Guild Wars 2

Audra.8057:

Aww.

Please GW2, show us ladies and gay gentlemen a little more love.

Not even a matter of just being a lady or gay gentleman. I, as someone who grew up in a colder climate, wouldn’t be adventuring even half as covered as I’m forced to with the male characters. I mean really: Why am I forced to cover nearly every part of my body with 95% of the options I have available, the other 5% being just ugly or dull, while the female models get to run around practically naked with 90% of their sets? This design actually killed Legendary armor for me, personally, when you look at the female models (Medium and light showing midriff and upper arms) while the male models are covered from neck down (light) or head to toe (medium). I also play mostly Sylvari, so all that beautiful detail in the skin and with the glow is covered if I run anything aside from MAYBE one of the cultural options.

Please fix this, Anet. Give me some skimpier male armor options! (Also: This has been being said since launch, for those that don’t know, so doubt they will do anything about it now.)

My point wasn’t saying that all of GW1 Mes would work in GW2. Enemy denial just would not function the same way because it was focused around using your enemies energy and skills against them, which they neither have energy nor a large pool of skills to matter. However, what I am looking at is how hexes worked with other Mesmer skills and how they worked against the enemy.

For example: If our shatters applied hexes on enemies. Mind Wreck could, not only have the burst damage but also, apply a hex that caused the enemy, and surrounding enemies, to take damage when they are hit by an illusions. Or Cry of Frustration could apply Confusion on shatter and a hex that would apply more confusion to target and surrounding foes when struck by illusions This would allow shattering to work for both burst and sustain in that shattering would kill our illusions, but any illusion attack after that (for a set duration) would do extra damage. Balancing of damage per illusion shattered, of course, to make this not broken; but you see what I’m going for here, I hope.

While I do agree I hate having to resist the urge to hit my shatters while on boss fights or when going against particularly strong enemies; I can also say that shatters are not a full waste of damage. When looking at trash mobs, especially large groups of trash mobs, where we are mostly single targeted with our weapons; a well used shatter can decimate the grouping of enemies before you.

I run Condi Shatter for the majority of content and can honestly say under estimating/under valuing shatters is a mistake. Yes, it takes away from overall dps in the long run, but when it comes to trying to burst down trash mobs, or even enemies in PvP/WvW, shatters are very useful.

Do not take this as me defending the shatter system, though. I still wish Mesmer of GW2 were more like Mesmer of GW1: Massive health and energy degeneration (energy in form of endurance, I suppose, or cool downs) with a very counter based play style. We went from very deadly Hexers in GW1 to falling closer to the performer aspect, in that we are entertaining with our pretty butterfly illusions, in GW2.

A good chunk of my time is spent playing Condi Mes as is. Which means playing base Mes or when I do trait in Chrono I don’t often use the f5 aside from the extra phant if I feel like it. Only time f5 is a thing is when I’m quick sharing in CM fracts and raids. So no, losing the f5 will not be an issue for me, personally. The new dodge/ambush mechanic is much welcomed.

skeeman.3140:

Dude, if you would have spent some time running around the LS3 zones instead of typing all of the essay replies in here, you’d have a few ascended trinkets by now.

Again: Not sure where people are getting ascended anything from any of my posts. Not asking for them, don’t need them. Other PvE players might, though, if they are trying to get into fractals. Which this track would help do.

Also: each of my replies only takes me a couple minutes to type up. Which I do inbetween projects outside of game. So not like I’m wasting my game time typing to all you special cookies.

There are maps out there with optimized paths for gathering on these zones. Hell, in Bloodstone Fen, you can knock out two dailies within like 30 seconds. Jump off the airship, spam the abilities (but yes, you’d have to earn them first), and collect the unbound magic laid out in the path before you. You’ll usually even find a node or two along the way.

That is great and all. However from doing all the dailies and collecting all the nodes I can walk out of there with MAYBE 12 rubies, if I’m lucky. This narrow look on it also only applies to instanced players looking at map materials. What about the armor pieces only gained through doing the achievements or, ya know, that tracks that PvP and WvW have? What about the Open world players who struggle with the instanced content but still want those rewards? These are the things I’m looking at. Not just one side of this, according to you people, “GIVE ME MORE REWARDS” post. But all sides of where this can help the players.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

PvErs asking for more ways to get stuff easily. Why am I not surprised?

To be fair, the OP isn’t asking for more easily; they are asking for differently. (There’s another poster who, despite claims to the contrary, is asking to get more stuff and more easily.)

This. Not asking for an easier way to obtain them. Just an alternative way to obtain them. As I’ve been saying.

I don’t agree with the OP that this is necessary or even particular good for the game, but let’s not mistake their request: they still expect to do work, a lot of work. They’d just prefer to do it primarily via fractals & raids rather than in the open world. Some people find fractals & raids harder, not easier.

I’m not saying it is necessary either. I’m suggesting it so that it’s easier for those of us who play instances to obtain open world items while open world players have an easier time obtaining instanced items. Open world people, some anyways, do struggle with the instanced content. This would be a way for them to obtain it that doesn’t make them hate the game. Win-win, honestly.

And it’s not without precedent. To complete a dungeon collection (by unlocking all weapon & armor skins), we can complete CM 103 times in explorable mode or play ~40 unbuffed ranked/unranked PvP games (with a 50-50 win rate). In other words, it’s somewhat less total effort to collect skins while playing PvP versus going to dungeons.

That’s the thing right there. We could complete 103 of a dungeon path to complete the set. However this would have to be spread out due to diminishing returns and only being able to gain the actually completion bonus once per day per path. So that 103 completions would be spread out over months. Unless we just kept going at it with the dr in place, which would take longer. And again, some Open world PvE players struggle with this content while some Fractal and raid runners might as well. Or they rather spend what little time they have in game in the content they want.

I still don’t think it’s good for the game because the rewards for raiding are unparalleled and they are pretty darn good for fractals.

Raids are very rewarding; the first time through. Mind you this is also a weekly reward. I agree that it’s still a lot as a weekly reward, but for those that actually do run raids every day, and there are some, they get little from it except loot bags and a little bit of cash. While spending most of that cash on food and utility items.

Fractals I can not argue are the single most rewarding content, gains/time spent (outside of flipping the trading post), but that doesn’t change the fact that some of us do enjoy that content over all else and the items I’m looking at are unobtainable with cash or anything gained in fractals. Which means we’d have to put it down to go and farm those areas. And as I keep pointing out; some people don’t have the time to do both. So it would be a toss up for which they do for the day. And I don’t believe that is fair when WvW and PvP can remain in their content while working towards it, albeit a bit slower.

Maybe if the OP was asking for different rewards instead of things like substantial chance for ascended gear…

When in any of my posts did I ask for more ascended gear? I have not once said in any of my replies to increase the ascended income. The only thing I have asked for is a way for PvE players to remain in their content, give up some of the income from that content, to receive some of the reward from other areas of the game. I did, however, suggest a fractal track for the PvE track as a whole. I mean: This could include an ascended item, but I think that would be a little too much as a guaranteed reward. Though it would help those in PvE or the lower scale fractals to obtain ascended gear to allow them to more easily get into or progress in fractals. Again, though, I have not, in any of my posts, suggested such a drop.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I suppose having Reward Tracks for all kinds of rewards would be great for the players, but, perhaps, not so great for the game.

What incentive should ArenaNet use, instead, to lure players to content such as the Living World maps? Would there be enough population in new content after the first week or so (I think I read there is a population issue in WvW and PvP) if players never leave their preferred PvE comfort zones? Or would PvE Reward Tracks cause population issues just like WvW and PvP have?

Maybe it’s that ArenaNet looks at the good of the overall game rather than being unfair to certain sub-groups of the player population.

I don’t know, just a thought.

You’re certainly right. However the issue with the populations is not that they are unrewarding compared to others; it’s that they don’t appeal to everyone. The way I’m looking at this is not to give PvE players ‘more’ rewards for staying in their game mode but rather another way to obtain items unrelated to their game mode that are already being obtained by PvP and WvW players without leaving their game mode.

When a person comes into the game they test out all types of the game, they find what they like, and they tend to stick to it regardless of the rewards. PvP players play PvP because they enjoy it. WvW players play WvW because they enjoy it. Instanced players play instances because they enjoy it. And Open World players prefer their casual open world game play. This is all fine, and most people will figure out what they like to play after playing it for a bit and stay there.

I don’t know how many people will bash their head against a game mode they don’t enjoy for too long just for the rewards. Everyone wants to play what they want to play. Thus why I want to keep certain things, that Ohoni is against me on, to their game modes. Raid rewards for raids, Glorious to PvP, Triumphant to WvW, and Heroic to Competitive. This will give people a reason to go to those areas, still. Just like the introduction of achievements and collections push PvE players back into the PvE maps. Some things should remain where they are.

When looking at specific items, though, like season 3 items and dungeon items; WvW and PvP already have access to these without needing to leave their game mode. Open world should have access to dungeon rewards without leaving their game mode just the same as instanced players should have access to season 3 items without leaving their game mode. I don’t know of many people who run instances over open world who will go to those maps and do more than what is needed to get those materials before going back to their content anyways. So they don’t add to the population of those maps in a good way all the time. And for Open world players, as I have pointed out, they will have a way to obtain items for content that they might not be good at (dungeons and fractals).

Tracks aren’t as simple as “play a few things and earn rewards”. They take time to complete. I’m not suggesting PvE tracks take any less time than they would for PvP or WvW to complete. Just asking for an alternative way for PvE players to receive items from other aspects of PvE content (unlike PvP and WvW who receive items from a game mode disconnected from their own).

Supz.9836:

The point is however by raiding and running fractals you get access to legendary mats etc. Which is the reward type for that content.

By running open world/WvW/PvP you get access to standard loot which is the reward type for that content.

There is no reason why you should get both types of rewards from fractals and raids UNLESS you get both type of rewards from PvP/WvW/PvE.

However you want to try and spin this, you are asking for more loot. Even if you reduce certain drops (presumably you already have that type of drop which you are happy to have reduced) – you are still asking for more loot whether it be the amount or variety of loot.

If you are not asking for more loot are you asking for less loot? What you are asking for is not having to run certain content (that you don’t like) and still be able to access the reward for that content. I.e not run LS3 content and still get the rewards for it.

I don’t mind if you do that but I don’t enjoy raiding and Fractals so to make it fair lets have raid loot and fractal loot accessible in PvP/WvW? You can have the PvP wings in raids I don’t mind. You can even reduce the drops of other types of items in the reward tracks its okay.

Hold on hold on hold on hold on. You apparently did not read or understand what it is I’m saying and are making it sound like I’m asking for more than what’s already being given to someone else who actually doesn’t deserve it.

By running open world/WvW/PvP you get access to standard loot which is the reward type for that content.

If you ONLY got access to “standard loot” I would not be suggesting this at all. What I am looking at is not what you receive from kills or the increments of the tracks. What I am SPECIFICALLY looking at is the end rewards of the tracks. WvW and PvP do NOT play dungeons or season 3 maps, yet they can receive the rewards from those maps (i.e. the gather node materials, the season armor piece from the achievements) and dungeon armor and weapons.

Now: You people who play PvP and WvW don’t play this content are allowed to gain these rewards, yet Open world PvE players and Instance runners are not? These are not rewards even connected to your game mode, yet you are able to receive them. This is my point.

You play the content you are comfortable in and receive rewards specific to another part of the game completely detached from your game mode type (PvP/WvW). Yet those of us who play PvE, instance or open world, are locked off from other aspects of PvE loot because we want to play what we want or, in the case of open world trying to run instances, not good at. Instanced and Open World are two different play styles and two different aspects of the same game mode.

As has been pointed out you can say the same of PvP and WvW. PvP is small scale player vs player fights (Instanced is small scale player vs environment fights that take place between 5/10 man groups and harder enemies). WvW is zerg vs zerg and open world event warfare. Open World PvE is open world events and open world boss fights (zerg fights). These game modes (PvP/WvW and Open World/Instances) are not indifferent from eachother, yet are treated differently.

Nerfing our drop rates and adding in tracks, similar to that of WvW/PvP, would allow us to remain in the game mode we want while receiving a way to gain items from areas of the game we do not play. This has no negative effects on WvW and PvP, it simply allows those of us who enjoy instanced content to obtain items from open world areas, and open world players to receive items from instanced areas, in the same way WvW and PvP are able to gain items from from those areas without needing to play them.

If you want to talk about receiving rewards from only the areas we play then I suggest you look at what your tracks end goals are and see that what you are receiving has nothing to do with your game mode. I say again: If you received ONLY basic loot then this would be a none issue. But you receive, through your tracks, items none specific, or even related, to your game mode. Thus why I keep making the comparison of Raid and Fractal items for PvE to your Glorious, Triumphant, and Hero weapons. Those stay within their own game modes of PvP, WvW, and PvE respectively, while the items like Seasonal items and dungeon rewards be applied to both aspects of PvE as they are with PvP and WvW.

I’ve not once asked for more loot or more items or anything “more”. I’m asking for ways in which we can continue playing the way we want while slowly working towards other area rewards in the same way PvP and WvW are able to.

Ohoni.6057:

Ashen.2907:

Vyriis.6258:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

PvErs asking for more ways to get stuff easily. Why am I not surprised?

Not sure why people are looking at this as an “I want more rewards” thread. This is a “PvP and WvW receive items from content they don’t want to play, why should PvE be forced to play the content we don’t want to for the same rewards”, thread.

If it’s easy for us to obtain the season 3 map items and dungeon items (which is not true for all players while being able to play what they want for the day as well [or at all in some cases]) why should PvP/WvW? Why are we the only ones who have to forgo our content to obtain rewards outside of our content while PvP and WvW can remain in theirs and receive the same rewards? Not asking for more rewards quicker; asking for ways to play the way we want while receiving rewards from areas we don’t want to play. No different from PvP and WvW.

Perhaps I have missed it, but have you suggested lowering rewards for PvE, fractals etc in particular, so that adding reward tracks for those players does not increase the already significant gap between rewards in PvE and those in WvW/Pvp?

Yes.

You should probably read the words that others have written, and then
post a response of some kind.

Indeed. Ohoni has suggested this and I have, as well, replied with a similar suggestion in response to theirs. I have gone back and added it into the original post as well in hopes that people can see around the difference in PvP/WvW vs PvE income and see what it is I’m actually asking for here.

To anyone who has posted before this point: I have gone back to my original post and completely reworked it in hopes to sound less like I’m asking for more rewards and more in line with what my original idea was/is. I’ve taken things said in the discussion so far and added them in there as well.

@Ohoni: Would like you to take a look at it as well as I have added in a few things you suggested and you have been on my side, for the most part, and have been a major help. (still hoping anet looks at and thinks about this in some way).

Manimarco Devil.1790:

PvErs asking for more ways to get stuff easily. Why am I not surprised?

Not sure why people are looking at this as an “I want more rewards” thread. This is a “PvP and WvW receive items from content they don’t want to play, why should PvE be forced to play the content we don’t want to for the same rewards”, thread.

If it’s easy for us to obtain the season 3 map items and dungeon items (which is not true for all players while being able to play what they want for the day as well [or at all in some cases]) why should PvP/WvW? Why are we the only ones who have to forgo our content to obtain rewards outside of our content while PvP and WvW can remain in theirs and receive the same rewards? Not asking for more rewards quicker; asking for ways to play the way we want while receiving rewards from areas we don’t want to play. No different from PvP and WvW.

Snow.2048:

It’s a neat idea, but I think it takes away from the content. Why would you do dungeons if you can farm the rewards easier/faster in fractals? Who would go to bloodstone fen anymore if fractals is just as fast or faster? (as reward tracks give a bit more control over the rate of farming that blood stone fen lacks.)
Also to make it equal you’don’t have to remove most of the current rewards and put them behind their own track so you can’t get both at once, otherwise it’s just a flat buff to some of the most rewarding content in game.

Also I find this all a bit strange, you guys do know that the wvw tracks are only about 6mats/hour? If you want an ascended ls3 set as a wvw er, you end up going to farm the pve maps anyway. The only track remotely near worth it is rubies’ the rest I can farm all I need for 1 set in less time that it takes to get 50 of the mats in wvw. And I would have to give up other rewards either way, the OP gives the feeling like the wvwers don’t have any sacrifices
and can just do the daily farming after grabbing multiple tracks in a day (8h+ per track people, it’s slow af).

It’s a bit of the grass is always greener I think, reward tracks really aren’t as great as the pvers reward system.

Also a tip for the OP, farm the bosses not the nodes for wood (and rubies but rubies are still slow af). Hitting all the wood dropping boss event chains gets you to that 50 after two characters (9-12 from chests (skip skrilla if she isn’the up), 3 from dailys, 9-12 from the hearts you filled while doing the bosses/press, + any nodes you hit up on the way)

edit: the 6/hour is based on the rate without all the possible boosts in the game

What you’re missing is that I’m not saying WvW and PvP have no sacrifice. If you look at it this way, though:

WvW + PvP = Leave their content and go to the season 3 maps to gather nodes, do bosses, do dailies, return to their content continue working on their tracks. Stay in their content still work towards rewards for those maps.

Fractals and raids = Leave their content and go to season 3 maps to gather nodes, do bosses, do dailies, return to their content and get no more reward towards those maps. Stay in their content get no reward for those maps.

Open world PvE = Farm their nodes, play the bosses, do the dailies (all content they enjoy doing [or maybe some don’t overly enjoy specific maps]) get the rewards for it.

When looking at season 3 map materials WvW and PvP have options. Instance runners and Open world players only have one option and are punished for playing the content we want. Instance runners when it comes to NEEDING to play open world if we want those items, which means walking away from our content. Some people don’t have the time every night to play the content they want and go farm the open world maps while PvP and WvW can hop on, make a little progression in the tracks in the content they want then hop off for the night. Instance runners need to sacrifice their content to get the same thing PvP and WvW CAN obtain through their content or playing the content those rewards come from.

PvP + WvW = Leave their content, play dungeons, return to their content, continue working on Dungeon rewards. Don’t leave their content, make small progression towards dungeon rewards.

Open world = Leave their content, play dungeons (which some aren’t exactly good at and struggle with), go back to their content, make no more progression towards them.

Fractal + Raiders = Leave their content, play dungeons (Even some people who play fractals and Raids daily struggle with dungeons and don’t enjoy them), return to their content and gain no more progression.

See what I’m getting at. PvE players have to play content they might not want to obtain the items they might want or need while PvP and WvW have two ways to obtain those items. One being staying in their content and making small progression towards it or leaving and actually playing it, while PvE only have the option of leaving their content to play something they might not want or be good at or they just go without the reward.

Again: Not asking for more rewards in the tracks, just the final reward in the tracks (the armor/weapons or materials). Everything else in the track is not needed for PvE, this much I will agree with. Options is what I’m looking for, not bonuses.

Yes. I imagine it would tend to be a sort of 60/40 split, current activities would keep 60% of their default rewards, the track would provide 40% of the current rewards, and you could use that to either get 100% of the current reward of the current map, or 60% of the current map and 40% of something else entirely.

This here. Reduce the rewards we receive already to balance out the reward rate. The tracks will be no faster to complete than they are for someone playing WvW or PvP. They will just offer an alternative for those who only play one form of content to gain the items from another. Maybe not so drastic, as with my example we would lose out on the actual loot drops while gaining the final reward. So something more like 80/20, but yeah. If we did get the full on tracks a cut of 60/40 would make more sense.

Ohoni.6057:

It takes a LOT less time to farm for Bloodstone Rubies than it takes to farm for Legendary Insights, and it’s MUCH more fun, so that argument doesn’t really apply.

Very true. But that’s also because raids are locked behind weekly cap instead of daily caps. However for YOU it might be more fun to farm the maps. For me, and other raiders/FotM runners, it’s MUCH more fun to bash our heads against bosses all day (we like boring things, I guess).

It makes little sense for those to be crossed over as rewards and give reason to actually go to those areas of the game if you want them.

If players need something to show off that they’ve spent a lot of time doing something, then it should be in the form of a title, or something else that would have no intrinsic value beyond showing off that you’d done that thing. It’s like how if you win an Olympic activity you get a medal, a token, you don’t get exclusive access to owning a specific brand of car.

Titles are gained for many things and hold little meaning. A lot of people will wear what sounds good for their character and some will wear what took a while to obtain. But very few people actually look at titles or know where they come from. So it means very little when I’m running around with “Demon’s Demise” or “Silent Savior” or even my “Master of Secrets” titles when people have no idea where they come from or don’t even see them because they aren’t looking for them.

Legendary armor, Legendary back pieces, Glorious armor, Triumphant armor, Hero weapons, Fractal weapons. These are the medals. These show reward for playing a good amount of that content. They are not the cars in which we buy with the money we gain from the fame. Anyone can go out and buy a fancy car if they have the cash, but only those who work for it can obtain those medals (these items).

Take the vanilla legendary weapons, for example. When GW2 first dropped we looked at those and thought “Wow, that’s something I want and will be proof that I’ve played all aspects of the game.” Except they weren’t because people could just play the trading post (play stocks), get the money needed, and buy the fancy car before the people who actually worked for it. The WvW and PvP armor and weapons, the back pieces, and Legendary armor are the medals in which you actually have to work for, not something you can simply buy. They show dedication to those game modes. Do not trivialize them

There’s never any sense to having rewards that encourage players to play content that they KNOW that they will not enjoy, whether that means PvPing, raiding, or harvesting materials from maps. Once a player has decided that they don’t enjoy a certain type of content, there’s no benefit to anyone to encouraging them to keep playing it. The only valid role for content-specific loot is stuff that is quick and easy to get, stuff that’s designed to entice you enough to TRY the new content, to give it a fair shot at winning you over, but that then accepts your decision and lets you go.

If you love someone, let them go. If they don’t return, then they were never yours to begin with.

That last bit ONLY works with people. If you DON’T like content YOU wont be the one returning. You aren’t letting it go hoping it will come back to you. If you don’t like content and you don’t return to it you should lose the perks of that content. PvP/WvW players should not be receiving PvE rewards for not playing it just the same as PvE should not receive PvP/WvW rewards for not playing it. That much remains fair. But while they are receiving it open world players should have access to the dungeon items and Fractal/raid runners should have access to the open world items while remaining in their desired content much the same as PvP and WvW players are allowed.

But again, if you enjoy WvW, then you can do any WvW actions you like while advancing any track you like, whereas in PvE if you want Dungeon stuff, then you have to do that specific dungeon whether you enjoy that particular dungeon or not.
Again, nobody is asking for more loot. If you’re making $8 an hour now, you’d be making $8 an hour after, it would just be balanced differently, so that instead of getting $8 in wages and $0 in tips, you’d be getting say $5 in wages and $3 in tips, and that $3 could be in ones, fives, quarters, dimes, any denomination you like!

You keep flip flopping and it’s bugging me, bud. What you say here is pretty much what I’m saying. Not asking for more rewards, more pay, or a bigger advantage. I am, in fact, saying PvP and WvW have multiple ways of gaining certain items while remaining in their content that PvE players are forced to either play or they would have to go play WvW or PvP, which they also don’t want to play, in order to obtain them just the same. Open world players who don’t like dungeons have no way of obtaining dungeon items aside from playing them, yet PvP and WvW do. Fractal and Raiders have no way of gaining Open World items without farming those maps, yet PvP and WvW do. Why should we have to leave our desired game modes and play content we don’t want for rewards that PvP and WvW receive while staying in their game modes?

Remove the rewards from the increments of the track, that’s fine, that’s fair, we don’t need that in PvE. As has been said by myself and others, PvE already makes more gold/hour than PvP and WvW. What I’m looking at is the final rewards. Dungeon armor for Open World players who struggle with that content and don’t like it and Seasonal map materials and items locked behind achievements for instance runners who don’t enjoy that content. Not asking for higher pay; asking for the 401k and dental that PvP and WvW are privy to that PvE players are paying for out of pocket (if that makes sense to you).

Conner.4702:

No you are asking for more rewards. That is precisely what you are asking. You don’t want to leave the content you like to obtain items you want.
It most definitely is not in any way easier/faster/better to obtain items through reward tracks in WvW. It takes 5.5 hours at max participation with boosters to fill a track. The amount of dungeons you can do in that amount of times pales when compared to the rewards you get from the track. Same for gathering from nodes. It is way faster to just farm nodes than the track.

On top of that a WvWer needs to forgo other reward tracks during this time.

So you want reward tracks well only if you forgo any other rewards while it is active

5.5 hours for 1 track. That’s neat. That will net you 50 blood rubies. What does 5.5 hours in Bloodstone fen get me, while hitting all the nodes, doing the dailies, and getting the bosses? 15 rubies, if I’m lucky. That also means me leaving my desired content to go and farm those nodes and do those dailies and bosses. I also don’t receive potions from my content that I can hold onto to instantly finish a track if I have enough on hand, which most PvP/WvW players I know tend to have stacks of potions from their dailies. Yet you get to stay in your content and work towards the same thing while Raiders and Fractals runners need to leave their desired content to gain the same thing while praying to RNG to be kind? I will agree dungeons are easier to get the rewards from by actually playing them, this is true. The maps, however, are not. They are the same. However WvW and PvP have the option to leave their content, go farm and do the dailies and bosses, then return to their content and continue working on them while Fractal, raiders, and Open world PvE players all alike can only obtain them through those maps. This is the part I’m talking about mostly. PvP and WvW have two means to obtain them while PvE only has one. While WvW and PvP can remain in their content and obtain the same materials, Fractal and raid runners have to forgo their content to go farm these areas. This is not equality.

Asking for more reward I am not. If you have read any of my posts I am specifically saying to remove all other rewards from the tracks just to allow us that final reward chest with the materials in them. Or, as I had edited in what my friend suggested, a way to swap out/add in a way for leveling to reward these materials as well. This suggestion works just as well and would work for all game modes. So before looking at this as a “You filthy PvErs get enough reward as it is, bugger off” post. Look at it as a whole in that PvP and WvW have two ways of obtaining something that PvErs have a single way to obtain.

Ohoni.6057:

You people are seriously missing the point of what I’m asking for here. I’m not asking for some massive new reward that will give us way more loot and gold over PvP and WvW. I’m not asking to gain things only PvP and WvW are able to by playing their content.

Well, I am.

Not more loot than we’re getting now, but access to more variety in loot, to be able to earn PvP and WvW-specific loot just like they can earn PvE-specific loot. To be able to earn Raid and Fractal loot without having to do Raids or Fractals. I think that the type of content a player plays should be determined by the type of content he enjoys playing, rather than by the type of reward he’s chasing.

This would be the same as me saying “Give me the ability to get Warbringer without stepping into WvW” or “Give me Ascension without needing to PvP.”

Yup, make it so!

The reason I’m not asking for that is because it would trivialize the rewards of the content. See, I can understand why Season map materials are a reward for PvP and WvW. It takes a good deal of time to go into those maps and farm those nodes and hearts every day. This is not fun for people who don’t like that content. Dungeons have been dead in Anets eyes for a while now and those tracks have been out for so long now that that damage is done. However Glorious and Triumphant should remain specific to their area of the game to show that they spend a lot of time in that content. The same way Legendary armor should reflect that for PvE. Hero weapons should remain in WvW and PvP, just like fractal weapons should remain to fractals. It makes little sense for those to be crossed over as rewards and give reason to actually go to those areas of the game if you want them. Map materials and dungeon items were trivialized as soon as they became tracks in WvW and PvP, I’m just asking for PvE to receive something that allows us to just as easily obtain them as PvP and WvW.

People keep saying that they should be able to get fractal and raid sets from PvP and WvW if PvE receives anything, and if they don’t then PvE should respectfully buzz off. This is a very narrow way of looking at it. PvP and WvW already receive PvE rewards without setting foot in that content, so why should PvE not receive those same rewards? I’m not asking for more rewards to be added to the table or more rewards for PvE. I’m asking for a way in which PvE can obtain PvE rewards that PvP and WvW obtain easier in their own content rather than the struggle with RNG that PvE players are subject to while playing the PvE content those rewards come from. Equality and balance, not more trivialization.

If I want the Hero weapons or Glorious/Triumphant sets I will gladly walk into WvW and PvP and grind for them the same way I will work for Gift of Battle in WvW while anyone in WvW will have to come and map comp for Gift of Exploration. I would expect the same if WvW and PvP want fractal or raid items. People need reasons to go to content they don’t want. However, with that said, PvE players are forced to play content they don’t want to obtain certain items while PvP and WvW are not required to do the same when it comes to other PvE rewards. My example of Season 3 items remains my biggest gripe. PvE players are subject to RNG with these materials and we have to do the achievements for the armor pieces (which I have done) while PvP and WvW have the option to play that content or remain in their own content to work on the tracks for the same rewards. It’s not equal when two game modes can remain in their content and gain rewards easier than those who play the actual content that the rewards come from. Either everyone has to play that content for those rewards or everyone should share in those rewards while remaining in their own content. NOT asking for more rewards added to the tables, asking for the PvE rewards already in those tables that are easier for PvP and WvW to obtain be given to the PvE community.

Ohoni.6057:

If they ever implement this please make sure all fractal and raid drops (including raid legendary skins) can be obtainable from PvP and WvW.

Yes, definitely, AND from PvE.

You people are seriously missing the point of what I’m asking for here. I’m not asking for some massive new reward that will give us way more loot and gold over PvP and WvW. I’m not asking to gain things only PvP and WvW are able to by playing their content. I’m asking for a way for the PvE community to gain items from the parts of the PvE content that we do not enjoy playing, the same way PvP and WvW are able to gain PvE items from their desired content.

Legendary armor shows someone has put time and effort into raids, the high end PvE content. Legendary backpieces show that someone has put much time into their content. Fractal items show that someone has put time into fractals. This would be the same as me saying “Give me the ability to get Warbringer without stepping into WvW” or “Give me Ascension without needing to PvP.” That’s just not okay. However, with Dungeon and Season 3 rewards already a part of WvW and PvP reward tracks they are trivialized and locked out to be easier only for those two parties. PvE players are only able to obtain them via the Season 3 maps, whether we want to play them or not, open world players who don’t like dungeons would have to play dungeons in order to obtain the items they want, even if they don’t like/aren’t good at that content. WvW and PvP players? No, they get to sit in their desired content and get those rewards. All I’m asking for is the end rewards from those tracks obtainable in some way for the PvE community.

That’s not a greedy thing to ask for. It’s not something way out of base. I’m not asking for thousands of more loot rewards. I’m asking for a simpler way for PvE and Fractal/Raid players to obtain things outside the content we want to play. As I keep stating: Remove all the other rewards in the track and give us the final reward (i.e. the armor pieces/map material. I’m not asking to obtain high end items that only those who play such content are privy to (i.e. Glorious/Triumphant/Hero from PvP and WvW.

As Ohoni has pointed out in some of his other posts: Fractals and Raids are as different to Open world as PvP is to WvW. Open World is the WvW of the PvE community while Fractals and Raids are the PvP side. Yet they both have different reward tracks for their modes who both dip into rewards from the open world and instanced contents (dungeons). So why are they the privileged ones when PvE actually play this content, yet get screwed over by the RNG of those areas (Season 3 maps) or the difficult content (dungeons for open worlders). And don’t make the argument of “You should play the content you don’t want to if you want those rewards”. That would be the same as saying “You PvP and WvW should come to PvE and play the content you don’t want to for the rewards of this game mode”. That’s not even my point.

Look at items such of the Season 3 Maps: PvP and WvW are able to hop out of their content, grab the nodes of those maps, then hop back into their content and gain more. Making them MUCH easier to obtain for those game modes. PvE players, both Open World and Instanced, have to play the RNG game with the nodes as our only source. How is this fair to us and how is it greedy for me to ask for the same end rewards? It’s not. PvP and WvW don’t have to leave their game modes or play the RNG game while Instanced players have to leave their content and all PvE need to play the RNG game for them.

We also don’t have the ability to stock pile potions over time that will allow us to instantly finish a track for any reward that may be added into a reward track. Another point I keep making is the ease in which WvW and PvP are able to save up a means to instantly gain PvE rewards when an item is introduced that requires them, such is Aurora. People who have never even been to the season 3 maps before Aurora dropped were able to instantly craft it after having done the collections because they had the potions saved up to obtain the 250 materials from those maps needed for the crafting of it. How is this fair to the PvE community who have played those maps but never kept up with the node farming because it’s not a fun aspect of the game? Does that REALLY seem fair to you?

If you want to deny PvE a way to gain rewards from other aspects of the PvE community, that’s fine. But then I say any rewards a PvP or WvW players has received, via the tracks, from the PvE content should have them removed along with the track final rewards. The tracks can still rewards items and other materials. But cut and remove the exclusive PvE items from the tracks. That is the only fair way to go about it if not to give PvE a way to obtain the items already easily obtainable from WvW and PvP.

Alright, so a friend proposed this idea that sounds a little more reasonable than a full on Reward Track addition: Instead of giving PvE reward tracks in the same way as PvP and WvW, allow us to switch out our gain of spirit shards per level to another reward, such as blood rubies, petrified wood, etc, or dungeon tokens of your choice. This would remove the need to overhaul the reward tracks to not give PvE track any rewards aside from the final reward. Just a simple switch from Spirit shards to another level by level reward. Even a minor amount, like 3 or 5, per level would be a major help.

VanHalenRules.5243:

Ressurected.6312:

I agree, but first you’d need to nerf the drop of ascended chests and/or pure gold you get in fractals (not dramatically, but nerf it). As for raids it would be more interesting, since raids have not so good rewards in general if you compare the level of difficulty.

Agreed. The reason people live in fractals is because they are more rewarding than most other content in the game. Where else can you consistently farm for possibly the best gold source in the game AND regularly drop ascended chests (which would cost a LOT of gold to craft instead, take that into consideration)? And now there should be a reward track?

I think if you add reward tracks to fractals or raids, there might be a HEAVY drop off in people playing all other content.

The reason I play fractals is because I enjoy them. It has little to do with the amount of gold I obtain from them. As for the ascended gear argument: I’ve gone several months without an ascended chest drop. It’s not a matter of the reward, it’s a matter of what people actually enjoy playing. If the other game modes have a heavy drop off just because another game mode has an extra reward, which if you read my comments I’m suggesting only the final reward which has no gold value, then the people leaving the other game modes didn’t like them to begin with.

Also with the ascended gear argument: Ascended gear was released with fractals because it is required to do higher scale fractals. Ascended gear is not required anywhere else in the game. There is no real reason for it to be a “regular drop” anywhere else. Even with that said, though, ascended rings still drop in WvW.

Randulf.7614:

Vyriis.6258:

So you’re telling me it’s ok for PvP and WvW to remain in PvP and WvW, their comfort zone, and receive rewards from dungeons and the season 3 maps, but it’s not ok for an open world player to receive dungeon rewards or dungeon runners to receive season 3 materials because they should step out of their comfort zones? Does that really seem fair?

Absolutely 100% yes.

PvE players have dungeons as an option. if they exlcude a particular area of PvE, but still want those rewards, then they will lose out and it is absolutely right that they should.

WvW and sPvP players should be allowed access to these rewards without playing dungeons because they fall completely outside of their game modes. They still have to work for them, but they get rewarded for the game mode they love, whilst keeping that game mode alive.

PvE players already have the option of doing dungeons and fractals – it is part their game mode. And vice versa – instanced players have the full roam of open world which also a part of their game mode. There isn’t the same divide between 2 different PvE modes as there is between PvP/PvE and WvW/PvE.

As it stands, it is fair and has the added benefit of working.

Alright, but what about armor sets such as the Tribal set that is locked behind PvP? A PvE player would have to go play PvP in order to obtain that armor set. Now why should a PvE player need to do content they don’t want to receive an armor set locked behind PvP while PvP players can continue playing PvP and receive an armor/weapon set in the PvE content? This is still unbalanced. Either everyone has access to everything or everyone should only have access to the parts of their content.

People keep arguing that the tracks were meant as a means for PvP and WvW players to receive income, this is fine, this I understand. This is not what I’m asking. If it was merely a means of income they should not be obtaining PvE specific rewards, just as PvE players are unable to receive PvP/WvW specific rewards. It’s not balanced. For a PvE player to have to subject themselves to daily RNG as the only means to obtain certain items while PvP/WvW players are able to play the same RNG then return to their game mode and continue working towards those same items; this is not fair.

My argument being that PvE players should have a guaranteed way of obtaining some items locked behind ridiculous RNG or locked behind content they can’t play. There are many PvE players who just are not able to play dungeons because they are too hard, they don’t have people to play them with, or the groups the pick up are just bad. They should have a way to obtain those rewards by playing the content they want. PvP and WvW should not be the only ones with this privilege.

Again: Not asking for the same loot rewards per increment. Just the final rewards of the tracks. I’ve pointed out a few times now that Anet could even remove all rewards in the track aside from the final rewards and it would fall in line with what I’m asking. We do have a higher income than PvP and WvW. We do not have the same means to gain the map materials and dungeon items that they do, however.

This suggestion doesn’t hurt PvP or WvW in any way and does not put PvE players any higher above PvP or WvW players as they are now. It would simply equal out our methods of obtaining them. Everyone can go play those maps and dungeons. But only PvP and WvW have the ability to obtain those through other means.

starlinvf.1358:

You’re right, there are only three game modes. So why cut one out when it comes to reward tracks?

Because reward tracks are there specifically to boost sPvP and WvW “toward” the same wealth accumulation as PvE. It just doesn’t do enough to even come close to the gold conversion rate of even casual event trains.

Fractals and Raids have the highest gold conversion rate in the game by a wide margin. Even a T2 run for fractal dailies nets at least 5 gold for less then an hour of work. But in WvW, it takes around an hour to get a rank; and that only yields 75s and maybe an exotic worth 1g if you’re lucky. If the zergs are actually fighting each other consistently, you can get maybe 2 ranks an hour. Under these conditions, it actually COSTS more in siege and consumables then you’d normally make playing WvW; and was intended to have this cost shared across the participants (which not nearly enough donate). With sPvP, the earn rate is also really low, but at least it doesn’t have operating costs.

But sPvP had the Tournament rewards, which gave a huge boost to income if you could play a lot during the season window. You have no idea how huge a boon it was when they copied that over to WvW with Skirmish rewards….. for the first time, WvW had a reasonable way to get “functional” things like gear with desired stats, covering the cost of expenses, and stuff that was previously only available through Crafting and Farming map metas.

And even with that sharp increase in rewards…. is STILL less then what Fractal and Raid farming puts out, and with far less consistency due to the nature of server match ups.

So I’m sure PvE is really suffering from this terrible loss by not being able to put in twice the amount of time needed to get the same reward, and making less gold on the side.

Not asking for the tracks for gold gain. Not once in my post did I mention how I was looking for more income. I’m looking specifically at the final rewards of the season 3 and dungeon tracks in which, with the season 3 tracks, you gain a flat amount of those map materials (Blood rubies, petrified wood, etc). Where as the PvE players can only obtain them through RNG farming WvW and PvP players can both grab the RNG nodes and work on the tracks to get the 50/100 at the end of the track.

Not asking for more income. Asking for a way for PvE players to just as easily obtain something WvW and PvP players are already obtaining easily. Cut out all the incremental loot drops and give us the final reward. That’s all I’m asking for.

SrebX.6498:

Well, it had to come. Someone just had to be enough of a sassy crybaby to ask for that…
PvE gets you a kittenload of rewards already, this level of greed is astonishing.

If we did manage to get a track similar in function I would even be okay if there were no incremental reward that provided more loot drops and just get the “Reach 20,000 points and receive the map material or armor box”. I’d be perfectly fine with that. That would still allow us another way to obtain those materials and items.

Yup. I’m being a sassy crybaby. Forgive me for asking for something PvP and WvW already have just without all the loot they gain from it as well. You look at WvW and PvP who can play their tracks all day in the content they want and build up potions to gain loot from content they don’t play. If you want to talk about greed, then that is it. If you want to talk fair then WvW and PvP should not have tracks that give them material specific to Seasonal maps or PvE content, just like PvE has no way of gaining anything from PvP or WvW without going to those game modes. So greed, no. Equality, yes. Some of us just want to play fracts and raids, others want to play just open world. We should be allowed tracks that allow us to obtain rewards for the other areas of PvE by doing what we want just like PvP and WvW obtain rewards from PvE while playing content they want.

Not asking for the filler rewards, just the final reward. Read through the conversation and think about what it is being asked before out right insulting someone.

Cyninja.2954:

Those are literally your openings for your first 4-5 posts and you are conveniently accusing others of not having properly read your original post with the last one you actually calling some one else narrow minded. A nice way to create superiority and dissmiss different opinions. That’s giving attitude.

There is ofcorse a 2nd possibility to this if you have to repeate the question if people have read the original post: maybe you were unclear in which case again the fault lies with you and not people responding to your thread. Or as I said, thye might just disagree.

You could have just as easily started any of your replies with:

- I disagree and have pointed out in my original idea …
- no that is not what I was talking about…
- I get what you are saying, I still think that…

That’s how you create engaging conversation.

I read your tl;dr and I’m telling you why I think PvE doesn’t need it

So forgive me if I’m just assuming people only read the tl:dr, as most people will read the title, have their opinion that a certain thing should not happen, read the tl:dr, assume that what’s being asked is something outlandish, then dismiss it.

I say again, I’m not giving attitude. I have no issue with what others have to say. I’m a bit crass when it comes to responding to people who probably only read the tl:dr without giving proper thought to what the bulk of my post is saying, however. I’m not saying people can’t think what they want. And to those that heave read the post and still disagreed I will continue arguing my point.

And now that you’ve gotten that out of your system do you mind halting your attacks and be constructive to the topic?

Randulf.7614:

There are only 3 officially recognised game modes though – PvE, WvW and sPvP. I understand what you are asking, but it’s asking a lot for Anet to cater for every niche player. The subset of players who never run anything other than raids/fractals is probably so low, that it wouldn’t be worth the time/resources to invest in producing tracks.

The reason WvW/PvP got the tracks was because the rewards they were getting was extremely poor – considerably below what raids, fractals or most other niches of PvE are able to get. And of course the numbers of players exclusive to those game modes is likely pretty high.

At the end of the day, if you only restrict yourself to a tiny niche of 1 mode of a massive game, then to get the rewards you desire, it will mean venturing outside of the comfort zone.

I’m an open world/story player and I can’t get Legendary armour or dungeon tokens or fractal skins etc without venturing into those appropriate modes. Is it fair I can’t get those without doing something different? Yes, yes it is.

You’re right, there are only three game modes. So why cut one out when it comes to reward tracks? My example is to Fractals and raids, sure, because that’s what I play. But look at it in the broader scope: If they added a track for PvE that allowed those of you who play open world only to be able to obtain dungeon armor, like WvW and PvP players currently can, without setting foot in the actual dungeons, then why not do it? You might play the season 3 maps all the time, but I, and those of us who raids and run fracts all the time, do not. So obtaining what’s in those maps takes forever, especially when we can farm every node and maybe get a single material from them. However WvW and PvP players do have access to a quicker means of gaining those materials.

I’m not suggesting something that gives us so much more loot that we’re rolling in the cash and laughing at the other game modes. I’m not asking for something that will break the game balance. I’m asking for something that the PvP and WvW community have that allows them to stay in their content, gain items from content they don’t play, and are also able to build up the means in which to instantly gain material from that content when something drops that requires it (i.e. Aurora requiring 250 of each of the S3 map materials).

If they want to add a track for open world, PvP, and WvW, for people to get fractal items, sure, fine, go for it. But there is one thing that should stick to the high end PvEers, and that’s Legendary armor. I will not ask for Glorious armor or Triumphant armor to be given to anyone in PvE, there needs to remain a difference in what these game modes offer in some way. Legendary backpacks are the same way. Yes, this is Fashion Wars, but there are some items that should not be shared through every game mode. I’m asking specifically for something WvW and PvP already have that make it way easier for them to obtain something PvE has to pray to RNG for.

The track I’m proposing wouldn’t be giving us way more loot than we already receive, just an alternative to what we are receiving while we play the content we want. Or in the case of Open World players who do play those maps yet still suffer the grace of RNG; a guaranteed means of obtaining those materials.

At the end of the day, if you only restrict yourself to a tiny niche of 1 mode of a massive game, then to get the rewards you desire, it will mean venturing outside of the comfort zone….

Is it fair I can’t get those without doing something different? Yes, yes it is.

So you’re telling me it’s ok for PvP and WvW to remain in PvP and WvW, their comfort zone, and receive rewards from dungeons and the season 3 maps, but it’s not ok for an open world player to receive dungeon rewards or dungeon runners to receive season 3 materials because they should step out of their comfort zones? Does that really seem fair? So two game modes can remain in their comfort zone and reap the reward from PvE content while PvE players actually have to go around and play the content they possibly don’t want to while also not being able to gain anything from WvW or PvP as well? Does that really sound fair to you? Because it sounds wrong to me.

Either remove Season 3 and dungeon rewards from WvW and PvP, which the damage is already done, so I don’t see that happening, or allow for PvE players to work on the same things in their desired game modes. Not a copy paste of the tracks they have, as the loot we need in PvE come from our active playing. It’s the end reward that I’m mostly looking at. Incremental rewards aren’t needed for the PvE track, just the final big reward of dungeon set pieces or the map materials. That is all.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Should there be Reward Tracks for every part of PvE preference? One for Jumping Puzzles? One for underwater combat? One for World Bosses? One for Story Instances? One for Gathering? One for Activities?

I mean, there are lots of different parts of PvE that certain parts of the playerbase prefer. If the Devs give PvE reward tracks for one segment of PvE, should they not give them for all segments of PvE?

I’m not trying to be contrary, but I’m sure that there are many ‘I prefer to only play this part of the game’ groups of players out there. I’d certainly like a Reward Track for my preferred gameplay. It would only be fair.

You are certainly right in that there are a lot of ways to play that would make making a track specifically for each one a real bother. However, with that said, as much as PvE is a blanket term for anything that isn’t isn’t competitive, so too can the groupings be. As I pointed out: Raids, Fractals, and dungeons could all work towards the same track while Open world events such as World bosses, dynamic events, and, yes, jumping puzzles, would all be another one. Combat, of course, would contribute in a small way to the tracks as well, say: so many kills equals such and such amount of progression. Or you could just throw all that out and say anything you do in PvE contributes to the same track. Fractal completed = W, X, Y, Z amount (Depending on tier). Dungeon completed = F amount. World boss = E amount. Dynamic event = A, B, or C amount (depending on Bronze, Silver, or Gold). There are a few ways to go about it. I merely went to raids and fracts as that is my preferred game mode. Certainly there are ways to apply it to both aspects of PvE, that being Open World and instances.

Bridget Morrigan.1752:

Hey, I’d be all for this…just as soon as they put reward tracks in the open world and WvW/PvP for magnetite, fractal skins, stabilizing matrices, etc…..

Asking for a track in which PvP and WvW could gain Magnetite, fractal skins, and stabilizing matrices, goes against what I’m asking for. That would be the same as me asking for this track to include triumphant and glorious sets and the Hero weapon sets along with proof of heroics, shards of glory, and memories of battle. Each game type should still have its own unique rewards that can pull people into that content. PvP and WvW are just as unplayable for some people as Fractals and Raids are for others. Keeping those rewards specific to those game modes is still needed.

Dungeon reward tracks and Season 3 reward tracks do not offer items that are specific to WvW or PvP. There is no reason they should be obtainable by people who wont play that content, but not obtainable by those who are perceived to actually play them. Not everyone in PvE plays that content, just the same as PvP and WvWers wont play them either, yet PvP and WvW get the rewards from them. I’m fine with that, as long as we get a share in it. You can keep your prestigious sets while we keep ours, but the tracks that have been out long enough already where the need to play those areas of the game is no longer needed (Season 3 maps and Dungeons); we should get a bite of those. Again, not saying a complete copy of them. Just something similar. Same end goal, less filler.

Ohoni.6057:

This is all subjective, “the things I care about matter, the things you care about don’t.” Yeah, PvP didn’t used to offer great rewards, but PvP doesn’t need any rewards, since a day-one account player can do PvP just as well as a five year vet account can, player skill is all that matters. WvW also makes little difference what quality of gear you have. I think it’s fine for them to have rewards, but they don’t need them, so if we’re making arguments based on necessity rather than desire, then they’re both out too.

The simple fact is that plenty of people do not enjoy the game modes that you single out as “PvE for people who want nice things.” These players want nice things too, without having to do those modes. For those that argue that a PvE reward track would be "double dipping, " there are ways around that, like reducing the base rewards for these activities a bit, but in a way that would not harm the overall gain.

For example, let’s say there is a CoF PvE path. You can advance it by doing anything in PvE, with different activities offering different amounts of progress. Consequently, the base rewards from clearing CoF would be reduced slightly, but if that’s your focus, if you’re just farming CoF, and you turn on the CoF path, then the combined loot gain would be comparable to what you’re used to, and a faster way to get all CoF rewards than doing other activities.

The benefit, however, is that it now gives you options, both the option to turn the CoF track on and farm other activities you enjoy more while still advancing towards CoF completion like a PvP player can, OR to farm CoF if you prefer and advance along the Bitterfrost Frontier track if that’s the reward structure you want.

Thank you. This is pretty much what I was thinking. I’m not asking for something to give us way more rewards than the other game modes, just a way to balance it out so that we aren’t forced to play the game types we don’t want. People who want to only play open world events should be allowed to only play open world events while being able to obtain some things, not all things, that are locked behind other content.

Dungeon tracks are part of WvW and PvP already, so they don’t have to touch that content and still obtain those rewards. So why not a way for open world PvEers to obtain them as well? The rewards from the tracks don’t have to be as substantial as they are for WvW and PvP, as they don’t receive the same amount of drops, but they should get something so they aren’t forced to play those just to get something they might want that is already available to everyone else.

Which is my point with a track for Fractals and Raids. We enjoy that content, but don’t care for the open world content that much (or at least some of us don’t). So why not give us a track that allows us to gain rewards from those areas just the same as PvP and WvW. A similar design, not a complete copy, of what WvW and PvP already have. Each of us wants to play what we want how we want. That was Anets original statement. So why not share the love with all game modes. A modified version of the reward tracks for the Open world side and the Fractal/raid side would help with this.

I will note that I left dungeons mostly out of the reward track idea as, I did point out in my original statement, they already have the “complete 8, receive 5g and 150 tokens of your choice”. This is already a very easy way for people who run dungeons to get what they want fairly quickly and without having to touch the dungeons they don’t like. However I think maybe dungeons, if a track is placed in for raids and fracts, gets included in that category. So progression in Dungeons, Fractals, and Raids work together on the same track, while open world has its own.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

WvW & PvP are fundamentally different game modes from PvE. Raids and Fractals are instanced versions of PvE.

You can do 100% raids & fractals and get good loot; that didn’t used to be true for WvW or PvP, which is why they have reward tracks. So again, in my opinion, the reason there’s no such thing as a track for those playing FotM or Raids is that it isn’t necessary.

You’re right on one account: we don’t need it for the loot itself. However if you don’t look at the incremental rewards and look at the one reward I do keep pointing out, that being the final reward of the tracks, then you can see what I am talking about. We do get much more reward for our time spent in our content. An exact replica of the track system for our game mode would be more on top of that and blow it out of balance. That is, however, not what I’m looking at.

They could even just take the final reward from those tracks and split it among the incremental rewards. Say: 50 Blood Rubies from finishing the track. Split it up into, not eight, but five increments. Each rewarding 10 blood rubies/petrified wood/etc. with no actual final reward. Just that same thing over and over. Or even have the increments be unbound magic or, because I’m looking at this as something for fractals and raids, pristine relics or magnetite shards for the increments (only) with the final reward being the map materials or armor.

I’m just looking for a way to balance it out so it’s not only easy for WvW and PvP to obtain these from playing their desired game mode, but also give a way for PvE players to get it just the same instead of having to rely on good ol’ RNGsus.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I’ve got no issue with what you are asking for, as long as you remove most of the rest of the loot from completing fractals/raids etc. You’d then get the same amount of loot for time spent as in WvW or PvP.

Equality is what you are asking for, yes?

Equality is what I’m asking for, yes, but what I’m not fully asking for is a track that perfectly mimics that of WvW or PvP, either. We do get a massive amount of reward over PvP and WvW, this I will not argue. What I’m looking for is a way to receive the season 3 maps materials, and any other map rewards that are to come, through content I want to play. PvP and WvW are able to receive Season 3 Map materials and the special armor pieces that come with those areas without having to play that content. However Fractal and Raid players have to drop what they are doing and go play it if they want it. This does not seem fair. And us gaining an exact copy paste of the reward tracks, which does give loot other than those map materials and armor pieces, would be wrong for me to ask for, but I would like something that would work in a similar way.

If we did manage to get a track similar in function I would even be okay if there were no incremental reward that provided more loot drops and just get the “Reach 20,000 points and receive the map material or armor box”. I’d be perfectly fine with that. That would still allow us another way to obtain those materials and items.

Cyninja.2954:

People have read your post, they have read the tl;dr.

It’s called disagreeing.

Maybe if you gave less attitude people would be willing to disscuss things more instead of blaming others of not agreeing.

You’re on a public message board, your opinion is bound not to get shared by everyone.

On that topic, it makes sense to encourage less popular game modes via additional rewards. Pve is by far the biggest segment with the most diverse content both gameplay and rewards wise. There is no need to fix something that’s not broken.

See what I did there, not fun arguing with attitude is it?

Hey, Bud. I wasn’t giving attitude. Nothing I said or will say is me not being ok with people disagreeing, but thank you for your attitude. What I am trying to do, however, is make it clear why it is I am asking for what I am. I’m looking at this from all sides yet it seems most people are only looking at it from the black and white “You are a PvE player who wants twice the reward”. Not blaming people for not agreeing, I already knew it was going to happen. Again; just trying to, strongly, put logic behind the request that people are most likely going to overlook as it’s “more rewards for PvEers.”

I agree: PvE has the most diversity. But what I am trying to point out, which even you have failed to see, is that diversity is exactly that, diverse. Not every aspect of PvE is liked by all PvE players. As I am saying with every reply: A lot of people only enjoy playing Fractals. Some people only enjoy raids. And some really do enjoy the open world. This is a great thing that people have content that they like and are good at. However, with that said, not every PvEer, just like how WvW and PvP players, like all the PvE content. Some people pop on to play the open world maps, that’s fine, that’s great. So they get to farm their materials and do those dailies and have fun doing it.

What about those of us who don’t, though? Those of us who don’t like that content and want to play what we do enjoy, which happens to be Fractals and Raids? PvP and WvW players get to play the content they want while working on tracks that allows them to gain the rewards from the open world maps. That I am fine with. But why is it the people who run Fractals and Raids are actually forced to put down their content, for however long it takes, until they obtain what they need from the new maps?

People keep saying that PvE is one game mode, so what’s really the difference? You’re right, sure. We all like to kill AI, that much is the same. But what’s your point? AI acts different and is more difficult depending on the area. Now I, and a lot of people I know, don’t like the open world maps. They are not engaging and are just frustrating to play through. Yet we very much enjoy Fractals and Raids (Funny; we like bashing our heads against the same thing day after day just like WvW and PvPers, yet are treated differently). I’m not saying to give Fractal and Raid runners all the same tracks as WvW and PvP players get. I’m asking for a track that will allow us, and the other PvE players who might not want to jump into WvW and PvP, to obtain the materials that are locked behind RNG on these open world maps.

PvP and WvW players can jump out of their desired content just as easily as Fractal and Raid players, farm the material, then go back into their maps to continue progressing on tracks that will give them more of those materials. Fractal and Raiders, however, have to leave their desired content, farm the maps just the same, but when we return to our content we make no progression towards anymore. We are stuck with just what the map decides to give us that day.

All I’m trying to say is: before looking at what I’m trying to say as attitude and the inability to accept what others are saying. Do look at it as “this is a public forum meant for discussion.” I presented my point, the people are arguing their point, I’m arguing back in hopes people can see it from my side. I already assumed this was going to be an unpopular topic, as you can see in the very first line of what I said. Doesn’t give me any less right to argue my side of it to make it clear why I’m asking for what I am and hoping people can open their eyes and see I’m not just asking for more rewards. I’m asking for a way for all PvEers to receive something that PvP and WvW players are already getting an upper hand on over those who actually play the content that those rewards are coming from.

Khisanth.2948:

The reward tracks are to allow PvPing and WvW to get PvE equivalents. Putting them in PvE would just end up double dipping.

It’s not double dipping though. I’m going to say again: Stop reading the TL:DR before you people post. I’m looking at the Season 3 Map materials like Blood Rubies, Jade shards, and Petrified wood. They are spread far around, there are few of them, and they are stuck behind an RNG wall. PvEers can go and farm them, sure. But grabbing all the nodes in the area might only reward me with a single ruby if RNGsus feels like blessing me that day. Sure, we have the dailies that give a few more. But this is still little compared to the PvP and WvW players who can go do the same and then go back to the game mode they want to play and continue working towards more. Or they can save up their potions and just blow them all on the track to get what they need of them right away (as many people did when Aurora dropped). So I ask you: Who is really double dipping? The PvEers who only have one way to obtain the map materials or the PvP and WvWers who can both farm the maps and work on tracks?

I really don’t understand why I need to repeat this over and over while you people seem to not be able to read and understand and look at this from both sides. I’ve played the track game. I have friends who play WvW and PvP who have obtained those materials much faster than the people I know who play only PvE. The tracks should not be PvP and WvW exclusive. They get to play the content they want all day without having to step into a PvE map and play content they don’t want to, but yet get the PvE rewards? Fracts and raiders get to play the content they want all day long without needing to go into a game mode they don’t want and they…. Get crapped on because they actually need to go play content they don’t want? Makes sense? No, it does not.

Fractal and Raiders play what they do because they like to and may only have time for that little bit per day. I know some people who come home, play their daily fracts, then need to log off. They don’t have time to go farm, while praying to RNGsus, just to get shafted and obtain a single material per day when they don’t even like that content. Competitive players may be toxic, but you don’t have to be ignorant as well. Not everyone enjoys playing the open world. Our game mode, that being Fracts and Raids, should not be any different from PvP and WvW in terms of the progression we can make on maps none of us want to play.

And to say that fracts and raids get more rewards than PvP and WvW, sure, yeah, ok. I can see this in some ways. PvP and WvW also have rewards that PvEers can’t obtain either, that’s fine. There should be a split between the two to show which you actually play. Howver forcing us to play content that the PvP and WvW players don’t even want to play yet the PvP and WvW players can still get the rewards for while staying in their own game mode; does that really seem fair to you?

Haishao.6851:

Vyriis.6258:

For those of us who only run raids and FotM when we log on we DO NOT go out and farm the season 3 maps. We do NOT get dungeon rewards. Yet WvW and PvPers do from just playing their game mode.

Stop doing only raid or fractal and go farm or do dungeon. How complicated is your life?

Ok, you narrow minded fellow. If it’s so easy for me to go and do the open world content and dungeons then it is JUST as easy for a PvPer or WvWer to do the same. Saying just because I choose to play a game mode that happens to be PvE I should stop playing what I want to to go play something I don’t, yet someone who gets to play something they want all the time and doesn’t need to play something they don’t, yet the latter will get the rewards from the content neither of us want to play… That’s fair to you? And it’s not about complication in life. It’s about time and playing with RNG. It’s not about going and farming. If you people would stop just reading the TL:DR and read the actual post you’d see I’m saying PvP and WvW players are able to go and farm the season 3 maps, get the materials, then go back to their game mode and grind those out until they get more of those materials. Where as those of us who play only fracts or raids are stuck with playing the RNG game with the nodes and then getting shafted while the PvP and WvW players stock up on their potions until the next thing drops that they can spend them on and get rewards for without putting any actual effort into those new areas.

For those who are only reading the TL:DR I say this again, before commenting that PvE already get’s all of what I’m asking for actually read what my post is saying.

For those of us who only run raids and FotM when we log on we DO NOT go out and farm the season 3 maps. We do NOT get dungeon rewards. Yet WvW and PvPers do from just playing their game mode.

What I am suggesting is a track that allows us raiders and FotM runners to work towards the season materials the same way WvW and PvP players can. You people play one game mode and yet have access to the PvE rewards. I’m not asking for PvE players to receive PvP or WvW rewards at all. I’m asking for Fractal and Raid runners to be able to gain other PvE rewards in the same way by playing the game mode we want to.

If you read my post you will see what I’m actually talking about. PvP and WvW CAN go to the season three maps, grab the nodes, and return to their game mode and continue working towards more. HOWEVER we who only play FotM and Raids are unable to do that. Our game mode is just FotM and Raids. Most of us don’t like going into the competitive game modes. So we are locked into only grabbing the nodes in the season 3 maps. I don’t care about any other rewards from the tracks. Just an easier way to obtain those materials that the competitive players can obtain through both farming the nodes AND playing their own game mode.

If you want to say it’s just as easy for a FotM or Raider to get anything else in PvE then I say anyone from WvW and PvP has just as easy a time getting them. There shouldn’t be tracks for the seasonal maps that allow them easier access to those rewards. So stop trying to shut down something you apparently aren’t looking at from more than one angle.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

PvE already has reward tracks:

• Dailies in each LS3 zone provide extra local currency plus unbound.
• Major events in L3 zones provide local currency + unbound.
• HoT events provide tons of local currency.
• And of course, gathering in LS3 zones.
• Core Tyria zones literally have an event-reward track, which can also be bypassed by spending karma on Pact Scout Mapping Materials, allowing you to show up in a zone, double click a few times, and collect.

Will people read the post before responding, please… I get I put in a tldr, but read the post before pointing out things I’m speaking directly against. Yes, PvE has a all of that. But, sadly, Fractals and Raids are part of PvE. Yet if we only run fractals and Raids, like someone who runs PvP or WvW, we lose out on the rest of the PvE “Game Mode” that PvP and WvW get as tracks. PvE is made up of Open World and Instanced content. Those who play open world get their Season 3 stuff every day. Those of us who play the instances every day are in the same boat as PvP and WvW players, but without tracks we are further in the hole. Not everyone who plays in PvE likes to play the open world yet we are punished for only playing Fractals, dungeons, and raids in a way that PvP and WvW are not.

What I’m actually asking for is “Fractal and Raid tracks”, but can’t say that because then I’d have to argue, because people wouldn’t read, that I’m not asking for a fractal or raid track for WvW and PvP, but rather tracks for Fractals and Raids that work the same as PvP and WvW tracks.

Klipso.8653:

One of the primary reasons for tracks is that PvE already has a ridiculous amount of loot.

PvP & WvW have no way of getting certain items without leaving the game mode. And the loot is pretty slow even with the tracks added.

So did you read my post? PvE isn’t all one “Game mode”. You have open world, dungeons, fractals, and raids. Not everyone enjoys every part of it. For those of us who pretty much ONLY play Fractals and Raids are in the same boat as those who ONLY play PvP and WvW. We would have to step out of our game mode in order to obtain those same things. If you read my post you’d see where I pointed out that I’m asking this because of the season 3 maps. PvP and WvW are able to jump over to those maps just as easily as us fract and raid runners and grab those nodes, then jump back and work on their tracks. Us Fract and Raid runners, however, jump over to those maps, grab the nodes, then go back to our Fracts and Raids only able to obtain the rewards related to those game modes…

What I’m saying is that Fractal runners and Raiders spend 99% of our time in those game modes, the same as PvP and WvW players. I’m not asking for us to get access to the Glorious or Triumphant sets, just like WvW and PvP don’t have access to Fractal weapons or Raid weapons. But WvW and PvP have access to Dungeon gear AND all the season 3 map rewards while just staying in their game mode. Fractals and Raids don’t have that. If we want those rewards we have to leave and go there. Not sure how I can explain that any clearer.

Restructuring this because people are missing the point:

WvW and PvP are both able to obtain items from the PvE content without needing to set foot into PvE. These items include Season 3 Map materials and armor piece that come from the achievements as well as dungeon armor and weapons. Now I can understand the need for WvW and PvP to have rewards tracks in order to have a form of income and a way to obtain items in their game modes, I am not denying this in anyway. I’m also not going to be suggesting that PvE gain any form of income boost or bonus rewards for playing our content.

I am however going to suggest a means in which to alternatively gain PvE items for players who don’t play all aspects of the PvE side of the game. By this I mean a new track, not much different from that of PvP or WvW, but in enough ways where we are not gaining more than we are now. So let me lay out why this suggestion has come up:

PvP + WvW: Players of these two game modes are able to play the content they want while working on tracks that allow them to gain items from the PvE game mode. This being dungeon rewards and Season 3 map materials and items (And I’m sure this will be applied season 4 as well). Now they are able to stay in their content and work on these tracks without having to set foot into those areas outside of the first time to unlock the tracks. They are also able to leave their content and go play these sides of the game. In conclusion: two ways to obtain these items. One to leave their content and play it, the other to stay in their content and work towards it a bit slower.

Open world PvE: Players who play only open world PvE content are most likely out playing the Season 3 maps anyways as it is their desired game mode. So they are able to work on these items at their own pace while in the content they want. What about the dungeon rewards, however? Some open world players might not be so great at dungeons or fractals, yet if they want the rewards for them they would be forced to go and play those game modes. PvP and WvW don’t “need” to. So why should Open world PvErs?

Instance runners (Fractals, Raids, Dungeons): This is my group. We enjoy playing the instanced areas with our time in game. Much like PvP and WvW we don’t spend a lot of time outside of those areas and when we do we tend not to overly enjoy it. Now we as well only have one way of obtaining Season 3 rewards and dungeon rewards; and that is by playing those areas of the game. I personally know a few people who run fractals and raids daily who struggle with dungeons and visa versa. I also know a lot of people, myself included, who don’t like getting over to the season 3 maps to grind bosses, nodes, and dailies for the map rewards when certain things call for them. WvW and PvP have this option; why not Instance runners?

Here in lies my suggestion: Why not a way, similar to the WvW and PvP tracks, for those who play only open world to gain rewards from dungeons and fractals while fractal, dungeon, and raiders have a way to obtain open world items such that as the season 3 (and most likely all seasons to come) items? These tracks would take just as long as WvW or PvP tracks to complete, so it’s not exactly a “faster” means to obtaining items, just an alternative way.

These tracks can either have the full reward increments that the PvP and WvW side have, while reducing the overall drops/rewards from the content being played to progress them, in a 60/40 ratio. Or the incremental rewards can be removed all together, rewarding other minor things such as a few dungeon tokens for dungeon tracks, unbound magic for seasonal maps (or w/e is to come with next seasons), or relics for fractal tracks while only slightly reducing the drop/rewards from the content played to an 80/20 ratio.

This would allow even PvE players to play their side of the PvE content that they want while still being able to receive items from other aspects. Some people don’t have time to play what they want as well as the areas of the game that are needed for other things. This issue only applies to PvE, however. As has been stated in the conversation in this thread: Instances and Open world are as different to eachother as PvP is to WvW. Yet both WvW and PvP have tracks to gain items from other content while remaining in their own area while instance players or Open World players have to give up the time on their areas of the game to work towards those items.

In conclusion: _Not asking for more rewards as many seem to think and might think. I’m asking for an alternative way for PvE players to play the content they want, “Play the way you want to play” – Anet, while obtaining items that are outside of our areas of the game, in a similar way PvP and WvW are able to.

TL:DR: PvE, both Open World and Instanced, should have a way to gain items from eachother without needing to play that content. Much like WvW and PvP are able to gain items from PvE, PvE should be able to as well. Will take a cut in drops, in that of a 60/40 ratio, for the full track work. Or remove the incremental drops while leaving the final chest for an 80/20 ratio. Not more rewards, just an alternative way to obtain specific rewards.

Adding this in: TO BE CLEAR!! I’m not asking for too much here with this. I’m not asking for every track from WvW and PvP. I’m specifically thinking of Season 3 map tracks and the dungeon tracks. Could also add in a fractal track for PvE players, only, much like the Glorious (PvP) and Triumphant (WvW) tracks. PvErs can ONLY obtain certain items through playing that content where PvP and WvW can remain in their content and still get rewards for content they don’t play. I’m just asking for a way for PvEers (Instanced and Open Worlders) to do the same.

Getting kinda tired of pointing this out to people. Rangers are people of the land. “Range” is not meant as in distance but rather range as in land. Rangers are people who watch over and protect land. Look at park and forest rangers in real life.

Even the official description from GW2 site states: “Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled survivalists with traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.” They are not your rifle toting hunters. They are the protectors and tenders of nature. Stop trying to put rifles in their hands; it’s never going to happen (or at least I hope not).

Levetty.1279:

This video shows us the fuse animation for a bunch of pets and one is a Dolyak

Don’t think those are the fuse animations. If you watch when she fuses with the warthog at the start of that bit it has no such animation. I’m gunna go ahead and say those animation (Bird, Bear, Dolyak, and Wolf) were the stances.

Karaha.3290:

I guess you just found bad lfg groups for fractals.
I mostly do fractals with revenant and dont have problems.

Same in raids, you actually can do some raidbosses with rev.
Cairn/Deimos – Kiter, easiest Job for this bosses.
VG/Matthias – Condition rev is good dmg for this bosses.
Sabetha – Kiter/Healer is also a thing here.
Escort – At least condi rev ist the best class for backwargs. Wargs cant even run 5 meters.

Yes, revenant is no allround dps class like cranger/ele but you can play it on raids.

I dont play wvw so i cant say anything about this.

Pretty much this. I play condi Rev and my friend runs Power Rev and we bust through Dungeons and fracts with no issue. When we pug we don’t have any issue seeing Revs either as they do pump out enough dps to be worth keeping around. And as long as you’re built dps we don’t care. Heck, we’ve even run 4/5 Revs a few times with no issue and were just as quick with our fracts as normal. Some groups are just so “meta” that they can’t see beyond what qT or other “meta builds” are saying.

I do remember playing condi Rev in raids when they first dropped and was doing a good amount of dmg. Tried it again when wing 2 dropped and was still doing good dmg. And now that they’ve been buffed I see no reason for them to not be useful. It’s just a matter of the idiots -ahem- people you run into.

Either way, though; keep at it. Rev is still a great class. Just need to find better company.

My group runs daily Nightmare mote with two Full Vipers Condi Rangers. Have yet to have an issue with dps. Heck, I’m able to, as one of the condi Rangers, take out two of the echos on my own before time’s up. Survival is just a matter of learning where to stand, how to strafe, and when to dodge. And given you’ll have shortbow you even have an extra dodge on rotation.

I run: Wilderness Survival – 312. Beastmastery – 233. Skirmishing – 111 (Other runs 131). Only reason I run spotter is because we run with Aura instead of Druid.

Shortbow + A/T. Lynx + E. Wyvern. Troll Unguent, Flame Trap, Viper’s Nest, Sharpening Stone, Entangle. (Reason for Wilderness Knowledge: Condi clears and fury on Survival skills, which are 3 of 5 utilities). Toxic Focusing Crystal and Rare Veggi Pizza. Full Vipers gear with 2 Trapper and 4 Nightmare runes and Earth and Geomancy sigils on both weapon sets.

ardhikaizecson.3697:

This is something that made me wondering, what is the real mean of the word ‘Sorrow’ in guild wars 2? the word is literally overused, there are Sea of Sorrows, Ship of Sorrow, Sorrow furnace, Sorrow embrace, Sorrowful sound, Sorrow’s Eclipse, Sorrow’s bay, Final Sorrow, Sigil of Sorrow. it must be means something in gw2 lore.

It means exactly what it is; Sorrow. Sorrow’s Furnace and Embrace gets its name from the Dredge that were enslaved and forced to work in the mines originally. Sea of Sorrows most likely gets its name from the amount of people lost to it when it was being discovered/traversed. Sorrow’s Eclipse name comes from the Kodans loss via the Dragon and their need to move from their homelands. Sorrow’s Bay, for anyone who’s played the story, knows that there was a great many lives lost holding claw island. Sigil of Sorrows, like any other sigil associated with a dungeon, just takes its name from an aspect of the dungeon. Final sorrow is an item for a quest in which you visit the graves of lost loved ones. Ship of Sorrows and Sorrowful sounds were aptly named due to connections to the Sea of Sorrows, most likely.

TL:DR – All of these that you have listed us sorrow for its actual meaning: a feeling of deep distress caused by loss, disappointment, or other misfortune suffered by oneself or others.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So…mechanic-wise, yes; lore-wise, not so much, is what it seems to be.

It is exactly this. Just imagine, if you will, that Tyria is the Americas (North, Middle, and south). Let’s take a chunk of that, Frosgorge to Orr. Now imagine walking from Hudson Bay Canada (Northern edge of Frostgorge) to Cape Horn Chile (Southern edge of Orr). Not such a fun walk to make, nor explore fully, in the time most people would be willing or able to put into a game. Not exactly practical. Thus shrinking down of what would otherwise be massive expanses is needed for reasonable gameplay. So, as said; Mechanic wise it is the entire map. Lore wise these areas are massive beyond the scope.

Can tell for yourself just how different they are lore to mechanic by reading the “Edge of Destiny” novel and then going to play the areas they go through. Ebonhawk to Ascalon takes them several days/weeks and is a hard journey. Where as we can walk from Cursed Shore to Frostgorge Sounds in less than an hour with little to no danger.

The only issue I have with the asymmetry in gw2, which can apply to a good chunk of armor, is it’s all right side asymmetry. By this I mean anything that is large goes of the right side. This bugs me to no end. For example: Braham’s new outfit, Medium Legendary Shoulder, or, as OP said, the glacial gauntlets. They all have the larger design on the right side. There are also a bunch of leg cloths/armor that cover only the right leg or designs that add more material to the right side. This annoys me as it’s not something I could do irl without feeling “wrong”. I’m not saying asymmetry is wrong. Just having an option to switch items from right to left and visa versa would be much appreciated.

Would have to say that is a Giganticus Lupicus. Pic for reference of one up close. Slightly smaller than GW1. But then again it could easily be an adolescents skull. Or humans could have grown a couple extra feet in the past 250 years.

Gotejjeken.1267:

As someone running trapper runes in WvW, I have to disagree that they are ‘fine’. Not being throwable and not being instant hurt them a LOT.

I also disagree spirits are fine, I know of zero builds (non-PvE) that use them. It’d be nice if they’d make them useful as GW1 spirits were pretty awesome.

Guess you missed the part where I say that not all skills are going to be top tier for all game modes. Spirits are a PvE based skill. They do have a place in PvP, though not “meta”, in which they are effective. Now, yes, they do suffer uselessness in WvW but that’s mostly due to blob vs blob gameplay.

As for traps: You’re going to ask for spirits to be more like GW1 spirits while asking that traps not be anything like GW1 traps or even be “traps” for that matter. Traps are meant to be placed ahead of where your enemy is going to be in order to disrupt and ensnare them. Not throw them over walls like grenades. The traps we have are already better than what they were in GW1 as they only take half a second to place rather than the two seconds they took in GW1. Also they do about as much as they did when triggered in GW1, so there’s that as well.

Now as for my wording of “They are fine”. They are fine; not great, not horrible, but in that spot where they are still usable and effective in niche situations. Builds change from game type to game type and that’s the way it should be. Or you learn to use them effectively, unconventionally, in your game type. Just like in GW1, or any game for that matter, you can’t expect them to make every skill as good as it’s going to be in any game type for every game type. It’s just not going to happen.

Now is this me saying that they shouldn’t be improved a bit? No. But this is me saying that they aren’t as “lackluster” as the op is looking at them as being or that they are completely useless and need major reworkings. They are, as far as I can see, in a spot where they allow Rangers to be viable in all game modes using different builds.

InsaneQR.7412:

This is a list of all ranger skills i think are neclected or lackluster.

Signets: Signets have a function in PvE and SoS has a also a position in PvE but they all feel kinda lackluster or have to long CD.

Spirits: Frost- and Sunspirit are used in PvE for buffing but are pidgeonholded for Raidcontent. Stone- and Stormspirit are barely seen in any content.

Survival: LR and ZS are more or less used but could use a CD reduction. SS and MT are used to but feel lackluster especially SS.

Traps: Frosttrap and Vipersnest are inferior to the other two.

I do not make suggestions at first i want to hear others and discuss.
Feel free to suggest.

Just by saying everything is lackluster doesn’t provide enough feedback to make your post worth looking at. And it should not be “Before I suggest anything I want to hear others.” You should post how you feel before you expect others to tell you how they feel.

However; Spirits are fine. I still use 5 of 6. Water, Stone, Frost, Sun, and Nature in raids. I use Sun and Frost in Dungeons and Fracts as well during boss encounters where we are in controlled areas. i.e. Molten furnace and boss, volcanic, battlefield, Mai, Cliffside, Uncat, etc, you get my point. I will say, however, that Storm spirit has zero use given how easy vuln is to apply game wide without an additional 75% chance and the activation skill doesn’t do enough to take it. Storm, however, is the ONLY spirit I’d say is truly lackluster and is due for a rework.

Traps are fine as well. Saying that vipers nest is inferior to the others is actually quite wrong. Vipers is actually much better than spike. Spike procs once with a 6 second bleed on a forty-five second cd and no combo field. Vipers procs 3 times for 9 poison stacks on a 20s cd and provides a combo poison field for projecting through for more poison. Frost trap, however, is still niche to PvP and WvW, but is still useful. Just like spike might be more useful in PvP/WvW due to it’s added launch. I use Vipers and Flame trap when on the move before switching to spirits for boss fights.

Signets I also have to disagree. These are tide turning abilities in PvP and I’ve used all but stone in PvE for boss encounters and solo roaming on power builds. My only issue is with hunt being just one attack. Should be boosted to the next three attacks. Stone is an Oh Shait button that gets you out of danger, so deserves the high cd (though I will still kick rangers running this on sight as it shows lack of skill in PvE) and Renewal, though cd is a little high, is also great when people on your team don’t build into high condi removal. Wild turns you and your pet into the hulk for 8 seconds, the 60s cd isn’t unfair, but could possibly be lowered in PvE.

Survival: You say that SS is lackluster, but it’s really not. It applies 6 stacks of 10s(base) bleeds, which is 20s with 100% condi duration, on a 30s cd. That’s only 10s down time on those bleeds, if even that, given the 1 stack per hit causing it to spread the application. Still a good skill. I use it as one of my primary skills and is part of the meta for raids. LR and QZ have fine cds. QZ breaks stun and grants 6s of superspeed and quickness. Not sure how much PvP you play but this allows for a nice break away from pressure or allows for bursting down an enemy in your face or trying to get away. LR, also as a PvP skill, is very strong, even with its high cd. Evade, stun break, 10s vigor, removes immob, and deals dmg to melee attackers. 40s cd on this is fine. I don’t use MT at all but I’m sure it has its applications somewhere in PvP or WvW.

What people seem to overlook when they come right out and start saying all their utilities are worthless is that not all skill are meant to be top tier in their game mode. Ranger has a nice kit, though some are very niche, they almost all have a place somewhere and are useful. This is more than I can say for some other classes. So before calling all of our utilities “lackluster”; look at the bigger picture and all possible applications and possible reasons for having a high cd.

Utilities are meant for just that, utility. Though some do function as actual attacks, such as our traps with their low cds, they are meant to be used strategically to get you out of trouble, help you take down tough targets, help you hinder escaping targets, or supporting allies. They are not all meant to be these “spam on cooldown” skills that everyone treats their weapon skills as. But that’s just my two cents.

Name – Shaman
Weapon – Offhand Axe
Utility Skills – Spirits

A bit on the OP side, I think. But what I was going for is there anyways. Critique away.

Weapon skills:

1. - Feast of Souls: Call upon the spirits to heal yourself and nearby allies. Heals extra for each spirit within range.
   Cast time: 1s – Cool Down: 15s
   Target: 5
   Heal amount: 450
   Range: 600
   Spirit range: 900
   Healing increase: 5%

1. - Spirits’ Gift: Heal and Protect nearby allies and weaken nearby foes. When cast your spirits heal nearby allies.
   Cast time: 2s – Cool Down: 25s
   Target: 5
   Heal: 225
   Protection + weakness: 10s
   Range: 600
   Spirit heal: 575
   Spirit heal range: 600

Utilities:
Healing:

Recuperation – Allies near Recuperation regenerate health over time.
Cast time: 1s – Cool Down: 20s
Target: 5
Initial heal: 3,750
Spirit range: 1,000
Recuperation Healing: 375
Interval: 3s
Duration: 60s
-Spirit to Flesh: Sacrifice Recuperation. Nearby allies are healed for a large amount.
Cast time: 3s – Cool Down: 20s
Target: 5
Healing: 2,250
Range: 300

Utility:

Shelter – Allies near Shelter take reduced damage. When damage is reduced Shelter loses health.
Cast time: 1s – Cool Down: 20s
Target: 5
Spirit Range: 1,000
Damage reduction: 25%
Health lost: 200 (Shelters HP 14,000)
Duration 60s
-Spirit Bond: Sacrifice Shelter. Nearby allies gain protection and Vigor.
Cast time: 3s – Cool Down: 20s
Target: 5
Protection: 20s
Vigor: 20s
Range: 600

Atonement – Allies near Atonement return damage to their attacker. (Flat damage only)
Cast time: 1s – Cool Down: 20s
Target: 5
Spirit Range: 1,000
Damage returned: 50 (Scales with Healing Power)
Duration: 60s
-Ancestors’ Rage: Sacrifice Atonement. Nearby allies gain retaliation and fury.
Cast time: 3s – Cool Down: 20s
Target: 5
Retaliation: 20s
Fury: 20s
Range: 300

Wither – Nearby allies siphon health with each attack.
Cast time: 1s – Cool Down: 20s
Target: 5
Spirit Range: 1,000
Siphon damage: 50
Siphon heal: 35 (scales with healing power)
Duration: 60s
-Soothing: Sacrifice Wither. Nearby allies gain resistance and regeneration.
Cast time: 3s – Cool Down: 20s
Target: 5
Resistance: 5s
Regeneration: 20s
Range: 600

Patience – Nearby allies lose a condition over time.
Cast time: 1s – Cool Down: 20s
Target: 5
Spirit Range: 1,000
Conditions removed: 1
Interval: 4s
Duration: 60s
-Spotless Soul: Sacrifice Patience. Removes all conditions on nearby allies.
Cast time: 3s – Cool Down: 20s
Target: 5
Range: 300

Elite:

Cacophony: Summons Shadowsong and Bloodsong. Nearby allies recieve more healing and nearby foes take increased damage and are periodically blinded.
Cast time: 2s – Cool Down: 60s
Target: 5
Spirit Range: 1,000
Damage increase: 5%
Healing increase: 5%
Interval: 5s
Blind: 2s
Duration: 60s
- Clamour of Souls: Sacrifice Shadowsong and Bloodsong. Nearby foes are dazed, blinded, chilled, and tormented. Nearby allies gain protection, vigor, fury, retaliation, and are healed.
Cast time: 3s – Cool Down: 60s
Target: 5
Healing: 5,000
Range: 900
Boons to allies: 30s
Daze: 2s
Blind: 5s
Chill: 30s
Torment(10): 30s

Traits:

Minor:
Ritualist: Death Shroud is replaced with Shaman’s Shroud, which is support oriented.
Vulnerable Torment: Inflicting vulnerability applies torment.
Bountiful Misfortune: When you torment an enemy heal allies around target for a small amount.

Adept:
Soul Barbs: Allies under the effect of spirits periodically inflict torment.
Spiritual Gaze: For each spirit active nearby enemies damage is decreased.
Explosive Growth: Summoning a spirit heals allies in the area.

Master:
Merciful Marks: Marks heal allies when triggered.
Spiritual Charity: For each spirit active allies recieve increased healing.
Burdened Soul: Sacrificing a spirit inflicts slow and torment to nearby enemies.

Grandmaster:
Shrouded Nightmares: Shroud skill 1 applies chill and torment to enemies hit.
Spiritual Strength: For each spirit active allies damage is increased.
Boon of Creation: Summoning a Spirit applies fury and might to nearby allies.

Shaman’s Shroud:

#1 – Renewing Surge: Release life force in an area infront of you healing allies and siphoning health from enemies.
#2 – Withering Mark: Applies Withering weapon to allies. Next five attacks siphon life.
#3 – Remedy Mark: Applies Weapon of Remedy. Next three attacks clear conditions.
#4 – Shaman’s Intervention: Pulse healing and retaliation to allies.
#5 – Wailing Mark: Apply Wailing Weapon. Next two attacks stun foe.

My main issues with this bow:

1. It’s Red: Now I wouldn’t mind red effects, like blood mist or blood soaked foot falls, given what the bow is based on. But for the entire bow, being tiger themed, to be red instead of Orange or white; the heck were you thinking??

2. Bulky: Short Bows are meant for fast fire and easy maneuverable in close quarters. This bow does not look or feel like a short bow. Too large and way too much clutter.

3. (Not) Tiger Themed: Aside from the tigers on the shaft of the bow; it does not say tiger. If you took those away this bow would look more tribal or fire themed than tiger. And as many have pointed out it’s just a Glorified Crimson Lion skin. Not saying those weapons didn’t look nice. Just saying I was hoping for an actual Tiger themed bow, not a Crimson Lion bow with tiger idols.

Necrotic.7820:

The difference is that with the one who appears offline with no information, does not have you in their friends list.

The one who is offline but still shows location and achievement is someone that does have you in their friends list.

This is false. As I can remove someone from my friends list, who does not show the information, and they will appear on my followers list (a list of people who have you on their friends list whom you do not). As for what does cause it, I am not entirely sure.

Dantert.1803:

“Abaddon! Lord of the Everlasting Depths, Keeper of Secrets, open mine eyes and bestow upon me the knowledge of the Abyss…”—from the Scriptures of Abbadon [sic], giver of magic ".

We know from Gw1 nightfall that Abaddon is evil, yes true he was the God of Secrets, so it makes sens that is guarding the secrets of the Durmand Priory, but still, he did a lot of bad stuff, he is like the Devil of Gw universe… for example (I take GW2W by word here) “the Searing of Ascalon, the Cataclysm of Orr and the Jade Wind of Cantha, as well as many tragedies which occured indirectly as a result of those events, such as occupation of Kryta by the White Mantle and their mursaat overlords, which led to the Krytan civil war. Abaddon created strife against and within the human race for many centuries, manipulating the Charr in their invasion of northern human kingdoms of Ascalon, Kryta and Orr, and ultimately causing civil war in Elona which, aided by his humanborn worshippers, nearly resulted in his release.” .

Abaddon was not inherently “evil”, though. Being locked in the realm of torment has adverse effects on all, even gods. All those events were to remove humans from the world as they were the followers of the gods who imprisoned him unjustly.

Though Abaddon is the “keeper of secrets” you can also look at that as the “God of Truth” as well. as one of the phrases stemming from his teaching is “act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy.” it can be safe to say he was also the most just god as he was imprisoned for distributing magic to the races of the world. The others are “evil” for trying to prevent that. And before you go and say “they were against it because the races were killing eachother” that is part of acting without mercy. The natural state would be for races who can think outside of instinct kill each other off until they can learn to live together in harmony.

It can also be speculated that the reason Abaddon was trying to distribute magic was because he knew about the Dragons and figured that if the races had magic they would stand a chance. Or that with magic being distributed to living beings it would be harder for the Dragons to consume it. And with that you can say that the other gods also knew about the Dragons and did not want to prevent them from rising again, thus putting the magic in easily accessible stones and imprisoning the one god who wanted to prevent the worlds destruction.

Dantert.1803:

So what? Abaddon worshippers in the Durmand Priory? Not suspicious at all they say…

As said above. Abaddon was not inherently “evil”. And on top of that was the “Keeper of Secrets and the God of Truth”. There for of course the Priory would worship a god of the like. And why not, then, worship the new Goddess of truth? Well because they probably, as many GW1 players do, view her as a false God. Not worthy of the title.

Dantert.1803:

Then when you go in the next rooms you start to see other things like the tail of Zhaitan hanging from the ceiling and some experiments connected to the dragons in the room closed by a metal grid where the tail starts.

The priory, like the other orders, are trying to find ways to defeat the Elder Dragons. Using the tail as a base for their experiments would not be beyond the realm of reason. If they can devise some sort of “anti-dragon magic” or “Dragon’s Bane” from Zhaitans tail, maybe it would work, or be the bases for producing one that would work, on the other Dragons.

Dantert.1803:

One of my friends showed me the last time that if you dance in front of the statue of Abaddon the god will punish you by putting you into downed state, an yes I know, that’s an easter egg from gw1 dencing Abbaddon, but let’s say it has an actual meaning, that the god has still some power on the Gw2 world even though he should be deceased and his powers as we know it from Gw1 Nightfall was absorbed by Koromir and Lyssa.

All this is is a non-canon nod to GW1. Has no bases in lore. Though, going with your theory; I will say that even if Kormir absorbed all of Abaddons magic it can be safe to say she absorbed some of the magic that had been twisted from his time in the Realm of Torment. Would not be out of bounds to say that with the knowledge she obtained from him that she now fully understands where he was coming from, and through his remaining effigies, is trying to continue his work in the end. Though this would not be brought on by who he originally was but rather by his twisted tormented self when we finally ended him (if he truly did die).

Dantert.1803:

So I ask, why?
Why is there a statue of the fallen god into the Basement of the Durmand Priory?
Why does he still have the power on life and death?

As has been stated. It is in mint condition. Whether is was recently crafted or found else where it is a part of history and a symbol of the true God of Knowledge. Thus reason for the priory, keepers of history and wisdom, to have such an item.

Dantert.1803:

Also there’s the topic of the tail of Zhaitan.
Now we know that when a dragon dies a huge amount of power is released, we saw that with Mordremoth, but when we killed Zhaitan nothing like that happened, he fell in the sea and that was it. Then for some reason no one talks about it, the undead are still there and then our character, the Pact Commander discovers this hidden place right under the Durmand Priory with one of the tails of the undead Dragon, a tail that should be dissolved in my opinion after the dragon “died”…. yes “died” because after the fall of Zhaitan in the final mission we speak with Caithe, that sneaky, liar and traitor son(daughter) of a leaf, and she tells us that we succeded. (Totally no bad feelings left against Caithe…none XD)
No mission to be sure that the evil is dead right? And we end forgetting about it..
The start of the tail also is closed in this room where we can peek into from a metal grid, and what is clearly visible is that they are attaching machines to the tail, probably extracting it’s power…or maybe trying to revive the dragon or keeping him alive…
There are other experiments related to the dragon but you can’t get inside. You are the Pact Commander and you can’t get inside and have an explenation about what’s going on in there.

<Equips tinfoil hat> Alright, so onto Zhaitan’s “fall”. As we don’t actually see it’s dead body anywhere, just the tail that we managed to blow off, we can not confirm nor deny that it is dead. Unlike Mordremoth in whom we’ve killed both in mind (Through PS) and in body (Through DS) and can sort of confirm through the final cut that it’s power is in fact released from it; we can not say the same for Zhaitan.

Now here’s where the theory comes in: There is an area in Orr that we were supposed to get for the final, ground, battle against Zhaitan. This area is still there and I’m sure Anet has not forgot about it, given the vision we have in Omadds’ Machine (oh yes, remember that). It was confirmed later on by means of the Durmand Priories ceiling that the orb that crashed into the center was Zhaitans. So this could easily mean that Zhaitan is not in fact dead and still threatens Tyria. Now, I would have ignored this theory if not for the way they are handling Raids. Through a raid they could easily take us back to Orr for the final push and eventual kill of Zhaitan (A true battle worthy of an Elder!)

Dantert.1803:

I guess is quite obvious then that there is something evil going on in the Durmand Priory, they are Abaddons worshippers with a twisted interest into the power of the Undead dragon, they took a piece of it and they keep it alive that near to our beloved LA, imagine if they manage to revive the dragon or something goes wrong, the city would be doomed…

Final note on this. If you try to tell me that all followers of Abaddon are twisted evil creations and point to the Margonites. I will state this simply; Margonites followed Abaddon before his fall and instead of giving up on him continued to follow him. And even Margonites can distinguish between right and wrong as we have seen with a few NPCs in the realm of torment. Priory are seekers of wisdom. Abaddon is the God of Wisdom. No reason to believe them evil or having an ulterior motive simply because they follow such a god. I, for one, still believe Abaddon as the only true God of Secrets, Wisdom, and Truth.

Justine.6351:

Tl,Dr

Wasn’t even attacking you.

Wasn’t saying you were. Just pointing a few things out is all.