Guild Wars 2

Tyler Bearce.3427:

• It has a ~5silver, 10 supply and 15 badge cost. This cost coupled with the above point, will likely limit the amount that these items are used to important tactical plays.

3,750 badges
12.5 g

I’ll buy a full stack.

Replace it with a dolyak pasture.

Banner should resurrect to 100% HP, and provide Righteous Indignation buff.

Good idea. We’re excited to announce that it will be 800 gems for a WvW Defcon System 2 week pass, and 3600 gems for a permanent pass.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Potential (controversial) additional change:

• This is the Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier system
  • It’s important to include map populations as a factor, to make the system more fair for off hours players and its important to include time-of-day as a factor to prevent a winning team from trying to keep the score muliplier low by exiting WvW

Tyler,

As an American who primarily plays between 3AM and 9AM UTC -5, I strongly disagree with your final point there. Time-of-day is only a factor in Action Level if you excessively worry about player agency as a factor in “gaming the system.”

Do not worry about player agency gaming that system. It is exceedingly rare that a home world’s WvW community is capable of that level of agreement and cooperation. There are always significant amounts of dissident opinions and actions in a move like that. We have tried and failed to organize such moves in the past. This is a non-issue.

It is only imagination that leads to that worry. Look at the data.

If you use an otherwise correct scoring system to directly punish the actions of players naturally playing outside of NA prime time hours, then you will be unintentionally damaging their desire to play at all.

The only people who will cheer for that move are either misunderstanding or ignorant of the implication.

Map population should consistently be a factor in Action Level, across any “time of day” relative to server time. That part is correct.

Devaluing that factor based upon the server’s local time is nonsense. You’re operating an international game on the NA servers.

~ Anvu

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

PR control? They know the vast majority of posters in this forum are angry and complain, why would deleting one of the many controversial threads in this forum change the public opinion? :P

It’s a long term game of preventing the conversation from showing up in Google on its keywords and gaining PageRank for appearing on the guildwars2.com domain.

Additionally, it absolves them of any perceived requirement to officially reply yet, which was one of the subjects of the deleted thread.

EoTM was made for the rest of us (the vast majority of the game’s WvW-playing population) to enjoy, while a very few among us burn inordinate amounts of energy worrying and complaining about it.

theTurkey.2970:

Unfortunately, this type of “communication” is becoming the norm.

“Becoming”? It has been the norm from the start.

They got tired of deleting threads and deleted an entire sub-forum.

Michael, it looks like you need a spectator mode without your own character model being rendered. The match interference is in the fact that for whatever team you’re currently flagged as, the opponent teams will try to kill you with extreme prejudice. That alters their decision making, and causes group leaders to lose control of their teams.

I originally called it a mistake because I felt that the above should be obvious in deciding how such a GM account would interface.

Furthermore, the visibility of your GM guild tag is going to alter the behavior of nearby baddies.

I want a downed-state skill enabling me to challenge the stomping player(s) to a mini-game: thumb wrestling, arm wrestling, or rock-paper-scissors. I want that skill to have a zero second cool down.

Beside which, the Desert BL Beta previews were only for HoT hype and to generate some quick-fix feedback. The majority of what we’ve said in the past, which can be shown to be quite opposite to the directions that EoTM and Desert BL have gone, was said in 2013, 2012, and before that during the pre-launch betas.

That was when we thought that WvW was serious about being an RvR game.

Only a WvW player is at risk of forum account infringement for contributing to this thread one month from now.

ConfusedDave.4271:

Making someone pay another 300g just to have a different colour completely negates the ability for people to switch colours to suit the situation and who else is on the map.

The majority of players willing to purchase the alternate colors will be players we don’t want to obey as commanders.

“WvW Improvements” doesn’t include “Commandership Cashgrab”. Status symbol for PvE maps confirmed. It gets its own post because that will be a sales pitch for using them during Living Story events and world bosses.

At least ANet is always excited and remembers to tell us that everything they say is exciting!

They’ll need another year to program and test this, and won’t “feel comfortable” talking about it until Sept. 2015.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Josh

Gotta hand it to server X who have come up from the bottom of bronze tier and showing the other veteran silver tier servers how to fight

Yes because yet again this wont be due to mass transfer of guilds to other servers, nor the tanking some servers may do again.

Please can we have someone who actually knows what they are talking about and knows the real issues in this mode?! Not someone who’s on blobgate!

P.S. Permanantly banned from posting on your twitch channel for asking about GvG. Thank you for letting us know you care.

Josh was in Anvils Last Stand on AR for two weeks c. 2012, while he was casting for guru. He wasn’t interested in WvW, and couldn’t be bothered to rep the guild or raid with it: just wanted to (barely) see what it was like in the biggest WvW guild on his home server.

He’s still casting and still playing Engi errday, so I doubt his WvW GAF has changed, either.

Don’t be surprised when an sPvP-focused employee behaves as if the WvW leaderboard is meaningful in a Team v. Team sense, rather than its reality as a descending sort on the server list in respect to manpower over time.

Ten Ton Hammer, 2014, Why I Stopped Playing Guild Wars 2

Thread suggestions are often not taking lessons from the past.

What I found so frustrating about Guild Wars 2 more than anything was that ArenaNet singlehandedly rejected some of the things that made the brand and the game great: Guild versus Guild and Dynamic Events. Where Dynamic Events are concerned, I believe they abandoned the process because it significantly reduced their revenue potential rather than the raw Living World model.

The above quote is the majority opinion of those who bought the game for WvW and then left before Desert Borderland. I’ve spoken with such people in the hundreds, as they were deciding to leave. The common theme was never so specific. It was simply that they were done. It had left them wanting (which indicates that the game was good) but they felt under-delivered as time passed. It didn’t hold them in the ways they felt it had promised.

Interestingly, ArenaNet did specifically address that quote with Heart of Thorns.

Perhaps the reason that the game is still leaking WvW players is something more fundamental, beneath the surface of all of these “top list” easy-mode answers that are guaranteed to make one party cheer at another party’s displeasure.

The fundamental problem I see:

• WvW is a diluted RvR
• scored by the 5v5 PvP capture-point system with longer distances between the points
• operating under the PvE combat ruleset
• with PvE reward bolted on through loot-drop and gold medals for being present.

It is a problem of staleness, from the original WvW design having now run its course. The top-list suggestions are all well and good, as they provide a sense of what will please the most people immediately.

Just don’t forget that the majority is not simply unaware of this thread. The majority left the game because they were done with the game, and the people who returned for HoT found that the game was exactly as they had left it; then they left again.

X T D.6458:

Double teaming is not something anyone should be proud of, or actively engage in because its just a crappy thing to do.

I’m doing it, am proud of it, and will continue actively engaging in it because it’s a crappy thing to do to people who’ve more than earned it.

Needs more videos showing how Tier 2 Obsidian Sanctum is more popular than sPvP arenas, and that private arenas are used for WvW GvG practice by people that won’t follow the upcoming esperts conquest tourney.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

(a) Coverage is not under the control of the individual player playing WvW at any specific time of the day.

Fact.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

It being “player-driven” is not the same as it being under “player control”.

Fact.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

The individual player has no control over the coverage disparity

As an individual: fact.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

and the negative impact it has on their play experience when they log into the game.

And I will play for them the smallest violin.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

(b) Competition is about pitting one’s skill against opponents in an environment in which every effort is made to eliminate all variables except skill.

sPvP is —-———> that way.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Using your logic, then it would be perfectly acceptable to have professional sports competitions

Oh, stop it.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Your arguments have been dismantled and found to rely on specious and self-serving reasoning.

Absolutely not. You’ve spent a lot of time saying nothing relevant toward WvW as it is or will ever be. You’ve stated some facts and then gotten lost on a tangent that has been well trodden, and is no more true now than it ever was.

I disagree without humility.

lordkrall.7241:

Malediktus.9250:

Why dont they auto lock all threads older than 30 days if they dont want us to post in them? This is beyond stupid.

I would assume because they thought people were mature enough to not necro threads of the reason of necroing them?

It is not really that hard to not necro a thread. You are required to know the rules of the forums after all.

This is also why we no longer require libraries nor public discussion of ideas dated older than 30 days.

phirefox.2568:

Are those horrid prices for colored tags a test to determine how far they can push us around without losing players?

Yes, I believe that this is true, and I also believe that the early verbal announcement of the feature is one of: testing those waters before the blog post is scheduled to release (in case of a pending business decision to revise or cancel it) or a dissenting voice at ANet letting it slip in hopes of the former.

saratoga.4872:

Video proof….official Anet interview with Guildmag, The Siege Disabler is at around 6:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwkvOqrwpb8

Siege Disabler will be hilarious fun. GG QQ.

Charging for commander colors as if they were vanity dyes is ridiculous nonsense that will cause some people to leave the game, and cause all commanders to perform beneath their potential (up do and including people never becoming commanders at all).

This week on Ready Up: Episode… just kidding.

The unauthorized players are organizing unauthorized tournaments for the unofficial (and unauthorized) GvG game mode in both NA and EU regions.

20v20 T2 GVG NA Invitational Tournament: Bald Eagles of the Mist

20v20 GvG EU Tournament: Kings of the Mist

There will be unauthorized in-game prizes, unauthorized streams and unauthorized commentators.

Blix.8021:

Well, they merged the threads, which is the first step toward ignoring the community again.

Ah, that’s better. Now that the differing conversations on more-or-less the same topic are all smeared together, we can ignore most of it for it being confusingly difficult to follow.

Forum Moderation 101

Xillllix.3485:

Imagine what guild halls would cost if they ever released them.

The NPC unlocks were a massive grind in GW1 guild halls system, but it could be done collaboratively. In GW2, everything tends to be gem stored and/or account bound. Whatever happens there, it won’t be fun.

However, ANet employees will be “extremely excited” to announce it!

Good idea. We’re excited™ to announce that the Server Chat Tab Unlock is now available at the gem store for 1200 gems!

Server Chat Tab Unlocks are server-bound, and must be repurchased if you decide to transfer to another server.

We’re looking forward to seeing all of the exciting™ things that the community does with this exciting™ new feature!

Reduce the variety of rewards per track (particularly the loot boxes) so that they will stack instead of growing to encumbrance. This happens on an inventory that is already maxed for bag slots.

Between combat salvage is so frequent that I’m calling WvW Inventory Wars 2.

If you need to balance the rewards for game currency value, just give us more coin and tokens. The non-stacking boxes are just silly.

PS: I do enjoy the irony of going from “too little reward” to “too much”, though.

I’m happy because the majority of people who waited the longest in queue are people who historically have earned that fact. While it is unfortunate (and I do not envy that) the lowest tier got merged into the already stacked tier, this was a game-wide event. It happened to everyone, to some extent. Its severity is temporary.

I’m happy because there are also other flaws in the existing WvW system which were re-hashed and revealed again last night, and that is good because right now ArenaNet is paying the most attention they ever have to these events.

I’m happy because the net result of the move as-is was good, and the longer term outlook appears better, including some easing of, even repair of, what went wrong last night.

morrolan.9608:

Vavume.8065:

They will change it, already plenty of complaint threads up, and they will only increase until this idea for tags gets reworked. I feel confident this wont go live and will be changed to something more reasonable.

You mean like the new trait system………..

No, he means like the entire “WvW Discussion” sub-forum for the past 12 months.

TyPin.9860:

@Virtute.8251:
You can vote anyone to the major of your own little phantasy town.

Thank you for sanctioning my ballot referendum, sir. 4 more years!

TyPin.9860:

It only disqualifies you as a serious person in this discussion.

I refuse to be serious while watching Nickelodeon.

TyPin.9860:

You might wanna get your delusions checked.

I might, if they were delusions and if I weren’t demonstrably 100% correct. Go get a real reality.

TyPin.9860:

I on my part rather stay with observation as well as trial and error.

You mean empirical evidence and observer bias.

TyPin.9860:

The OP complained

Shocker!

TyPin.9860:

about the current meta

End of discussion. Invalid use of conversational English.

You’re never going to drive constructive conversation at this rate!

Shrouded.6450:

Called it a few months ago:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Tier-2-Problems/page/1

Ya know with all these GvG craze going on in your tier, has anyone ever wondered the health of each server’s militias? Guilds come and go to greener pastures for its own health and well being. That is a fact, the militias however are the ones that will always be left behind.
This T2 “project” was bound to fail from the get go. :p A competitive WvW server needs a healthy balance of militias and guilds in order for it to be sustainable.

This is why there is one clear scoreboard winner of tier 2 every week: because there is only one tier 2 server that innately followed your advice.

FearedbytheGods.8617:

Virtute.8251:

The enemy “zerg” is a world boss.

They say “inc” and only “inc” because “inc” means “champ is up!”

Dunno what server your on but that sounds nothing like mine, sounds more like EotM.

Dunno what game you’re in, but sounds nothing like the five servers I’ve played in across the full range of the board. Definitely not the 2 that I’ve played for more than 9 months each.

AidanTaylor.3872:

We are creating a video that showcases everything that is great and fun about WvW – epic battles, sieges, quaggan dance parties

There are no quaggan dance parties. Quaggan tonics (baby and adult) do not have emote animations.

sMihaly.1492:

Brb, making a vid about a
*****Quaggans-can’t-dance party*****

Edit: Done!
You can check to full video here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/1/1e/Quaggan_tonic_transformation.jpg
/end of sarcasm

I’d glad to see tonics able to dance. At least with dance kit… or whatever. But most of them lack basic emotes too.

:D

UnknownRH.4592:

I bet you have never played WvW with an organized group. No one will ever let your conditions end their duration on them selves. They can be very easily removed. Insulting someone with out solid points make you look like an idiot. Stop embarassing yourself.

False. I play in Gold League, with and against such groups every time I log in, for thus-far more than 4,000 hours.

Conditions do not need to reach the end of their original duration. You’re right that they usually don’t.

The cumulative affect is not insignificant, and I don’t intend to proof it for you. I’ll assert it and be correct.

Tibstrike.2974:

Virtute.8251:

Tibstrike.2974:

Man…if they fixed the bug that traps you in siege the WvW community would die.

That’s not a bug. It’s a debuff meant to disincentivize building siege weapons.

How can anyone hate open field combat rams?

I prefer defensive rams on keep walls.

I’m an American in Central Time Zone who, during the work week, primarily plays between 3 AM and 9 AM. That’s the time bloc we call “OCX”.

As the official ambassador of NA in the OCX bloc, I am here to inform you that OCX rejects your spurious and capricious charges of “night capping” and returns to you the charge that you’re all filthy day cappers.

Was also in comms with the thief: can confirm that OP ate a sick burst from stealth.

Can also agree that it’s a reason to delete the class and fire half of ANet.

1-up-1-down would drastically increase the frequency of (even more) imbalanced matches. For each tier, the middle server will tend to get stuck, and the #1 and #3 will tend to bounce constantly between their natural tier and the neighbor tier. I would expect the players to quickly realize that fact, then fall into a pattern of off-weeks and on-weeks where a majority would avoid the match following a 1-up that pushes them into a guaranteed curb-stomp loss. Counterpoint, of course, would be the karma train swap meet for the guaranteed win week. That’s what happens now, just less frequently.

1-up-1-down can work in competitions with 2 opponents per match. The third opponent is why it won’t work here. Furthermore, it gives no real weight to historical performance, and so it is too volatile.

It’s completely okay, for example, that NA Tier 1 servers have tended to stick in that tier, because history has proven that all three of them are nearly guaranteed to win if they match against any of three Tier 2 servers. That history is reflected in the wide separation between those tiers today. The fact that a Tier 2 server can inflate to Tier 1 population and activity was proven last year, by Yak’s Bend, and the fact that a fall from Tier 1 will deflate the server was proven most recently by Tarnished Coast.

The WvW leaderboard was not designed as a short-term competitive ladder. We, the players, turned it into a meta-competition, with websites like mos.millenium.org and our own behavior. That got reinforced by ArenaNet later, with their WvW seasonal tournaments, but they lock the leaderboards into leagues for those things because the leaderboard isn’t actually designed for it. It needs the league meta-tiers to make the tournament meaningful for anyone below tier 2, and it needs forced shuffling of servers during the tournament, because the rankings are intentionally designed to not do that.

ArenaNet’s use of a modified Glicko 2 ranking is purely for matching nearly equal opponents, where more than 3 opponents (servers) was also a systematic requirement of the original design, because they did not have a solid “megaserver” technology—which, by the way, is a fancy way of naming extremely redundant and wide network topologies, a/k/a, high-availability clusters, and “cloud”.

It was arguably more interesting to do it this way, with the server leaderboard, rather than forever lock a trio of servers into a perpetual battle. That was a novel spin on the Tri-Realm RvR concept, and it worked, for better and worse.

Every time a significantly imbalanced match has occurred, there has been no end to the complaints, up to and including that being one of the leading reasons for the deletion and banning of the old “matchup threads” here.

TorquedSoul has shown a way to improve the ranking method now, with data that didn’t exist 3.5 years ago, but aside from some slight changes like that, the method itself has always done what it is designed to do, in an appropriate time frame, given the fact that the matches each last 1 week. Torqued’s claim is very specific, and it isn’t that ArenaNet Glicko is the wrong thing to do. Rather, it’s that ArenaNet Glicko is doing a part of its job slightly wrong.

I don’t think that a simple ladder would do anything good for the week-to-week experience. The weekly competition of WvW is ideally between the three most-similar opponents; not some make-believe idea of an opponent that doesn’t exist, or one that would be fun to fight for one night until you realize that they have so many people logged in that you can’t possibly fight it.

Arena Net,

Your WvW seasons are a great competitive mode. The players would enjoy an even more balanced competition where the fight is truly always on.

There is a very easy solution. The most vocal minority will object. The majority will enjoy the result, and only the data will reveal this fact.

The NA leaderboard has 8 tiers. Currently, tier 1 and 2 hold the lion’s share of WvW playing people. They gain players from the lower tiers daily, at an increasing rate.

At some time between the end of season 2 and the start of season 3, please utilize your Megaserver system to support merger of all tier 3 through tier 8 NA servers into tier 1 and 2. I suggest the following:

• Lock transfers for some short period before the merger.
• Sort tiers 3-8 into tiers 1-2 in reverse order.

This means:

• Rank 6 receives Rank 7-9
• Rank 5 receives Rank 10-12
• Rank 4 receives Rank 13-15
• Rank 3 receives Rank 16-18
• Rank 2 receives Rank 19-21
• Rank 1 receives Rank 22-24

Thanks,

Your #1 Fan NA

coglin.1867:

Where were you two with your feedback on this matter during the last 2+ years of discussion on the topic of new maps?

It is not like this is some new idea that they dropped out of the blue. This was overwhelmingly demanded via payer feedback.

Yes, we have asked for and talked about changes since Beta.

The changes that we get, and the changes that are complained about the most, are generally changes that weren’t asked for, or are changes that have been accomplished in ways that either do not solve our concerns or even exacerbate our disagreement.

Where were we? Here. In the game. In the streams. In the forums and subreddits and CDI. ANet can’t follow the conversation, and can’t reply with proper results. This isn’t the RvR game that people were excited about in 2012. It’s a cop out.

Swagger.1459:

how do you make the masses loyal enough to participate in wvw consistently?

You don’t. Where WvW lacks or loses player loyalty, it is a problem of boredom.

There is no “make the masses” do anything in gaming. You encourage it, with fun that is addictive and inspires desire. That is how WvW became a thing to be argued in favor of by its fans.

When it is forced as in “make” someone do something, you have conditions like relentless grinding, time-gating for its own sake, and collective cognitive dissonance between company and customers where neither side can agree with the other’s mental image of the thing despite being able to see the other’s perspective clearly. All things that the silly GW2 Oath propagandized against. They are old mistakes all over again.

Those mistakes are the root of the GW2 complaint meta.

T raw.4658:

And anet rejoices on a job well done…..

If GvG was ever intending to court ANet to get recognized for game changes in their favor, then they needed to select a spokesman that would behave toward ANet more like like Groucharoo and less like Sacryx.

BlazeQ.1095:

This actually bothers me to a degree… Where is the direction of this company going?

“Necro threads” is a pathetic concern of small-minded people with misguided priorities. Fairly indicative of the company’s direction, if this subject warrants a special rule and notification, particularly in context of this sub-forum for the past months.

100g for each black lion vendor tab unlock. Can’t buy new skins until you unlock the vendor tab.

Complete invisibility stealth in itself is a kittenty mechanic in context of the surrounding systems in GW2.

Eternalight.4708:

Needless to say reading above the current glicko system seems to be working as intended but not functioning as it should? Am i reading that right?

Yep.

The way to understand it can be something like this: Look at the graph that TorquedSoul attached to OP, and understand that the curving is meant to enforce a diminishing return on both the upward and downward movement of a server’s ranking.

The effect is a form of loss/gain prevention. It intentionally prevents a server from gaining or losing “too much” ranking from a great or terrible performance in a single match. It forces the good or bad performance to be repeated, as a display of consistency on behalf of the server.

That is why ANet Glicko has been good for its purpose, and 1up would be terrible for the same purpose. 1up does an entirely different thing, for an entirely different purpose. ANet Glicko produces a good enough stability, and that’s what it’s meant to do.

The WvW leaderboard is actually just a table sort. The sort condition is “how do these servers perform against their peers, over time”. It is not a sports competition ladder.

What TorquedSoul has shown is that ANet should probably change the type of curve being applied, because the curve they use is too aggressive in punishing the winner and propping up the loser, in individual matches. He’s also shown that in spite of that fact, the servers still eventually get to the ranking they deserve, but they have to work too hard, or be beaten too badly, to get there.

If ANet Glicko didn’t work well enough to eventually rank a server properly, then TorquedSoul would have no data to prove his point with.

I’m not sure how much time (in other words, how many matches) would be trimmed from a situation like Dragonbrand vs Sea of Sorrows right now, if Torque’s change was made. What is certain, however, is that there would still be pain involved for the losing parties, and that is a part of this game type. That’s what you bought and wanted. 1up isn’t going to change that for the better, where loser’s or insufficient winner’s feels are concerned.

zen.6091:

There’s no other explanation for how these kinds of decisions are made and get stamped off by someone.

Yes, there is.

lordkrall.7241:

Personally I see the reason for this.

We have our own prime example of the kind of “thinking” and “reason” that occurs.

The reality is quite simple. The majority of us who would have taken advantage of the new colored-commander system will not do so, and ANet will have no way of measuring the real ill effects of their ridiculous decision, because they’ll gather no relevant data.

They became losers when they got upset enough to call you a loser.

You became a loser when you became upset enough to come here to post this; in effect, calling them losers.

Both sides are losers. Posts above are explaining types of losing.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

This is bad game design because:

(a) coverage is not under the player’s control

(b) a factor not under a player’s control gives a reward to the opponent (PPT)

(c ) there are no counters available to (a) and (b)

False.

(a ) “Coverage” is exclusively a player-driven mechanic, which can no more be removed than can the human need for clocks, time zones, and sleep.

(b ) Not everyone wins in competition.

(c ) It is addressed by human interaction through social networking.

The solution is simpler and more plausible.