Guild Wars 2

Nobody on the thief forums really complains about rangers. Whenever I check out the ranger forum its always rangers whining about thieves. Thief players are too busy dealing with people trolling our class and hating. Feels good.

Please cry more though, thieves love that.

This is getting good. Popcorn.

Serhend.6382:

Wonderer is right. There is something called diversity in the first place. If there was only 1 class you would cry because there were no other classes. And yet, everyone can still get more than enough swiftness with runes.

Wonderer, you should give centaur runes a try, you will love it.

Might try it. Only really got like 5 more levels for my Mesmer to hit 80, but might take awhile because I’m working on incinerator for my thief. Will try in pvp first though.

So you want every class to have swiftness? For every build as well. Well then what is the point of swiftness in the first place? Why not just get rid of all the movement speed signets and have no one have swiftness? Mesmer is built for a lot of things, but running fast across long distances isn’t one of them. Learn to use warhorn + blink or runes if it bothers you that much.

Should everyone get a blink too? Maybe access to stealth? Cause every class should have stealth, even ooc blink and stealths would be fine for my warrior.

Iruwen.3164:

Wonderer.1790:

So… Mesmer’s use the extra utility slot for combat advantages and the rune slots for movement. But.. But! other classes have to use the utility slot for movement giving up combat advantages. Out logic’d?

So… other classes can decide to either use runes or a utility slot. Mesmer can’t. Better luck next time with your “logic”.
Plus it’s a matter of seconds to switch utilities, while changing runes or armor is extremely tedious.

Funny thing is, they wanted to give us more reliable swiftness. What they gave us is 1 out of 8 random boons every ten seconds. Totally reliable of course. I usually get zero swiftness when I need it and at other times four times in a row when I’m not moving at all. Also totally useful to permanently receive combat boons when ooc. They should change the signet so it only applies Aegis and Swiftness when out of combat, that would make it at least 50% swiftness uptime so you can still decide to make it 100% with the focus.

Um, excuse me. No one is forcing you to slot centaur runes in your mesmer. It’s your decision if you want that movement speed. This argument makes no sense. I personally wouldn’t even use centaur runes on my mesmer. It’s like you feel entitled to get movement speed just because other classes have it. Sorry but there’s something called class diversity.

Garr.1823:

Wonderer.1790:

Garr.1823:

Serhend.6382:

Use 7/6 centaur runes, incl aqua breather.

FAIL

All other classes do not need to loose rune slots on a run speed crap. They already have run speed, so they use runes to give them combat advantages.

So, in fact – run speed is still a mesmer problem. May be not the main one, but still actual.

So… Mesmer’s use the extra utility slot for combat advantages and the rune slots for movement. But.. But! other classes have to use the utility slot for movement giving up combat advantages. Out logic’d?

All classes use utility slots for combat. Or for w/e they want. But only mesmers need to use runes for run speed.
I have thief – and they have no problems cause of signet/passives that give swiftness/N5 bow skill/heart seeker.
Ranger is the fastest class, warriors have no problems, ele too…

Got it? Or too hard for u?

Are you serious. Rofl. Okay let’s see. If mesmer’s get movement speed signet they instantly go to #1 on all tpvp tier lists because movement speed is the only thing keeping the OP phantasm build from being effective in tpvp.

Next. Mesmer will be even more whined about in WvW roaming if this happens. I don’t even need to explain. Thanks! I want my Mesmer less whined about not more. I’m sure you want that.

Lastly Mesmer’s have the best incombat mobility, with the ability to consistently kite and stay out of harms way over all other classes while still dishing out very good damage. Giving them a signet is completely unnecessary. Should warriors get a blink then too?

I’m sorry but Mesmer’s already are the best all around class imo and have the best weapon set build diversity of any class. They don’t need a movement signet. It will only make people hate on Mesmers more and induce nerfs in other areas.

Did you catch that? Doubt it.

magic fly.2041:

cerberus.1937:

^ your one to talk comparing gw2 thief to wow thief this is gw2 not wow if I wanted wow thief id play wow get over yourself.

If we forget about old games, we will repeat mistakes in new games. That is why the comparison was made. I haven’t played wow but from what i can tell, wow thieves had similar problems that gw2 thieves are having now, and just about every thief style character in any mmo I’ve played had the same problem.

Should developers ignore those problems, and the solutions used just because they are different games? Should developers repeat history just because those were “other” games?

cerberus.1937:

Also if you had listen also explained meaning op. If you still don’t understand do you think boon hate means people that hate boons….

What other way is there to interpret the words “thief hate”?

/sarcasm
“Grandmaster trait: Thief Hate: deal 3% more damage for each thief in the area.”
/sarcasm

More than all that, there is no need for personal attacks against the posters here when you asked for them to answer a question and they spent the time explaining it.

You asked for an answer, but acted rude when some nice posts were given explaining why thieves are hated. That is the reason this thread has been set aflame. You torched it.

You may be right, but regardless, the play style of stealthy assassin characters fits a niche of a large group of players. Changing it for sake of a much smaller group of players who complain about the stealth class in every mmo is probably not beneficially to the developers lest they lose the niche of people who love assassin classes.

Garr.1823:

Serhend.6382:

Use 7/6 centaur runes, incl aqua breather.

FAIL

All other classes do not need to loose rune slots on a run speed crap. They already have run speed, so they use runes to give them combat advantages.

So, in fact – run speed is still a mesmer problem. May be not the main one, but still actual.

So… Mesmer’s use the extra utility slot for combat advantages and the rune slots for movement. But.. But! other classes have to use the utility slot for movement giving up combat advantages. Out logic’d?

This is like the biggest, learn to deal with how they balance the game issue, ever.

This is such a L2P issue it hurts.

Stealth is fine. People hate on stealth in every game. The OP is no different.

shhh… Don’t let them know they’re doing it wrong.

Yep It’d be awesome if they fixed it, but I’m not really complaining. Just because people dislike thief mobility already, doesn’t mean bugs shouldn’t be fixed.

My Mesmer almost 80. Time to face roll in wvw!

D/P is currently the strongest set. I’ll use it until they nerf it. Sorry but I prefer to play the strongest set available. I can’t see them nerfing it to D/D levels of uselessness though. It just has the abilities that create the perfect synergy together. D/P is what all thief weapon sets should strive for, not hated on because the majority use it.

Both

15charracters

Disturbing yes, but maybe better sounding than ‘The Phatter’ build.

Its a good weapon to use while zerging I find. Just stay in the back and deal maximum damage to the enemies at the front.

Ralathar.7236:

Atherakhia.4086:

Ralathar.7236:

People that say thieves are useless in the current meta of WvW out themselves as terrible WvW players. Thieves are likely the single most influential class in WvW because thieves and thieves alone can shut down supply in a map with little to no risk.

Maybe 12 thieves is enough to completely control supply in an entire map. You pair up into teams of 2-3 and each take a camp. A good thief can easily solo a camp but 2 makes it a lot faster with more room for error and better chances for escape if things go south.

You then go out of the camp and keep an eye on it from a good position, kill groups attempting to retake comprised of up to 4-6 members. Maybe even upgrade camps. If more than you can handle you let them take and kill any yaks leaving and retake.

Without supply the enemy cannot attack effectively. Without supply all towers and keeps will fall eventually. 100 supply pillaged occasionally from camps is not enough and quick thinking thieves can zero supply right before enemies arrive with an upgrade, then LOL away.

No other class can pull this off near as well as thief. Not even close. But this style of player is generally boring so most people just end up killing randoms is high reward little risk situations all day long.

That’s not true at all. Rangers and Mesmers have absolutely no trouble taking camps single handedly. They also aren’t useless in any aspect of WvW or sPvP as they make excellent roamers and zergers.

Scouting also isn’t something the thief class excells in alone as Rangers are just as quick running around the map thanks to the insanely short cooldown on swoop. They also escape exceptionally well when attacked. And they have a real bunker spec.

Thieves have better in combat mobility, are better able to handle CC, have stealth, have better single target spike damage, and are more escapeable. The ranger is also highly vulnerable to being zerged down while the thief is not.

Ranger is a good and capable class, but when it comes to roaming and supply control thief is safer and more effective. Having a pair just maximizes their ability to kill dolyaks and camps quickly, minimizing the chance of them being ambushed during the only time they are the least bit vulnerable.

There is no need to be super bunker if you don’t take damage and don’t get caught. Likewise needing to run to survive is also interfering with your job and a non-thief will get chased quite a long way by your average players even if you escape. A thief can set up an quick and easy stealth “give em the slip” moment.

Though honestly thieves DO have bunker builds. They just don’t use them because stealth is so good atm in WvW they literally have no need for them.

Sorry but bunker thieves are useless. Where as Ele’s and Guardians get an ample supply of boons, thieves get none. A thief, which has already bad stats, no boons, medium armor, and requires a good amount of prec, crit damage, and power to do auto attack damage simply cannot compete. And if you mention evades, well every evade used is less time in your enemies face being a threat. Going bunker makes thieves into a more useless Warrior. It doesn’t effectively use stealth which is basically a class mechanic and lacks damage unlike other classes. Thief damage with a bunker build is horrid and here’s why. Thief damage comes from back-stabs coming OUT of stealth. Going bunker and using less stealth only reduces thief damage even more. Other classes simply will heal up faster than damage dealt while thieves are brought down almost as quickly.

Basically the survival builds for thief SHOULD rely on stealth because our traits and class make stealth out to be useful and more powerful. You’ve completely missed the point of the class.

Please inform me on how Bunker thieves are actually useful in any facet of this game in comparison to other bunker builds from other classes. I’d really like to know.

As for escaping fights, mesmer can reset fights just as easily and have more stunbreakers to do so. Its also much easier to 1vX and 1v1 on a mesmer if you’re capable. And as for scouting and dolyak control. Yes a pair of thieves are good at taking them, but they are just as easily protected by other classes from thieves, people just don’t like to follow dolyaks around. If this is the biggest complaint for thieves in wvw roaming I don’t see a problem.

Excalibur.9748:

Yes, there are things a single person can do.

Thief isn’t op though. Really it’s UP in PvE and that’s easily half the game. The only thing it’s good at is roaming and I mean, a class has to be good at at least 1 thing….

This. Take away the one thing the thief is good at (which can be done almost as well by other classes like Mesmer) and you have a relatively useless class in all parts of the game. I believe A-net did this intentionally. They realized people who played thieves did so for the WvW and PvP aspects of the game less than the PvE parts, thereby giving thieves a play style more suited to player engagements.

I picked thief because I like the fluid gameplay and I like to solo often. Soloing in Pvp and Wvw is important to me as well. I like to think speed and mobility is king.

Numot.3965:

Initiative needs to change. I don’t know to what, but thief weapon skills need cool-downs like other professions. Until they have them, strong skills will always be too strong. Since they can be used repetitively without any drawbacks (i.e. dodge 2 heartseekers player eats 3 more anyway/ old school pistol whip meta were not having invulnerability meant you probably lost the encounter.) and other skills will be too weak (and you can’t buff them cause then it causes problems). Giving them cool-downs would let them keep strong skills, open up the ability to have skills buffed, without making then open to the abuse that some skills have had in the past and some have today. Honestly things like black-powder> heart-seeker for stealth would not be nearly as annoying as it is if only was happening ever 15-20s rather than all the time.

We’ve had a whole year of the profession just being gimmick after gimmick. Backstab ->heartseeker ->cloak and dagger silliness -> hasted pistolwhip -> tactical strike -> caltrops + deathblossom -> mug burst -> now flanking/larcenous strike & dagger pistol builds that stealth and reset the fight often. None of these would be an issue if the skills involved had cool downs.

I don’t agree with thieves being the best spike damage. That fits warriors way more (I mean that’s their thing, damage with a side of damage, right?). When I think of a thief I think of disruption and annoyance. Someone causing trouble all the time. Maybe I’ve just spent too much time in the inner city and rough neighborhoods.

Sorry but this would make thieves the most useless class in the game by far. I’m sorry you think the thief class abilities are gimmicky but honestly you just sound like you dislike fighting against the class. Thief is far from OP. Also no drawbacks? Are you aware that when thieves use up their initiative they can’t use any abilities. Its as though all their abilities are on cool down. That is the drawback. You basically just listed the entire class and all its abilities as being unfair. You realize A-net will never change whole class mechanics like initiative or stealth or they risk entire player-bases leaving.

Black powder on a 15-20 second cooldown? With all weapon abilities on cooldown? Sorry but this is just bad. They would have to buff all of the thief’s stats and increase damage on all abilities and give thieves better utilities. Basically this goes contrary to what you just wanted, and it just makes thieves even more into Warriors, further dumbing this game down.

Posts like this will only bring more trolls/players to the forums whining unfortunately.

SoLeciTO.3490:

LOL . . . I don’t play glass canon.

We are good on roaming . . . actually the best profession.

SO?

Mesmer is good for everything, every single way to play this game.

Roaming
Dungeons,
Puzzles,
PVE,
WvW Zerks,
SPVP,
PVP

You all cry like babies just because a thief kill you in 1v1? Come one I’m not crying because no one likes thieves on CoF parties.

And yes a warrior can 1 shot kill you only if you are full glass canon, but it takes more than 10k when u r mixed zerk and valk with full SA.

All of your previuos examples with Mesmer, engineer, ele are the same as mine . . . everything in this game is circumstantial . . . . or not?

Stop complaining like a baby and know your role in the game, every class can kill any class.

Basically this.

Perma-stealth isn’t OP it’s just frustrating to play against, but it is beatable. Countering it? Try still attacking when a thief enters stealth/pushing them out of shadow refuge. Thieves aren’t invincible in stealth contrary to noobular belief.

Here’s my current thief look.

EDIT: Almost forgot the weapon set I use most. D/P.

Well this is different. People just like to say thieves are OP when in reality they just don’t like fighting against the class. Respect to you for realizing what thieves are capable of and countering appropriately.

Another one of these haha. Every one of these threads is just complaining. I’m sorry but if you want to remove thief burst and stealth then increase thief stats, give us boons/stability/buffs/a way to survive fights (congratulations we’re warriors now). You said it yourself, you constantly get thieves to 10-20% health. If you remove their escape abilities and healing then they are just free kills. Basically a squishy warrior. If you took the time to look around you’d see every class has a near permanent survival build or some kind of damage build. Thieves are no different, you either go sustain or burst. When it comes down to it your post makes you sound like you just don’t like fighting thieves and their mechanics, not that they are actually overpowered. If that’s the case, who cares, A-net won’t change the basics mechanics for classes because of multiple reasons.

As a side note any group of 4-5 players dying to 1 thief in the current meta in WvW are just not good players.

Utmost respect Osicat.

S/D is fine. Its only really useful vs Guardians and Elementalists. D/P is far superior vs any other classes. If S/D were nerfed and with the Mug nerf in the past, thieves would have 0 way to bring down Bunker’s fast enough. A-net wanted boon hate, and we got it.

You can’t counter it. Its the nature of the class. A good player will be able to escape and reset, just as a good guardian should never die to a thief and a good mesmer should win most duels. This kind of complaining can be said for any class, well except warrior haha. I’ve seen plenty of players from all classes escape situations and run from my thief. Being able to reset a fight makes up for a thief’s bad stats and otherwise horrible utilities. If you were take away this escape ability, any average player would just turn around and get one good stun/burst and insta-kill a thief.

Point being thieves need this escape ability and if they were to take it away, I’d expect buffs to stats and better utilities/more useful class ability.

All straight opinion.

People will complain about any kind of stealth mechanic in any game. The thief/rogue/assassin archetype was/is/and always will be, the most hated because it strives on surprise attacks and capitalizes highly on mistakes made. New/Bad players don’t know how to or don’t want to deal with this kind of gameplay. Look at WoW (rogue) League (shaco – nerfed) Dota (riki – most complained about by new players) etc. and they don’t want to deal with it here. Anyone saying oh, GW2 ruins it by giving thieves on demand stealth, is just trying to justify thief hate. Thief classes were hated long before and will be long after. In addition every class in this MMO is more mobile and dynamic, not just thieves. Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble, but any MMO wanting to succeed needs this faster game play style and more active combakittens just the evolution of the genre. Stop with the nostalgia over past games, and deal with it. If anything I’d love to see warriors and a few other classes buffed in mobility to create a higher skill-cap.

Yes some things ‘could’ be toned down like perma-stealth, but the same people wanting those nerfs fail to acknowledge that thieves’ stats should be buffed to compensate. This is where a lot of hate comes from. Mindless nerfs from players who play other classes (I’ve mostly seen rangers and mesmers getting angry and PvE players who jump in WvW and expect to run happily with a zerg or get map comp) with no constructive buffs in return. Currently thieves need the stealth to offset their bad stats. In the end, players that only use other classes and post about nerfs just want thieves to be free kills for them. Sorry, but A-net won’t get rid of a class mechanic that basically makes a thief, a thief, and not a skinny warrior.

Basically there will always be haters and you shouldn’t care less. I like to play classes that generally excel at mobility, single target damage, and fast fluid game play. Thief has all of these traits, and I’ll continue to use or as lamers think, ‘abuse’ the thief class when in reality I’m competing and playing within the boundaries of the current game and patch.

So in short:
Thief:
high level Dungeons/PvE – worthless
high level PvP – very below average
WvW – Gods of roaming (why all the people whine)

Now just imagine if thieves actually excelled in all these categories like guardians and a lesser extent ele’s currently do. It would be a kittenfest.

oZii.2864:

Wonderer.1790:

So what your saying is leave phantasm as the basically win all 1v1’s build and while also leaving it as a horrible group play build in zerging, and pvp gameplay. K, I really don’t care that much anyways. I don’t even duel behind the windmill thing haha.

Also, Yes I realize other Mesmer builds use phantasms and nerfing them would effect those builds. But building around phantasms SHOULD be an option that is viable in more than just 1v1’s. You yourself even mentioned those thief threads about stealth. I wouldn’t mind if stealth was toned down as well, and I play a thief. It would incur more play around D/D and other builds rather than just D/P in WvW. If this kind of balancing was done around all classes the game would become not just more diverse, but more balanced as well..

But I can see your stuck and will probably say, A net just doesn’t balance that way blah blah. Well they should, and it would create a more diverse build perspective with increased balance across every class. You might actually see builds built around phantasms in group play and in dueling, not just only in 1v1’s as it is at the moment.

I never said Phantasm build isn’t balanced maybe if you looked at the phantasm themselves and not the build then you to can see that phantasms are balanced. Some of them need a buff like iMage and Disenchanter.

Look at the mesmer builds that are out there including shatter spec. Do those builds not summon phantasms? Even glamour spec summoned a phantasm occasionally even if they want to shatter it after it does its attack.

Alot of builds in this game take an aspect of a class and basically build around it. I am not going to think about building around stability boon on my mesmer or thief since they have access to that with just 1 ability. I can with my warrior its like elementalist build around boons, guardians and mesmers can a thief would have a hard time building around boons. I havent seen many 2 water, 2 monk, 2 major water thieves running around.

You can build around certain unique parts of your class to make good builds. Phantasm is built around phantasms, Shatter builds around f1-f4. Thieves can build around stealth, warriors can build around their burst or adrenaline mechanic or might boon.

So Phantasms are balanced they just happen to be good 1v1 dueling if you build around them. In essence that is a by product of the build. P/D condition thief is good 1v1 and dueling it needs to be nerfed 1v1 by your logic because bleed stacking is OP so we need to nerf runes.

You fail to see the problem. A P/D condition thief cannot kill certain builds. Phantasm builds only lose to other phantasm builds or shatter Mesmers, that’s about it. Yet people continue to play both builds. Yes I can see you play a shatter Mesmer, and yes they are strong, but they are balanced. Builds based around phantasm’s alone are not. May I repeat they are not OP in all aspects of the game, just 1v1’s, but they are certainly not BALANCED for all aspects. Ask yourself, what about the people who actually want a viable phantasm build that isn’t just known for its 1v1 face-roll and that’s it?

And By your logic thieves based around perma-stealth should not even be changed. Even though I use a perma-stealthing thief as well (like 90% of thieves in WvW now) I tend to agree they are over the top roamers and annoying to play against. But I still play it because it is a strong build. These are all anti-fun mechanics built into certain parts of the game that people have a right to try and change.

Anyways, you obviously have ulterior motives in that you think changes to the build will effect the entire class (probably your shatter build), when you fail to see it isn’t always the case. For example back when they nerfed thief stealth to 4 seconds reveal, it didn’t affect perma-stealthing at all, and D/P only became more played. Did changing stealth in this scenario affect other builds that the thief had? Well it didn’t affect D/P. Will changing around phantasms in some way affect other Mesmer builds? Not necessarily.

oZii.2864:

Wonderer.1790:

I don’t understand why you would be against this. Phantasm Mesmer should obviously be nerfed in 1v1 capability but buffed for group play. Why would anyone even debate otherwise? The same people crying at the ones who are saying “nerf phantasm Mesmer whilst increasing viability in group play” can only be abusing the build in 1v1’s or roaming/duels in the first place. Otherwise why would you even care if they nerfed phantasm for 1v1’s when they themselves are saying the game isn’t built around 1v1’s.

Honestly don’t care though kittenter is still the better spec. Its the last survivable burst build in the game in my opinion.

Have you ever heard something balanced around 1v1 in this game? If so please I would like to know. Things are done around group play not around behind the windmill dueling.

Seriously if 1v1 nerfing is what your asking for then every bunker build should be nerfed as they are usually the ones that show up at duels anyway. You think the RTL change to ele was made because of 1v1?

Nerfing in 1v1 setting rolf what is that? You have to realize that in essence 1v1 does not exist in this game its something that people do. You ever seen a nerf or buff done to something in this game revolving around Role Playing?

Phantasms are apart of the Mesmer mechanic (see thief nerf stealth threads) even shatter builds usually pop duelist and let him unload before shattering him.

Lol nerf something based around roaming, nerf everything with mobility then lol.

So what your saying is leave phantasm as the basically win all 1v1’s build and while also leaving it as a horrible group play build in zerging, and pvp gameplay. K, I really don’t care that much anyways. I don’t even duel behind the windmill thing haha.

Also, Yes I realize other Mesmer builds use phantasms and nerfing them would effect those builds. But building around phantasms SHOULD be an option that is viable in more than just 1v1’s. You yourself even mentioned those thief threads about stealth. I wouldn’t mind if stealth was toned down as well, and I play a thief. It would incur more play around D/D and other builds rather than just D/P in WvW. If this kind of balancing was done around all classes the game would become not just more diverse, but more balanced as well..

But I can see your stuck and will probably say, A net just doesn’t balance that way blah blah. Well they should, and it would create a more diverse build perspective with increased balance across every class. You might actually see builds built around phantasms in group play and in dueling, not just only in 1v1’s as it is at the moment.

Sadly, Bunker classes are the state of the game. A net themselves has said they wanted to negate burst. I’m sorry, the boon stealing is a good step, but still only a small step in negating a bunker’s capabilities. Lets look at the classes where the top builds are bunkers. Elementalist, Guardian, Ranger. Is it a coincidence that the top tier classes at the moment are Elementalist, Guardian, Ranger as well? Sure you can burst them down as other classes, and boon steal, but bunker’s will always have more of a place on the team. If on the same level of skill, defensive play allows you to make more mistakes. I have a feeling that only at the very top levels of play, where mistakes are rarely made on all classes, is this defense for mistakes taken away from them.

I don’t understand why you would be against this. Phantasm Mesmer should obviously be nerfed in 1v1 capability but buffed for group play. Why would anyone even debate otherwise? The same people crying at the ones who are saying “nerf phantasm Mesmer whilst increasing viability in group play” can only be abusing the build in 1v1’s or roaming/duels in the first place. Otherwise why would you even care if they nerfed phantasm for 1v1’s when they themselves are saying the game isn’t built around 1v1’s.

Honestly don’t care though kittenter is still the better spec. Its the last survivable burst build in the game in my opinion.

Truga.5897:

DanyK.3842:

I’ll be honest: thief only has stealth in combat. It is not to help them kill you. It’s so they can run away. If anything, thieves are only good at running away.
Necros can kill thieves easily with AoE conditions. Guardians can kill them with retaliation and high defense. Rangers shouldn’t exist in WvW but if you must, I challange any thief to kill my sPvP ranger. Warriors are supposed to be the least effective against thieves yet I never lost a fight against one on mine. Engis can murder thieves even when upscaled due to tons of blocks and retaliation. My guildie solod 2 lvl80 thieves on his lvl60 engi. Eles should be able to kill thieves too. Maybe not staff eles, but then again why run solo as a staff ele? Mesmers are practically like thieves only higher health pool and illusions. I played all 8 classes doing PvP only and all I can say is the problem with thieves is that they are easy to play for beginners and hard to counter as a beginner.

Thieves need a buff. More survivability, less stealth, wtf is that boon stealing meta?

You talk as if thieves had no survivability. They have plenty, they just choose to use berserker gear, because thanks to stealth, they can…

If they don’t then against a bunker class thieves would have zero chance of winning and would lack the damage to even take one down. At the moment its still very hard for a thief in all berserker to kill one as is before they heal up. Besides any thief wearing full berserk is an easy kill. Good ones use Valk/Knights for 1v1’s.

AlBundy.7851:

I don’t get angry when I get ganked or lose a duel. I know from reading the thief forums that is how the game is intended to be played and the developers designed it that way.

Nah man you got it wrong. They balanced them to lose all duels and be the worst class in the game. Look at any other classes and you’ll see.

All I see are Guardian, Mesmer, and Thief roamers.

AlBundy just a angry warrior player that got ganked and/or lost too many a duel.

Don’t really care what nerfs they have for thief. I’ll adapt.

First off anyone not zerging that is looking for kills or duels is either a Thief or a Mesmer both being easy to play in this regard. My opinion in from a WvW and PvP point of view.

I can’t see how people on the Mesmer forum defend Mesmer for being harder to play than other classes. I’ve played it for a while now and in pvp as well, and Mesmer requires much less thinking play than I believed from the forums. You just sit back and range and when appropriate dive in for a frenzy dps burst. Sure there are other builds, but that’s exactly it. Mesmer has so many builds that work differently and work well, that the enemy has no idea whats coming. Necro, Engi, War, and Ele all take more awareness and any misuse of their skills can mean death. I’ll admit it, this easy play and ability to still perform very well, has attracted me to the class and has made me want to build one for WvW roaming. The ability to keep pressure up while using a Mesmer is basically sit back, range attack and spam out illusions, just kiting until the enemy gets low then, BOOM burst and dead. Crazy that the best 1v1 class in the game allows you to sit back and generally just watch as you wreck someone, its a great feeling. This feeling contradicts a thief’s which is to keep being in someone’s face as you wreck them. Both great and both very strong in WvW, but saying Mesmer is more difficult to play than other classes is outright false it shows a lack of understanding for other classes.

First off, this is hilarious. Forum goers will whine about thieves until they are completely removed from the game or stealth is nerfed so much that they become free kills. Let me remind you that thieves have been nerfed since this game came out every month and yet people still complain as much as before.

Contrary to popular belief thieves are not the greatest at 1v1’s, nor are they the great glass cannon, sneak attack killers they once were because of the mug nerf. (The only true glass cannon builds that can survive/dps and that work in 1v1 now are Mesmer shatter builds.) Have some awareness. OH and carry a stunbreak, or grab some toughness. If you don’t have either of those your begging thieves to down you.

Anyone dying constantly to thieves are honestly probably just running away trying to form up with a zerg or something. Have some balls and turn around and fight one with whatever strong build your class currently has. OH but blah blah I’m not built for 1v1!! Well if that’s the case then why are you not with your zerg in the first place?

By the way the king of 1v1 in the dueling cirlce belongs to the Mesmer, go look for yourselves in guilds in the right places and you’ll know this to be true. Any decent shatter or phantasm mesmer will destroy any thief build and most builds for that matter. Necro summon builds, BM/Trap Ranger, Scepter Bunker Guard, all these builds easily either beat thieves’ best 1v1 build (D/P) or force thieves to run away in duels. Right now on average all thieves can do in WvW is pick off the bads, draw even in fights vs good players, and perma-stealth around accomplishing nothing. Nerfing them anymore because of ‘Oh i’m underleveled and got ganked trying to herd up with the group’ types of reasons are idiotic and will only further the thief into an even more useless class. If you have problems understanding how to effectly 1v1 a thief or any class for that matter, then pvp for a month or so.

The point of WvW is to help your server. Thieves can do this by roaming and ganking 1v1 catching people off guard. Its the nature of the class. If your wandering around by yourself without the proper 1v1 build for your class then you deserve death. The purpose of WvW is to fight other players so how is this an argument? Either stay with your zerg or build for 1v1? If a thief manages to pick you off before making it to your zerg he either did his job correctly, you didn’t build for a 1v1, or you should move to the zerg with another player.

In conclusion if your calling for nerfs in the sustainability and survivability of stealth built thieves, then thieves must get their damage back to counter all of the bunker classes out there that can still 3-5 shot thieves back. If this happens people will just complain about thief damage again. What people fail to understand is thieves are right now on the cusp of being one of the most worthless classes in fights, with only 1 viable build that keeps them alive vs good players. Also, I know many people playing that will move to mesmer builds for dueling and ganking if thief nerfs continue. So prepare for the all mighty herds of dueling mesmers running around, not that doesn’t already happen.

try using a dagger/pistol set. Its full of blinds making PvE 1v1’s a breeze.

People like heavy armor classes in all mmo’s. Its not surprise. I honestly see as many warriors in WvW though.

I use 10-30-30-0-0 right now. I’m using full valk armor (6 ruby orb) with berserker trinkets and berserker weapons. I’ve also been running withdraw and assassins signet. Its a really good dueling build in wvw and pvp, but in pvp I just use full divinity runes. I might take the 10 from mug however and move it to acrobatics though. I’m not sure yet.

Most people have caught on and are using the D/P + S/D build for dueling. D/P is usually considered superior because it brings so much utility over D/D while still maintaining a good amount of dps. I use D/P + Shortbow though.

Humorless.1573:

Daendur.2357:

Frenk.5917:

Humorless.1573:

They can’t do kitten about it without destroying the thief class at this point, so nothing will happen.

Pretty much this. The only thing that they could do to “nerf” d/p thieves is to put revelead when popping out of stealth even when you don’t attack. But this would affect more other builds (d/d, s/d) than d/p.

Not true. a d/p thief will not come out of stealth while using his stupid annoying combo.
they could remove the leap finisher of heartseeker and the class will not be destroyed.

If Heartseeker isn’t a leap finisher you destroy the d/p set instantly, it’s the only use the set has. It has no other way to get stealth often so you leave the thief with one good damage set… d/d. Which is a set with 3 useful slots… #1 for auto-attack/backstab, #2 which you just nerfed and #5 to go into stealth.

IE d/d will be ridiculously boring and people will all switch to s/d. Meaning thieves will only kill the mentally challenged and be nothing but boon strippers and you’re still too bad to kill them, because s/d is arguably more annoying than d/p.

Go get educated. You’re clueless.

This. Yes d/p could be considered strong (not overly strong), but that doesn’t mean completely destroy the weapon spec’s entire mechanic. OP is absurd.

Travlane.5948:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Wonderer.1790:

Meh, everyone in this thread that’s crying is a burst player, everyone else counter crying is sword dagger or condition. Looks like S/D will be the most played build coming up.

D/P and S/P hybrid survive/burst here, I’m not crying though
Retraining S/D though right now, I wanna test that flanking strike when the buff comes.

Also another option for counter criers: Ppl who don’t even use mug at all?

Its So Overpowered only like 15-20% of theives actually use it. :P

Think about that for a second. There are like 5 or 6 weapon builds. I’d say that S/D is currently possibly 3rd or 4th most used behind P/D D/D and D/P (d/p which is used in conjunction a lot of the time) and is growing in users even now. With the mug changes I’d see that growth rise even farther as survivability goes up. S/D, D/P will soon rule the land of dueling as there will be no reason to play D/D anymore, and the other builds are left far in the dust. The only other option for 1v1 duels besides S/D, D/P is condition.

So prepare for more S/D users come next patch. Just read through the forums as people change builds, heck I might be changing from D/P short-bow to an S/D variant as well.

Meh, everyone in this thread that’s crying is a burst player, everyone else counter crying is sword dagger or condition. Looks like S/D will be the most played build coming up.

But he’s not a troll. Its actually much worse. He has a 40 minute video of him actually believing what he’s saying in game. Just Youtube his username and you’ll see.

Nice changes, Good job A-Net. Though they won’t affect my D/P thief. Though I’m still glad to see D/D thief viability back up. Also curious about the sword boon stripping and the warrior buffs. Everything else is mehh for me.