughness and vitality. We don’t have the burst to murder someone before they can respond, so we need to be able to last for long enough to get our spells out and start the Death Shroud/ Plague Form dance to keep our health bars full. I would prioritize toughness over vitality, because we have plenty of health as it is.
I feel like dagger on the necro is a hair’s breadth away from being viable. I see so many good synergies and traits for it… but then the traits are only accessible if I give up some of my core traits that would be infinitely more useful. If they rejigger the traits, and give us maybe just one more way as dagger to avoid damage, it could be fantastic. But for now, I can’t help feeling that axes are the best way to go.
Yep. Punched myself.
I think our Trait lines need serious rework.
I definitely agree with this, and with the rest of your post. The traits are pretty scattered, and I usually end up making sacrifices with my traits that I feel other classes don’t have to make. My overall point is that although there are quite a few things that could stand a buff or some overhauling, we are certainly not a useless class, and we excel at the role we were intended for.
Wow. If this is actually the case, I’m going to punch myself. Hard.
Okay. You’re a troll. I’m done trying to help you. Enjoy the game.
Now make toughness make my minions tougher and I’ll be on board.
Actually, I’m pretty sure it does affect your minions.
I have never, not once, had a problem in sPvP. From your tone and words, you seem to be trying to run around by yourself and kill mobs of players. I find a couple people, I stick close to them, and I use my enormous list of utility spells to allow us to take and hold any point against any number of people. Have you TRIED taking a point from a Guardian while Well of Darkness is sitting under him? It’s not going to happen. Your GS warrior buddy having trouble catching that ranger? Not any more he’s not, since that Legolas wannabe is now crippled and chilled for the remainder of their short life. You are a class designed to multiply the power of others exponentially. Running around solo expecting to be useful is kittening yourself on purpose, and costing other players victory. Side note: Necro right now is a very underplayed class. That means that most people, especially those still leveling, have no idea what your abilities do. Let them underestimate you, then Death Shroud and watch them run for their lives.
Conditionmancer is good. Axe is good if you build power. Wells are really good if you’re not running around by yourself. Death Shroud build is good. All these builds are pretty readily available with a quick google search, or even messing around with a trait calculator. The game isn’t even a month old. Take some time, experiment with different builds. Figuring out what works for you is half the fun. As for Minion Master PvP, it can work. But you need to use your minions perfectly, and you need to set yourself up to catch people by themselves, out of position. You have the potential to lock down a single target and kill them with burst before they realize what’s happening, but it takes timing and patience to set yourself up for the kill. Also half the time minions just stand around, so there’s that.
You’re absolutely right. Every build archetype should be viable both on land and underwater. So far, minions and wells are basically nonexistent underwater. I feel that’s a tremendous oversight on Anet’s part, but considering the focus on underwater combat, they’ll probably fix it soon. I have both faith and patience.
I personally stack Toughness over Vitality. We have a truly large pool of health for a caster already, and an entire extra health bar to play with. Also, Toughness lets me stay in Death Shroud a lot longer.
I prefer the necro staff sound over using the engie bomb kit with my mechanical keyboard.
This right here is the reason I stopped playing the class. My god, it’s like monkeys on typewriters.
For axe and staff, Power and Precision will do infinitely more than Condition damage. If you take a look at your Staff spells, the DoTs on your abilities are rather lackluster. The real damage is going to come from the initial tick, your Wells, and the penetrating autoattack. Axe is pretty self-explanatory why it benefits from Power and Crit. If you want a bleed/poison build, go with scepter, as Hadri pointed out.
You’re a necromancer. Condition and decondition in PvP. AoE at the line of skirmish. You will move it.
Well of Darkness by itself can turn the tide of a large fight. Blind is a truly powerful condition.
I think you just don’t grasp how PvP works in this game. I play as a heavy debuffer, transferring large stacks of conditions to a group and then holding them in place while the burst-damage professions mop up. And you know what? I feel powerful. I have Guardians and Warriors ask me for my build, so they can roll a necro. I don’t make big numbers appear, and I can’t face-tank 30 people, but I don’t need to. Also, two Epidemic necromancers working together can single-handedly murder an entire guild’s worth of players in 15 seconds. And since there’s no pathing spell animations, they can’t figure out where you are, either.
I dunno, the human necro’s exasperated “sigh I’ll have to make another one” fits the theme pretty well. Gives me a chuckle, anyway.
EDIT: Also “It lived a good life. Short… but good.”
Well, it’s a tad complex. Elementalists, when built right with the right gear, can do incredible damage. The numbers on their screen will always be twice yours. But that’s burst damage. If you pit a tanky condition necro who knows what they’re doing against an elementalist of the same skill, the necro will come out on top much of the time. Why? Look at all the utility your class gives you. You can soak up that up-front damage with your Death Shroud, then use your mobility and tankiness to run circles around the Ele while you stack bleeds and conditions that they are forced to try to get rid of rather than killing you. And you can bleed them faster than they can cleanse. If you want big numbers, may I suggest an Axes build with heavy focus on your Death Shroud? the 1 skill on DS is actually a pretty respectable nuke, especially if your bar is full. And power axes really, really hurt. Or you can use the aformentioned condition build. You won’t be getting big numbers, but you sure will be getting a lot of small ones. Your burst will be crap, but it’s probably the highest sustained AoE DPS in the game right now.
1. Necromancers can’t keep it on permanently, but we do have quite a few mobility skills, including teleportation (that also happens to cause explosions). We’re pretty nimble regardless, but if built for speed, we can really get going.
2. Power Axes. Ranged damage that, if micromanaged properly, leaves people wondering what happened to all that health they had a second ago. Not quite as godlike as, say, a rifle warrior, but it’s close, and we have a lot more utility. Also, necros can cause bleeding on critical hits, making them an awesome class to run Precision on.
3. Not only is our staff range 1200, but with a trait, we can also drop wells at 1200. Wells have an enormous AoE radius, so their actual effective range is quite a bit larger. This gives necromancers lots of opportunities for backline play, especially in WvW. Our wells are also excellent as combo fields, letting you put up a lot of damage and conditions very quickly.
I hope this answered some of your questions. If you’d like, I’d be happy to post some of the builds I mentioned, as well.
I’m almost positive the current state of the MM necro isn’t permanent by any means. It was pretty apparent in the BWEs that they were having severe issues balancing them for both PvP and PvE. I think they’ve probably just made the build non-viable until the balance team can figure out how to make it work. It’s better to have one build out of many not work quite right, than to have MM be the absolute best spec out of anything, eclipsing out the other builds. Heck, if MM worked as intended I wouldn’t have discovered the awesomesauce that is the Wellomancer.
Condition damage, simply put, improves every tick of every damage-over-time effect you have on an enemy. This at first doesn’t seem like a big deal, but when you play a condition-based build like scepter-dagger, or BiP/Epidemic (Or both!), that extra damage starts to add up really, really quickly. 13 stacks of bleeding, each doing 25% more damage than usual, can reduce even veteran mobs to jelly pretty quickly.
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