Or corruptions could just not apply conditions to yourself since there is no logical reason to do so, and the only reason why it exists is a poor throwback to gw1 where corruptions actually meant something.
It’s a net buff in terms of killing stability.
Currently, since it’s removed last you’d need to get them down to 5 boons for CB, 2 for PoC etc to strip stab. This is still the case after the patch, but you can now do so less reliably even if they have more boons.
Often though (and especially for the weaker boon removals) being able to reliably strip might, (as often people get loads of might) was pretty useful. Post patch, that’s much more difficult.
The introduction of resist makes boon corrupts much weaker overall though, so eh.
Corruptions are not strong enough to justify self applied conditions.
Those conditions are negatives If you think otherwise then you’re ignoring the fact that condition cleanses all have CD’s, and are all extremly important to only use when needed, not waste on junk that your own skills are applying to you.
It’s a gimmicky throwback to gw1 that shouldn’t exist with the current benefits of corruption skills.
I see you didn’t get to experience the heyday of melandrugrass roaming warriors. Yes its possible, and yes it is incredibly strong. Essentially means that you can take any matchup against any other power spec and reduce it to taking turns smacking each other in the face.
It’s additive with +duration effects tho, so condi specs can still lock you down
Those warriors were awful.
Just running away constantly, jesus christ.
It’s a qustion of balance, not realism, which frankly has no reason to be considered here.
From the necro point of view, if teleporter were effected by cripple and chill, that would be huge progress towards letting us actually hold people in combat.
12s spec walk compared to 3s slick shoes is a tad different.
It says that those shouts were still heavily in the process of being balanced, which they were.
Which is why we post feedback.
I never said it’s not difficult to hit multiple targets.
I’m saying it makes it a joke to balance, because it is exponentially more effective against 5 people with augury, then against less targets without.
It’s the exact same trap that has left necro as a class sub par for so long – ideal situations where we are strong where we’re balanced around, which leaves us weak in less ideal circumstances.
If you think shouts are bad even with augury and 5 targets, what does that say about the skill’s balance, not to mention build variety in terms of traits.
I could also see Spectral Armor absorbing projectiles shot at you, while Spectral Walk could cause the trail left by your movement with the skill active to reflect projectiles. Spectral skills in general outside of Spectral Grasp feel as though they could have a reflect/block component.
TRON Deathcycle – I like it. Make it block movement, too.
That would be a genuinely hilarious way to stop people from escaping, although would be pretty abusing in WvW zergs.
Because both the effect and CD of shouts is based on having a high number of targets and augury.
This makes it extremely front loaded and imbalanced towards large groups, and exponentially worse against less without the trait.
The Augury trait honestly hurts the viability of shouts.
The skill itself already is more effective against multiple enemies, because it’s AOE.
The trait being more effective against multiple enemies also (and conversely, being really bad when not used against multiple enemies) only serves to pidgeon hole shouts into the same “ideal circumstance” trap that has seemed to plague necro since release.
Like, yes, YaaW is rather powerful when it’s 20 might/6s+ of weakness and a stun break every 16.25s
But when it’s every 25s? The might is only 4s, depending on targets it’s only 4 stacks of might – suddenly, it’s not so good, is it.
If the CD was consistant, then it would be far easier for me to swallow, since using it in non ideal situations would only reduce the effectiveness, but not also the CD.
TL;DR Having both the effectiveness and CD scale with number of enemies make the gap between ideal absolute best and realistic/worse circumstances too large, and hurts the viability of the skill when it gets balanced against the optimal, trait supported circumstances.
Edit: It’s even more hilarious when you look at the elite.
Terrible cast time aside, with augury it’s CD is 78 seconds, that’s pretty great.
If you are 1v1, or don’t have the trait however, 120s is pretty meh for a super telegraphed skill that can be completely nullified with a dodge or blind.
(edited by War Mourner.5168)
Login to character
Click chest and accept the dailies window thing
see the daily reward appear in the scrolling loot window thing
Nothing appears in inventory.
I only just started playing again about a month ago, and noticed one or two times items that the daily gave me but didn’t appear in my inventory.
I assumed I had just misseen them so I didn’t really care, but after I finished a month of dailies, I actually looked on the wiki at the rewards.
Today (day 4) I should have gotten a chest of black lion goods. I saw it on the side/loot display thing, but nothing appeared in my inventory.
Inventory search and relogging didn’t show up anything, and I’m 95% sure this happened the previous month, although I don’t know how many times, or if it was just this particular item.
Am I misunderstanding something, or is something odd going on?
Looking at all the upcoming changes as a whole, I’m tentatively looking at a PvP build something along the lines of the following.
Traits
Spite: Bitter Chill/Reapers might, Chill of Death, Close to death
Soul Reaping: Speed of shadows, Vital persistence, Death perception
Reaper: Chilling Nova, Chilling Force, Blighters Boon
Weapons
GS
Dag/horn(or staff)
utilities
Consume conditions, Well of Suffering, Nothing can save you/You are all weak, Spec walk, Lich
Equipment
runes of strength
Sigil bloodlust then hydro/might/energy/whatever works best
Berserker? (depends on what happens with the stat points that don’t come from traits anymore)
A lot of this depends on:
How well we can realistically keep chill up
How well we can maintain might
And by extension of the two above, how much sustain blighters and chilling force can realistically provide.
For example, bitter chill is only good if we’re able to successfully apply lots of chill, where as reaper’s might would be more useful for reliable and long uptime might.
Being purely melee makes kiting a big isssue so I could very well end up using staff, but I feel that dag/horn will go rather well with reaper. If I focus purely on team fights, then team mates can help make up for the lack of range.
Vital persistence + speed of shadows maintains reasonable mobility even when swiftness is down, and also lets you spam charge a lot. If the cleave from unyielding blast translates to something useful for RS though, I might use that.
If horn + speed of shadows provides enough mobility, I could tentatively use You are all Weak over spec walk, for double shouts, which would then make Augury a more attractive option for spammable stun break/might burst (good for WoS), and plentiful unblockable. The lack of Chilling Nova would hurt my ability to apply chill significantly however, which has serious knock on effects due to Chilling Force, Blighters and Bitter Chill, so on top of the loss of mobility from no spec walk, probably won’t be worth it.
Having both WoS + NCSY makes you pretty good at bunker busting, but no matter how you look at it, Reaper has significant issues dealing with:
Mobility
Ranged attacks
Condi cleanse
All three can be managed with a decent team comp, but it’s not going to be terrible useful in 1v1, and it comes back to the age old question: Even if it can work, is it worth taking over class/build X?
Basically, Reaper has a fair few options when it comes to build, and it will have a role to play, but it’s balanced by pretty significant weaknesses that need to be played around and managed, so I can’t possible see it as OP, at this point.
(edited by War Mourner.5168)
I may very well end up being wrong, but I don’t think decimate defences will be worth using compared to chilling force in most situations.
In PvE, it’s already extremely easy to get very high crit chance on top of death perception, so the might will usually be more useful in terms of maximising dps, unless your party/you are already up to keep you stacked up as is.
In PvP, Chilling force allows for extra damage and sustain (especially combined with blighters). For a class without proper damage mitigation, I don’t think thats worth missing out on.
The long ICD on siphoned power stops that from being terrible powerful with blighters, but of course every little bit helps.
Also, in terms of investment to keep high chill uptime, chilling nova is pretty critical to do so, which means you can’t use augury. Without augury, shouts really just aren’t that fantastic, when they’re competing with other utility skills that aren’t so dependant on traits. If you take Augury over Chilling Nova, your chill application falls a lot.
Chilling nova is actually the key factor to keeping a high chill uptime.
It’s effectively a chill only epidemic which runs 3 times every 10 seconds. A traditional ICD would actually be more effective for keeping constant chill (for example ICD 3s etc), instead of the more likely burst of AOE chill that the x3 every 10sec will do (depending on crit chance), but I’m not complaining there.
It is important to note that using nova means not taking Augory, which significantly weakens the potential strength of using the shouts.
On the flip side, running Augory significantly effects your ability to maintain AOE chill due to the lack of chilling nova, although I honestly don’t think running multiple shouts on a condi build would be worth it anyway, but we’ll see.
Literally one ele or other class with ready access to aoe cleanse in a team fight, and any hope of perma chill goes out the window.
Without chill on everything aroun you all this sustain goes out the window.
If this was based on something you applied to yourself, then it would be significantly different, but because it relies on a single condition applied to loads of enemies, it’s a whole load of variables stacked together to try achieve this, and even then, 3 guys focusing you down? I’d still pick a class with invuln every time.
I don’t know where you got this 3/4s thing from, each one has a cast time of 1/2s.
If you watch the video, it’s about 2s to run the full autochain.
In the ideal circumstance, you get the following:
4 stacks of might and 7% LF for each of the first 2 attacks.
6 stacks of might for the last hit and 21% LF for the final attack.
Total of 10 might and 35% LF per auto chain, which is about 17% LF/s
That of course assumes perma chill (aka: utter lack of condi cleanse) and targets basically runnng screaming into youfor no particular reason, which is utterly improbable.
I really don’t see the need for any nerf, considering how hard it will be to keep perma chill on 5 targets, when the RS auto doesn’t naturall cause chill, and our most reliable method of AOE chill, Chilling Nova, already has its own cap, as well as a very short duration.
Honestly the best way to figure this out is throw a reaper against an ele or warrior and see how well the chill sticks.
Currently, lingering curses does not effect condition duration.
It literally increases the base duration of the scepter skills’ conditions
Honestly the best part is blighters boon, which means you gain LF (or health) per boon you recieve.
This includes boons from allies, which means you can generate (depending on your comp) a reasonable amount of LF before the opening fight.
This also makes pulsing sources of boons (such as both our transform elites, an RS 3) sources of a bit of extra sustain.
(edited by War Mourner.5168)
Essentially it comes down to not chill duration (although that of course helps), but how frequently we can apply chill.
And the answer to that is ‘not that often’.
GS auto chain is 3s or so long, and the final hit is highly telegraphed and very much worth avoiding.
RS doesn’t have chill on it’s auto – it relies on 3 and 5. While both these are rather good at giving chill (especially the ice field) it is based on semi long CD’s.
Suffer and CttB both have long kitten cast time, and long CD’s.
Sigils, runes, traits and base necro chills all help, but essentially it’s extremely unrealistic to expect anything near ‘constant’ chill, with the sheer frequency of condi clears in the meta – which will can only go up when things like rev and reaper start kittenting out conditions everywhere.
I don’t know why everyone’s in a rush to nerf everything well before release, when that’s exactly what happened to base necro and we’re still sufferin for it today.
We haven’t seen most of the classes specs yet – it’s better to er on the side of “too powerful” then adjust it from there after release, rather then releasing a useless trait and hope Anet ever buffs it to viability – a bit like what’s happened with the necro class in beta/at release, hm?
I still can’t understand why Anet thinks Lingering curse is a good idea.
Not only is the idea of a single trait doubling all condi durations unbalanced as hell, it also makes any other source of condi duration literally redundant, which included other traits.
Anyone who uses curses + reaper, will have 30% chill duration and 20% bleed duration wasted on their main weapon set. Bonuses from runes or sigil are also wasted, same with the fear duration trait.
Even putting balance aside, it’s simply bad game design.
Spectral walk backwards, gapclose.
spectral grasp, gapclose.
f1 -> rs2 -> f1 -> gs5 gapclose.
fleshwurm run gapclose.
eh not so problematic.
RS 2 and wurm are our only real movement skills (it’s a real shame RS doesn’t have dark path + charge, oh well). Wurm also requires setting up, which reduces it’s utility significantly – running in a straight line, it takes so long to cast/use wurm, that it’s barely any faster then just running with swiftness (OOC).
Spec walk is good for juking/general swiftness, and some other niche uses, but it’s not a proper movement skill either, since it only takes you back to where you’ve already been.
Spec grasp and GS 5 are both pulls – which can be evaded, blinded, dodged etc.
GS 5 and RS 2 are also both rather short range – to catch someone who is say 900-1200 away, you have to use RS 2 and then GS 5, hoping that they don’t run away while you’re doing it (they have almost 2s to get further than 1200 away fromyour original location), or simply evade/blink/block. Then you’re left with a 25s CD, and 6-9s before you can go back into RS to try charge again.
Honestly when I look at it, RS2 and GS 5 both have poison, but they would be far more effective if they had chill instead (or in addition). When you close the gap to someone, you want to keep them there. It’s not great if they can just run away before you can chill then with your slow auto chain etc.
Yeah, on a class that lacks mobility, the ranged power of life blast is pretty important.
Fighting on a point itself, in pvp being melee isn’t an issue, but when people are kiting around at range, you’ll be missing your ranged options a lot.
He explicitly said it works with it, but because charge hits all enemies along it’s path, it potentially means PoC is really strong with Charge.
A terror mancer can run reaper just fine – literally the exact same setup as now, only instead of death magic, reaper.
You lose out on greater marks/fear on CC, but soul marks and staff master or whatever got merged in soul reaping, so it’s a fair trade.
Then in reaping you take all 3 chilling traits.
So yeah, condi necro isn’t seriously effected, but a power necro running GS will have the same mobility issues they have currently, only they no longer have a ranged DS.
Over all sounds great, but with the way traits are changing, having to choose between banshee and PoC, is pretty awful, since they’re both rather useful, and on power or condi builds.
And I’m saying it’s not OP, because it relies on having 5 people chilled and hitting as many chilled things as physically possible.
While this makes it very strong against anyone running spirits/minions/turrets/etc, in an actual team fight, where there is 3-4 enemy players that sustain will not let you survive focus fire any better then having loads of health/LF in the first place. That’s what actualy damage mitigation is for.
You mean like Shoutbow Warriors?
What does shoutbow have to do with it?
And I’m saying it’s not OP, because it relies on having 5 people chilled and hitting as many chilled things as physically possible.
While this makes it very strong against anyone running spirits/minions/turrets/etc, in an actual team fight, where there is 3-4 enemy players that sustain will not let you survive focus fire any better then having loads of health/LF in the first place. That’s what actualy damage mitigation is for.
(edited by War Mourner.5168)
People are used to dealing with awful balance, and and terrible ‘solutions’ to non issues.
They’ve come to expect it.
I meant if RS 2 have projectile reflect, not auto.
That would give you like, 1s of reflect per 6-7s at best, but it would mean you could counter stuff like rapid fire while closing range.
Withdraw cleanses cripple, chill and immobilise – it has a base CD of 15s, which after the skill changes will be reducible via traits. It also sends you back about 500. If the thief then chooses to disengage, it’s one shadowstep with the SB and they’re completely out of a reaper’s range.
Blackpowder is spammable, while our blind field isn’t. Our GS and RS attacks are extremely vulnerable to blinds because of the slowness.
In a straight up fight the Reaper has the advantage, but any thief with half a brain will not die to a reaper, since it can diengage at literally any moment, without blowing any long CD’s.
And if the thief is unable to kill you in melee, he can jsut sit at range and spam SB. That of course won’t exactly burst you down quickly, but there’s effectively nothing you can really do to counter him.
The concept of having lots of chill while lacking mobility is utterly flawed while other classes have movement abilities that are completely uneffected by movement impairing conditions – aka: every blink in the game.
Crate is 1s cast, has 1200 range, gives you like 6k heal via bandages, and a bunch of turrets, that among other things, proc accel packed turrets.
This is still all “Ideal circumstance” Theorycrafting, which while I’m sure Anet will end up balancing around anyway, isn’t what will be realistically happening in PvP.
I keep pulling up the exact same example:
The reaper has all this chill and all this sustain (against packed groups), but what is he going to do against the ranger who is blapping him at 1500 away?
Or even in typical team fight, 3v3, mybe with some turrets/pets/clones around, sure you might be making 15% LF per auto chain, but 3 people will focus fire you down a hell of a lot faster then your team mates who have true damage mitigation through invulns/evades/etc.
So for instance. If you were to take that example into a 5m dungeon coupling it with Plague Signet . This literally means that every 10s you’ll receive a potential x15 (1 condition from every party member every 3s – 5 potential condition every 3s) conditions from your party with it totaling 150% OF YOUR LIFE FORCE alone IF you were in KS without the Unholy Martyr passive procs-with it this means you’ll total a MASSIVE 180% gain in Life Force. In my opinion, with the newly reworked Blood Magic offer vampiric aura (We don’t know how it’ll work yet exactly) with the ability to take x6 condtions every 3s while in KS (Knight Shroud) with the new Unholy Martyr trait will mean you literally might be able to out “heal” the damage the conditions might be doing to you from PvE,Fractal instances. While all along applying tons of vuln and crowd control for your party to actually DPS while doing tons of damage yourself. Is this not supportive enough for ANY PvE content. It literally matches the extreme condition cleanse of Mesmers traited Mantra of Recovery. Btw all of this could be done in DPS armor, if you were to place this Reaper in ANY sort of tank PVT armor. He’d literally be able to tank most if not all boss fights in the game without dodging in PvE/Fractals instances I suspect.
What are you even talking about? Signets don’t work in DS, and plague signet only pulls one condition per 3s, unless it has changed recently.
The buff to unholy martyr is quite significant though.
Historically Necromancers have had to buy the Devs cakes to get them to notice us. :P
More seriously why aren’t our shouts instant… like every existing shout in the game. One of the massive advantages (instant/uninterruptable and can be used without interrupting other skills) of that skill type is denied to our class. (Only argument I can see is the mediocre damage – which I’d trade for actual support… or blast finishers which necros can’t have.)
The main reason I see for the cast times on shouts right now, is two things.
1: They’re afraid that we will make a massive burst build by running into a group of people and face rolling the keyboard to proc all our shouts at once. However the damage is so low (other then the elite) this would be pretty bad anyway.
2: They are afraid we will have massive burst healing via Chilling Nova (or Augory for faster CDs), Chilling Force and Blighters Boon. You would chill some plebs, Chilling nova would Chill more plebs, and hitting said chilled plebs will give you potentially 10% LF per shout (30% for the heal) and 5 stacks of might. So By face rolling all 5 shouts with no cast time, you would get:
YSIM: 4k heal, 30% LF, 5 Might
YAAW: 20% LF (assuming each seperate target will proc Blighters), 25 might
Suffer: 10% LF, 5 Might
NCSU: 10% LF, 5 Might
CTTB: 20% LF (assuming each seperate target will proc Blighters), 5 Might
That’s 90% LF (99% if you are have gluttony) in an instant.
Also if you have Reaper’s Might, and your foes are chilled, then your RS auto will cause 4 stacks of might per attack, for a net gain per auto chain of:
12 stacks of might
15% LF
1596 health
All that said, I’m not saying this is easily pulled off, or even realistically will happen in PvP (or for that matter, even a good idea), but you can bet your kitten on it that Anet will be balancing around the possibility.
(edited by War Mourner.5168)
15s CD on withdraw, instantly cleanses all that chill.
The they just shadow step off and 5 seconds later are at another point.
Or they just blind chain you since all the attacks are slow as hell.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Arrow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Withdraw
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roll_for_Initiative
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder
Good luck trying to put down a competent thief without any proper ranged abilities or good mobility.
You say this, but in all honesty – how many times does for instance a Warbanner get succesfully interrupted? Even in Solo-play, not even a third of the community has a clue how to deal with it – added with either the CC from Fear Me, or just a regular Stability, suddenly the person you spent so much time on getting downed is up and running
I get you, the cast time is long for it’s effect, and I would not say no to a decrease of it – but the effect is literally huge…
Mechanically, if you are somewhat capable of using the thinkerbox, shutting down a Lich is easy as cake… The play for it is so straightforward, it creates no oppertunity like Chilled to the Bone does. Will you be able to cast it if you randomly start charging it within a teamfight? Probably not, Warbanners get interrupted the same way – but with some minor coordination (stability is somewhat more accesible now), you can easily pull of something this hugeSometimes you need to look at it from the perspective of Teamplay – and I tell you, this elite screams “Teamplay” way more than any other elite that the Necromancer profession currently has… Lich has to be played around with, Plague is potent, but makes you very much a sitting duck aside from plague ressing – and this one is an opener, an oppertunity for the whole team to strike down, which leads to interesting play rather than “Heal the Lich while he spams 1”
Again, Cooldown Reduction? Fine by me, but the elite, in my very humble opinion, is really interesting, and really underappreciated
The difference is banner’s effect is allies.
With the shout, after effectively stunning yourself for 2s, even if you’ve got stability (which is enough 90% of the time for a warrior to use banner), a single blind will cause the skill to miss. A stack of aegis, say from courage’s active, an evade or a dodge – all these things render the skill completely useless.
With the warbanner, they only thing stopping that from working is CC, which stability cover, or killing the guy in like 2 seconds.
Literally every thief in pvp, when they see a necro using the shout will just (assuming the necro has stab) simply use blackpowder.
Hell, they don’t even have to drop the field on us, just the actual projectile is enough to make the skill fail, since the only way we have to cleanse a blind that wouldn’t interrupt the cast, is that minion trait.
The recharge half of this trait is trash.
In PvP on death effects are worthless, but even in PvE and (maybe) WvW, it’s still just really bad.
I mean, look at it, the base CD is only 6s.
So even in the ideal situation, you’re saving 5s at best, when the real limiting factor of the skill is how often/long you are in RS for.
If the trait buffed the skill in some other way (projectile reflect/absorb would make closing with long range classes like ranger less suicidal) it would be a lot better.
The problem with the elite is that the cast time is rediculous.
I mean seriously, look at moa morph. It’s an elite skill that leaves one person pretty helpless for however long it last.
It has a 1sec cast time that is very distinctive. It gets avoid a lot.
Ours is double the cast time, we literally shout loudly to let every know it’s happening.
Even if we don’t get CC’d or blinded, or the enemy uses an evade or block, it’s a cakewalk to dodge a skill with such a long wind up.
I say “why wouldnt I use lich?” Because Lich is extremely straight forward.
For the next 20s, you press 1, can kill everything that moves, unless you get moa’d or they have projectile reflect.
If you don’t have one of the above 2 things, you cant avoid the damage of lich (other then running away).
The shout elite is a single AOE that is extremely manageable. I’d honestly put it on par with people’s opinion of 100 blades pre-release.
Essentially Anet is afraid of a necro that *gasp has sustain.
going into reaper, soul reaping and death/blood magic, and abusing as much AOE as possible, get to as much chill as possible, to proc chilling force and blighters boon for loads of healing/LF generation.
And they’re right, it will be a lot of healing – if there’s lots of guys in melee range of you, instead of 1 ranger at 1500 range 211211’ing you to death.
Assuming it follows the path of well of power and other like it, the stun break will be instant, and there will be 1s or something of stab to cover the cast time.
Why they wouldn’t atleast make that particular shout instant cast, is beyond me.
When I watched the stream it seemed to be missing the beginning part.
Does the recharge bonus on gravedigger mean it recharges 100% faster (ie: 4s CD) or recharge 100% (ie: use it immediately after).
elite’s cast time of 2s effectively means it stuns you just as long as any enemies – and they can avoid it/stun break anyway.
Why would I use the shout over lich in a power build?
It wasn’t even about interrupt mesmer in particular, it’s just that we can’t really do anything about blinks – it doesn’t matter how much chill we have when it doesn’t effect teleports at all.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat
Reaper can’t do squat once they’re out of range.
If it hits 5 people that means up to 5 (or more) people hitting you.
Consume conditions is still objectively the better heal. And after the trait changes, if weakening shroud stays nerfed, builds in the curse line will go for master of corruption to reduce consume conditions’s CD (in the extremely high chance that it becomes a corruption)
Saying curses doesn’t need to be usable by non coni builds ‘because we already have 3 trait lines’ is pretty bad. We’re not asking for some powerful direct damage buff, just something to make it usable in a power build.
The big weakness of the reaper is that it can’t do anthing against ranged foes. Rangers will be able to mince you before you get anywhere near them. Projectile reflect on RS 2 would help here a lot.
Also chilling foes to keep them from running is useless when plenty of classes can blink/tele/shadowstep 900+ units away, out of range of all of your skills, except spec grasp which is very dodgable.
Edit: The start of the stream recording was missing for me, with gravedigger, does the recharge bonus mean it recharges 100% faster, or recharges 100%?