Guild Wars 2

Scourge:

I don’t think there is too much doubt that Scourge is overpowered in PvP and WvW. However I am a bit afraid that nerfs will severely affect PvE raid performance as that is currently necromancer’s greatest weakness. The core design of Scourge will make it a staple of WvW just because of the large AoE radius, but nerfing it will probably neuter PvE raiding Scourge.

I think the most problematic with Scourge is F2, the cd is simply too short. It is on a 4 sec cd if you trait it, remove 2 boons and remove 2 condis.

Punishment skills looks very poor in PvE because the current amount of boon spam in raid is just not there. I would suggest increase the base condi but decrease boon corruption condi conversion.

Dhuumfire interaction is also one of the biggest reason for Scourge’s strength, ideally I would place a small ICD there in PvP only. Removing the F5 pulse has been suggested but that will completely remove scourge’s potential in Raid.

Lack of main hand condi swap and LF gen can be felt even during golem testing, ideally some of the punishment or even torch skills can generate even a bit LF to sustain the damage just for raids.

tl;dr, Scourge is too strong in PvP and WvW, but careful nerfing it so it does not destroy PvE viability. Buff punishment skills to give base condi, nerf boon corruption skills by cd. Torch and punishment skills generating some LF would be nice. Lack another mainhand condi weapon other than Scepter in PvE.

PS: Demonic lore is bugged I think, the icd does not apply for downstate. That might be a big reason why the damage is so high in wvw. Worth checking out.

Torch 5 is also very bugged, I stand literally next to the golem and half times I get might stacks, other half I don’t.

insaneseagull.7063:

Warscythes.9307:

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.

It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.

Dhuumfire doesn’t even trigger on F5. It triggers on each F1 you cast.

Holy kitten guys. Read up xD

Mate I just spent like the last 3 post proving it does with a screenshot. It applies dhuumfire on each pulse, the other guy was getting confused because his burn duration is too low so he is not seeing 7 stacks.

Read my edit,mate.

and if you open my screenshot, you will notice I have sand savant.

Your source of burning has to have come from another source. I just unequipped Dhuumfire and Demonic Lore and popped F5 on a golem.

No burning.

That’s because you unequipped dhuumfire, are you sure we are talking about the same thing here. I am proving that dhuumfire works on each shade hit, it apply 7 burn stacks on shroud 5 because it hits 7 times, thus proccing dhuumfire 7 times.

Yeah I think we might not be talking about the same thing. But I see now that after having only Dhuumfire equipped F5 does indeed inflict burning.

But only 1 proc for me. It just feels like a burning proc on F5 is a bug since the tooltip on Dhuumfire clearly says only “shroud skill 1”.

Right? :O

Never trust tooltips, they are seldom always right.

What happens is that shade hit is treated as F1, that is why it proc dhuumfire which does work as intended. Removing it will probably absolutely gut our dps in PvE though so hopefully it won’t happen.

Yes but I’m not talking about the F1 skill xD I know that works as intended. Here’s the thing,if you equip Dhuumfire,place no shades on the ground but only pop F5,you’ll get one burning proc. That’s even without Demonic Lore. There shouldn’t be a burning proc on F5.

I know, but that is because you are not F1. The shade is the F1 in this case, so when the F1 hits, it apply dhuumfire because the shade itself is F1.

You are still you.

Yes,I know that. What I’m saying is that a burning proc on F5 is a BUG.

and I just explained why I think is not

No you didn’t. You just wrote that a sand shade (F1) will apply burning. It’s working as intended. However,the F5 ability is NOT a F1 ability,hence the burning should not be procced when pressing F5,yet,it does.

If you go to core necro or reaper,and equip Dhuumfire,will you proc burning with Tainted Shackles or Executioner’s Scythe? No,it won’t. As it never has. Dhuumfire has always only worked on the F1 shroud abilities. Never F5.

So if you get a burning proc from Scourge’ F5,Desert Shroud because of Dhuumfire,then it is a bug.

I have not seen any patch notes addressing the fact that Dhuumfire now works on F5 abilities as well.

That’s because the shade itself IS F1. That it is why when it hits, it apply dhuumfire. Reaper 5 or Core shroud 5 does not apply dhuumfire because they are F5. When the shade hit 7 times, it is basically when F1 hit 7 times, that’s it.

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.

It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.

Dhuumfire doesn’t even trigger on F5. It triggers on each F1 you cast.

Holy kitten guys. Read up xD

Mate I just spent like the last 3 post proving it does with a screenshot. It applies dhuumfire on each pulse, the other guy was getting confused because his burn duration is too low so he is not seeing 7 stacks.

Read my edit,mate.

and if you open my screenshot, you will notice I have sand savant.

Your source of burning has to have come from another source. I just unequipped Dhuumfire and Demonic Lore and popped F5 on a golem.

No burning.

That’s because you unequipped dhuumfire, are you sure we are talking about the same thing here. I am proving that dhuumfire works on each shade hit, it apply 7 burn stacks on shroud 5 because it hits 7 times, thus proccing dhuumfire 7 times.

Yeah I think we might not be talking about the same thing. But I see now that after having only Dhuumfire equipped F5 does indeed inflict burning.

But only 1 proc for me. It just feels like a burning proc on F5 is a bug since the tooltip on Dhuumfire clearly says only “shroud skill 1”.

Right? :O

Never trust tooltips, they are seldom always right.

What happens is that shade hit is treated as F1, that is why it proc dhuumfire which does work as intended. Removing it will probably absolutely gut our dps in PvE though so hopefully it won’t happen.

Yes but I’m not talking about the F1 skill xD I know that works as intended. Here’s the thing,if you equip Dhuumfire,place no shades on the ground but only pop F5,you’ll get one burning proc. That’s even without Demonic Lore. There shouldn’t be a burning proc on F5.

I know, but that is because you are not F1. The shade is the F1 in this case, so when the F1 hits, it apply dhuumfire because the shade itself is F1.

You are still you.

Yes,I know that. What I’m saying is that a burning proc on F5 is a BUG.

and I just explained why I think is not, if anything the bug would be the pulse from you is not procing dhuumfire 7 times instead of the other way around.

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.

It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.

Dhuumfire doesn’t even trigger on F5. It triggers on each F1 you cast.

Holy kitten guys. Read up xD

Mate I just spent like the last 3 post proving it does with a screenshot. It applies dhuumfire on each pulse, the other guy was getting confused because his burn duration is too low so he is not seeing 7 stacks.

Read my edit,mate.

and if you open my screenshot, you will notice I have sand savant.

Your source of burning has to have come from another source. I just unequipped Dhuumfire and Demonic Lore and popped F5 on a golem.

No burning.

That’s because you unequipped dhuumfire, are you sure we are talking about the same thing here. I am proving that dhuumfire works on each shade hit, it apply 7 burn stacks on shroud 5 because it hits 7 times, thus proccing dhuumfire 7 times.

Yeah I think we might not be talking about the same thing. But I see now that after having only Dhuumfire equipped F5 does indeed inflict burning.

But only 1 proc for me. It just feels like a burning proc on F5 is a bug since the tooltip on Dhuumfire clearly says only “shroud skill 1”.

Right? :O

Never trust tooltips, they are seldom always right.

What happens is that shade hit is treated as F1, that is why it proc dhuumfire which does work as intended. Removing it will probably absolutely gut our dps in PvE though so hopefully it won’t happen.

Yes but I’m not talking about the F1 skill xD I know that works as intended. Here’s the thing,if you equip Dhuumfire,place no shades on the ground but only pop F5,you’ll get one burning proc. That’s even without Demonic Lore. There shouldn’t be a burning proc on F5.

I know, but that is because you are not F1. The shade is the F1 in this case, so when the F1 hits, it apply dhuumfire because the shade itself is F1.

You are still you.

insaneseagull.7063:

Warscythes.9307:

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.

It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.

Dhuumfire doesn’t even trigger on F5. It triggers on each F1 you cast.

Holy kitten guys. Read up xD

Mate I just spent like the last 3 post proving it does with a screenshot. It applies dhuumfire on each pulse, the other guy was getting confused because his burn duration is too low so he is not seeing 7 stacks.

Read my edit,mate.

and if you open my screenshot, you will notice I have sand savant.

Your source of burning has to have come from another source. I just unequipped Dhuumfire and Demonic Lore and popped F5 on a golem.

No burning.

That’s because you unequipped dhuumfire, are you sure we are talking about the same thing here. I am proving that dhuumfire works on each shade hit, it apply 7 burn stacks on shroud 5 because it hits 7 times, thus proccing dhuumfire 7 times.

Yeah I think we might not be talking about the same thing. But I see now that after having only Dhuumfire equipped F5 does indeed inflict burning.

But only 1 proc for me. It just feels like a burning proc on F5 is a bug since the tooltip on Dhuumfire clearly says only “shroud skill 1”.

Right? :O

Never trust tooltips, they are seldom always right.

What happens is that shade hit is treated as F1, that is why it proc dhuumfire which does work as intended. Removing it will probably absolutely gut our dps in PvE though so hopefully it won’t happen.

insaneseagull.7063:

Warscythes.9307:

insaneseagull.7063:

Warscythes.9307:

insaneseagull.7063:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.

It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.

Dhuumfire doesn’t even trigger on F5. It triggers on each F1 you cast.

Holy kitten guys. Read up xD

Mate I just spent like the last 3 post proving it does with a screenshot. It applies dhuumfire on each pulse, the other guy was getting confused because his burn duration is too low so he is not seeing 7 stacks.

Read my edit,mate.

and if you open my screenshot, you will notice I have sand savant.

Your source of burning has to have come from another source. I just unequipped Dhuumfire and Demonic Lore and popped F5 on a golem.

No burning.

That’s because you unequipped dhuumfire, are you sure we are talking about the same thing here. I am proving that dhuumfire works on each shade hit, it apply 7 burn stacks on shroud 5 because it hits 7 times, thus proccing dhuumfire 7 times.

insaneseagull.7063:

Warscythes.9307:

insaneseagull.7063:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.

It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.

Dhuumfire doesn’t even trigger on F5. It triggers on each F1 you cast.

Holy kitten guys. Read up xD

Mate I just spent like the last 3 post proving it does with a screenshot. It applies dhuumfire on each pulse, the other guy was getting confused because his burn duration is too low so he is not seeing 7 stacks.

Read my edit,mate.

and if you open my screenshot, you will notice I have sand savant.

insaneseagull.7063:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.

It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.

Dhuumfire doesn’t even trigger on F5. It triggers on each F1 you cast.

Holy kitten guys. Read up xD

Mate I just spent like the last 3 post proving it does with a screenshot. It applies dhuumfire on each pulse, the other guy was getting confused because his burn duration is too low so he is not seeing 7 stacks.

I don’t know what to tell you mate. Try it again with burn duration, take viper amulet, one of those condi duration rune or just burn duration runes, sand savant. Drop a shade, wait for the first burn tick to fall off, and then hit F5. You should see at least 7 burn stacks.

Unless you are lagging horribly and missing burn stacks perhaps. I don’t know what more to do here to convince you.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No, it’s not a matter of the stacks falling off. If that were the case, the duration on the icon would be resetting on each pulse. It isn’t, though, and the golem stops burning entirely before the last pulse.

But the duration on the icon does reset.

I just logged back in again and got 97% burn duration to test, I hit 8 stacks just from hitting F5, this is letting the initial burn stack from F1 falling off, only managed to capture 7 stacks because I was a bit slow.

As you can see I pressed literally just F5 and there are no people around me, so it should be fairly concrete.

EDIT: Made a small error, runes procced fire aura which explained 8 stacks when it should have at most 7. I swapped to tempest runes and still managed 6 stacks at highest just by hitting F5.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Warscythes.9307:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.

It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.

Go into PvP and test it, I literally just got to the golem, dropped down a shade and hit F5. 7 burn stack over its duration. Is working exactly like that.

I have. I dropped a shade, hit F5 and…saw 3 stacks including 2 Demonic Lore procs.

It literally only procs on the initial strike. It does not pulse.

EDIT: After taking off Demonic Lore, it turns out Dhuumfire does pulse, BUT NOT ON EVERY PULSE. It procs on the first three, and not on the rest.

That’s because the duration from the stack at initial hit fell off. Is why I said 7 burn stacks over the duration, not you maintain 7 stacks because it hits over 6 seconds. I have 5 at max with 30% condi duration.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Dhuumfire does not give a burn for every pulse of Desert Shroud. Please stop spreading this misinformation.

It only gives one burn stack at the initial cast.

Go into PvP and test it, I literally just got to the golem, dropped down a shade and hit F5. 7 burn stack over its duration. Is working exactly like that.

For a long range AoE instant fear? Sure, especially because you can double cast it with your other skills.

Every single shade skill goes off on you as well, you are basically a shade. So if you garish pillar even with no shade up, you will fear. Don’t need to worry about placement that much if you are in melee.

They do work, go in the game and actually test it out.

Windler.4815:

If you think Scourge has any shot of being in a pve instance outside it’s current (reaper) role… go play another demo spec. You’ll see how much of a same ole dumpster fire this is.

Take dhuumfire and try it, that’s your main dps. Torment is only part it, if you are not doing damage then you are not doing it right.

Don’t take wells, take transfusion. It hit 9 times on a 12 sec cd with SR.

Dhuumfire for SR as well, foot in the grave is useless. Dhuumfire is a huge part of your damage as scourge even if you play support.

Scourge first major should be 2 really unless there are a lot of boons.

This is from a PvE perspective of course, although it really shouldn’t change that much for PvP.

Quarktastic.1027:

Warscythes.9307:

Curse/SR/Scourge, dhuumfire is the key here, that trait proc every time you shade hits. This means your F5 applies 7 stacks of burning over its duration, and every time you press F2 etc, it apply one stack of burning. rest is self explanatory.

Scepter/Torch + Scepter/Dagger most likely, BIP is probably core, last two slot depends. CPC if you need projectile protection, epi if you need aoe, desiccate if you need LF etc etc.

I haven’t figured out a right rotation yet, but you basically hit all your shade skills as soon as they come on cd, prioritizin F5 over everything else since it pulses 7 times. if you run out of LF, use desiccate. Because your shades act independently from you, you can actually double cast with scepter and shade at the same time.

Seems pretty dull.

Then again, I find all condi builds to be pretty dull. I kind of miss my trap throwing ranger though…maybe I should play a grenade engi.

You actually have to hit a lot of buttons really fast because most of the shades skills are very short cd. As I said I did not figure out a correct rotation yet so I am just mashing for now, but once is figured out then there will be a lot of presses to do.

Curse/SR/Scourge, dhuumfire is the key here, that trait proc every time you shade hits. This means your F5 applies 7 stacks of burning over its duration, and every time you press F2 etc, it apply one stack of burning. rest is self explanatory.

Scepter/Torch + Scepter/Dagger most likely, BIP is probably core, last two slot depends. CPC if you need projectile protection, epi if you need aoe, desiccate if you need LF etc etc.

I haven’t figured out a right rotation yet, but you basically hit all your shade skills as soon as they come on cd, prioritizin F5 over everything else since it pulses 7 times. if you run out of LF, use desiccate. Because your shades act independently from you, you can actually double cast with scepter and shade at the same time.

12 seconds if you take vital persistence, which you probably should since Scourge need LF to function and dhuumfire is pretty much core.

Do you guys not take dhuumfire? That trait proc on shade hit, desert shroud 5 actually proc 7 times if you use it.

If demonic lore has 0 ICD then it will be insanely overpowered.

Overall I am fairly pleased, I managed to maintain 25 might stack pretty easily in PvP and 0 Alacrity so you can be a might bot if you want. DPS is most definitely better than reaper just because you don’t have to deal with ice fields anymore.

Support scourge waits to be seen, transfusion is definitely much better than I thought though because it tick 9 times with a 12 second cd. That’s pretty kitten good, in addition to barrier I am curious to see if you can solo heal and squeeze in another dps for raids.

Of course is a good idea, is pretty much the only reason I still keep an eye on the game. I am more surprised this point is still being talked about ha.

This is a debate that has been gone over and over and over and over again throughout multiple MMOs.

I think down the line it probably will happen, just like WoW and FFXIV etc etc. But I highly doubt it will happen soon since raid just came out.

The issue that comes with this are that the normal mode spoils the hard mode’s experience. FFXIV’s latest raid for example has a story mode and a hard mode. Once people did story mode, hard mode is just meh since yes there are more mechanics but the gist is there already.

Second thing from what I recall is that the casuals are never really satisfied, people have argued mechanics are new things and having unique and harder mechanics in hard mode raid is unfair blah blah blah and there are a lot of whining.

Actually speaking of whining I think I just realized why I was a bit irritated when I looked at your post. It is day 2, TWO since the raid came out and you already think you will never be able to beat it.

I mean come on, that’s just lame.

I agree is wonky but is not really a big deal.

Threat going down with more toughness doesn’t make sense, if you are trying to be tanky then you want to get hit so your allies are not hit.

You should have ascended accessories and weapon, armor doesn’t really matter.

Vale guardian is doable in exotics, Gorsveal’s requirement is much higher.

Pretty sure is based on toughness and not armor.

Flumek.9043:

Shouldnt heal be signet since its a 12k heal for others?

It would be better dps than blood fiend if you use it on CD. But blood fiend is fire and forget, you use it and it acts like a healing signet that does damage. Is also a bit difficult to fit in the dps rotation while moving around and trying not to cancel other casts by accident.

I suppose I might use it in the future once I get the whole thing down, but fiend is just easier to use at this point.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Warscythes.9307:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Edit: as another side note. Fear currently does NOT work on the break bars of the raid bosses. You need to frequently and quickly CC the bosses and necro/reaper is completely useless at this without fear working.

I don’t think that’s true but I can’t remember since is hard to tell when 10 people are trying to CC break at the exact same time. I did fine during the split phrase though which is the only time I can tell.

As Reaper, you have golem/shroud 5/warhorn 4/GS 5, even if fear is not working you are definitely not useless in ccing without it. Most of the time I can get maybe 2 skills off before the cc bar breaks.

It was more of an issue with the smaller ones where there was only 2-3 people per boss so you need to CC fast and hard.

Was golem useful for the raid? did the seekers kill it? I was using CttB, but golem may be better if it can stay alive.

Golem is better in pretty every way compared to chilled to the bone when you are trying to breakbar. Golem charge + warhorn daze take off 75-85% of the bar alone in the split phrase. I was doing green and we were 2 reapers and a dh. The green one dies instantly when we both golem charge and one of us GS5. The 95% reduction means it never dies. Hell I was running blood fiend too just because it gives a tiny bit of extra dps and it died maybe once in the entire fight,

Classes honestly does not matter as much as player skill.

Our group when we beat it had

1 Cleric/Nomad Guardian Tank
2 Burnzerkers
1 Cleric Druid
2 Zerker reapers
1 Chronomancer
2 Revs, 1 zerker and 1 condi/Ventari
1 Dragon Hunter dps
we basically brought our main character and equipped whichever gear is necessary.

Our dps is definitely a bit lower than optimal groups since we killed it about 10-15 seconds into the enrage timer but the upside is that we have a lot more leeway if we screw up the lighting since we had a lot more heals and everybody is fairly durable with few exceptions. There was no wipe in p1 or p2 because one person got ported and everybody goes down from lighting strike. I don’t doubt condi engineers do more condi damage than condi reapers, they are not on top of the condi class for no reason. but is never as much as a big deal as you might think.

For example Rev is suppose to be the top power dps but I am pretty sure I outdps our power rev because he has to take staff for cc break and sword for dps which means he has 0 range dps. I however can take axe for range dps and sacrifice basically nothing for it. Practical plays is a lot different from theoretical dps.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Edit: as another side note. Fear currently does NOT work on the break bars of the raid bosses. You need to frequently and quickly CC the bosses and necro/reaper is completely useless at this without fear working.

I don’t think that’s true but I can’t remember since is hard to tell when 10 people are trying to CC break at the exact same time. I did fine during the split phrase though which is the only time I can tell.

As Reaper, you have golem/shroud 5/warhorn 4/GS 5, even if fear is not working you are definitely not useless in ccing without it. Most of the time I can get maybe 2 skills off before the cc bar breaks.

Reporting a bit on boss 2.

Boss has a phrase where he will spawn 4 adds and slowly walk toward it. If any of the adds touch the boss then the raid wipes. The adds are ONLY affected by chill, cripple, immobilize. Reaper is actually pretty good for this one since we puke out cripple and chill with some immobilize

Just beat it with guild, had 2 Reapers in the party. He was running SR with dhuum and I was blood with wells.

We were both doing the lightning field, the main reason being that since you have to stand still, the class has to be able to facetank damage. Our Chrono kept dying so I swapped in and did lighting duty. With death’s charge and signet of locust, mobility wasn’t that big of an issue.

I spend a surprising amount of time with axe because I was on lighting duty, but damage wasn’t that bad since I can Reaper shroud in and melee if weapon swap is on cd. Honestly not that much to say since a lot of it comes down to player skill and able to do the mechanics instead of professions. I mostly had to remember how to keep the dps rotation down while making sure I am not stuck in axe when I can melee.

Our guild has something like 4 raid groups ready I think, I think there are like 7 reapers so we have to split them apart. Team composition obviously matters to us but ultimately based on experience on past vale guardian attempts, any class can do it as long as you meet the tank and condi requirement. Rest comes down to skill.

Warrior’s fear me is on a 60 second cd and only fears, the duration is up to 3 seconds but that is within 0-200 which is practically melee range. NCSY is on a 25 second cd and stripe boons with 600 range.

Granted fear me is underpowered, but having fear on it is incredibly strong no matter how you look at it. I would rather it buff up on the defense debuff to be honest to keep up the theme. For example target suffers from an unique debuff that increases damage dealt by 15% or something for 4 seconds + duration for boon striped.

My god, I haven’t seen something like this in a while.

@No Man, word of advice when trying to present something on the internet. I don’t know if you just learned these terms or what, but never use them on the internet. It makes you sound like a total neckbeard EVEN IF you are using them correctly, which you are not. Is like trying to use vocabulary in every sentence you write just because you can. Please stop it, is actually pretty obnoxious.

As for the topic, I think we got pretty off the tracks here lol. I am out.

PS: To the "“Do everyone a favor and either learn the game " that is ad hominem. =/"

Not really, it would be if he used it as the basis for his argument, for example if he said your argument is bad because you are bad, then it would be ad hominem, which again he did not. He refuted you before he gave that statement.

That is just an insult mate, that’s it. Stop trying to use these words if you are not sure, in fact don’t use them at all.

You know mate, I don’t usually like to get into arguments but please stop using words like ad hominem and straw-man.

ad hominem is a logical fallacy where the person arguing attacks the person directly which he never did. He refuted your reasoning and did not mention anything personal about you.

straw man on the other hand is a fallacy where the person misrepresents a person’s position in order to make an easier argument which if you look back at Sigmond’s post, he never really did. You made the point that reapers cause chills and poison passively in your original post. He pointed out that is not exactly the case and gave several examples of common ways for Reaper to apply chill. This is not a straw man fallacy.

Please stop using these words just because you can, it’s not helping your case.

Wait, what are we complaining about here? The OP literally just posted something akin to Reaper OP pls delete without any reasons whatsoever. I am not even sure if this is a complain on power/condi or just reaper as a whole? Why are we entertaining threads like this anyway? This kind of thing is pretty much a hair above being spam.

You played literally one match with a new build mate.

I can hazard a guess that you staffed a few marks then charged in with reaper shroud and dies immediately.

Despite the fact reaper shroud is melee, condi reaper is ranged. What you do in a team fight is basically use staff 3-2, 5 if you must, save 4 for condi transfer from the back. Then walk in midrange and scepter 2, 3 and start autoing. If one person charge at you, reaper shroud, 3, executioner scythe if you think you can hit, otherwise just 4 then start autoing with scythe. Fear if you need a cc, remember it proc chill as well for damage. Disengage with RS 2 and flesh wurm if needed, if people chase you then just kite with chill, make sure to draw marks while running. You should only charge in with reaper shroud if you need to make a stomp or they are clamped and you can spin on them or if you have high amount of life force. If necessary let them decap and keep ranging, you need to whittle people before you can charge in.

Corrupt boon if needed especially if you see things like engineers running around with 15 might.

Vydahr.4285:

Biggest problem in PvP for Necros/Reapers: 0% starting life force

Ehh I wouldn’t really mind starting with 25% life force or something similar but I think most of us got used to it at this point that it is a minor issue compared to everything else.

Who doesn’t start the match and start finding boxes to hit anyway these days.

I don’t think death shroud being worse at mobility and tankiness(dark path+lack of stability) compared to reaper shroud is an issue because it is ranged. Reaper shroud should be better at being focused/cc’d and more mobile.

I think core necro has a few issues but the main one right now is that as nearlight said, death shroud is pretty useless for condi builds. I would like some bleed/poison/torment whatever condi on shroud 4 and a faster projectile speed on shroud 2. Maybe lower the cast speed but also lower the damage of life blast to keep consistent dps but dhuumfire can be used a bit more effectively. Keep in mind though that life blast actually does more dps than Reaper scythe right now if you are within 600 range so I am not sure on it.

That’s about it. Rest of the traits like issues with dhuumfire is fine I believe, others such as foot in the grave is just weak in general with or without the reaper comparison. That should be another topic completely as we need to look at the class as a whole.

Morwath.9817:

Javonovich.5280:

Warscythes.9307:

Condi Reaper is one of the top builds right now, don’t know exactly what you are doing, especially after they buffed deathly chill we are a really strong condi class in PvP.

Also take flesh wurm if you want disengage.

What’s the typical condi build now with reaper?

Spite, Soul Reaping, Reaper
Signets, Flesh Wurm, Chilled to the Bone
Carrion, Nightmare, Scepter/Dagger, Staff

Pretty much, although I use warhorn with scepter and occasionally use artiscracy or grenth runes.

You are pretty squishy, well for a necro so just range from the outside and run away with RS2. But if they let you do your thing then you can screw over people major time with chills everywhere.

Condi Reaper is one of the top builds right now, don’t know exactly what you are doing, especially after they buffed deathly chill we are a really strong condi class in PvP.

Also take flesh wurm if you want disengage.

Swap out staff for axe/warhorn or dagger/warhorn, staff is quite useless in 99% of the cases.

Blood fiend or Vampirism is actually the better heal, YSIM can be used situationally but the idea is that you want to maximize damage and blood fiend is like a heal signet that does a pitiful amount of damage.

Take the two wells in 90% of the cases, the one that deal damage and apply vulnerably, second one should either be the boon corrupt or blind depends on situation. Third slit can be CPC, wurm, locust depends on the situation. One stun breaker is good depends on situation, YAAW is ok. Rise the general fit if you are unsure. Flesh golem is the go to elite these days unless you NEED burst in which case go with lich form.

Spiteful talisman > Bitter chill, take rending shroud in master tier.

Run chilling nova if you have only 1 shout, 2+ go with augury. Take decimate defense in master tier almost always. BB is meh, take onslaught once you feel ok with the survivability.

Consider dhuumfire in SR if you can max crit without it.

Always take sigil of force on one of your weapon slots. Rune set should be strength/scholar/flamelegion of sort.

Consider blood magic>sr for some minor group healing and transfusion.

deathike.4623:

Haha what a laugh upload a vid of you doing a hp champ on ur own where it takes 2 to 3 ppl to complete.

That’s actually easily doable, build MM and necro can solo the HoT champs easily.

In fact that is probably the reason why OP feels this way.

Look op, necro is one of if not THE most self sustained class in the entire game. We reach probably 90% peak efficiency while soloing and 100% when grouping. Other class reach maybe half of their potential while soloing. This is due to how LF can be considered as a huge life steal in some sort of way in addition to easy self sustained might. Which results in great survivability and damage thanks to those two things.

However the two values are drastically decreased in group play which is where balance should be judged upon. Group often times have enough might that renders self stacking might worthless. Passive defense scales poorly in general compared to active defense such as dodge roll(no vigor access), aegis, protecton, mobility etc etc. We give up many many things for LF and it is great for open world play. But for cases balance actually matters? You will see where it start to fall apart.

As for the popularity for Reaper? Is pretty fun, as in it feels and looks great. For example one of the biggest reason why WoW remained at the top is because their control is really really tight, you press a button and it does it immediately. Reaper has this kind of thing where everything feels nice. Plus is a reaper, the concept itself draws many players.

Works great in PvP, meh in PvE, you should be taking onslaught + dhuumfire if you want condi anyway.

hackks.3687:

Warscythes.9307:

Probably because Reaper lack disengage and active defense in general. They need to be high performing in melee combat because is hard for them to catch people. If they get in a fight then they are in it.

My Reaper is far and away outperforming my Scrapper. Handsdown. Even before this nerf.

Meh, I am pretty sure especially after the blighter’s boon nerf, hell maybe even before it Scrapper is considered to be better than Reaper.

You don’t have shouts in reaper form anyway mate.

That being said, I think leeching bolts and parasitic contagion should proc in shroud at least.

Probably because Reaper lack disengage and active defense in general. They need to be high performing in melee combat because is hard for them to catch people. If they get in a fight then they are in it.

Of course you need to be able to drop a support before everything else, where do you think the phrase focus the healer comes from.

That being said, I can’t really comment too much on the amulet since I never really tried it.

Ragion.2831:

Warscythes.9307:

Ragion.2831:

This is the latest GS build ive been testing in PvP. It definitely has been holding up better than the other 20 odd attempts but it still has the annoying issue of people who make it a point to stay out of the effective range with stealth, ports and what not. Also this 3 year old thing with necros not having access to their Death shroud at the start of the match. Really? in 2015? after all the class upgrades? We really dont need any more vulnerabilities as it is.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnMbCt2glbCebC0biljBTKo1ByAx3wfYRMqnttCAA-TJxFABfXGogDBAAnBADeAAAA

The Rune is Superior Rune of surging (Gain Shock aura after using an elite skill)

@Warscythes you basically said evades arent a counter but they counter everything.

Because it is a general counter, just like the phrase how to deal with something in PvP? Just CC it, well guess what, CC deals with literally everything under the planet. You will always win if the other guy literally cannot control their character. Your argument to thief’s counter to condi is about as ridiculous as saying just be invincible because that’s what evade gives you, invincibility frames. You cannot achieve that.

Look if you say im wrong no problem but please explain why instead of using contradictory statements. Currently on my Daredevil I run a 5 skill category build 3 of them stun breaks. That is important because i also run Improvisation combined with Sleight of hand and swindlers equilibrium and ofcourse the evades from Daredevil. It is extremely rare for me to get pinned down if im paying attention.

If by some miracle an executioners scyth hits. I have 3 options to get out of it. Even if a mesmer shows up with power block, odds are i will get out of it, even if a warrior with Rampage shows up, again odds are i will still be able to retreat and pressure at least one of them, because after all the stun breaks i still have lots of evades and endurance regen to avoid any more CC attempts. Ofcourse this is all theoretical, the point is I have options.

Mate, I think you need to understand what I am trying to say.

Yes evade is a counter, but it is not THE counter. You literally cannot dodge everything, otherwise daredevil is bloody broken. As you can see from the forum right now, I doubt that is the case.

Yes you can dodge somethings, but are you really going to tell me you are going to dodge every auto too? A condi reaper is just going to stand there and draw these huge instant activate marks on the group or hit scepter 1, how do you dodge that? You cannot because you do not have infinite dodges, that is the weakness for thieves and the fact you believe evade is the counter for a long standing weakness for thieves in general is frustrating.

And that’s it, just like thieves have weaknesses, so do Reapers. Yes our range sucks but have staffs, yes thieves are weak against condis but that’s why they are really mobile and can get out of combat and recuperate or just run away if they want to. But ultimately they are not complete coverups to their own weaknesses. Necro staff sucks in damage in general and thieves right now are played mostly as +1 and a lot of it is due to their weaknesses that cannot be completely covered. Do you understand now?

Ragion.2831:

This is the latest GS build ive been testing in PvP. It definitely has been holding up better than the other 20 odd attempts but it still has the annoying issue of people who make it a point to stay out of the effective range with stealth, ports and what not. Also this 3 year old thing with necros not having access to their Death shroud at the start of the match. Really? in 2015? after all the class upgrades? We really dont need any more vulnerabilities as it is.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnMbCt2glbCebC0biljBTKo1ByAx3wfYRMqnttCAA-TJxFABfXGogDBAAnBADeAAAA

The Rune is Superior Rune of surging (Gain Shock aura after using an elite skill)

@Warscythes you basically said evades arent a counter but they counter everything.

Because it is a general counter, just like the phrase how to deal with something in PvP? Just CC it, well guess what, CC deals with literally everything under the planet. You will always win if the other guy literally cannot control their character. Your argument to thief’s counter to condi is about as ridiculous as saying just be invincible because that’s what evade gives you, invincibility frames. You cannot achieve that.