That wouldn’t help.
What we need is better map design. The current maps are designed to allow for each team to ALWAYS be able to attack the other two teams. This is why the top 2 teams sometimes gang up on the bottom team: because they can.
Planetside, especially PS1 but still true for PS2, has maps designed such that the two bottom teams often can’t fight each other even if they want too — the winning team is in the way. Each team starts at a separate corner of a map many times larger than Eternal and you have to advance one sector at a time; you can’t just drive across the map through the blue team in order to attack the red team. If the blue team is in the way you have to attack them just to REACH the red team.
So Planetside usually results in a 2v1 against whatever team owns most of the map. It’s just unavoidable.
GW2’s model appears to be designed to AVOID that, which doesn’t make any sense that I can think of.
Thief.
Also d/d ele I guess but nothing beats the escape power and 1v1 kill power (especially for clearing NPCs) like the thief.
I enjoy my engineer for roaming and with the right setup it’s really hard to stop me but I could hardly list it as a top tier class.
I’m in favor of customized kit appearances but I really wish they’d stop destroying the “look and feel” of the game by adding completely out-of-character items.
Like plushie Quaggan backpacks.
Sorry, I’m sure they’re popular enough, but you can’t go around creating a game where the main content is clearly meant to be “serious business” and then give everyone plushie stuffed animal backpacks. Or chef suits. Or dapper hats. It would be like playing a Star Wars game where every third Storm Trooper is wearing pink bunny slippers and a plushie face-hugger helmet because they bought them from the cash store. Totally ruins the environment.
I liked what Pirates of the Burning Sea did by adding a great deal of cash-store customization options, but they were all actually in theme.
Can’t say I favor the idea. A sever that’s losing will, ideally (under the upcoming system) tend to get matched with other servers more its level. Having mercenaries running in and out of servers takes us to the bad old days of unpredictable server rankings due to too much player movement.
Like okay, we’re losing, so we bring in mercenaries and now we’re winning and we gain a bunch of rating and next week we get creamed even worse because the mercenaries all left. Now we need even more, better mercenaries than before and if we win again, the problem just gets worse.
It’s better to make any player movement be more of a long-term investment than something that can easily change from week to week.
It’s not that rangers “suck”, really, just that other classes are a good deal superior at AE and large group effects. The ranger’s superior 1v1/small group abilities don’t play out as well in WvW where the guy you’re trying to focus down just runs behind the screen of 50 enemies.
It might also be nice to see an impact based on WHERE you’re killing people.
Like a modifier to existing WXP values:
I wanna say ranger is worst. Their selection of AE abilities is somewhat lackluster and that’s what you need for most of WvW. They’re easy to spike, too. They can be deadly 1v1 but come’on, it’s WvW, how many 1v1s do you see? The pet buff was great but still they’re more of a 1v1 class. Maybe they need a good AE pet, like a small firebreathing dragon. (There are some pets with AE abilities but they’re secondary and not very powerful.)
Rifle warriors are awful too. They should at least get penetration on their shots or something. (I think engineers are better rifle warriors than rifle warriors are.)
Best is still either thief or elementalist. The other classes have their uses but thief and elementalist are hard to go wrong with for effectiveness.
Do you have any plans so Wxp gain is not so heavily weighted to the upper tiers?
It would be nice if more WXP came from objectives and less from players. Presumably that’s what Anet is changing.
(Killing dolyak ambushes = 4 WXP per kill. 4?!? So if I escort a dolyak all the way to Stonemist I’ll get like 24 WXP. …wooooo)
1) Arrow carts must require a firing path to the target, like engineer grenades, OR direct line of sight to the targeted ground, like Ranger abilities.
This fixes the zoom exploit.
2) The first new WXP ability in the oil tree should be “Oil Bucket”. It lets you go up to a functional burning oil pot and obtain your own 1-shot pot of oil (30 second duration, 1 use). Like the boiling oil, it has a small horizontal range but a large vertical range — you are meant to drop it over the sides of walls. This is to make up for the fact that arrow carts will no longer be able to defend against things up against the wall.
3) Siege Might will do the following:
1 point – +1% siege damage
2 points – +2% siege damage (total)
3 points – Protection while using siege
4 points – +5% siege damage (total)
5 points – Stability while using siege
That will make it waaay more useful and tempting than it is right now.
I don’t think eyefinity is the problem. I’ve tried the “stretched window” thing and while it lets you see more, you still can’t zoom out enough to see everything you’d like.
There is a well-known actual cheat causing the problem.
Anet will probably have to change the way arrow carts work — if they fired actual projectiles then they could work like engineer grenades where you don’t necessarily need line of sight to your target but you also can’t fire directly through walls.
If you play the engineer as a node keeper turrets are fine.
That’s really only true if they ignore your turrets. If they’re smart, they realize they can kill your turrets very quickly (even if you trait them up) and then you’re up the creek without a paddle: a lot of your DPS has been lost and your utilities are all on cooldown for the length of time it will take them to kill you.
Turrets would be a lot better if they were a lot tougher, or maybe if they did something like:
The fact that anyone can ruin a turret build engineer in PvP just by taking 5 seconds to kill all their turrets is what keeps them useless in PvP. Yeah you can blast noobs with them but Anything Works Against Noobs™.
Yyyyep. The WvW maps are fairly flat and bland. Anet is clearly capable of making good, complex maps and a lot of the PvE maps would make for some really fun WvW maps but we’re stuck with a x3 copy of a fairly dull map and then Eternal which is mostly just open and flat.
Clearly they wanted more of a symmetric fight. Eternal isn’t totally symmetric but pretty close. Personally I think that’s not only unnecessary, but makes the maps wear out quicker. Asymmetric maps are usually more fun. People will complain that it’s “not fair” but just give the #1 team the most disadvantaged areas and call it even. :-p
I agree the Guard abilities are dumb. Guards are pretty useless as it is. I can still solo a supply camp if I’m careful. With 2 people it’s a no-brainer. Soloing the “hard” sentry point guards is routine. I don’t get why anyone would pick up guard killer abilities unless they majorly buff the guards.
Oil I’m hoping will be Stability and Protection if not outright invuln. And maybe the oil itself can take less damage.
For that matter they could give us a 10 foot wide reflection shield while manning oil. :-p Won’t stop AEs but it will stop regular ranged attacks! There are ways to make oil more useful and dangerous, anyway.
(Or what about “Remote Control”. Lets you get on the oil from a range of 900…)
My solution:
Let us “lock” one item of siege for as long as you’re on the map. That siege will never despawn. So a team of 5 could keep 2 arrow carts in one tower and 3 more in another tower and never have to worry about timers on those items.
I don’t see why anyone wants to change arrowcarts.
I’m actually enjoying having to THINK again. Now we have to do sneaky things like distract in one area and speedbuild in another to counter defensive arrow carts. And zergballing doors almost never works anymore — even one guy on an arrow cart is a threat now.
Arrow cart nerfs will just be a return to zergballing. “We hate zergballs, fix it, ANet! Wait! Now we can’t zergball! We want zergballs back!”
ANet just needs to pick a side to support. Are they pro-zergball or pro-strategy?
Can’t be both.
There’s definitely some issue with the Glicko system in this environment. I feel like a statistician could prove why it’s broken with some effort.
I mean Crystal Desert, the bottom of the 4th tier last week, got pretty well crushed by SOS but they went up slightly in rating because they slightly beat Stormbluff. Now Stormbluff is the new bottom tier 4th tier server, presently being crushed by SOS and beaten by CD but their rating will barely change because while they’re losing, they aren’t losing by enough to really move down.
So nobody in tier 4 is coming down to meet us in ratings.
And really, moving EB up to tier 4 isn’t going to help tier 4 any because I’m sure SOS will crush us just as badly as they’ve been crushing CD and SB.
CD vs SB vs EB would probably be an awesome matchup but that will never happen under the current Glicko setup.
There has to be a logical solution to this.
I agree about making Yak escorts be a daily. There’s your “XP” for doing escort missions — it’ll come from the daily reward.
Really it should be like “gather resources”. It’s just one of the daily options that’s ALWAYS there.
Just chiming in with what everyone else said.
T4 vs T5 mostly is a difference of which team can win the score battle at 4am on a Tuesday. I have seen T5 servers that consistently beat T4 servers in primetime but then they get crushed in their off hours because they don’t have coverage.
I see no reason to transfer from T5 to T4 when the only real difference is during times I don’t play.
I think it may be a general flaw of the game that players are repairing things like this to begin with. The “use supply” / “don’t use supply” argument will never end. 10 years from now, if this game still exists, people will still argue over whether they should be using supply for repairs or not.
I’d rather address the root problem somehow. Like preventing players from doing repairs and making it something workers do automatically as long as there’s supply, and they only work when the fort is not under attack so they won’t just waste supply trying to repair a wall that’s being hit. You have to go shut down the attacking trebs before repairs can start.
For that matter, maybe fort supply should be untouchable except by workers and if you want to build siege you have to bring your own supply from the supply camps!
The system should remove the siege with the highest unused timer as players drop new siege not automatically on a timer.
This, but prioritize flame rams.
Flame rams will despawn after 15 minutes of no use but if someone tries to drop a siege and the cap limit has been hit, the first flame ram with > 2 minutes of idle time will despawn to make room.
I wouldn’t do this with other siege — let them despawn on their timer so as to not surprise anyone that was trying to keep them refreshed — but any flame ram not being actively used is probably just taking up space.
Golems should be removed from the game for different reasons.
Rams taking no damage from siege means arrow carts are useless again. 80 people can still drop 6 rams and blast a door down in record time by rotating in and out unless the arrow carts can also damage the ram.
Time to get creative!
Long Answer = It’s harder, doesn’t always work, can be countered, takes longer, and doesn’t make for Epic PVP moments (which bores lots of people, apparently).
Epic PvP requires an attacker and a defender.
Zerging over a target because the defending scouts have no method of even slowing you down is not “epic”.
Epic is building catapults, trebuchets and having to defend them for 15 minutes while knocking down walls.
.
At least “siege wars” is PvP. “Zerg wars” is PvDoor with the zergs often having no chance or reason to collide.
Nope. Arrow carts are now doing what this game desperately needed: a way to put some risk back into the “blobs”. Yeah blobbing makes you immune to player AE but now arrow carts will rip you up.
Time to do something slightly more clever than zerg zerg zerg. The people complaining are the same people that would have quit next month anyway after complaining the game was “too easy” and “boring”.
Other solutions that I like more:
I don’t like the back-and-forth action but the OP’s suggestion is un-intuitive.
I don’t think I’m playing the same game. Most of the QQ on this board is due to D/D Eles and Thieves (and I’m pretty sure they aren’t crying about Shortbow).
That’s for their hit-and-run ability, especially in smaller fights. For major zerg on zerg fighting, which is most of the battles in most of the tiers, melee is a good way to go, “Hey, what happened? I just suddenly died.” The blob tends to punish anyone who runs out in front. Melee does still work in organized fighting when you can get 15+ melees to all charge at once but for pugs it’s all about ranged.
Sudden idea:
Remove AE limits for melee only.
If 15 people are standing in a tight clump, ranged AE can only hit 5 of them, like now, but let melee AE hit all targets with no limits.
That might really revitalize the melee in this game.
I know a certain elementalist that will be really happy with the change to #1
That’s a good point too.
It’s not a “nerf” to elementalists.
It’s freeing them up from probably the single most boring job in WvW.
There were a few things said in the state of the game thread specifically about WvW that I want to highlight here.
1) Elementalists, guardians, and thieves will no longer be able to destroy trebuchet projectiles
Good. That was nothing but another reason to be in a huge zerg. Huge zerg = plenty of elementalists = can’t even use siege to break up the zerg!
2) WvW/PvE split for Confusion condition and Retaliation Boon, confusion and retaliation will do less damage
Also good. Really anything they change in sPvP for balance reasons should be done in WvW as well. I don’t understand how they thought these things needed nerfed for sPvP but thought they were fine in WvW which is just a bigger, better version of sPvP.
3) Thieves stealth change is being reverted in WvW and PvE, but not sPvP (back to 3 seconds revealed debuff from 4).
wat
I mean okay but why the difference in sPvP and WvW here? Didn’t they JUST learn a lesson about that?
Sieging a keep with rams and especially ranged siege tends to result in a serious battle.
Attacking a keep with golems is PvDoor and is used by groups that are too weak or incompetent to win a serious battle.
Golems add nothing good to the game.
WvW is failing / Queues are too long.
Pick one. Might as well say McDonalds is going under because they have too many customers trying to buy a hamburger.
The next gen of mmo’s(end 2k13/2k14) will give the option for guilds to change the world, cant you guys imagine what if guilds could build castles from pre-selected models, movable siege?
Yeah, that’s what I said after EQ.
About 15 years ago.
The next gen of MMOs was WOW and we’ve been playing WOW ever since. The name changes, the graphics change, the settings change but it’s WOW.
Meanwhile, Camelot Unchained, which looks to be a real next-generation MMORPG with real block-by-block castle building, can’t even raise the $2 million they need to get started. After 23 days their kickstarter doesn’t even have 9000 supporters.
There are probably easily 200,000 players look for a game like that but only 9000 of them are actually willing to put up $25 bucks for a pre-order to help the game get built.
10 years from now, we’ll be playing WOW still. It’ll be 3-D virtual reality WOW, but still WOW.
It is bad.
It is harmful to the game.
“Golem rushing” is simply a way of avoiding PvP.
That, in fact, is the ONLY benefit to golems over any other siege method: they are the most likely way to let you capture a keep without engaging in PvP. Even if the enemy team is 100% on the ball with scouts on the outside doors and they see you coming and they alert the masses on a public teamspeak channel, you will have time to take any keep except maybe the EB home keep, before the enemy hordes can respond.
I will say it again:
Golems are for avoiding PvP.
They should be removed from the game. At the very least they should not be able to take mesmer portals.
As long as the method for getting the ascended gear forces them to be productive members of a wvw group, there’s absolutely no problem with that.
Exactly. If the player is bashing down the door of a keep because he wants ascended gear, well bless his little heart because he’s just as good as the players who are doing it to improve our server ranking and he’s better than the soloists out there organizing duels behind the wind mill.
Ideally, getting gear should be exactly as easy through WvW as PvE, with the deciding factor being “which one do I enjoy more”.
But this thread isn’t about gear.
It’s about guild advancement in WvW, namely that when it comes to merits, there isn’t any. An entire new system of advancement and rewards is simply not available to WvW guilds.
I can get ascended gear, eventually, through laurels. I can never get merits, short of going out to do mindless, boring PvE junk.
You sir, should be killed every time you enter the jumping puzzle
Yes, thank you, that is exactly my point! We should all be killed every time we enter the jumping puzzle.
Maybe the better discussion should be, “What class is best at killing people every time they enter the jumping puzzle?” I should think thief but for the borderlands I actually think a ranger might do well. After that first jump people should be low health and it’s just a question of finishing them off as quickly as possible, which I would think a ranged class would be good at. Engineers can be good too though, as can necros — basically drop mines/turrets/marks at the drop-in location and keep them refreshed. People take the dive and them blamo, mines, flamethrower turrets and chillbains everywhere.
For the Eternal JP, though, I would think a straight forward dueling build thief would be best. Plus if 40 people jump down you can just stealth around a corner and port out if you need to.
I thought that with the guild merit system and all the hard work Arenanet has been putting into it, adding many new rewards and ways for guilds to grow beyond what was initially offered, we should have a guide on how to obtain those rewards in WvW, for guilds and players that primarily focus on world vs world content.
Step 1) You can’t.
This concludes the guide. I hope that has cleared up any questions you may have had!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce
According to everyone here, courtesy is for the weak. In my little experience of WvW it seems like everyone is a ravenous dog looking for kills and loot. Atleast most people in PvP have the kitten decency to say “Gg” afterwards and are respectful. Camping jumping puzzles… honestly.
You’re confused. A “Christmas truce” where everyone decides not to murder each other right now is fine. The movie “Warhorse” had another good example where it’s probably okay to not murder each other right now.
If your enemy is out there looting siege equipment that they are going to use later to kill you and everyone you know then maaaaaybe that’s a dumb time for a truce. (“Haha yes, let us have peace on this day! Say, can you help me carry this cannon? In the spirit of brotherly love, would you mind helping me load it? Okay, now go stand over there…”)
A zerg of 60 necros would be able to lay so many marks/wells down that nothing would be able to get within 1200 range lol. This is about 420 wells/marks lol, they could be spread out so far that no even a double dodge roll would get through it.
Yeah, now all you need is 60 necros with military discipline.
Realistically, though, what would happen is some people stream in, set off all the marks, get downed, get raised up by the people streaming in behind them and then the necros all die. Necro marks tend to work best when you can plop them down on top of a big group. Simply setting them around as “traps” tends to result in them getting set off by 1 guy.
“Play on a Euro server” is bad advice for people in North America. The lag is not going to be helpful. If you want small fights in NA, just go to a lower tier.
I don’t know that I’d drop straight to tier 8 though. Tier 5 can still bring a pretty mean zerg but I can also often run around alone or with a small group and accomplish a thing or two. Maybe try tier 6 or 7.
Removing the AoE cap would create more problems. You could have one zerg of nothing but Well/staff necro’s dominating an entire map.
If they all stack up then it’s our zerg of AoE users versus yours.
If they spread out a little bit then our zerg of thieves will obliterate your your zerg of AoE.
In reality all zergs will be a mix of AE and single target killers (like now) but they will be forced to spread out more. So contrary to your belief, increasing the AoE cap will actually make the single target killers far more valuable than they are today. Right now the single target killers get lost in the blob and killed. If we force the blob to spread out more, that will help.
Player collision would solve that. EQ1 did it in 1998, I’m sure GW2 could handle it. Though it does have some other problems, it would certainly solve the “blob”.
Removing the AOE camp for players in WvW would also solve the problem. The main reason people blob up is that it’s immunity from AE.
to put this “war” talk into perspective, depriving the enemy of resources is also a very viable & effective war strategy. So is spying, so what about (not directed at anyone in particular) all the topics asking for banning of griefers & spies. It’s a war out there and everything goes. As far as i know Tyria never signed the genevan convention or knows something similar. ;-)
You’ve confused “war” with “meta-gaming”.
Anything you can do with your main account in the context of a roleplaying game where you are roleplaying someone at war is valid.
Creating second accounts, spying, wasting supply, DDOSing teamspeak servers or going to someone’s house to cut their power lines is not remotely the same thing as “red is dead”. Keep it in the confines of the game.
Jumping puzzle = siege engines.
Siege engines = things that kill you and your team and hurt your score.
Always kill enemies trying to reach the jumping puzzle. They are only trying to avoid you so that they can get new siege blueprints and murder you from a tower later on. “Haha, there’s that stupid guy who let me get this Ballista. BLAMO, PWNED YOU NOOB”.
Everyone you let into a jumping puzzle says this.
Verbatim.
While I find this post funny, I think it’s a bit cheap after Anet already have said they’re working on it in this post over here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/WvW-players-who-run-supply-for-repairs/first#post1839964
No, they still deserve it.
WvW has been third class since launch. We are somewhere behind PvE and sPvP in importance and it shows by both the lack of new content and the failure to properly design and implement what new systems they have added.
Sitting down to think of what things should generate WXP could probably be accomplished by one experienced player in 5 minutes. Adding those lines to the code would surely take less than a day. It didn’t happen because WvW has not been seen as important. They gave us a quickie because they’re too busy developing the next piece of one-off PvE content that will take 3 months to develop and everyone will be bored of after 3 weeks.
Meanwhile the 3rd class citizens of WvW are sitting in queues because what little they bothered to make for us is so popular that even tier 5 has queues.
This is the best PvP game on the market. Since the fix to culling I’m nothing but happy with it. Yes I wish there was more to it — more size, more depth, more things to do — but even as small as it is, WvW in this game is better than anything ever offered in Rift, Warhammer or SWTOR, to name a few.
I still shake my fist at Warhammer launching with “RvR” areas that were literally just empty land masses with maybe one tower per map. Like we were supposed to just go out there and fight in an empty field for 6 months. Ugh.
Yes there’s a lot of zerging but the MM stands for Massively Multiplayer. If I wanted solo fights I’d play League of Legends. I do sometimes split off and do my own thing (setup defenses, man a tower, flip NPCs, attack dolyaks, flip a camp) but I also enjoy running with the zerg because 50 vs 50 is FUN. Even 20 vs 50 is fun, trying to use tricks, flanks and bluffs to beat the 50 with the 20 or, sometimes, trying to outsmart the 20 awesome single-guild players to save the 50 horrible pugs I’m with.
I think Arenanet is regretting not putting more resources into WvW sooner.
All this PvE junk dies off faster than they create it. Anyone still care about guild bounties and all that other PvE nonsense they added? The culling fix brought a ton of people back to WvW and now we’re all wishing there was more content.
ArenaNet made the same mistake as every other MMORPG developer throughout the history of gaming:
They underestimated the popularity of open world PvP.
I largely agree about defenses. The oil’s radius of “Use” should be larger so that even if the attackers can kill the oil at least we can get in there to pour it without instantly dying to literally 20 different AE fields.
Cannons need to be rethought in general, I think. The ones on towers are almost completely useless. The ones on Keeps and the Castle are mainly only useful in the sense that you can usually find one that’s not in the main field of fire but can still be useful (and sometimes there are cannons on the inner keep wall that can hit the outer doors, which makes them VERY useful…but the outer cannons tend to be useless except for sneakily turning them to shoot inwards after the door breaks down…)
Mortars aren’t too shabby although the ones on towers tend to be useless because they shoot so far away even at minimum power, they usually have nothing to hit.
I do hope they make some pass at these hard-point defenses eventually. It would be nice if towers had something in them that actually helped the handful of defenders. I get more use out of my own single arrow cart than I do out of the cannon, mortar and oil combined. On the bright side, I can usually man the cannons when I want because they’re so bad, nobody else bothers to get on them.
I would counter it by booting anyone who stays in the protected area for 15 minutes. Start warning them after 10 minutes. Even if they are crafting and shopping, crafting and shopping for an hour is functionally equivalent to being AFK and clogging up the queue.
You could still go out in the middle of nowhere and AFK up against a wall but eventually someone will find you and kill you and then you’ll end up booted. Can’t cast anything while dead and the idle timer will get you. (A sophisticated bot could respawn and run back outside and afk again but at least that’s well above what everyone with a Logitech keyboard can do with a macro that takes 5 seconds to setup.)
but when I’m standing on top of the wall and can target the ground they don’t have enough arc to go over that tiny little lip and still hit the lip of the wall???
It actually works better if you stand back a little. If you stand right next to the lip the grenades will hit it but if you stand back a little and give them room to arc up a bit, they will pass over it before arcing down.
“Casual” means you can jump in and out and play when and how you want.
There is nothing about this style of play that suggests it must also have weak loot, empty content and go for months with no new maps or events.
I mean PvE in this game is pretty casual as well. Fractals are the best loot in the game and it’s not like it’s some 3 hour, multi-week commitment like end game dungeons in WOW. You pop in, you run a fractal, you’re done for the day if you want. You can even pug it. There’s no reason this should be so much more rewarding than WvW.
I think it would be interesting to go the other direction…
Every tower and keep has a waypoint, built in, automatic, and combat doesn’t shut it down. The waypoint is a destructible structure — it’s on the outer wall of towers and it’s in between the outer and inner wall of keeps. Shutting down or camping the waypoint is top priority for attackers.
Now add a new “siege engine” — deployable waypoint. Deployable waypoints must be at least 1500 range away from any other deployable waypoint. They are also destructible.
This keeps all battles flowing and lets both attackers and defenders respond quickly.
This is roughly how Planetside does it and it’s huge fun. More fighting for control of areas, less running around maps.
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